FOR GODS SAKE PLEASE REWORK HAG!!!
I am appalled and astonished that Hag is still flying under the radar.
There is absolutely nothing fun about, or fair about:
a) not even being able to simply WALK around the trial. WALK!!!!
b) once in a chase it’s basically “screw you” because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do as a survivor if you run anywhere near a phantasm trap. Not even TOUCH the damn thing. Just run near it.
c) the fact that there’s is anywhere from a marginal chance to NO chance to avoid a hit once Hag teleports.
And...
d) her hook camping by proxy BS that means you’re basically dead from your very first hook, unless magically gifted with the most competent teammates in the entire world.
There is absolutely NOTHING BALANCED about a killer whereby the determining chances of success against them is whether someone in the team happens to have the correct item.
I just don’t get it. How?! HOW?!
How has Hag been allowed to remain in the state she is in.
All she provides is a lopsided experience for the killer using her, and misery, frustration and a sense of pointlessness “why even bother trying...” for the survivors.
Please, why aren’t more of the community speaking up about Hag’s very real, very big problems?!
*additional note* i’d also like to add that ever since the change to Ruin, it is now an absurdly frustrating perk to deal with when hag runs it. Particularly when needing to crouch towards anything that’s either an objective or a loop/vault that’s likely trapped, which just buys Hag even MORE gen regression with Ruin still up. Can’t leave gens when someone’s hooked. Can’t leave someone hooked to die, but it’s going to take a tediously long time to save, only for the unhooked survivor to be tunnelled whether the right thing was done (crouching) or the wrong thing was done (setting off a trap). It’s also enough to send someone homicidal to have been DOING THE RIGHT THING BY CROUCHING TO NOT SET OFF A TRAP, only to have another survivor not knowing it’s there set it off, except Hag hits/downs me upon teleporting.
She is a stain on DBD. The only positive thing about her is that she isn’t played prolifically for some odd reason.
*another additional note* Can I please just clarify that I’m not asking for Hag to be completely neutered without adequate compensation.
I’m not asking that she have all these frustrating issues removed, leaving for nothing to actually help her, or not feel significant enough to bother using against survivors, so she may as well stand in a corner and let survivors play gen simulator.
She should be adequately buffed, especially where flashlights are concerned, if the issues I’ve brought up are reduced in severity, or removed entirely. I’m asking for FAIRNESS. Right now, without comms, her current counters are at best laughable if a solo has not brought in a flashlight, or a rainbow map or map with red twine (is it red twine?). And even THEN, those maps won’t show every trap if you haven’t yet had a chance to keep on the move around the trial.
Most of the current counters a lot of you are suggesting are either hindsight (just bring insert perk or item here, which is never a valid argument. It’s impossible to preplan a build that covers every possible contingency against every killer. You just can’t.), or what is being suggested simply can only be done effectively with a team on comms, and not everybody wants to play that way. Attempting some of these solo can often result in being highly detrimental because of the backfire. I accept and expect that solo play SHOULD have drawbacks and disadvantages, but not so much against a particular killer whereby a solo shouldn’t bother playing. It shouldn’t be “let’s just save some grief, vault spam, suicide on hook, get it over with”
Comments
when I get my first hook in the basement against hag I usually accept that I'm gonna die.
Trust me i hate hag too, so boring
But im not sure how they could rework her
How you will destroy her traps then?
What strategy? Seriously? I can recall encountering one hag in all my dbd experience that was truly good at building a bloodweb without playing like the typical hag. Yes it was a miserable experience too, but these players are even more rare than the "god nurses" we hear about.
Hag only has one playstyle and there's no strategy or practice required in it
You forgot: just use deja vu lmaooooo
This is why Hag is the only "top tier" killer that is destroyed by SWF. Because only a swf can have one player say "she's locking down this area" and actively screw her over and annoy her.
That isn't even remotely viable for solo players. And its why playing against her is such a pain for solos.
My last game against Hag, 2 of the hits that downed me on 2 seperate occasions were because she'd laid a trap on a texture that literally didn't have a trap texture over it. Like the grated walkways on Hawkins.
Hag is almost perfectly fine.
Look: you said that there is nothing you can do during a chase which is wrong.
