Gen times are fine and DS is a anti-tunnel perk
A video from spacecoconut:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t7DCDGERTEThey played like crap, still could do 4 gens. Kate / Zarina just did something else, where not even tunneled, still forced their DS out by offensive plays you could not make without it.
Conclusion: Gen speed too fast and DS is not a anti-tunnel perk, it's just an excuse for survivors to be invulnerable for one minute.
Comments
Wow, your favorite content creator had a bad game, this is sure solid proof this game is unbalanced. Survivormains rekt.
Disclaimer: Although frequently labeled and used as such, DS isn´t just an anti tunnel perk. I think it´s fine as is btw, with two exceptions: Paired with UB to form the uncounterable combo and in Endgame where getting unhooked within 150 yards of the gates means you escaped no matter what.
Gen speed can and can´t be fine at the same time imo. It depends on the Killer chosen, the tiles that spawned as well as the map, and the willingness of the survivors to hold m1.
Yeah, a video from one of the most biased Killer Mains is a good source.
i think ds is fine the problem is if you run it with unbreakable and just gen rush. a whole team with ds, unbreakable, exhaustion perk, and BT with gen rushing isn't beatable especially if the survivors are good.
DS is a ANTI MOMENTUM perk, not a ANTI TUNNEL perk, and its not 60 seconds of invincibility.
I completely disagree with your conclusion. Especially considering it was an easy 4K. Stop dropping chases. Stop falling for every dead hard. Don’t pick up survivors who are baiting DS is you’re worried about DS.
The fact he got through multiple flashlight save attempts is incredible.
Yup. We all go in and out of potato. Trial to trial. Minute to minute.
Not on it´s own unless the gens are done, but if paired with unbreakable it leaves the Killer the choice between camping the slug and throwing the game or ignoring the survivor and throwing the game if the other Survivors decided to equip both of these perks as well.
I like both UB and DS as survivor but it is really obvious how strong the combo is with no downside, or isn´t it?
Dont even need to watch that video to know that its about the same mimimi as always. That coconut guy is so biased he has not even played survivor beside a few times, yet he has the audacity to judge about game design what makes him look completly redicilous. His opinion is pretty much without any value.
Where's my dead horse? It's time to beat it again.
Personally I think we should have some sort of AI overlord watching the progress of the game. If gens are progressing too fast it slows them down. If the killer is on a roll or people have died/quit it speeds them up.
Gen times arent neccesary a problem, the map sizes are the problem.
Also DS is a ,,anti momentum" perk, not a anti tunnel.
But only because a youtuber or streamer got stomped, doesnt mean its a prove for the games unbalance.
Gen times are fine where they are. The worst thing the devs could do right now on the survivor end is increase the gen times. Holding M1/R1/RB is already boring enough for 80 seconds. There is no need to make it even more boring. They either need to add in another objective, or dial down on the map size. On smaller maps the gen speed is fine because killers can pressure gens better. The Decisive and Unbreakable perk combo should be fixed and Decisive should deactivate upon getting in a locker. Aside from that it is fine where it is.
It has been acknowledged by the devs that the current speed of the game favors survivors - that's literally why they're adding a "warmup" portion to each trial.
i agree ds is bs but gen times are fine
gens are the most broing part of the game for survivors and the way you fix the games that end in 3 mins is map sizes shrink maps so that the whole thing of pressure gens stoopid, is actually possible since you can walk there in like 15s to interrupt
TLDR: shrink maps so you get more interaction between killer and survivor
Yeah was pretty amazing how a guy running Lightborn managed to dodge several flashlight saves...
Disable it during endgame too and this is perfect.
I play both survivor and killer and DS is an annoying perk but honestly it's not nearly as obnoxious as it used to be. It can be crutch when you get stunned with DS while the gates are open , but I also had times I unlocked the gate as survivor and 2 seconds later a NOED nurse teleported and downed me. Both sides have crutch perks in the right situations. I'm not high rank though so take my opnion with a grain of salt but that's what I think of it.
(Also buff/rework Wraith :()
Red rank killer here. I don't have a problem with it. Maybe I should start streaming?
