Wolf65
Wolf65
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001042#Comment_4001042
"Killer got 1 step forward and 2 steps back EVERY patch for years."
I mean, some of those steps were gigantic leaps, while the steps back were tweaks to not break it. As an example: basekit addons always came with the original addon being nerfed a similar amount (but the total effect would still be stronger). It's RARE for any killer to actually have been made weaker. Its mostly been "we up their basekit, and tweak their addons accordingly". The biggest offenders in changes back then, was certain killers being blatantly ignored. But no killer got nerfed because survivors complained. Killers got nerfed primarily because of statistics up untill 2020, then based on comments surrounding the killer. Its why Pig recieved so many nerfs. Because despite her lack of lethality against players who understood her power, she simply had the highest average killrate due to headpops. She was statistically the strongest killer in the game.
However, once again, it was RARE that killers actually gained 1 step forward and 2 steps back. But lets assume that was true, lets assume that was fact. Survivors recieved a nerf every single month for YEARS and then had the mechanic be ignored. Killers recieve about 2 perks per year on average that either shake up the meta, creates a solid niche or finally makes a certain killer quite useful.
Survivors recieve barely 1 perk every 2 years on average like that. And the few times it does have a significant impact in meta change, it gets nerfed. Boons were meant to shake up the meta forever, that someone was always willing to bring a boon. 7 nerfs later, barely anyone uses boons. People still use hexes quite often, but boons?
Just as a comparison, I will make a list, first pick is going to be the most recent perk added post-2020(aka, when statistic based changes were no longer the main reason why things got changed) to the meta I can find, then I go down the list for next most recent untill pickrate is less than 5%:
Survivors:
Finesse - 15.5% pickrate - July 16, 2024
Off The Record - 6.35% pickrate - March 10, 2020
The next would be Dramaturgy - 4.21% pickrate - July 25, 2023
Not even 3 perks released since 2020 have had a pickrate higher than 5%
Killers:
Pain Resonance - 30.5% pickrate - November 13, 2021
Lethal Pursuer - 15.7% pickrate - June 15, 2021
Dead Man Switch - 15.2% pickrate - March 10, 2020
Nowhere To Hide - 14.4% pickrate - November 22, 2022
Deadlock - 8.12% pickrate - September 7, 2021
Grim Embrace - 7.9% pickrate - November 30, 2021
Eruption - 7.4% pickrate - June 15, 2021
Friends 'Til the End - 5.58% pickrate - November 28, 2023
No Way Out - 5.14% pickrate - March 30, 2021
The next would be Hex: Plaything - 4.26% pickrate - September 7, 2021
With, generally speaking, 12 perks being added per year per side, killers can expect 15% of those perks to enter the meta. Survivors can expect at best 5% to enter the meta.
AKA, Killers get 2 perks on average per year that shake up the meta. Survivors get 1 usable perk every 2 years.
And yeah, ofcourse, sometimes perks absolutely destroyed the meta to a point of it getting adjusted/gutted within 2-3 months, but even if we compare there from 2020-2025, but I will add in clarification if the perk/combination is still commonly used today:
Survivors:
Made for This
Buckle Up+For The People
Boil Over (but only really on old RPD)
Circle of Healing+other healing perks (many different iterations, but most recently a full team running Circle+WGLF in 2023)
Background Player (multiple listings)
Blastmine (2022)
Soulguard+WGLF
Killers:
Weave Attunement+Franklins Demise
Ultimate Weapon (2023)
Call of Brine+Overcharge
Pentimento (2024)
Pain Res+Merciless Storm(I think 2023, only lasted 2 weeks)
Pain Res originally
Pain Res DMS (multiple listings, including the current iteration)
Starstruck+Awakened Awareness Nurse(untill 2023? I forgot when they turned her post-blink into an m2)
Undying+Ruin (2020)
Any skillcheck related build with Lullaby (2020-2023)
Hoarder (Pinhead, Wesker)
Knockout
Eruption (2023)
Thanatophobia (the one patch where everyone used it, not just Legion and Plague)
Those are all the game breaking ones I can remember, I wasnt going to include addon based builds because then the list would get a lot more complex. The only reason Hoarder got an exception was because it legit was meta to play Pinhead or Wesker with Hoarder. And while I personally do feel like I should include other meta's that were also broken but dont reach this because its not perk based (like Sadako+STBFL+Everyone spawning with a tape so she gets a free kill at 4 gens), especially because I included Soulguard+WGLF which didnt exactly appear that often despite how broken it was, those werent exactly perk-related.
