Honestly, I am done for now and I hope you are too
The update, sure, needs tweaks. But why not implement a version with reduced numbers that basically only have impact in specific cases?
6 hooks too many to block gens? Depends on the killer, but reduce it to 4 so that at least someone else needs to be hooked first.
25% being too much of a boost? Drop it to 10%. Barely will have an impact, but it will give survivors some hope of finishing 4 gens if someone dies early.
Anti-slug can be implemented as is, Twins needs a rework anyway. If it needs tweaks, then do so later. Undying was up for 5 months before it got tweaked. Ghoul has been in an annoying state for forever too. Killers can deal with 3 months of anti-slug potentially being a bit too punishing
Keep the basekit bbq and 5% permanent regression bonus per unique survivor hooked too.
THEN tweak the rest around it. Its a baseline that would just make games more than just singularity basically camping with biopods, or a trickster dropping chase because main event is ready and the basekit BT is just a minor obstacle.
But fully delaying it for another 3 months? No. Sorry, Done. I already waited over a year to finally hear an update about a viable basekit anti-slug and some tweaks to anti-tunnel. I've waited 6 months since the emergency abandon feature. If I need to wait for another 3 months, thats going to be 3 months playing something else.
Comments
So if everyone has a 40% ER and a 60% KR—even if the experience is miserable—they have no arguments? That means almost no one here should be complaining about anything and there are no issues at all, because I've seen very few people in the forum below those numbers.
And what do stats tell you about what's happening in a match or how good someone is? That's the issue. You can have a 70% KR with minimal skill because all you do is tunnel and never learn anything else, and you could have a 50% ER while being a useless hatch rat who throws their team under the bus. These numbers alone don't reveal the issues in the game. They wouldn't be trying to address things if that were the case.
"If you play perfectly you can break even" isn't a huge point in favor of this being a good thing.
And while I agree that statistics didn't really capture (subjective) "fun", if you have a have where winning constantly sucks, then you're probably having even less of a great time of the system is designed for you to lose.
not sure where your getting that from… i said they have no argument to say that tunneling and slugging cant be countered because the stats show otherwise. i repeat, the stats show not if the match was fun or not but if they escaped or not. if they escaped then tunneling and slugging cant be that effective because they are still escaping. Fun aspect is a different matter. are they having fun? maybe not but its not fun being on a hook or sitting on a gen? should we change them so they are fun? going in circles around a pallet isnt fun, should we change that so it is fun?
if i said i dont like going in circles looping, people would say to me" dont play dbd then, thats the point to the game" and they have said this many times. no its not. looping is a method for survival like tunneling is a method for killing. fun aspect of both is subjective. maybe being a stealth rat is more fun than going in circles? But like i said the fun element is a whole different discussion to be had. the point i was making was in reference to the people that claim tunneling and slugging are unstoppable easy wins that cant be countered then say they have 40% escape rate…. both cant be true.
its not a case of play perfectly and break even, im not playing perfectly by any means and im stuck with poor team mates and people that go next or dont do gens and i also make mistakes. and i m still getting over 50% escape rate at the moment. can you imagine how much better that would be in an swf with coms? im winning and losing, im going v slugging and tunneling killers. Currently im enjoying survivor, because its way more chilled than killer role for me. the only thing i dont like is the awful team mates i get which can ruin the fun. but if it got too much i wouldnt play survivor…not because of tunneling or slugging but because of the role as a whole. bad team mates and generally bad core gameplay sitting on a gen or sitting on a hook. Thats the unfun aspect for me regardless of win or lose
But tunneling doesn't happen in every match. The 40% might be sustained by when it doesn't happen. The whole idea of the ptb was to meet in the middle. If you tunnel, you're punished. Those players might see a drop in their KRs. If you don't tunnel, you're rewarded and might see a boost. Changes were meant to bring increased interactivity, better sportsmanship, and less misery, while keeping the stats in range.
And if that presumed hatch rat with a high rate wasn't tunneled or slugged, it doesn't mean there wasn't any in the match. People who rat are the less likely to be tunneled or slugged because they're hiding and everyone else is taking the pressure that they aren't. Rats not taking aggro are part of the problem, hence the basekit BBQ idea.
