I don't see why people have issues with tunneling
I mean, have you ever seen a killer ask for a change to the default gen mechanics, that it should be locked for a set time every time after the survivor progresses 33% on it?
Asking for mechanics to hinder the killer's main objective by forcing them to change their target before completion every time they make a progress (hooking 4 different survivors to death) seems comparable to asking for mechanics to hinder the survivor's main objective(repairing 5 different generators to completion).
And there are perks to achieve somewhat similar results. Killers have Deadlock, and survivors have DS. I don't see why people aren't satisfied just by using those perks to counter opponents' play.
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It is a proven and effective way in which to mitigate the survivor's chances at escaping. You have to literally use absolutes to frame it the way you did, and the statement is still weak. Sure, some god-tier killers can probably consistently 4k, but that provides absolutely no reason to dock the rest of the killer player base for employing a tactic that has BHVR's seal of approval.
Nice try, though :)
Edit: to frame it in a way that remotely sounds maybe appropriate.
Gen-Rushing is when at least 2 survivors bring in BNPs and at least 2 survivors bring in Leadership. It's very rare.
What most people are calling gen-rushing is basically failure on the Killers part to manage their time correctly.
A killer tunneling a survivor out of the game is probably a Killer that doesn't understand how to manage their time correctly and are resorting to elementary school Killer tactics to play well beyond their skill level.
You know, the math for how fast gens pop has been done before, and I've never seen anyone define gen-rushing with that kind of specificity before.
Pretty sure the definition belongs to the consensus, in this case.
I never spoke for myself personally, but I certainly do a mix of things that include tunneling. Just like all the noteworthy streamers and comp players. If that means I have to suffer your criticism I'm sure I can live with that.
Because like my original post stated, show me the butthurt survivor.
Well, I'm saying that tunneling and genrush are both legit, and so therefore they don't get a say in what the other side does.
Spoken like someone who hasn't played killer in high mmr matches. Anyone can play without tunneling it's whether you want that 4k or not.
I think most killers agree with this. It doesn't matter if the chicken or the egg came first. We want it changed. If survivors want to genrush that should be their prerogative, but I think everyone would agree that it would make sense if there was more counterplay than eliminate 1/4th of the survivors as quickly as humanly possible - which IS the only counterplay right now. (Yeah, I know NoEd exists, it does nothing against competent survivors)
You don't have to look through much footage to find competent survivors eating through generators in spite of builds that aim for regression, postponement, gen denial, and yes, even tunneling. Genrushing is the norm, and it's extreme, and for the sake of the game's health killers need more options or genrushing needs to be nerfed.
60/40 killer/survivor, with plenty of soloQ play, since my giblets already sense the "KILLER MAIN" accusations coming.
Actually you can still get a 4K without tunneling it's just harder to do🙂
I always find it impressive how many people claim that anyone tunnelling "doesn't know how to play".
If you expressly go out of your way to never do so and somehow get consistent wins, maybe, but I don't think a single person playing the game counts at that point.
The key problem here, then, is your queue times.
That and the strange double standard where being in a chase is simultaneously the only fun thing in the match and the only skilled thing a Survivor can do, but the instant it's all they get to do it's bad because they get a short game.
Yes that's because you're probably playing against average survivors :)
There's a lot of people saying "gen-rushing" when it's Killer's mismanaging their time.
What is your definition of "gen-rushing" and how is it different from survivors just doing objectives?
To the first part: I don't think we agree. Survivors say it is killers mismanaging their time. Anyone can turn on a stream of a well-versed player and watch 2-3 gens pop as they down, or before they down the first survivor. It happens all the time, without prove thyself, and without overtuned toolkits.
To the second part: Survivors doing their objective as focused as possible IS genrushing. 4 survivors seat themselves on 4 gens, and 3 survivors continue as a single survivor gets identified and chased, that's it. The chased survivor using their resources appropriately means 3 gens pop before they go on the hook.
We don't want survivors to stop doing their objectives. I say it all the time from the Killer perspective, why should I let the survivors tell me how to play? What we want is for BHVR to balance it so that over 50% of a survivors objective isn't accomplished within the first 90 seconds of the game. It is simply not healthy.
Ah yes a know it all.
Sorry buddy it can be done
Yeah that's why in tournaments all the killers play nice and fair by not tunneling and camping, oh wait...
I don’t think you realize how tunneling is a bad strategy. That is a lot of the reason why killers get “genrushed” because they focus on the one person, turn around and 3 gens pop in their face. Then they want to complain because they felt like they got genrushed.
I am not saying there aren’t instances in which yeah, it does work…. But to tunnel the first person you lay your eyes on just “because “ it’s recipe for disaster.
So, by your definition, "gen-rushing" actually doesn't exist, because by your definition, "gen-rushing" is the exact same thing as survivors doing objectives.
And a meteor could also crash through the roof and remove you from participating in this thread.
