Why are people crashing out on these forums about the changes being delayed?
There are literally hundreds of videos and thousands of posts demonstrating, with concrete evidence, why the current iteration was not good.
This wall of evidence was so thick that BHVR made a statement a couple of days into the PTB indicating as much.
Objectively, it should not be going live until these issues which, again, have hundreds of captured examples, are addressed.
The foot stomping and whining from some users is simply wild, particularly when no effort is made to refute the very real evidence that exists.
The system is going to be tweaked and brought back in a better form that presumably addresses its current issues - there is no need to be upset or descend into histrionics.
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"#IrrigatedPrivilege"
Flashback to when we were in the era of "We tried anti-camping once 5 years ago, but it didn't work so that means we can never try ever again". Still kind of surprised it came back at all. 😵
because tunneling and slugging has been a massive issue for so long and have only picked up in frequency as more comp "i gotta do what youtuber tells me to do" kids have been flooding in. Survivors had hope for the first time in like….ever…that maybe they could go into a match wihtout worrying if theyll be allowed to have fun or if theyll be bled out or tunneled out. YOu ever notice how the BP bonus is only ever for survivors? Noone wants to play it because its misery and the one gleam of hope was taken away because tunnelers are very very very loud about anything that slightly inconveniences them.
the crash out is because they said "too punishing for killers" meanwhile survivors have punished via tunneling, camping, and slugging for YEARS. yet no shining armor of the bhvr emblem came for them. Theyre frustrated and burnt out. Tunnelers and comp kids have ruined any spark of joy for survivors.
Have you ever actually seen a chat gpt response?
Being people keep talking about the evidence, I went and looked at it. The Hens video was on the front of my Youtube page so I watched it and felt like he really missed the point.
Then I looked back through this thread and saw that @tjt85 has already commented on it and I don't want to just repeat his good points, so I'll try to make some new ones (though I do need to reiterate that the video is 2 2ks, a 0k, and a 4k, which seems absolutely fine - especially given many people seem to argue that survivors usually have an extreme advantage at this level).
First, the trials were so much more enjoyable to watch than your standard comp fare. It wasn't just proxy camping and tunneling, there was far more gameplay. I wasn't even expecting that and was left far more enthused about the changes than when I went into the video.
Second the trials are a mix of comp rules and the new system which inherently creates problems for overall balance discussions.
Third, on the reddit thread people say even though the survivors are from Invictus, normally Obii would 4k with Blight on this map.
Isn't that a problem? The best killer player in the world should not just be expected to 4k the best survivors in the world.
Fourth, in the Blight match there seems to be a big overreaction to the gen speed boost. After the elimination the survivors are split, two on one gen, one on another that already has ~55% progress. The gens are getting completed at this point regardless of the gen speed boost.
Now saving ~8 seconds isn't irrelevant, but his reaction was way too extreme.
Finally, the ending conclusion didn't effectively contrast the killer buffs with the survivors. We got examples of how powerful the killer buffs could be during the trials, but we didn't really compare those to the survivor buffs.
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On a personal level, there's a lot in the patch I don't think is strictly necessary and I disagree with BHVR's general 'take it to the extreme' philosophy on changes.
But watching the trials things looked fine. At worst this seems to be a video showing we need some slight adjustments, not proof of something being broken, and overall this looked like a much healthier game than what we normally get.
I'm doing my part!
mashes downvote
You saw my videos and posts about weaponizing no collision?
Is that not evidence?
I'm further confused - most of the issues people had with the PTB were well documented.
Okay, so in all serious, I think most, if not all of us agreed that the anti-tunnel mechanic had issues. I did think that the punishments for tunneling took it one step too far.
But what exactly is the solution? Remove the punishments and keep the basekit buffs for spreading hooks? Then Killers as a whole would be massively buffed, whether they tunnel or not. (And taking out a Survivor quickly would still be a huge buff to them, even with the punishments in place.) And that will put Survivors in an even worse position than they were before.
I believe that's the root of all the "crashing out." The solution could either come years from now, or it'll be so insignificant and easy to play around (like the anti-facecamp mechanic or the AFK crows) that it may as well not exist.
This system was bad from the start. How often do we need to point this out until it finally goes…
We are officially in downvote: endgame.
Time to just downvote everything. No more upvotes just negativity everywhere.
Sigh. How far we have fallen. This update really show us the worst sides of the community.
You saw my videos and posts about weaponizing no collision?Is that not evidence?Evidence of what? You said you don't personally have a problem with it.
Does it break the game? Is it too powerful? Does it harm the game design?
This thing occurs, okay, why does it matter? A statement of fact isn't evidence unless it supports the conclusion (example of a factual statement that does not actually explain the conclusion: tunneling Nurses are in the game thus the patch must go through).
How is it such a big issue that BHVR had to delay the patch, and why couldn't they fix it (this can't be answered by you as mentioned, but people are crashing out at BHVR and its reasonable to expect them to give more of an answer)?
I'm further confused - most of the issues people had with the PTB were well documented.Most of people's opinions are well documented (this also brings up the issue going back to my earlier posts about having to guess at your meaning, whose opinions are we discussing, I put my analysis of Hens take in here).
People have well documented opinions on their thoughts of Nurse, Blight, Wraith, basically name your killer and you can find people describing their problems with them.
That doesn't make their opinions true.
I guess you don't understand what I'm saying, given your repeated use of...interesting... terminology, so I'll have to bow out of this conversation.