And yeah, the stats only show numbers and not enjoyment. That's literally the problem of relying on stats alone.
And sure they're not 100%, particularly for bad players. If you're bad and decide to tunnel the best looper in the game you just autolost. But if you're decent, it's pretty hard to counter.
except there are countless threads and comments saying "tunneling happening every match" "slugging and tunneling all night" this doesnt add up with the numbers when so many people claim its guaranteed win for the killer. thats pretty much all im saying.
personally, for me, i do gens and play stealth. i might be considered a rat for not taking chase but when no one else does gens i pretty much have to do them or they dont get done. being in soloq, i have learnt my team mates wont risk themselves for me so when those gates open….im outa there, i dont hang around and t bag to killer or play hero. solo player…im looking out for number 1. i do what i can for team play to get the gens done but when gens are done you guys are on your own lol. this is what gets me my escape rate. playing this way is fun, not toxic and works. no issues
So is it that tunneling isn't happening that much in your matches, or is it that it benefits you because everyone else takes the heat?
And maybe your teammates won't risk themselves for you because you don't do it for them. People have saved me plenty in soloq because I spend the match trekking to people who need to be healed, taking protection hits, and taking aggro when I have less hooks. And I've traded and died for strangers at end game many, many times. Selfishness isn't a universal trait. But if someone has been hiding and using their team as shields all match, I sure will leave them behind.
You say it's not toxic, but I'd argue there's nothing in this game—including tunneling, slugging, and BMing—worse than a rat. I'll take a scummy killer over a selfish teammate any day.
Nice stats, but Im just wondering how often you used tombstone or do you run purple hair more?
tunneling happens, i have been tunneled myself. sometimes it takes team effort to counter. sometimes i can counter it on my own by looping long enough. sometimes my team mates or myself misplay and generally play badly. its a mix bag of win and lose, depends on the match.
as for helping others, like i say i spend the match helping them because they tools for me. i use them to help me get the gens done which benefits the team as whole. like they use me to get gens done. but when all is done and i no longer need them for my escape im out. just like many many people have done to me. i learn from experience. too many leave me on hook to die after i spent all match saving them and taking hits for them. i saw a pattern, these people ended up escaping and i ended up dying. so i changed my playstyle and now im the one walking out the gates when possible. the result was i went from about 30% escape rate overall, now im 40% overall with every month getting between 40 and 50% escape rate so my overall is slowly going up. thats soloq for you, players can play as a team (goodluck with that in soloq) or play selfishly.
The fact that you don't get tunneled every match means nothing. Same with me. I don't get tunneled often either, but when I do get tunneled, I know it's a guaranteed death for me, no matter how hard I fight it or how much the teammates try to help. But just because I don't get tunneled often doesn't mean that those who claim they're getting tunneled every single game are lying. Their experiences are just that much different from ours.
i used to run mix of tomstone builds or scratch mirror builds. since scratch mirror got nerfed to the ground i went tombstone all the way.
Then you didnt heard of getting downed under a palett which is 50/50 and flashlights or flashbangs with perks like sprintburst or background player are just cherry on top. Lightborn gives you more room to counter saves but its huge waste in killers kit which he will miss later and all depends how smart are survivors to reliaze killer has lightborn and play more agressive on gens and getting downed on paletts not in the open.
No offence but I thought there was many uses of tombstone to get this high kill rate because sadly mayers is very weak and addon dependent killer who has few options to stand chance against decent survivors.
the people that claim it happens every night and claim like you, its a guaranteed death but also have escape rate of 40% doesnt make sense. its a contradiction, always happening, always dying but escaping 40% of the time? im not saying everyone that says its happening every match is lying, it might very well be and they might very well be dying every match. but if thats the case they wouldnt have 40% escape rate. you cant say you always die and its happening every match and still escape.
Thats why i said the people that have escape rates below 40% have more validity in that argument of tunneling being unstoppable than people that claim this is the case and yet still escaping. either it is counterable, it doesnt happen every match or they dont have 40% escape rate.
I have a 40% as well, playing the way I do, regularly dying for strangers and always going for the save. People leave me behind sometimes, sure, but I'm not going to change because of other people's actions or to inflate some pointless stats. I approach killer the same way, by treating the team as individuals. They're not bots and I won't view them as such.