So even without those, killers still have had more gamebreaking meta's.
So unless you can give exact examples where killers went 1 step forward, 2 steps back, let me slap you back with the "Your opinion is not the truth, and mine is not a lie.". Because I ACTUALLY did the research to fact check myself. In fact, up untill 2023 I would have agreed that killers got the short end of the stick in patches, untill I started comparing notes. Survivors have only recieved nett-nerfs the first 5 years of the game. Killers have seen net-buffs consistently every single year unless their name was Sally Smithson or Amanda Young. In fact, Billy's rework was the first change that resulted in a net-nerf.
Some bugfixes did end up nerfing some killers, but if we count bugfixes as a nerf, then you should consider every single time a survivor could climb on top of a rock a nerf too.Dude, serious, stop missing the point on purpose. I am talking about 2016 to 2021. That was the time killer got nerfed EVERY patch, until the point, that so many killer mains quit, that they had to change direction. Now FOUR years later, killer got back into a half way decent spot again, but a lot of the shenanigans from back in the days i still up and running. Some core mechanics are still messed and could be fixed easyly. Looping? Just bring the collisionboxes from killer and survivor closer to each other. You got reduce the effect of bloodlst accordingly. Unfortunatly, they already tied other mechanics to bloodlust, so you can't get rid of it all together. And don't let me get started about the bugs,that became features. The game as issues with the playerbase, because to many survivor are crybabies. They start playing a "asymetrical horror survival game" and exoect to win 1v1 against the powerrole or to escape more often than not. All that nonesense is fake news. During that time, I watched every dev stream, read all patch notes, check all the major youtuber and nothings first with your claims.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003182#Comment_4003182
That's… incredibly unhealthy for the game. Brand new MMR is something that's only for new players for good reason because most skills you learn as a killer transfer to another and you would curb stomp any new survivors. If I buy a new survivor should I get to go against baby killers? This is the most terrible idea I've seen on the forums in a long time.
You can't seriously compare playing a new survivor to playing a new killer. Sorry, but no sorry...survivors are just skins, unlike killers.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002880#Comment_4002880
They do that already, while it does not fully reset your MMR it does essentially lower your MMR. Which is fair since, even if you play a basic M1 killer with no power you will stomp baby survivors.
I dont talk about lowering my MMR. I mean a complete different MMR for every killer. For example, I am realy bad at playing the Huntress and pretty good with Doctor, so it doesn't cut it for me to just lower my main MMR from Doctor. I am worlds apart comparing my skills as these killer. (I am also one of the really bad Nurses.)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003041#Comment_4003041
If the killer's attack is changed before hit validation, then it's auto-aim. If the killer's attack is changed after hit validation, then it's aim dressing.
Also, "aim dressing" can technically auto-aim an attack, because it is disconnected from hit validation. For example, if a survivor is next to the killer, and slightly too far right for a short M1 attack to hit, the proximity checks from "aim dressing" might think the survivor is "close enough", and yank the killer's camera to the right, and then short M1 attack. And since "aim dressing" yanked the camera to the right, the short M1 attack hits.
The basic idea is because the proximity checks are disconnected from hit validation, "aim dressing" can both steal attacks from the killer, and give attacks to the killer.
My dated memory of this, was it only "yanked" the killer after the hit check. But my personal experience was, that my weapon got missaligned with objects. The classicsurvivor vaults a window, I thought, it should be a clear it, but I got a bonk on the windowframe. So still have issue wirh it being called "auto-aim", when in my experience it rarely benefits me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002894#Comment_4002894
This game functionally has auto-aim, but BHVR wants to call it aim dressing, even though that is an invalid word choice.
“Aim dressing” forcibly changes killer attacks before hit validation, which is exactly what an auto aim mechanic does.
Which is basically not "auti aim", because true auto-aim would HELP me hit my target, which this is not. So why call it auto-aim?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002318#Comment_4002318
i think thats the link to get stats from 2020 onwards. i wouldnt say im a top killer by far and im worse survivor. i just put a lot of time into both roles and learnt the counter play from both perspectives.
