Survivors need to improve and get better
There are many discussions on what is unfair for survivors but as someone that plays roughly 50/50 killer/survivor I don't see much discussion around criticizing survivor's lack of improvement. I get that DbD is a popular game and there are new players coming into the game all the time, but barring that the game has been out for many years and most of the problematic players in solo-q are not new players.
Main issue I see with survivors is they are not proactive with gens. They consistently go for easy far-off gens and 3-gen the team. Survivors have got to start learning the maps and being proactive about identifying and pressuring 3-gen locations early in the match, or in the event that there is a 3-gen, proactively identifying and helping the team to pressure different gens and force the killer to have to patrol all 3 gens. There are perks available to help out with this so "I don't know where the gens are" is not an excuse. Running around doing gens blindly is not doing you or the team any favors and in most cases you are handing the game over to the killer.
This brings up the second issue: Many survivors don't pressure 3-gen locations because they want to hide and are afraid to loop a killer. Survivors have to learn that each player in the team has to take their turn wasting the killer's time, and in addition survivors need to be taking hook states during the game, everyone needs to do this. No one is expecting you to take the killer for a 5-gen chase or 360-tech like a looping god but be proactive and learn to use tiles to your advantage, there are myriad youtube tutorials on the types of tiles and how to use them effectively as well as aura reading perks and items to help you see the killer while looping and evading. Time wasting perks like head-on, blast mine and others are also at your disposal.
Third, Too many survivors complain about being tunneled out too often, but aside from learning to use tiles better and improving your map sense and knowledge, are you also running any anti-tunnel perks? do you also take protection hits for your teammates or do you use perks or items to deny the killer hooks when they are being tunneled or do you hide in a corner?
TLDR: Too many survivors complain that the game is unfair but they don't work to improve their game by watching tutorials or run the perks needed to balance their weaknesses. Sometimes you are the main cause of your own demise during a match.
Comments
They don't track winrate, so it's Nightlight or nothing.
This thread is not asking for anything. There's no question mark.
In other words, you're just refusing to talk to people who are giving you specific strategies, citing the survivor's survival rate regardless, right?
If not, please point out what is wrong with the strategy he wrote.
Propaganda? 💀
Yes. He writes about strategies that survivors should do more of. If you want to deny or criticize him, you should point out if there is a mistake in his strategy. Survival rate is not relevant here. This is a thread about how to increase survival rate.
According to the dictionary definition of the word balanced it's 50/50, not 60/40.
So your definition of hell pre-6.1 is survivors didn't go down in 10 seconds and killers couldn't win most games while barely trying?
That's crazy I've been told none of those changes mattered at all and that Survivors were still safe doing that same strat today
depends on the game and player sometimes you just gotta hate the player and other times the game
What's wrong with the strategy he wrote is that it is irrelevant.
If this thread had been titled 'Tips for new survivors', or 'how to climb out of low MMR', that would've been fine. But it's not, is it? The people he's talking about are not on these forums, reading this thread. Not to mention that the TLDR tries to state that survivor complaints come from the people he describes, and they just very much don't.
That 5 hour blendette who rushed a corner gen and then sat in the basement locker for the rest of the match is not on these forums complaining about tunnelling. So why she's being brought up when people try to talk about how awful tunnelling is for gameplay is beyond me.
This thread asks nothing and offers nothing that's new to anyone here.
In other words, you are claiming that what he wrote is reasonable and that there are no people here who are being targeted?
In that case, I would simply reply that if I had done what he proposed, there would be no such thing as a 5 gen 1 kill. Because those who are able to follow his theory will never do so. That can't happen unless you choose not to do what he says.
I've never played a game in which the players are so reluctant to actually complete the objective, it's like my solo queue teammates don't know what the gens even are and I can only cope with 2 rounds then I physically can't bring myself to play another, it's too painful
This thread reminds me if the last gen is almost completed please commit to it
I don’t know how many games I’ve lost where the teammate leaves and I get pulled off the last gen at 99%………
In other words, you are claiming that what he wrote is reasonable and that there are no people here who are being targeted?
That's not what I'm saying at all. That's not what the OP's intent is, either. OP's intent appears to be to devalue the complaints of survivors on these forums by claiming that they're not just low skill, but dramatically low skill.
In that case, I would simply reply that if I had done what he proposed, there would be no such thing as a 5 gen 1 kill. Because those who are able to follow his theory will never do so. That can't happen unless you choose not to do what he says.
