Jason needs emergency nerfs incredibly unfun to face
Krasue release all over again everyone is playing Jason because he’s piss easy and free wins. You see the outcry.
Krasue release all over again everyone is playing Jason because he’s piss easy and free wins. You see the outcry.
Read THIS post.
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Why do people keep saying he has no cooldown? His power has a 12 second cooldown after leaving Omnipresent Evil with a jump scare. The load time is time spent walking to a spike setup/hook, which is RNG. Yes, it can be perfectly on route so he loses no distance, but even a 2 second detour is massive distance loss in a chase.
ehh i wouldnt say he has no CD, its a short one but still he has one.
Yeah granted that however he can still use OE to catch up though, he can be quite oppressive, and i dont think people like it, i still think he needs a nerf. This is what happened on The Firsts release
thats fine. If you guys do get him nerf'd, dont be crying the next day if you keep facing Blights/Nurses/Ghouls/Krasues. Dont be on here demanding nerfs for them, I mean you could but ya'll will look silly after you got Jason Nerf'd and then demanding even more. Just saying.
Im not talking about your ability to reach another tile, im talking about the ability to move forwards away from the killer and just hold w away from them after getting hit. Even after only flying slightly forward the speed boost from injury should allow you to hold w for a bit and make some distance. You might get caught before the next tile if unlucky, but you should be able to reach something to loop (even if its just a z wall) if you can path efficiently. To call a hit 10-15s after a ranged attack a double tap is a bit disingenuous.
And the second part just means your punishing him for hitting his shots then, which again doesnt make sense. There are other nerfs that can be given, and you can dodge his ranged attack relatively consistently, so theres no need to then allow you to freely get to a new tile because you got hit. Again, no other killer does that, and I've yet to hear an argument for that. You say misses are punishing for huntress and slinger, when both of those are nowhere near what your suggesting. Huntress especially can just throw another hatchet, she has 7. Wesker gets a miss from his power because the hitbox is his entire body, which is an incredibly forgiving hitbox unlike jason's who is the same size as deathslinger shot rather than hatchets/weskers entire body. Nemisis doesnt get a slowdown after the slash, just whilst slashing, but his slash also destroys pallets. Slinger can just reload or choose not to and go on to m1 and most people run keys to make it take next to no time. None of these examples get punished anywhere similarly to what your describing and you are at best stretching these examples to fit your narrative here.
Ah ok great, so no evidence of anything then.
didnt realize we had to record every game
seriously, he needs a nerf now. this shits #########. and i just came back to the game….and just like that im gone again lol
You posted a claim saying that "the killer needs nerfs" I posted a counter claim, stating kill rates aren't relevant because people quit and DC and give up.
You then said "People aren't giving up or dcing in my games"
So i said: "Post some matches then"
and now i'm the #########?
I'm simply asking for some kind of evidence. If you post even just a single match, its going to show 1 of 3 things:
If you are unable or unwilling to provide evidence of your claim, then it isn't really worth talking about is it?
And its not like i'm asking you to do some massive effort. You download OBS which takes 2 minutes, you play the game like you normally would, which you normally would anyway, while running obs. And then after the match you spend 2 minutes uploading it to youtube.
I think one of the biggest problems in this discussion is how quickly people judge the killer from only one side.
Of course survivors need time to learn how to play against a new killer. Nobody should play two matches, lose badly, and instantly claim something is broken. You need experience against the killer, you need to understand the counterplay, and you need enough matches to see what works and what does not.
But the same applies to people defending Jason. If someone mostly plays killer, buys the DLC, has a great time with him, and then says “he is perfectly fine” after only a few survivor matches against weak or inexperienced Jasons, I cannot really take that as a serious balance opinion either.
In my opinion, if you want to judge Jason properly, you need a real sample size. Not 3 matches. Not 5 matches. You need at least 40–50 matches against him, preferably against competent Jason players, and ideally from both perspectives. Otherwise you are not really judging his balance, you are judging your first impression.
After playing against him a lot myself, I understand much better why some very experienced players and comp players rate him so highly. When players with 12k–18k hours, including people from the comp scene(like Dan and KL from Invic), say Jason may be a top 5 killer, I don’t think that should just be dismissed as exaggeration. These are not people who usually throw out ratings like that for no reason.
And honestly, I can see it now. Jason has a kit that covers almost everything: mobility, stealth, chase pressure, ranged zoning, Haste, Killer Instinct, strong reload access, impale pressure, tracking, and very strong map interaction. The issue is not that one single part of his kit is unbeatable. The issue is that the whole package gives him too much value while asking for too little risk.
That is why I find some of the “he is completely fine” takes hard to take seriously. If someone has not played enough against competent Jasons, or refuses to look at the survivor side at all, then that opinion is not really grounded in experience. It is just defending the side they enjoy playing.