Remember, I stopped playing in 2021 and just returned now in 2025. Right now I only play Doctor.
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Without that penalty DCs could be faked and abused easy.
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There is an auto-aim in the game? Isn't that an urban legend?
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@ImWinston said:
- Devs have been saying for at least 3-4 years that they want "to favor" killers, I don't think it's a secret to anyone. The example of the fog vials literally shocked me.🤣 Killers complained and the fog vials were destroyed within 7 days🤣I literally haven't had time to try the fog vials as they were originally intended.
I keft the game 4 years ago, because the Devs favored survivor so hard, i was unbearable. I hope your right about the new and better tumrs.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
I keep telling everyone. Killers are insanely broken but they don't want to accept it. But they just keep on buffing killers. Its especially hard in solo q. Just a big camp/tunnel/slug fest. But survivors soon will be getting much needed help via update.
Broken? Yea, but not the way you thing.
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@Roaroftime said:
Why am I getting 4 man SWF's and sweats when I'm literally playing a new killer for the VERY first time? Please sort out your match making system because it's really difficult to learn new killers powers in itself without having to contend with the most toxic sweaty 4 man SWF t bagging you and constantly blinding you. I now don't want to play nor learn this killer because I've had such a bad experience he feels clunky and weak it's ruined the idea of playing him in its entirety. Please just make MMR medium-low when starting a new killer to make the learning experience more pleasant, especially for new players who might have just spent money on the killer then regret it.
Give each killer a player uses, a separate MMR. Of course I am better playing my main, but Inused to enjoy switching between killer. But I can't pöay against the same MMR. I think it'sboring, that I am stuck to one killer.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002240#Comment_4002240
I don’t think a soul would care if he got changed a very boring killer
I would care, because I was a Trapper main back in the days.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002688#Comment_4002688
Tbf, if you compare it. S tier killers are like the sweaty SWF groups. If you bring up one it allows the right to compare using the other.
Sorry, but that take is ...erm... wrong. Two wrongs don't make one right. I don’t play S Tier killer, so why should I accept op SWF groups? Most game mechanics are balanced around low skill survivor and high skill killer. So in low rank the killer is strong and in high rank it flips to survivor.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002613#Comment_4002613
Yeah, usually in this context it's as you said 0-1k loss, 2k draw, 3-4k win.
Personally it can be different for both killers and survivors. It's like if outcome of the match is worse/better than expected.
SoloQ? If we finish gens and anyone get out I consider it to be win.
full SWF? 2 or less escapes is loss.
Blight/Nurse? Anyone escaped with finished gens is loss for me.
Lower tier killers is where I would consider 3k+ as win.Again… I really hate this. Comparing S Tier killer with "regular killer". I don't like to play Nurse or Blight. I just physically do not enjoy playing them. I actually get sick from playing Nurse. And I do not own any killer past Twins. So complaining about any of those killers and claiming killer in general are to easy, because those special killers are to stronk, is rubbing me the wrong way.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
50/50 would mean killer is mostly losing. Basically kill rate and win rate is something different.
Two killers can have same kill rate, but have different win rates, because it depends on their expected outcome of the match for loss/win.
Some killers are really good at securing 1k, so their kill rate is going to be higher, but it's still a loss.
Also mobility killers are more likely to get 4k, because they have easier time to find hatch/defend gate.
50/50 would make sense for win rate, not kill rate. I think 50% win rate was in real statistics equal to 57.5% +/- .And what is a "win" you?
To me: Survivor win = I escaped (I don't care how many other made it out, survivor win individually)
Killer:
0-1K = loss
2K = draw
3+K = win
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002304#Comment_4002304
There are a bunch of people in this forum with numbers in that range. They've posted their stats.
Of course... but how many people would post their stats, if they suck? For each player who proudly post his stats, there are several, who don't want to Show theirs.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002304#Comment_4002304
to prove im unbiased i feel compelled to say… i have 80% kill rate with myers…however i dont complain about gen speeds when i play myers.