I've seen quite a lot of people with high ERs defending tunneling and slugging and its starting to make sense. If you view your teammates as "tools" then it makes sense to not care about opponenemts frustrations either when playing killer.
it is true, myers has no speed, no anti loop. hes generally a bad killer. thats why tombstone and scratch mirror were the only things that made him viable. playwith your food, tinkerer, corruption and lethal…these perks and tombstone piece is deadly.
thats pvp, we all play our own way.
this is part of description on steam. it even tells you, play as a team OR be selfish. you might not agree with it but i wouldnt say its toxic or anything like that play for myself. Thats one of the only good things about survivor, there is choice in how its played.
Well, the stats do keep track of our stats since, what, 2020? And there's been an uptick in tunneling recently, especially since the last dev update announcing the tunneling/slugging reduction system. That's most likely what these players are referring to. Their 40% escape rate likely happened before this new tunneling wave.
there is also a 30 day stats section, thats why i showed mine as 53% over the past 75 matches (the past 30 days). This might give a more accurate reflection.
Of course... but how many people would post their stats, if they suck? For each player who proudly post his stats, there are several, who don't want to Show theirs.
Exactly this. I have had this average over the past 30 days:
But still, there has been a few matches I have outright yeeted myself out of because they were not fun to play out.
Like that Oni match, if you remember, where I could not catch a break at all.
And of course, the excessive tunneling, and proxycamping is not fun at all to go against.
But when we get chill killers, it is like a night and day difference, and we are all having a ton of fun. If we can meme together, even for a bit, that is a bonus.
killer isnt much better (atleast in my lobbies. EU) its just exhaustion perk x with vigil with windows ds/otr and resi or hope. Meanwhile im here playing myers having to hold W for 30 seconds bc of map design and lack of mobility. Its not fun anymore exhaustion perks need looked at imo. I personnaly dont want to tunnel or proxy but sometimes im forced to do so due to perks that i cannot counter bc im not ghoul/nurse/blight.
Did they ever fix the stats counting survivors abandoning at the end of matches as "escapes"? Because if they haven't, these stats are worthless or would at least skew escape rates much higher.
The official stats tracker still isn’t calculating escape rates correctly, and they can easily be 10% to 15% higher than what a person’s actual escape rate is.
it seems pretty accurate to me, i escape more than i dont which means i have over 50% escape rate. it would work the other way round too. killers with 60% kill rate could be getting 10% to 15% higher than what the actual kill rate is. Obviously stats tracker isnt 100% fool proof, there are times where the killer quits or lets people escape, or survivors go next or dc or even cheaters impact the match for everyone. But as a general basis, my escape rate and kill rates seem to add up correctly based on the outcomes of the matches. As killer i get 3k or 4k pretty often and it reflects in my kill rate. As survivor i escape more than i dont which reflects in my escape rate.
Yes. The survivor escape rates are sometimes inflated, and the killer kill rates are sometimes deflated.
And it’s sad, because I waited so long for an official stat tracker, but it has never worked correctly.
Unrelated to the current conversations happening, but man. These trials are as brutal as ever. The "Complete 20 Trials" Rift challenge is making me wish I had to pull my fingernails out instead.
Edit: I gave up. 😎 Only so much you can do without any hope.
is there evidence of this discrepancy? not saying your lying or anything but you have to see how that could be perceived as survivor bias claiming their stats are higher than they actually are but the killers stats are lower than they actually are to fit their argument that killers are op and survivors cant escape.
I get exhaustion perks because bloodlust is kinda the killer equivalent but I also hate them too. I've been trying to use them myself lately and they're just so lame. My old build came back pretty fast.
You are a wild enigma, I salute you for your resolve
I also don't run exhaustion perks.
My typical build these days is the following: Scene Partner, Botany, Blast Mine and Iron Will
The above two screenshots were taken on the same day. One screenshot is my overall average survivor escape rate for the last 30 days. The other screenshot is my milestone quests.
The official dbd stat tracker had me at an overall 68.75% escape rate, but my actual in-games stats were 34 escapes in 66 games = 51% escape rate.
And yes, I get it that they aren't always counting the same things, but a 17% difference in escape rates, is absolutely ridiculous.