When you use extreme generalizations to describe an outlier, you are being very disingenuous. No-one is arguing it can't be done, but the majority of the active participants on this forum understand what must be done to consistently play well as a killer - you appear to have missed the memo. Or you live in a fantasy world.
An idea can be known colloquially by two terms and still be accurate, my dude.
5k hours here and I think tunneling is boring. It has nothing to do with skill or not.
If we're gonna talk about skill... you're the one who's saying you can only get kills if you tunnel. When I play killer I can get kills even without tunneling, even when I play pig. So.
I'm not talking about some tournament, but if that's how you want to play go for it. All I was saying is you can 4K without tunneling sure your not going to 4K every match but it can be done.
You got me I confess
I am from another world
That is not the most efficient kind of tunneling. There are other things happening in a standard tunnel:
Effective tunneling is not what you described, and not what killers defend.
I am at a point now where I stopped having issues with tunneling. Now I just make it my main mission (in the game I am being tunneled) to loop the killers as much as I can and then get BT-rescued to the exit gate in the end game. Nothing more satisfying than having the killer think that he sucks at tunneling too, with out having to say it out loud. :D.
This right here is a whole bunch of excuses and bullshit, @NatzAshe. Ask these pro Killvivors to show you their ranks and achievements. I'd bet my life none of them have ever so much as sniffed red ranks because they are carebear Killers who play like utter crap. Ignore them, play to win and don't worry about their fun. If they aren't having fun, they can go play Civ 4. Besides what they really mean is 'losing isn't fun so don't do things that might make me lose'.
Screw 'em. Tunnel them into the ground. I do.
We have asked for changes to base gen mechanics for a long time and with good reason.
Tunneling is at times necessary, but generally it gets annoying to be shunted out of the game very early with very little to no real chance to gain BP and depiped for the experience. Should things change around it? Not really. The function of tunneling exposes a flaw in the game design's core where efficient play punishes everyone overly hard. Killers shouldn't need to tunnel because the game should be just complex enough that everyone has a chance to get points.
The thing is in this discussions it always comes to genrush VS tunnel and survivors aren't really fair cause you are right real genrushig happens rarely but how often we hear oh you tunnel cause you are bad at managing your time as a killer you use baby/noob/#########/anything meanyoucanthinkof tactics. Yeah I'm not the best killer if I where a really good killer I probably wouldn't tunnel a single time but I'm not at least not yet so I get some kills through tunneling while I am working on my killer skills isn't this batter then haven people super discouraged to learn killer just cause swf and matchmaking sucks.
And before you even start yes if I only ever tunnel I'm not improving but that's obviously not what I'm talking about
at higher levels, the killer doesnt get to enjoy the game because 3 gens pop at once before they get their first down
So killers that don't tunnel suck? Wow that's interesting logic. How are killers that win without tunneling not better than the ones who tunnel to kill. I stand by my point....If you have to tunnel in all your games you are not as good as the survivors you are playing. Maps, spawns, boons all add to imbalances for killers. I have said this a dozen times on the forums. If you can't win without tunneling so resort to tunneling to kill you will face the same batch over and over.
For the love of god Iri rank means nothing towards skill it's based on playtime. I make it there without tunneling and so can you. This thread was "What's survivors issue with tunneling?" I answered. it then became an argument of killers trying to justify their tunneling. That's not what the post was about. Be the solution to the problem not be the problem.
That happens. Game is not over at 3 gens. if they don't pop 3 gens early they are in trouble when your snowball starts. 2 gens remaining means easier to defend. I play the game and go with the flow. If they are good and beat me with 6 hooks good on them. It rarely happens though. I been playing survivor more and more each month (I know their strong) but be honest is tunneling more fun for you? being gen-rushed ain't fun either I know but if tunneling is fun for you do it. like I already said OP asked why survivors had a problem with tunneling (Obvious question) and this thread became justification for tunneling.
So because I don't camp or tunnel I'm playing bad. Ok😂🤣🤣🤣 and I never said I was a pro player yes your right I never been to red ranks never cared to get there. I have killer trophies I don't have to prove anything especially to you.
The way I play is fun for me I'm sorry that you find it wrong.
And before you get all hysterical I didn't say not to tunnel I said that tunneling that one person could cost you the game. I never told anyone on here how to play.
Like what I just said that you quoted me on it can be done.
Sure sometimes. I truly get how hard killer can be. I focus on giving them something to do (Plaything/pentimento). There are other ways to keep them occupied besides those that's just my new go to. I used to be able to slow the game by making them heal as often as possible but that's a death wish now. So now I rely on win win hexes but that can be ignored by SWF.
You cannot interfere with a gen, if you are tunneling. Most smart survivors will split the gens at that point and even the most potato teammate will throw down every pallet they find.
All I am saying that tunneling gets you a 1k at best, unless the team falls for the bait. In which most cases new people will, but people who know the drill won’t.
I would rather lose with a 2k and 9 hooks than with a 1k and 2 -3 hooks.
Yeah, sorry, you're wrong.
