Should We Know (After the Game) Who Was in a SWF?
A lot of people chalk up their poor game experience to going against a 4 man SWF. I've been accused of being in a SWF more than once when I wasn't, so when I see posts from people saying they lost to a SWF, I wonder if those people were actually in a SWF.
So the question is, post game, should everyone know who was in a SWF? And if so, why?
On the one hand, thinking you were in a SWF and learning you weren't could A, help you catch and report actual cheating but B, show you that you simply weren't as skilled as those you faced, and that could help you get better as a player. (I know, I know. I've been on these forums long enough to realize that "B" is a pipe dream. It takes a lot of maturity to accept someone simply outplayed you. There always has to be a reason outside of one's own shortcomings (ex: "The map is broken"). Sometimes that is true, but realizing when it isn't true is hard. Still, I'm the type who would find it valuable.)
But back to the question, I can think of a lot of pros and a lot of cons. And it certainly would open up a lot of questions. Should Killers get a proportionate BP bonus based on the size of the SWF, for instance? And what about those times when people play together, but aren't on comms? The game can't possibly account for that.
So what do you think? Do you think the cons outweigh the pros? Or do the pros outweigh the cons?
Comments
I want to know. Yes
I don't think so. I don't see it contributing much in practice other than getting people angrier than they already were.
Agreed, the Killer shouldn't see beforehand, but I was thinking so as to prevent lobby dodging. But that is a good point. If it's a two man SWF, the Killer would target one of them intentionally.
For me it is 50/50. Lobby dodging. But at the same time I do think there needs to be adjustments. I just dont know what would be a good suggestion at this point.
Do you mean there need to be adjustments about SWF? As in, maybe assessing a speed penalty to repairing actions based on the amount of friends, or granting BP bonuses to Killers, etc.?
You should know beforehand who is in a SWF. Zero reason not to. Your entire playstyle changes based on who is in a swf or not. I always check steam profiles for friends lists. If I see 3 people are in a swf, I know to prepare for things that only swfs do.
Absolutely it's integral. Pretty big slap to the face that it isn't that way already.
Disagree.
It'll cause far too many lobby dodges. For Killers who do play and see people are in a 2 man SWF, they will use that information to target specific survivors out of the game.
Both of those things are unhealthy for the game. SWF are not a problem that must be eradicated. They are a part of the game that, reasonably, can be criticized for balance. I even proposed a BP bonus compensation for Killers, relative to the size of the SWF. That is quite fair, and there are plenty of other reasonable adjustments that could be made regarding SWF. But seeing who is in a SWF beforehand is not balanced, and it's not the answer.
I'd like to know only because I'd like to see how common swf actually are.
Seeing who ISN'T in a swf isn't balanced either. Not knowing if this is a group of 4 who know exactly where you are at all times, what killer you are, where you've been, what you've done on the map. That's not balanced.
There is no good argument against knowing SWFs before the match starts besides "it will cause too many lobby dodgers." Which I, personally, am totally fine with. If it takes people quitting this game, or ditching lobbies, or just not playing killer so the survivor queue times are so long no one else plays, for BHVR to actually FIX this game. I am 100% all for it. My queue times are already bordering on 30 minutes, and I'll still leave against 4 man squads or even 3 man squads if I'm just trying to have a good time.
Surely you jest sir. You mean killers don't like SWF because it gives an advantage.
You heretic, Killers don't like SWF because we hate people having fun right?
Yes, it is balanced. It is far too much information for a Killer to know who is in a SWF beforehand. I am fine with adjustments, but not your proposal. As neither of us actually has any say in the matter (unless you work for BHVR), we are going to have to agree to disagree, or else we risk repeating ourselves.
Huh?
And, sir, I will insist you address me properly, for I am a lady of the court. Your dishonorable address shall not stand. My knights shall see to it that my honor is defended most valiantly. (Thanks for starting the ball rolling with the court speak. I got to indulge in a little weirdness lmao)
Uh. It is not balanced in anyway. This game is not and has not been balanced around survivors being in SWFs. It is balanced around 4 solo survivors and 1 killer. Introducing an inherent advantage to one side when it is balanced around NOT having this inherent advantage is the textbook definition of imbalance.
Agree to disagree all you want mate, but its simply wrong to state that SWF vs Killer is balanced.