Thought it was shadowborn 🤓
You make a fair point, but I think the original one stands, though this example doesn't help it.
DS needs a change. Even going off of the Devs own reasons for nerfing Ruin, it should've been nerfed.
1.) DS is run in a majority of games. I am not saying that everyone runs it, I am merely observing that it is likely that at least two people will have it in every game.
2.) It punishes newer players who may not know about it and it also punishes new Survivors who may not be able to hit those skillchecks yet, so they get tunneled after they miss it.
3.) If there is an obsession (say someone is running MoM for some reason, or the Killer is running STBFL) Killer's will respect DS even if they don't know it is in the game, that is a HUGE amount of passive pressure without even having to activate the perk.
4.) It is inconsistent. It never actually stops tunneling (though it may not be an anti-tunnel perk) and often times it will prompt the Killer to make sure that Survivor is taken out of the game ASAP.
"1.) DS is run in a majority of games. I am not saying that everyone runs it, I am merely observing that it is likely that at least two people will have it in every game."
Well, thx Killers playstyle. I would love to run a Perk which might not even be of use. But if there is no Obsession, the Killer will tunnel. And most of them do regardless. This is why DS is run.
"3.) If there is an obsession (say someone is running MoM for some reason, or the Killer is running STBFL) Killer's will respect DS even if they don't know it is in the game, that is a HUGE amount of passive pressure without even having to activate the perk."
You say that as if it is bad thing when Killers dont go right after the unhooked person...
IF the Devs decide to rework DS another time, it should be a true Anti-Tunnel Perk. It can have restrictions, but if the Killer decides to go for the Unhooked Person, they should get hit by DS, regardless what they do. No slugging or whatsoever.
DS is NO Anti-Tunnel Perk. If a Killer chases me for more than one minute, they still tunneled, but my DS is gone. If the Killer slugs me, they still tunneled.
And well, opening a Thread with a video from this person who does not even play Survivor (like, never) is not helpful.
Lets do like that
Sto DS is an anti tunnel perk anp saying thatd start saying that is an perk to you dont get hooked 2 timer in less then 1 minute
Problem solve
1.) And why was Ruin run in every game? Because games went too quickly at high levels. The reason WHY it was run didn't matter when Ruin was nerfed, so why should it matter here?
3.) It is a bad thing. I, for one, do not enjoy being slugged on the ground for a minute when I am not even running DS. It is such a huge threat that the mere possibility will change the behavior of other players.
My personal idea for a DS rework is as follows:
DS no longer has a timer.
DS cannot be activated in the EGC.
DS will be active on both hook states, even if you used it previously.
DS will deactivate if another Survivor is downed.
DS will deactivate if you are fully healed.
DS will deactivate if you are doing an action for 10+ seconds.
You dont really have to "play well" to out gen a killer. Holding M1 when the killer isn't chasing you isn't hard. Also DS has been criticized/mocked by many fog whisperers and streamers because of how poorly designed it is and it has yet to receive a rework. Even Peanits said he liked the idea of it deactivating when the survivor progresses the game in any way. At this point I've given up in hoping it'll be changed into an actual anti tunneling perk.
Your statements regarding Killer playstyle comes off as low key shaming for playing efficiently. Against better Survivors the Killer simply can´t keep up if they decided to play the 12 hook game, 2 hooks each before someone gets sacrificed. This can only be done against potatoes or if the Killer is a godlike Nurse or Spirit.
"Most of them tunnel" is an experience I don´t quite share, so I kinda feel bad for you.
I don´t enjoy Spacecoconut because of his strong bias, but @Pulsar makes a fair point: The Devs reasoning concerning ruin is not applied to DS for some reason. I´m always red ranks and I can go for weeks and not have a match with less than 2 DS.
I get hit by it very rarely but simply by existing it forces the Killer to play intentionally worse. Kind of like the threat of Noed forces Survivors to not play optimally but to do bones. (Haven´t run Noed in well over a year outside of meme builds though, it´s so useless).
I just looked at the perks for 30 games in red ranks and ds + unbreakable is not a common combination. Unbreakable is not even in the top 5 used perks.
