So let's stop calling perks crutches.
It's like every perk you run as a survivor is considered a crutch. Whatnso you want me to do put on dark sense? I mean if you wanna call survivor perks crutches so are killers. Arent crutches just anything that helps you?
Either stop calling every good survivor perm a crutch or admit technically every perk I ls a crutch killer or survivor.
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"No survivor perk helps them complete gens faster or rewards them" *Dark sense, leader, resilience, and prove thyself have entered the chat*
Nobody runs nurses on spirit, and everyone already knows that noes is op, it is the only true crutch perk, and yes undying makes it better, but how many times has a good build Idea been ######### by some random vrainlet who spawns on you're totem
Crutches dont help you, they carry you. If someone needs to run perks that give them second chances, then yes, they are crutches. If someone runs them but doesn't need them, then they are just strong perks. How can you tell the difference? Because crutch users constantly complain the moment their mistakes aren't fixed for them.
And stop making everything is Vs them, it's so damn annoying. "Oh, survivors are the only ones that get called out for using crutches, oh woe is me." NOED gets more hate as a crutch than anything and you conveniently forgot about that. In fact, somehow, for some insane reason, people have began to call BBQ, Corrupt and even Pop crutch perks.
. . . what? You consider those crutches? I don't think you understand what crutch means, in this case. . .
Haunted grounds so OP, pls nurf, lol!
So leader and prove thyself was nerfed. Resilence means you have to stay injured. They are all bad.
As a survivor main I can confirm those are not crutches.
They literally just named all the fair perks that reward the killer for playing well, and didn't even name NOED.
They said haunted grounds is a crutch and didn't name noed.
Haunted grounds is not a crutch though that's the thing. This is a delusional survivor main.
Maybe when certain perks stop meeting the criteria of being a crutch (perk that gives a extremely strong benefit with no input from the player using it to benefit from its effect) I'll stop calling them crutch perks but until that day happens ill call them what they are.
Lol. No a majority of survivor and killer perks are not crutches
And it makes sense for killer perks to require less attention and be more passive as killers have more on their plate in game, but all survivors have to do is hold m1 out of chase and hold w in chase
People aren't upvoting you because the forum is biased, people aren't upvoting you because your viewpoints are flawed.
I dont care about upvotes I dont have a flawed view I play both sides. I try to talk about things objectively my posts are things I have seen and choose to bring up.
I'm sorry that I made this post. I shouldn't have but I did so in a heated state. I apologise. Even if I don't agree with some of your points, I shouldn't have been a jerk.
Look at this survivor with their wheelchair perks again
What killer ever said there weren't crutch perks for killers?
Already calling undying a crutch perk? Half the time it doesn't even save your hex because it gets taken first
I never said that I was merely pointing out its almost every good survivor perk is crutch or second chance how about read my post and see.
I dont mind I'm used to it. Dont worry about I'm not gonna take any offense to it.
Why should you have to save a city to activate one perk. That's why deliverance isnt meta getting a hook save isnt as easy as you think so qmany things that could happen especially spawning by the killer. There is nothing wrong with strong perks killer or survivor.
Not like bbq and chili takes much input litterally just play the game like normally and be awarded the survivors position and extra bp.
There is a very small pool of what we consider crutch perks on the dev team. Technician and Unrelenting come to mind.
That makes perfect sense one Carrie's your miss swings and the other carts your missed skill checks.
As an unrelenting technician, I feel personally offended by this.
I apologize, I did not intend any insult. There are exceptions to every rule! :)
Eh, I think technician is half a crutch, since it has two effects. The part where it doesn't blow up gens is a crutch, but the quiet repairs aren't really.
some of those are hardly crutches compared to perks like DS and Unbreakable
But it still takes input to get its effect, which by like definition would make it not a crutch, what do you do for unbreakables strong effect have the perk
get down like fool not hard
The input is you doing your normal objectives. Seriously. Unbreakable you need to get slugged theres a requirement. Aldo if the killer chases a survivor back titok the slug is unbreakable a problem? I've started doing that and the perk becomes considerably more weak.
Depends, a perk is only crutch if you can't play without it and that varies from person to person ? 🤔
If you genuinely think HG, Ruin, or Corrupt are crutches, you need to get good and leave rank 20. Undying is fairly mediocre as well as the perks that would benefit most(DH, Lullaby, and Third Seal) all reset when they move. Pop and BBQ are literally the opposite of crutches because they don't even do anything unless you hook a survivor.
