Wolf65
Wolf65
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- Wolf65
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@Roaroftime said:
Im having another break, every round it's just a free 4k for the killer by hard tunnelling or camping and I finally thought devs were going to make solo q playable with these updates but over and over again they just fold to the moaning free win killers. I cant go a round without being face camped with the useless anti camp or tunnelled.
A call this made up nonsense. If a killer is "hard tunneling." and "face camping"(which is technically been removed years ago), it's a free gen rush wirh anything past a 1K being the survivors fault.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
The update, sure, needs tweaks. But why not implement a version with reduced numbers that basically only have impact in specific cases?
6 hooks too many to block gens? Depends on the killer, but reduce it to 4 so that at least someone else needs to be hooked first.
25% being too much of a boost? Drop it to 10%. Barely will have an impact, but it will give survivors some hope of finishing 4 gens if someone dies early.
Anti-slug can be implemented as is, Twins needs a rework anyway. If it needs tweaks, then do so later. Undying was up for 5 months before it got tweaked. Ghoul has been in an annoying state for forever too. Killers can deal with 3 months of anti-slug potentially being a bit too punishing
Keep the basekit bbq and 5% permanent regression bonus per unique survivor hooked too.
THEN tweak the rest around it. Its a baseline that would just make games more than just singularity basically camping with biopods, or a trickster dropping chase because main event is ready and the basekit BT is just a minor obstacle.
But fully delaying it for another 3 months? No. Sorry, Done. I already waited over a year to finally hear an update about a viable basekit anti-slug and some tweaks to anti-tunnel. I've waited 6 months since the emergency abandon feature. If I need to wait for another 3 months, thats going to be 3 months playing something else.Have you already played during the killer shortage? Killer got the short end of the stick literally every patch for years. And guess what? Killer mains either quit or switched to survivor. Lobby times for survivor skyrocketed. Killer got insta lobbies and dodged lobbies with unwanted items in it. You want to go back there? I am a returning killer main from that days, because friends told me the gamebalance got better. That "anti-tunnel/slug" mechanic would be a mace to the face to every killer player who is maining a non S tier or pay to win killer. So, right now I have 3 more month to play and triy out, if the new balance is actually balanced.
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@bleep275 said:
Right now tunneling feels like the "efficient" strategy, which is why so many competitive minded killers default to it. The problem is that it makes the game miserable for the tunneled survivor and leaves the rest of the team with less to do. If tunneling is the most rewarded strategy, people will keep doing it.
Endgame Feedback
Instead of always showing "Entity Pleased" when you 4K, make the message reflect how you played. For example:- If you spread hooks and keep pressure across the whole team → "Entity Satiated" or "Entity Pleased."
- If you tunneled one survivor out early while leaving others untouched → "Entity dishonored" or "Entity Disappointed."
Lessoning blood points if tunneling is detected may also help change the "efficient" view of this playstyle. Perhaps lower or reset their devotion level so they are rewarded less iridescent shards (much more valuable than blood points). Maybe if their behavior actively prevents them from obtaining cosmetics, they'll be more willing to change.
Variety Bonuses and Challenges
- Extra Blood points for consecutive hooks on different survivors.
- Daily or weekly challenges that encourage spreading pressure.
- Survivors who get tunneled out early could receive a small XP or Blood point boost so their match does not feel wasted.
Accolades System
Take inspiration from other games that gave banners and emblems for certain playstyles. Killers could unlock unique cosmetics, charms, or banners for milestones like:- "Master of the Hunt" → Hook every survivor twice before a kill.
- "Web of Terror" → Get 8 unique hooks in a single match.
- "Entity’s Balance" → Finish a trial with all survivors hooked at least once.