If you would have looked where Hag planted the traps you would not fall for them. You could easily go to the border of the activation radius, trigger it and run away. In this case she will miss 100%.
Hag is an extremely interactive killer but there is one thing thats completely different between her and all other killers: other killers seek interaction with you, but in Hags case the survivor has to seek the interaction with her.
Every match try to find out int he first 20 seconds of the game who the killer is and youre golden against the Hag if you play properly.
The only things that should change about Hag are:
She is very strong but has the perfect amount of counterplay and is the only real tactical killer in the game, For a change survivors have to play in a tactical way too.
I did a lot of testing and things like cam swing, crouching over traps, flashlight disarming etc should stay 100%.
Removing traps by hand should never ever by a thing, for this you have the method of triggering a trap at the border and if she teleports and has no other traps close she runs slowly after you.
From all responses etc I am seeing is that Hag is not the problem, the players are the problem not using the counterplay she has and instead trying the same old formula that works vs all other killers
Incredible 10/10 rant forum from an entitled survivor main. I, the hag main that I am, accept the challenge of debating you.
A) Hag has a really weird play style that revolves around her making a web. That means that you can walk around the map, if you have the brain capacity to guess where her web is. And by the way, why walk? To keep your sprint burst? I'm surprised you didn't talk about running. Interesting.
B) wow, If you step into a trap you get hit! Groundbreaking! So by that logic trapper needs a nerf because if you step into his trap you're stunned.
C) that's incorrect. The trap is coded in a pretty balanced way: if you step on it and move into its direction or hold w whilst running towards the location of her phantasm due to the camera turning, you'll get hit. But if you trigger the trap and run in the exact opposite direction the hag cannot BY ANY MEANS hit you if she performs the teleport lunge. So that proves two things here: you haven't played hag enough or at all and you don't know how she works.
D) I actually agree on this one, if you get trapped on hook it's a real 50/50 if your teammates understand that you're trapped. And when they unhook they're in a lose-lose situation: if they run they'll get hit, if they crouch they'll lose a lot of time and the hag might have time to return on hook by that time.
"There is absolutely NOTHING BALANCED about a killer whereby the determining chances of success against them is whether someone in the team happens to have the correct item.
I just don’t get it. How?! HOW?!"
Hag is a strategic killer. In order to easily defeat her you need to harass her web, that means surveil her movements and acting accordingly, something that it's not common on the survivor role. It's true that flashlights are also her weak point, alongside urban evasion, but let's keep em out of equation.
"All she provides is a lopsided experience for the killer using her, and misery, frustration and a sense of pointlessness “why even bother trying...” for the survivors."
I actually agree that her chases can feel one sided sometimes, but it's because of her role as a trapping and methodical killer. If the trapper traps a loop and you step on the trap, I believe that it would also be a one sided chase. What you argue rn is "if a hag plays correctly then the chased will end quickly", no #########! If every killer plays correctly then the chase ends quickly.
"Please, why aren’t more of the community speaking up about Hag’s very real, very big problems?!"
Because they're not big, neither real, sorry bud.
"i’d also like to add that ever since the change to Ruin, it is now an absurdly frustrating perk to deal with when hag runs it."
Hag doesn't even need slowdown, the only slowdown I run is sloppy. So you really haven't played against a lot of hags. I assume you played against a hag and she destroyed you, so you decided to complain in the forums.
"anything that’s either an objective or a loop/vault that’s likely trapped"
NO #########! Where should a killer that traps #########, use their traps?! Randomly on a corn field?!
"She is a stain on DBD. The only positive thing about her is that she isn’t played prolifically for some odd reason."
I disagree. Methodical killers are a good addition in dbd. The reason she's not played it's because swfs destroys her and she needs a lot of game knowledge to use her in her full capacity.
So basically what you're saying is: I can't hold m1 on gens or hold w against this killer pls delete!
What I'm saying is: you need a brain to play against a hag. But I do agree on the hook argument.
I agree, people literally complain about any killer, hag is not even the oppressive, you can easily trigger her traps when she busy , clicking click flashlight,maps, even perks counter her. People complain when a killer take more than a brain cell to adept too just look at wraith posts lol
Hag also have consistent counter play, just because it’s not a free win it’s not op lul
A small objections, not many maps counter her. If she can set a web around a 3gen it doesn't matter :p
Hag is A or B tier perhaps even worse, it's hard to know when so many have not learned how to counter her still. Quite fun to go against also. Be happy that not all killers just chase around all game. Hag is more about strategy.
