Leovanni
Leovanni
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- Leovanni
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799679#Comment_2799679
There is nothing toxic about playing to win from the outset.
"If I pay hitmen to break the knees of the best opposing soccer players, it's just good strategy! We win every game and make way more money back than what we paid!"
Or some past dbd examples
"If I body block the hook so no one can unhook, that's just good strategy... Wow they removed body blocking hooks! I wonder why??"
"If I place Charlotte at the top of the stairs on the farmhouse and control Victor right next to her, i can body block the basement for a full two minutes, easy 100% kills! Wow they removed that too, i wonder why? It was such a great way to win games"
Doing everything you can to win doesn't exclude you from being a bad person in competition. Being the worst player possible to secure little victories does make you toxic.
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If I load into a game and a Bubba with lethal pursuer finds and downs me in under a minute and face camps me until I die, this is not toxic or holding me hostage.
But if I kill myself on hook or DC when it's obvious I won't be able to play the game, that is toxic.
In every game ever, if you are preventing another player from participating in a match, then it's toxic behavior full stop.
Toxic behavior, by definition, is any unpleasant or insidious behavior. Obviously in a PvP game that need to bend a lot, but no one can find a good argument saying that being face camped isn't the most unpleasant experience possible in this game next to being slugged and bled out for four minutes.
Reiterating above. Camping or tunneling to secure a kill near the end of the game is one thing. Starting the game with face camping/tunneling is a completely different thing.
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I agree that as tunneling and camping becomes harder to do killers will need a buff. But you can't change looping, it's the best part of the game. which leaves perks and abilities. Buffing every ability would be too hard so giving killers 5-6 perks would be great! HOWEVER, they would need a limit on slow down and chase perks. Having 6 slow down perks would ruin the game. Every killer would be slowdown Freddy and everyone would quit. Then having 6 chase perks would be a nightmare. Even as a pure meme build people already can't handle my fire up, bamboozle, brutal strength, and enduring trapper. I can't imagine having franklin's/spirit fury and lightborn as well.
Adding a limit of how many of each type of perk would be a great way to give killers more power without making them insanely oppressive.
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Yes, because ever game I play against I have one-two DCs. Literally havent had a real game against him.
Edit: Had my first no DC pinhead game, immediately tunneled out of the game through DS. Love this game.
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The concept of MMR works, but not in a game like this. It is not balanced enough killer to killer, addon to addon, perk to perk. You could account for the randomness of a 4v1, but not if addons and perks are not balanced and accounted for.
All they needed to do was expand the rank system and adjust some of the values for camping/tunnel meta.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2495222#Comment_2495222
Wow. Have you been playing consistently for the past few months? Maybe there's not enough data about you for the algorithm.
Yes, not super consistently, but I held red rank survivor for a year.
Next three games after posting this was;
dc at 5gens; tunneled by plague.
Oni that was fairly good at using his powers and managed to get three downs in 30 seconds in the middle of haddonfield.
Next game was pinhead where someone dced after 30 seconds and second person killed themselves on hook.
My only guess is that I usually play with one other friend, I am wondering if the MMR system doesn't know how to handle it. They quit playing because of the MMR, so now this is my true solo que experience. Just got into another game will update it on results now that I havent had an escape in 6 games (three times died first hook).
Edit: Next game was against a hook camping huntress, couldnt really determine skill cause they were hitting people pointblank.
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Game feels literally unplayable. I either die first hook or meme on the killer so hard that I fear that will quit the game.
Being unable to see how well I am doing or what I should expect from killers (like seeing their mmr sucks). I knew at different color grades what to expect (like green almost always have noed), but cant seem to do that now.
As I was writing this between games, my next game someone dced and the first person on hook killed self at 5 gens.
I cant even tell how well I am doing because I cant even get realistic games.
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I have had one fun game and no even games in 20+ matches.
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@Mringasa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1941428#Comment_1941428
Completely untrue. I rarely survive my matches because I play stupid a lot and prefer to see others escape rather than me.
