Remind me, when is hatch being taken out of the game?
Dead by Daylight may as well be considered FFA with the way hatch promotes an every-man-for-themself mindset.
Dead by Daylight may as well be considered FFA with the way hatch promotes an every-man-for-themself mindset.
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Babes the hatch will never be taken out as it doesn't need to be taken out.
Why would they ever take hatch out? It's a perfectly balanced mechanic as is.
It's never leaving, even though it causes so many of the game's problems.
never. Hatch is fine and will therefore remain in the game. keys are another issue
Thank the Entity for the hatch. Survivors can already hold the game hostage enough other ways.
Five days later, after the hatch gets removed
"Remind me, when is the hatch being put back in the game?"
Tommorow.
It is not "perfectly balanced."
What about it speaks to you in such a way that would have you saying as much?
Hatch is a Get Out of Jail Free card for players who may have done little to deserve it.
Instead of promoting teamwork and altruism, its very existence promotes self-serving decision-making.
I have seen many players throw the entire game in hopes of escaping on their own through the hatch. I have seen teammates leave each other to die so hatch can spawn and they can escape with a key. And I have seen survivors loop a killer for 5 gens, only to be left on hook as their 3 teammates take hatch together.
The hatch does not belong in DBD.
Survivors are not strong enough to survive the trial alone. DBD's design depends on survivors working together to escape. And yet they have introduced this hatch mechanic as a way to completely circumvent everything the game's design stands for.
Hatch is not perfect by any means.
As it stands, I can bring a key (and hatch offering) every single trial and do nothing by locker hop until hatch spawns. There is nothing preventing me from playing this way, and if I'm good enough at looping the killer I'll see success with it almost every game.
Why should I be allowed to escape when I've done nothing to contribute towards the objective, and I've done nothing to help anyone else out of the trial?
...if the hatch opened for players who reached a certain amount of bloodpoints in the trial, maybe that'd be "balanced." I don't think that would be a great solution, but it would at least be granting the second chances to those who earned it.
Sure, there's nothing stopping you from doing that. But you'll earn very little bloodpoints, as well as playing a very boring playstyle, which is why nobody actually does that.
You have to think of the hatch from both sides as well, just because someone who didn't deserve it gets out one game, doesn't mean someone who definitely did deserve it never does. It's a mechanic put in to give the last survivor some chance, and it's biggest problem is how it ties into keys, but the hatch by itself is perfectly fine.
Hatch is fine. Key rework when?
If hatch was removed, they better get rid of the DC penalties, cuz I'm not spending 45 minutes scouring RPD for a Survivor that wants to just hide. They can have the points, I'm out.
"Its boring to play that way" is not a justification for why hatch is balanced. Regardless of how entertaining a playstyle is, the option is there and the option is counter-intuitive to DBD's nature.
When push comes to shove, survivors should not be saying "its alright, I'll just look for hatch."
That is not good game design.
It is the responsibility of the game to motivate players towards the objective. Players can take it upon themselves to do side objectives or procrastinate the objective for their own intrinsic reasons, but the moment the game provides players with a reason NOT to do the objective, there is a problem. The hatch is that problem for survivors.
Then there's an easy fix, make the hatch only appear when all gens are completed or when there's only one survivor left. Removing hatch entirely isn't a solution, because that leads to killer favored games.
All they really need to do is have hatch only spawn when all gens are done, or when there is a single survivor remaining. Then keys would no longer matter.
While the former proposal is great, the latter does not resolve the issue that plagues many games of DBD.
When it comes down to 2v1 situations, both survivors have a choice to make:
The game should be pushing survivors towards Option 1, but the existence of hatch pushes most survivors (especially those not confident in their ability to loop) towards Option 2.
If both survivors choose Option 2, the killer is left with a major (boring) lull where both survivors hide and wait for the other to be found. If only one survivor chooses Option 2, the other is forced to loop the killer for as long as possible while their teammate hopefully works on a generator.
...except we already know that Survivor B chose Option 2, so why should Survivor A bother to loop the killer at all? His fate was sealed the moment he was found. He could loop the killer for the next 10 minutes--enough time to do 7 and a half generators--but because the hatch exists, Survivor B will let him die after all that hard work.
Remove hatch from the game, and what then is Survivor B left to do? How will Survivor B escape the trial?
Answer: By working on a generator.
Now, instead of the game extending for 10 more minutes as Survivor A puts on the clinic of a lifetime, it ends in 2 or 3 minutes.
Hatch is fine. Always was, always will be.
What you're suggesting is the possibility of a killer holding a survivor hostage with no way out of the game. With no hatch, EGC never starts, meaning the killer can just continually bully the last survivor until they either quit, or the killer gets bored.
It wasn't so fine when hatch standoffs were a thing, or when it didn't spawn until a certain number of gens were completed. Just saying. 🤣
Thats not what I'm suggesting. I'm simply stating that the mechanic in place to prevent killers from holding the game hostage is the wrong solution--it creates other problems the game shouldn't have.
Oh, joke is on you buddy! You are speaking to the only person in the entire DBD Community who actually enjoyed Hatch standoffs, and the old Hatch mechanics in general.
If you played before hatch was around youd know why its a necessary mechanic
The survivors objective is to escape, they dont necessarily have to help YOU escape.
Without it, there's more problems. It's a lose lose situation with a game like this, there's no way to work it out for both sides.
..
There is almost certainly another solution the dev team could come up with. If not them, a member of the community could probably offer a better solution.
The hatch may solve a problem that desperately needed a solution, but people shouldn't be satisfied with the new one it created. I'm not satisfied with the solution, and no one else should be either. The game could benefit from a more thoughtful solution.
Perfect, my friend. Perfect.
