So.. Pyramid head will soon be changed.
According to the Q&A stream Devs are monitoring PH. Most likely PH will get "minor changes" (still getting nurse flashbacks)...
Let us remember what so many people have complained about. I personally can only remember two specific things:
- Canceling Rites of Judgment (switching from M2 to M1) has a cooldown of 0.5 seconds. According to many people here this is much too low, because PH can simply fake his M2 without any punishment (0.5 seconds is not really noticeable). The legendary "get hit or get hit"-Situation was born.
- PH can negate a lot of perks because of his cages. Especially DS and BT users are NOT happy about that.
So what could they change to make people happy again? Increase the cooldown from 0.5 to 1 second? 1.5 second? 2 seconds? Yeah.. I don't know what they're planning, but a higher cooldown most likely means that he can no longer fake his ability. Since this is his TRUE STRENGTH, such a change would make him drop from tier A to tier C in no time (since I am not a friend of tiers this is only to illustrate that he would lose much of his viability).
So if the cooldown should be increased, then he should get something in return. I don't know what that could be, but just increasing the cooldown alone would kill PH. I don't even want to talk about the scond point. He has a unique ability and that is a good thing imo. But that alone doesn't make a good killer and I really hope that they don't mess him up.
What do you think about it? Will I soon be a sad PH main or will they find a good solution without ruining it completely?
Comments
In my eyes when I use a cage I am basically giving the survivors a totally free unhook in exchange for ignoring BT/DS.
Nerfing that would make the cages pointless imo. Right now there's like ~3 reasons to use them:
Saving a small amount of time isn't very good, and you rarely need to cage to stop a pallet save. So the nerf would mainly leave PH with just his M2 as his power, which by itself is kinda mediocre.
As someone who loves playing pyramid head and loves playing against pyramid head, his cage and m1/m2 switch is way more situational and rarer than I feel like the forums makes it out to be. I have to try really hard with environment add-ons to get people into cages, it's basically just looping punishment. The only time I saw the cage counter DS was with a tunneler. We still had 3 escapes with noed up and we still got the tunneled person out.
I've also never seen anyone properly use the switched up attack. Its so obvious what they are doing that any attempt at a 360 screws them. I think once I managed to use it while they ran in a straight line away from me.
Of course this is anecdotal evidence and I can't speak for ranks 4 and higher, but his strengths are very much about punishing cheeky players and screwing with perks (both killer and survivor). I will look for a few videos and see if I can find "good" players having real issues with his super avoidable mechanics.
As much as I love the idea of longer range attacks on him. He is already pretty oppressive with nurses calling and range add-ons. The amount of times I've caused DCs because I max range tapped them behind a wall is insane. Maybe they could add an increased lunge distance with the next melee after dropping a path (but not range attacking) and after a slow stun? Like after it he raises his blade into the air and drops it. Idk
It might be rare to you but idk how often you play survivor. Every single time I go against a GOOD PH I'm just screwed if I'm already injured at a window (and sometimes a pallet).
I personally don't care about the cages except for how much PH seems to love to tunnel (even without auras, it's really easy for PH to KNOW where you're gonna go based on where he cages you and thus be able to pull up on you easily). Otherwise, I don't really mind DS and BT being countered. It's just tough to deal with actual tunnelers (which, like I mentioned, a lot of PHs seem to be, unfortunately)
My only desired change to him would be for it have to be a little bit more of a committment for him to m1/m2 switch. Something closer to the likes of Huntress, and further from Deathslinger, you know? If he fakes an M2 he loses almost nothing if a survivor calls it out because of how quickly he can just smack them anyway.
In the end, though, I'm not currently too bothered by PH- I still care way more about Stridor Spirits and M&A Deathslingers. I'd rather see Spirit changed before they touch PH LMAO
If you wanna feel rewarded for shots, just make sure you go up against a lobby of Switch players 😭😭 Switch players have no rights and every single time I go against a PC PH, I get hit by POTDs that I should NOT be getting hit by LOL
Fyi Pyramid Head only moves 92% while planting his sword in the ground (basically a brief slowdown there), once it’s planted he moves 110% (so slightly slower but still faster than a survivor).
