Maybe Rework Nurse?
Tbh, I've never had much against Nurse or Nurse Players in general if you're good with her, then good on you. The real problem is the absurdity of how fast she can just down everyone, ignoring almost all mechanics to the point where if you face at least a semi competent Nurse most likely you're dying swiftly.
I'm posting this because I know they're reworking maps to have alot more unsafe/mindgameable pallets, so how does change go well when you already have a killer that completely ignores said pallets and mechanics?
I understand SWF is a problem and this isn't a post to try to take out THE best killer in the game, but let's really just understand why she's THE best killer in the game and who the actual best Killer in the game is.
As I've stated before, Nurse is THE best killer in the game, but on what basis? Why is she the best?
It's because she's able to ignore mechanics specifically for Survivor defenses and can generally go to any area of the map almost instantaneously.
Windows and Vaults are there to help put distance between a killer and Survivor, yet she can just easily ignore it.
She can even go into buildings almost at the speed of light.
She's not balanced, tbh her current iteration isnt. And yes I know it seems she the Golden child response to SWF, but is it all really still needed with many changes and aura perks and map reworks?
The game isn't the same anymore compared to when it was first released. I say she needs a change.
Also, the actual best killer in this game is spirit. Because she actually allows Survivors their defenses and can still outplay them.
Why isn't anyone really talking about these things. I understand Nurse Mains will come and defend her, but I'm not attacking anyone just acknowledging that in all honesty....she may not be a healthy killer for the game.
Post your thoughts below and please remain respectful, thank you.
Comments
i also want to point out how nebulous the "stealth" point always is
there's never any specifics, no situational decision making or anything tangible, just "use stealth" followed by a list of perks you absolutely have to run in case you run into a nurse or else you deserve to lose or something
it is so, so stifling to a balance discussion to have people constantly contributing these hollow points and redirecting the dialogue from "how to counterplay a nurse" to "how to not deal with a nurse"
evidence? did you take the ohtofu video in the other thread as "evidence" too?
i didn't realize a youtube video was this infallible discussion point. i guess all the devs need to do is watch a few of those and we're set
At all, man. My playstyle is based around intercepting people, injuring and letting escape, very rarely I engage in chases around stuff (especially waist high) like a robot, because I already know what happens when a killer not named Sally or Rin does that, and because I find it incredibly dumb.
Besides, the only ones talking about nerfs are you guys, I didn't even mention nerfing anything about any role.
PS4 queues are good for me at least, back to normal. It actually takes longer to get a lobby as survivor, so I don't know where you're going with this.
People like you have always been asking for evidence that stealth works against her. What other evidence you want, if not a video proving exactly that?
If not for the instantly disconnecting chump playing Kate in that game, I'd say it would have been a 1k at the most. 3 guys did 5 gens with an experienced nurse breathing on their necks all the time.
Maybe more people should try that playstyle against her, I don't know.
Or maybe I'm wrong and running in circles is the most exciting thing in the world.
Regarding the videos, any videos. Yes of course, they can all be used to analyze and draw conclusions out of them, and hopefully they would all involve highly skilled players from both sides.
I actually don't know why don't all these guys playing as a job challenge each other, that way the devs would have a more solid ground from which they can make more accurate decisions regarding high level play.
just avoid the question and cherry pick what constitutes "evidence" and what doesn't, classic
i watched the video and saw an "experienced" nurse player using busted addons, losing people mid chase because his tracking was off, whiffing blinks (even messing up blinks while not in chase), spending extended periods of time looking for people in dead zones rather than patrolling gens, and getting punished for all of these mistakes
the title for this video should be "how to not play against immersed survivors 101" rather than "how to counter nurse 101". like i said in a previous post, this video is the outcome of him playing poorly, not the survivors playing especially well. and this isn't a dig against tru3, i actually do think he's a good killer player, but this points out a huge issue with how a lot of people on this forum digest information; watching this video uncritically and proclaiming it as evidence that stealth "works" but denouncing tofu's video as fallacious and cherry picked. the generators didn't even go quickly in this video (how could they? he was against 3 people), he just spent a lot of time floating around doing nothing. once again, nothing against tru3, but the fact that he propped this game up as an example of how to counterplay nurse instead of an example of him just playing badly kind of reinforces the notion that you guys should probably consume his content a little more critically
survivors cannot both stay constantly hidden and do generators. especially as a killer who can go from no terror radius to directly next to you in a second, there's really no excuse for doing this poorly, especially when you're running 3 tracking perks. patrol gens enough and you'll find people (who will proceed to go down in a matter of a few seconds), don't spend time looking for people who are actively hiding from you, and "stealth" turns into "pointless inaction" really quickly
not sure there's much to be gained from explaining this to somebody who thinks looping is devoid of skill but hiding in a corner is an act of gaming excellence but here we are
So that we have something to work with to compare to the current Nurse.
