NOED is really bad game design
I know it. You know it. The devs know it. How about we all just admit it?
Playing in the green ranks and it's literally carrying every single killer there. Guess this is the easy way to balance the game. Killers are struggling? oh well just give them a perk to make up for it.
Now before people cry "ClEaNsE tHe ToTUmZ", how about the devs actually make that viable for single player by giving some notification of when dull totems are destroyed? or after doing 4 am I meant to run around the map searching every nook and cranny just to be sure?
God I hate this game sometimes. NOED and DS, 2 perks that change the entire outcome of the match. Great game design right there.
Comments
But here's a wacky idea.
So is DS!
Ok so survivors have gens and totems. Guess they don't need more objectives then and the game time is balanced.
If you remove NOED you're just gonna have more "gen rush" like when they nerfed healing and Sloppy got popular , why bother healing just more time on gens, and in the same way if you remove NOED why are survivors gonna look for totems over doing gens.
Yeah that doesn't matter. That one person mid chase is the only relevant person at that point and they get a free out. I don't have an issue with Adrenaline as it's just another perk and having good perks is good for the game. Having a library of impotent perks is tedium. That said it gets tiring listening to survivors harp on about ANY good perk a killer has that is anything more than useless fodder that won't stop them from walking out the gate. BBQC as example.
NOED gets 4ks on bad survivors. It doesn't get 4ks for bad killers against survivors that don't have an intention of showing their asses and letting ego rule their game. The killer can not both guard exit gates and guard the map to prevent totem cleansing. Hell, most survivors walk right by dull totems where as if each survivor cleansed just what they so happened to come across most NOEDS would never even fire. It's a git gud issue. More succinctly it's a "let's gen rush and embarrass the killer" issue. Sure, there may be an outlier case of a NOED totem stuck right inbetween the two gates but that is very rare and is no different than a totem spawning right next to a gen forcing the killer to play with three or less perks per game.
No, SWF hurts solos. Until it is removed from ranked strong perks that own them must exist to give killers a chance at dealing with a group. No perk is a hard counter to SWF but certain perks make dealing with SWF possible and certainly more than impossible. NOED can down one of the SWF at the right time causing a butterfly effect that would not be possible otherwise.
You assumed they were a solo player to make an argument. And if they state they are a solo player at this point you already poisoned the well defending their position so it won't matter.
Deserved, lol. You deserve nothing until you make it out of the exit gate. Sweet, sweet, entitlement. Frankly, you don't deserve two hits to go down. Play stealthy or die. You don't deserve three hooks, play stealthy, wiggle free, or die. You don't deserve a heartbeat. Stay aware or die. Etc, etc. You have some nerve telling killers what they deserve.
But on this topic. Not replying to you any longer.
DS and NOED are both awful for the game.
Guess they don't deserve the 4k then if they can't get the survivor before the hatch. They don't deserve the hook when decisive strike is used. Am I right?
NOED, camping and tunneling are the only things that encourage you to play with your friends? Damn and here I though people played SWF because they actually enjoyed each-others company.
I'd to explain my opinion on NoED and tell you its flaws as well as how to rework the perk.
The problem with NoED is that whenever the killer is using the perk (or isn't sometimes), you as a solo survivor will have to cleanse 5 dull totems. The moment you start doing that, the game has now turned into either a 1 versus 1 versus 3 or a 2 versus 3 scenario.
Scenario A: You start cleansing totems but since you aren't participating in generator repairs, your team starts to struggle and eventually get sacrificed. You just helped the killer by directing your pressure to totems and not generators. This would be the 2 versus 3 scenario because you ACTUALLY helped the killer.
Scenario B: Same as before but this time, your survivor team is 3-man SWF and you're the solo in the team. They start pumping out generators like no tomorrow and now, you're on a timer to cleanse all 5 dull totems before they power the final generator. This would be scenario 1 versus 1 versus 3 because you aren't helping the killer and the SWF aren't helping you.
Scenario C: Let's assume you're using Small Game and you start hitting totems. You're doing so good until you struggle to find the last dull totem, but you won't give up. Eventually the exit gates were powered on and you're scared out of your mind. Suddenly in the HUD, you see a survivor get injured instead of being downed. Now, you understand everything... A random survivor cleansed a dull totem which caused you to waste your time finding the non-existent 5th totem. This would be a 1 versus 1 versus 3 scenario because the randoms screwed up your mental counter while the killer was abusing that.
