Eruption Nerf: BHVR - This Is A Bad Idea.
From the patch notes:
First, Eruption will now cause the generator to lose 10% of its current progress, not total. This means the effect will be less severe on generators with less progress, but more impactful on generators that are nearly completed.
Second, Eruption will no longer apply the Incapacitated effect to Survivors who were repairing the generator when it exploded. Instead, Survivors who are actively working on the generator will scream and reveal their aura to the Killer for 10 seconds. Not only will this make the perk less frustrating for solo players, but it will also give the Killer crucial information on the other Survivors’ whereabouts so they can attempt to interrupt them.
We hope you’ll find this new version of Eruption to be much more comparable to other generator related perks!
Before you type something along the lines of 'lol QQ moar killer mains' - think about this for a second, because this is going to basically destroy the remnants of the somewhat varied meta we had for a while.
Was hoping that they'd change it to be powerful, but less annoying. Eruption was only a problem against solos - the power of the perk wasn't the issue, it was that it felt nasty to play against.
This is a massive nerf. It's still going to be pure garbage versus SWFs, and now also mediocre versus solos. It's...not quite a Thana level 'yeah, we don't want anyone using this perk again ever stay mad' sort of nerf - but it's still ridiculously heavy handed and unnecessary.
The aura reading is cute, I guess, but you'd be better off with NTH.
The regression nerf is massively unneeded. This is now just a really, really mediocre perk.
Keep in mind that PR was still at a higher pick rate - meaning that now, despite the stated goals of the 6.1.0 changes to make the meta more varied, we'll now be entering a point where the killer meta is less varied than before - with PR builds really being the only way to keep up with the crazy Stakeout + Hyperfocus + Toolboxes + PTS genrush squads.
And now, I will bet dollars to donuts, once Pain Resonance hits 50%+ usage rates, we'll be seeing that nerfed too.
Yeah, I'm a little annoyed about this - because it should have come with a nerf to the silly 'faster gen' perks I'm seeing more and more of.
We'll see how it plays out I guess but ouch.
I think what bothers me here is that it's yet another example of how differently BHVR treats killer and survivor perks that they feel need adjusting.
Dead Hard - reworked, still really good, if not better in some areas.
Thana, Ruin, Pop, Overcharge, now Eruption -
Comments
That regression nerf is so weird, people always were complaining about the incapacitated effect, not the -10%. I expected them to slightly increase the regression amount and considerably reduce the incapacitated duration but I guess that just made too much sense for their balance team. The perk now is even worse than before the buffs, when nobody was using it.
The ONLY problem eruption had was the inability to do anything - that's just not engaging nor fun. No one was complaining about the damage eruption did. This is a SIGNIFICANT nerf to gen control with this change, and imho, an overnerf. Here's why. With this nerf, it's gen control potential got nerfed TWICE. It's losing preventing 30 SECONDS of repair time. That's a HUGE nerf already That's a loss of 33% repair time PER survivor affected (as survivors hit would be preventing from repairing for 30 seconds). On TOP of that, now it loses 10% of it's current progress. That means if the gen is at 50%, it's doing a mere 5%...and that's on a perk that not only has a cooldown, but also require the killer to spend time to stop and manually kick the generator. That is a MASSIVE nerf making this a practically useless perk for gen regression and instead moves it to an info perk.
I'll say again, though, no one had a problem with the damage the perk does. It already did minor damage, and it required kicks. That's a lot to pay for just to get a small 10% reduction. Now it will ALWAYS be less than how it was pre-nerf. I agree the survivor disabling effect should have gone away, but you shouldn't have double dipped and also removed it's regression potential. That is a 33% potential nerf (depending if a survivor got hit with the effect), and a guaranteed loss of regression swapping it to CURRENT progress. This is an absolutely terrible balance pass on this perk. Revert CURRENT progress to a flat 10%.
I'm hoping for more shake-ups when the mid-chapter drops. They already said that more is coming, it just would have been nice to be given an indication that while a popular killer perk is being adjusted now, in time so too will adjustments be made to some of the plethora of second chance perks that survivors have at their disposal.
Ouch, i hated eruption but they pretty much gutted it.
To be fair though
I think overall changing most if not all generator damaging effects to current progress instead of total would be a good change
IF and only IF the survivor gen speed perks/items get hit too.