Weaponising, or using?
Each post is further removed from the simple conversation at hand.
Just a term for aggressive/offensive use.
No personal qualms against it - you can't control or restrict someone's inputs, but it was a hot issue on the PTB.
I can't keep you in a discussion but I'd like to know what terminology you consider 'interesting' so I can try and explain it.
Even if they removed the punishments, there was other changes presented than just killer buffs. There was also several protections to protect survivors from being tunneled off hook. I think those MIGHT be useful against killers who's strategy is to tunnel off hook. They also completely changed perks like BBQ, making it so ppl who arnt getting the fresh hook benefit wouldnt just be able to slap on the perk and have business like usual.
But aggressive use in itself is not a problem unless it negatively impacts the balance. Was there evidence of that?
This may come as a surprise to you but your opinion is not infallible. People have different opinions and they represent that in the form of a downvote.
Being unable to hit the unhooker while having your chase interfered with by the unhooked who also had 30s of endurance/no collision/haste to interfere with your hits/powers, drop pallets, block vault hits, etc was certainly something.
Not if they're wasting gen time on getting themselves tunnelled out.
because there is no specific reason on their part to indicate what's exactly is "too punishing" for killers, many of whom I watched almost all got 2+ kills (ofc if you not a baby killer)), or are high kill rate stats important for bhvr? Because apprently new changes usually makes draw matches
So true, remember they also promised survivors killer bots? How many years past then and killers can still dc to ruin their matches/challenges/achivements…
In most hook trade scenarios the unhooker gets hit while they are looked in animation during the unhook. You need quite a distance to safely unhook in front of the killer. One very popular clip regarding those scenarios the killer decided to regurgitate the freshly unhooked instead of hitting the unhooker e.g.
Also the changes are designed to make hook trades less likely except the killer proxy camps or the the unhooker leads him towards the hook on purpose.
It is already kinda common for survivors to bodyblock after an unhook to prevent the hook trade if possible. It's quite important counter to proxy camping sometimes, but a very risky one.
This kind of behaviour we saw during the PTB was to be expected. Some PTB scenarios I saw the unhooked would have been able to body block as well. The changes would have made it easier though. But it's wasn't that problematic. The only thing questionable thing I saw was, when the unhooked used the aura reading to run specificly towards the chase.
But that is something else and a problem we already saw in the past with OTR and DS as well and yes, it was good that we catched up about it during the ptb to adress this potential issue.
Still this didn't justify the overall doomposting and the lack of constructive criticism regarding the changes.
I'm just kinda disappointed, excited to see some sort of radical change to the game get to do its thing as we see exactly how it changes things on a non-PTB live setting. And I agree there were parts of it that needed tweaking, the PTB is great and all but whatever they revise it to and bring back still won't be perfect and eventually they just have to add something and change it over time from there.
There were not hundreds of videos.
And what evidence? Opinion videos with hypothetical scenarios narrated over a match the killer is still obviously winning isn’t evidence.
I’m not going to say all the changes were good or all the changes were bad but acting like the pushback to them was anything more than panicked, frequently evidence-free doomposting is just ignoring the truth.
I played on the PTB and know for a fact the sky wasn’t falling.
My prediction is that if and when the system does come back, it will only punish hard tunnelling (triple hooking the same Survivor in succession), the Elusive status will be halved in time to something like 15 seconds and all the Killer buffs will be removed because there won't be justification for them anymore. I'd be sad to lose the base-kit mini pop, because then I wouldn't need to burn a perk slot on regression or slowdown on my better Killers and could try for more varied builds. It would've also solved the issue of there being no decent regression available to new Killer players (I know we have Deadlock in the pool of general perks at the moment, but the Hellraiser chapter might return in the not too distant future and then there would be nothing again).
I think the only anti-tunnel system that will pass the PTB will be the one that won't negatively affect the way content creators play too much, because they tend to be the ones who set the tone for discussion and they have the biggest platforms. I'm not saying content creators don't make a lot of good points because they often do, but there's also a heavy dose of politics, emotion, bias and rhetoric in a lot of their talking points to unpick. Others have also made the point that the game is probably too mature in its lifecycle at this point for a lot of players to accept any really big changes (it probably didn't help that they tried adding all of this in one patch, either).
But like you say, finding a happy medium between over tuned and so weak it would be pointless could take quite a long time to figure out.
Same reason there were complaints when infinites were removed.
Man I really hope they fix the fog vials on maps they are actually a problem on so they can be buffed again, coz I feel that's the only reasons they deserved nerfed and it's not even every map.
I was really excited for that item too lol
bring back likes!
AcesSpeedo likes this!
I can't help but notice the overwhelming downvoting of literally any comment here in defense of killer, and one of Raccoon's that was just neutral statement about how testing multiple major things in the PTB at once (map changes + anti tunnel + anti slug) can complicate test results.
And this is a common theme on the forums where certain things get downvoted for literally no logical reason, as if someone didn't like what someone was saying and logged into 12 alt accounts or something.
downvote for comedic value.
My prediction is that if and when the system does come back, it will only punish hard tunnelling (triple hooking the same Survivor in succession), the Elusive status will be halved in time to something like 15 seconds and all the Killer buffs will be removed because there won't be justification for them anymore.Part of me expects this might happen and while not the best outcome I'd be fine with it, though I think there would be an outcry about the loss of killer buffs, but I think/hope BHVR understands that its a two way street.
based af ngl
Oh my!