I argued that knowing beforehand who is in a SWF is not balanced, not that SWF itself is balanced. You're responding to something I didn't claim. ". . . but it's simply wrong to state that SWF vs Killer is balanced." We're not discussing the same thing.
And yes, we are going to have to agree to disagree, mate.
1 sees totem- all see totem. That totem could have been devour hope, that killer could have seen you at that totem and made sure it stayed hidden if you were a solo squad.
Killer chases you off a gen at 90% with ruin in play, you call it out and someone close by or on a new gen takes over so the killer gets no value from their perks.
there is plenty of simple callouts that are made by swf that change the outcome of the game.
While that is true, what I said is also true.
My question Is why not show the swfs. I usually play with a friend or two when I play survivor, I can't see a downside in showing after the match so why not?
Yeah I would prefer to know after the game, especially if I got completely crushed it would at least make me feel a little better.
In reading (probably all of) these responses, I'd say most people agree with you--Killer and Survivor players.
As someone who sometimes plays SWF, I too would not mind the Killer knowing after the fact.
Definitely think it should be shown post-match. Pre-match is debatable, but post-match really isn't.
I remember having a hacker in one of my matches and the killer (streamer, I was able to check his stream and hear him say this) just assumed we were all part of a SWF and reported us all as "accomplices" instead of just the actual hacker.
It was an idiotic thing for him to do, but it wouldn't have happened if it showed the hacker was solo.
That's an excellent point.
We absolutely should know after the game. There's no reason not to.
There's no upside either. People who blame swfs for their lack of skill will find another scapegoat when they aren't faced against a swf, but when they are and it's revealed they went against a swf, it'll just help prove their point about why swf is basically cheating.
The upside is information, it helps to know who had access to what information. It allows to guess what happened while the killer wasn't looking. We already established that those who use scapegoat will do so anyway.
I absolutley think that in the POST GAME LOBBY you should have the right to know if you went against a swf or not, and if so how many of the survivors were in it, but maybe not saying what player names specifically were in it (have the screen showing what swfs you went against being different than the screen that shows all the survivor names). It's as you said, it would be good for killers to know what to attribute to their loss and what not to, and to know if they were simply outplayed or if the other team had an advantage.
I also think those who come on the forum complaining about getting bullied by swf should somehow have to post a screenshot proving that they really did lose to a swf.
No point in tracking whether or not they were on comms though, people will often be talking in completely different applications.
I'd actually advocate we know prior to the game currently, something I was against for years until now. Killer queues are now several minutes anyway at peak hours, and for higher level players the matches are so much harder, not like you can dodge anyway cause of queue times so it'd be some nice info
All good points. At the very least, a lessening of "SWF is the only reason I lost" mentality will be nice.
I don't see how it could be an issue in the post game. I know for me personally if I had a rough match and saw a 4 stack I would feel better ^^"
Also yes to killers getting additional BP for going against swf ^^
Sorry I skimmed a bit but was there any reason posted for why this shouldn't be a thing besides the one who said it doesn't help so don't bother putting it in?
Well according to you not many people are having fun as survivor anymore.....
You want stats?
Killers have been at 3+ kills for over a year now. So by your own metric they need to tone down the buff to killers and give something to the survivors. So, thanks?
gg
ITs funny when one of the survivors forget to hide their friends list but they flat out deny being swf, then when you call it out they switch to "we are just playing together without coms"
Needed. Past tense. With mmr, well, you know, they already got to buffing killer, rofl.
KYF doesn't provide BP or any way to level up so unless that changes that will never happen
No reason to not show this info. Some Survivors just want Killers thinking they aren't SWF and are just telepathic Gods, you aren't very impressive being a 4 man on comms.
To be fair, you can already tell the telepathic ones are together. Hardly need the game to confirm that.
I know, but it'd be funny to see them try and trash talk when there's a shiny lil icon that says "we're sweating super hard on Discord right now"
But isn't it about playing with your friends?
But how was I meant to P3 my characters in KYF? Before I switched to killer I started out as a survivor in SWF, we began exclusively doing KYF but ended up moving to public once we realised we couldn't progress our characters in any capacity in KYF
When you want to play with your friends you "kyf" when you want bp you play ranked solo or duo?