Why kill rates are so high
Lately I've felt my kill rates have been very high, so I sought to find out why. I tracked 4 different sessions on the last patch (6.1.1), each spanning 5 games. I played Blight every game, no add-ons or offerings. My build was Shadowborn/Agitation/Pain Res/Tinkerer, and I did not camp or tunnel.
Combined results below:
-Average 8.9 downs per game
-Average of 4.1 times per game that a pre-patch Dead Hard would have gotten someone to an additional pallet or window
-Average 3.1 gens completed before first kill
-Average 3.1 kills per game (77.5%)
-Average of 1 forfeit (DC or suicide) every 3 games
-Average match length of 11 minutes (all values rounded to nearest minute)
These kill rates seem pretty high, but when put into context they're not as bad. I'll go into that more below:
-In the majority of my 4ks I noted exceptionally poor teamwork at points, like leaving someone to stage 2 or death, or not working on gens for extended periods.
-Dead Hard's nerf is likely a small factor in increased kill rates. I noted many instances in which I got downs off of mindgames that possibly could have been negated by DH pre-patch.
-The biggest factor in kill rate was match forfeits. When discounting all games in which someone forfeited, my kill rate was 61.7% across 15 games.
-When survivors work as a team and play efficiently, my games are still very competitive. I had a lot of really good players giving me a hard time, often with some really surprising builds.
61.7% isn't the huge jump everyone was expecting. In fact, it's fairly on-par with what you could expect from a Blight pre-patch. To be fair, I used no add-ons. That said, 61.7% isn't a big difference from what I at least felt like I was getting before, and I rarely ever used add-ons on Blight even before 6.1.0.
All-in-all, I believe the main factor in why survivors are doing so poorly right now are forfeits. When you have a nearly 16% difference in kill rate between when a survivor isn't throwing the match and when one is, that's probably the issue. If you have forfeits an average of every third game, of course kill rates are skyrocketing. So to the ragequitters out there, if you think a match is hopeless, it probably isn't. Don't DC every time you're losing, because if you do then you're the reason every match is hopeless.
Comments
@cluxdx (OP) stated that they did not camp or tunnel. Are you suggesting those who camp/tunnel are the ones skyrocketing the kill rates? That may be true, but the OP's evidence suggests there is more quitting and forfeiting going on. I think both sides, survivors and killer, need to take ownership.
What can developer do? Re-adjust so the game can be more fun for both sides. This is a tall order but is worth putting in the effort. I congratulate BHVR for bringing in some bold changes to the game in version 6. Lessons are being learned but I hope it doesn't put a damper on stepping up and bringing in bold new ideas. Some will be detrimental but when they find the sweet spots it will be amazing.
Blight
I'm going to play the BS Card on your estimation that 99% of killers run sweaty add-ons and camp. I think 20% is more believable.
Now, is camping higher than it was pre-patch? Definitely.
Its quite easy why the kill rates and forfeits have been higher.
So from a different angle, you could say SWF has been nerfed a tiny bit, while solo surv has been nerfed quite a lot. This is also a huge reason why people are leaving again. They basically only play when friends can play as there is no real reason to play solo anymore.
You will be when your Que times jump from instant to 20 min+
Queue times have already settled down to about 2 min average for killer and instant for survivor. These are similar to what the queue times were pre-SBMM.
We honestly don't know what the kill rates are until the devs release that information. Other than that, the link below is the only other information provided but based solely on users who input their game data into the website's database. I can't say for certain that this information is 100% accurate, but it seems to be on par with what BEhavior has been saying all along about kill rates.
https://nightlight.gg/killers
The survivors giving up is so ridiculous I literally can't 0K anymore no matter how hard I try. No, I'm not exaggerating. In this game I was going to play killer for a 0K farm game to make use of the bloodrush to level up my survivors since the grind is so much worse now. I hooked two people, the others disconnected and the two hooked people couldn't leave the hook. I literally couldn't do anything about it.
Last time I got warned for "naming and shamming" so hopefully this one will be sufficiently annonymized for our dear mods.
Dunno man, lots of doomposting recently but my queus are absolutely fine. 1-3 mins max and trust me i would have taken 5 just to be rid of old DH <3
Well I hated most when dh robbed my hit so Iframes where the biggest problem for me. I think they could tried keep the distance part but also make it bit smaller and maybe make it 2 time use and then permanently exhausted. Or keep old dh but with only 1 time use.