I don’t want Jason gutted. I like the killer, and I think his design is very cool. But pretending he is perfectly balanced right now feels unrealistic to me. His risk/reward is off, and once more players fully optimize him, I think more people will understand why some high-level players are already rating him so highly.
Jason only needs minor nerfs… not taken out back like skully nerfs…
Started playing a lot more survivor as of late because I'm trying to p100 my Ace. And the only problem I have so far is Deputy Badge/Hex: Ruin and the fact that they severely punish you actively using Jason's counterplay.
This just seems like the standard new killer learning curve. Haven't played as him but I have played against and I picked up on what to do pretty quickly.
Stay working on gens during OE if you're not in a dire situation; pay attention to his potential spawn points; if they try to use OE in chase then try to stay equally in between the two closest spawns to force him out of OE; use sound queues to help you dodge scrap throws (just like Huntress).
I'd say his power is basically Wraith + Huntress with a twist where survivor resources are more dangerous to camp due to OE exits.
Doesn't seem too strong to me. Been having fun learning the counterplay.
I want older killers brought up to this standard, not Jason brought down.
12 seconds on OE… I'm cooked. 🙄
I'm not saying most even, but its fine, you don't wanna have a good faith discussion here because now you are just straw manning. No worries we can just move on.
I completely disagree with nerfing Jason. I think he is the most balanced killer to have released in current memory. His movement power isn't OP or overtuned. It feels just right. His spears are slower than Huntress hatchets and if you run to location with no hooks reloading with him is a pain and makes him lose tons of distance. The only people I see complaining about him are people that are either unable to dodge his spears properly or are unable to loop efficiently. I've gone against my fair share of Jason's recently and I have had multiple games where I've ran them for 2-3 gens. It's just about absorbing his power and understanding the proper counterplay and implementing that into your playstyle. I mean he's basically Huntress with a smaller projectile and a bit faster. Just respect him like a 4.6 killer and dodge his spears like Huntress. I find Jason fun to go against and nowhere near OP or needing immediate nerfs. People just need time to adjust to his playstyle and power. I think the bigger issue is the new go next epidemic we find ourselves in. Most of my games I play as either Jason or another killer have at least one person DC because something they didn't like happened during the match. DC penalties need to be severely increased in my opinion. They should start at a minimum of 15 minutes. I've never played another game where people DC as much as in DBD.
I personally haven't experienced many DC on my end as Survivor in my matches, people do sometimes obviously give up. That happens in a lot of matches that are overly oppressive and with more and more fast Killer's power creeping up.
While Survivors may have more tools in their kits, some of their best all time perks have been gutted and nerfed. Diminished returns have nerfed the focused builds and any useful perks we get are hidden behind requirements you can spend half the match trying to use, while the Killer is ping pongimg around the map completely undetectable, throwing ######### and reloading while chasing you.
Can you at least blacklist him from the event so he does not ruin it? Seriously it always sucks when you guys release a broken killer who makes an otherwise cool event awful.
OE spam Jason players when he gets nerfed and they have inflated MMR because we spent to long waiting on data when most of us know OE is the issue.
My problems with jason are this:
He can cancel survivor vault animations if he just so happens to OE at your vault. Ive had it happen twice where I went to vault while in chase and was a 1/4 to 1/2 through and it put me back on the other side just to be m1'd through a window. I was held in place while my vault was canceled just to then scream on his jump scare.
He reloads mid chase with no animation lock or recovery, wether you get hits with the spikes or not hes to forgiving to killers mid chase with no downsides. His slow while aiming seems to be agreed by the community to be one of the faster aim movement speeds with no real downside. After throwing his projectile he also seems to recover faster than other ranged killers. Springtrap still has a cooldown and just like all other ranged killers has a recovery animation from using their powers. (like wesker while hitting or missing a bound essentially the weapon wipe)
His jump scare is bugged and bypasses perks like calm spirit or hardened even while in a locker. I understand the killer instinct baked into jason and thats not what im talking about, no other perk or power in the game lets you scream in lockers and every scream perk thats come out in the past immediately was hotfixxed while his has stayed since the ptb.
His power has no cooldown or limit and is heard by EVERYONE on the map. I think his power should work more like the spirits where you can only really hear her using it if shes close. Having the whole match hear the power just has too many people urban evasion in fields not working on gens artifically inflating his kill count and match wins. I think this was done by design and aside from how long he can stay in his power everyone just stops what they are doing even if he isnt close because they hear the power and dont want to be the first to go down. The spirit is forced out of her power to give survivors a chance to locate her. The nurse screams while using her power, billy has a loud chainsaw you can hear even when hes undetectable. Ghoul makes out whooshing noises and you know when he is close or far, blight also has the same mechanic where you hear him bounce off objects and you can tell how close or far he is. All these killers love them or hate them have very obvious counterplay that works in a satisfying manner and agreed on by both sides. Jason has all of the benifits with none of the downsides to a chase or teleport power.
