Scott Jund's take on being tunneled
https://youtu.be/YgylLJbGmlA
I thought it was a pretty good video and, in my opinion, most people playing survivor are in the they want a bit of gens, bit of being chased, bit of a break from being chased off hook, repeat.
I'm in that group too but I do have to admit I like stacking OTR with DS for the satisfaction of knowing that if I'm tunneled I'm extremely annoying to tunnel and there's a very good chance the Killer threw the entire game to get me.
Also, the build mentioned of OTR, Overcome and Quick and Quiet sounds pretty cool.
Comments
Where? Where did I say that? I said "if you don't like doing gens and you don't like interacting with the killer you don't like DBD" which is pretty damn true. Nowhere did I insinuate you had to like tunneling. I was just boiling tunneling down to its base mechanic to maybe change a perspective or two.
Not Jund, but can you point out where he said that?
Did you maybe said that in your "Let's Talk About Tunneling" video? Maybe you threw it in somewhere and just don't remember it.
I didn't say that. Content creators curse. People will argue about ######### I didn't even say
Problem is that some only want to escape themselves and don't care about the team. This is why some absolute hate to get tunneled, even if they are the reason the team wins. Selfish players are a big problem in DBD I mean when we are hooked in the end game how often have we not seen these players that just leave you behind when they could have saved?
Back then you were supposed to use a Pallet as a way to stun the killer and then have them break it. There was much more foliage and maps were much darker. Hiding and loosing the killer in the chase. Hence why back before all the second chance perks, Iron Will was meta and so was Lightweight. Today's DBD is VASTLY different than back then. The only looping back then was the old True Infinites. Then Patch 1.4.0 came out and the Looping each and every pallet came about. in the Stealth days, Wraith was king. In the Looping days, Trapper was king cause he could shut down loops. (to a degree of sorts).
Bro I could make a video about how I like peanut butter and there will be a thread with peanut butter activists and peanut butter deniers at each others throats, it's pretty funny.
Hit the nail on the head. If the killer is guaranteeing a kill, why wouldnt a survivor give up on the match to move on to another game. After all its a guaranteed death as u say. Exactly the problem with camping summed up.
No effort comment.
What I don't understand is why everyone can see that tunneling-at-gen-5 and camping-at-gen-5 is horrible for the game. It runs new players off, it runs 1k+ hour players off and it's not even fun for the killer. It's just bad all around and yet it's been in the game 6 years. And this patch literally was a buff to both of these tactics.
I can think of a multitude of ways to fix it. A game developer, should even have more ideas that I have. I just don't get it.
BTW, love your content. Glad you came back to doing DBD videos again.
For the sake of argument: unless it's a Bubba, it's not a guaranteed kill. It's an uphill battle to get a camped teammate off the hook and out, but man is it gratifying.
Also, I'll hang on as long as I can to buy time for my teammates, even if I am doomed. Wasting as much of their time as I can is what little I can do to punish the camper.
This.
I'd also like to add that whenever Scott plays survivor, he doesn't play 'to win', unlike when he plays killer. He mostly ######### around and tries dumb stuff, which is totally ok if he wants to. However, that makes his opinion less agreeable with, simply because he doesn't take the game 'as seriously' as when he plays killer, where he actively tries to win most of the times.
Edit: I actually realized you said exactly the same thing. I just somehow skipped the short paragraph where you also point out that he plays to win when he plays killer (probably because scrolling on phone)! Ok so basically i just repeated exactly what you said, but I literally have the same thoughts on the matter.
Also, another thing that he didn't address in the video, or addressed poorly, is when he said that people might want to "take a break" between one chase and the other. It's not only that, it's the fact that survivors NEED to take breaks in order to gain bloodpoints from other activities. The only thing a killer needs to not do to end the game with less than 10k bps is basement facecamp. They can literally tunnel people out off hook and still end their game with 25k bps at least. Meanwhile a survivor getting tunneled all game ends his match with what, 8k bps? Or even less. That's literally a whole waste of a game.
The moment you are a public figure (in the DBD comunity content creators are public figures, it is what it is) wathever statements you make will be scrutinized, if you dont want a personal opinion scrutinized by the comunity you cant make a video where you express it because we will comment on it, some will show support and agree, others will show disent and disagree.