If they keep saying the same thing over and over, eventually it will be true!
Ok? It doesn’t change the fact that it’s hard countered by almost every killer who wants to tunnel, STBFL or just hitting you instantly. But I mean sure OTR is technically better. Doesn’t really matter since in this patch it’s infinitely times easier to tunnel than the old patch. Even if OTR is the “best anti-tunnel perk” you’re gonna die faster than if you had old DS and all the other changes before the patch.
That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. IMO while camping is stronger, it's not an effective strat to win in the vast majority of scenarios. Tunneling is in the exact same spot it was before. Point is I justified that my own kill rate was higher than normal while playing the exact way I normally do, and when adjusting for forfeits, that increase largely goes away. That's why I drew the conclusion that I did. People are like "OVER 60% KILL RATE WHILE NOT TUNNELING IS ABSURD!" and while you could certainly make that argument, my point was that is almost unchanged from my kill rate not camping or tunneling pre-patch to begin with.
And now it’s worse. No one, not s ingle person except killer mains pretending they play SoloQ would tell you that SoloQ wasn’t dead before the patch. The fact that BHVR is committing necrophilia on SoloQ is the problem. An already weak role getting worse. Nothing happens to SWF’s. Killers still run slowdown. Yes it’s been horrible and now it’s worse. I don’t get where you or other people are getting that from since survivors have been complaining about SoloQ for years.
Suddenly everybody got baby teammates more so than usual, Clown is kill switched, survivors drop more blood orbs (they still haven’t acknowledged it so shadow buff ig), and the BP inventive got broken. No I may not know for sure but using context clues you can see a pattern, and anybody who regularly plays SoloQ is going to tell you that the MMR and the teammates are definitely worse. Hell Scott Jund made a video mentioning how MMR is indeed broken/was broken. How do you raise a patch with multiple things getting bugged making SoloQ even worse. Double whammy.
But how is it easier to tunnel if every survivor you're tunneling has 2 health states compared to 1 in the past? You are making zero sense. I would genuinely make the case that because of OTR hook trades on the rescuer are more efficient than tunneling in the vast majority of scenarios.
And regardless you aren't addressing my point that while 62% seems like a lot, it's relatively on-par with what I was getting pre-patch playing the exact same way. I'm not making a "killer OP" or "survivor OP" argument, I'm making an argument that things aren't realistically that different.
And again, you are not getting camped and tunneled every game. Some killers play that way, some don't. Acting like every killer camps and tunnels is the same thing as all the killer mains on the forum going "I face nothing but comp sweat squads!" Realistically, the stats we see are probably less than half represented by camping and tunneling, and the majority are just people playing normally.
You seem like the type to throw your mother to the wolves so you can get away. Not a good philosophy to live by.
Well if I’m Nurse I just destroy them lol. As Blight I hit them off hook catch up in 2 seconds and down them again with 0 punishment. As Nemisis I hit them off hook and when they try vault/throw a pallet down I hit them with my tentacle since they’re probably infected already they’re going down instantly. As Huntress hatchet then down them in 2 seconds. As Trickster I knife them and keep knifing them or M1 2 seconds later to down them. As Deathslinger M1, shoot them, down. As Artist they might maybe actually get to a loop but I just place my crows and down them with those or I just M1 them after they have 0 other options since it’s a lose - lose. Clown I just bottle hit bottle hit then down. Again 0 punishment unless they’re already in a good loop. Which won’t mean much if I’m an anti loop killer or have STBFL.
Yes they have 2 health states but it doesn’t matter if you can delete those 2 health states instantly. Gens take longer, teammates are worse = no gens getting done. Chases are nerfed with the holding W being weaker and the recovery after hitting a survivor. You get less distance, even if you loop them you get less gens done even if your teammates are somehow good and know what a “gen” is. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand? Do you actually play survivor? If you’re getting tunneled regrades of perks you’re going to die. Unless you’re a comp player youre dead 99% of the time. It’s not rocket science.
Yea I know. Killers still run slowdown and survivors still run anti tunnel perks. Never said they weren’t the same. I agree with you on that. Just saying that tunneling is more effective with the 90 second gens and MMR being worse somehow on top of SoloQ getting an overall nerf.