So what is your solution? I see no problem with how it is so if you do offer a better idea
Hatch is there to end the game. Period. Doesn't cater to one side or the other.
If it's so offensive to you, slug for the 4k.
I didn't come to the forums with a solution to propose. I do not work for BHVR--I'm not going to do their job for them. I see a problem, I spoke up about it. ...besides, BHVR doesn't even accept design ideas this community gives them in the first place.
How do you see no problem with survivors abandoning their objective to play hide-n-seek? How do you see no problem with survivors leaving each other high and dry, when they are intended to work together to escape? How do you see no problem with a mechanic that creates stand-offs while praising it for removing stand-offs? How do you see no problem with a mechanic that removes one problem and replaces it with a slightly less shittier one?
I'm sorry, I don't recall filing a complaint about hatch as Killer. Perhaps you meant to place this comment on another thread?
You want the hatch gone? Enjoy 40 minute-long games where two survivors just hide in a corner because doing 3 gens between two survivors is essentially impossible to accomplish in a timely fashion.
The hatch is there for both the killer and the survivor's benefit. It's there so games aren't taken hostage.
That's usually the complaint I get about Hatch, so my bad.
The main point still stands-- it's there to end the game, period. Trust me and a lot of other people, it's worse without it.
Their objective is to escape, both the gens and the hatch are a means to that end. No, i dont see an issue
Survivors ALREADY play this way WITH hatch in the game. My entire issue with hatch as a mechanic is that it incentivizes this very behavior.
Hatch doesn't suddenly make survivors worse at hiding once they've decided completing generators is too difficult, therefore with or without hatch, survivors are wholey capable of holding the game hostage for 40 minutes.
Hatch exists for the killer--to prevent he killer from holding the game hostage--not the other way around.
I genuinely cannot tell if you enjoy playing devil's advocate or you truly believe a game is incapable of motivating players towards certain actions.
While killers need a system in place to prevent them from taking the game hostage, an accelerated Idle Crow system in late game would fair far better than hatch, with regard to moving the game towards its end.
However, BHVR values player agency over player experience, so such a mechanic would never be implemented.
So you admit your ultimate issue is with survivors holding the game hostage, which many here would agree needs addressing. I think we've all been part of a game as killer with only two survivors left and hatch hasn't spawned. And you are in one of those maps or situations without the right perks you can do anything about it.
In that case, I absolutely agree that survivors need to get idle crows without touching a generator for 10+ seconds every three minutes or so. A killer shouldn't feel forced to DC or go idle while two survivors get in and out of lockers or use Urban Evasion in corners.
My team is a bunch of rank 20 survs who crouch next to hooked survs and dont rescue them, meanwhile I'm doing most of the gens, literally 3 on my own, entire team dies.
Guys let's take out the hatch! Why leave it for someone who actually tried to win the game?
How do you see no problem with survivors abandoning their objective to play hide-n-seek?
Because the alternative is having survivors abandon their objective to play hide-n-seek with the express intent to make the other person quit.
This is why you're being asked to come up with a solution: If you do try to come up with one, you realise that, outside of keys, the hatch is doing a pretty good job of fixing the problem. Any alternative would likely suffer the same problems, if not worse.
Believe me, the endgame stalemate situation where the last survivor will hide for literally 5 hours because yes that's happened before is enough reason to keep hatch
Same energy
pretty sure taking out the hatch would just lead to games being taken hostage again
Good luck for searching that last Claudette for hours when she just hides to waste your time
I just want to say, you are entirely correct. These people are either trying to gaslight you, or too inept to see the problem. Either way, no idea why they feel so passionate about their opinion that is essentially a "nuh uh."
Hatch's fine, only the keys are the issues imo.
I appreciate the hatch when I end up with a 3 man SWF with flashlights, trying to make content for their YouTube channel. The ones who will get off a gen with me while injured, trying to get a flashlight save that’s down the block and around the corner.
Keys are fun but they do need to be reworked. It really should have been done simultaneously with the Mori change.
Nah it's not.
It's perfectly fine for; when there's only one remaining survivor, or when all the gens are repaired.
But when there are still gens to be repaired, the hatch is worse then the old Mori's for bypassing objectives.
The killer is still patrolling gens, so what chance to they have when survivors with a key randomly stumble across the hatch and decide to end the game early? It's essentially forcing the killer to DC, same result.
Additionally it causes survivors to screw each other over. I've been on my first hook stage, and seen the auras of the other survivors vanish down into nothing on the other side of the map, when the killer wasn't even camping. Nice work guys.
Keys are fine, it's the hatch that's the issue. See above.
No hatch when there's still gens to be repaired please.
Until human behaviour changes in such a way that Solo Queue teammates actually get stuff done, odds are Hatch is going nowhere
This is the weirdest rant I've seen so far about being upset the game gives a chance to survivors to prevent a 4K. Hatch is okay and gives a window to finish a game once all but one survivor are killed by forcing EGC or them getting out, keys on the other hand are completely wrong.
The only problem I have with hatch are keys. Hatch should only spawn once all gens are finished or only one survivor is left.
The "hold the game hostage" situation can be remedied by improving the AFK crow system. Beyond that, the Hatch (but not keys) is fine as-is.
In the situation you describe, the hatch only functions as an extension of keys. So yes, your issue is with keys, not the hatch.
But as I said, keys when all gens are done are absolutely fine. The killer doesn't have gens to patrol, they have the ability to scout out the hatch. The survivors have completed 95% of their objective, and now turn two remaining objectives into three, it's a fair boon for holding a key and is similar in scope to new Mori's eliminating one final pick up.
There's no circumstances where the hatch being in play while gens can still be repaired is a positive to the game.
We're just built different.