DS but let us TAP a generator
tapping a gen shouldnt remove DS it should make it lose its time like 8x faster or like 12% faster while doing something that currently removes it this would allow you to tap a generator but you wopuld lose it fast for working on it. Tapping a generator is strategic if you pallet stun and there is a gen around like (2m) i would 99.9% of the times go for a .1sec tap to stop it from regressing now tell me why that should break an perk made for anti tunneling? and give me a good reason why you shouldn't be able to tap a generator while getting chased in this case tunneled... now i dont hear survivors crying about noed. Now i understand that DS isnt really skillbased which is pretty sad but just the tapping thing really bugs me. I dont see a reason why you shouldnt be able to tap a generator. right now its possible to have a generator regress for 50 sec because you couldnt tap it and teammates are doing other gens i understand if working on it removes DS fine but being on it for half a second doenst mean that u arent getting tunneled!
Comments
No
It's probably been said in the 4 pages but...
Someone else unhooked you, let THEM do the tapping either before or after unhooking you. There you go, your DS will still be active.
Yes it did need a nerf because of swf. Now a problem stands with solo q
I only ever play solo q now everything is tunnel city
I just wanna play the game without having to run meta!!! >^<
Well tapping a gen shouldn't stop regression. You should be made to stick it for like 5-10 seconds to stop it base.
That's a new killer perk idea if I've seen one.
"after kicking a generator, it will automatically regress again if a survivor doesn't work on it for x/y/z seconds before leaving it"
Honestly I dont think it should be a perk It would probley end up weak. I just think the standard time to stop regression should be 4 times a long as the kick is because you know its 1 v 4.
They just want to run around and do whatever they want with impunity. That's all these threads are about. Don't listen to trolls like this
Then run decisive strike. And if your not being tunnelled then go do your thing stop complaining
True. Heck, making it a flat 5 seconds would be good, no need to make it take forever but long enough to make it be an actual task other than a simple tap.
It would screw Pop players over a bit though.. so many times have I popped the same generator a few times in a row because they insisted on tapping it on their way to the hook. (but those aren't that frequent, once you know they have pop, don't touch a regressing generator if you don't intend on working on it long enough to make up for the 25% regression)
Yes, the way gens can pop, tapping is very much an issue and absolutely should disable DS. It doesn't take away the perk entirely, but if you take an aggressive action, it ought to be disabled. It's taken how long for BHVR not only to address the issue, but to try (I did not say "fix," I said "try") to do something about this tomfoolery only shows BHVR needs new management. They have PTB for why? They don't listen to anyone but themselves and they hardly play their own game.
These arguments are useless. Don't give BHVR any more money.
and? It's part of your objective. If you want to keep DS, don't tap the gen. There's no argument against this.
I said starting. Regardless if it at 0% you still got on it to work on it no matter how little it is. You still starting it.
If you're being chased you shouldn't be gen tapping. If you are, then you should be confident with your looping skills, not rely on DS to give you immunity for 60 seconds. Now you actually have to make a choice that involves risk. I'm not arguing that gen tapping needs to go, it doesn't, it's just DS shouldn't protect you if you should choose to take the risk and tap it.
And no, it isn't brain dead for killers (except maybe Freddy). Most killers rely on the survivors to make mistakes in order to down them. The role is inherently more difficult than survivors since it's one brain versus 4 brains. Against competent survivors, gens should be done in 4-5 minutes. The only reason any one would think killer is easy would because they keep getting put up against bad players, over and over. And lets be honest here, the majority of survivors are bad.
Probably will sound like bias from a pure Killer player, but i like that you now have to choose between the security of DS and the progress of (additional) objectives.
And though i only play Killer, when i didn't i liked the thrill of Survivor.
It's not really thrilling to have security and prevent regression with 1 tap.
if you are pulled off the hook and the killer doesn't come directly back to you but finds you randomly doing a gen means you are being tunneled? good gods man! what the hell is your definition of tunneling?? if the killer comes within 96 meters of you for 1 minute while you do anything after you get off the hook? come on be real. tapping a gen while you're being CHASED is bull crap and you deserve to loose your DS... DS is supposed to deter you from being tunneled or save you if you are downed and picked up again. get real! if you TAP a generator you are FORWARDING the objectives of your side! there is no question there what so ever as you stopped the generator from regressing and thus less time to repair it later. this is the very definition of why they removed the ability to sit on a gen without being touched by the killer.. be glad your locker juke weponization of DS is still a go! IF I were making the change you'd have the maximum amount of time Inner Strength heals you IF you have the perk AND it's activated before DS fades off.