One of the hardest things to balance in this game is the huge variety in how fast a gen can go. Making it more streamlined will make things waay easier to balance in the future
I really can't agree with Empathy helping much. Without seeing where the killer is relative to them, or what resources they have, it's pretty much a crapshoot. Might go down within 10 seconds of getting injured, might be another minute. All you can do is tap anxiously and for sure let go if they start spinning. I run a healing build and swap between Empathy and Empathic Connection depending on how much I get sandbagged that day, and I scarcely noticed a difference between the two.
Eruption 100% needed to change and I'll die on that hill; they just nuked it instead of cutting loose the distinctly unhealthy parts and compensating it elsewhere.
It is frustrating that these forums constantly suggest sensible changes and somehow we get such badly conceived fixes when they come around. Still salty we didn't get Thana with decreasing returns on more survivors injured (like 6-10-13-15.) Or, y'know, Eruption with higher base regression or gen blockers.
As much as I hate eruption I would agree that they definitely went too far with nerfing the regression aspect. They're making the same mistake they made with pop. Not gonna lose any sleep though.
"Current Progress"
10% of 89s is 8.9s regression, 20% is 17,8s regression.
Jolt regresses 8% of a gen which is 7,2s regression and it can spread to multiple gens.
We've got a base perk that does way more regression than a licensed DLC perk.
Regression perks and progression stuff is not equivalent. Survivors just splitting up, predropping and banging out gens with no gen perks is incredibly effective. It wins games, full stop. Most killers some sort of slow down perks to slow down the game and give them a fighting chance. Survivors don't need progression to win games.
Good, bad killers won’t get carried by this 1 single perk anymore. I wish BHVR would focus more on aura perks and less on regression perks to promote more chases which are the most fun part of the game. Gen speedup perks/items would need changes too
Yes, those are great ideas. I have seen them and posted some here. But most responses weren't really that constructive, most people just initiated fights and didn't agree on anything. Seeing all the posts of suggestions to Eruption that removed the incapacitated but upped the regression and removed the cooldown, make it activate on hooks so survivors can counter play it. Most responses being people angry saying that the perk was fine, it was bad against SWF and not that great.
Honestly, this nerf is harsh, and i don't think the regression nerf is warranted, but damn if seeing the perk get destroyed like this after all the discussions isn't kinda of amusing.
Eruption created arguably the least fun meta the game has ever seen. In no way was the meta 'varied' as you said. It was easily in the top 5 of OP perks ever made.
It being absolutely destroyed like this is not a big deal. In fact, it is a shame it took so long to nerf it. It ruined countless games while being active from when it was buffed until now.
There are hundreds of perks in the game. You'll get over it. You never used it before, and you'll be completely fine never using it again (undoubtedly changing all your loadouts to have the next best perk).
And you are completely wrong about Pain Resonance. There will be no outcry for it to be nerfed because it feels fair to use and is not completely busted like Eruption. Or, if there is the occasional post about it, it will be like Windows of Opporunity posts (the people who complain about it are complete noobs).
So yeah, did they nerf it too hard? Yeah. Is it a big deal? Not even a little bit.
I think that issue boils down to the inability to balance the game for both the low end and the high end. On one side, you've got games where the killer is running four slowdowns and the survivors are lucky if they can finish a single gen because none of them are particularly good loopers and they just keep getting their progress nuked by their downed teammates. On the other side, you've got genuinely skilled killers who can't get more than three hooks before five gens have popped because there's just too many resources for equally skilled survivors to delay them with (to say nothing of the resources to streamline said gens.)
Basing gen times on MMR bracket would probably help, though that opens up its own slew of problems.
I'm not commenting on the actual change they're implementing, but your suggestion would've translated to either:
I think targeting current progress only works if a Killer can control what they use it on and when it goes off (see: Pop), and even then, the cap shouldn't be set so that at 50% progress you lose... less than 5s.
That's the problem with current progress. This proposed number, 10% of current progress, means if it goes off when a gen is half complete, it takes off as much time as some Killer animations.
Eruption also has a cooldown.
No, no, there'll be complaints. If you don't think there's going to be complaints, you haven't seen this forum. There were complaints about PR before, there'll be complaints about PR again, even though PR could always be countered even in its initial form by just watching the auras and letting go when the hooking started.
While the gen being blocked is still pretty strong and I wouldn't want it to last 25 seconds (I think Eruption launched with 16, and don't know why that was ever changed), it'd allow me as a survivor to do something with my time. Usually that'd mean stopping to heal or going to work on a different nearby gen. "This gen is off limits" is healthier than "You are effectively removed from the game" even if the numbers are still open to debate.