Why This Might Work
Players do not only chase efficiency. They also chase recognition and prestige. If the game signals that spreading pressure is "pleasing the Entity" while tunneling is less honorable, it reframes what counts as a "skilled" win. They are not here to simply kill, they are here to serve the entity. Positive reinforcement such as extra points, accolades, and visible rewards makes balanced play more satisfying, while subtle negative feedback makes tunneling feel cheap. Over time, players naturally adapt to the playstyle that feels both effective and respected.Now this won't cure tunneling, nothing ever will. Some people are just out for themselves. But I feel like it is a step in the direction as we are not changing gameplay but rather changing the psychology of tunnelers. There will still need to be direct influences in the core gameplay that actively works against tunnelers and protects the tunnels…but the recent PTB failure shows thats a long ways off. This could perhaps create a slow but persistent nudge towards a healthy mutually enjoyable playstyle. It could also be adjusted to change survivor toxicity such as leaving the match early.
I have more than 8 million bloodpoints. Do you really think that BPs are so important to me?
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Survivor mains always complain about tunneling. Even if did not tunnel, they tell me I did.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
BHVR you are just shooting your own game in the foot by rolling back the anti slugging / anti tunneling changes that non-biased players have been wanting for YEARS. Why roll them back because of a loud minority of killer mains? Survivor is becoming increasingly frustrating with bad killer design (clown, kaneki, nurse, blight, etc), lack of tools given to solo queue, and overall balance clearly shifting in favor of killer even though killrates are already high.
How do they expect to sustain the game when survivors aren't given incentive to play? I imagine killer queue times will skyrocket 2v8 style because nobody will want to play survivor.
Such a knee-jerk reaction by the devs to rollback these changes when it would benefit the majority of the playerbase. It's truly a shame.
1st. Killer didn't get sh*t for YEARS. 2nd. You need at least 1 killer to play to get a game for 4 others. So, who is more important for the game?
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Can killer get that, if they get looped for to long? Or when gens pop to fast?
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We had ranked games only for years. I am not up to date with the current matchmaking system, but it's the same forever. Low ranks: killer dominate high ranks: killer get bullied.
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Every killer has 3 digit Stacks of add ons he never uses. I am a Doctor main and run Calm and Order all day long. Everything else is just dead weight in my inventory.
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All those weird rules how it is allowed to play killer are stupid from the get go. Just let people play. Camping, tunneling, slugging, that's all survivor made up issues. That's all slasher horror troupes. If you can't handle them, why did you start playing DbD in the first place? Maybe ask for a new BHVR game like: looping Louie, the happy rodeo clown. 4 rodeo clowns protecting a bullfighter from a bot bull, that is programmed to entertain the player.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998927#Comment_3998927
Billy?
I hardly ever see any billys anymore. Like 9/10 times when I hear a chainsaw on the map, I see Bubba.
I do see the odd nurses and blights, but for the most part, I see killers that often play in more scummy ways.I find getting matched against Billy to be a breath of fresh air, and I never feel bad about losing against him, because he takes a considerable amout of skill to do well with.
So what are the most encountered killer? I don't know, because I do not enjoy playing survivor. Never did. And I don't own any killer past Oni.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998918#Comment_3998918
That killers don't feel about about hard tunneling. Even those high tiers.
Don't you think I didn't ask? I talk about blight, nurse and kaneki every time there is a chance on the forums.
Other people talk about it aswell and there is no action on bhvr's side.Good. Keep doing that, but for gods sake, keep general killer alone. I like to play different killer than Billy, Nurse, Blight. So stop with nerfs for all killer. When I startet playing DBD back in the days, I was a TRAPPER MAIN. Absolutly not viable anymore.
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What does that screenshot prove? That Blight is a high tier killer? Does that tell anything about any killer? If you have a balance issue, how about asking for a nerf to Blight instead wanting to nerf EVERY killer?
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@CompetitifDBD said:
Theres alot to unpack here, but we should all want the best of both roles. Heres my diagnosis and recommendations. Hopefully no matter your stance, you agree.
I'm not gonna bore anyone with personal life and #########, but I am a very unbiased player when it comes to whats best for the game's balance. I'm actually studying Game Design in University at the moment, because ever since I started playing DBD in 2016, I've always wanted to work for DBD's Balance Team.
- The Anti Tunnel and Anti Slug machanics had good intentions, specifically for Casual players as stated by the devs.
- They were noticeably overtuned and strengthened forms of frustrating gameplay for killers, like bully squads forcing garunteed pallet saves.