They should have made the DS change not that drastic.
The issue with DS was that (mostly swf) used it offensivly , go for save unhooks (with DS timer up), bullying the killer, doing gens in his face etc.
I think if they somehow made it that if you perform any action for 1-2 second inside the terror radius or within 30 m or something of the killer, then the timer should deactivate. Only bad players will now run DS, who wants a perk that demands you to do nothing for 60s to give you a chance to stun the killer only if he really comes, downs and picks you up in that timeframe? You dont know if the killer will tunnel you or not when you get unhooked most of the time. Killers switch aggro all the time, they are searching . You wont know if the killer comes to you or not, if he gets in the mood to tunnel or not.
The killer can be in a chase with a good looper not too far from the hook, notices that you get unhooked and decides, nah that the good looper is such a hassle, i ll search the guy that just got unhooked, he went down fast during the first chase, i ll tunnel him out of the game to get a easy win, if the guy has touched a gen or healed in the mean time even if he has the new DS, it doesnt matter, then i dont even need to wait a second to pick him up
The impact of the changes will be: SWF will adapt and not use DS anymore, now they cant bully the killer anymore, a much welcomed thing.
The problem comes with the solo q player. A guy gets unhooked and runs away to heal or start a gen. The killer comes in his direction (maybe coincidence, maybe on purpose because he searched for the poor guy to tunnel him out of the game) People will not use the new DS, but even if they did, the killer can tunnel him (which he could with the old DS too) and doesnt even need to wait a second to pick him up(sees that he touched a gen or healed). We will definitly see a lot more tunneling for the average soloq player.
I mean you worked on the gen, that is progression. It might only be .5%, but that's progression. If you tap a regressing gen to stop regression, you're still contributing to the team by stopping the regression. Also "hiding and getting to a safe spot" is not the same as "getting to a gen and working on it". Since intentions seem to be so important to you, the survivor intended to make progress, therefore DS should deactivate because in your own logic: therefore it is guess what? Still Progress.
DS is meant to help against tunnelers and farmers, but if you make a mistake as a player that's not on the perk that's on you. If you're so worried about it just don't touch a gen for 60 seconds to protect your DS or until you're sure the killer is off you. 10 seconds not long enough? Ok wait 30 then. When you feel like "ok I'm not tunneled anymore" then work on the gen. Its your decision, you decide whats more important: DS in case of tunnel or progress. They feel like they might be tunneled let them sit around with their DS blanket.
Tunneling can't be "abused" when its something allowed and intended by the devs. Unless some unintended interactions come from tunneling, like it did with old DS, then its not being abused. I don't even tunnel as killer and I understand that. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its being abused.
BTW I play both sides and have actually been playing more survivor lately before I get accused of being a KilLeR mAiN. I haven't run DS in months and if I get tunneled oh well, should have brought DS. Tbf tunneling doesn't really bother me since I have the knowledge of both sides to realize sometimes that its often, if not always, the best thing to do if you want to win. Tunnel kills and tunnel gens.
I sure as hell tunnel gens when I'm playing survivor, I choose not to tunnel when I play killer because I choose fun over optimal play. I don't expect others to do the same just because I would like them too.
If I wanted to be 100% fair I would tunnel on both sides or not on both sides. Ideally both sides would spread out their objective time. But from my experience, survivors only want killers to spread out their objective while they slam gens and are quite hypocritical. Since both sides can't agree, everyone just does what they want.
@Freki
Not going to bother typing what I have already typed several times. So I am going to re-direct you back to what I said.
I never used the word “found” as I realize that there are instances where the killer inevitably finds the survivor. At least bother to understand the context of what is being said before you put words in my mouth.
Good day.
