Why do people hate NOED so much?
I play 60/40 survivor/killer, I really don't see it as a huge problem since its an endgame perk where the killer is already losing. By the time you even know the killer has it, both of the exit gates are typically open. It usually just gives the killer an extra kill unless the survivors are dumb and stick around too long or aren't competent enough to do the totems.
Comments
Basically this. There's also no way to tell if the killer has NOED or if a non-obsessed survivor has D-Strike. They're both badly designed.
To be fair, you can usually assume NOED if the killer is weak (resorts to camping/tunneling, does poorly in chases) or if the character is weak (hi, Freddy). Non-obsession survivor D-Strike isn't as bad as it once was, but that perk still needs a rework imo.
In my experience, survivors have issue with it because it can turn a 1k into a 3/4k. The killer could do poorly and still net a win with a perk's help.
No doubt the perk can swing things in the killers favor, but unless the other survivors are happily dancing in front of the killer at the very least 2 can get out if they jump on a gate until it's open and then leave.
Admittedly, back in the day when I used NOED, a game where I was so lucky to get 1 survivor on the hook before a gate was opened and they all escaped. Many games the other 3 would stay . . and keep messing around like they're going to outsmart me. All I want is at at least one kill, I was terrible back then. Nope here they come swarming the hook, ready to body block and all because they didn't walk out of the open gate ROFL.
I totally agree with you, but it has been in so many cases that survivors have a gate open. They can leave, but they chose to stay. Any time a survivor chooses to stay instead of leave, they need to get over it if they die.
I can see NOED as an anti borrowed time perk at the end game. Without NOED with 1 or more players going for the save to body block and the BT protecting the injured there is no way a killer is going to secure any kill. And survivors get to use borrowed time throughout the entire game.
Again, I agree with you that the perk can help get a massive snowball in an otherwise lost game, but 9/10 times the other survivors simply had to leave out the gate, but chose to stay. Their choice not to leave caused their death, not the perk they weren't counting on the killer having. The perk just made it possible.
I punish survivors all match and then top it off with a boot to the ass from NOED. Not sure why its assumed NOED only works when the killer was losing.
@fluffybunny since you mentioned poor play in one of your posts :-)
Many people like to create their own personal thread of frustration. I look up old threads and surprised at some how they died out as some players have made some very good suggestions and arguments of all sorts, but they die with time.
No one wants to support someone else's died out frustration thread XD
I actually wanted to reply to this after, but didn't want to be that person leaving a ton of replies in a row. QQ Hatch could use a rework so that it's more of a game of skill rather than often a gift to survivors, regardless of skill. Hatch isn't really a sign of poor play unless we're suggesting survivors should be treated as a unit. I've had many games where I've done all the gens or was the only one solid in a chase, so there's often a range of skill when regarding both solo and swf. It should be more of a process, though, that takes skill, but is doable with just one person, though.
Survivors feel it "robs them" of their victory.
The more posts the more info shared. It's always good to receive feedback. We all hope for opinionated feedback, not that hateful stuff.
I wasn't trying at a real balance to the game, but you're not the only one to mention NOED rewards poor performance or something similar. So I thought the hatch would be a good resemblance to NOED and unrealistically would cancel each other out in the rewards for being bad department.
Agreed, because you and your team only got 2+ gens done doesn't mean you are bad by any means. Though if a killer keeps good pressure, secures quick hooks and gets kills before gens can power the gates I say they deserve the kills. Just as a 4 man survivor team. It's not fair to any of them if the killer manages to get 1 survivor due to NOED if they all managed to survive only to power the gates and get dumped on. I feel they are of similar weight in the value they have to both sides.
I typically don't care if I die once gates are powered. Points and pips are secured by that point. If a killer gets me at the end and camps me, I expect it. If I see NOED go off, I'm not usually blindsided by it. It's honestly more annoying when your teammates aren't on board. I've had games where I cleansed all totems but one and the DS kiddo couldn't even bother with the last totem. So what was everyone surviving turned into a 3k 'cause the one who wasn't caught was inept. The person wasn't bad at playing, I don't think. Sometimes people will put NOED on characters they aren't used to.
I agree. It's best to keep ideas going around. ^^ Being rude or hateful doesn't really help anything.
I was thinking it was more like DS 'cause DS users tend to be weak and it often ends with an easier "win" where they don't have to learn to loop as well and so on. Killers will often leave DS on the ground and if there's two people and one is DS, the killer is only going after them if they have an obsession perk in most cases. I'm sure there's other things, too. I don't use DS, so I may not know all the elements related to the perk. I just know what I see from my teammates and from killers.
The point of the hatch currently is to find the survivor (as killer) before they find or near the hatch. So, it's like the final frontier for both sides. The big this is that the last person is often the one hiding/not doing gens and not the one trying to get both of them out, though, and it often ends up in a stalemate, which is boring for both sides.