This last one is just a personal, I think he should be able to break pallets with his spear.
Oh no, not lost distance when you start every chase directly behind a survivor with a powerful ranged attack, 25 seconds of haste, killer instinct, and a bs exhaustion add on…
What? People are having an easy time vs the new killer who nobody really knows how to play against? Who could have guessed that. It's almost like every other game that adds a new character has super inflated stats for the first few months.
Lmao at all the downvotes for saying I like Jason as he is, I get it y'all don't like him. That's completely fine, so lets just wait for BHVR to give him the Kaneki treatment. Nerf him like everyone is so politely and reasonably demanding, and he probably won't even drop a tier or anything... assuming BHVR doesn't go overboard that is. Either way he's still gonna be a great killer with a fun projectile and good mobility.
I mostly play survivor too and agree with most of what your comment said about the spear / chase is really fun to verse and I've been enjoying it as well. but you said in comment he is fine as is which I don't agree with. (I didn't downvote for record)
I think OE needs changes and how some Jason players are using it is not healthy for the game.
I don't know what to say but i've seen more people giving up as Jason than having success playing him. I personally don't have an issue to go against Jason. A friend of mine who is a streamer is constantly escaping against Jason - she has many hours in DBD, but he doesn't seem that oppressive.
Like I said, they are likely to nerf him and he shouldn't be too badly affected. Still fun to play as and against, just a bit weaker.
@Balrog Advertising products isn't allowed right? Especially ones based on cheating with whats most likely a scam link.
And there's nothing you can do to stop me!
Aside from that cheating in games is just really boring, like the majority of the time if they just invested a bit of time practicing they game they wouldn't feel the need for cheats.
Jason has a completely new and unrecycled power never seen in any killer before him, what are you trying to get at?
is he being racist or sarcastic im bad at detecting this, whats wild
After many matches against him, I now question why a range-killer who has a traversal power blended with stealth even needs haste after TP to a pallet or window.
Sure it's supposed to circumvent W holding but isn't part of the counter-play against that is to deal RANGED damage?
I'm auto assuming racism
yeah i assumed the same thing
What proposed nerf would you suggest? And how is someone spamming something with a 12 second cooldown. You realize that MOST killer powers have a cooldown between 0-15 seconds right?
Or, you know, it could be a little of both. Jason is a bit too strong at the moment and needs some adjustments, but I’m sure the devs will have a much clearer picture once the killer has been out for a month or so. This way, they can make the necessary changes instead of butchering him right after release.
I mean, maybe all of those killers need some nerfs. Just a thought…
Nurse needs white comb basekit
Friendly reminder to not click on blob: or unsafe:blob: links as they are unsafe and can be used for phishing
yeah i see that now
And how is someone spamming something with a 12 second cooldownThey are spamming it as in some matches the Jason will go in and out of power as soon as that 12 seconds is up.
When the counterplay to that is meant to be crouching how are we expecting the survivors to get anything done when someone is playing like that. combine that with the hex ruin and thrill every Jason has been running who is being what I dub a "OE spam Jason" because they set up around their totems and gens. and due to the nature of OE where you have no idea where he is (unlike Spirt, Henry, Wraith) Survivors have not choice but to crouch around or be seen.
I had one Jason match today where he had 4 gen at tricksters demise main with a totem and he just never left that area, chasing people who would go into it but then running back to it in OE if you chased away from it. Its plays like old v1 SM and why I've seen some people compare him to her.
What proposed nerf would you suggest?I think a cooldown around 30 second cooldown would be a good change to try (around the same as Henry upside down cooldown)
( I initially wanted way less info in OE but don't wanna punish Spear play Jason's who are not OE spamming )
You realize that MOST killer powers have a cooldown between 0-15 seconds right?OE is not his entire power he has a spear / range part of his kit. Spears are by no means a weak part of his kit and seen some very good plays been done with spears (I don't wanna touch spear part of kit)
I think OE is fine its the abusable part of it that isnt, you can like you said abuse ruin with it or you can spam deputy badge forcing way more than the 5% progress loss it inflicts already.
Imo remove mist on totems and nerf deputy badge is the things he needs the most if any changes are to go through.
Ok and like, is this an issue with sadako? She can also spam tvs. Is this an issue with nurse? She can also blink immediately after the cooldown is up. Is this an issue with wraith? He can also go invisible whenever he wants. Is this an issue with ghost face? He can also stealth as soon as the cooldown is up.
That's what a cooldown is, it prevents you from spamming it.
