I Think People Are Missing The Point Of 6.1.0.
While there are a few things that probably need to be tweaked (put DS back to 5 seconds, Nurse needs a look), the major argument seems to boil down to 'I'm not escaping as much as I was'.
That...is the point of the patch.
BHVR has access to data we don't.
According to them, kill rates weren't high enough.
They thus adjusted them by buffing killers.
Naturally, you won't be escaping as much as before!
Comments
Probably because toxic survivor players switched to playing killer. That is the best explanation I can think of.
As a killer main, I can't help but shake my head and smirk at the unreal amount of face-camping when I do play survivor. There is no way seasoned killer players would suddenly switch their playstyle to the 'shameless no-skill' setting after the update which admittedly makes it easier to be a killer that doesn't camp.
It is behavior that is quite dishonorable and very unnecessary.
OTR is a pretty solid counter to tunneling.
DS nerf, sure. 5 seconds is fine.
DH nerf was 100% needed, this perk was obnoxious.
The chase changes were intended as a buff to the weaker killers. Nurse needs a nerf, Blight needs some addons tweaked. Aside from this pair, I think we're mostly good.
Camping needs a look.
No, no they weren't.
Not unless you're talking about the gross kill stats we were given that mean sweet sod all - as they are completely thrown off by newer players.
The devs have their own stats and they explicitly stated that the reason things were changed was that kill rates weren't high enough.
2020 Killers: 'Man, killer is tough. It's really unfair how survivors like to deliberately go down where you can't pick them up and everyone is running OoO or DS. Survivor is such an easy role'.
Survivors: 'lul l2p, stop the us versus them, DS and OoO r fine, u just bad'.
2022 Survivors: See Above.
2022 Killers: 'Man, it's hard to resist saying it...'.
Here's the thing.
There was a time when DS didn't deactivate on much, so it worked as basically an extra life. That was busted.
However, DS is also an essential bandaid right now to discourage hard tunneling. At 3 seconds, it's no longer an effective bandaid.
5 seconds BT is far from useless.
So... breath of the wild? Lol
It's 10 extra seconds. STOP.
A lot of the complaints I'm seeing are valid. Lots of killers who aren't very skilled are now being rewarded by the double-whammy of basekit buffs ontop of survivor nerfs. It's generally a bad idea to do too many things at once, which is what the devs have done.
I get that the devs want to increase kill rates, but they should've nerfed dead hard and made DS deactivate once the gates are powered to start with and seen how much kill rates improved from there. The devs clearly identified a problem, skipped the cause of said problem and jumped straight to the solution.
The game simply got boring. You spend at least 5 minutes per gen if the killer camps gens and runs slowdown and regression perks. And that's if you can manage to repair any at all.
Did you know there is other gens that you can repair lul
Seems you lot know how to find these totems you have trouble doing when you want a circle of healing or exponential boon up for you but can't seem to have time for them any other time how convenient. I run a perk that actually helps me find totems to cleanse its not a bad perk you should look into it :)
Gens take 10 seconds longer and you can't even get a single gen done? Seems like a skill issue tbh.
I literally do not understand what your point is.
I do not think you understand what mine is either.
Let's not elaborate on them.
Standard Deviation isn't very hard dude. Sorry if graphs scare you.
Balance is a give and take, so if people feel like BHVR made the wrong call, I do not blame them for expressing their concerns/opinions.
The devs could have still gotten what they wanted (higher killrates) via other methods that didn't include holding M1 longer on a generator. What about just making individual buffs to killers who need it? As an example. Which they didn't do. They did a flat buff to all killers (those who did not need it included) making other issues that were already obnoxious to begin with like Camping and Tunneling.
This was a huge missed opportunity on their part to do something more innovative, rather than keeping already frustrating playstyles and mechanics. So I guess if taking the fun out to bring killrates higher was the goal, then sure, that they did accomplish.
As someone who has often been on their side and fully supported them, I can still say that this patch was a mistake for the most part, and I couldn't be more disappointed.
It’s pretentious. You can provide a graph and simply explain what it says.
Please explain how a perk who's primary effect can be disabled as soon as you're unhooked, and who's secondary effects encourage the person running it to play like a Blendette for 80 seconds, is just as, let alone more, effective then pre-6.1.0 DS
go ahead, i'll wait
did you even read my comment or do you simply reply?
Most of the good gen slowdown perks were nerfed, and the other ones are still less than optimal. Against a good SWF team, gens still fly. The only thing they really need to do now is buff solo queue survivors SPECIFICALLY SOLO QUEUE in a way that does not buff SWF.
Sure.