If you're tapping gens, you're not being tunneled hard enough.
well if you're being found 10 second off the hook tapping a gen you're not necessarially being tunneled. you are right I DID read what you wrote and thought, why are you touching a gen with the killer so close.. oh yea someone who expects to be left alone for one minute becuase they MIGHT have DS so they could do anything they wanted. now you can't and you have to make choices. oh well get with the program you aren't supposed to have it easy at all. oh well enjoy
@MrPenguin
Intentions are only important because in the event the killer wants to track a survivor after they were unhooked, it doesn’t matter if the survivor thought their unhook would have a different outcome and the killer might have gone for someone else. The killer can still tunnel because that is what their intention was. Hence why the timer is so long on DS, unless you think it’s just a random number the devs chose? My issue isn’t with the survivor progressing the game, my issue is that merely touching it is being considered “progression” which it isn’t. As I’ve said before 0% gen isn’t creating progression for the survivor objective. Even if that is what they intended on doing.
Tunneling isn’t just waiting for someone to get unhooked to start heading back. There are other scenarios in which I have seen where the killer ignores other survivors because they are looking for that survivor that just got unhooked. That is tunneling, regardless of where you think a survivor might be on an “objective”.
i thought it was Twitter exclusive but you just ratiod the poor fool.
It is progress though. Even jut touching a gen progresses that gen. It might be a tiny amount but it does. Again, if you're worried about it don't touch the gen. You got 60 seconds, use them to help with tunneling or don't. Its not the perks fault you decided you didn't need it and then got whacked for it. If you decide "well tunneling is within 20 seconds" then don't touch a gen within 20 seconds. Easy.
Also either both intentions matter or neither does, stop holding double standards.
It doesn't matter if the killer thought the survivor would keep running because they were tunneled and the interaction would have a different outcome. The survivor can still make progress because that's what their intention was.
"Tunneling isn’t just waiting for someone to get unhooked to start heading back."
I never said it was. Don't know why you're bringing this up to me.
@MrPenguin
Sorry but touching a gen for 1 second does not progress the objective to warrant a deactivation of DS. If the survivor is oblivious to what the killer's real intentions are, you really think they are going to know that? No.
I am not saying that at that point the survivor will have to find other means, but I am also pointing out that, in this instance that IS tunneling. The killer specifically went to hunt that survivor down. Thus this is an action that is no longer punishable via the perk. The perk already has problems enough that it isn't a true anti-tunnel perk. For one, it should work on both hooks. Unless of course you think the killer can only tunnel off of hook #1.
On the last part I never said you said that. I am simply pointing out that tunneling isn't black and white as many seem to think. There is different context in each situation that should have been taken into account when changing the perk.
It does though. Remember old Ruin? The tapping method was a sure way to make generators progress while avoiding skillchecks.
@Marcavecunc
Nobody is talking about old Ruin. We are talking about what helps the team with progression to their objective, and a gen sitting at 0% isn't progression.
Yeah of course.. Old ruin's tapping method did not help the team progress to their objective, I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking.. The gens were progressing by magic, not because tapping them made them progress. Carry on with your misguided ideas.
1 second not being enough is you opinion and is different from your previous point of it not being progress at all. The survivor doesn't need to know the killers intentions to have DS up. If you, the survivor, want DS up then don't do anything to deactivate it. Otherwise its your fault for giving up your perk because you were greedy. Again, you want 30 seconds of safety don't do anything for 30 seconds. You don't need to know the killers intentions, its your decision. The devs give you 60 seconds with an option to opt out, you took the option, next time don't if it bothers you.
The conversation/thread isn't whether you can tunnel off more than the first hook or DS being anti-tunnel or not, its about touching a gen and DS turning off because touching a gen is progress. If you want that convo open another thread. For the record, my opinion is sure let it work on both hooks in its current form.
But progress is progress and as soon as you make any progress you should be fair game. Small or not, it was your decision, not the killers, so you have no one to blame but yourself for your DS being gone in this situation. That small progress could be the difference between the gen being done or it getting hit with Pop. 1 second can/does matter.
@MrPenguin
I understand that my "tapping" argument is different from OP's but if you understand that, then you would also understand that tapping a gen for 1 second, while it was sitting at 0% (meaning not one soul worked on it) isn't considered in any way shape or form progression. That is absurd.