I agree that the add-ons need to be changed. But the reason that you should crouch is simple: if you play against a killer that their traps activate only if you're sprinting, guess what you're not going to step in their traps
Because Freddy and demo teleport on their own will into a location. Hag traps trigger based on the survivor's mistake
The killer usually spawns on the other side of the map, what I do every game is running straight on where a killer is to make sure it's not a hag or trapper. If they are then I harass em.
MICHI :0 WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?!
The traps would only be disabled near active hooks, not all hooks; and, to prevent Hags from using a loophole to place the traps under the hook before picking up the survivor to hook them, remove any traps within the same range of the hook when a survivor is unhooked.
You won’t need to crouch walk everywhere 🧐, if you been playing for 4 years you would know that. If you are playing against decent hag then you known she’ll web a 3 gen usually that’s where you want to crouch and that’s where you want to pop a generator ASAP.
She has counter play, terrible hag will put 6 trap near a hook that also means there maybe only 4 trap somewhere else, it’s the equivalent of a face camping trapper just move on.
Good hag will usually put one around the hook and somewhere that’s not super obvious.
Also kudos on comparing Freddy and demodoggo to hag, they totally don’t play the same.
You would need the auto camera following otherwise you would just be disoriented as ######### depending on which side the survivor popped the trap and which side you were looking.
The only thing I would consider a Fix for hag is somehow remove the ability to use the mouse wheel as a teleport button, that feels cheap AF but I don’t know how BHVR would do that .
I think most people understand that Hag is nowhere close to Nurse or Spirit in terms of strength, she is not that good. But as you all know there are very few Hag players so many have no clue on how to counter her.
I play Hag from time to time and a "normal" game you have a good chance to win just like when playing most other killers that are not Trapper/Trickster weak. And sometimes you face a player that know to watch you set a trap, then run to the very edge of where trap goes off and then run away to a loop. That player does this and always just observe Hag from distans while the other do gens and trigger trap after trap. Suddenly Hag feels very weak. If you have a whole team where no one is triggering her traps on purpose then you are in trouble, this is why solos struggle.
It's ok to say that Hag is annoying that is fine, but OP? No way!
What mistake?
It's not like the lobby says "Oh, by the way, Hag" on the screen. I don't get into a match with Hag and think to myself "darn, I forgot to bring a flashlight or Urban Evasion... Guess this mistake will cost me the game."
"Oh, I guess I shouldn't have unhooked the survivor. Whether the Hag trapped this hook or not, I have to slowly crouch-walk in, unhook, pray the other survivor also crouches, and slowly crouch-walk 8m away just to stand back up, and-- oops, too late, the Hag's already ran back here. I made a mistake for trying to unhook a teammate while the Hag exists..."
Well any killer can win by 3 gen except legion lol, if anything hag need qol instead of straight up nerfs. She the only killer that is actually scary and they shouldn’t take that away from her
Can hag activate her traps herself by default? No. If the survivor steps on them, then she can teleport.
So I would argue that yes, unlike demo and Freddy, the only way for hag to use her power if she places her traps strategically so the survivors will step on them either by accident or on purpose.
By the way, after the first 2 minutes of the game, you normally know what killer it is. So you can be a bit more careful
If we're going to talk about "fun to go against" and "fairness", perhaps we shouldn't start at the killer side.
didn't it before
Keep in mind these guys just nerfed Freddy, and somehow managed to keep his gameplay the exact same. They have also ignored spirit for years now, so I don't think Hag has even crossed their minds.
Only if you got the survivor off after she teleports. Before you could carefully approach the hook, unhook them, they sprint burst away immediately, trigger a trap and go down 0.5 seconds later so I guess that's an unsafe unhook, thanks meg
About your first point: I think and behave that way, but then the next thing I know is that I’ve walked and triggered a trap that was practically invisible absolutely nowhere near nothing significant or important, where it makes no sense as to why it’s there. Oh great, now I’m downed and going to be proxy camped.
Exactly
You swing into them and pop them from your radius when she's busy/animation locked.
