Judgment's new beam changes are bad and unnecessary
So after watching the new dev stream and witnessing the changes made to Judgment I just have to ask: Why? Judgment is already a hard killer to play so why make her harder? The beam changes make going for long range shots as judgment harder and it just doesnt feel necessary. This reminds me a lot of the recent nerfs to Jason's power like sauna rock being nerfed, no longer detecting survivors hiding in lockers and making his movement speed while holding spike harder. Like these changes for both killers I mentioned arent Skull Merchant levels of bad (Where the killer completely died), but it just feels unnecessary and unjustified as avoiding the beam at long range was already easy for survivor. Heresy's mark basekit is good though, I just think you should have reworked the addon.
Comments
Are you sure?
I recall jason still seeing players in lockers as a red mist
No they patched that as a bugfix (Even though its obviously a nerf)
Feels bad then, its a nerf
And the worst part is that they did the same thing with Nurse's calling and they are reverting it back to what it used to be pre nerf
So are these changes will be applied when comes out the next chapter ?
This is quite big nerf on Jason
If you mean the nurse's calling change, then yes
If you meant the jason locker change it went live weeks ago
I’m honestly not seeing how any of these changes make Judgment “harder” to play. None of this touched the actual aiming or pathing of Divine Light…it’s mostly QoL and information for both sides.
The only thing that arguably makes long‑range plays trickier is the beam being revealed from farther away, but survivors could already dodge it at range if they were paying attention, and in exchange you now get Killer Instinct for downs and near‑misses which massively helps tracking and follow‑up pressure. Fair trade if you ask me.
Also the Jason comparison feels a bit dramatic here..His nerfs removed specific, very strong interactions, whereas this is more like BHVR tightening the info loop around a killer that’s already pretty niche and map‑dependent. If anything, Judgment needed help with consistency and feedback.
The beam being more visible and giving a UI indication just gives way too many indications for the survivor, like ray of retribution already gave enough indication to avoid getting sniped this just feels completely overkill. And I would argue that Judgment's nerfs are worse than Jason's, because while the nerfs made him feel a bit worse to play he is still a strong killer and didn't make him that harder, but with Judgment one of the main appeals of the killer was the ability to snipe and making that even more difficult just makes no sense.
So are they not reworking the add on? Cuz I don't know why you would ever not use the toggle over the add on if so.
Kinda ambivalent to the beam changes. Use of misdirection and hiding it behind buildings is still the play so nothing really changed there. This change only punishes people who fire in a straight line.
Yeah not reworking the addon is certainly a choice I will say. but the beam changes is like still a why since I feel its completely pointless and unnecessary
The survivors in lockers are still visible and get killer instinct, they just don't scream. That's because usually lockers suppress all screams, and it was considered a bug because of this.
Hopefully it will help with situations like this - there is only 0.6 seconds between any audio or visual indication and the beam hitting survivors:
https://youtu.be/HppVjahqC0cYou’re the killer. You control the beam of light. You control how, when and where it’s fired.
I still don’t see how this makes her “harder,” just more honest. Survivors already had a ton of counterplay at range – if you’re aiming long‑distance beams you’re committing to a prediction shot on someone who can juke or LOS break. Making the beam more visible and adding a UI cue doesn’t change the fact that you, as Judgment, still decide where and when to fire; it just means survivors actually get clear feedback instead of getting deleted by something they could barely read.
Meanwhile you’re getting Killer Instinct on downs and near‑misses, which is huge for tracking and follow‑up pressure in chase. That’s a real buff to consistency, especially when people try to play super safe around corners and walls. Jason lost specific power interactions outright, but Judgment is still doing the exact same thing she was doing before, just with clearer info on both sides.
If the “main appeal” of a killer is that the other side can’t tell what’s happening, that’s not really healthy design.
@cogsturning
True
Yeah I agree. I recall when we were testing if you were in a building, near a wall, the beam just hit you with basically no warning. Killers shouldn't just be able to drop incounterable bombs by spamming beams at gens.
I agree, this change from the PTB with the overlay is not a good idea. I would rather see survivors not be affected by the beam if they work on hex-totems than this.
After 2-3 days on PTB, people already slowly started to learn when to anticipate and dodge Judgement snipes more efficiently.
I fear that overlay will effectively neuter ranged snipes, which is the most intriguing part of her: her being a reverse artist. Being good at sniping, and much worse in loops.
There was always a warning on PTB. When she charges her beam you have an auditory warning, and when she let go you see it, as well as seeing the targeting marker when there is no wall in between. Part of the fun with her was anticipating when she will try to snipe you.
kind of crazy that this has downvotes… people will see "its bad game design to have people getting injured with almost no warning from almost anywhere on the map" and dislike it because in their mind it's a great idea…
I mean that is plenty of time to dodge the beam in this clip. The moment you see that white aura you should already be moving away from the gen. Nerfing the snipe capabilities (which were already weak) was not the play.
If they made compensatory changes to mid/close range attacks, i wouldn't complain. But considering how hard Judgment will be to play against good players and how hard the power is to master, Judgment will be the godly Hag of Pick rates.
Lets see how it plays on live.
How is this scenario a problem? Powers should be more strong in some situations and less strong in others. You got sniped? Okay, and? It's not like they'll be able to hit you with their power at a loop. It was fine enough at a distance, and weaker up close, now it's just weak since survivors get every notification in the world that it's coming.
Killer powers need less counter play, not more.