Where do I get that stats for me? And even if you are that good, it's not about top killer, but what about the fun of average killer? It's always abotu "the fun of average survivors". Btw… I consider myself an about average killer, but I never had real stats for that, that's why I ask, where you got them from.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002292#Comment_4002292
People with 80%+ kill rates complain about gen rushing.
Are you really going to try and claim that because the devs are hitting their arbitrary statistics goals on average that the game is somehow perfect for everyone?
C'mon now.
Who are those people with 80%+ kill rates and where do you get those number from?
Sounds unrealistic for me.
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@Filipino1490 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002240#Comment_4002240
yes the trappper definetly needs big adjustments but i feel like demo dindn"T got a lot of changes unlike trapper so i think he could wait but i understand
Do you think, that Trapper is a viable killer atm?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002165#Comment_4002165
The reason AFK crows were nerfed was because they punished normal Survivor gameplay, just like the tunneling and slugging reduction punished normal Killer gameplay.
For example, did we need to search the entire map to cleanse Devour Hope? Get AFK crows. And what about when No Way Out had maximum stacks? There's nothing to do in that scenario but hide and wait it out. And yet we'd get AFK crows.
Did they change the mechanic? When I played survivor (before my retunr now), you did not get crows, if you at least moved just a little bit. Crouched in cover, just sway a little left to right and you#ve been safe. Did that change? and if so, instead of fixing it, they removed it completely (killer nerf)??
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002238#Comment_4002238
Except killers can win just fine without tunnelling, but survivors literally cannot win if gens take longer than kills.
What is a killer "win" for you? What is it that they achieve "just fine"?
I still believe gen time is still faster, as killers can chase. N8t regarding S Tier killer. I hate playing Nurse or Blight and I suck with Billys chainsaw.
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I think the Trapper deserves some love first.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002192#Comment_4002192
You're essentially describing genrush as 'the ability for survivors to win the game'.
That is not going to get 'fixed'.
Yes, it is the "win" for the survivor, but this needs a balance. With your logic tunneling is no issue, because chasing is 'the ability for killer to win the game'. Same logic? Are you happy with that?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002192#Comment_4002192
So, I'm getting whiplash from your inconsistencies.
Because within the span of just this one thread, you're claiming here that "gen rushing" is literally anything that helps get gens done (despite that not being what it's ever meant).
And yet, when it comes to "face camping" you in this same thread want to hold tightly to the strictest definition from 7 years ago.
I've never seen bias so strong that it actually interferes with coherence before.
There is no inconsistencies. That's the same definition of gen rush, I am using for years. If gens fly by, while chases take ages, the balance is tilted towards the survivor. 4 years ago, it was at my personal experience peak. That's why I stopped playing. I will see, if it improved consistently.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001992#Comment_4001992
Because tunneling is incredibly common and genuine bully squads aren't. People toss the term around the same way they do with "gen rushing." SWF with skills aren't a bully squad. I can't remember the last time I even saw an actual bully squad. Yet I was tunneled yesterday. And the day before that. And the day before that.
"Tunneling" is playing the killers objective. How is bullying part of the survivors objective?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001982#Comment_4001982
Sure, but how is that the fault of the person being unhooked? They have no control. The team is not a hive mind, they're individuals. I'm not going to target one person because another screwed them over.
But you can't ask for safety nets for every bad gameplay decision. If someone of the team is making a bad play, the team takes consequences, one way or another. But you ask to take away th killers chance to benefit from their mistake. Is that fair for killer? It's like I would ask, that a random survivor is teleported on a hook, when all gens pop, before I got a K. Killer do not get extra chances, why do survivors get them?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001957#Comment_4001957
People still say "gen rush" even though it goes back to when BNPs were crazy strong. They've been nerfed, gen completion times went up, and teams with full gen builds are rare. Yet I still hear this term daily. The terminology stays but the definitions change.
No. Gen ruah is the missmatch between the time it needs to get gens done and the time it takes do get kills. Gen rush is not only about repair perks and tools. Every 2nd chance perk, that prolongs chases or give you rescue, like DS, are part of gen rush.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001954#Comment_4001954
If the unhooker is making a desperate trade, they might be injured already. Or they might get hit during the save, making them let go, and then manage on the second try, but then go down immediately. That happens pretty regularly in both my survivor and killler matches.
If that happens to you regularly… you might consider… just maybe… survivors play STUPID!
