Killer stop crying and accept the game wants to be balanced around 50/50
I think the biggest problem in dead by daylight is that a lot of killer don’t understand or can’t accept that the game is/ will be balanced around 50/50, that means that a killer played well if he gets 2 or more kills. But why so many killer expect to get 4k every match? A lot of them think „it don’t feels like a win if a survivor escape“. I can understand those killer cause it’s the goal of killer to kill survivors and if they don’t kill all four survivors think they miss their goal. So it’s a psychological problem of the game: it’s hard to understand that 3k are still a „win“. But those killer who can’t accept this 50/50 are the players who are crying for all the survivor perk nerfs and say the game is unbalanced or survivor sided. These are the player with a tryhard playstyles (tunneling, camping, insta mori, slug for 4k) what makes the game really unfun. You have to take a look on the other side, the survivor: if a killer could easy 4k every single game there are four players who couldn’t „win“, escape. It’s needed that every killer have different results: 0-1k, 2k or 3-4k, so the survivor gave the chance of 50/50 too. Sometimes you have some „bad games“ in a row, but in total you will get your 50/50, and that’s needed on both sides.
It’s a bit sad that the devs don’t show us the actual stats but here you can see the last one from november 2019:
You can see that the killrates were over 50% (2 kills) so it’s nearly balanced for both sides or more killersided (70%). When I play killer I’m still fine with 2k and around 25.000 bloodpoints, that’s mostly a „gg“ for both sides. So please stop crying and try to find a way to count 3k as your personal win and know that 2k are still fine. Play the game in a fair way and accept that you don’t need 4k every game and have fun. Nobody can „win“ always ;)
The only real issue is the actual matchmaking which makes it very difficult and unfair for lower rank killer who faces highrank survivors, but I hope the new matchmaking will coming soon and makes the matches for these player more fun.
I‘m very interested in what you are think about that, so feel free to leave a comment.
Comments
"That‘s how the game works."
Well aware, I literally posted "thats how the game tallies points"
My point was in a game where 2k is considered a tie, its misleading, because its by all counts a loss for the killer, and all 4 survivors could actually pip up meaning win for them, loss for killer.
@DaFireSquirtle
When I write 50/50 balance it means 2k are fine and more are a win. But a lot of killer expect 4k every game and that’s the issue. They ask for survivor nerfs only they don’t get 4k in every single match!
For sure, the game has a lot of balancing issues (e.g. matchmaking, bugs) but tell me how often you get destroyed by a 4 man swf where you don’t hook and kill survivors? And how often you have 3 or 4k? This result should be round about 50-60%...
I‘m a rank 1 survivor and I have days where I don’t escape, but it’s fine. I have games where I can loop the killer very long or just a nice team where 3 or 4 survivor escape. I have games against very good killer which destroy the whole team in a few minutes... that’s fine too. Player just shouldn’t think they need to escape/4k always and that’s the point.
There’s no point in arguing with guys like this. He is an obvious heavy survivor main and he doesn’t properly understand both sides to the game.
@MadLordJack
The pick and kill rates in this stats include consoles too and there the nurse is very hard to play...
I like to talk about „why killer think 4k are needed always“ and please don’t focus on the stats.
A red rank survivor doesn’t pip for only doing gens and escape, you have to do a lot of more objects to earn emblems in all categories. Sure, pipping is harder for killer and I think that’s the unfair point.
@MenacingStoner
I play killer too, so I know both sides and the only issue in my eyes is the unfair matchmaking when a lower rank killer faces red rank survivors over and over again.
And swfs often kills themself cause they play altruistic, tank hits a or try to trigger the killer what mostly results with easy snowballing. In my opinion there are only a few very good and coordinated swfs...
Survivor doesn't pip yet they escape
ESCAPED
Killer only gets 2 kills, doesn't pip
ENTITY DISPLEASED
Its great if the Devs claim they want the game to be balanced around 2k 2 escape but the game needs to...you know....actually be balanced around 2k 2 escape.
A 2k isn't meant to be a win. It's meant to be a tie. That's the OP's point. The devs are trying to balance towards the games averaging out as tie games. Which raises the obvious point that the emblem system needs to be adjusted. That way a 2k gives the killer an actual tie. Or at least a 2k played under normal circumstances.