Tunneling works, it's well documented and not really up for debate. And survivors don't get to choose the Gen layout, the map does. Survivors on gens also don't get to choose the loop path of the tunneled target, the killer and tunnelee do. Killers can tunnel and to an extent accomplish secondary goals like I previously described.
Not mutually exclusive.
To have a chance at the game as killer you need to eliminate one of the survivors as fast as possible and if that means tunneling so be it, survivors have enough perks to use to prevent or escape tunneling.
This is not what your title asks for
I don't have any issue with being tunneled and camped. Even vs insidious bubba.
Only thing I mind in this game is bm'ing (hacking and griefing goes without saying).
So tunnel and camp away. Or "gen rush" and loop me on crazy tiles.
It's probably because survivor gameplay is actually pretty varied. There's quite a few different dynamics between getting chased, sitting on a gen, hunting totems, moving for a rescue or healing someone.
So when a killer just cuts off all gameplay except the chase, that's just going to cut out most of the fun. And that's assuming the chases last any time at all, since when you get off the hook, you're likely to be in a bit of a dead zone, too.
Good luck tunneling in The Game, where every pallet is pretty much safe.
Add to that Shadow Step and a survivor taking a hit for their teammate, and that survivor being tunneled will have a ball.
The Game is a heavily survivor-sided map. Not sure if you're arguing that somehow switching it up and trying to hook people non-sequentially would somehow give you a better chance of winning The Game. Whether you tunnel, or try to split the pressure and find someone dumb enough to not have an escape plan to a safe pallet, it only reinforces why killers tunnel in the first place. The only difference is that The Game is even moreso a "Survivor's match to lose" than other non-egregious examples.
Frickin hard agree there. I love getting tunneled.
“It only reinforces why killers tunnel in the first place”
Im sure it had nothing to do with their lack of skill. 🙄
If kicking gens was meaningful and wasn't just 0.1 sec tap and it stops regression, Killers might tunnel less.
If Coh wasn't infinite, i might go for someone else.
Wounded survs and gen regression provides little pressure.
Having survs coming into to unhook and peel, means they're not doing gens.
it doesn't always work, but i fine more often than not, Tunneling brings survivors to you rather than making you chase.
You picked a weird portion to harp on, but I guess then you either have nothing more to offer, or you do agree that target switching on The Game provides little value. Who you're chasing on that map does not altar the pallets they have access to.
But to address the portion you harped on, again, several high profile, very good killers have videos online of them actively choosing to tunnel because they deemed it the correct action/response to survivor gameplay, and reviewing the video would lead just about anyone with half a noggin to come to the same conclusion.
but they lack skill /s
I wouldn't call myself a tunneler, I try to 12 hook as often as I can, but I am hit-and-running a lot less now and just going for single chases with easy targets. CoH and the current game state with MMR makes the fun way to play killer a sure-fire way to lose against survivors who are even slightly decent. You can't split pressure and build up injuries for later, because CoH allows all survivors to heal themselves faster than you can reasonably get hits on them in chases, for the price of one perk slot.
Snuffing it is useless as the survivors can just put it back up in hardly any time at all, in comparison to how much you have to go out of your way to do so. If multiple CoH are in play, you might as well just tunnel people and give up on split pressure. There's no way you're keeping 2 or more constantly-resetting boons, usually in out of the way locations, inactive without wasting so much time you're practically throwing the game.
Tunneling is heavily encouraged by CoH, so it's no surprise you're seeing tunneling more.
Killers do ask for some way to do that tho. Theres like at least 1 new post a day on here about gen speeds. Killers want gen speeds increased or they want survivors to have more objectives to slow the game down so they can play how they want to and 4k every match.
There was even a trend for a while of killers complaining that survivors could run and running needed to be nerfed.
Survivors: doing gens fast is just doing your objective and been efficient.
Also Survivors: killers killing people fast is toxic and shows no skill.
How come its up to the killer to take the path of most resistance? And before someone says you have 3 other survivors you also have 6 other gens. I get that the difference is one is an a player and the other is an in game assets but you picked that when you qd survivor just like the killer picked to be the sole member of there team. To add more ######### its harder to deal with an objective that can think and move compared to one that stays in one spot.
Tunnelling is the de facto strat in comp not even so much as that the survivor objective is so easy if they're smart and split up and can play safe, but because survivors are limited to one DS and BT usually. Now, I've never actually played comp being basically locked out of it for being on Playstation, but it seems like you just roll the dice and hope the guy that gets unhooked isn't the one on the team with DS. In pubs at high MMR you're seeing 4 BT and 4 DS most of the time
It's just unfun to be on the tunneled side, getting off a hook to be immediately knocked down is pretty dang boring. However, tunneled with a long chase after unhook I feel is just fine. At least its more fun.
Viable killer strat however, so it'll always happen.
if it takes the same amount of time for 1 down as it does for 3 gens theres an issue
I would love to discuss this issue with you but I already got jailed because of this thread.....So please let it die.
Another time perhaps.
Alright, if your jailing was my fault i apologize