- The changes make all forms of tunneling too hard to do, and if you manage to succeed, you were severely punished.
What tunneling I find unacceptable is tunneling at 5-3 gens. It's unnecessary, its annoying to vs, and this update fixed it very well.
What form of tunneling is acceptable to me is when almost all generators have been repaired, and forcing someone out of the game to reduce pressure is the only way to win at this point in a match. This update destroyed all forms of tunneling by making catching a recently unhooked survivor too hard and long, while actively removing your ability to defend generators if you succeed in killing them.
Simple number tweaks to the punishment requirements and a new requirement can easily salvage the machanic, I'd have no problem with it as either role if: A, the minamum stage requirement to avoid giving free gen speed was changed to 4 stages and 3 or more generators are incomplete. B, killing a survivor after hooking them previously to make all forms of generator defense disabled should also require 3 or more incomplete generators to trigger. C, when 2 generators or less remain, the Hook Protection duration is lowered to 10 seconds.
This way, actually tunneling someone (trying to kill them when spreading hooks can still be an option) is properly punished for, while tunneling in end game isn't because thats necessary to win as majority of the roster.
Anti Slug is bad simply because its a direct buff to SWFs and doesn't help casuals much at all. The auto recovery is good, but also giving basekit Tenacity wasn't. Choosing between recovering and crawling was strategic, you either try to get picked up while the killer is away, or you set up for a grasp save. This update made it far too easy for coordinated groups of survivors to garuntee saves with Power Struggle and Flip Flop, as well as any Background Player + Flashlight builds. It was quite literally impossible to avoid getting stunned if these players managed to get in your lobby.
The machanic's basekit unbreakable is quite flawed. A strong effect that is never going to occur unless you're vsing a Bully Squad. It can be fixed by: A, making the resolve bar (Anti Slug) pause when survivors are near you, similarly to Anti Camp. B, make recovering or crawling a choice again. C, reduce the timer to 30 seconds, but it has to be regained each time its used. D, basekit Soul Guard if the killer is ground camping, but this and the machanic entirely disables when all generators are complete. E, the machanic completely disables when 2 survivors remain.
This aims to target extreme slugging only, while not making survivors completely immortal if they coordinate builds together. Anti Slug will actually help you pick yourself up more often if the killer is capable of picking you up, but chooses not to. Slugging for the 4K is still a viable strategy, since the 2 remaining Survivors can't use it anymore.
- In an attempt to balance these machanics further, the devs temporarily delayed their release, stating they want these features to be "less punishing for killers." For reasons stated, this statement is completely true and quite frankly seemed kindof obviously broken.
There is nothing wrong with that. They aren't too sure what should be done to balance it quite yet, and its a big machanic that's going to need testing before hitting live servers. Its not something they can just quickly number buff and send out post PTB, coding other changes takes time and alot of work, believe me, I'd know.
What I want to know is, do you agree? I'll put a poll, and I want unbiased explanations on your thoughts. Thank you.
TL;DR... almost, I stopped after you claimed to be neutral and want the best for both sides and than complained about "tunneling".
Did you adress gen rush later? Maybe that wozld make me read the rest.
If someone tunnels from the get go -which is the most logical tunneling- 3 to 4 gens should be done by the 1st K, unless the rest is not afk. So, what's the issue again?
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@Mistfit said:
The Slugging feature was fine but the Tunneling update was the problem not saying I need to tunnel to get kills. The problem was definitely if someone misplayed then the killer gets punished for it
Even the slugging thing was stupid. No need for teamplay on the side of the team, is nonsenes wothin a 1 v 4 game. No one has to leave a gen to pick his mate, so we get even more gen rush. Unlimited unbreakable deluxe for free? And what do the killer get in return?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998381#Comment_3998381
That's not close. The last gens tend to go much slower because the killer has much less patrolspace.
That's a survivor mistake. Most 3 gen situations happen because of stupif survivor gameplay.
TThat's why I hate the complaining and mechanics to eleminate 3 genning as a strategy.