____________________________________________
Let's fix the perk now!
No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.Done, NOED now has equal impact on SWF and solo Q survivors without being ridiculous to counter.
I just realized something.
I despise Decisive Strike.
Not because it might be unbalanced, i never even consider that when thinking about that Perk.
I just hate being stunned, i find it to be a terribly unfun mechanic in any game.
If many Survivors will have a better time if the current NOED doesn't exist, then fine.
I mean, that's the devs' #1 priority, right? Not balance, but fun.
I'm not gonna miss a Perk anyway. (Well, except my baby Devour Hope.)
When did I ever say I want it in my *favor? All I have been saying is how everything you want is just not right at all and it give in more favor into the survivors more then anything, cause here is the thing, if one side of the party get some sort of buff, then the other side needs a small buff as well, even though this game sometimes does not do that, it should be like that. More then anything, its already in my favor, not asking for more favor (don't twist that around) And I didn't complain about SWF in general, I complained about implementing a certain "element" into the solo gameplay, and there is a difference between a game being fun and a game being fun for all *people, and on your point of view, it is only fun because you are winning without trying, you go into solo and your not having fun because your are losing and having to try. And the "There's nothing more fun then playing with people" is debatable, if that was the case, then everyone should be having fun playing swf right? No, there are some players out there that don't have fun playing with swf because they don't like how it give them an advantage without even trying, there are even streamers who have fun playing solo because they have skills and it gives them the thrill to survive and seek out information by your own eyes, it gives them that feel. And saying that, that hows the game was meant to be, tells a lot about you, you can go talk to Mathieu and it would be a different answer, the only reason why swf is even a thing is not because the game "was meant to be like that" It was more of what the people wanted and an option. btw if everybody knows that noed is op, then you should have everyone agreeing with you right? No, and that is almost every mistake I see from people that try to argue with that "Oh everyone knows that (insert something "everyone knows")" And when someone points out clearly that they are wrong and here whys, the next thing they say is "Because this and that and people don't want to this and that" It just shows the maturity of that person and the amount of excuses that can come out of their mouth. This is like saying Iridescent Head is op, but hey, just be able to dodge and outsmart the huntress and you will be fine, and she is limited to 1 or 3 hatches, this is like saying Judith's Tombstone and Fragrant Tuft Of Hair is op, but hey, just don't feed him and rush those gens. Also why do you assume I used noed? And yes you did assume "you want that endgame crutch. That big safety net so you don't walk away empty handed." I could be someone who does not use noed but knows that it is not op because of how it is a hex perk and it can be destroyed easily, and why also do you assume that I never get kills until noed comes in? I could have 1 or 2 kills already and the last two or one kills could be if they manage to get the gates powered with very few survivors left. And when did I ever, ever, ever ever say that solo should be harder? Please show me where I said that solo should be harder, I would loved to see where you got that, and don't quote "And I will always say this to anyone who complains about solo being harder" If you don't read and understand what I meant when I said that, you will look more stupid, and just to save my brain from having to explain later on, what I mean by that is that, swf is easier for people because they can get so much information in a quick second and by days later on, they will get used to it, but the moment they go from that to playing solo, it feels harder because they are used to playing with someone and getting information every second. So please, show me where I said I wanted solo to be harder then it already is. Here's the thing, being able to know how many totems are left is really not an upgrade, more of something so that you can be more lazy at, if you already know that there are exactly 5 totems (because that's how many their are, it never changes) Then theirs your upgrade, and if your gonna ask "Well if several totems are already broken, how am I suppose to know how many are left?" If you know how many totems their are and if your going around and you see broken totems, count down from that number and there you go....really not that hard. Having that upgrade will make no difference at all cause, if it tells you how many their are left, good for you.....but it doesn't tell you where the rest are at right? And it won't tell where the ones are broken right? So by then, when your looking around, you will most likely be passing by totems that are already broken, but you already know that some have been broken, so by that, you just wasted your time finding an already cleansed totem, so then by that, what's the point of having a counter if it doesn't tell you where the rest are at and where the ones have been broken? And it's funny how you didn't answer the questions I ask, so I assuming you dodge them, more or so didn't put effort into your counter argument because all in all, its just looked like and sounded like you just complained about what I said and completely stereotype me and use that, and it feels like you didn't even read half of what I said or understood half of what I said.Also, that's another thing, for something to be fun, it needs to be balanced, you simply said just to have fun, nothing about balance.
i.e when you brought up the swf being fun and the game ONLY being fun when playing with friends.