While i have no disagreements with any of your points, consider the following
OTR can be disabled as soon as you get unhooked due to the deep wounds from basekit BT, making it's "Anti-Tunnel" basically moot
OTR's other effects (IW and Aura-Reading immunity) will do nothing if the killer is already experienced in dealing with IW/you run into a area with no cover (quick edit i just realised, OTR also doesn't hide your scratch marks or your blood, so the killer can still track you, kind of pointless since DS also didn't hide your blood or scratch marks but i figured I'd point it out just to show how little OTR actually does in helping you get away)
OTR's other effects also encourage playing like a Blendette for 80 seconds since they get disabled if you progress the game, meaning that survivors will more often then not do nothing to help their team until the perk ends, or at least a hefty amount of time into it's duration, and any perk that encourages doing nothing and screwing your team over in order to get value out of is bad by default
If you get slugged with DS and the killer knows you have it, you can still try and get away and recover or get a teammate to help you, as soon as you go down with OTR, it becomes useless to you, as the killer can just freely pick you up
Yeah maybe for the best....wow....lol
Just curious do you do anything in this forum but complain about how hard it is to be a survivor now??? See you in every one of these complaining, maybe if you spent as much time playing the game as you do complaining here you might actually improve your game.....Just saying.....
Guess I need to play harder. Maybe if I dont sleep, eat and drink?
Why does tunneling and camping need to be looked at? Tunneling is a fantastic strategy to not only make survivors panic, but also lower their numbers so gens don't get done as fast. However, most survivors don't want to get better at the counter to tunneling - stealth.
Camping is only useful if you can guarantee that people will go for the save. A lot of survivors want camping "fixed" because they don't think they should be punished for unsafe rescue's or that the hooked person somehow deserves to be unhooked for a second chance.
I'm not saying that either is pleasant for the survivor who has this done to them, but if you want an easy ride with no challenges maybe play "Let's Build a Zoo" instead (fun game btw).
Why do people assume playtime = skill lol it really does amuse me just like people still think rank actually means skill...You have done nothing i will state NOTHING but complain and cry over this patch maybe check the other thread your also complain hence just this one post you complain about DH and BT and what not
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/338305/i-think-this-patch-shows-a-lot-about-survivors/p3
I have no problems with soloq so yeah maybe you need to do more than just complain seriously you got 5 times more hours than me and seem to be struggling more, and i am not the best survivor in the game lol but yet here we are your crying over it because what you spent 5k hours relying on one perk like dead hard most likely and do not know how to adapt to change instead you just want the whole patch reverted because your not getting your way like a typical entitled survivor....get over it ...yes i am being direct because unlike most you yet to give any form of constructive reasoning apart from your tired of tunneling and camping where others actually have tried to give you valid reasons and you give nothing but 1 line responses which are meanigless.
As you have said to others you need to humble yourself
Anyhow i am done with you i said my peace i am not about to continue this with you as it is obvious talking to you is like talking to a brick wall your set in your way of thinking and in no way is anybody going to change it because you just want the easy wins
Have a great day / evening
10 extra seconds for each gen and that's without all the slowdown perks killers love to use. It's a buff to camping/tunneling as well. NO, I won't stop until SoloQ players get the buffs they desperately need. Next
I've said many times that this update hurt solo players the most.
You typed too much and I dont care enough to read it all since it will probably be all meaningless about "hours dont matter" but then I'm sure you'd have a problem if you got new players on your team and say MMR is bad.
Because this is a VERY common thing for killers to do and it makes the game miserable to play. Things like that need addressed.
Right, but the reality is a god SWF group is still gonna get 5 gens done in 4 minutes and be teabagging at the exit gates in no time. The point is and always has been that they need to fix solo queue to deal with the gap between solo and SWF and buff killers to make SWF more bearable for a killer to play against.
thank you for proving my point, you dont add anything constructive to any post unless it favours your point and your not crying about soloq have a great day
How many times do you guys see god swf groups? Not very often. We can't balance the game around them.
If you can't see why OTR is better that probably explains why you're so frustrated with the update.
So, regardless of whether it's a good strategy for killers it needs to be changed because it's "not fun" for survivors?
I understand the frustration of things like that happening to you, it's happened to me many times. Again though, both camping and tunneling can be relatively easy to counter. It just requires the survivors to be smarter and stealthier.
Just because something is a good strategy doesn't mean it should stay. Have you seen all of the complaining on the forums about camping/tunneling? It's miserable to play survivor right now. You don't see any issues with this?
Survivors have complained about camping/tunneling since release. It's not new.
Before this patch, tunneling was really the only viable strategy because gens were popped so fast you had to have an amazing start to do anything. However, after playing a few games of solo, I do think they have a good baseline to at least look and see if camping can be mitigated. From what I've seen, this patch basically gives killers more time to pressure survivors and options beyond tunneling/camping.
On a fundamental level, my issue is saying "fix camping/tunneling" without acknowledging that these were the only "viable" ways to play killer for a long time. And putting the blame on killers is ridiculous.
I'm not saying I support camping/tunneling. But killers need other options before they can be addressed, so hopefully this patch does that. Since killers aren't as pressured for time now.
Edit: I appreciate being able to have a civil debate with someone on the forum. It's rare, so it's nice. Keep being an awesome human being!