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@Amanova said:
I'm not going to stay in the match any longer if they decided to tunnel someone specifically from the start and we barely managed to repair 3 gen or slugging from the start, I'm not interested in pleasing the ego of such toxic killers, the match is already clearly over for us so just add abandon in this case in the next update since you are not going to fix the problem with tunneling and slugging and I doubt it will be fixed in the upcoming years
"We barely managed to repair 3 gens"??
That's almost won! If your still a team of 4, it's about time to eliminate someone.what are you complain7ng about, at that moment?
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997571#Comment_3997571
I mean, I agree sort of. But I do think that a killer going out of their way to turn the 4v1 into a 3v1 at five generators is a problem. It's not a common problem, and as I have said in other threads, when it happens in a game I am in, it happens to me, but beyond that is where I agree with you. If you touch a generator, I am no longer tunneling you. I say that as both a killer player and a survivor player.
Tunnel 1 out at 5 gens is only possible, if the rest of survivor ain't doing anything. Killer beed to win 3 chases, 2 hits each time, with all pallets still available. And all the extra stuff around, maybe the survivor gets safed, wiggles free, hook gets sabod, etc. if it's still 5 gens to go, that's survivors fault. In my expeeience 2 gens pop during the first chase.
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@BbQz said:
Yeah guess I shouldn't have expected anything less from behavior. Nerf the first new item survivor into the ground 2 weeks from release. Completely axe the anti tunneling and slugging at day 0. What a waste of a IP I thought for just a second that with the big boom of new players to the game they would have the courage to do SOMETHING but no this will be a sizzle in the pan and people will leave in droves aside from its current dedicated fans.
Wow... survivor mains still around complaininf the game is killersided. I understand the bias, but what about common sense and marh? Did all of you skip school? Compare gen time to chase time. BHVR is catering to the bigger side of player. In an asymetrical game the majority of costumers to please are the survivor. That's why they come up with literal baby care rules in a survival horror game. What the heck did you expect , when you bought a "survival horror game" with the intend to play as the survivor?? Ever seen a slasher movie? "But I am a survivor, I should survive". No, most of you are supposed to be "victims". But you don't sell games, if you call 4/5th of the player victims.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
So this post didn't age well. They just said they are going to not put any of this live, and work on refining it given our feedback.
As for there being issues with slugging and tunneling, yes. As for something needing to be done, yes. But this was not it. Many survivor streamers I know saw how this patch was problematic.The only "issue" with "tunneling" and "slugging"is whinning survivor mains. Killers have real issues. With gen rushing, looping and pallet density. Do you see anything done about that? Why is everyone talking about "recovering from"? Why is everyone entitled to a comeback? How do killer recover from 1K/1gen left scenarios?
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@BbQz said:
To sell cosmetics...? You realize they make most there money from killers right? It's a killer game and its killer sided because killer = money.
So the issue is that over the years it became TOO killer sided see 100 game win streaks and almost 2000 game win streaks to prove my points. Now that things are trying to get corrected "aiming for 60% kill rates for killers" instead of the 80-90% killers are experiencing now at higher mmrs.
It's gonna be OK especially for those killers who "never tunnel" but are enrage at all the anti tunneling going on.
You think the game is "killer sided"?? That quote alone tells me, you never play killer. Only survivor mains think so.
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Increased pallet density?? You gotta be kidding me. There are already waaaaay to many pallets. They need to be reduced.