I skimmed it and yeah everyone on survivor side agrees NOED is OP, but killer mains wont admit it brcause they don't play the other side.
Just like people who play 90% survivor wont admit that DS is op.
Both are garbage perks that ruin the game. Both are complained about almost daily.
But we get it. You need survivors cleansing all those totems because its basically another gen. You aren't very good at the game and need that crutch. That's fine. Next we can have auto-aim on Huntress hatchets too to help you out even more. Why bother using skill?
No one escapes death is an end game perk.
endgame this may surprise surprise you to know is literally where the killer is at their weakest.
You can't contest with an open exit Gate and the killer is always at a disadvantage during hatch standoff.
Endgame perks are designed to give the killer more strength in the time when at their weakest.
Remember me: Exit gates takes longer to open giving killers precious time to down and hook survivors
Blood warden: Blocks the entrance to stop survivors from escaping and leaves them visible and vulnerable.
Rancor: Allows you to dispatch with the obsession quickly saving you time that would be wasted normally downing and hooking them.
Noed: allows the killer to instantly down survivors once again saving them time they would normally waste on a normal chase.
Whether you like it or not if endgame wasn't such a cakewalk for survivors perks like this would not have to exist.
The same way as Survivor is given the chance to escape and win in a situation where they get demolished by a killer through hatch, endgame perks allow the killer to salvage a lost game however unlike hatch it takes a perks slot to be able to use these hatch is free
Everyone knows i play more as a survivor than as a killer, and yet i think NOED is fine.
Then I've seen some ask for 7 gens. 7 gens!
If you need 7 gens or an extra 40 seconds per gen then you need to look at your own ability. Stats show that most survivors are dying. This is fact. So the problem is with you, not the gameplay balance because other killers are doing it.
Lol, as if i wasn't bored enough yet with Survivor gameplay.
As much as I hate getting bopped by noed after a good game, its amazing how hard people refuse to adapt to it existing. Like, if people are doing 4 totems and not finding the fifth, then facing noed at the end.... why not avoid the totems entirely until you know where all 5 are? That way you can return to them once the gates are powered and see if any are now glowing? Since the killer is likely beelining to an exit gate, you tend to have a perfect opportunity to cleanse it before the killer gets much use out of it.
popping all 5 totems before the endgame is the preferrable method, but remember it can only appear on a random dull totem. If you know where any (or even most) remaining totems are before it picks one, your chances of finding it in the postgame go up substantially.
The problem is absolutely with the gameplay balance, both for why killers can't kill fast enough and why survivors die more often. I feel like the death efficiency issue has been discussed in pretty great length on this board by now, and how it hurts both sides at different points in a game.
I'm starting to think NOED is fine, but I really don't like how the perk destroys solo survivors while SWF can take it down in a breeze. This needs to be changed, make NOED equally as strong for both groups of survivors.
The only way to do that would be to make it so the NOED totem doesnt even spawn until it activates. Instead of choosing a random one, it would basically have to just appear once the last gen is finished. That way it would be impossible for comms teams to clear them all in an organized fashion, and it would put them on (more) even footing with solo survivors. Of course even then, they would be able to organize searching in different sections of the map, so it would STILL favor them vs solo.
I dunno, it could work, but I feel like an easier way to do this is by getting every survivor to cleanse at least a single totem. If they don't, then we can increase the punishment since anyone can just cleanse a single totem.
For example, if you cleansed a totem, your safe from NOED but everyone else isn't unit they cleansed one. If they don't cleanse one at the end of the game, they will have their aura revealed for a certain amount of time while being permanently exposed.
OR... My version vvv
No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.Likewise if you go against a killer that'd playing well, theres a chance they won't have it.
The fact that this stays true to high rank proves that it's carrying some killers. Its there to make sure every killer can climb the ranks and feel good. You can use skill or the devs can hold your hand.