So wait, when Hag is busy, destroy traps. Wow dude.
It's why I have no issues with Hags in all my rank 1 games. Hag has pretty easy counter play.
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Yeah, I’ll just jump off the gen I’m currently on, at 5 gens, with Ruin still up, and Hag is at 3 or 4 hooks already, and I’m still not quite sure where traps have been set yet...
If this is the actual scenario you are in either you or your team are playing like complete potatoes. This scenario is a skill problem, not a Hag problem.
Yea but do you trust the design team anymore?
Just look at the last 1.5 years, Every Killer has an unhealthy ability. The worst one is Trickster. Not the strongest, but unhealthy af.
If you want them to rework hag she will be sth worse, most likely.
As a solo, it is beyond my control what team mates I get.
Why do I not see games like this almost ever then? Could you have carried them better?
Even then, that admits the issue isn't Hag, it's matchmaking, ranking, and rank reset problems giving you bad teammates in solo queue. Your focus should be on fixing those, not Hag.
I have faith. I think the team have improved fairness and balance substantially over the past year.
I can’t even...
So at the very least, you can’t see issue with spamming traps around a hooked survivor?!
Did you not read my initial post?
I literally stated that one of the changes she needs is increased distance of placing traps near hooks to prevent the heavy hook camping.
My apologies.
I did see that, but forgot at the time of responding to your latest comment.
It's alright, no worries.
I'm certainly open to more idea for changes to Hag, but the before anything else, I'd like them to address the traps at hook. I feel the solution is simple - Hag cannot place traps within x meters of a hooked survivor. If any traps already exist within the radius when a survivor is hooked, they will disappear and be added back to the Hag's "inventory". After this hypothetical change, they should see how Hag plays before any other significant changes.
Clarification: are you claiming I’m an entitled survivor main, or stating you are?
I’d hate that you’re disregarding my long history advocating for fairness for BOTH sides in this game.
I can agree with this.
Change this, then gather data.
the problem with survivors is that everything that is annoying usually is or means strong soo its strong=annoying, thats mostly the case. also 4 traps around? damn thats a bad hag and a half. also she is a camping killer her pwoer relys on camping because she set up a trap web and play around, or do you want her to cahse 110 survivors? she cant do that, she needs to camp in order to generate pressure because thats how her power woks, you place traps in a certain place, as i said, what you want is destroying hag, a killer that barely gets played and is mostly fine.
even if your comment was a joke lots of people think like you do, usrvivors just want ther tipic basic killer wich they can loop and dominate easily, otherwise is bad an toxic or "annoying" the magic word. when they get a killer who stands a chance and can put them to work they dont like it. i only agree with that statement when is Spirit, spirit is just dumb, and maybe Nurse aswell.
if you have to camp to win then your very bad Hag is played like a spider trap every loop and window like a spider web then down everyone also just because a killers strong doesn’t mean they need nerfs they need nerfs because there not fun to go against. Blight is an excellent example of a balanced killer he’s not annoying and he’s very fun to fight Hag is not fun to verse
you didnt understand anything of what i said, i literally said that she sets up a trap web you just took the first half on a argument and you stayed with that, she sets up yes but she also camps not by staying around necesarily because she can camp from distance, but is also true that she needs to stay around of the 40 mts web unless addons so you can immediately go back.
I don't get why you see yourself as a balancing hero. What I don't understand more is that you're literally ignoring the points I made, which prove that hag is balanced. So, according to some people in this post, what you're seeking is demanding to change a character that is both balanced and fun to play (and for some to go against).
So I imagine you either:
A) can't win over my arguments, which I doubt that since I left a pretty good room for counterarguments, for example, since the hag can tp only in 40 meters, and since her web is usually in a small 3gen area, then there will be little to no times where a hag cannot tp.
B) you got annoyed that I called you a survivor main, which seeing your mindset about hag, I suppose you have the same mindset about every killer you hate, balanced or not (that's a wild accusation, but I keep reading your rant and I come back to the same conclusion).
So in conclusion, I don't really see how you're trying balance the game for both sides, when you're ignoring the one side's arguments completely and don't suggest anything. Your post is quite literally "rework hag she op and unfun". I could state that for every killer I personally don't like and we'd had the same result