The game awards more points for hooking rather then kills...
But 6 hooks don't necessarily equal 2 kills
If this game wants to force killers around 2 kills that would end up hurting both sides. I tend to focus on hooks rather then kills, BBQ helps me with that. Killers will only search for the first 2 Survivors they see and make those two they kill... not fun for those survivors and it's just as bad for the killer IMO
and i merely said that the only reason why i am complaining is because the game treats a 2k as a clear loss.
a depip is not a tie after all, im happy with a Brutal Killer when i 2k thats not at all a problem - yet it doesnt happen a whole lot.
and i havent really seen OP adress the emblem system flaws that lead to the mindset he obviously complains about. maybe i just missed it, but when i look at the headline of this discussion, it becomes rather obvious that he isnt complaining about the emblem system flaws, but rather the mindset of killers that results from those.
in the end, i just pointed out why many killers have this mindset. its not their fault, he cant blame them for seeing a 2k as a loss - that one is entirely on the game.
Can we stop using these outdated stats ?
As I read it at least that was what the OP was saying. That a 2k is meant to be a tie. No they didn't address the emblem system. At least not that I noticed. That was my addition to the thread. And one the needs to be addressed by the devs. Truth be told I'd scrap the emblem system entirely. And move to a system that simply counted hook states. But that's a separate issue.
But 2 hooking all survivors is a Black Pip
so where is the problem then?
i just pointed out that there is a difference between what a 2k is ment to be and what it actually is.
personally id like a mix between the current emblem system and the previous hook / kill counter.
that way, a 2k will be a safetypip, even with bad emblems (if enough hooks were achieved that game, so campers wont safetypip all the time), where as a 4k is a guaranteed pip.
for survivors i'd add something that detects whether they died or survived, so that those who actually made it out will at least safetypip.
thats how i'd like the emblem system to change, personally.
I think we're of the same mindset. We're just saying it differently.
If a killer is at or above 75%, thats 100% win rate, because pure 100% is near impossible to keep. 75% or above is only 4k or 3k. Poor killers.
confusion 100
xD
Game should not be punishing good play. Killer should be good and fast at chaseing a surv should be good at evading without lots of pallets. That is good and skillful play. Wich is not atm.
Theses stats mean nothing.
They took into account, rainbow matches
14, 8, 4, 10, as a red rank match. What else to say.
Sheesh. People are stereotyping HARD in this post.
@Mister_xD
Thats the point, the emblem system doesn’t reward killer for multiple hooks and 2k, although they play good. And that needs a change!
Another thread that uses the skewed results from even before the RUIN patch. *Slow clap*
@Dead_by_Gadfly How's the stat collection coming along
I think these people need some stats (stat)
Hmm, well that's true but I think it should be balanced around 50/50 at max rank. This can't be well achieved until they actually perfect matchmaking though
Im at about 75. Ill post some when i get back to tge house
Sweet
Well yes I agree people do need to get over losing as it's not only part of the whole gaming experience learning from your losses can help you get better in the future. My problem with your post is your excusing tone and saying things like crying killers are only asking for survivor nerfs when they don't get 4ks. Which only takes up a tiny minority of players. Plus the same is equally true to salty survivors who complain about how op something is instead of learning to play against it. Both sides have that and if you want people to agree with your opinion putting killer stop crying in your title completely insults half of the games players who play killer and are nice people and also makes you sound like a salty toxic survivor main when some of your points are actually valid. You need to way up both sides of the coin if you get what I'm saying.
Survivors in my opinion do still need some nerfs and changes here and there. That's how it's gonna be when survivors were ridiculously overpowered in the first place yes it's gonna take a lot of nerfs to make playing survivor harder but at the same time not making it too hard. Striking that balance hasn't happened yet. The game isn't fair at all. Gen rushing is still a major problem and to answer your earlier question when I do decide to play killer at rank 1 yeah most of the matches are against fully co coordinate 4 man swfs. And if you've ever played killer at rank 1 against that youd know it's the worst experience in the game. Not because I'm not good enough to play against them but because there is literally sometimes nothing you can do. Call people who slug or tunnel sweaty tryhards all you like if I could rely on a different tactic to get a four man after an exhausting match against a swf then slugging I would. But with hatch I can't. I'm not sacrificing all the hard work to let one get away from pure luck and no skill. That's why things like that happen. And believe me I know what it's like to be slugged and to slug. Both aren't fun but the game basically makes it required. Same with tunneling at times. We all hate being tunneled but if you're a killer with gens flying and you need to keep pressure on survivors and the only persons you see is the person just unhooked yeah tunneling as sucky as a move it is, it's actually quite viable in some situations and needed to keep up pressure and win. The game encourages this. Tbh I don't ever see these issues getting tackled despite the devs saying their gonna add a start game collapse sort of objective before gens which I think could help.