That depends entirely on the game. There can be situations in which the survivors do everything right and it still goes that way. For one, it's disingenuous to claim that survivors should get gens done as fast as possible, while the OP specifically points out that gens should also be done cleverly. Trying to do that extremely crucial mid-field gen on Azharov's Resting Place is always going to be significantly slower and riskier than just bumrushing one of the edge gens.
I myself had a game once where I scored the first hook on Dredge in under 30 seconds because one of the survivors tried to lock a locker I was shifting towards. They weren't doing anything wrong.
I played in swfs for a while an switched back to solo an it shocks me how bad a lot of solos are now the decision making an selfishness of how they play blows my mind not to mention the early dcs an rage quits on hook.
"disingenuous to claim that survivors should get gens done as fast as possible" Can you explain why this is the case? Completion of gen is the logic of this game, and everyone should be aware of how efficient and necessary it is to speed up the process. If this is not the case, it will only accelerate the death of the survivor. Do not you think so?
Next, I'm talking about playing against Dredge, but even if he catches a survivor in the locker, it's just a matter of survivors gen progressing towards completion. Only beginners would lose their balance due to an accident of this magnitude.
Can you explain why this is the case?
Read the entire sentence, not just the first half.
You have a right to cry. I never thought that so many people would turn a blind eye to the fact that their actions are holding back other survivors.
Are you referring to the central generator in Azharov's Resting Place? If so, I'll give you the correct answer, but he didn't tell you to complete gen there. In the first place, in ARP encourages the completion of generators at both ends without bias. What he's saying is a generalization, and it depends on the situation, so that's why he's telling you to memorize the map.
He's warning you not to try to complete gens that are worthless to the killer, but instead to target gens that the killer doesn't want you to complete. It's determined by the map.
The middle gen in ARP is a key gen that must be completed early if a 3-gen is to be avoided. Otherwise the map gets dramatically reduced in size.
If you complete each 2gen on both ends, there will be 1gen on both ends. One survivor is in charge of a gen and another is in charge of the opposite gen, the killer cannot sabotage both at the same time. In ARP, the theory is that survivors aim for this chance of winning. This is a classic strategy that everyone has known since long before the map was reworked.
Aiming for the middle gen is only done when the killer is chasing a single survivor for a long time to avoid completing gens at both ends. If they attempt is discovered and you are chased by the killer, if you have completed many generators in one direction, run there, otherwise stay in the center. Every need to deal with it dynamically depending on the completed generator and the killer's aim. Once I can do this, they can graduate as a beginner.
Doesn't change anything though. If you want to avoid getting 3-genned, you will want to distribute your gen pressure which means you can't do it as fast as possible.
Okay sure.
What is it you wish to be equally likely to happen?
A problem I see most people having is not understanding that killrate is NOT the winrate for killers.
Lets do some offtopic cointoss experiment. I'm aware that chances arent rates, so this is just theoretical numberscrunching, for fun.
Is it fair if 4 people each have a 50% chance to win while the 5th person only wins if 3 or 4 of the others lose?
For clarity's sake the 5th person has a 0.5^4 +4x0.5^3 chance which is ~31.25% to win.
Do you know the structure of ARP map? In this map, it is true that the survivors will have an advantage if they complete gen closer to the center, but if they can only complete the generators in a biased area after that, a 3 gens problem will occur. In fact, all DBD players who have been playing for many years know that they must avoid this as a priority.
Therefore, the Trapper, who has low mobility and wants to gain an advantage by expanding the trap area, will actively protect one side of the map as his home. Of course, the survivors understand this, so they either capture the area that the Trapper wants to protect first, or they all attack the Trapper's promenade in waves after conquering all the other areas.
...Well, depending on the map, the generators that all survivors should place importance on are determined, and of course the killer also wants to protect them, so mind games occur. Therefore, instead of doing what the survivor wants to do, it is important to do what the killer does not want they to do. This is the basis of all competitive games, not just DBD. Whether it's a fighting game, FPS, or chess, that's the case anyway.
Again, it doesn't matter. The point is that doing gens 'as fast as possible' and doing gens securely are mutually exclusive.
So that's where survivors can show off their skills.
Killers have serial behavior, survivors have parallel behavior. Survivors use their advantage in numbers to attack from multiple angles. While someone is being chased by the killer, everyone else can safely work on completing gen. Survivors who slack off are just giving up a way to killer win. Chases are not for Survivors to kill time and play with the Killer, but to keep other Survivors safe and completing the generator. Hurrying the completion of the generator is an action to give meaning to the actions of the survivor who is being chased so as not to waste their actions. That is teamwork and the mission of survivors.