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001957#Comment_4001957
Camping while standing in the person on hook's face is pretty self explanatory.
I've always called "standing at the hook watching someone die" a "giant waste of the killer's time", but that hasn't stuck.
Semantics is a pretty terrible argument. Especially since you're just going with "if I go back 7 years, I can define the problem out of existence and ignore any current or relevant actions". It's, at minimum, tone deaf, and feels like a disingenuous attempt to derail the conversation.
Nope. You just keep sticking to your combat term and move the goal post. And "face camping" has always been a stupid strategy unless, the survivors played STUPID. If a killer is camping the hook, just punch gens. Any camper getting more than 1K, is bad plays by the survivors. Stop blaming killer,.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001878#Comment_4001878
Strange then, that many years later they added a literal "Anti FACE Camp" mechanic. That people have been very, very specific since it's inception that it is designed specifically and only to combat face camping, and literally no other purpose.
I won't deny that the definition of "face" camping has shifted over the years, from what you describe by denying the only single unhook spot, to simply standing nose to nose with the survivor (or hitting on hook). But you can still hit people on hook for the full duration and their only option is to jump off hook into getting immediately hit right now, on live.
Than call it something else. "Shifting the definition" is like moving the goal post.
"We want A removed."
"Ok, we removed A."
"We want A removed."
"We already removed A."
"No, A has changed, so we want it removed, again."
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001797#Comment_4001797
I'm saying the unhooker goes down at the feet of the unhooked. A trade. No chase. That gives the only unhooked a few seconds of space. You'll catch up to them almost immediately, you just don't have to count to ten anymore.
And yeah, I guess i think people are "entitled" to a moment to reorientate because I don't do it as killer. Unless that person does something stupid like try to sabo or hop right back on a gen instead of leaving, I just go after someone else while they run off to heal.
So your unhooker was already injured? Or do you asume every killer can insta down?
And no, they should be on the edge of their seat, ready to react right awaya after the unhook. All this baby caring sucks. I already hated it, when they came up with "invu frames" until the survivor gained control. Now they are even got extra protection with Endurance and for crying out loud: is it true, that the Devs removed the grab option while unhooking??
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https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001809#Comment_4001809
Facecamping was when killer could block the unhook. Their hitbox blocked it. They could go afk and still no unhook possible. That was removed.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001475#Comment_4001475
If someone goes down performing an unhook, you toss them on that hook, and then immediately follow the still-visible trail of the recently unhooked survivor, you are still tunneling them. You just got a bonus in between. It would be no different if you slugged or ignored the other person instead.
Wait a minute...what?? That is insane. Killer goes for the unhooker, downs him and hooks him and starts chasing the unhooked and you call that TUNNELING?? He ignored the unhooked, chased and hooked rhe unhooker so fast, that your trails are still visible?? And you call that "tunneling"? That's entitlement galore. So the killer is not allowed to go for the unhooked and not for the unhooker? So what is the killer supposed to do?
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Trapper ia to weak. Period. He needs permanent buffs. No obscure things like "if the map is big" or "in certain MMR". His basekit is outtdated. Wasting tume collecting traps to be able to use your basekit power is stupid. Give him a permanent Trapper Sack to begin with.
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Trapper ia to weak. Period. He needs permanent buffs. No obscure things like "if the map is big" or "in certain MMR". His basekit is outtdated. Wasting tume collecting traps to be able to use your basekit power is stupid. Give him a permanent Trapper Sack to begin with.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
As A player do you like or hate those perks?
Personally I dislike when I use them, but I realize its a necessity(let's be honest, if you can roughly doing 2 gens as a team in by the time it takes killer to get one hook.. it kinda feels rough for the killer)
I hear people, more so those whom are on the receiving end of regression, do not llke them.
Is it specifically the repetition of the perks usage. Or another reason?
They ar needed. I would like to run different perks, but gen speed is just to fast without them.
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@coolgue1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001539#Comment_4001539
u are abusing the mechanic to gain an in game advantage to get a 4k when u slugg someone and then go for the 4 person sure if they are on top of each other don't really matter but 99% of the time that not how it used it slug #1 and hunt for #2 for 4 Minutes that legit the definition of abusing a mechanic to gain an in game advantage because u are purposefully making the hatch not spawn it a work around the entire mechanic so u don't have to deal with it that what killer want a way around the mechanic BHVR is going to put in place
That's not an "abuse". It is using the literal mechanic. Don't forget, the hatch is already an extra chance for the last survivor to escape , even when the team already Fd up. It's a mercy mechanic.