Pips are coming at the usual rate for my own playstyle. Getting singles reasonably often, and only depipped twice when I was blown out of the match early, once from tunneling and once because I was dumb. Over roughly 25-30 matches.
If a single emblem category is causing you to depip all the time, you need to work more on your gameplay. Not saying the category isn't broken, it obviously is, but don't exaggerate the effect of this.
The emblem system is literally broken atm the developers themselves literally posted about it for the next bug update. You can earn enough to almost pip up and still lose a pip.
Personally I'll take the depips, purple ranks are the best. No noeds, no sweaty tryhards, less common to see purple and iri add-ons where they actually know how to use em.
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These games are so ridiculous.
If i don't have to deal with the usual BS of black ward double iri/purple killers and super boring zero hook to 2 sac noed killers, its just attempting to loop killers, watching my character stick on every animation, get hit, drop a pallet, take a step, then watch them hit me over the pallet. This last one happened three times in 4 games.
I tried playing a couple killer games to see if it was just me being rusty or tired and i swtg i could M1 within 10 meters of a survivor and it would hit no matter what. I could latch Victor onto a survivor without aiming. At one point they couldn't even kill victor when I did miss. Just watched the two of them huddle around until I could strike again. (Could also be that they were panicing and not holding the button?)
I'm spending hours to get one good game and then they don't even feel good cause it ends up being a baby killer just trying for the new quests.
Do they not have a quality control team? Is the PTB just there so they can make sure their new stuff doesn't literally crash the game, all else be damned?
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50% of games at least me or one friend gets tunneled/ camped (red to purple ranks). If we get a green rank killer, its more like 90% of the time (noed included). Two days ago I almost lost a rank because I was tunneled 4 games in a row. This is counting face / proxy camping and obvious tunneling / magically they chose the same person to chase and hook 3 times before even hitting another survivor.
I play average 10 games a day.
(Anyone willing to count up the stats for this thread?)
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Now that I'm solidly into the red ranks, I don't see tunneling as often. But unfortunately it's super countered by just looping them. Also helps if you see someone getting tunneled, try to run with them and split track marks. You gotta practice to know when that works, but it does often work once you get the hang of it.
But no, tunneling really doesn't require any skill. Its more luck that you find the worst looper on their team, then knowledge to know how far you need to walk away to trick them into unhooking quickly. Also it's so boring. Even the most aggravating survivors get boring to chase and hook after the 2nd one...
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People's experience with this game seems to wildly vary...
I think I'd be happy if they added slenderman and made NOED require two dull totems to activate. I've seen way to many bad killers gain ranks using noed to get 1-3 sacs they never deserved. Always laughable when they get to purple and red ranks start depipping them left and right though.
Otherwise I wish they would finally admit this is not a horror game and stop saying "tunneling/camping is a viable strategy". I don't even care if they make changes with this statement.
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Bubba should also have his own tier. 4/5 games against bubba they are camping/tunneling with insidious,whispers, and/or franklin's.
Pyramid head is one I've been seeing a lot of lately. But they never seen competent enough to pull it off correctly. Like chasing someone for 4 mins while we complete all the gens and open both gates.
Otherwise agreed.
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Everything about Freddy is laggy unfortunately. Last game I played against him, he wouldn't stop phasing while I was awake. He was literally just popping in and out of reality. Also same game I watched him hit someone from no joke, 30yds away.
But I have seen the glitch you are talking about. He just holds his hand up like he is about to cast a spell or something. For the longest time I just thought it was his normal idle animation.
Probably won't be fixed for awhile. : (
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People aren't out of touch. A lot of people just have trouble separating anecdotal evidence from real evidence and from falling into the bad memories trap.
From what I've seen balance wise, my guess is that they watch games and review some data and try to see what just looks stupid and fix that. All else is fair game.
Watching someone take 40 seconds to heal, that's stupid. Watching someone hook, find a new survivor, down them, kick a gen with pop, then hook the 2nd survivor? Stupid. Watching a killer be unavoidable at melee+ range at higher skill levels? Stupid. Have a perk that no one can use when even trying (by any means)? Stupid.