The gen being blocked is also a slight nerf in two other ways - the killer can't immediately kick it again, and if it wasn't being worked on at the time of Eruption going off, it won't regress until the gen is unblocked.
Killers don't have any shortage of aura perks (although some of them just have ridiculously long cooldowns for their utility--I'm All Ears, for instance).
What this has done is create an aura perk that gives you information you already knew (someone is on a gen you kicked, because the scream told you that), and most killers can't make any use of (wow, 6s of knowing someone's on that gen I already knew they were on, but I just downed someone so I should do something about that).
There's only like one regression perk that hasn't been kneecapped (and even PR took SOME hit) in the last nine months, and gens are only getting done faster and more efficiently due to other changes, even without speedup perks or items.
PR complained about a lot before the eruption buff. Well PR+DMS complained about a lot. Now eruption is gone you see it come back in the forums bc 90% of killers will have PR+DMS since it's the next-best perk combo. When that happens you see survivors come on here and say things like "PR+DMS is so boring", "They need to nerf PR+DMS!" and so on. When that happens the devs do what they always do with overused killer perks/addons. They nerf them to the ground so no killer will run it again.
dead perk literally nurse mains are gonna love this boosted perk 10 seconds of free aura and with that to down people.
Finally more nerfs for the overpowered killers. Cant wait to see incentives on killerside more and more.
I can just say dear killers, stop playing killer at this point. Or should we wait till Pain Resonance, which will be seen in 80% of the builds now gets butchered?
At that time PR was nerfed. It was quite strong as a perk. Now it is in such a good spot.
As I mentioned, if there are some people crying about PR it will be because they don’t have much experience in the game, like the occasional post about Windows of Opporunity shows.
The issue with your statement is that the change is good for one Killer, Artist, without heavy slugging and that's only because Artist doesn't need to chase you to down you.
The very few other Killers that could use this need a mass slug strategy to use it. It's useless info most of the time and we don't need useless info perks; Killers need actionable intel if you want more chases
Wow eruption goes from s-tier to d - tier
What next? Remove the ability to kick gens as a killer?
Maybe you give the survivors just the ability to open the gates without the need to work on gens?
This is a joke. Every online game out there nerfs something slowly and adjusting the nerf if needed. But this? Is like full sledgehammer mode.
I predict tunneling will again grow overall.
Eruption definitely needed a nerf. It was miserable to play against without comms. However, I can't see any of the logic behind this choice of nerfs.
The regression - It is now worse than the current version of Pop, which is pretty damn bad already. This perk was never used for its regression. Pre-nerf, they could have removed the regression entirely and the perk's usage would likely not have dropped at all. So yea, not sure what their thoughts were here.
The aura reading - What? I don't get how this is useful, at all. The ONLY way it can be useful, is if you slug. You can stop and look around after you have downed your survivor, but you only see people that were working on gens. You don't get to see people setting up for flashlight saves for example. Next, by the time you go through the pickup animation, the travel distance to the hook, and the hooking animation, the survivors you did see have likely moved on well after the 10 seconds have expired. Floods and BBQ are just infinitely better perks in place of Eruption now, even with the measly regression factored in.
Could have just added entity blocking instead. It wouldn't even step on DMS's toes either. They could have also just reverted the perk to it's original form. I just, don't know what they were thinking with these changes. Regardless, it being addressed is good for the health of the game. Just sad they gutted it out of existence, like Pop and Ruin.
Why would a Nurse want this over Infectious Fright or Floods of Rage? It requires you to stop and kick gens to get anything, it's unreliable whether it'll actually reveal anyone when it triggers, and gives you information at an iffy time (because going after someone means risking you lose the down you just got, particularly if they're not close by - and unlike IF, this doesn't guarantee they'll be within actionable range.)
You're better off with Nowhere To Hide and just getting immediate information if you really want to be a gen-kicking Nurse.
If I have learned anything about this community, it's that people will complain stridently about whatever the most common gen regression perk is, regardless of whether it's fair or not. Yeah, Eruption was horrible for the game, really badly designed. But there was nothing wrong with Pop at all, and I still watched it get flak. Same with the previous version of Ruin, really. Slowdown isn't fun to go against and therefore people will always have issues with it, and that issue will take the face of whatever they're up against most.
The only difference between PR then and PR now is that it doesn't give the killer a notification on where the gen that got blown up is. And more than half the time, I can infer where it is anyway. It's not that different.