The fact that you want his cooldown to be nearly triple just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
I would highly recommend watching Scott's video on this where he explains the counterplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJi8dVgBnecThe fact that you are boiling the counterplay down to "just crouch" shows exactly the problem here because that isn't the counterplay, not exactly anyway.
Thats the only thing she has they are not the same its silly to compare.
Sadako is also not going around with a spear its like the only part of her kit basically. Survivors can take the tape too turn the Tv off for a whole 70 seconds If she teleports too it its turned off for 45 seconds. (Jason's 12 seconds looking small rn)
Nurse has her own balancing issues but I really don't see why we are comparing. She is not going invisible.
Wraith has sound ques when he is nearby and cloaked. Jason has no ques he is near you in OE.
Ghostface can be seen and is not going straight up invisible?
Bruh this is really just false equivalencies and i hope anyone who plays can see how silly it is to compare Sadako teleporting to tvs to Jason OE.
Edit: I landed on 30 seconds because Henry upside down ability is comparable to OE in some ways, at least more then Sadako tvs are.. Also why are we needing to go into OE so often anyways. I feel like if we are at least attempting to chase with the chase part of his kit 30 seconds is not that bad. If henry had a 12 second long cooldown I'm sure some players would also be in upside down mode most of the match.
I could see them changes potentially working. I still worry about potential to still spam OE in one area of map for most of game only coming out to chase people off gens but would not be opposed if they where the first changes to see if that does fix his OE issues.
I just watched because I do enjoy Jund videos
1:19 "Alot of people dont even know that you can crouch to avoid that internally ….. That should be the for front of counterplay"
2:40 "Jason matches are gonna be longer" there is a fundamental disagreement I think. I don't want 20 min long matches in dbd and really confusing to me to be advocating for this with how Killer ques can be is this the reason why killer que be 10 mins in my region atm?
3:45 - onwards : "go away far away from any active generators" Yes and have a crouch off because the killer is not leaving OE until he can chase someone away from prime gens? are we really encouraging this sort of gameplay.
"other people in better spot can go work on a the gens if they get hooked or chased off still in a better spot" No? Chased off is more stalemate but what if they get hooked inside the gen placement (back corner of main tricksters delusion as a example) that is a way worse spot then before now the people who are now in a worse spot have to go deep into the prime zone to get the only person who can do gens (using scenario of "even if just one person is on gen" )
This is same defense used for v1 skull merchant. "what's was wrong with V1 skull merchant you can slowly progress the gens like that one comp team in a hens video did one time"
I agree with scott overall when Jason are commiting to chase and not staying in one spot, this does not address Jason's whos pick a prime spot around certain gens and totems and will just stay there.
if that cooldown was like I don't know 30 seconds I think my point would be a null point and scotts argument to how to counter would be valid as survivors are given time to do things without him going right back into OE after chasing someone off (I know 12 seconds)
But as it is currently I don't see a reason why OE cooldown cant be longer. do more spear play and chase it'll come back in no time, we could even refresh the cooldown after a hook to reward chase if it really is such a big deal to extend it.
I hope the people complaints about jasons haste to be heard and fixed... By making him 4.6 and zhus removing the need for haste.
Get monkeypaw'd.
We need to go into OE often because the killer is literally designed around it, he gets a speed boost coming out of it, if you are chasing survivors long enough that your speed boost wears off you are playing him wrong.
Well what is a healthy length for chase then? Starting a chase with a ranged hit then following up with an M1 down in 10-15 seconds is a very short chase. Plus he can just insta grab another spear.
And for the other ranged killers ranged attacks are all weaker than jason's spear and yet they come with recovery times even on a miss. Huntress hatchets are much harder to aim and hit than jason's spear and they don't push the survivor in a way the survivor has no control over she also has a 2 second period after the throw where she moves at 3.74 m/s. deathslinger isn't guarenteed to down with his ranged attack on an injured survivor, a bad hit to an injured surv is literally a self stun and even a straight miss his movement is slowed for a second or two as the spear reels back in. Nemi has a second or two of slowdown after he fires the whip and that needs the surv to be infected for it to work.
For jason to have an objectively more powerful ranged attack than any of these and have no recover time after throw or pick up animation is a but nuts.
I'm not asking for his spear to be gutted or even dragged down to the same level as huntress or slinger (they are both mid/low tier killers at best. I'm just saying he should have a huntress like slowdown applied for a couple seconds after the throw because currently he has absolutely none. I'd also like to see a slight animation to pick up spear midchase to allow survivors a bit more breathing space, bot a long one, maybe 0.3-5 secs since he nay detour for the pickup and would stand still as he grabs it.
Krasue isn't interesting enough of a design that's why people stopped playing her Jason however is so he's still going to have people playing him so he's gonna end up like Ghoul more then Krasue
Heard the same thing during many killer releases.