Personally I mainly plant short trails specifically in pallet drops and next to windows. The only way for survivors to avoid those is by not vaulting or dropping pallets, and if they do that then it’s still a win. Since trails last 60 seconds (or longer with add-ons) you can plant them as you pass by the vault/pallet locations in transition to a new chase to help block them off if a survivor tries to run to them once the chase starts.
Nerve the PH? Months after it comes out.. what do you call it ?😕
It's called balancing, lol.
Nurse, spirit, and Freddy are top 3 cause of their ability to end chases. Nurse having blinks, freddy snares and if it’s a smart Freddy using his teleportation for mindgames, and spirit being able to phase. And pyramid head only has his cages and his M2. If they nerf cages to where they apply to perks like DS and and BT then what’s the point. And if they nerf his M2 then I shouldn’t have to explain
Balanced ? Not really..🤗
I wouldn't. That attack is hard to aim. It would make him take actual skill, and if I die, I got outplayed, not forced into a lose lose situation with his free zoning.
Pyramid Head main here, he's not balanced in his current state. He needs changed to be closer to balanced and not just, "genrush and hope he's bad enough to mess up chases". The developers change whatever they want, whenever they want, to help balance the game. If you don't agree go become a dev to ensure you're calling the shots instead.
I just hope that almost all of his addons get reworked.
They are all so bland and useless except range and longer killer instinct duration
I just want them to change the blurry-ass low resolution razor wire VFX around the screen when you are afflicted.
@Almo I implore you to make reasonable changes to PH.
The one common complaint is his ability to fake his M2 and hit you with his M1. This should be addressed - perhaps also make his M2 not as punishing so that players use it more often instead of having to fake it.
Neutering him would be horrible and will just make players pick up Freddy and Spirit instead. Both of whom I find 'boring' (even though they are more stronger) to play as or against.
Mark my words...
All these people saying they would rather his PotD buffed to nerf his ability to zone, are going to wish it had stayed this way. Because that in itself is more powerful, it can go through obstacles the way an M1 can’t.
Granted we still don’t know what is being changed if anything meaningful at all.
Literally the only way he can M1 you after a fake is if you are locked in mid-animation while vaulting or throwing a pallet down. Which means you got too greedy. If you get hit in a dead zone he would have M1’d you no matter what, no need to fake it there.
Balanced? Is the nurse balanced for example?🤣
PH is going to take a big nerve and won't be able to do anything against Decisives and others ? You will only see very rare PH, like now !
Become a developer ? NO ! It's a responsibility that I don't want to take on ! And I will do it for free !
Oh year they clearly showed they are survivor sided with the last 2000 killer buffs and 3 killer nerfs.
Balanced? Is the nurse balanced for example?🤣
No, not particularly. She's bullshit strong, but then at the same time she takes so long to learn well so it's kind-a okay.
PH is going to take a big nerve and won't be able to do anything against Decisives and others ? You will only see very rare PH, like now !
I'd assume he'd have his cages changed to ensure it's significantly harder to immidiately tunnel survivor out of a cage. Also, if DS is that big of an issue, a special trick is to just chase another survivor. PH is already pretty rare now, but I'd still main him, at least until I see how he gets changed. It could be that he gets an overhaul, could be that they buff parts and nerf others, or could be it's just a nerf. I'll have to wait and see.
In short: No, i dont think they will change to much but no matter how much they change, you will be unhappy.
I hope they dont touch cages, this mechanic is totally fine in my opinion.
The only broken stuff is the notorious (you mixed that up with legendary) "get hit of get hit" mechanic, which should be indeed changed. I can not say how many seconds they have to add to the 0,5 seconds, but another 0,5 is probably not enough. Overall 1,5-2 seconds cooldown look right to me when i imagine the situation.
You just want the nerves of all killers, for tbag to Exitdoor... You tried it with Billy and in the end it didn't change anything ! You tried it with Bubba and it got worse, because now his charges make the speed longer ! Hé hé 🤣
Don't be surprised to find many Bubba and Billy in your games after that ! Talking about these two killers I come across them more and more, with Deathslinger (they wants nerve too, sure🤗).
It will be too funny soon, we know all the reputation of Bubba..