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@coolgue1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001500#Comment_4001500
Because it would make the system completely useless u can't give wiggle room that can be abuse if they want to truly stop it, look at hatch for an prime example it abused in 90% of game to stop it from spawning
What does the number of hooks have to do with the hatch?
The hatch apears after 3K. That's the rule. So if 2 still alive = not hatch, no "abuse".
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001475#Comment_4001475
And this is why they should stick to the 6 hook requirement and not lower it!
Your answer does not make any sense. Why should 6 hooks be alright? Why go any gigher than 4?
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001113#Comment_4001113
And in an asymetrical game, the non power role/team should not be able to bully the power role.So basically, this is how you are telling survivors they should play the game. A rulebook.
And in a game that is balanced around a team that is not on voice chat, SWF on voice chat are a problem, because than, the killer and solo survivor are to weak. If there is voice chat, the game needs to be balanced for it.If there is tunneling, the game needs to be balanced around it. Say, by giving the survivors a gen boost unless the killer achieves a certain number of hooks before an elimination.
Everyone being able to get up from dying by themself is against the spirit of the team needing each other against the powerrole.The killer being able to focus on a single target where everyone else just sits on generators is against the spirit of being survivors.
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You're just saying 'these examples I like, so they don't count'. Except you're trying to turn it into some massive us vs them issue when its much more 'is X good or bad for the game' type discussions.
You don't get it. You refuse the core concept of an asymetrical pvp game. If you don't like it anyway, why do you play it to beginn with?
The powerrole needs to be powerful, because he goes up against 4. Which should make it impossible for the team to bully him. That's not a code of conduct, it is the core of the gamedesign.
Tunneling or not is not 100% in control of the killer. Should I have to play around it on purpose? What if I stumble over the same survivor all the time? Why do I have to do the micromanagement of whom did I hunt last? Possibly with same character with the same clothing? Why should that micromanagement pushed on me? Being killer is already stressful enough. And it would be easy to get punished for something that happend by accident.
The "spirit of survivors" is not by nature altruistic. Every survivor tries to escape for themselves. Altruism is an option -call it a strategy, if you think it's more beneficial to you, if you help-, not mandatory. See? You has a human player, can deciede to do it, or not. The same choice should be given to another human player, that just so happens to play the killer.
I can try to rephrase it for you multiple times, but I do not WANT to understand it anyway. Most likely, you already have, but talk back anyway, to punch you will through.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001027#Comment_4001027
There's a rulebook for both sides. As @Firellius said, a lot of it has gotten removed the last 3 years but you still have things Killers complain about in equal measure. Think of any reason why Killers would camp/slug/tunnel and there you go.
I don't believe you. What is the "rulebook" for survivor? I don't think that is a real thing.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001124#Comment_4001124
Gen rushing in modern dbd would be if a whole team brought BNPs and wire spools in Commodious toolboxes along with gen speed perks. I don't think I've ever once seen this happen. Almost everyone brings exhaustion and second chance.
And I'm a killer that follows the rule book. If you play both sides regularly, you understand how much it sucks to be slugged or tunneled by low-skill killers who don't want to engage with full gameplay, they just want cheap and easy wins. There's nothing survivors can do to similarly incapacitate a killer.
Gen rush is not just that. If you lose several gens before you even get a single hook, your in trouble. We have so many 2nd chance perks and loop/chase extension perks -plus still insane pallet density-, that it's not about the toolboxes. It's about the time it takes to get a down and hook, compared to gens being done in general. No BNPs needed.
I do not play both sides equally. I am a killer main and I don't lie about it (like so many survivor mains do). I play solo and we all know, that solo survivor is miserable compared to full SWF on coms. When I play survivor, I play immersive. I suck in chases and don't want to get chased. I sneak, repair, safe, heal mates.
