DS but let us TAP a generator
tapping a gen shouldnt remove DS it should make it lose its time like 8x faster or like 12% faster while doing something that currently removes it this would allow you to tap a generator but you wopuld lose it fast for working on it. Tapping a generator is strategic if you pallet stun and there is a gen around like (2m) i would 99.9% of the times go for a .1sec tap to stop it from regressing now tell me why that should break an perk made for anti tunneling? and give me a good reason why you shouldn't be able to tap a generator while getting chased in this case tunneled... now i dont hear survivors crying about noed. Now i understand that DS isnt really skillbased which is pretty sad but just the tapping thing really bugs me. I dont see a reason why you shouldnt be able to tap a generator. right now its possible to have a generator regress for 50 sec because you couldnt tap it and teammates are doing other gens i understand if working on it removes DS fine but being on it for half a second doenst mean that u arent getting tunneled!
Comments
*touches gen at 0% while injured with DS up, literally forfeiting DS in the most unoptimal use possible, getting downed shortly after*
CURSE YOU, KILLER!
No idea what they're actually trying to rationalize, either.
Right? Gotta be the strangest argument I've seen employed here, and I regularly read the posts of our most famous master baiter (conspicuous by his absence today, strangely)
I play without tracking perks in like 95% of my matches. since my main acc got that hammer of justice. i'm using it to get my points back to p3 level 50 everyone again mate,
And what does Bbq & Chili have to do with tapping a gen with ds?
I sense that Survivor side comin' out on chu
@AsherFrost
It doesn’t matter how often it happens. I assume probably a lot, considering most survivors want to work on the objective once they feel it is safe to do so.
Also, nobody asked how many times DS was abused, because it wasn’t that common for some killers who knew how to counter it. But here we are now.
No
@leafninja
Again, a generator at 0% is not progressing the match. I don’t know in which world you think it does.
It does matter. If you are tapping, not working on, just tapping a 0% gen Ds or the lack thereof isn't the problem, your inability to understand the game mechanics is. I get you had to come up with a situation where you felt you had an argument, but the situation you did come up with can only be described as some newbie rank 20 nonsense that Survivors don't actually do in games they want to win. The fact that you had to come up with such a ridiculous example honestly just goes to show how weak your original argument is.
BHVR should make it so that tapping a generator procs a Skill Check to stop regression.
That's actually a good idea, having the survivor need to "fix" what the kick damaged.
That said, it would also imply that you have to stay on said generator for at least the duration of the skill check, which in itself is already a good step away from the 1 frame tapping, but still not nearly as long as it should.
Also its one of thos things that will be way more punitive to the low rank survivors than the high one that never ever miss a skill check.
That would work.
I really don't play killer so yes, I'm bad at it. It doesn't matter, the killer still has to waste their time to kick the gen and sit through the animation. If you want to counter that, you should have to spend an equal amount of time in order to stop the regression. If the survivor feels it's safe enough to tap a gen, then they are not being tunneled.
The game is easy enough for survivors, there is no reason to make it even more brain dead.
The only problem with survivors is being paired with bad teammates and true tunneling from the start of the match. To fix those, the devs need to fix matchmaking and implement teleporting hooks (similar to how Pyramid Heads caging works) when there are 3 or more gens still needing to be repaired. Tunneling shouldn't be prevented when there is 2 or less gens due to the fact of how fast efficient survivors can pump out gens.
@AsherFrost
And which situation according to you did I come up with? This is the first time I am interacting with you about scenarios, unless you are referring to the scenario which a previous poster could no longer respond to.
You call my argument weak, when you yourself have no argument. Other than pinning this to a rank 20 which I am not, nor are the people that I have played with that this happens to. Nice try tho.
Thissss x100
If the killer who is 1 vs 4 has to go through a 2 second animation to start the gen regressing, survivors should have to repair it for more than 0,01 seconds to stop that regression.
@Raccoon
Why not instead of looking like you have no idea what you are talking about. Instead pay attention to the context in which the conversation was brought up.
I don’t mind if you tag me, you don’t have to refer to someone in 3rd person unless you’re afraid of addressing them directly, in which case I understand.