I disagree, it's constructive to criticize the team players who need improvement, not the game they chose to play. This is my whole point, gamers who refuse to improve but will instead blame game mechanics, mmr etc. At no point did I point my finger at so called noobs but instead players that should know better and need to be better.
In other words, survivors should not skip completing gen while someone else is chased. If they had done that, it would have been a mistake on the part of the survivor and they would have lost to the killer. It's not that the survivors are at a disadvantage, it's just that they abandoned their strategy to win on their own. The reason why experienced survivors say that survivors have an advantage over M1 killers is because they carry out these operations properly.
This thread only describes the basics of the strategy, and even if it fails, it is not difficult to implement.
The point is simple, too many players will blame anything else except themselves for their bad performance, or will say they're being "gaslit" by being shown why they need to improve, saying this only proves my point.
At high MMR ranges there are many other problems, main of which is survivors leaning too heavily on bully tactics, sabo-reliant builds and flashlight saves because high-time survivors find doing gens "boring" and want to aggravate the killer instead, many times to the detriment of the team, hence why escape rate is paradoxically low at high MMRs. My post does not focus on these tactics but rather on the mid-range MMR players who, as I highlighted on my post, refuse to use perks necessary to fill in the gaps of their gameplay or take a few minutes to watch tutorials on looping, finding gens, etc. Everything I pointed out cuts right to the chase of how mid-range survivors are letting their team and themselves down.
The 3-gen problem, lack of team coordination, and tunneling are issues that have received solutions, and while they're not perfect, they go a long way to mitigate the problems. But if a survivor refuses to use other tools to leverage in-game aids and instead continues to make excuses, they will find themselves 3-genned and tunneled over and over again. Saying that 3-gen is a knight and skull merchant exclusive problem, Perk use is only a band-aid, Being tunneled out is not a team but a killer problem, and legitimate critiques of survivors gaslights them into thinking they are 10-hour blendettes is being disingenuous.
If I had a dollar for every time some random DBD player thought long and hard about all the balance and design nuances stuck in every facet of this game, from the killers to maps to perks and everything in-between, and still thinks the solution is "git gud" in a match making system that's literally meant to put players at an equal skill together, I might actually be able to afford some cosmetics.
In other words, it's a passive-aggressive vaguetweet.
The point is simple, too many players will blame anything else except themselves for their bad performance, or will say they're being "gaslit" by being shown why they need to improve, saying this only proves my point.
Oh, you think this applies to me, do you? You think I don't know about which gens should be targeted early on to avoid 3-gens, and that I will sit in a corner, hiding, when everyone else is on death hook?
Ironically, I think you're kind of proving -my- point: You assume that whoever says something you do not agree with must not understand the game's barely-above-basics principles.
At high MMR ranges there are many other problems, main of which is survivors leaning too heavily on bully tactics, sabo-reliant builds and flashlight saves because high-time survivors find doing gens "boring" and want to aggravate the killer instead, many times to the detriment of the team, hence why escape rate is paradoxically low at high MMRs.
That low escape rate at high MMR is only for the solo players; The ones considerably less likely to attempt to use tactics that require heavy coordination.
It's honestly a bit insulting that you assume high MMR solo players are all flopping bully stunts, as opposed to considering the possibility that high MMR killers are just good at what they do.
My post does not focus on these tactics but rather on the mid-range MMR players who, as I highlighted on my post, refuse to use perks necessary to fill in the gaps of their gameplay or take a few minutes to watch tutorials on looping, finding gens, etc. Everything I pointed out cuts right to the chase of how mid-range survivors are letting their team and themselves down.
And, barring the band-aid perk stuff that I already addressed: Where are these players? Where are these players that are loudly complaining on the forums about the game, and yet do not know how to locate gens?
Who are you targeting this at?
The 3-gen problem, lack of team coordination, and tunneling are issues that have received solutions, and while they're not perfect, they go a long way to mitigate the problems.
The 3-gen one did. Tunnelling did not. Tunnelling, in fact, got one of its countermeasures removed, and we're all waiting on it to be reinstated. And no, taking protection hits is not going to fix the issue. I should know: I once took three protection hits in the same chase, and the killer still wouldn't stop tunnelling.
Because I think this is also something that you do not understand about the main gripe with tunnelling: It's not about its ability to win games, it's about the fact that three survivors are left doing M1-simulator, and the other is going to get kicked out of the trial with sub-10K BP and a depip. It is ruinous for gameplay. People want stronger countermeasures because torpedoing its winrate is going to be the only way you can get people to stop doing it.