I have to agree with you there is enough time to react in that clip.
I versed alot on PTB and you just have to get used to it, other killers you can chill on gen, have a drink. this one you need to be on alert. had plenty of matches in ptb where the survivors where dodging these cross map hits no issues
you were able to see the giant white line before it hit you
In my humble opinion, the only change they didn't need to add was giving a survivor an actually indicator that you are going to be hit. That the killer is actually looking at you, aiming..I find that change really odd.
I'd be fine with the compromise of reverting the beam's earlier-to-see aura change while keeping the on-screen effect. That aura change, as it is, pretty much dumpsters long-range Judgement gameplay, which is incredibly disappointing to me personally.
As it is, making the aura visible earlier and also adding an on-screen effect is an overcorrection.
Bro did not realize chess Judge existed and it shows.
I honestly never would've known about the locker change to jason without this post lol.
As for the changes, the screen indicator when your are about to be hit "incase you weren't paying attention on a gen" was certainly unnecessary. Thats like giving people a warning indicator everytime the Artist's crows are coming.
You could have been ready to dodge by the virtue if it being the judgement. You even heard the beam charging before it came your way. It is just a 1000ms reaction test.
You could still dodge the attacks if you pay attention, you were able to see it coming with enough time to dodge, I have done this myself and it was very easy to do so.
I did not realize the reason BHVR gave for these nerfs was something basically to the effect of "strimmers would be talking to their chat and not have a chance to dodge the beam" and like are you serious right now?
This is a PvP video game, yes you should be forced to pay attention to the player trying to kill you. I don't think it's going to make Judgement unplayable although I do think these changes are unnecessary but this is way more alarming for the indicating BHVR's overall thought process. Like is BHVR really out here trying to make survivor as autopilot as possible for STREAMERS?! That's like 5-10% of the playerbase if I'm being generous and it's dictating balance for everyone. If streamers cannot dodge a beam because they are not paying attention that is what we like to call a "skill issue" which has a remedy of "getting good" and it should not be a burden placed on nonstreamer killer players that is ridiculous.
Cool, and that means you can never progress on anything ever because ruin + this means that you are constantly loosing 5% gen progress every time they attack whether they were aiming at you or not and totem progress is constantly reset. Wow such a fun and interactive game. Constantly loosing because you literally can't win.
it's funny how killers couldn't get actual gameplay benefit for not tunneling bc it would be "handholding", but they do this.
This is quite literally handholding for survivors bc now survivors do not need to have any sort of awareness as the game will just tell them danger is coming.
Then maybe, just maybe the issue is the hex build, and not the killers ability to snipe.
Hence the fix should be something targeting her ability to defend hexes, not devalue her ability altogether
If the killer tries to hit the people on gens then they are not using to chase people and get downs, judgement can only pressure one gen with a cooldown of 12? seconds (it's somewhere around that), the repairing is 1 charge per second so the 5-8% you lose each M2 you can repair back with more progress, like the judgement will use the M2 on different gens and the hexes so it's enough time to complete gens and cleanse the hex, so you can win.
If the judgement is not aiming at you then you can just continue doing the gen.
The cooldown is 6 seconds.
And the judgement wins if the game goes on for over an hour. You really don't understand why skull merchant got completely changed do you? It does not matter how unlikely it is. The simple fact is that Judgement could hold a game hostage for an hour easily and there was nothing survivors could do besides die or dc.
Oh yeah no, ultimately the main issue comes from the fact that some killers under no circumstances should have access to certain perks. But the devs want all killers to have access to all killer perks despite how terrible of an idea that is so we are left with the reality that Judgement needed to be changed.
You don't lose 5% gen progress for letting go on a gen with ruin. Are you talking about the minimum progress bar? That shows for the same value any time a gen starts regressing in order to prevent gen tapping, it doesn't show how much a gen has regressed.
Their consultancy group is full of popular streamers. How BHVR don't see the conflict of interest, I don't know.
The thing is not even streamers wanted this.
This specific change, maybe not. There's a streamer on their consultancy program who made a video a few years back saying he was against tighter matchmaking because it makes it harder to engage with his chat. He was talking from a killer perspective though, which I imagine makes the difference when it comes to which changes certain streamers like and dislike. On the flipside, I would imagine a streamer who mostly plays survivor would prefer tighter matchmaking because then they get better team mates. So perspective matters.
The guy tried to make a humorous comment, it clearly was not the justification for the change.
Boosting this. I'll say it again: this was the community-created killer and they destroyed her at the last second to handhold situationally-unaware survivors.
You couldn't make a DBD meme that ridiculous. What an insult.
@esarraf Chess Judgement is a totem problem, not a Judgement problem. Totem progress should decay gradually if you hop off, not all at once.
I agree, totems are in dire need of a nerf.
Then it's a false call as he can still hear people screaming in locker when jumpscaring.
If this nerf is allowed, then from now on, we’ll need visual highlights and alarm sounds for Trapper’s traps and Huntress’s axe—among other things—to warn inattentive Survivor players. Similarly, to warn inattentive Killer players, we should make Survivors who are preparing for a Sprint Burst glow, and display warning icons and play alarm sounds above the heads of Survivors while DS or OtR effects are active.
Im just imagining a system similar to how aircraft will scream stuff like "PULL UP, TERRAIN".
streamers get more accessibility than deaf people that's kinda interesting.
Guess deaf people vs Spirit just gotta stay struggling
Okay the nerf on.the UI element got reverted. This is great!