DS is used to punish tunnelers but completely avoidable? Not stupid.
Survivor runs up with syptic agent and BT during end game collapse to counter your NOED. You suck and deserve it tbh, not stupid. Requires massive setup.
Spirit feels omnipresent? It is stupid, but unfortunately counter able by being good at looping and using iron will (another common perk). Based on what the devs say and do, will probably need spirit slightly in a few more patches.
This is just based on what I've seen devs talk about (except the BT one, that's my opinion, and probably fact)
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As I've gotten into the purple ranks and started getting a real variety of survivors. I have noticed that playing killer can sometimes be luck based. Like just where I spawned and where they spawned was very ideal for the survivors and it gives them a free minute. That or you get unlucky finding the one good looper in an ideal area for them and waste a minute before realizing they have way to many pallets and walls to work with.
You may just need to adapt and get better at understanding map lay out on a tactical game to game basis. That's what I had to do at least.
For real though the amount of times a killer has gotten me as a survivor because they caught me in a area with no good walls, vaults, or pallets is stupid. Its really just about learning when to pursue and when to let them bleed. (In my experience so far)
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Maybe a tad OP for SWF groups. You could run by each other and start firing to help each other get away.
But it would be really funny shooting killers in the face.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
Object of Obsession teams
Never knew this was a thing until my rank 1 buddy showed me how strong it is against the hag last night. She got two hooks and one was because she saw a blood spot (via bloodhound) in front of a locker while I was waiting for inner strength to heal up.
Uhhhh one thing I dislike... NOED. Just feels really bad to do so well just to get sacrificed on the first hook during end game collapse. I've started bringing maps or small game nearly every match because I hate it so much.
One thing I like (for balance): the community isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I particularly like how people will share or be helpful if they can be. I've had some good conversations with random players
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1634295#Comment_1634295
I totally CAMPED someone when I get a DC the minute I find the first survivor. That's right, first survivor found (not seen just found) they dc... please tell me how I camped that survivor? or even tunneled them when I had not hooked a single person. then the next one to dc was the claudette that ran me quite well and I finally got them downed.... they dc'd right then. lol keep saying it's only because the killer is bad etc.
DC penalties should exist and they should escalate to complete game blocking by bhvr. I don't care how many hours you have in, 5 minutes is nothing. 10 minutes is nothing. should start maybe 5 minutes, then 10 minutes then 30 minutes, then 2 hours, then 6 hours, then up from there. this should be done on behavior's side and through steam so steam locks them out of playing thus no one can mess with it like hackers have done.
"suicide on hook" this is fine as it is using in match functionality.
I am tired of people saying they shouldn't exist, the penalties are needed, the rules in the game need to be enforced. at this point people are exploiting a feature designed to end games that would never end due to a bug or issue that occurred.
If I understand correctly I talked about this: "...which is I hook them in under 30 seconds. You can't fix bad luck though...".
I also never stated that there shouldn't be a penalty (unless you mean other people's on this discussion?)
Tbh I think they need to address why people DC before they introduce stronger penalties. If you introduce strong penalties right away, people will just stop playing altogether in frustration. Hmm... Or maybe add in game penalties, like item restrictions? That wouldn't affect others too much.... I think
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Maybe a visual showing the cage being opened or just the noise no visual. Its already pretty strong considering they can't use DS, do a flashlight/sabo save, or get any other benefits. That or maybe a full indicator of it spawns next to someone and they are "unhooked" in under 10. That'd be more balanced.
On a side note, where is our new struggle phase for hooks? I thought they said they were gonna introduce the pyramid head cage struggle to normal hooks?
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99% sure it's because they can't figure out how to do 2-3 of the starter challenges. Which PS ebony mori does not help you get iridescent devotion and you only need a green mori for devour hope.
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I should use a key in my next survivor match and franklin's in my next killer match in honor of this post. Just to remind myself that the scary 2-4 man hatch escapes aren't real (meaning that they actually needed the key to escape).