Which worked prior to 6.1 with DS being a legitimate deterrent, but then it got scrapped.
That's a very succinct and well thought out response. I'm not adding anything; I'm just giving a compliment as everything you said was completely true and well spoken.
Well, I think we were able to collect a valuable sample that says, ``No matter how good you are, it's meaningless if people don't think it's good.'' We can't be miserable survivors, we just have to be legitimate players and play good survivors.
Exactly killer gets held by the hand and now they're saying git gud lets go to before 6.1 for a week and see if the killer can git gud.
Okay, but why survivor? Both sides are complaining about this and that, but survivor should get better? And because they get better, killer can then ask for more survivor nerfs?
Survivors didn't go down in minutes before because of safe pallets, which I explained in another post.
So yeah, survivors putting in a little more effort is nice.
Im well aware of the intention of his post but for the most part it just comes off as: "If youre homeless, just buy a house". The large majority of complaints from Survivors stem from Solo Q, and these arent solutions to it since it requires communication. And no, you shouldn't need to run specific perks to remedy this.
Running around at the beginning of the game just to try and find a 3 gen wastes time which you dont have, but isnt an issue as a SWF since they can cover much more ground thanks to comms.
Same goes for breaking a 3 gen, its a lot easier to pressure them thanks to communication and good coordination, 2 luxuries that Solo Q doesnt have.
Tunneling is also something that is much more effective thanks to a lack of communication. Sure you might be able to see that the person that just got unhooked is being chased, but how do you know you should take the hit right away? If there are plenty of resources in the area then the unhooked Survivor is mostly fine and can likely buy more time for their team, before eventually needing a hit. But what if all the resources are used up? Theres no way of knowing.
Then theres another angle to look at it. What says they dont want to be tunneled? What if theyre bringing the killer top side with DS while the 3 gen they want their team to break is bottom side?
In any of these scenarios it is much harder as Solo Q since you dont know their perks, you dont know the killers perks, but most importantly you dont know their intentions.
He didn't tell you all to buy a house. Everyone complains that they can't buy a house, so they suggest that if they want to buy a house, they need to earn money, so they should do this to earn money. He's just saying he can't buy a house unless he earns money.
It just seems to me that I'm rejecting his voice at that point. Of course, I can understand the criticism that earning money is too difficult and unfair. However, these actions are not difficult at all and are something that almost every "intermediate soloQ"can do.
I recently provided some assistance and guidance to a player who said that his opinion on ARP was at odds with his opinion on generator completion. No one wants to know or learn even these things. why? This is a historically famous and basic strategy for DBD. Anyone who is interested in DBD or simply likes it can reach to this strategy.
This game is divided into killers and survivors, the killer's goal is to kill as many survivors as possible, and the survivor's goal is to complete as many generators as possible and escape from the gate after gen powered. Chase and rescue, shine a flashlight in the killer's face to free the survivors, cure them, hide, and everything else is all about how to complete the generator. As long as you misunderstand the essence of this, you all will continue to be beaten by even the M1 killer forever.
It comments like these I dislike seeing cause you're criticizing OP for something you're actively doing in literally this exact reply. This is DBD, its version of handholding is to grip your arm for dear life, blindfold you, and walk you headfirst into a river. We don't need to snap at each other like petty kids over the silly spider god murder game.
Good survivors still do.
I wasn't aware that "good" (very subjective term) Survivors were granted some special basekit buffs.
Who said anything about buffs? They have been able to and still are able to predrop and hold W. The problem is that they either don’t know this or they try and overcomplicate the game by trying to make “owning the killer” type looping compilations.
Survivors have to learn that each player in the team has to take their turn wasting the killer's time, and in addition survivors need to be taking hook states during the game
distortion users entered the chat.
to add to the topic: i personally think 90% of the time in soloq the teammates of a survivor getting tunneled just need to do gens and not try to be heroes, especially if it's multiple teammates hovering/taking hits. in soloq that's mostly a waste of time since you don't know how good the player is or how favorable their position is. you never know how much help (if ever) the person needs and it kills the spirit of the player when they see you wander around instead of doing gens while they are already using resources and don't need any help.
No, they really can't. Not against any half-sentient Killer
Well, it depends on whether it's within the realm of possibility or not. There are many times when we decide, ``It's no good for him anymore, let's just survive on our own.'' What is needed is to delay and prevent the survivors from being cornered to that extent as much as possible. For this reason, there is a concept of distributing the hook state, and the ability of the survivor to do this is also a counter to the killer.
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They can’t predrop? I don’t see how pre dropping is at all demanding.