Is it time to nerf Windows of Opportunity?
Every match there are 4 survivors using WoO. If you check nightlight, you will see that the using rate of this perk is MORE than an exhaust perk!
You take away their looping crutch perk and watch how they all crumble down.
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When players ask how do I deal with survivors, a common response is "try to create a dead zone and chase survivors near it."
I guess the upside to maps having so many pallets is that it's hard for SWF to keep track of them (they can only call out god pallets that have been used). This means they actually have to equip an info perk to get said info (unlike Bond, Saboteur, or Object of Obsession, where SWF can share their location as well as the location of the basement once spotted and the last known location/heading of the killer without needing to equip those perks).
Players call Wraith braindead, and then perks like Windows of Opportunity exist.
That's because Zanshin Tactics isn't as effective in chase compared to WoW. There's a reason why literally no one uses it.
That's why I said we have to agree on whether or not Nightlight is or isn't fair game when it comes to asking for nerfs or buffs and if usage rate equals a balancing issue.
We can't have people just picking and choosing when Nightlight should or shouldn't be a reliable source to ask for buffs or nerfs while most people throw the devs under the bus because "Yeah, usage rate of this and that was high/low but this didn't deserve a nerf/buff. The devs clearly don't play their own game."
And that last part is probably the thing that bothers me the most. We can't trash talk about the devs if we're basing our own opinions on balancing on the same metrics.
Is it time to nerf corrupt intervention, sloppy and lethal pursuer considering they're used by 97% of killer mains now? No? WoO is fine then.
Yeah, WoO is only really useful to less experienced players. Better players already know the maps well enough (or should) to make the perk kinda pointless.
Great beginner perk, though.
This is a good assessment. It is useful for new players still learning maps, and useful for more knowledgeable players to know which resources have been used or not, especially solos. It doesn't give comms any real benefit either.
Perk is fine the way it is imo.
What I tell you about being honest and observant?
Gunna get you in trouble 😉😂
right! but in bhvrs world is: meta = nerf, or why they nerf as selfcare ? that perk was by far not good! but bhvr do it, Billy, some killers addons and and... they watch the stats (data) and thinking "that is pupolary, we should nerf it!" how ever dumb it is
I used to laugh at that suggestion because WoO is perfectly fine - as others have pointed out: knowing where resources are is only an advantage if you know how to use them. Safe for SoloQ where knowing where the dead zones are is essential for any form of survivability*.
But I've sorta changed my mind.
Because if WoO is nerfed then maybe people will start running an actual fourth perk (it's not that hard to remember pallets and windows once you know the tiles - and people will remember that rather quickly if the have to. Which they do without WoO). So yes, please do go ahead and nerf WoO.
*e.g. Bond is even better toward that end tho
What is the worse it can happen on online forums? I will be fine no worries miss piggy.
I have used windows only for challenges and to be honest it’s not that great. IMO it’s just a distraction sometimes, but like I said just my opinion
32m active FULL game with no requirements.
Should either have old cooldown or be reduced to around 20m.
Popularity argument so many people throw here is just laughable to be honest xD It's gonna get nerfed, jolt and other perks too will get nerfed.
All killers learn how to chase, survivors are not exception and have to learn how to loop without 32m legal wallhack.
Windows of opportunity nerf will only make game better, survivors will actually have to scout the map and remember where to take chase and if killer broke dozens of pallets he wasted enough time already and deserve some easier chases.
Windows doesn't make someone good at looping. Most pallets are quite visible. I have poor memory, and even after the 1500 hours I've accumulated playing dbd I still can't remember the location of every single pallet, structure and totem on the map.
It also isn't the EZ Mode you make it out to be. Here's a scenario where a new player wouldn't understand how to use the information the perk is providing.
Map is (probably) Shelter Woods. There's a pallet between two rocks, and adjacent to it is a L-T wall. So the setup would look something a little like this L T ÷
Not exactly the best visual representation, but I'm on mobile so you'll have to use your imagination.
god forbids survivors to have good perks
the funny part... is that all the nerf suggestions would only hurt newer players.
Sure, nerf every surv who doesn't know the maps inside out. I'm sure that will help the disparity between low mmr being a kill fest and high mmr being a surv fest.
Full disclosure I am average to bad at chase, and I use windows in practically every build I run. It allows me to run a decent chase occasionally, but more often than not I still get downed pretty rapidly. If windows got removed or nuked from orbit "like most of bhvrs balancing nerfs end up doing" then I'd probably stop playing survivor and I'd definitely never touch solo q surv again.
It is a crutch perk for sure, but in my higher mmr killer games I actually see it very rarely. It helps a weak chase runner become average. And provides very little advantage for an experienced survivor beyond knowing which pallets are gone. Plus it has counters, plenty of them in fact, there are so many perks and addons that cause blindness.
Remember you need 4 times as many surv players as killer players. And this one is a bread and butter perk for survivors, not an OP I win button like everybody claimed DH was. Nerf it too hard and killrates will rocket way too high.
Like maybe decrease the range a little bit, perhaps 25-28 metres max. But much more than that and the perk becomes effectively useless.
I don't think it does, its a perk which whilst useful for almost every player (even the best looper ever does not know how the map spawned) it still drops off in usefulness as you go up. That said its a perk which even I just feel so much better to be using despite not using it much in the first place, so I can see why it is used.
Yeah, lets nerf the perk that highlights the atrociously bad map design.
Instead of fixing the maps.
Good idea. Here's a cookie.
I don't need a nerf
I wouldn't mind if it got the Visionary treatment.