I never said clueless survivors should get away with allowing themselves to be oblivious to the fact that a killer can come back. That’s the scenario YOU came up with.
There are shortcuts a killer can take whether via a perk or just tracking knowledge to target that survivor. Keyword : Target. At which point even if the survivor took all the precautionary steps to not be tunneled, there is no way they are going to read the killers mind as to what they want to do. So my guess is you are going to say the survivor should just hop in a locker for the next 60 seconds until the killer figures it out?
The killer’s intention is there, they just aren’t getting punished for it in many cases.
I don't understand the usefulness of all these numbers since this is not the gen tapping trial here (which is probably legitimate, I read an interesting topic about normal VS Ruin regression speed). So I am repeating myself.
And this is true no matter what you think of gen tapping, whatever its reality, whatever its usefulness. I'll say something absurd to be understandable: DS shouldn't punish gen tapping, even if gen tapping didn't exist.
DS is used to punish a killer who is tunneling, not to arbitrarily punish a Survivor playing correctly despite facing a killer who is tunneling. And a killer who is tunneling a survivor who gen tap, is still a killer who is tunneling a survivor. A killer who is tunneling a survivor who is unhooking another survivor is still a killer who is tunneling. A killer who is tunneling a survivor who heals another dying survivor for less than a second is still a killer who is tunneling, etc.
What you want, and what currently is, is that a Survivor that the Killer is tunneling can do nothing but... be tunneled. Now, so that DS is not unnecessary and even harmful, the survivor has an interest in the killer tunneling it. It is absurd, the objective is precisely the opposite: that the killer does not do that, and if he does, that he be punished. And I'm not even talking about the impact of that nerf when the killer is snowballing: a survivor with DS isn't allowed to help the team.
It's always that with the killers: heads or tails, you should always lose against them, and if you lose, it is necessarily that you are stupid.
This nerf is abusive, and it is certainly one of the worst in terms of game design. I stop here and will not answer any more. My opinion is pretty clear: DS may deserve a change, but definitely not this one. Gen tapping may deserve a response, but not by disabling a perk used to respond to tunneling.
@Chatkovski
You hit the nail in the head.
I’ll just say. Many people including those of us who play killer understand exactly what you are talking about.
DS is now in a healthy state, finally. It still has it's annoying plays, like locker DS, but at least now killers are getting less punished for playing the game well and the perk is now less abusive. How many times I had hooded one survivor, chased and hooked another one, returned to the gen to find a healthy survivor working on the, downed him and got DS? Am I tunneling?
At least now if I got DS -- then it is deserved. Same thing for tapping the gen. If you tap gen -- you stop it from regressing and that's benefits the team. So it is clearly fair to stop the DS.
Being invisible for the 60 seconds was never a healthy or fair game, especially when killer plays against 4-3 stack SWFs. Most of the time they not showing you their good skills, but rather "outplay" you by using BT, DS, DH and Unbreakabill
I mean, if you have time to tap a generator ... you're clearly not being tunneled. Why should you continue to benefit from an Anti-Tunnel perk, exactly?
The issue with DS is Survivors have come to rely on it as a means of getting away with ridiculous things in a killer's face and not suffer for it. The perk has, for so long, outperformed its mandate.
If you are safe enough to tap a gen then you are not being tunneled. Stop trying to use ds as a troll perk like its been for years.
The situation where someone gets rescued, and then runs to a gen with 0 progress and just taps it. That's not something that happens.
Hit the ds stun first, tap the gen during the window after the killer has been stunned
DS is a anti tunnel perk, not an immunity.
I’m not sure even sluzzy can write normally excellent meme posts about how OP trickster is. And there’s already 500 DS nerf posts at this point.
@AsherFrost
No it doesn’t, but the one where (yet again repeating myself) the survivor manages to get to a safe spot and the killer tracks them down, ignoring the rest can and does.
As I said in an earlier post, I tried it and I didn’t even need to wonder if they still had DS because they had already been on a gen for at least a few seconds after I didn’t see them, when they were unhooked.