Its sad but is how being a public figure works, especially if you talk about contentious subjects.
Sadly most people just give up, If i'm dying i'm gonna waste their time
you want it word for word? you gotta be kidding me
i simplified what he said directly to him, he knows what I'm talking about, he's just pretending he didn't mean it.
But who said if you don't like being tunneled you automatically don't like interacting with the killer? You said that in your video.
The survivor roles are = interact with the killer + do gens + totems + chests + help team mates
but you said "if you don't like doing gens and don't like bein tunneled, maybe you don't like the game"
didn't you say that?
So it's that all DBD is about? either you do gens or you get tunneled out of the game to the next match, right?
People just love to infer what they feel you mean instead of just listening to what you actually say.
One of life's finer frustrations, and being in position of perceived authority no doubt magnifies this.
Again, where? Please timestamp in my video where I said "if you don't like being tunneled, maybe you dont like the game." You keep repeatedly making stuff up. Please stop.
I disagree. Taking 2 perks to safeguard yourself from the woes of soloqueue PLAYERS is fine (note I said players. You're safeguarding against scummy teammates who dont care about you, not the game, not the killer). That's fine with me. When I play soloqueue I know when I'm going in with an altruistic build vs a self-serving one. I'm willing to accept the risks. It's not BHVR or a killer's fault that your teammate would rather hide in a locker than body block or help you off a hook. Also, I don't ever bring DS and OTR. I bring OTR as my safeguard because an 80 second protection is insane and lets me do whatever I want as my next action.
It's not guaranteed. There could be a comeback. If people give up it encourages more camping. It's really satisfying when there's a turn around. You are hurting the other survivors by giving up than you are hurting the Killer.
That's five reasons not to give up
I'd let you spit on me IRL just so you know.
100 percent agree
oh hell no, I ain't watching that again so you can get the satisfaction
you don't look like a fool so don't pretend being one
I think that's a pretty disingenuous look on how I play the game. You imply I don't try my hardest to win as survivor, which implies I do try my hardest to win as killer, which as anyone that watches me play killer can attest, that is completely untrue. The truth is I don't try hard to win in any aspect of the game because I don't enjoy that. Frankly I think more people would have fun with DBD if they cared a bit less about it. I still try to win all of my matches, but not if it comes at the detriment to my fun.
What an absolutely weird comment. Just admit you're making stuff up, don't like that you got called out on it, and move on.
I'll make the same comment here that I made on his video, but expand a bit. If you hate being tunneled, you're LIKELY not efficient at looping. I hated being tunneled until I knew how to handle it. And once you know how to loop, you're likely not going to be tunneled, unless a killer wants to practice their chasing against a good survivor.
Your comments are exactly why Scott made his initial comment.
Debates on this forum get twisted by random injectors for zero reason other than to start drama.
This is a poor place to discuss his video because people on this forum are prone to provide their opinions with little-to-no grounds in reality.
The first page/page-and-a-half of replies were offering some good insights in response to Scott's video--focused more on their own personal experiences, rather than trying to put words in Scott's mouth. Every reply since then (this one included) might as well be deleted, because they're offering nothing more of substance to the original conversation.
Yeah, cause putting a cake offering on and walking out with 5k points instead of 30k is great
so you didn't say that you liked being tunneled cause that was an interaction with the killer but people complain about that and about doing gens, so maybe, they didn't like the game?
you didn't say that anywhere in your video?
I'm completely appalled by this streamer's lack of honesty
I won't watch the video again to clip what you said, cause I don't want you to benefit from it so I'll just gtfo
Ah see you have now completely changed your sentence. I did say that. Before, three times you equated interacting with the killer and being tunneled as being the exact same thing, which implies I said "that must mean you have to like being tunneled', which I did not say. I am not being dishonest, you are just completely failing to understand what I said or are purposely being disingenuous to save face.
He said that if you don't like sitting on gens and you don't like interacting with the killer, you probably don't like DBD. Anything beyond that is inference.