While active, when you drop a pallet or make a vault, the perk goes on cooldown for 16 seconds.
You can still make a mental note of where everything is when you can see it, but it's not 100% uptime and so it has an element of 'skill' to it.
That's what it was before it got changed to always be active, and guess what. No one ran it, and instead ran a dreaded second chance perk instead.
Looking back at the history, it was 20m with a 40s cooldown, understandably crap.
32m with a 15s cooldown is much more manageable, you can still use it multiple times a chase. Sometimes the middle option really is the best.
No one runs Visionary now because, well, it sucks. I actually had a thought the other day that it should just permanently show Gen auras.
Or perhaps not nerfing a perk which at its base requires skill expression. Bad survivors won't know what to do with their information, while a good survivor player still needs to capitalize on the information presented. All this nerf would do is sentence the perk to the usage rate of visionary (which is crap). Hot take imo but pick rates aren't everything when it comes to if a perk is a problem.
No pick rates aren't everything.
The issue is the flawless chaining of pallet to pallet to pallet to pallet to pallet... with a flashlight blind at every single one.
15 seconds would require the survivor to make use of the advantage Windows offers them by actually extending the chase by those 15s in order to get it again.
literally only affects weaker players. why would you wanna make the perk bad for them?
The issue of survivors chaining pallets together won't change at all even if windows were to be nerfed besides, if a survivor is chaining pallet to pallet to pallet to pallet to pallet that sounds like a skill issue, especially with the number of pallet pallets on maps recently.
I digress tho, any cooldown on windows will relegate it to visionary tier usage and everyone will just complain about the next "problematic" perk.
Why all the calls for windows nerf? I'm a killer main like that's plays killer 95% of time windows is not op in anyway. I can see how it might help newer players but most players and sweat squads already know the map and call out what pallets they drop so that a non factor. There no need for a cooldown or a nerf to windows at all like of all the issues with this game windows isnt one of them.
WoO and Lethal should both go. Play the game and do your job. Being led by the nose via perk is sad and does nothing to improve yourself.
Windows is fine. I just fin it funny how most surivors with windows dont even look behind them and are just "locked" in a straight way. Thats when i go: " yep ... thats a windows - gamer".
I dont really like the autopilot - part of the perk. But i understand its place in the game. Maybe the perks information could be time based like lucky break and could be earned back in some way. In that way the survivor has limited time in chase to memorize the information give to them but is able to recharge the perk with enough time spend in chase.
yes. mft should be nerfed first
Windows is a godsend perk for solos and consoleros. On PC you can just use low graphics and filters instead.
If you disagree tell me why.
no because newer players wouldnt have the perk or know about it
you know newer players isn't just people who installed the game 5 min ago right?
Spoken like someone who's afraid of going against survivors that won't go down in 5 seconds lol.
Windows of Opportunity is a big deal now? Seriously? It’s just a highlighter of pallets and things you can vault around you. It conveys some benefit sure, but it’s really not helpful most of the time and just ‘handy’ levels of useful in cases where it does provide value. If you want to compare apples to apples, Lethal Pursuer provides a much larger benefit to killers for doing nothing. I think it’s fine too but IF aura perks are to be considered for a rework, WoO is not really top of the list.
Not every perk needs some complicated startup sequence that may or may not occur in a given match. The less direct, match impacting value a perk provides, the easier it should be to use. This perk is a good example of that design.
Just return it to its first state when it was balanced
What do you think is unbalanced about it in its current state specifically?
WoO is not a problem whatsoever... This is an essential perk to help new people learn how to loop imo..
Windows is fine. There's no need to nerf it. If survivors are choosing to run it over other, more impactful, game-changing perks, that's a major W for killers.
It doesn't really help experienced survivors to chain pallets together, since most pallets are close enough together that you can see them and plan this anyway.
The real strength of WoO is to know which pallets have and haven't been used, because not everyone plays as a 4-man swf that's able to perfectly communicate their exact location, exactly which resources have been used, exactly where the killer is and which location they're heading towards.
TL;DR: WoO is fine, because not everyone plays like they're Team Eternal. Run Third Seal if you hate it so much.
Killers being upset, again, that survivors can bring perks, I guess.
Yeah, F new players!
In all seriousness, the perk is fine. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it needs nerfed.
I agree. And even so, if you're a strong enough looper using the perk is overkill.
Also, I don't know about everybody else, but I'll gladly take 4 WoO users. That's 4 survivors who aren't using Unbreakable, Resilience, DH, DS, Plot Twist, Prove Thyself, etc.
Windows is for when you solo. Without it you often run to where you thought a pallet would be. Killer made someone else use it, and then pushed you there. It also shines mid-end game. You can find remaining pallets if you’re desperate.
Windows doesn’t need to be nerfed at all. Most killers have add ons that apply blindness whenever they do something. So they don’t consume a perk slot... When I play pig I apply Blindness to her Reverse Traps. Trapped survivors can’t see downed/hooked players, loops via windows, teammates via bond, etc.
Devs did so
It showed only one area and after it it had cool down which means you had to remember where were windows and pallets .Because a lot of survivor survive a lot only because of this perk because they already have a lot of info where to go .In the past when it was a cool down people were panicing and not knowing where is the window exactly and it was way balanced than now.
High usage rate =/= overpowered
newer players would be the only ones affected by this change since it does nothing for the experienced players that already have the info they need.
so... why make this change?
Because people on this forum enjoy making noobs suffer for some reason. A notably odd trend
Yikes.