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I am a returning killer. After several years, friends tols me that the gamebalance changed and it's worth playing killer again without being the bull among rodeo clowns. I tried it, been moderatly satisfied with a spark of hope. Almost willing to buy a new killer, but now.... if this goes live, I will deinstall the game.... again.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996386#Comment_3996386
go play the PTB, adjust to the changes. It is not that deep. The issue is the psychology of tunnelers. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TUNNEL TO WIN. Catering to a small but very loud portion of comp kids, is not what is in the best interest of the game. There is a reason why 2v8 is so popular….its casual and both sides enjoy the match, which cannot be said about 1v4 tunneling. Tunneling is less about strategy and more about exploiting a low-effort path to victory, and the psychology behind it reflects that. Many killers tunnel because it gives them a sense of control and efficiency, but in reality it removes the need for skillful map pressure, chase variety, or resource management. Others do it out of spite, targeting survivors who looped them or acted in ways they perceived as disrespectful, which turns the match into a personal vendetta rather than a competitive game. Tunneling also stems from fear of losing; some killers panic when generators go quickly and latch onto one survivor just to secure a kill, even if it ruins the match for everyone else. Psychologically, it is a shortcut that reduces cognitive demand and responsibility: focusing on one target avoids the challenge of managing multiple survivors. Many justify it by saying “the game allows it, so it’s fair,” but this entitlement ignores the larger balance and longevity of the game. From the survivor perspective, tunneling feels like targeted harassment, leading to frustration, rage-quits, and disengagement, which hurts both sides in the long run. This is why developers work to curb tunneling; it undermines fairness, enjoyment, and the overall health of Dead by Daylight.
Yes, SWF groups can abuse things; there is always a way to abuse any new mechanic. But the problem with the “SWF” argument is that most of them aren’t competitive, and honestly, they aren’t even that skilled. The only time I play survivor is for Rift challenges or when friends invite me, and my SWF is usually just messing around and playing badly. For the majority, SWF just means people hopping on after work or school to relax with friends. The real problem comes from the hyper-competitive mindset players on both sides, not the average group. Basing balance decisions on the rare experiences of a tiny percentage of the player base is a mistake.
And if you look at the devs’ choices, it’s clear they don’t want Dead by Daylight to be an esport. They’ve never pushed for a ranked competitive mode, and for good reason. Competitive games are often swamped with toxicity and cheating from people desperate to prove they’re “the best.” The devs are aiming for casual enjoyment, not a competitive scene.
Its very simple. Give yourself a chance to adapt and try the changes. The devs have stated multiple times they will adjust things accordingly even killer buffs, which should be an exciting consequence for killers. Just think of it as paving the way for better balance and future killer buffs.
Nope. You dont understand the "psychology of tunneler". Why should the whole point be a killer issue"? Why do we have to adjust to bad survivor plays? Sometimes I have the same idiot running into me 3 times in a row, why should I get punished for it. The unhooked guy is injured, bleeding and grunting, but I have to ignore him on purpose or I get punished? There a hundreds of scenarios where a killer gets punished for just playing the game and doing his objective. Survivor have call moments in a match, the killer is constantly under pressure and now he get to juggle an extra micromanagement to keep track who he is allowed to chase or hook?
That's silly.
Where are the new mechanics againsr Gen-Rush? Or Looping? Or pallet vacuum?
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996369#Comment_3996369
oh i totally agree. A pvp game relies on that dopamine hit with each victory. But it can also suffer negatively from unhealthy playstyles and toxic players…something DBD is ripe with. Playing to win is natural and apart of everyone's psychology, my beef is with those who take it so far that they view others, not as healthy competition, but as meat for the slaughter. Like their only purpose is to feed their ego. That's usually the case with tunnelers…they have a very "im not responsible for your fun" attitude. Like no your not, but youre also not entitled to our suffering and when you live selfishly dont be surprised when noone wants to play with you and you're met with hate. I think the devs saw that with tunneling and sought to correct.
Im all for playing to win…as long as its done in a healthy manner. All sports and competitions have unwritten rules of respect they follow. Even in professional sports many times they do not run up the score significantly out of respect. its etiquette and huma decency and I dont see why video games…where most of us dont get paid millions of dollars to do so…cant act with the same respect. I went up against a blight ealier that absolutley curb stomped my team. dude did not tunnel and followed the six hook rule thing from the ptb. It was a fun and impressive loss and good times in post game chat. Later I went against a spirit who tunneled the living hell out of a feng then attempted to do it to a lara croft. Everyone, including the killer, was salty and rude post game. Killer because they only got one kill due to tunneling, and the survivors because its bad sportsmanship.
