Is DS too easy to abuse?
Please read below in full detail: (people seem not to be reading more than the title)
TL;DR: I was curious what people think about DS. I'm not complaining, I don't have an issue with it, and I now understand it better. you can all stop arguing now, but feel free to keep sharing and discussing.
also, does anyone know how to close this can of worms?
side note: can someone close this discussion? I think it's run its course.
I feel like it could use another caveat to make it so it's not a team-wide second chance.
I'm not angry or anything, but it has certainly lost me kills and sometimes games before.
I feel like maybe it should turn off if the killer downs someone else, would that still be fair?
edit: I'd like to specify that I don't personally have an issue with ds, I'm just curious what other people think. :)
abuse = as a game mechanic, take advantage.
Comments
Many don't want to deal with anything. They should be free to tunnel, camp and slug without consequence or dealing with a Survivor's perk that might provide relief.
I agree with both of these, however, as someone who despises DS. I'm able to be objective about this.
DS shouldn't really have a skill check, or at the very least, it should be a fat skill check (like the first one during phase 2 hook) to serve more as like a... "Do you want to use this?"
And it should deactivate once fully healed, by anyone, but not deactivate when a heal is started. I also agree with this.
However, I still believe its 60 second duration is way too long. Most of the time when I get DS'd, I already downed and hooked somebody else, and the person with an active DS gets in my face so I take the free down and try to pick them up... Like, I legit already forgot about this other guy. That's how long it's been, and how much has happened since then.
DS serves way more functionality than anti-tunneling at 60 seconds. That's just factual.
This makes zero sense. How does waiting the timer out stop the Survivor from crawling out of the open gate? Same goes for eating the stun.
thank you for having a neutral, level-headed stance and not being rude. that means a lot.
Do you have any idea how far a person can crawl in 60 seconds? lmao
I think they might be a survivor? Like, one that for some reason doesn't try to recover the slug. It is a weird opinion, mang. No idea where it is coming from.
If the game is not over and survivors haven’t used their DS, they deserve that chance.
I play both sides lol but okay.
You didn't answer my question. You suggested that Killers play around DS during the EGC by waiting out the timer. How does that stop them from crawling out the open gate?
After finishing all the replies in here...
It astounds me how many human beings are incapable of entering the perspective of more than just themselves.
Just because you got downed after being unhooked doesn't mean you got tunneled. It USUALLY means you're just bad at hiding, and bad at looping.
Actually, it USUALLY does mean you got tunneled.
"Proxy tunneler" doesn't even make sense
Actually, it makes perfect sense. I'm a different poster and I understand exactly what they mean.
No. If anything, it's too weak for its actual purpose. It needs to actually be able to counter tunneling rather than a perk that one can use for immunity to waste a killer's time.
than eat the stun earlier before endgame if you don’t wanna get hit by it later in the match. That’s the only way you’re gonna play around DS.
That doesn't sound like great design. It means playing around it can punish you extra hard during the end game.
Why exactly?
Killers always claim that the game is not over when all Gens are done - mostly when they defend NOED. So why should a Perk be disabled when the game is going on? The game for a Survivor only ends when they are either escaped or dead, everything else means they are playing the game so they should have access to their Perks.
Let alone that it is kinda the Killers fault that they did not manage to kill everyone before EGC. (The Killer is the only constant in their games, so they are to blame for that...)
Because the perk not being disabled at that point can potentially outright guarantee an escape. That is not fair IMO.
noed can be removed, ds can’t. It’s a free stun and I’m egc it’s a free escape. Imagine if Killers can mori off 1st hook. Lol just don’t get hooked 4head
NOED was only used as an example where Killers say that the game is not over when all Gens are done. Nothing more.
Ah, it is "not fair". I think it is not fair that a Perk gets disabled when the Survivors are completing their Objective.
Then you've spent time to down someone and no hook for it, then you have to chase someone else who's probably healthy, and the guy on the ground gets healed back to full. You can't win.
Well idk, maybe because they have 60 second immunity to being pick up and they want to exploit it to he fullest.
A slugged person who gets healed by another person is quite good Map Pressure.
Considering that many perks are only active at certain points in the game, I don't consider that unreasonable at all.
@GenJockey26
Who said anything about being aggressive and angry? You don't have to be angry to make a complaint about something.
If he/she had no issue with it, then he wouldn't have posted about it. That is being passive aggressive.
"They weren't playing before the nerf, so they didn't experience the bs survivors would pull with DS and they ought to feel lucky as I do that I wasn't playing with the old old DS. I think I'd lose my mind if I had to do the dribbling."
Exactly. Hence my comment. Hence why I think it's hilarious that people still complain about this perk. Especially when it's counter is running rampant by the day.
You are still applying pressure by slugging. You have 3 survivors not working on gens- The slugged guy, the guy getting chased, and the survivor that will need to help the guy thats down. That's actually a lot of pressure on the survivors.
A. I use they/them pronouns
B. I said I wasn't complaining.
:)
does that help?
I, too, love to start and end my arguments with, "I'm a different poster and I understand exactly what they mean."
LMFAO
"It needs to counter tunneling, rather than give me immunity and waste the Killer's time."
What, EXACTLY, do you want DS to do??? LOLLLL...
LMFAO WHAT.
How is this even a valid response.
An active DS during EGC is active at this time because they were rescued at that time. You can't "choose to eat it earlier" than this situation is happening.
IN FACT, your suggestion of "eating the stun earlier" IS LITERALLY a suggestion to tunnel this person as soon as possible so that you don't have DS's in end game.