When did you become so killer sided? Every comment I see from you is always in favour of killers. You ditched survivor or something?
What is the difference between 3 survivors getting downed with NOED and 3 survivors getting downed in one phase of Michael's EW3? It's both just bad play from the survivors' side.
Can noed be prevented? Yes. Then it's not broken.
Besides, both sides got some stuff that can change the result of the match at the end of it, and i like that. If games were predictable they wouldn't be as interesting as they are.
They want to camp their cake and eat it too. How dare those survivors not wait for me to camp this guy out of the game!
I seriously hope the endgame gets reworked soon. To be more fun. NOED is a perk that fixes it. It's a bandaid. The devs have plans to rework the endgame. If they do and the killers have a chance to 4k in endgame, then you better believe that the chances are, NOED will be reworked completely.
Every time that I've run into Noed and died was from this, a killer camps one guy, we do the gens, then he slugs me or someone next to the exit gates and continues to camp. But to clarify, I don't think the perk is at fault it's the player abusing a toxic play style and not being countered for it. Then again, every game I'm in there's atleast a minimum of 2 d strikers.
I will assume, that survivors don't rank Micheal's power or Devour Hope the same as NOED as both of those perks require the killer to do something. Where as NOED is automatically applied.
It's only a guess. I could be wrong.
That being said, the attempted balance for NOED is not only the fact totems are it's lifeline, but many players seem to forget the killer is running with 3 perks basically the main part of the game. NOED is a last ditch effort to turn a game around in a sense.
I don't run NOED, not because I dislike the perk or anything, but it got old being bashed for using it. Using other perks with certain killers are just as viable to snowball a 4k. NOED isn't necessary, but I don't like to lump most NOED users into the noob bin.
If I come across NOED, DS or whatever it's just a game. Roll your eyes and say oh well lol.
I was having an awesome game. I had the Wraith on the corn map (name slips my mind right now). I was hit once, pulled three people off the hook, fully healed two people, completed 2 1/2 of the gens, cleansed two totems, and opened one of the escape doors.
After the door was open, I ran out to a hook that was in between both doors and unhooked one last survivor. On our way back to the open escape door the Wraith appeared only a few meters from the door. I was at full health and moved to go through the exit gates... and I got one shot to the dying state.
I did everything right. I did the objectives. I helped and supported my teammates. And I died from a one shot move because the killer was running a perk that made up for all the mistakes they made during the game.
NOED is a perk that says “no matter how bad you are and how many mistakes you make you can still get a free kill, and no matter how good you play you can still instantly die after you’ve done everything right”
It's not really so much that as a killer can suck the entire game I mean absolutely no map pressure and literally just camp their hex totem etc. If the spot they're camping also has the totem close or it's really well hidden the killer gets downs they didn't really deserve.
Also this isn't any comparison to the hatch either so all the hatch complainers don't even bother since there's no equivalency here.
I don't really have an issue with NOED other than when I get downed by it after cleansing the other 4 totems and if anything totems should be worth much more.
If totems were worth 1k objective points and hexes worth 2k points you'd expect everyone is going to go looking for totems.
That's less people doing gens and much more likely to get caught by the killer looking for said totem cleansers.
I don't dislike NOED because I think it's unfair, I think it's totally fair. The survivors have the full opportunity to cleanse the totems ahead of time. I dislike NOED because it rewards killers for the survivors being greedy, not because they actually played well. It gives kills that they didn't earn. I think we'd be shocked to see the games kill stats if all NOED downs were taken out of that data.
In this situation, NOED is more about punishing a cheeky survivor. Rewarding the killer with a so-called "unearned kill" is a side-effect.
None of that is a contradiction. If the survivors do all of what you said, that is THEM being greedy and playing dumb, not anything the killer did.
It is punishing the cheeky survivors, but it's unearned kill side effect is why I dislike it and I still believe it's a crutch for playing badly. I'd rather it be a perk that punished the cheeky survivors by giving you more time to make plays, not free hooks.
Like I said, I think it's totally a fair perk that can easily be countered. I will just never run it as any kills it's giving you, you wouldn't have got other wise.
If you were downed at the end by NOED, you didn't earn your escape. Git gud.
NOED is a noob perk that rewards bad play!
Totems are too difficult to find or no time to cleanse them, because my teammates are bananas.
If the survivors get all the gens they deserve the exit gates.
How dare a killer camp a hook in the end game! Let us safely unhook and go!
But if we fail as survivors and the hatch spawns let us have the hatch.
No that's not like securing a kill!
Camping is toxic hatch is not!
Just wow to all these double standards!
If you think, the killer should let the last guy get the hatch and not slug for a 4k. Why don't the same survivors let the killer have one NOED hook and just leave the game and move on to the next match?