You just want the nerves of all killers, for tbag to Exitdoor... You tried it with Billy and in the end it didn't change anything ! You tried it with Bubba and it got worse, because now his charges make the speed longer ! Hé hé 🤣
I'm literally a killer main. I haven't played much survivor in almost 3 months.
Don't be surprised to find many Bubba and Billy in your games after that ! Talking about these two killers I come across them more and more, with Deathslinger (they wants nerve too, sure🤗).
I enjoy facing Billy, and considering Bubba is one of the killers I play frequently I'd be fine with that too. I already face a ######### ton of slingers so I'll take that.
It will be too funny soon, we know all the reputation of Bubba..
Again, don't play survivor, so you won't be laughing at that because it won't happen. Do try again, sweetie x
Tell me, do you know what anti loop killers do?
Litteraly not understand...
I'm not sweetie, sir !😕
or you know... pyramid heads can start to learn how to actually use his range attack instead of going for fakes and it's not like he loses his oppressiveness he can still force players to ignore windows and pallets or risk getting hit by the range attack during animation lock and even if they do the pyramid head can decide if he wants to cancel his power if he thinks he can m1 them before they loop back around or just commit to the range attack.
i don't think they need to do anything to the cages per say but maybe make it that getting unhooked removes torment as well as getting uncaged or uncageing other survivors that way he can't just cage a survivor who just got unhooked without getting them tormented first but he can still hook a survivor who was just uncaged seeing as he can't exactly camp a caged survivor.
They will make his butt bigger
Now this I can get behind :3
Spirit isnt really an issue..stridor may be a tad much for her but, since iron will exists it's a grey area..she still has to get you like anyone else , but ph..all he has right now is his zoning..dodging his line is just way too easy usually
Wouldnt mind cooldown adjustments but don't nerfs the cages, one killer having a preventable advantage over a handful of perks is not an issue.
Nope, for example; Huntress- you know exactly when she pulls a hatchet, you have ample opportunity to try and dodge it. Imagine if she could pull hatchets as fast as DS ADS Spam, though if she were made today, she probably would.
DS and PH being able to spam their power and get free zoning, or Spirit negating everything entirely is not good design, sorry but nothing will change my mind.
being able to use the knowledge that a killer is using their power and attempting to play around it, kinda obvious, no?
inb4 im called a sUrViVor mAIN -
https://gyazo.com/3c2b89fef7584ca906adc961375bb1eb
This is the most simple change they can do add a cooldown between M2 and M1 but M2 doesn’t have a punishing cooldown anymore problem solved since people don’t understand the reason he has no cooldown in-between currently is because of the penalty on missing the ranged attack
Meanwhile the devs
BHVR: So we found that PH is under scrutiny right now so we are going tk do a vote to fix him. Who thinks PH should be gutted so survivors can mindlessly play?
The 4 survivors: Yeah he should be gutted.
The one killer: Hes a good fun killer, can't you use different perks instead? He shouldnt be nerfed.
BHVR: Whelp 4 ppl say yes and one say no, gutting here we come.
Any survivor ######### with my boy PH needs to stfu and learn the ######### Game. Ya'all got so much stuff to carry your ######### ass and still complain.. Look at yourselves..
Anymore nerfs would destroy ph. His addons are all completely worthless excluding his few that increase the distance of his range attack. It's pretty ridiculous that his purple and pink addons are complete garbage, giving him possibly the worst addons of any killer. His main ability is also useless and here's why. Yes, he makes survivor hook perks worthless however you make killer hook perks worthless as well which are some of the best in the game. Pyramid head has no map pressure and playing him without pop goes the weasel is a nightmare. Let's get back to his main ability, it's next to impossible to get survivors to run through his trails on any outdoor maps assuming there was any reason to cage people in the first place. Think about it, pyramid struggles with map pressure so he needs to rely on hooked survivors for his pressure. Sending the downed survivor to the other side of the map to be immediately rescued and healed destroys all your pressure. Not to mention all the time you wasted trying to corrupt that survivor in the first place. Unless you're playing against rank 20-13 survivors his Main ability is only going to hurt you. So what does pyramid have left? His range attack of course. In low ranks and against unskilled survivors his rang attack is an absolute nightmare for the survivors. Once you hit about rank 8 and 95% of your matches are skilled solo survivors or swf his range attack is all but worthless. Every single survivor has caught on to the mind games and won't fall for them and his rang attack is extremely easy to dodge. In high ranks you'll just end up missing and extending the time of the chase even longer. Once in a while you'll land a lucky hit but that's about it. Worthless addons, worthless main ability, no map pressure, leaves pyramid head with a semi decent range attack and that's it. Pyramid head punishes low rank survivors hard but in the higher ranks he's almost worthless. I main killer and survivor pretty equally and I'm so fed up with survivors flat out sucking and ruining killers because they can't learn to adapt.