For what it's worth, I've always thought of DBD as "Hide and Seek" with death. It's thrilling to evade the killer by a whisker and outplay them in a silent dance of search and hide. You have to return to somewhere the killer would expect you to be, but a lot of the game is in that play between getting caught and not, because the punishment for getting caught is death.
Don't get me wrong, it's still fun to be chased by a killer and try to escape, but by the design of the game that's supposed to be harder rather than easier. People say looping is easy and escaping is fairly likely if you're half decent, but I really have to ask, after playing four years and for over 650 hours, who is that comment aimed at? Sure I have to git gud, but I'm not terrible by any means. If a killer decides they have to have you, by nature of the game they're supposed to be able to do that.
That's where tunnelling and camping is weird. It's not an exploit and it's not against the gameplay, it's just unsportsmanlike. We all know it is. That person isn't really there to play, if they were, there are tons of fun things you can do in dbd and still dominate, and I really think the buffs were made to reflect that.
tl;dr: It isn't just the chasing and gens, it's the hide and seek that's a large aspect of the game.
I don't even think it's even worth debating this, it's my word against yours on how *you* play the game
I just want to say that I didn't imply you try your hardest on killer or don't try your hardest on survivor. I said that you take the game less seriously when you play survivor, which is different. When you play killer you play a lot more efficiently than when you play survivor, where as said earlier you often go for dumb plays and stuff that can effectively hinder your team
We could also argue that when playing killer there is a lot less freedom under that point of view, because there effectively aren't many creative ways to try and fool survivors and outplay them as there are on the opposite side, so you end up playing mostly in a normal way
If you still think that's not true I don't know what to say, that's the impression you give me whenever I watch your channels. Don't get me wrong this is in no way criticism to your gameplay, it's just why I don't agree with your video
Also, you didn't comment on the second part of my first post, something that I feel you failed to mention properly in your video, but that imho still plays an important role on the tunneling aspect
Eh even then I don't think its a fair correlation. I still absolutely try to escape every map, with whatever build. However, I don't mind doing a reckless end-game save, for example, if I know I can get a teammate out. Trying to win as killer and trying to win as survivor don't really have a 1:1 correlation like that because one of those involves a whole team. I actually play as efficient as possible on survivor, always separating and working on separate generators, not immediately hook diving, etc.
Still, you touched up on that on your second paragraph so I don't really think we're debating anything, its just how you view my gameplay and that's perfectly fine, just wanted to give my take.
Oh and you are totally right about the blood point thing that I failed to address in my response. No argument there tunneling results in less.
"It's true that if you're being tunneled and killed early it's likely that you're not very good... Right now the best strategy for a killer who wants to win is to pick out the weakest survivor and get them out of the game as fast as possible."
I refuse to assume that a player inherently isn't good/skilled when I see them get tunneled. Because tunneling leaves 2 options: either get killed off without a chance, or god loop. It's an unfair double-bind to claim tunneled players aren't good—particularly early match tunneling. And a lot of killers just stick to one person regardless of whether thy can down them fast or end up in a 5gen chase.
Most good players IMO are still screwed by tunneling, unless god-looping streamers are what you consider the benchmark for good players. At times I've been tunneled out early, and I've also looped 5 gens getting camoed and tunneled off hook. For both of those outcomes, I don't believe that I or anyone should be considered "not very good." I (or anyone tunneled) was just a player put in to a crummy situation, and no one's skills should be based on whether or not it pays off to tunnel them.
I agree with Scott's take, but for a different reason: I'm more confident in my ability in chases than I used to be, and i run windows. If I'm getting tunnelled, i can route between pallets better due to windows, and not have to worry about when to predrop one because nobody else will need them until after i get downed. Then they get forced into that sunk cost issue he mentioned and i've done my job.
Hot Take: Gens are fun and a relaxing thing to do after work for and the ding of a completed gen hits the ocd button in my brain.
As far as my take on tunneling personally I think it creates ######### up pacing in the game where you're always in a state of stress for an entire game and therefore makes the game unfun, it's the same reason playing monster sucks in VHS where there is never moment you get to stop and think about a plan of action it's just always do the thing right now or die. Also I disagree getting tunneled is the same as not being tunneled but still getting chased a lot if you get unhooked in a dead zone and they're camping you just go down with no meaningful input on your part because you have no resources around you and I don't understand how anyone could find that fun.