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The Trapper should have the Trapper Sack be part of his base kit and all survivor getting injured by the bear trap should get the Hindered status effect, plus if an injured player steps into a bear trap, he should go into dying. Don't forget to give all maps a rework with more ways to properly hide the traps.
all that from an OG Trapper main.
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Killer Main.jpg@BigStan said:
I'm a killer main and I've seen the backlash about the anti tunnel, slugging, and camping systems. And how it's too hard to 4k. It's not. 4Ks are too easy. I'm a killer main with 2200 hours and you absolutely do not need to play so selfishly to win. My playstyle already adhered to the changes so it was just a free buff for me. I make sure survivors have fun too. There's too much power on our side to play with poor sportsmanlike conduct and not enough people willing to look past their own results to ensure everyone in the match has a good time. That's why we NEED these systems. It's just human nature.
It is not fun to be tunneled out at the start of the game and be forced to sit there, unable to play with your friends, but stuck watching the match instead of moving on to the next game because it's the only way to continue playing with your friends. Downtime is the absolute worst thing you can have in a game. Killers need to think about the survivors too. There's more to it than just getting a 4K. You need to get it without spoiling the survivor's right to have a good time too. These systems are trying to fix a glaring flaw in the game's design that's been around since the beginning.
When I play killer, I usually don't even kill anyone. I get my eight hooks and then let them escape. I usually do it with 4 or 5 gens remaining. I main Daddy Myers and most matches I don't even use Tier III and I use the weakest addons I still have. I literally afk at the exit gate and wait for it to be powered so I can open it and scoot them along to next game. I don't camp or tunnel, at all. I do not use gen regression perks. If I need someone to stop progressing the gens while working on my eight hooks, but they have already been hooked twice, then I slug. I even try to make sure no more than two are hooked at a time so the survivors don't get left to die on hook.
I'm not expecting anyone to go this far by any means. I get you want to win, but I promise you that you do NOT need to use such scummy tactics to do it. It's just too easy to 4K that there's no excuse for having some consideration for the other players playing the same game.
Survivors still kill themselves all the time, btw. They fail to hook, or get each mad at each other, or DC to become a bot which I then kill. I admit, I will kill someone if they are proving to be a bad actor, but that's just to protect the fun of the other three playing. You can't go higher than Gold I w/o killing btw.
No one likes being nerfed or the game being forced to be harder, but it truly is needed. Please try to keep the survivors' experience in mind and just get use to the much needed changes. Thank you.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001027#Comment_4001027
Killer players complain about predropping, prerunning and genrushing…
Predropping and prerunning is an issue today? What did I miss since 2021? I rather hated survivors always going for the stun -because it became to easy and riskless- and I hated them disrespecting me and sitting on their gen right until I can swing at them.
And genrush IS a gamebalance issue.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001025#Comment_4001025
genrushing no longer guarantees a 1k. All the killer needs is Dead Lock to basically guarantee a kill even today. Survivors need at least 180 seconds to finish 3 gens+2 gens basekit. And a kill can be reached in less than 140 seconds on hook. That is assuming survivors can communicate.
In fact, facecamping actually benefits certain killers like Bubba and Trickster, because they can effectively bypass the basekit BT anyway, so a survivor triggering the unhook makes that 140 seconds only shorter.
So, thats a 40 second defecit, 60 if you include gates. Dead Lock turns that into a 2 minute deficit easily.Facecampimg does not exist anymore(!!!).
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001027#Comment_4001027
You notice the difference? Survivor DEMAND rules hiw the killer should play. That's not healthy for a PVP game. If you want that, go ask for a PVE mode with killer bots.Yes, killers have never had a problem with how survivors played or have strategies completely removed from the game.
I must have imagined when things like FTP+BU existed and killers complained about it until it was removed.
And all those complaints about survivors going down on pallets with conviction? Guess those never happened.
And no killer has ever asked for Windows to be nerfed because it is a 'low skill' perk.
Let's not forget how all killers love SWFs and would never accuse them of being cheaters.
Instablinds? Mathieu Cote was practically doubled over with joy when he had to play against it.
Of course bully squads are a welcome and valuable part of the game, according to killers. They are clearly called bully squads because its a compliment much in the way Teddy Roosevelt used the word.
Truly killers would never suggest that certain things survivors can do are unfair or should be removed from the game.