Even with a cool down I think he'll be fine as I've main PH since his release and hardly ever used that fake out. So I have no feelings, I would also not mind his perks being active in cages along with survivor perks being on because I think it's a win win. He'll still be strong
I think a simple small cooldown after releasing m2 would be more than reasonable. Just give him the same speed penalty as huntress when she puts a hatchet away. Maybe in return, shorten the fatigue duration after a missed m2
The devs changing his cool down won’t affect his tier list but actually make him require more skill. He still keeps his power to hit through wall, he still has his cages(which is his true strength and I don’t think anyone can argue against that), he still keeps his movement speed. The only difference is that you as the killer will now have to predict the survivor’s movement which is what pyramid head was all about. Otherwise what’s the point having a killer that can hit through walls? The fact he can neglect ds, allowing him to have the power to put anyone in stage 2 instantly, doesn’t sound strong? He still has his anti lose with a fast kill rate, but that isn’t enough for you? In that logic, people can put Huntress in c tier as well because she also has a cool down when putting her hatchet back. However people still rank her high in the tier list, so pyramid head having an increase cooldown won’t affect him, he will just take more skill. You can still play him the same, this tome you would just have to make a good decision.
Putting him in c tier just because they increase his cooldown? First off that doesn’t affect his true strength at all because a good pyramid head would be able to read the survivor’s movement and still get a hit. It makes no sense to use a killer that can hit through walls if you can’t read people’s movement. Secondly, his actual strength is what you said below which is that he can neglect ds. If you play killer you know that if a team doesn’t have ds, the best option is tunnelling because you get a person in death hook instantly with no punishment. With this and his fast chases is the reason why he is A tier. His get hit or get hit is just a bonus to that and lowers his skill cap.
I say the only thing PH needs is a perceivable cooldown on his Punishment of the Damned. Between PH, Leatherface, Dream Pallets Freddy, Billy, Spirit, Nurse and Clown, this game is already too much of a spamfiesta for killers. The rest is already ok, to me.
They should just take away his free zoning.
Wait, he is? I still find it EXTREMELY difficult to actually punish a bad loop with his M2. They end up being literally like, 5 degrees off to the side of it most of the time.
Yes, I definitely cannot agree with you. You basically say: "Faking his attack to get a guaranteed hit is fine, but guessing where the survivor might be behind a wall is just as good". Especially when we think of his 3 second cooldown for every missed attempt AND the fact that his POTD is not an instant hit and can be easily dodged, this makes no sense imo. I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure you don't play PH at all. At least not in red ranks.
I think they should add a short cooldown if he cancels his M2 too fast - (e.g., if he holds his M2 for under 2.5 seconds he gets a 1 second animation cooldown if he cancels)
This way, he can't just hold M2 everytime he sees that you are going for a window / pallet. Instead he either has to predict that you will be going to that window / pallet and start his animation earlier or actually attempt to land the shot instead of cancelling for a free M1.
Also if he was able to predict that you were going to the pallet / window from a distance then he should be rewarded by being able to cancel and have a free M1.
With this change he also doesn't get punished for laying down spikes around the map.
They can compensate for this by reducing the cooldown on missed M2s.
Copy pasted from another thread
Because a 50/50 is not a 50/50 with some killers.
A Spirit with Stridor
A Pyramid Head with I'm All Ears
Death Slinger having a half second shoot time etc...