What the hell? He does not even say a thing in the game, you have not watched it. I came to the conclusion.
"1.) And why was Ruin run in every game? Because games went too quickly at high levels. The reason WHY it was run didn't matter when Ruin was nerfed, so why should it matter here?"
I dont see that much difference since Ruin got nerfed when it comes to game length. Not in my Survivor games at least (I did not run it as Killer, since I dislike Hex-Perks, they stress me).
"3.) It is a bad thing. I, for one, do not enjoy being slugged on the ground for a minute when I am not even running DS. It is such a huge threat that the mere possibility will change the behavior of other players."
I mean, it is totally better to be back on the hook immediatly than to be slugged for a minute, totally...
In the end, whatever they will do with DS, Killers will have won and maybe be free to tunnel. Yay. Because that playstyle is already present, but it will just be even more prominent. And this thanks to people who decide to make stupid actions with active DS, so that players who use it normally get punished as well. Really looking forward to it.
""Most of them tunnel" is an experience I don´t quite share, so I kinda feel bad for you."
I mean, in quite a lot of games I dont get my DS to activate. A few of them are when the Killer is chasing me and slugs me or cannot catch me (and I dont run Unbreakable). But I once did not use DS for a whole evening and I got tunneled every game.
In the end, it is whatever, Devs are changing their mind here and there, they also said that you should not expect to have all 5 Gens left after two minutes, still they want to impement something. So yeah, dont worry, they will give DS the MoM-Treatment and Killers will go for the next Perk. :>
I get your frustration, I hate getting tunneled as well. It seems you´re so bitter about the topic.
There´s so much salt on this forum and too many people just rant because they don´t like x or y. I´m guilty of this as well in my campaign to change Object of Obsession, but we should try to stay reasonable and present our arguments in a manner the DEVs may accept.
There IS an issue with DS though as it is too easily exploitable. At least in my opinion. Can you acknowledge that there are things Survivor "mains" won with and won´t shut up about?
Ruin comes to mind. Prayer beads, forever freddy, Insta and crack Billy to give just a few examples.
As a Killer "main" I´d say these were good changes for the game. In case of DS and tunneling we need an incentive NOT to tunnel since as of now it´s often simply the best play.
That's wrong its anti tunnel from the developers themselves.
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
I highlighted the part that confirms its anti tunnel.
Gens are fine except at the very beginning of the game. Once early game warmup is added it will be much better. This game is balanced for around 3.5 survivors which is why the start of the game feels so bad because the beginning of the game every survivor is on a gen.
Like i said in my first 3 words of my posting that i indeed did not watch it. Why should anybody watch his videos? He is not good at the game, all he does is whining about stuff he has far to less understanding off and his constand river crying is not entertaining aswell.
Posting a vid doesn't prove any point whatsoever, it should be acknowledged by now.
People should stop using other peeps's videos to justify posts, they won't change anything, bring your own arguments with a good structure,
Instant saw needed to go, but I liked Speed Billy :(
combine it with gen rush and dont bother healing unless you go against a strong killer like spirit or nurse. the point is you get unhooked and just focus on gens the killer can't touch you for 1 minute besides making you waste ds or unbreakable which is fine when you and your team are going to finish gens in under like 6 minutes. the perks combined with gen rush makes it so you dont get punished for focusing on gens instead of backing off and healing/ not working on a gen or taking a risk.
Man, that is an awful example. That's an incredibly strong survivor map and he made a ton of mistakes. He let survivors have a free unhook after ds was used, he blatantly fell for the locker ds play, and he fell for dead hard in the open way too many times.
On top of that, the gens didnt get done, 4 gens took almost 10 minutes, and he had no gen slowdown perks.
You can check my post history, I'm very killer sided. I don't consider gen speed to be a problem unless all 5 are done in under 6 minutes with strong killer pressure.
Don't know how I feel. That's always been something I see both logical sides. If the killer is camping you because it's endgame and you are hooked by the door, you shouldn't have a free escape regardless. However, I also feel as though it's the killers fault for not pushing the decisive out sooner or getting the survivors on death hook.