And again, survivor gaslighting. Complains about gamebalance, like item xy is op, is legit. (I remember when insta blinds hit me through my ear) Complaining about how someone is allowed to play in a pvp game is unhealthy for the game community. And in an asymetrical game, the non power role/team should not be able to bully the power role. That in itself is a serious indicator for a bad gamebalance and should be adressed. And in a game that is balanced around a team that is not on voice chat, SWF on voice chat are a problem, because than, the killer and solo survivor are to weak. If there is voice chat, the game needs to be balanced for it.
What survivor want here is a rulebook for killer. A Code of conduct. The amount of extras for unhooked survivors is already through the roof. Unsafe saves (stupid playa) shouldn't be rewarded.
Everyone being able to get up from dying by themself is against the spirit of the team needing each other against the powerrole.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000708#Comment_4000708
I have played pretty much every single year. And we've had survivor shortages too. Like right now, the survivor defecit is only growing. People are done being tunnelled and slugged. During the killer shortage, it was mainly due to toolboxes and generator perks not being adjusted and instaheals being a thing at the same time.
"Killers got the short end of the stick literally every patch for years"
Lie more. Survivors have been objectively, OBJECTIVELY, the most nerfed since release. They have been punished for doing their job of surviving and finishing gens. You do realize that generators used to take 60 seconds way, way back right? And that window blockers didnt exist, and all those boarded up windows you see today? Used to be viable vaulting spots too. All permanently blocked because survivors were surviving too well.
Yeah, a lot of killers do need buffs, but a lot of players need an MMR reset when anti-tunnel and anti-slug is made basekit too. A lot of players I face simply dont even know how to hook. And nowadays, survivors I face also dont know how to deal with a good hook. Taking 5 seconds longer to put a survivor on a hook next to a 90% gen is something I rarely see these days when I play survivor, because they rather go for the shiny white hook to reduce that gen for 15% and block it with DMS, which is only good if you play a mobility killer.Your opinion is not the truth and mine is not a lie. From when I startet playing (2016) until I quit (2021). I followed all the devs streams, major youtuber and read all the patch notes. Killer got 1 step forward and 2 steps back EVERY patch for years. I came back because a friend told me it got better, but most of the core issues are still there. The killer shortage had been denied, but survivor shortage is all of a sudden an important topic. Double standards anybody?
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000708#Comment_4000708
I remember those days. I remember beeing instablinded and how much sweat it took me to get rank 1 killer back in january 2018. I admit in the end I pulled out iridiscent huntress to achieve it. And also playing red rank survivors meant quite some waiting time and hear billy's chainsaw at the start of most matches. Wasn't the best time and everyone was happy when improvements came for killers. Especially when the pallet vacuum was removed. Suddenly we had killer lobby times which took quite some time for a while.
But as someone who remembers I know that the proposed changed wouldn't have brought DbD even near those days. So much has changed and adjusted since then. There was problematic stuff in it, worthy to discuss and it was important to catch it on the PTB and consider adjustments. Definitively. But I wouldn't use the hyperbole, that it would have killed killer gameplay completely. As some claim. It would be a big shake up. But that it's supposed to be. You can't adress slugging and tunneling without shaking up the entire game.- I fundamentally disagree the need to "adress" "slugging and tunneling". It's just part of playing the game.
- This "shake up" would hit people, accidently breaking this new rules, way to easy. And if that bullsh*t wozld hit me like 2 times just by accident, if would rather quit, either for good or until it's fixed(aka removed).
Enjoy your 30min lobby wait. Maybe they bringt in killer bots. Fun PvE.
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@cestoda5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996341#Comment_3996341
The other 80% of the players in your game PAID for it as well. Want to try again?
I don't need to, because killer don't brag about how the other plays should be allowed to play.
Survivors mindset: there is no gen rush, we just die our objective, it's the killers Lack of skill.
But killer should only be allowed to kill the way we wabt it. Killer should be not allowed to chase after an an unhooked znless he gut fully healed. Killer should be allowed to hook the same survivor in a row. But in case he dowbs a recwbt hooked survivor,, that guy deserves a free unbreakable.
You notice the difference? Survivor DEMAND rules hiw the killer should play. That's not healthy for a PVP game. If you want that, go ask for a PVE mode with killer bots.