As survivor i usually match the energy of the lobby. If my team is goofin off…ill join em. If the killer is a vibe then ill vibe with them, but generally i play to win. As killer my "win" isnt the usual defintion set by this game. I usually load in with a build and a goal and if i achieve that then I still get that "high" ppl get from victory. I do get regular wins more often than not though. Like back when scratched mirror myers was alive and well i would simply play with the goal of getting jumpscares, usually let the fun survivors live.
point is….play to win. everyone does. Just don't stoop to the lowest level to do it and treat your competition like sub-human waste.
"Everyone, including the killer, was salty and rude post game. Killer because they only got one kill due to tunneling,"
The killer only got 1K due to tunneling? So, if tunneling is causing only 1Ks, so why survivors complain?
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@bleep275 said:
I am so excited for it.
tried 1v4 for the first time in a while as survivor….and each and every single match…one dude was tunneled immediately. the moment of unhook they would stop whatever they were doing and head back to hook. had an unknown drop chase with me just to warp back. a spirit phase away just to get back. a ghost face camp just far enough away to mark anyone with the unhook and tunnel. Another was an Artist that was just…the worst…and tunnled so aggressively hard for the mori. you can mori without tunneling btw. I had one blight who did not tunnel at all and hooked each of us one time, just like the beta. bro stomped on us. he was built different.
"Survivors when killers do their job". nah man, I've been a killer main since 2017 and the job is to serve the entity and the entity is basically the devs and the devs have spoken "tunneling aint cool man". you can win in a video game while also displaying human decency. everyone deserves to have fun.
I do play a lot of killer though and some of it has me concerned. I think there should be something to prevent it from ruining Sadako's whole power, condemning is already difficult enough. I think they should code in exceptions to the whole thing as a workaround. similar to how nurses m1 doesn't really count as an m1. or how the new speed boost in the anti-tunnel update effects killers differently. the six hook thing is annoying…but i can just kinda smack em if they keep running into me. In general it hasnt effected my gameplay very much at all as killer.Other than that i am excited to see it in the game and am excited to play survivor for the first time in a very long time. I just hope there isn't a lot of bugs that come with it lol.
We killer mains are human players. We want to play the way we like. We are costumers. The Devs job is to please us, because we PAID for the product. We ain't here to entertain the survivor player. If you don't like that, ask for killer bots. You can set up rules for them. If that's the way you want to play, why are you playing an asymetrical horrror survival game to beginn with??
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@HoS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995392#Comment_3995392
I agree, you could go and interfere but maybe your teammate has DS and can buy you time on gens? Maybe they don't? If they are being chased by a stealth killer or a big map, you don't necessarily know where they are. If they are a good looper, you might break their momentum in chase while being off gens so you're just screwing your teammate up. That's the big dilemma every time. Will they have DS or DH and buy us time so we should stay on gens? or should we actively help and take hits/use syringe in chase (if the survivor actually knows what you're trying to do with that syringe)? It's a gamble because BHVR refuse to give survivors any tools to know what our teammates are thinking or bringing into the match. Some expect a team of survivors to play like a team (makes sense) without the tools of a team (doesn't make sense). What other game has team gameplay with close to zero information about your teammates' whereabouts/loadouts/intentions? The only thing survs have is a hud. It's consequential, don't get me wrong but we're faaaaar from optimal team plays. And because of this problem, it creates the problem of SWF being overpowered sometimes because if we nerf SWFs, it usually (NOT ALWAYS) means nerf solo queue, duos and trios. We're not solving a core issue here.
Solo Queue is too weak and inconsistent (it has its thrills, I personally kinda like that) but SWF is too strong (better benefits but less tension and adaptation in game). Nerfing SWFs, for the most part, involves nerfing Solo Queue. The opposite is also true. So what do we do?
Also, tbf, even when you take hits in solo queue, a killer who wants to tunnel WILL tunnel and you're just stalling but the killer might take you down, chase the tunneled survivor and eventually get them before the one gets back up so it's a kill and another survivor on hook and good luck making any progress as survivor.
