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Where is Slenderman? 😪
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Fun is subjective of course, but if we would ask every player in DBD and make a poll, Wesker would come out on top. So many Wesker mains and most survivors like him. If not Wesker, Demogorgon, or Blight would take the cake. Billy might be the most fun killer to play against, but there are not that many Billy mains out there anymore.
Most unfun would go without a doubt to The Twins. Nobody likes to play them (lowest pick rate) and survivors vote them for top 3 most disliked killer all the time.
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I like the Pig, on both sides. Overall she is in a fine spot. Most people think Pig is trash but often forget that she has the best basekit slowdown in the game. If they want to buff her stealth and her ambush, she has to receive a nerf in that regard.
Out of curiousity: If you mained The Pig, what do you think about Chucky? He is kinda like her, but on steroids. Minus the slowdown of course.
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@ryokoryu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604933#Comment_3604933
Also you clearly did not read the entire post or you would have understood that even when he was right on top of me the lullaby was as if he was at max range for it to be audible. This forum is full of people that don't read fully and assume they are talking to a day 1 new player coming into contact with a killer ability or perk for the first time. it's like when I posted about survivor blood trails just stopping when they have no perks to stop their blood mid chase with no followable trail leading off. Why is it hard to fully read when answering?
Xernoton tried to give you a decent answer, even with a link and you treat him like that? Dont expect help in the future.
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Why would you put your controler in the freezer? Whats the point?
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@Krazzik said:
For killers to do be effective, they basically need to either be good in chase, which usually means having some form of antiloop, or they need to have some kind of built-in slowdown, usually in the form of a secondary objective.
With all the complaints about 'unfun killers', I'm curious what survivors like in their killers. Do you prefer going against killers who can end chases faster, or killers that can slow the game down basekit?
Or can you think of other kinds of kits that wouldn't require one or the other?
Neither. In fact the ideal killer according to polls are those who can zoom or teleport around the map. Many fair chases.
Oni, Hillbilly, Blight, Demogorgon and to some degree Wesker.
Their kit enables tons of chases and all those 1v1 scenarios are fair. I have never thought "this Billy won the chase because he has this and that". I missplayed.
You may ask "But Demogorgon does not, so why is he fun and Alien is not". Because Demo has counterplay and survivors dont run into loose/loose situations with windows and pallets all the time when played correctly.
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Maybe it would need some small penaltiy like 70 or 80% healing speed. But that is finetuning.
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BHVR Headquarters:
"Instead of a proper matchmaking lets implement that P100 killers have to play on Badham all the time"
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604064#Comment_3604064
Open their lockers.
I believe it pulls them out.
I tried multible times, it did not work.
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I am am very fair and in general friendly killer, but if someone is abusing exploits or using cheats, they are going to stay on the floor for the rest of the match.
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@Crowman said:
I only play soloq and I certainly escape more than 5-20% of the games. SoloQ isn't some queue that makes it impossible to win.
Of course it is not impossible to escape as a solo survivor, but if ANYONE is entiteled to complain in DBD at this point, it certaintly are solo survivors. But hey, lets focus on killer more, you know, 60% killrate is not enough.
Nerf WoO!
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I cant agree more with this. Since i had a break for over 2 years, it was mindblowing for me how crazy the game shifted in terms of ballance. Killer became buff after buff and survivor and maps got nerfed significantly.
During that killer buff rampage by BHVR, they might have completly forgotten, that solo survivors exist and survivor nerfs hit them the hardest. A little bit of love for solo players would not be a terrible thing.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604229#Comment_3604229
If the only thing this perk does is let solo players know which pallets their teammates have dropped, then people can use Any Means Necessary instead… because that’s the actual perk that tells a survivor which pallets have been used.
Which will be exactly the next perk that has to receive a nerf after WoO, at least according to killer mains. Survivors will just switch to that one instead. The point is, with nerfing WoO they would hurt solos and not SWF.
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@bloodyknife said:
Wallhacks of opportunity lets give these guys a yellow arrow with dark outlines so they can easily go to the nearest pallet. NO! Nerf this perk its been meta and OP for far too long.
The only thing this perk does is to let solo players know which pallets their teammates have droped. A good player knows all the pallet spawns anyway.