Why bother putting in the effort to win the hard way when you can just throw on NOED, Remember Me and Bloodwarden and cheese the ending?
Funny enough, the only time I ever use noed is when I get a daily on a killer I'm absolutely awful/underequipped on. It tends to come up in almost every single killer's bloodweb by level 20 for me, so there's rarely anything decent to fill the slots.
The more you talk the more amusing you become. Everyone knows there are only high ranked survivors because of SWF. Without that hard carry 99.9% of the people would never make it past 5.
And if were talking about the meta of the game, the killer will also be running Ruin to combat the gen rush and it will be destroyed 45 seconds into the game which means the killer plays with two perks against a SWF team that uses 16 perks.
Bottom line is there’s lots broken in this game. Unless they’re ready to simultaneously alter a bunch of other #########, don’t touch NOED.
They don't deserve it and they aren't given it. Dumbass survivors hand it to them game after game because they salivate the whole match just waiting to teabag at the gate and then the idiots get caught with their pants down from a NOED. The rest of your strawman isn't worth the energy responding too.
The discussion isn't about the hatch and you have no idea of my stance on it. Decisive Strike is an issue because nothing the killer does affects the outcome. The same can not be said for NOED. Put the skill check on the killer for Decisive Strike and it's perfectly fine.
Here are some scenarios on how NOED can destroy solo survivors:
Scenario A: You start cleansing totems but since you aren't participating in generator repairs, your team starts to struggle and eventually get sacrificed. You just helped the killer by directing your pressure to totems and not generators. This would be the 2 versus 3 scenario because you ACTUALLY helped the killer.
Scenario B: Same as before but this time, your survivor team is 3-man SWF and you're the solo in the team. They start pumping out generators like no tomorrow and now, you're on a timer to cleanse all 5 dull totems before they power the final generator. This would be scenario 1 versus 1 versus 3 because you aren't helping the killer and the SWF aren't helping you.
Scenario C: Let's assume you're using Small Game and you start hitting totems. You're doing so good until you struggle to find the last dull totem, but you won't give up. Eventually the exit gates were powered on and you're scared out of your mind. Suddenly in the HUD, you see a survivor get injured instead of being downed. Now, you understand everything... A random survivor cleansed a dull totem which caused you to waste your time finding the non-existent 5th totem. This would be a 1 versus 1 versus 3 scenario because the randoms screwed up your mental counter while the killer was abusing that.
Working as intended. Sometimes you do everything right and your team causes you to lose. You outlined things that can happen in a game not a reason NOED is unfair.
You statement is false though.
Sorry that was a misquote. I corrected it. It was for Crusader.
That's right, the perk is strong against solo survivors and weak against SWF. The perk needs to be strong for both survivor groups, namely, solo survivors and SWF. You see my argument?
I understand the argument you are making but I disagree with it entirely. NOED works quite well versus SWF. Nothing is 100% but without it you have no threat at all end game versus a coordinated team. At this junction, solo survivor is screwed. There is no perk design that can be created that will be strong enough for a group yet harmless versus a solo survivor. Instead of tippy toeing around that issue the community needs to come to grips with how broken SWF is. But since people are not brokers of truth or fair play and do not care SWF remains and so does the perk strength.
In scenario B i don't see any problem. Killers patrol gens, not totems, so should be easy to get rid of them. Whenever you play solo you gotta chamge your tactics and do what most randoms don't do.
For instance:
When i play solo i cleanse totems because most survivors don't give a ######### about them
When i play solo i don't go for the rescue (unless i'm close or strictly necessary) because i know most randoms do that, so i keep repairing gens.
Etc etc...
In scenario C i would say that it's way better this way than not finding the 5th totem and killers getting their noed. Better safe than sorry anyway, plus you got some bps for cleansing the other 4.
PS: with small game u can find the totems in no time.
Deal with it. ;}
Also nice that you've just basically admitted you cant deal with swf so want solos weak as possible for the easy 4k. Lol why not go play wii sports or something?
nope. if you dont have what it takes to be a rank one killer, then you dont know much about this game
That's a rank 2 killer btw
He imply's that because you're a rank one means your opinions valid... Yet I and many others have been rank 1 pretty much every season we've played and it takes little to no skill to get there.
Is that all new killers think ranks are... a status symbol? I thought that was like a meme.