Since the patch I'm bored as a killer, 4 kill easy vs soloq, the survivor soloq has become unplayable. I even find myself letting 1 to 2 survivors escape per game voluntarily so as not to disgust the survivors who play soloq.
You've created a perfect patch for dumb killers, easy tunneling...
There is no actual stealth anymore to "counter" tunneling.
Personally I'm glad they are trying to shake things up but they addressed a lot and left some things out. I could care less about winning with either side but I do care about being able to play. From my POV playing survivor has a few good games here and there but in the majority of my matches it seems like I'm either never unhooked or the killer stares at me so that I can't be unhooked. This seems to keep me at a low mmr pairing me with new players as well. So it doesn't get any better.
Don't get me wrong I get aggravated and occasionally dc or let my self go on hook. It isn't anything that I wasn't having issues with before the patch though. Except that tunneling seems to be a bit worse and I get matched up with more and more newer people than before.
My biggest issue really isn't the game updates at all. It's been since around the time MMR was implemented. With the old system I could at least play how I wanted, pip up, and not be stuck with or playing against new players.
How many times do you see a god nurse? not very often. we can't balance the game around them.
I agree solo needs buffs and agree the slow downs stacking is annoying. Thanatophobia honestly should have been nerfed not buffed. But to say revert the gen speed is a complete joke. Good survivor teams still pound these gens out like it's nothing. The 80s gens were way to fast and the 90s kinda is to. What they should have done is kept gens the same for solos and increase the times for swfs. The swf coordination just simply makes the gens look like a complete joke to complete.
Stealth still exists but if listening to a terror radius or hiding in a locker/bush is too difficult there are perks like Spine Chill and Distortion
It's easy to do and takes no skill, someone else will get tunnelled instead, unless everyone is doing the same thing (doubtful in soloQ) in which case enjoy your long boring game.
I rarely complain about Nurse. Your point?
Camping when gens are done is fine... I do it sometimes. Camping/tunneling someone out quickly (even at 5 gens) makes for a miserable game. I blame the devs mostly for allowing this crap to happen, not to mention they made it even easier after the update. Even nerfed DS.
Sorry i not getting into this but this community is truly full of entitlement in my opinion this is the only game i have ever come accross that people complain so much about people not letting them have fun the way they want it or allow them to have easy wins and be spoon fed victories. Camping and Tunneling been part of every PVP game out there what makes DBD so different or precious to think it shouldn't happen here....
I personally as i said don't do it but i am not going to tell others not too...Be like me saying oh remove torches so survivors cant bully me and continually blind me or stop them from body blocking....Survivors can do what they want but god forbid a killer does something the survivor dislikes.
My point is, you can't balance around the average player, otherwise things would be even worse than they are. Take a look at the most recent statistics they released:
Now again, these statistics are a bit old, and likely outdated, but they come from 2021-22 and i believe are the most recent official data we have. I think given that since then they have buffed legion since this data for example, you could probably argue that anything below legion needs a buff and anything above needs a nerf.
So are you saying that, due to the fact that nurse is BY FAR the worst kill rate killer in the game, that we should buff her? Conversely, it looks like pig is pretty far up there. Seems like we need to nerf the pig right? Or better yet, even myers. His kill rate is only .67% less than the pig. Myers is definitely super OP and needs a nerf right? Or maybe trapper?
It was often criticized that Deathgarden main issue is that the hunter was TOO powerful in skilled hands. DBD is falling down the same rabbit hole where some reason the devs wants to blindly increase killrates without any consider at all of survivors fun or how well really good killers already perform.
DBD is going to die if BHVR doesn't stop looking at the game as some kind of perfect symmetrical game. It isn't fun or practical.
Was the point to make us play other games? Because if it was job well done, otherwise no.
You can't expect to win as much as before.
If that's a dealbreaker, then yeah - maybe another game would be a better call.
'Fun' is subjective. And in a PvP game, 'fun' generally comes down to 'I win'. Both sides can't win. If killers kill more, survivors have less 'fun'. But killers also need to have fun.
DbD is going to die, like every game that has ever existed. Numbers look decent now, and we'll likely see another surge when RE chapter comes out. That said, while balance will never be perfect - it's still important.
Bingo.
Survivors can't have fun if they feel they can't win. With the odds totally against them with a skilled killer and also against it on average, this really means survivor fun is discounted altogether.
Wat.
Survivors absolutely can still win. I've been watching HCS streams today, and survivors are smashing faces right now, especially with the new OTR.
The issue is that I...think you're misunderstanding your win state.
You escaping is not a win.
You dying is not a loss. It's about how many people escape.
What you are describing sounds like you want the majority of games to be a 0k. Would that be fair to killers?
It's actually been months since I've had a 0K, as survivor. (It only happens against a farming killer.)
It would be nice if 0Ks happened about as much as 4Ks. My perception of the game would be so much better.
I’m not frustrated with the update in the slightest, i just think OTR is a poor substitute for DS