For me I get tunneled with OTR and I die instantly beacuse like I said any mobility or anti loop killer is downing you and putting you on hook in the same breath. DS forced them to get hard punish regardless of killer. Mobility, ranged, and anti-loop killers are still obviously killing you in most situations but beacuse gen rushing and chases were a lot easier back then tunneling wasn’t as effective. Otz the killer god himself said tunneling and camping is more effective multiple times on stream and in his videos lol. OTR is good, just doesn’t do much against tunneling in this patch. Neither does base kit BT. It does absolutely nothing 99% of the time. In fact it’s even worse because instead of the killer maybe waiting those 8 seconds BT bought allowing you to get slightly more distance they know hit you immediately and down you again since you’re right in front of them and I’m not repeating how easy it is to down a survivor you’re tunneling.
Its an odd mindset that I've only seen in DBD so far that what is essentially a PUG group should be equivalent to a pre-made. The deficiency of pug randomness is in the quality of the player not the mechanics of the game. Somehow people can't seem to grasp this.
You could always wait out DH.
If DH was broken because it gave you 1 meter of distance, then maybe they should outright delete SB, Lithe, BL, Smash Hit, and Overcome.
did u ever play old DS? dude... the best anti tunnel perk they´ve ever had?? like McEnroe said: You cannot be serious!
Sure, but all of the things you listed you could already do before, and even more efficiently because they only had one health state as opposed to two. And I would reason that because gen slowdown perks are on average worse than before, hard tunneling is less effective because gen interrupts are more important than ever since you can't just hook the same guy twice, get two Pops after two Tinkerers, because both of those perks were nerfed heavily going into this patch. With Deadlock you might be better off, but with the extra health state I don't think those 10 seconds are a big deal.
Regardless, I think no matter what you do killers who want to tunnel will tunnel, and killers who want to camp will camp. I think there are reasonable adjustments they can make, but IMO the best solution to the camping and tunneling problem (and I will agree that it is a problem) is to add positive incentives to not doing those things, like adding BBQ's old BP bonus base-kit or factoring in hooks in MMR. Because killers and survivors know every kill and every escape is treated exactly the same according to the system, some will play as scummy as humanly possible because they know the game doesn't care.
I'd say this is some of the most logical and objective post patch feedback yet.
I think there is systemic problem of players DC'ing when they don't get what they want from a game.
Often its the more obnoxious of players whom engage in this kind of quitting and given the riskier nature of obnoxious play after the patch they are struggling to adapt. This is completely speculation of course.
Okay, it may be a slight exaggeration when compared to OLD old DS, but compared to pre-6.1.0 5 second DS, I think OTR is just better.
If you have a functioning brain then you will have fun. I had a couple games where my teammates had the intelligence of a pebble yet i still had fun for most of them because i in fact do have a functioning brain and don't suck at the game.
Yes but I survive more than a minute guaranteed. Not just 10 seconds. Health states don’t really mean much if you can just delete those health states in 5 seconds. I’m not explaining that again. A tombstone Myers doesn’t care if your healthy kind of like that. 2 health states in theory is nice bus it doesn’t matter when it can be taken away so easily. Just hit off hook catch up hit again. DS you get hit off you stun them or you get slugged for a minute giving your team some time to either pick you up or do some gens. OTR does not grant the same protection. Like I said in theory it’s better in practice imo it’s most definitely not.
Yea. Can’t stop that. Put you can insentivize people away from it. Thus anti tunnel perks being meta.
“SoloQ is as strong as SWF” - Nobody who plays this game
Add more communication options for SoloQ. Done. Solves a lot of problems. Now you just need to solve the ######### MMR problem broken or not it’s bad. Then the game is actually playable.
When killers are no longer a threat the game just becomes skill check simulator so while i do think they went a little bit overboard in time i see them scaling back a few of their nerfs. Its just that not enough of a sample size was found with their beta so they are forced to put the patches into live for testing.
Which is why I said solve the MMR problem right afterwards. Anybody with half a brain is gonna take advantage and play better then without comms. It’s brining SoloQ and SWF closer without buffing SWF.
Yep not like you get free kinderd, know the exact location of killer 24/7, can coordinate saves to maximize gen time, know where each other are at all times so they don’t have to waste time trying to figure out where they are to coordinate heals, and completely counter any stealth killer power except ig Wraith unless they have flashlight. All things SoloQ can do easily and are totally equal to that of a SWF.
“Comms don’t do much in DBD in most cases.” - No one ever.