Oh? Interesting build, another for your resolve
so there is evidence to suggest survivor discrepancy although it would depend on when the screenshots were taken. For example there could be an overlap between the start of the milestones and the 30 days…. if milestones started 20 days ago from the screenshot then the stats page would account for all the milestones and the previous days up to 30 days. Play 10 matches a day for 7 days would be 70 matches but there may be more matches taken into account the other weeks in the 30 days. assuming the stats and milestones are only accounting for the 66 matches in a 30 day period, is there evidence to suggest killer stats are deflated?
Oh my god you killer mains are just ridiculous. You act like 90 seconds is 10 seconds. The update is fine as is. Hell I'll be happy they are making it so you don't have to hold a button to recover anymore. Its a good idea. However I do agree they need to do away with the crawl and recover. That's bad. They should make it that it only auto recovers if you're still.
Does one count the games with DC's while the other one doesn't?
The milestones only count completed/progressed challenges. If you DC, it doesn't count anything. I'm not sure if Killer DCs count toward escapes.
The killer stats being deflated is very awkward to prove. I can only compare stats for one side of the game per rift. As in, I was only able to get my true escape rate, because I played zero killer games in that timeframe.
In order to show killer stats are deflated, I would need to screenshot my official stats, then record a game with an problematic scenario and prove it was recorded after the screenshot, then screenshot my official stats after they update, and prove that was the only game I played, and that it's counting the number of kills incorrectly.
I did this when the stat tracker was first released, but it was with screenshots that aren't really good evidence for anyone besides myself. And it didn't look like anyone cared, so I never redid the experiments.
i remember everyone having an issue with inaccurate hours played but that was later revealed to be hours active in a match not hours in game. i usually sit at around 80 to 90% kill rate with myers. i know im not getting higher than that so im not sure how the killer stats could possibly be less than the actual stat. im certainly not getting 95 to 100% kill rate. unless its only inaccurate for some people? for me it seems to add up anyway, both survivor and killer.
If I remember correctly, back when I tested it, the game wasn't counting all survivor deaths as kills. For example, I think if someone was slugged and bled out, it didn't count as a kill, even though the survivor died.
I think there was also weirdness happening with killer abandons, in both scenarios.
But it has been a long time since I tested this. I only know the survivor stats are still broken, because that was recent testing.
I don't ever DC, so I'm not sure if that affects the total number of games milestone.
The stat tracker only counts normal 1v4 games as far as I know.
Limited time modes (like 2v8, Chaos Shuffle etc.), or event game modes are not tracked.
The official stat tracker is not counting all of the kills in 1v4 games
It's almost every single game. Almost every game is the killer proxy camping and tunneling, occasionally slugging, regardless of how far the game has progressed. 5 gens, 4 gens, doesn't matter. First hook gets tunneled. Strong killer that can win without these unfun tactics? Doesn't matter. It's easier for bad players, so it's the path they choose. If the previously proposed changes had gone through, I could fail to escape every game and still have fun. DBD is just incredibly frustrating as survivor right now. It was so disappointing to see every content creator become hyperbolic doomsayers over the patch. BHVR didn't even give it a week of testing before backtracking in what is the most embarrassing display of submissiveness I've ever seen from a dev. I'll probably play only to get the rift done, then maybe occasionally play killer, because anything else is a miserable experience. I remember reading those patch notes and genuinely feeling hopeful for the future of the game.
Finally, after almost a decade, the most unfun aspect of the game was going to be addressed… and this time, not with some bandaid perk that later gets nerfed or outclassed into uselessness. Instead, now it's a maybe sometime in the future thing, and it'll probably be watered down into something that has zero actual impact in preventing these things, while killers retain all the incredibly buffs they would've otherwise received.
Remember, I stopped playing in 2021 and just returned now in 2025. Right now I only play Doctor.
"Killer got 1 step forward and 2 steps back EVERY patch for years."
I mean, some of those steps were gigantic leaps, while the steps back were tweaks to not break it. As an example: basekit addons always came with the original addon being nerfed a similar amount (but the total effect would still be stronger). It's RARE for any killer to actually have been made weaker. Its mostly been "we up their basekit, and tweak their addons accordingly". The biggest offenders in changes back then, was certain killers being blatantly ignored. But no killer got nerfed because survivors complained. Killers got nerfed primarily because of statistics up untill 2020, then based on comments surrounding the killer. Its why Pig recieved so many nerfs. Because despite her lack of lethality against players who understood her power, she simply had the highest average killrate due to headpops. She was statistically the strongest killer in the game.