@DaFireSquirtle
Sure, the title is kind of trigger killers attention^^
But I think it’s worth to discuss the exception of the players, killer and survivor and it’s sure that we need some changes, nerfs and buffs or the emblem system to reward good games. Both sides have to understand and to accept that no side can escape or 4k every game, cause the game needs a balance which give both sides a fair chance.
And I know what it means to go against a red rank swf although I‘m just a purple/green rank killer and I can say I have some matches where I get 3 or 4k and in some matches I get destroyed by them. But there are a lot of very good killer (not me!!) who still 4k this teams, so it’s possible and if you lost this game, the next one is better. That’s the 50/50
2 kills is a loss btw, you'll depip most of the times. 3 kills can also be a "draw" (omegalul)
Personally I would love to see the stats for survivors. Mainly the amount of R1 survivors running DS. I bet it's greater than the amount of R1 killers that ran ruin before the nerf. But the devs won't show those numbers because then killers will demand they give it the ruin treatment. Which they won't.
what killers complain about this? Its almost always survs bitching lol
These stats are outdated and even back when they were first released the devs said not to take them seriously as there is many factors that go into them like hook suicides, afk players, hackers, etc
My problem is the devs have a habit of using paper stacks worth of data but constantly misrepresent what the data means. You can have forums, reddit, some of the best killers and survivors, streamers, all telling you exactly what is wrong and they'll find a way to use their "data" to say how they're wrong. How we're all wrong.
Here's the thing, if, as a killer, I only get 2 kills in a match, then it is 100% likely that I had to sweat my BALLS off to get 2 kills, while the survivors probably didn't have to at all. BHVR looked at their statistics, looked at there being 4 survivors, and decided THEMSELVES that 2 escapes 2 deaths is balanced. That doesn't mean it is. Guess what? If I get 2 kills as the killer, it's also close to 100% likely that I won't even pip.
Let's see some dates and sources for that data. OP sounds like a whiny survivor. Any good survivor knows how easy this game is against all but the best killers in the world while they are on god tier killers on one of the few balanced maps.
OP you sound like a chump. The hardcore fanbase is mostly playing at red ranks in this game. That is the data we need to see. Then we need to see whether it is all solo q's, duos or larger SWFS. Many times killers get 3/4k's that completely skew results for a number of reasons such as at low ranks, DCS, lopsided matches in terms of skill (which could involve 1 or 2 weak survivors) that bring the whole team down and excessive altruistic behavior that is risky from survivors because the rank and BP system greatly rewards it.
Okay, let's assume the old stats are still the same as before and that there are no issues that can skew a game's statistics i.e. hook suicides. How are you going to bring the average kill rate down to 50%?
The most obvious solution is to increase the speed gens get done at. You could even add a mechanic where the entity lends a helping tentacle to survivor teams who are getting stomped and starts repairing gens and breaking totems for them.
Except things like that wouldn't be healthy for the game at all. And any attempt to make survivor easier and killer harder when it's (generally) agreed already that killer takes more effort than survivor isn't going to help the platforms/regions where killers are already a rare breed. If you want a survivor game then you might want to queue up after waking up so you can play after work. Honestly everyone, devs + players should ditch the arbitrary 50% target and focus on ways that might actually improve the experience for both sides. Like console optimisation maybe? That road to 60 FPS sure is a long one.
So freddy, and spirit need buffs? Most other killers need buffs? No. You are clearly entitled.
If the game were truly meant to be balanced around 2 kills and 2 escape the pip requirements and the outcome of matches vs good survivors would correlate, and they don't. At red ranks a 2k is usually a black pip. Vs good survivors, you are lucky to get a 1k on the majority of the killer roster. Even if you are a good killer.