Not really? PR was nerfed yes in 6.1 but all they did was remove the Noise Notification and the scream then. Then later they added the scream back in so I say the perk is in the same state as it was pre 6.1. Yeah doesn't have the noise notification but when run with DMS you don't need the noise notification. People complained about the DMS+PR combo back then. Even if ppl dont complain about it still will be nerfed based on pick rates bc the dev has shown they nerf killers' perks and addon base that also. Ruin/Pop was a fair perks but was nerfed/gutted just bc they were used too much. Twins and Nemmy's best addons were fair but were nerfed bc they were also used too much. The nerf perks/addon are based on pick rates and complaints. What is even worst is they gut these things instead of trying to find a balance.
Good, maybe terrible killer players who needed this perk to beat 4 solos might actually have to improve instead of getting the victory handed to them
This! I've had to deal with that horrible perk wayyy too much. I hope it stays dead.
Love that some of these ppl don't actually want balance and are just happy to see a perk is dead. A perk being useless is not a good thing. Its poor balancing will only cause problems down the line. The devs took the easy way out as they always have when balancing killer perks/addons. Perk is op, complain a lot about, or is over used = gut the perk and call it a day.
Hate to shatter the illusion for you, but if one, single perk nerf 'completely destroys' an entire meta...
That's not a 'varied meta', it's a meta that's being hard carried by that single perk.
Personally, if BHVR wants killers to prioritize chase over kicking a gen I find that to be far healthier gameplay.
And seemingly, they'll only look at toolboxes, BNP, and Hyperfocus synergy if the kill rate drops too far. That can never happen if there's an outlier like current Eruption propping up kill rates. Hopefully, since this change is coming in a chapter release instead, then maybe they'll have the data to make additional changes by midchapter balance patch. They've said they're going to be dedicating more effort toward balance, so perk changes are very likely the focus of the 6.6.x midchapter.
I’m happy they nerfed it but it’s honestly still bad design. SWF can still dodge the effect by letting go, it’s just not as important as it used to be.
That said, I don’t actually care if it’s overnerfed because I’d rather it be overnerfed than continue to have any kind of place in the meta.
Agreed. I've said it before, but Eruption is absolutely carrying killers.
Again they should've just lowered the Incap duration to like 10 seconds...
I used the perk before it got changed and no one complained about it...
Actually I was using the "meta" before it was "meta" LOL... and nobody complained about it
Surprise surprise, perk is complete trash now. It’s so funny, replacing the Incapacitation with aura reading would’ve been enough to kill the perk, but they had to beat the dead horse by lowering regression to 10% of current, when it should’ve been buffed instead. Do they realize how small and insignificant that is? Perk’s legit only good for aura reading, which you wouldn’t even run for that when there’s billions of better aura reading perks that are more practical and don’t require set up. Horrible change. Only people praising this are salty survivor mains who got clapped by this one too many times. Scared to see what else they decide to nerf.
jolt has always been better.
Salty? You are correct. Eruption was one of the most broken perks added to DBD. Glad it's dead.
thats some serious bs. nerfing something to death is NEVER a good idea, regardless of killer or survivor. it can only be brought up by ppl struggling with eruption imho.
You are delusional if you think pain res is not gonna be the next thing people complain until its useless, unless the new chapter has some incredibly good regression, I expect pain res to get nerfed in the nect midchapter update, maybe deadmans along with it.
The 6.1 update listed "make regression perks less powerful" as a primary goal. Of course it was deliberate. That was the reason gen times were increased.
Pain Res is already neutered alongside DMS.
It used to give you info on the gen, DMS lasted 45s instead of a mere 30s and Merciless Storm caused both perks to be nerfed.
You need to devote two or three (Agitation) perk slots for 15% regression + 30s blocking.
I have to agree that this is a terrible change. Incapacitation was an issue but they way over nerfed this.
Yeah this is just a complete gut of the perk to make it only viable on insta down killers or highly mobile ones that also have good chase powers aka blight, wesker, spirit, nurse.
All the killer mains should really just quit and switch to survivor. I spent several months only doing killer. red 1, huge win streaks on multiple killers. All that happened was games got harder and harder and more and more stressful. So I just went back to survivor. I'm going to win slightly over half my games either way to why should I play killer and be miserable win or lose, when I can play survivor and be chill whether I win or lose?
Wait until we have a thirty+ minute long wait in lobby as survivor. It's happened before and it'll happen again.