Just use franklin's. I'll sometimes pop on a key just to make them waste the perk slot. It's literally that effective against keys.
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Stop camping or tunneling perhaps? That may be the easiest way to deal with it. I don't I've ever gotten DCs as a killer except in one case. Which is I hook them in under 30 seconds. Can't fix bad luck on their part though.
Reasons I've seen people leave as survivor: ebony mori, camping, tunneling (like true camping and tunneling), bad luck like mentioned above, and iridescent hatchet huntress. Never understood why on the last one.
Of the few times I've left, it's usually just because they brought an ebony mori and it's truly a waste of time to play against an ebony mori.
Would get way less DCs if you got awarded Blood points for being mori'd or at least didn't get depipped in any game where an ebony mori comes in.
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Completely understand. I almost exclusively play SWF or killer now. When I do solo-que I go in with expectation to complete a portion of a quest or to at least try not to de-pip. Escaping becomes a luxury.
I highly suggest joining a dbd discord to play with people. Me and my friends (including friends I've made via random games) sometimes don't even talk about what is in the game (unless the killer has gone full sweaty). We just chat about life or try to one up each other making the games much more enjoyable.
(You can also punish true campers by leaving as a group or working together to ensure at least two get out)
Hopefully they will do something to dissuade tunneling or camping. Something that isn't an easy to acquire perk that has a 3 day avoidable stun.
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Genrushing isn't real, DS is just an anti-tunneler perk, ruin and DS are completely different categories (ruin being slow-down perk, DS being pseudo second chance/countermeasures), anecdotal evidence is not real evidence that can speak to game balance. Especially for streamers and youtube people who can alter the evidence.
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"I completely failed to achieve my only goal in the game and my back up plan of camping and tunneling to get one kill keeps failing because the survivors take anti-camping/tunneling perks. I deserve to get that last pity kill for a reason I will not explain. I think the best way to fix this, is to deactivate the anti-tunneling perks."
The easiest way to fix this problem is to focus on your mid game gen protection. Stop chasing and start scaring them off gens. You'll get lucky and catch them out of place eventually. If they are so much better and well equipped that you cant do that, then you either got carried too high via scummy methods or the game is simply giving you an L. Then remember, they can only use DS once per game and it's not as 100% as you think for usage.
Then I hate to say it but you can also use noed to cancel out swarming survivors. If they get both gates, all 5 totems, and 5 gens before you kill someone, that's just a 100% loss then. But odds are, there is one will hidden dull totem that'll make it to the end with you.
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Even as a 4 man swf group doing an attempted gen rush, they still have to get one of those last 1-2 gens and I've seen games as both killer and survivor where it just never happened.
Games with flashlights and looping gods all around feel much more gen rushy. Its not always how fast, but how effective they are at objectives.
Still, the entire idea of rushing the only objective is kinda funny. Maybe we should have a term for killers to, like hook rushing. "They just double tapped me and hooked me in the first 40 seconds! Total hook rusher!"
Edit: I've been informed this is exactly what an ebony mori does and it's true.
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@Gylfie said:
Nobody is going to care about this but I feel the need to share my story on how I finished this challenge. I brought DS against a Trapper on Lampkin Lane. Played like an absolute muffin so I'd get tunneled in order to be able to use DS. Got tunneled, used DS and became the obsession. Fast forward to the end, I'm on death hook and only me and Meg are still alive, one gen to go. We finish the last gen while Trapper is walking towards us. Meg and I split up and he decides to go after me.
I go stand behind a bush and mentally give up. He lunges from behind the bush and whacks the bush with all his might. I think "oh, he missed!" and start running. He lunges at me at a pallet and misses. He lunges at me again and misses. I run inside a building near the exit gate and go upstairs. He lunges and misses. In the meantime, Meg had opened the exit gate. I vault the upstairs window towards the gate but don't have nearly enough distance to make it. Then, as I'm desperately running towards freedom, I hear a loud grunt behind me and realise the Trapper walked into his own trap. I escape.
This was the most insane way I ever completed a challenge.
"Absolute muffin" is now my favorite description and I love the story. Thanks!