Yea knowing where the killer is at all times pretty useless. Wouldn’t do ANYTHING useful during a match. They should host tournaments without comms. Although for some reason everybody including any good DBD streamer says that comms do in fact change multiple things but who are they to talk they only play the game for a living. And a lot of them are even chosen to be representatives of the community but what do they know imma right
After seeing your comments in other threads. Bravo, you got me. I thought you were serious. You got me haha. Pretty good troll tbh
Yea I'm sure you would have.
Forfeits is representative of an extremely stale and unbalanced game. If it happens a lot. This is why devs should never dismiss DCs because it shows an underlying problem. If a player will actually DC or forfeit, it means they think the game is unwinnable and a match should never make a player feel that way.
you don't know what a hyperbole is, right?
Waiting for 5 mins to have an enjoyable experience? Naaah i for sure cant do that <3
Im genuinely enjoying the game very much and its hilarious how much thats bothering you. Get well soon buddy
Just hold on to that warm feeling when this game completely tanks.
Information is the only thing that makes SWF better than Solo Q. That being said, a 100 hour SWF isn't stronger than 1000+ hour Solo Q. Knowing how to utilize the information and assess the situation are important skills that you don't just automatically gain by playing in a SWF.
WHAT? You’re telling me that people with 10x more experience in the game are better? Get tf outta here with that BS. You’re telling me that relatively speaking the more you play the game, the better you are? No, absolutely not. No way, absolutely impossible. A quantum computer wouldn’t even be able to process that even if it were running for YEARS, DECADES.
Settle down there bud. Gonna have a stroke with all that sarcasm. I'm saying that SWFs are not this big bad the community makes them out to be. Oh no, it's a SWF, they must be a bully squad. They must be out to ruin the killer's game. It can't just be that they want to have fun playing a game together.
Solo Queue sucks, and half of the reason is bad teammates. The other half is a lack of information. If solo queue had access to the same level of information a SWF does, they'd be able to make informed decisions but they wouldn't magically be any better at the game. It's the same deal with a relatively new SWF. Communication isn't going to make up for their lack of experience.
The game has been completely tanking since day one eh buddy : )
I think ill continue enjoying the ######### out of the game.
You can continue being miserable by yourself if you so choose : D
By myself? You don't look around much do ya? There's an entire forum of people who feel exactly the same as I do about the state of this game.
Oh cool you guys can be miserable together <3
Well duh, that's what forums are for. ;)
There are many reasons why the Kill rates are "higher"...
Maps not being balanced is one thing...
The Devs messing up Gen times and Gen speeds... also Gen regression not getting changed but Killers base chase did get changed
Also the game being a 1V1V1V1V1 instead of a 4V1
Coding also has something to do with it (cause if they had better coding some of the issues wouldn't be an issue)
90% is bad teammates. Information is also a key factor but the fact I’m getting teammates that don’t even know how to unhook or which button it is to fix a gen; hell they don’t even know HOW to do a gen is the most annoying part. Just give me a team that isint trying to do a 4K any % speed run as survivor
I wholeheartedly disagree with that. The majority of my forfeits come very quickly into a match, often in my first chase if someone happens to go down just a little too fast. Quite literally the first DC I got in my data collection was off a locker grab 30 seconds into the game. The match was obviously still very winnable by that point.
Even my late-game DCs are usually in very winnable situations, with the exception of someone DCing after another forfeit. Even looking at my own stats you could see the majority of my DCs considerably shifted the tide of my matches considering a 16% difference in kill rate when factoring in those games vs. when not.
And it's not the game making people feel like it's unwinnable in the majority of cases, it's their own perception. You can't fix their perception. Most of my DCs are ragequits. Some are not, but when they aren't it's usually because someone else griefed them (i.e. bodyblocking or not saving them) at least in my experience. Those DCs are rarely representative of actual game balance.
It is though. If a player feels they have a chance they will stay in the match. Have you ever considered that your perception of their perception not being relevant flawed?
This is what's wrong with the game, survivor fun and fair game is completely disregarded.
Way too much is expected from survivors. Most of the time the winning conditions is nowhere close to being attainable.
My brother in Christ, survivors just went through the first meta change in years. DH, BT, DS, and quick gens have been around for a very long time.
And got nothing to replace it with.
Killers on the other hand received a royal feast. Massively buffed all across the board, camping was buffed, longer gens, buffed gen regression, buffed aura perks.......
Killers literally win on auto pilot now.