It is what it is. You can continue to say that it’s not that common, bottom line is DS was changed under the same circumstantial scenarios even tho many of us never even got to see DS as a stun, because it was that easy to counter. Now they have just made it even easier to go the scummy route should one choose to.
Ok. I agree, sometimes you can be rescued, get where you think you are safe, and get hit... So? What exactly makes that different from old ds? Y'all are acting like the sky is falling over nothing.
As for your example of actual game play. You hooked a survivor, they got free and managed to progress a gen, so you weren't tunneling, why should they still get the benefit of the anti-tunnel perk?
This post was made by an angry entitled surv main
Guess they're saying that if you don't get tunneled, can't get to an advantageous position or healed within that 60s window (which is now a huge part of DS' function...it is no longer 'free'), and opt to do something else as a priority instead, it's on the killer / not their misplay?
It's amusing to see someone complaining about the perk being easy to counter when it functions the same versus tunneling. Perhaps this is the birth of the 'proxy' tunnel.
Oh, before I forget, gotta tag Johnny!
@Johnny_XMan
Tapping a gen to stop regression (and therefore helping with your objective) should absolutely remove DS. Don't tap the gen.
but its a no brainer to tap a gen you would have done it without DS anyways so...
i noticed that lmao
why not so they should add so you have to work 20 sec on a gen to stop it from regressing?
@AsherFrost
The difference is that the killer’s next move is going to determine whether you can use DS or not. Or should the survivor just wait what 30-50 seconds just to make sure the killer isn’t going to play like scum? No thanks.
At that specific point tunneling is what it is: tunneling.
You can keep twisting the story but it ain’t going to work. Especially when I was the one who tested it and I meant to tunnel the survivor out, I wasn’t trying to avoid them.
@Raccoon
A killer intentionally tunneling is the survivor’s mistake? 😂 What an absurd statement.
Listen, if you’re going to go through a mediator at least have something smarter to say next time.
At least it was entertaining. 🤷♂️
Yea but to prevent that change buffing ruin it should only take the 5-10 seconds to stop regression but you still make progress on the gen during that time which means no gen tapping but no ruin buff by removing 5-10 seconds of progress per time you get back on a a gen
Well, sure, the idea isnt to make the 5-10 seconds not count toward the gen progression, durring that time you'll make it progress normaly, but you'll need to keep at it for that amount of time for it to get out of the "regression state".
Also, Ruin doesn't count as kick, never had, so that wouldn't happly here since, yaknow, the point of Ruin is to have gens regress without you having to kick them or have survivors tap them to stop it.
I'm not twisting anything. I can only go by what you type, not whatever thoughts you may have had at the moment.
I expect smart Survivors to pay attention to their surroundings and yes, pay attention to what the killer is doing, to determine whether or not it is a good idea to do something to remove ds. It'll take more thought now, rather than just always being there to use, you've got to plan out when you need it and when you can just hop on a gen/totem/heal a teammate. If your major complaint is about the thought required, I don't know what to tell you. I guess sorry you don't get to potato your way to a stun anymore.
@AsherFrost
No one is talking about ‘potato their way” to a stun. But nice way to again change the argument that was actually being had.
Guess I’ll just potato to a tunnel since the devs just made it easier.
ahha u accidentaly stop doing the gen on a ruin and now you have to wait 10 seconds extra ;) im a huge fan on the infinite gens you could do with doctor and ruin and how does it work will it pause the regress? will it still regress?
Here is what you said:
"The difference is that the killer’s next move is going to determine whether you can use DS or not. Or should the survivor just wait what 30-50 seconds just to make sure the killer isn’t going to play like scum? No thanks."
So to you, the difference (and clearly problem given the numerous complaints you have lodged here) is that you now have to pay attention to the killer's next move, which means prior to the nerf, you wouldn't do so, which is root vegetable thinking if I ever saw it.
Go ahead and tunnel. I don't care. It's a valid tactic as per the dev team, so have fun. If you can catch the Survivor 4 times, they deserve the sacrifice. Or, if they are smarter, they'll use their perks, surroundings and teammates to deny the sacrifice. Just that simple.
the killers cry about one thing and they fix it instantly survivors cry for a month to fix something they nerf it even more got damn trolls...