Wish people would stop referencing that guy, people need their own brains.
Well, often chase is considered going from full health to down and having some time inbetween to wind down a bit as you have to make a lot of decisions in a short amount of time, its this time that you tend to sit on gens, do totems or search chests, and most importantly determine your next path ahead, bait the killer where you want the killer to go. The wind down time is the most important part of making chases fun.
Tunneling doesnt have a wind down time and removes the ability to determine your next path. Especially not in games where you dont have comms and thus dont know if certain areas have pallets or not. Tunneling removes all the fun parts around the chase.
People comparing tunneling and chase as if they are the same do not understand the fundamentals of survivor chase.
Pretty sure this isn't a new hot take that no one has ever considered or been of the opinion of before. Also seeing his vid and then deciding if you agree with him or not, is literally using your own brain.
I personally agree with him to an extent. I don't mind getting chased by the killer, that's part of the game. If they're chasing me than ostensibly my teammates are doing generators since they are not being chased. What's annoying is if I spend all my time getting chased and taking one for the team and then in that time only like 1 generator got done. Like #########, it was all for nothing.
Other times it can be annoying to spend all your time in a chase right off the bat if you came into the match with a healing build or a stealth build or a booning build and you wanted to do *this thing* but you spend all your time having to do *that thing* and you never got a chance to try out the stuff you wanted to do so your items and add ons were just wasted.
That's annoying, but if I was able to buy the rest of the team a win by keeping the killer busy, then that's just part of the game.
I don't know why people care about streamers opinions on this stuff. Chances are he's in the top what, 1% 3%? Do you think his experience in any way represents much of the community? That's like when politicians worth 100 million usd talk about their economic woes.
At the end of the day, he has an opinion and is allowed to share it. Most of the time, people who reference a known figure's opinion is because they themselves already had the same opinion and are just using the known figure to expand upon points they didn't specify.
That's like saying chasing survivors Is the best part of killer but weirdly gets frustrated when 3 loops connect into one another.
Specifics matter.
Being chased after unhook where the chase could last 5-10 to being chased healthy is a much different experience
He is missing the complete point which is when you get tunneled it almost guarantees a loss (for the team, not just for you). I don't care about doing gens, I care about winning. If tunneling lead to a 3 man escape most of the time that would be fine. But tunneling someone out almost guarantees a 3k.
I agree somewhat, tunneling can be punished. But his point that chases are fun even when tunneling is dumb
I feel like there's a massive space between 'I enjoy chases' and 'I don't enjoy not having the opportunity to do anything else in the game'
I do agree with him in principle when he says "if you don't like being chased or doing gens you don't like playing the game" though it's a bit more than just "gens or chases", and that being chased is a fundamental part of the game that you need to engage in as a survivor.
However, survivors can also have other priorities. They can want more BP (which you don't get just by being chased, you need to do a bit of everything) or they have challenges that involve things like coop actions, totems or unhooks, which being tunnelled out flat out prevents you from doing.
That's usually the case when I get tunnelled out. A lot of the time I can successfully juke a killer for long enough that I feel my chase was 'worth it', but if I end that match with <10K BP, or I don't make any progress towards my challenges, I'm going to feel somewhat cheated.
Ultimately he is right though. If a killer couldn't decide to eliminate a survivor when they choose, if a killer is not stronger than a survivor in a 1v1 scenario, the game is fundamentally broken.
One possible consolation prize could be better BP score events.
When being chased or being camped, if another survivor completes a gen or heals another survivor, you get bonus 'distraction points' in the Objectives and Altruism categories respectively. This validates your sacrifice for the team.
SWF still need those to against tunneling. Its just they have info to push Gen much better to have at least 2-3 escape.
While the 3rd slot for Solo is either Bond or Kindred for info to coordinate unhooking...
I agree with this but its not always you getting tunneled. So 1/4 games you're sitting on gens all game with 0 interaction. Then if that person gets downed and out of the game instantly, im now forced to try and win the game on hard mode. If they don't im playing space bar simulator all game.
Pretty much and then people take it as gospel.