That's half of the issue with tunneling: it leads to this extremely killer-sided scenario and, as I said, it's normal they get favored but we all know that 3v1 at 3 or even 2 gens is a loss for survivors. You just keep farming BP on gens and chase but you know the outcome, you will lose. And it creates another problem: since survivors are aware of that, they know they won't win, they might start ratting around, hiding, not doing objectives in hopes of getting the hatch. Now you could find other solutions for that but you see my point. Tunneling and the swf/solo gap are all interconnected and bear a core dynamic on the gameplay and they have all led to massive frustrations since the game came out. SWF is too strong when optimal, solo queue is too inconsistent and frustrating, tunneling creates one-sided scenarios and is hard to prevent depending on the survivor group and has been meta since forever and gens go too fast sometimes. All of these are connected and other factors need to be considered (toolboxes, killer powers being outdated or busted, etc.).
DBD is an incredibly complex game with very intricate features.
I am all for no anti tunneling measures like we're supposed to get if we significantly reduce the gap between solo and swf and then adjust gameplay/perks accordingly. Alas, that's not what we're getting. BHVR have different priorities. You're right to complain about that but some people here (not you specifically) are incredibly biased for one side and it's like arguing with angry teenagers.
Some killer players seem to want to tunnel non stop and never think out of the box or come up with different strats, about a game that could have insane incentives to not tunnel (like the absurd ideas I mentioned earlier) and become the optimal way to play and don't seem to grasp that playing solo doesn't mean you're not playing against human players. Also some think tunneling is inherently the best strat because 3v1 is "common sense", "simple maths" but no, look at Singularity with pre-nerf Knock Out. Use the blind while slipstreamed addons with knock out, surge, sloppy and any other perk you deem useful and it was an incredibly powerful and obnoxious strategies because of how Larry's power worked. Some killers are incredibly at some tactics. SM was busted at negating areas and gens, she didn't need to tunnel. Pinhead can inflict deep wound with an addon which completely bypasses Off the Record so tunneling is super easy if there's no DS. Tunneling was the easiest and most universal strat but it's not an absolute. The game has more to offer and CAN offer more.
You can't have a 4k consistently, no one should in an ideal setting, this is not PvE where you can cheese mechanics to win consistently. Play other video games (try fighting games for example) and tell me if it's fair that some characters/sides get to win super consistently through some strats.
Some survivor players seem to want any killer that get easy injuries (Legion/Ghoul), or faster mobility than 4.6m/s or overused gen regression perks to get nerfed and nuked while having all the basekit benefits.You made a long post, but keep stuff I just answer to one point: I agree, the gap solo to SWF is to big. My idea would be, the survivor can see each others loadout at the campfire.
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@MsBikasa said:
I love hearing from players who started all the way back then. It's always interesting to hear their perspective on the changes.
I wonder how looping was invented, like you mentioned. I watched videos of Markiplier from 2016 playing dbd but also it's really hard to imagine dbd without it.
Looping: the collisionboxes -the collisionbox was for interaction with objects- of killer and survivor had been the same size. When the devs decided to make the survivors collisionbox smaller, math kicked in. The path for the smaller object around an obstacle is shorter, than that of a larger object. This lessend the killers speed advantage compared to a chase on open field significantly.
Also there was no exhaustion, just a cooldown, survivor could extend chases so far, that they could use perks like SB 2 times in 1 chase and there was no bloodlust speed boost for killer in the game.
And survivors risked getting hit, if they tried to drop the pallet for the stun. Basically a double hit, the killer hit and was stunned on the other side of the pallet anyway. Devs removed that, because survivor complained about it as a "glitched hit".
If you want to go down that rabidhole, I tell you about how juking became a thing next. 😉
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@cogsturning said:
I'm always puzzled by these complaints that say things like, "I usually win but I'm still mad." Kinda negates everything else.
Buy who cares if people say rude things? I get constant insults, whether I win or lose, despite playing fair. You're playing the role that's the center of attention so youre going to get some. Just ignore them, turn off chat, or play anon if it bothers you to that extent.
And the changes are good because soloq is miserable and that's probably how most survivors are playing, and if you dont have 80% of your players choosing survivor at any given time then there's no game. Survivor can't be endlessly terrible.