Its like i wrote something about face camping is toxic and you cant do anything about it as a solo players. Then i had a killer main saying yea i hate it when survivors t-bag and flashlight click its so toxic. like lmao they gain distance on t bags etc. killer mains are unstable and shouldnt have their opinion even considered before they play survivor and has the same thing happen to them
Yeah and the survivor isn't adding 20 seconds of progression to a gen by tapping it.
Also you can tap a gen while being chased fairly easily. Its not like it takes a lot of work. So yes you can be tunneled and tap a gen. They are not exclusive actions. Any survivor running past a regressing gen and not tapping it in a chase is kinda dumb.
The game is easy enough for survivors, there is no reason to make it even more brain dead
No its not. The game is brain dead for killer. I barely even try anymore unless its a killer I am bad with and get at least 2+ kills if not a 4k. The only time I don't seem to 4k is against a 4man SWF. Which is fine, I don't need to win every game and a team that works well together, I am not going to win a against. Anyone who thinks killer is harder probably also thinks 99% of their games are against swat SWF teams.
I'd actually be pro hook teleporting like cages.
@AsherFrost
And I stand by what I said. Only difference is that unlike you, I understand that if a killer has every intention of TUNNELING, even if the survivor has began to ‘tap’ a gen, the intention is there and therefore it is guess what? Still tunneling.
So if DS is suppose to punish tunneling, then the timer should not deactivate. Unless the survivor has made progress on their objective which is what has been pivoted as the only pre-requisite for it to work. Hiding and getting to a safe spot and touching a gen at 0% do not count as “progression” to the objective.
“Go ahead and tunnel” actually it’s more of a joke, but I can see that aside from not sharing the same views we don’t share the same humor. So I’ll leave you with this. You do you and I’ll keep doing me. Cuz at the end of the day we both know that this isn’t the end to this discussion. Tunneling is still being abused till this day, even with DS. So I’ll go ahead and have a conversation with non-biased players who understand both sides. Thanks
Ah yes, the classic "if you don't agree I'm right you must only play one side" argument. Fun stuff.
What exactly would stop people from just tapping constantly to do a gen with DS available?
Asking for my pet Chameleon, he's a Rank 1 Trapper who hates DS
If you're not healthy, have DS up, work on something, and get downed 5 seconds later?
Yeah, that's totally on you for not getting to an advantageous position or the healthy state before intentionally performing an action that you KNOW will deactivate your DS.
I'd hate to be the one to break it to you - The reason DS was nerfed was because it DIDN'T de-activate in scenarios like this and several others that provided free progression without repercussion. Try looking at what the survivor is doing/did before jumping to the same old tired responses. The killer downed someone that was unhooked within the last minute whose DS has been deactivated prematurely - How would that occur?
Glad you're entertained, though - That's certainly one way to feel about this dialogue @_@
i tried to 99 a gen and it tok like 4 taps to complete it when u couldnt se a single transparent pixel on it IM NOT TALKING ABOUT LONG TAPS im talking about clicking it for 0.2 seconds and then running away
I 100% agree.
The DS nerf was lightning fast!
I mean to be fair lad, you're still technically "doing the objective" because even though it's not a lot of time it's still progress. Besides you're not exactly being tunneled(what the Perk is supposed to prevent) if you can devout time any amount of time to an objective
You realize that if it became even easier for survivors to stop gen-regression or even do generator progress mid-chase a lot more killers would be incentivized EVEN HARDER to just tripple tunnel a survivor out of the game as quickly as possible and constantly slug?
I already hate the fact that those "strategies" are the best way to play against top level survivors to a point where i consistently spend half of my bleedout timer on the floor every match, but if we tipped the balance even further towards survivors that'd only get worse.
In fact even as a killer player i'd like to see this change reverted (because HELL if i'm not gonna tunnel the ######### out of people now with less DSs around just to get that one pair of hands off of gens permanently ASAP) and then replaced by something 3 years overdue, A PROPER REEVALUATION OF GEN RUSH TIMERS AND REPAIR EFFICIENCY.
Survivors mad a viable perk is slightly less abusable now