You say she has all of these problems. How do you fix them? If you or someone else can't think of anything then this discussion won't go anywhere. Note how 0 progress has been made in the entire rest of this thread.
Comparing the pro's and cons of implementing a specific change or set of changes is far more productive than something more vague.
For example:
Blink's no longer travel through stuff besides survivors
Nurse is now 110% and has 3 Blinks.
the discussion won't go anywhere due to the sheer number of people who are unable to process how conceptually absurd the nurse's presence is in a game like this
if we don't have that level of understanding across the board, a course of action for how to fix her will never be reached. if nothing else, this thread (and any other thread about nurse) is a commentary on how far people are willing to go to defend a clear problem with the game, regardless of what they are presented with
I literally answered the question, but it's ok, I'm cool with it. I never said that hiding is an amazing feat of excellence, but instead an effective way to play under certain circumstances. But, I don't even care any more, for real.
Tell you what, how about we proceed to ignore each other from now on, since you completely disregard what I have to say and I completely disregard whatever you say, too. No one is gaining anything from this kind of pointless mess. So, farewell.
how did i disregard what you said? all you said was "watch the video, stealth works", i did, and then i explained why it's a poor example of the point you were trying to make. like, in detail. i seriously do not understand how this disregards what you have to say. if i am misrepresenting you, then say so, but i don't think i have been
and no, as far as i read, you didn't answer the question. i asked you why tru3's video constitutes evidence but tofu's does not. both of them made youtube videos from a specific lens regarding the nurse, and both videos have had very different receptions from people on this forum, so why is his video being definitively praised by some people but tofu's is cherry picked and bias-ridden?
edit: apologies, i missed the post in which you did answer the question. the problem with your answer is that using both videos as "evidence" of the points they're trying to make doesn't work because both points are incompatible. tru3 is trying to show that the nurse has counterplay, whereas tofu is trying to show that she doesn't. if both videos are evidence and both are true then she both does and doesn't have counterplay, which is a paradox
i also want to point out how nebulous the "nerf nurse" point always is
there's never any specifics, just "nerf nurse" so she doesn't have to change the survivor's playstyle, just "nerf nurse" followed by a list of reasons of how she breaks the game because they absolutely have to run in the open with no care for the killer or they have no fun
it is so, so stifling to a balance discussion to have people constantly contributing the idea that the killer is not supposed to be strong, redirecting the dialogue from "how do we maintain a viable killer" to "how to make nurse into a loopable killer like all the rest"
it must be comforting, as somebody who only plays 3+ blink nurse every single game, to type this and feel like it's reasonable or accurate whatsoever
"killer isn't supposed to be strong" false equivalencies aside it is funny to me that this is the best someone who literally mains the strongest killer in her most broken possible setup can do. even tons of nurse mains agree that the stuff you run is nonsense, so where do you think you fit into this discussion?
anyway, if anyone wanted a prime example of somebody who is literally incapable of being self aware and considering how the only killer they play, with the addons they run, has no counterplay regardless of what they're presented with, here you are. "i win with this because i'm good it's definitely not too strong or anything. of course it has counterplay! just uhhh, counter it." i call it nurse main cognitive dissonance
Survivors have discord, insta-heals, red and purple keys, stackable mist, etc etc...
And you want to talk to me about using mediocre addons?
Reallly? If you so concerned about counterplays read threads about nurse there are plenty of them and there are plenty of counters im not going to repeat those again and again. Nobody says that avoiding her is the only counterplay.
Hiding is an interaction.
Never played hide and seek ?
It IS a counterplay to hide since the base movement speed doesnt allow nurse to walk around to find one.
But as always, if you don't want to adapt and have the eternal same gameplay on every killer, welcome to bore land :)
We'll never have something constructive with threads like this, each one defending his own version of reality.
A Nurse without addons is fun and challenging.
A Nurse with addons is unfair, sometimes broken and not fun whatsoever.
Running in circles requires no skill. Period.
First learn to write correctly, then you can pontificate.