However, once again, it was RARE that killers actually gained 1 step forward and 2 steps back. But lets assume that was true, lets assume that was fact. Survivors recieved a nerf every single month for YEARS and then had the mechanic be ignored. Killers recieve about 2 perks per year on average that either shake up the meta, creates a solid niche or finally makes a certain killer quite useful.
Survivors recieve barely 1 perk every 2 years on average like that. And the few times it does have a significant impact in meta change, it gets nerfed. Boons were meant to shake up the meta forever, that someone was always willing to bring a boon. 7 nerfs later, barely anyone uses boons. People still use hexes quite often, but boons?
Just as a comparison, I will make a list, first pick is going to be the most recent perk added post-2020(aka, when statistic based changes were no longer the main reason why things got changed) to the meta I can find, then I go down the list for next most recent untill pickrate is less than 5%:
Survivors:
Finesse - 15.5% pickrate - July 16, 2024
Off The Record - 6.35% pickrate - March 10, 2020
The next would be Dramaturgy - 4.21% pickrate - July 25, 2023
Not even 3 perks released since 2020 have had a pickrate higher than 5%
Killers:
Pain Resonance - 30.5% pickrate - November 13, 2021
Lethal Pursuer - 15.7% pickrate - June 15, 2021
Dead Man Switch - 15.2% pickrate - March 10, 2020
Nowhere To Hide - 14.4% pickrate - November 22, 2022
Deadlock - 8.12% pickrate - September 7, 2021
Grim Embrace - 7.9% pickrate - November 30, 2021
Eruption - 7.4% pickrate - June 15, 2021
Friends 'Til the End - 5.58% pickrate - November 28, 2023
No Way Out - 5.14% pickrate - March 30, 2021
The next would be Hex: Plaything - 4.26% pickrate - September 7, 2021
With, generally speaking, 12 perks being added per year per side, killers can expect 15% of those perks to enter the meta. Survivors can expect at best 5% to enter the meta.
AKA, Killers get 2 perks on average per year that shake up the meta. Survivors get 1 usable perk every 2 years.
And yeah, ofcourse, sometimes perks absolutely destroyed the meta to a point of it getting adjusted/gutted within 2-3 months, but even if we compare there from 2020-2025, but I will add in clarification if the perk/combination is still commonly used today:
Survivors:
Made for This
Buckle Up+For The People
Boil Over (but only really on old RPD)
Circle of Healing+other healing perks (many different iterations, but most recently a full team running Circle+WGLF in 2023)
Background Player (multiple listings)
Blastmine (2022)
Soulguard+WGLF
Killers:
Weave Attunement+Franklins Demise
Ultimate Weapon (2023)
Call of Brine+Overcharge
Pentimento (2024)
Pain Res+Merciless Storm(I think 2023, only lasted 2 weeks)
Pain Res originally
Pain Res DMS (multiple listings, including the current iteration)
Starstruck+Awakened Awareness Nurse(untill 2023? I forgot when they turned her post-blink into an m2)
Undying+Ruin (2020)
Any skillcheck related build with Lullaby (2020-2023)
Hoarder (Pinhead, Wesker)
Knockout
Eruption (2023)
Thanatophobia (the one patch where everyone used it, not just Legion and Plague)
Those are all the game breaking ones I can remember, I wasnt going to include addon based builds because then the list would get a lot more complex. The only reason Hoarder got an exception was because it legit was meta to play Pinhead or Wesker with Hoarder. And while I personally do feel like I should include other meta's that were also broken but dont reach this because its not perk based (like Sadako+STBFL+Everyone spawning with a tape so she gets a free kill at 4 gens), especially because I included Soulguard+WGLF which didnt exactly appear that often despite how broken it was, those werent exactly perk-related.
So even without those, killers still have had more gamebreaking meta's.