I did a bunch of games without eruption, also did some without it or pain res since I sense thats getting nerfed next. Every match was absolutley horrible. Even getting a down almost instantly with lethal persuer doesn't matter. Gens are too fast, period. Even with four gen regression perks like eruption the moment it was a 4 man on comms eruption was useless too. Hell a random ace last night on a gen with me knew when to let go to avoid eruption. Only impacted solo players who literally just got a giant buff with the hud. Killers have to treat EVERY game like a swf now, which has been the MOST complained about thing by killers since launch. I don't think the hud is a HUGE issue for killer, but at this point it's just the devs actively telling killers to quit the game.
I was in a swf game last night and we had three gens done before killer had two hooks. I just rolled my eyes and told my team thats why I quit killer for the past couple months and went back to survivor. Killer is stressful and unbalanced and on top of that if I get one toxic tunneling killer when I'm on survivor, I get 10+ toxic survivors when I play killer.
The devs actively do not care if people are playing killer. Their money comes from survivor cosmetics. they will NEVER make it so killer is fun for more than a short month or two period. New players see the cool killers, buy the game, lose, switch to survivor and spend money on cosmetics. That is the business model. Killer players keep the game going by keeping it alive but do no spend the same money so they don't keep the company alive.
1) killers quit because kill rates are low
2) devsgive them a tiny buff
3.) survivors cry and get over buffed to compensate
4.) rinse and repeat.
Since we got 10 extra seconds gen time last year (doesn't matter when that ten seconds can be spent on separate gens at the same time, hasn't seemed to impact anything) survivors have gotten
1.)hud update
2.)survivors have easier to access items in bloodwebs
3.)killers have LESS access to addons in blood webs
4.)now an eruption nerf and amn buff
5.) nurse nerf
6.) nerfed thana
7.) said theyd make dead hard a little more fair. It is pretty much the same as ever.
8.) buffed flashlights and flashbangs
9) spirit phase sound nerfed
I'm sure a missed a few more killer nerfs we've had in the past year, so any killer players out there think of them quote me with them so I can toss them on here.
Tell me ######### killer got besides ten seconds on a gen that doesn't matter now that the bloodwebs give more toolboxes and bnp than ever? My swf last night had THREE prove thyself. We didn't even discuss it. Thats just going to guarantee wins very often against most killers. I laughed out loud and asked when I realized it why we brought three. Then we all escaped
I'd really like to go back to playing killer but win or lose it's just not fun anymore. If I go into a game as pinhead or michael myers and feel more stressed out than when I play some generic ass human with no powers, something is seriously unbalanced overall.
This is so confusing.
10% of 99% is 9.9% which is less than 10%
10% of 10% is 1% which is less than 10%.
But, no sober person will care. Using this version of Eruption with most killers will mean you're dumb. You'd have to down someone, leave them slugged, run across the map to the gen that got Erupted chase them off the gen, down them using the 12 seconds of aura(from LP bonus) AND keep the other players off that gen.
I guess Blight can do this. I guess Wesker on a little map.
IDK what to do with that perk at this point.
Honestly, it won’t even be Pain Res that’s complained next. It’ll be Overcharge taking the place of Eruption, which will cause people to complain heavily about that and CoB, saying how they’re costless and take no skill, especially when killers still play 3 gen games, which will cause Overcharge to spike in usage, be flown into the dev’s radar as meta, and nerfed to worthlessness alongside CoB. Yes, Overcharge, a perk that’s been out for over 5 years, and has never seen any sort of play until recently, nerfed to be even worse than before, and thrown back into the trash never to be used again like it was for several years before its buff. Even if I’m exaggerating, there’s no way Call of Brine makes it out alive when it’ll 100% get nuked in the next mid chapter update.
I wanted to say that, Myself and people I play with also had fun dodging Eruption.
As far as Behavior and motives and mastery of their craft...
lol
I made the mistake of assuming because 1 dude in there read his data accurately and didn't lie about it in public that as a team they had a republic sort of decision making process.
I'm the ******.
Hope you come back soon. Its sad when fair minded people leave games.
I personally never cared that I got dead handed for distance back in the day. But that didn’t mean the perk wasn’t broken. Eruption IS broken and IS a problem, solely because of incapacitation, and the fact you could (still can with this nerf too) get hit with eruption working in a gen previously kicked ages ago that was at 0, and then you’d be out of the game for 25 seconds. Things can be broken, regardless of your fun in dodging it or not.