You may want to look at it from the pre-requisite lense of what "deactivates" DS, but facts are facts, I am pretty sure the team would have escaped without that survivor's 1 second touch on that gen.
If the gen was at 40% (sure) if the gen was at 50% (most definitely) people on here think 0% is actually progressing the objective. Which I just have to laugh at.
No.
That man is gonna run out of straw eventually.
Why would you tap a 0% progressed generator right after being unhooked though? What's the flawed logic there? It's still a tap, it still gives a tiny tiny bit of progress. 1 second of progress is still 1/80th of a generator, which is 1.25% progression on that particular gen
@AsherFrost
Kind of like how you ran out of things to say earlier, but yet still tag me?
I think I said, thanks but no thanks a few posts ago.
I believe the last remark I had for you was the laugh I got at seeing you resort to "killer main" bs when you couldn't adequately defend your argument. Now here we are full circle with you trotting out the idea of Survivors being such potatoes that they tap gens that have 0 progress. As far as your personal preference on whether or not I comment? Sorry, public forum, that's how it works. But hey, keep bringing out the same tired strawman over and over, it's fun seeing you repeatedly lose the same argument to different people.
@AsherFrost
Didn't bother to read.
Also, I find it funny that in these insane scenarios, it ALWAYS has to be the guy that just got unhooked that taps the generator, never the one that did the unhooking, that would make too much sense for the guy without DS to tap it, to save the guy with DS his protection.
Somehow I am not surprised, probably not the first time either, definitely won't be the last.
For someone who claims not to want to converse with me, you reply awfully fast.
It is still tunneling.
If you want to see how this particular strawman was filled, just go back a few pages, you can stop when he admitted it was just some BS he made up :)
Enjoying your posts btw
I was going to say.. crazy how, for someone who doesn't want to interact with you, he took the time to respond that he didn't read your post, instead of, you know.. not reading it and going back to the discussions list
The game mechanics say it's not tunneling, if your DS deactivates, it's not a tunnel.
Haha yeah not going to read this entire thread but I can imagine he's just repeating the same ######### over and over and ignoring every counterargument to his flawed arguments like he's been doing since I joined in.
Pretty much. Honestly I'm kind of impressed he's kept that circle of bullshit rolling for over 6 hours now. A certain baiter has got some deep competition coming for the crown
Or even tapping the gen after hitting ds, when you've got an opportunity thanks to the stun and could reasonably get a tap off on your way to a better loop or teammate.
6 hours?! Holy #########! And yeah that baiter just showed up to take the relay, apparently. I'm probably not going to bother responding to either of them anymore, I mean.. if it has lasted that long, no point trying to hammer some sense into them. Somehow, I think they never played a single match of killer, to think like this.
No wonder they need the DS blanket, with such potato plays.
Yeah, I literally had enough time to get off work, get to the hotel I'm at this week for work, eat dinner, go shopping and come back to see it.
Anyway, off to bed now, have fun :)
Night! Going to try to get some progress done on some of those challenges :)
Game mechanics have no idea of the intentions of the killer. He is chasing someone and the perk is denying player choice to stop an objective from regressing even during a chase. That is horrendous.
This is very similiar to a person healing and the killer returns to look for the same person and tunnels. It is all still tunneling. Killer mains love the perk now because they can exploit it and tunnel. And, of course, inability to do the objective.
Oh yes.. When I get chased, I totally take the time to tap nearby generators to stop them from progressing and then complain when I get caught faster because of the stop.
Seriously if you really play that way, I can imagine why you need DS to survive. There's tutorials on YouTube to teach you how to be better at looping killers. And, just so you know, stopping to tap regressing generators mid-chase isn't one of the tactics in ANY of them.
You tap a gen at 0, then another survivor works on it, then the killer comes back for a pop proc or just to regress it, that 1% you did lets them pop the gen before you down them. That progress still matters.
Facts are facts, 1% progression is still progression. Whether they escaped or not doesn't matter. That 1 second could be an adrenaline proc, that 1 second is still progress, that "tap" is still progress.
What's absurd is when you choose to lose your DS and then you complain that you lost it. Just don't touch the gen. What's absurd is trying to say "its not considered progression" when it is literally progression.