I ended getting the quest done in a similar way 😃 but against a doctor that didn't know you could dodge his blasts.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
If they increase his switch delay then I'd think they would have to increase his base range on his ranged attack as a trade off as he would be too weak without it.
The trade off would mean his binary pallet/window play would be heavily weakened but his more skillful long range attacks would be more viable.
As much as I love the idea of longer range attacks on him. He is already pretty oppressive with nurses calling and range add-ons. The amount of times I've caused DCs because I max range tapped them behind a wall is insane. Maybe they could add an increased lunge distance with the next melee after dropping a path (but not range attacking) and after a slow stun? Like after it he raises his blade into the air and drops it. Idk
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As someone who loves playing pyramid head and loves playing against pyramid head, his cage and m1/m2 switch is way more situational and rarer than I feel like the forums makes it out to be. I have to try really hard with environment add-ons to get people into cages, it's basically just looping punishment. The only time I saw the cage counter DS was with a tunneler. We still had 3 escapes with noed up and we still got the tunneled person out.
I've also never seen anyone properly use the switched up attack. Its so obvious what they are doing that any attempt at a 360 screws them. I think once I managed to use it while they ran in a straight line away from me.
Of course this is anecdotal evidence and I can't speak for ranks 4 and higher, but his strengths are very much about punishing cheeky players and screwing with perks (both killer and survivor). I will look for a few videos and see if I can find "good" players having real issues with his super avoidable mechanics.
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That's pretty much it. Don't tunnel, don't camp, don't slug more than 1 person and create an impossible to win situation (and by that I mean essentially camping two-three slugs).
Also games where the last person is allowed to escape immediately nullifies any rage me and my friends feel from a bad game. Not like you need two pips per game.
As a killer myself, I also try to add games to the game. Try to do psyche out looping at the sacrifice of gens, do weird builds or place weird limitations (double iridescent oni with sloppy and thatna, no death hooks unless everyone is injured and has two hooks is my favorite). I like showing off my prowess while allowing them to show off their skills, makes any sacs feel way more worth it and I get a lot of friend requests doing that too (from survivors).
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Thank you all for the comments! I'll definitely try For the People from Zarina. Wasnt even aware it was a perk!
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Found this forum in que, got immediately put against a freddy, got downed through a pallet. Not dropped, stunned, and hit. Straight up hit me over the pallet that I had dropped early. its those jazz hands I swear
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@Pior_Morte said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1566681#Comment_1566681
What happened at the second game? you were walking and it disappeared? I didn't understand
Sorry. On the game, on the stairs near to the second floor, like the first step down, i was mori'd by Myers. my friend who was playing with me, saw exactly where i died and with my help via discord scoured the area and could not find the key. The only place he didnt check was on the 1st floor behind the stairs.
So i didnt lose the key until I died (no wards or keyring). Oh do items go away with mori;s? i swear ive picked up items off bodies before.
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@XGamerDrizzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1554792#Comment_1554792
Did a Survivor give you the key?
No, I brought it in myself. Been blowing through my keys on everyone testing it. Unfortunately its not always needed or viable lol
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@XGamerDrizzy said:
Happened to me three times in a row trying to escape with my very rare item which I thankfully finished in another match. I was walking all over the hatch trying out different angles to open it but it wasn't opening and that's when Tombstone Myers found me :c
Oof that sucks. I think tombstone MM is the only true horror aspect in this game. Glad to see that I am probably not crazy though
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@Pior_Morte said:
Both killer and survivor can only interact with the Hatch at one side, here is a quick draw of it
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V4QSWLLHFF4W/hatchlll.png
You can only open or close it at this side, so this is probably what happened to you.
At the second game the killer could be using Franklyn's Demise so that why you lost the key.
That may be the case. I am fairly certain I tried all 4 sides, at one point I was running in circles panicking cause the wraith was walking straight at me! But maybe I never actually went to the correct side lol. When I accidentally used it on the 3rd game, I was standing on top of the hatch exactly.