In these situations you don't feel equal with the killer, both sides don't have the same chance …
The community seems mostly ok with PH, it seems the vocal minority is running the show again
Right cuz PH can counter every DS and BT ... first you must be tormented and you still have a chance to remove it by saving a survivor from cage... but i guess one killer must always be nerfed now that billy was nerfed ... lets see who you want to nerf next
1) Make his Punishment of the Damned (ranged attack) only usable on Survivors suffering from Tormented (!!!) BUT
2) Make Punishment of the Damned much, much faster and not clunky to control (IE, give it the same turn-speed / control scheme as when not using Rites of Judgement). Think charged hatchet fast, still dodgeable but not braindead easy.
3) Make both hooking and caging remove tormented, but only for the one being unhooked / uncaged and not the unhooker / uncager
4) Allow all hook related perks to work with cages, both killer and survivor
My biggest issue with playing as PH is how clunky he feels. Seriously, no matter how good you get with him, Punishment of the Damned still controls like hot garbage. Because his ranged attack is so easy to dodge it's rarely used outside of locked animations, which makes his common playstyle feel very binary.
This is the first part of his in-client description: "The Executioner is a map-manipulation Killer, able to torment Survivors with the hazards he creates." Yet he definitely does not feel like a "map-manipulation Killer". That's because at current being "Tormented" isn't very threatening; Cages are situational and Final Judgement... well, you're dead anyways if you get to that point, mini-mori or not. By tying his ranged attack to his trails you shift emphasis to the fabled "map-manipulation" playstyle he is meant to embody while freeing up some power budget to make Punishment of the Damned not feel terrible. This also gives a bit more counterplay in that Survivors can choose to avoid the Tormented status to not have to go through the animation-lock traps he currently relies on.
The second part of his in-client description is much more straight-forward: "Affected Survivors will be vulnerable to his special Hook, the Cage of Atonement and his special mori, Final Judgement." It says it right there; SPECIAL HOOK. Keyword being HOOK. The cage is a hook for all intents and purposes. I get it, wanted to maybe shake up the meta with PH? Didn't really work, everyone is still taking the same builds. The difference is that survivors are getting frustrated by not being able to use the perks that they took and PH's builds are more limited as opposed to being able to come up with something creative cage-fueled builds such as Devour Hope / Make Your Choice / etc build.
They are built with chase mechanics. That doesn't mean they should have no counterplay at all.
if they finally increase the cooldown to switch m2/m1 .they should also reduce the cooldown after doing a m2 range attack to compensate, i prefer trying to dodge PH range attacks( kinda like huntress)....but yeah The legendary "get hit or get hit"-Situation is so dumb right now and i hate it
I’m saying that the devs making a cooldown longer won’t put him anywhere below B. He still keeps his anti loop and the ability to put someone in death hook instantly which will keep him in A.
Firstly, it’s easy to dodge depending on where the killer lines his attack up and if that person has dead hard. If it was so easy then no would would get hit by it in the first place by it. So calling it easy to dodge simply is bs because what’s the point running all ears if it easy to dodge?
Secondly, the person missing isn’t on the killer, but the player so we need to get that straight because how good the killer perform is on the player. A person missing their attack frequently shouldn’t mean the killer is bad. So when we talk about a good pyramid head they hardly to ever misses because the killer has no reason to miss his attack. At best 4 times in one match and once again it’s on the player(unless the person has dead hard).
I don’t understand why people use the argument of what if you miss because many people who play nurse miss their attack, but do we see her low in the tier list often?
If you are talking about pyramid head in red ranks then you should have a good understanding as to why he should have a longer cooldown when leaving his m2.
I really enjoy playing pyramid head but his ability to walk around with m2 and then just smack you if you don't drop the pallet/vault a window definitely needs to get nerfed.
I really wouldn't mind seeing punishment of the damned apply torment as well but this might be too strong and promote campy gameplay (hitting unhooked and unhooker then just caging).
More incentive to cage would be cool too. BBQ activating or cage spawning closer but allowing hook perks could be interesting.
Kinda sucks that's how that works because there r more survivors than killers, but then again that is the fairest/easiest way to plan what they need to do
I can see them nerfing the m2 cancel into m1, but that's about it. Cages will likely stay as is, they were designed to be unique not just an easier unhook.
If he gets nerfed, he needs compensation for it.