The problem with these kind of games is that stronger role is much more attractive for majority.
I mean who wants to be an underpowered meat?
Basically the only time i play survivor is when im with friends.
Survivors just don't want to face strong killers... Period. Have you noticed they only have issue with killers that are constant threats?
Nurse
Billy
Spirit
Why don't nobody mad when it's a Wraith with his strongest add on?
Honestly, this. Base Nurse is just above their balance target, which is close enough for me. It's things like 5-blink nurse and Omegablink Nurse that she gets a little crazy.
The addon that allows her to have 5 blinks reduces their range to an extent that it becomes basically pointless and you'd be probably better off with just 2-3 blinks.
The only way nurse can be balanced is if they make stealth more valuable. As of now it's just looping, and stuns. They could make stealth more viable than looping which would solve a lot of problems. Other killers would be usable, survivors would have another option. Nurse is op but I don't see a way she could be fixed without breaking her. As for the skill=she deserves to kill everyone argument... it's dumb as hell. Once you learn her blinks she's easy to 4k with. Imo she isn't the hardest killer. Time to learn doesn't equal difficulty.
nurse is fine - leave her alone.
Nah
Man I bet spirit really kicks your ass too then. IMO, spirit is more terrifying then nurse. Yes, nurse is more OP, but you don't see spirit coming. It's just BAM! Your injured. BAM! Now your down. ######### just happened? And the general grabs you can get are RIDICULOUS!
*GEN GRABS*
Nah
Never said she kicks my ass, so idk where you all are getting that from. And No Spirit does not do much to me either, although spirit are extremely formidable and admittably more fun to go against
A killer should not force someone into a specific playstyle just to have a chance verse a killer. How amazing is it to know that your skill and experience means absolutely nothing? People shouldn't be forced to sit behind a rock because the killer cannot be beat in a chase, despite your skill level.
So all killers should be weak to all strategies? Then what's the point of even having more than one killer, if nothing changes? Survivors are the ones who're supposed to be skins, not killers.
Its almost like Spirit and Nurse are the two killers who have next to no counter play in an actual chase.
This game revolves around killer and survivor interaction. When you remove the ability to do nearly anything verse her in a chase, and force someone to hope they don't get in a chase just to have a chance, you need to address it. Skill verse Nurse doesn't matter. Knowledge of tiles doesn't matter. Nothing matters. You have to pray to God that the Nurse doesn't play reactionary.
You don't see why certain characters should have certain counterplay? You don't see a problem with a world where doing one thing defeats every single Killer consistently?
You don't see why a killer should actually have counter play in a chase? The "just stealth" excuse just something that killers use to hide the fact that she is mechanically broken. It forces players to stealth, because a survivors skill verse her is almost completely irrelevant. Like I said, in a game that revolves around killer and survivor interaction, this should not be a thing.
Translation: I want them to be loopable.
When you go behind a wall, she has to guess where you are going...that's your counterplay opportunity.
until they blink to the corner where line of sight is broken and then readjust with their 2nd blink. a lot of counterplay there. and if it's you they'll have a third one just in case
Or she blinks at the corner of the wall and uses her 2nd blink as the precise blink. You know, like a smart Nurse who doesn't guess where a survivor is going.
Translation: I want them to have more chase counter play. With Spirit, skill is once again irrelevant, as it is just a guessing game. With Nurse, she ignores any knowledge of tiles and game mechanics. So not much chance to use any skill.
Lmao
is this why you use 3 blinks every game? the truth has been revealed
That precise hit becomes completely voided when survivor dead hards and while she's fatigued they smartly urban evades with iron will.
You realize that stealth takes skill, right? Looping isn't the only skill in reality, and mastering it doesn't entitle you to free wins no matter what. If you're having trouble with Nurse...git gud.
Oh, and you can totally outplay her blinks even if you insist on brute forcing everything with running. She's locked into blinks she initiates.
Sorry, I forgot crouching behind a rock takes skill
Or you know, you can wait for them to Dead Hard, get fatigued and then get them. But if they Dead Hard, you're probably gonna be too close to them for them to even have a chance of Urban Evading away. Not every map is the Estate.
Or you could use your third blink after they dead hard lol
i like how that post boils down to "the precise hit doesn't matter when the survivor uses these 3 different specific perks to counter it literally one time in a chase"
the lack of self awareness is real tbh
@Zertix in red ranks I mainly get plagues, I'm surprised not as many people are complaining about her tbh.