So unless you can give exact examples where killers went 1 step forward, 2 steps back, let me slap you back with the "Your opinion is not the truth, and mine is not a lie.". Because I ACTUALLY did the research to fact check myself. In fact, up untill 2023 I would have agreed that killers got the short end of the stick in patches, untill I started comparing notes. Survivors have only recieved nett-nerfs the first 5 years of the game. Killers have seen net-buffs consistently every single year unless their name was Sally Smithson or Amanda Young. In fact, Billy's rework was the first change that resulted in a net-nerf.
Some bugfixes did end up nerfing some killers, but if we count bugfixes as a nerf, then you should consider every single time a survivor could climb on top of a rock a nerf too.
Oh, my dude. Killers can literally win the game at any point in the game. Killers have basekit second chance:
1. cant mindgame or loop a tile properly? Dont worry, that pesky window will get blocked if you fail your mindgame 3 times.
2. dont know when to break a pallet? No worries, after 15 seconds of chase with no hits or ability usage you get a 5% speedboost, and after another 15 seconds, we'll double it to 10%
3. You miss your ability? No worries, you can try again over and over and over again.
4. Survivors hiding for a bit so they can wait out a slug and survive? No worries, you will get a notification where they are exactly. You afk facecamping the survivor? No worries, you will never be shown to the survivors.
5. Generators regressing is technically second chance, it wasnt originally in the game.
6. The fact that perks like DS and OTR get disabled after gens are gone is 2nd chance. You dont see No Way Out disabled once hatch is closed, despite it literally doing the exact same thing for killers as DS does for survivors?
7. The fact that 2 survivors on 1 gen dont finish it in 45 seconds, but 54 seconds is also in the realm of 2nd chances.
I could go on. Slugging is 2nd chance. Tunnelling can be argued to be 2nd chance if you consider basekit bt to also be 2nd chance. There are protective measures against certain behaviours. You call that 2nd chance for survivors, yet "balance" for killers.
The comment about Twins was added, because her rework has been in the works since january 2022. She is still on the rework list. She needs one anyway, regardless of what happens to slugging. And Slugging has needed an overhaul since 2020.
Its not an invalidation, its more that Twins has been invalidated already (again, its been 3 years, her rework was considered high priority), so what's another 3-4 months?
And at this point, no one cared about certain changes making survivor builds or perks absolutely useless. Do you realize how many things are actually invalidated? Flashlights alone are extremely invalidated. There was an addon rework for items, yet 65% of flashlight addons do the exact same thing that has had no use for YEARS: Increases brightness by X%. In fact, Odd Bulb has the downside of battery depletion because of the brightness being increased.
What does increasing the brightness do, you may ask? Well, back in 2017, brightness increased blindness speed. Since 2017, its only a cosmetic change. So the ONLY real thing the Odd Bulb does is Increasing Blindness Duration by 25%, at the cost of 14% depletion increase
You know what other addons increase blindness duration with NO downside?
Broken Bulb - 30%
High End Sapphire Lens - 15%
Intense Halogen - 20%
TIR Optic - 15%
Focus Lens - 10%
Power Bulb - 10%
Out of 14 flashlight addons, 50% of them increase blindness duration. And the most expensive addon is the worst one.
And then, it gets worse, because Lightborn was made from 80% blindness resistance, to blindness immunity. Invalidating the existance of an entire item.
All this to say, sometimes, some aspects of the game get screwed over for the objective long term health for the game. Keeping the 3 Twins mains happy doesnt matter if it means losing an entire playerbase instead. Slugging is unhealthy in its current state. Twins cannot exist without slugging in its current state. Twins is in need of a rework anyway regardless of slugging changes, so her aspect doesnt matter as a counter argument. She would only get better because of it
"Which wastes my time even more, which is not really good when my slugging is under time limit."
The time limit is 90 seconds. At worst, that means that by the time you down the last survivor, it's been 45 seconds since you slugged the first survivor, assuming you slug them the first instance of your power instantly.
You hook the survivor you downed most recently, they are there anyway, you hook the second one downed. That's 2 survivors hooked and now you have 2 slugged survivors who you cannot find. But you have legit another 30 seconds before the first survivor can pick themselves up, 35-40 seconds before the second can, so you look 25 seconds in a 50 meter radius where you slugged the 2nd survivor. That's 3 survivors hooked before the 1st survivor can pick themselves up.