What is the difference?
We do. So looks like we all deal with it. You keep your DS and we'll keep NOED. We have Enduring and you have cleansing. ;}
The perks are fine. You're just mediocre in talent and cleansing totems, which require map navigation and awareness, are too complicated for you to do reliably. That's a personal issue. A git gud one specifically. Understanding that, play carefully and exit the gate instead of sticking around to troll the killer and try and unhook that survivor through brute force.
Perhaps you could learn how to pressure gens, learn when a survivor is better than you and give uo the chase, and stop relying on perks to carry you through?
Even zubatlel sometimes uses NOED so the "only bad killers" use NOED is thrown out of the window. I use it on legion for the 4% MS increase and sometimes to surprise adrenaline users or ppl who just run for the hooked guy.
And ppl who compare NOED to DS are beyond helping.
The only perk that would be an equivalent to DS would be a perk that would reduce neccesary hooks on survivors by one which yes, would be incredibly broken. Welcome to DS.
NOED is nothing but a "free" down but only if you catch the survivor in the first place AND if your totem lights up in the first place. If more than 1 person gets downed by NOED then it's ENTIRELY the survivor's fault for not cleansing totems and still being altruistic while NOED is still up.
Glad some streamers play with honour though.
No thanks. The perks are there for that specific purpose. Deal with it. As for all of those terms you like to throw around, the amusing part is that you lack the talent to do any of that which is why you're a survivor main. Your skill caps at staying immersed and looping a pallet. When you fail at doing those two things and find yourself on a hook near the end game because you wasted all the pallets early and mid you are upsetti spaghetti your teammates can't save you easily. Or in the opposite scenario, you can not save the guy that made those same mediocre choices. The sad part of all of this is even if they removed NOED and you managed to climb to the top ranks you'd have your ass carved and handed to you gourmet by killers that absolutely never use NOED.
Because it rewards you for playing bad.
So many games I have had where the killer is either hardcamping, tunneling one survivor all game, or just dropping chases constantly and not committing to a single one, just to get a 2k or 4k because NOED.
And with the new totems spawns, getting all 5 totems is hard unless you actually use a perk solely for the purpose of finding totems. Even then, if the killer is facecamping the survivor, getting all the 5 totems is time you can't afford.
Great logic. I mean it's not like there are killer mains out there who don't use it and think it feels cheap.
No, I know you are a survivor main because you have spent days on the forums whinging about an endgame perk that affects the easiest side to play. If you played killer to any real degree along with survivor you'd understand none of the complaints you are making have any merit and you'd have the ability to just lose with grace.
You'd also have some insight into why you can not save every survivor and have to put self preservation as top priority. Failure to do so is why NOED is OP to you.
Also, just because you or others feels it is cheap doesn't mean anything. That's just subjective opinion with an emotive argument. Some killers have one hit downs and they can NOED you every single time, all match long, with no way to avoid it outside of dodging. Just like NOED.
And therein lies the point of NOED. It gives one hit down ability in the end game for killers that need it.
This "Also this isn't any comparison to the hatch either so all the hatch complainers don't even bother since there's no equivalency here." Is Hilarious.
The only time players bring up being rewarded for "poor performance" in regards to killer or survivor they bring up
As they both aren't earned, they are ACTIVATED automatically when substandard game mechanics are applied.
Rant all you like, but trying to shut out those with common sense "hatch complainers" proves how ignorant you are. You don't want the game balanced around facts, you want the game balanced around feelings.
I don't care about hatch or NOED. The simple fact is that they have more in common with how their mechanic works, rewarding those who don't have to work for anything. All they have to do is wait for the mechanic to become activated.
NOED isn't a problem.
People like to harp on it because it gives them less control at the end of the match.
NOED indirectly slows down gens a bit too. NOED is healthy. 14 seconds x 5 is all it takes to kill the perk.
And the HIGH majority of the time if NOED goes active it is broken within 1 down at best. It is a powerful perk, but it is situational.
There's lots of times I bring it and never even get to use it because I 4k with 2 or 3 gens left.
This is a game where the concept is that surviving is tough and not easy. But sometimes it is. That's fine.
NOED counters gen rush somewhat. NOED is 100% needed. It's like even in the game's tagline.
death is not an escape
no one escapes death
I mean come on. NOED has counterplay.
SWF doesn't. Stop crying.
Personally, I don't hate it. It's an unpleasant surprise, especially if you busted your ass to survive the trial you're in. But really, I've only been paying this game since last August and by now I've accepted it as one of the many occupational hazards of being a survivor. If the gates are powered and nobody has been hit since then, I automatically assume that NOED is in play and don't stick around to find out if it is or not. Breaking dull totems doesn't take much time at all and I generally stop to do them as I encounter them throughout the trial.