It's also safe to say that the devs have a massive stack of data in front of then that we'll never see and that's what they're basing the changes off of.
I am not up to date with the current matchmaking system, but when I quit it was like that: start of a season you Level up in ranks. Low Ranking been easy for killer, but when you hit a certain rank, you hit a wall and it reversed. Only sweaty loop pro 4 Swf guys. The season reset only dropped your rank a little an kept you closer and closer to the wall, if you did not derank on purpose (what messed up other players (Survivors) game experience). So the whole gamebalance was about what could lowskill survivor do and how do we Limit high still killer. Now I have the impression to play just random groups. So the issues with the balance is still there.
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@HoS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994230#Comment_3994230
Yeah, it does make sense to get rid of someone. It doesn't have to happen at four ######### hooks. And no, it's not simple maths. If all gens went back to zero every time you hooked at different survivor, the game would clearly be in favor of not tunneling at all because it'd be so obviously overpowered. So no. In this case, it is a simple maths. A simple change to one number and that's it.
As for the 1v4 entitlement, again, I don't disagree. The problem is when it happens very early and it leads to two problems that I will have to repeat: one survivor is out after barely getting to played (i'm mainly blaming hard tunneling) and the team is incredibly unfavored once a teammate is dead. At 2 gens left, it's 99% chance killer wins in a 3v1. This is super one sided. The killer should have the upper hand but it shouldn't be this drastic.But why is that a killer issue? That's why there are FOUR survivor. If someone gets tunneled, go and interfer. Try to get the killers attention away from the other guy. If you already got hooked and all other not, play stealthy. If your not hooked once and all the other are -maybe multiple times- maybe it's your tunr to distract the killer. Why not create ingame mechanics to encourage that?
I had games where I only saw the same survivor. He died on the 3rd hook, before I ever met another survivor. What's the plan for that scenario?
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Mmh… somehow I messed up the quotes and the system won't let me edit.
Plz ignore the strange edits. 😛
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@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994237#Comment_3994237
This is either ragebait or you have no idea how the game played out several years ago. Survivor was at its easiest in the first 4 years of the game. Anyone genuinely claiming Killer was easier back then would uninstall just from one match of playing, even with broken builds like machine gun Huntress or insta saw Billy it was still a challenge to kill Survivors.
The Game was totally different back than. Survivor needed to hide and avoid the killer. People choose their survivor depending on how visible the outfit was. No Rodeo Clowns.
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@Pulsar said:
First time I've ever heard someone claim that Killer was powerful and easy back in 2016, 2017 and 2018.
Like I said. No looping or juking, if you got close enough the survivor could spin his controls all he wanted, you got a hit. Most annoying survivor perks haven't even existed. I played basement trapper with IG + AGI along with stuff like BH or Whispers and WON (4K).
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@HoS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994046#Comment_3994046
Again, you said it, it's a PvP game. Tunneling revolves around eliminating someone out of the game (5 players ⇒ 4 players). It's incredibly unfun for the player who's out and it leads to 3v1 scenarios that are incredibly more one-sided. The dynamic is drastically different. It's super hard for survivors to win once one teammate is out too early. It's not fun in a group of players to have to spectate others. Yes, teams can take hits but like… competitively tunneling was very good so let's not expect pubs to counter tunneling efficiently because it's very strong and some killers are very good at it. And also… who likes to be sent back to the lobby three minutes after getting a match?
Don't you think it would be healthier to have buffed gen regression and killer chase power but everyone gets to stay in the game
a bit longer? We saw with the stats tracker that players spend like 30% or 40% of their play time in the lobby. Who enjoys that?
Efficient strategies for killers shouldn't revolve around tunneling, it's not fun for anyone. It could be other things that don't need to get rid of a player. You're playing against other actual people, everyone wants to play the game.It is an asymetrical PvP game. The best strategy to win solo vs a team is to eleminate 1 player as fast as possible. That's simple math and common sense. (Go to any self defense class and they will tell you the same in RL.)
In a 1vs 4 game only the single player is entitled to play the whole game start to finish.