YOU SURVIVORS ARE SO....................
Just lmao.........
You can't abuse DS. If by abusing it you mean by jumping in a locker? why should the option of being slugged be the only one? Killer doesnt have to pick you out, they can just wait. If anything it needs to have the healing restriction removed because this is abused by killers who fake leaving you, just to come back once they think youve healed and thus you lose your DS and are still being tunelled.
If you had asked me this prior to the nerfs that were implemented when Trickster was added, I would've said yes. But now? I'd say it's in a decent spot. If I get hit by DS now, it's cause of something I did.
I personally think DS can go both ways, its really easy to abuse, sure, buts its just as easy to completely ignore it and continue tunneling.
It's fine, there's really no way to fix either of those issues, I just find it funny that the anti tunnel perk is more of a temporary knife than a safety net.
Why would you attack me like that?? Jeez sorry Idk why you think i’m a survivor main just because i’m trying to give a little advice.
So let that person escape for free? :P
...counter tunneling. Actually work when being tunneled, rather than punishing a player who plays well while being tunneled directly off the hook with being deactivated by the time they're picked up.
But do go off. (:
You said it has lost you kills, and you proceeded to say that it should turn off if the killer downs someone else.
To me that sounds like you aren’t for how the current DS works now, while at the same time ignoring the fact that killers who camp will more than likely down someone else too.
I.E. A killer can force a trade by camping at their own leisure or simply because they feel they cannot pressure. So they hit the person doing the save, person then takes another hit and goes down, but saves the camped teammate. In that instance DS should stay active, because it is punishing the killer for not properly applying pressure, I don’t think deactivating DS then is fair.
So once again, the reason to me these types of threads sound like complaints is because many miss the mark on the fact that there are way too many scenarios in which the so called abuse comes from the other side to. Being with.
that's fair, but I didn't have an issue with the fact it lost me kills. I was just wondering if it needed a rework, since streamers seem to have issues with it all the time*. I thought maybe that sentiment would be more widespread.
sorry if it seemed like I was whining.
Does this help clear up my point?
either way, thanks for your input!
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujBTogeQcds&t=308s
Reduce DS to 40 seconds and it’ll be fine. That’s plenty of immunity time.
You god
DAMN
F I L T H Y
𝓢 𝓤 𝓡 𝓥 𝓘 𝓥 𝓞 𝓡 𝓢
It already does on tier 1.
Yes, "do go off," very popular buzz phrase these days. +1 pip to you for slamming me hard with it.
So you're saying that, after being unhooked, you had time to get into a chase and loop for 60 seconds, thus being downed and DS is now inactive.
So, they either didn't camp you... Or BT served enough of an anti-tunnel force to buy you that 60+ second chase...
You realize how many gens can get done in three different instances of 60 second chases? Hint: More than 1 game's worth of gens.
I can agree. I keep saying 30 seconds, but 40 would probably work out too.
I know well what I´m talking about. So don´t come here to vomit me all your #########.
And there are killers exceptional designed for tunneling (like spirit, nurse, wraith, etc).
If a killer is trying to tunnel doing the proxycamp, there are situations where u can do very little as survivor (good looper or not) . As a survivor, i have given 1 free hit and even 2 free hits to killer so he stop chasing the tunneled guy. A BT will help u if killer is camping, but not much if he is proxycamping, because by the time he comes back inmunity will have expired.
So I think the message you have written talks more about you than what is talks about me. If u are one of the detractors of DS I can have an idea of what kind of killer u are.
Well for people who say you can't abuse it, it's not rly true since you can still force the killer to eat it when he don't want to pick you up. For example slow or quick jump into a locker or forcing a killer grap on purpose or running around the killer to force grap even when the killer don't want to tunnel you.
I wouldn't say DS is perfect but it is for sure much better than it was. Also some small nerf wouldn't kill it lol. I still see this perk almost every game at least 1 and it still does the job well done.
Make it activate after both hook stages then so its actually anti tunneling
There's a big difference between "not easy" and "Survivor gets a guaranteed escape." The game should not give a Survivor a 100% chance to escape despite being downed while not even within the Exit Gate area. That's not "punish the Killer for not playing right;" that's just poor design.
Let me put it to you like this: If the Killer does not tunnel and specifically avoids triggering DS the whole game, the Killer is now in a position where a Survivor who still has DS can now realistically secure an escape despite being downed. Why? Because the Killer didn't tunnel the whole game and allowed the Survivors to keep DS until the end. So in essence, NOT tunneling punished the Killer.
It's asking Killers to play the game fast enough to avoid being put in this no-win scenario but not TOO fast by taking the Survivor out of the game quickly because then you might play into DS anyways. You can't have it both ways. Either they're supposed to play around it by not tunneling to avoid it or they're supposed to play around it by tunneling to force it early. You shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it as well in this case.
Are people seriously crying about DS now in it's current state? lmfao there are some awful killers with even worse takes on balance inhabiting these forums. Least it keeps me entertained if nothing else.
It works with inner strength and second wind already.
The Killer created that scenario by not forcing DS early, would you not agree? If the Killer tunneled at the beginning to force DS and then reaches the end game, then the Killer specifically avoided that scenario by tunneling, correct?
So what you're saying is that there's no way to properly play around DS?
Ofc it's easy to abuse you have 60 seconds of the killer only being able to slug you and you can counter Slugging so yeah there's no way to avoid the DS besides wasting time. Plus you can force the killer into a grab so that you get to use DS.