For the MM game, he didn't have demise, I clearly had the key in my inventory (per say) before he mori'd me, but maybe it just fell to the first floor. I've sent that happen twice. (The game map)
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3rd game with key. this time it worked on autohaven -gas station against pig. I had to use some of the charge first. Prompt did not show up, but M1 worked.
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Next game with a key against an ebony mori MM (Shape). Key disappeared, did not have any addons and used Puzzle piece offering for gideon map. technically a different glitch, but maybe related.
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Clearly pallets should stun the survivors as well. Like they gotta stop and pull out splinters.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1528397#Comment_1528397
So you sit through lobby simulator, take the time to see if its a certain killer. Wait until killer actually uses it. And then DC. Because you dont want to waste time for 5000 bloodpoints. (Which if you play the game you get more than that even if you are morid early. ) Which then after you DC you get zero points.
I honestly don't get the logic?
Idk my ques as survivor are instant on PC. Then I only want to play because I have a chance of winning. If I am 4 gens to go and I see legion mori'ing someone after first hook. That becomes a waste of time to me. I'll maybe earn 15k, very hard earned. As in I unhooked the other two and we each healed each other plus each did a gen and escaped a chase once. In reality this described game was always a hatch game and those odds are very very low. The game becomes extremely stressful and I'd much rather wait 5 minutes and instant que than earn 5-15k blood points over a 10-15 minute game that I stopped enjoying 2-5 minutes in. I just do not have the skill to pull that off that stressed out either. So my points would probably be around 10k.
Maybe wouldn't mind it if bring mori'd gave me the escape points. But not legion's. Foreal though, legion's makes me insanely uncomfortable. Stopped playing for a few days the first time and only time it happened and I refuse to watch it again.
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It is baffling to me how well killers are able to find me when I sometimes have trouble finding survivors myself. It's especially impressive on high pressure games when they use odd perks and killers. But it also now baffles me further when killers are super toxic. 4x slugging, camping, tunneling, etc. No challenge in doing that! I slugged 3 people one game and got so bored chasing the 4th I just let them all go. Must be a power thing...
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I've had problems with him too early on. In my experience, baiting out his bottles and forcing him to reload helps a lot. Sprint burst is also nice, as his bottles are a lot harder to hit with and a lot less useful if you are farther away.
But to reiterate the others, just stay split. I've seen a lot of games fall apart because two people stack, get hit, then body block each other in the acid fog.
You can drop pallets early on him when he is coming through a choke point as well to bait out and waste bottles.
Most clowns also announce they see you by chucking bottles at you from a distance. Just waste their time running and stopping to bait more bottles out then treat them like any M1 killer.
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Since MMR came out I am almost exclusively play 3-4 swf or killer. It's seems to be the only way to get an even match (1-2 out, 2-3 dead).
Problem with swf: has no effect if they aren't using a voice chat or are not in the same room. 2 player swf, barely does anything that a map or key cant do.
3-4 players with voice chat, it's fuxking difficult to counter as killer. But tbh, it hasn't really affected my games as killer unless they are like red ranked and can actually use the knowledge to their advantage.
When I play swf (4), we normally don't even talk about what's happening in the game, we just chat or try to get each other killed.
"Hey **** where are you?" "Uh, at the gen by the shack" "k, I brought you a hillbilly"
Also I am 90% sure they tell you it's a swf group via the little globe symbol by their name. It's not common and I've only had one game where I noticed it made a difference (see above example with red ranks).
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I'll stick around to see if it's an ebony mori. If it's ebony, I just leave. I don't want to waste my time with a high-chance toxic killer to get 5k blood points.
If it's legion, I leave the second I see a mori of any kind. Their animation makes me feel extremely uncomfortable and honestly I am surprised it's stayed the same for so long. They really should change it to all 4 running out and stabbing them quickly or something.
But in short, I've never experienced an ebony mori where the killer wasnt 100% tunneling or camping. So it's never worth it from a survivor perspective.
When I get mori quests, I use yellow ones because it doesn't feel like I'm wasting anyone's time then. Or the spirit rancor.