No, being slugged is a prerequisite which generally all perks require so calling the prerequisite a reason to not require input for a strong effect is wrong. Example of perk that has a prerequisite, strong effect, and requires input from the player to get the effect deliverence
Prerequisite be on hook
Strong effect Unhook self 100% of the time on first stage
Input required Safe unhook another survivor
Now unbreakable in the same format
Prerequisite be in the dying state
Strong effect recover faster and pick yourself up off the ground once per game
Input required (none)
As you can see if the perk has a strong effect without requiring input from the player that generally by definition makes it a crutch perk
Aldo if the killer chases a survivor back titok the slug is unbreakable a problem (I don't know what this says / means)
Calling perks crutches and calling people who beat you bad is like telling someone they're using crutches for having a 50 cal sniper in COD and telling them they're bad for killing you with it , same difference except one community can't take a loss without making every excuse in and out of the book on why they lost, refusing to accept responsibility for their faults it's like a bunch of children in a toy store , they say that bad survivors and killers use x y and z perks to carry them but in all reality without those perks the survivors or killers aren't gonna play the same way they would with them, survivors aren't gonna try and make a killer eat DS if they don't have it they'll play different, it's irrelevant to call anything legal in game a crutch
I think it's clear by definition a crutch is something you cant win without. Meaning every perk is a crutch if you rely on it. Also sure it doesnt have a quest to do to activate it but the perk does exactly what it was made to do: counter slugging.
Almost everyone here is saying it's a perk that you cant win without not a perk that requires no input. That would make ruin a crutch because its requires no input to get value correct?
That is a good point; that effect is still useful.
Ruin wouldn't be a crutch because its not an extremely strong effect and if you want it to last longer you have to give up half of your perk slots for one decent effect, its strong against solo queue without kindred because forcing people off gens to go for saves is where ruin works best but against good players who split on gens ruin is no help
"crutch From a gaming perspective, a crutch is the use of an item or technique that is considered easier or generally way better than most options available,"
Unbreakable is a crutch by definition because its easy to use and for its effect its stronger than other available options
Deliverance is not a crutch because while it has a strong effect its not easy to use because it requires input
I'm curious, what's the definition you go with when it comes to the term "crutch", if any?
Personally I've always viewed it as something that lowers the skill floor AND the skill ceiling at the same time, but just from this thread it seems like there's quite a variety in the definitions people use. If you guys work with a clear definition of the term in mind it would be interesting to hear it 😄
I totally agree with this. Idk how many times I've walked into a game with DS, BT, DH, UB. And escaped workout even using them
We think of it as taking care of an issue that new players have, and veteran players don't. This is why Unrelenting is the prime example. Veteran Killers miss far fewer of their shots than new players, so the utility of this perk goes way down as you get better at the game.
I know we can construe this to mean that every perk is a crutch as if you were so good you wouldn't really need any perks anyway. But that's not a terribly useful path to go down.
So in the end, it's really a judgement call. I'm just trying to give some insight into how we look at those.
Cool, that makes sense. Sorta like "training wheels", and I don't mean that in a bad way - nothing inherently wrong with stuff like that 👍️
bbq is crutch?? Since when?😂
Many killers consider survivor perks crutches because they don’t understand how the game works.
I recently had someone tell me in post chat that exhaustion perks should be taken out of the game, to which I replied give me a weapon to fight back and I will gladly agree.
You only have to play survivor to understand that your role is to survive by whatever means necessary. The perks open up more possibilities in scenarios where you would otherwise be dead, but it is not always guaranteed that they will help.
It’s like, I’m sorry that my Unbreakable got me up once out of the 10 times you have slugged me. 🤣
so many people have been @ me for that. It's a crutch perk for newer players. More veteran players won't need it but that's why I call that one a crutch. Most of the ones I named were just the perks I see every game. People were reading to hard into it lmao
I think one of the biggest crutches to have ever been in the game was old mettle of man
Veteran here and I will continue to run bbq on my oni for bp, its potential, and most importantly it not being a crutch.
Like I said, more veteran players wouldn't consider it a crutch. People were getting mad that I mentioned some of these perks lol. But honestly I should've expected that.
Nothing crutch about more bp
I think it would be interesting to watch a tournament where people play a vanilla version of the game with no perks/items/add-ons.
For regular play, though, I don't understand the idea that the purest, most authentic, best way to play would be to opt out of one of the main features by not using perks. If the perks allow you to win, then... that is their purpose, is it not? If you want to call them a crutch, then you can call literally any other part of the game a crutch. Using pallets is a crutch. Kicking generators is a crutch. 360s are a crutch. The killer's special ability is a crutch.
If specific perks don't feel balanced, that's a fair thing to discuss, but it doesn't make sense to me to arbitrarily decide that anybody "should" be able to win without using part of the game.
I'm surprised you didn't use old Hex: Ruin as a example of a killer crutch.