What time is wasted? Even if survivors couldnt move, you would still have 3 survivors hooked and 1 picking themselves up.
90 seconds is a LONG time, its even a longer time if you can do nothing. Oni wont really get affected as much as you think. And while Oni definitely needs tweaks, all you need is Infectious Fright and you would get constant info on where survivors are anyway.
almost everything you said isnt 2nd chance. bloodlust for example isnt 2nd chance, it stops god loops which are impossible to catch survivors at.
killer powers being used over and over? really? thats like saying a survivor can be chased off a gen but they can always go back on it after they lose the killer.
like i said, almost all of what you said are not 2nd chances at all and not even remotely comparable. bare in mind the killer is 1 person and has no team. 2nd chances are things that enable the person to lose the match and then get a 2nd chance to win. in the instance of survivors…. the hatch. they can fail at their objective (gens) and still escape through hatch. they fail at finding the hatch first, they can still win by using a key.
Thats why i said killer only really has noed as 2nd chance because that perk lets a killer lose the match with 0 hooks and all gens done but still pull off a 4k. At best, the egc disabling the anti camp for a hooked survivor might be considered 2nd chance to get 1k but thats still a loss for the killer. but when killer fails to kill before the survivors escape, there is no 2nd chance for the killer to pick up a kill. survivors can fail their objective multiple times and still win.
What people dont seem to realise, killer and survivor are very different. comparing killer and survivor is like saying "killer can eliminate me, why cant i eliminate the killer?" answer is "because your survivor….not killer"
Based on your odd comparison, every swing a killer misses with their m1 attack is considered 2nd chance which simply isnt the case because they may have failed to land the hit but they havnt failed the match. Thats the key difference. just like hatch. survivors can all be hooked. at that point they lost the match, no one to help them unhook. but people want a way to comeback from that loss scenario. survivors all slugged, they lost, there is no way they can get themselves up but they want a way to heal themselves after losing the match which is crazy. They even had abandon option for such slugging cases, this is because the match is over, survivors lose, move on but abandon isnt good enough anymore, they want another way to win after losing.
DS isnt second chance, it stops giving killers free hooks when survivors have 0 agency in their unhook.
"2nd chances are things that enable the person to lose the match and then get a 2nd chance to win."
The killer can legit go from 0 hooks to 4 kills at any point in the game. You can legit lose the match as a killer, and still win.
You as a killer can fail at your objective by consistently losing, and then still win.
And hatch isnt second chance, hatch was added as a legitimate way of escape. DBD isnt exactly 1v4. It can be 1v(1v1). If its between myself and a teammate, I can decide to screw the teammate over for hatch. That is me actively causing a teammate to die, to get an escape.
On top of that, even if you get hatch, its not a win. MMR-wise, its a draw. Game-wise, 3 kills is still a loss for survivors. Not a win.
Again, killers can go from 0 hooks to 4 kills at any point in theory. I've had games where I could barely lay hands on anyone for 4 gens, and then suddenly got 3 of them downed and hooked in basement. I've never had games where I got 6 hooks early on and then ended up losing. Killer second chance is so cooked into the core of the game, that you dont even realize it.
And yes, bloodlust is second chance, there is not a single god loop in the game. And if you cannot catch that 1 survivor because they are actively outplaying you, then maybe go for a different survivor, instead of waiting for your second chance basekit to activate so you can unfairly catch a survivor who is actively outplaying you?
"but when killer fails to kill before the survivors escape, there is no 2nd chance for the killer to pick up a kill"
When a survivor unhooks, the killer can hit them and hooktrade. They get a second chance to have someone on the hook.
"At best, the egc disabling the anti camp for a hooked survivor might be considered 2nd chance to get 1k but thats still a loss for the killer"
So, anti-camp disable "might be" 2nd chance, but it doesnt matter because its still a loss for the killer. But hatch IS 2nd chance, despite it being a loss for survivors? Great bias dude.
"but people want a way to comeback from that loss scenario"
They actively removed the self-unhook action. And thats not even a second chance thing.
"survivors all slugged, they lost"
Why tho? They havent been hooked yet. You havent hooked them yet. When all 5 gens are gone, should you lose the ability to down? Gens are gone, you lost.