Now show me the same stats for red rank only.
Yes buff all killers. I seldom play killer so 90% of my games is as survivor. But I'm very good at it, pitty others won't learn the game instead of screaming for nerfs. Such losers.
The thing is, the game is very badly balanced, and in most games either the killer kills 4 people or 4 survivors escape (or 3 because of hatch/camping). If the killer gets a kill early, taking care of only 3 survivors is very easy, that's why tunneling is so powerful and grants the killer an easy 4k. The case where where two survivors escape and two get sacrificed is very rare, at least from my experience.
Not when good players are getting punished for players that shouldnt be at that level. They can buff weak killers and nerf strong ones, AFTER they fix survivor ranking.
I think in theory, yes, a 2k is where the balance/estimated kill count should lie. However, if I get a 2k, I either depip or safety pip. I can almost never gain rank off a 2k unless I am guaranteed a 4k and only lose it to hatch/pity escapes. Due to the ranking system,. A 2k simply does not allow for a good killer to progress while a survivor will easily pip off worse gameplay. From past experience, purple (and some red) rank survivors are much worse than their same rank killers because of it.
@trevorj91
That‘s true, killer on purple ranks play mostly better than survivors on the same rank cause the change for the emblem systems was harder for killer than for survivors and so we see a lot of boosted survivors... Same on red ranks.
A balance of 2/2 is needed so every player have a chance, but it’s important to not punish killer for this results.
I agree with you on 50/50 with some 75/25 both ways with skill. That said they need to balance around high end not low end people. The people who play 50 hours a week not joe blow who plays maybe 5
Actually, at red ranks all you need to do to pip is a gen, a totem, a safe unhook, a heal, and a decent chase time (1minute +, all total). On top of that, as I admittedly didn't clarify, if morons didn't rank up then the average kill rates would be around 1-2. Why? Because the game is balanced around having 1 brainless moron in each match that is basically a handicap that sometimes does gens and wastes the killers time by being carried to a hook. It doesn't feel good to play a game where you are basically bullying noobs, and it doesn't feel good to lose because the team didn't have any. When a killer is matched against a team of relatively equal skill, they're completely screwed. All survivors need to do is focus on generators and playing safe, and the killer can do nothing to stop them unless they got an extremely favourable setup.
I don't think that anyone wants killers to only ever 4k. I have never seen anyone claiming that they want killers to 4k every game. But the game doesn't reward killers for getting anything less than a 3k (in red ranks you basically need a 4k to pip). And worst of all, the Devs worship the stats that you already said to ignore, thus attempting to force them to read everything as their sainted 2/2, even though they deliberately flooded high ranks with even more terrible players (such as myself) and have essentially balanced DBD around idiots, making the true power of the ever-hated SWF being the ability to not have a moron throwing your match.
i play both sides and yea 2k don't feel like a tie or a win but it better then 0k.
I think the biggest problem with the matchmaking is the fact that the game expects you to get 4Ks. depending on which killer you're playing, if you're playing lesion and you get 2Ks but you played very well you're going to get a pip at least. But if you're playing ghostface, even if you 4K that's not even guaranteed you're going to get a pip. Most killers just don't want to be penalized, or punished for playing well and as a result we now have to either get a 4K or just safety. If I play well I expect a pip or be safe in my position, but the higher rank you go to harder that becomes because the game is balanced around good killers getting 4Ks not 2Ks. I don't think it should stay like this.
I don't give a ######### about the current stats.
I won't listen to jack ######### about intended kill averages until the ranked system for killers represents that.
If I 4k but I did it too quickly or too slowly, I neutral pip.
If I 3k with 4th escaping out hatch, and I never got to hook 4th? I depip.
Get that fixed, then we can have a conversation about changing killers to get x kills on average
Another thread about attacking a certain side.
I agree, and I guarantee the perks stat the 4 highest and most used are ds, unbreakable, Dead hard, and Barrowed time
They will never release actual survivor stats because it will show the blatant disparity in SWF and how survivors are in the power role especially in red ranks. If they ever release Red Rank SWF and Red Rank SWF escape % it will be a happy day.