Also, think further. Lets say this perk gives mediocre players the opportunity to became good players (in terms of wins). Now imagine they will nerf this perk so those players wont run it anymore. That would bump killrates up even higher as they already are and this, suprise suprise will lead to killer nerfs.
Be careful with what you wish.
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When i play with some friends, they often run Calm and Distortion for a very simple reason: They dont like to get found first and then tunneled out of the game.
You say this creates non interactive scenarios, but killer first hand started this by tunneling. So survivors start to adapt, especially those who are not familiar with chase. Cause and effect.
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Friends till the end: It is actually a great anti tunnel perk when you think about it. It motivates the killer to go for other survivors and spread hooks. It is a strong perk, no doubt and it might need some tweaks. For now i like it how it is. Better a anti tunnel perk that is strong then another meh perk that does not change anything.
Ultimate Weapon: Personally I dont have a problem with this perk. Chase me, dear killer! Thats all i want from the game. But i can see why many people think it is a busted perk, because the effect for the effort it takes to get it is extremly strong. And it completly removes a for some beloved aspect of the game: Stealth.
Solo players: Yep, cant deny that. Solo players have the by far hardest game. I dont know if base kit Kindred would do the job, since the HUD should actually tell everything whats going on and what to do. I have no good solution to that problem. In the end we have to accept that we play "hard mode".
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603808#Comment_3603808
Have u ever seen how this guy plays? He tunnels and camp every game if you play dirty ofc you win on killer. News flash not every killer player tunnels at 5 gens some of them understand that this is a video game and not play every match like their life depends on it.
But those who go for streaks might play dirty and/or very effective. Both Survivor and Killer.
Your argument only underlines that if the killer wants to, he is always in charge and survivors cant deal with that. Imagine every player would play dirty. Winrate for killers go straight up to 90% 😁
Sidenote: There are other Nurse/Blight players who have hundreds of wins without playing extremly dirty.
Anyway, Blight&Nurse are to powerful and this is a pretty standard argument with low amount of poeple disagree. If you want to believe those killers are ballanced, thats up to you, but not reality. Thank you.
Kind regards
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603785#Comment_3603785
Yeah it's 2 killers out of 30 and not everyone plays nurse and blight I go against these two 3 or 4 times a week it's not like you seem them every match. Are there 1000 win steak on the low tier killers? Ofc not cuz they are weak and it's not possible. So take a chill pill and relax.
I dont know all streaks of course, but even the absolut bottom tier killer have high win streaks. Much higher then solo survivor and probably higher then the best Team. Even Pig, for many one if not the worst has high win streaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4leZmbxjS8&t=The point is: You claim Nurse and Blight are healthy for the game, when they are absolutly not. Dont get me wrong, Blight is one of my favourite killers, but even i understand that overpowered =/= healthy. You can clearly deal with strong team with any killer.
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603766#Comment_3603766
Hit me up when a trapper get 1000 win streak and I'll take everything back.
I assume you realised your logic is out of the window - with the lack of arguments.
I am currently at above 30 wins in a row with Trapper. Who knows, maybe in a few years i come back to you 😘
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603766#Comment_3603766
Have you actually seen any of the gameplay from that “streak”?
If you watch the way he plays, it’s very unimpressive. I wouldn’t even call it a “blight” streak.
I actually have and he is not using Hug Techs a lot, so i guess you refere to that. The only thing we learn from that is that Techs are not needed for Blight to dominate.
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603766#Comment_3603766
Are all the blight players getting 1000 win steak every game? No it's just one guy and that dude is no1 player in the world so yeah balanced.
And no#1 survivor player in the world is getting only lousy 38 escapes. And number #1 survivor team in the world is only getting 208 escapes. Compared to number#1 Blight/Nurse with over 1000.
And there are other Blight players with close to 1000 wins.
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603428#Comment_3603428
Blight is 1 out of 30 killers that is pretty balanced.
You think 1000 wins in a row is ballanced? When solo streak is less then 40 and the best team in the world is at 208?
Interesting!
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I speak for myself why i dislike tunneling and why i dont like the tunneling gens argument:
- The game is not ballanced around a 3v1. It is an easy way for the killer to get a safe win in the early game. It is the way of say "I dont care about anybody else but myself". I dislike this attitude.
- I have zero respect for killer who are that bad that they have to tunnel. I am not a great killer and i never tunnel and still win most of the time. If i can do it with any killer, you can to. Get better, sorry.
- There is no other way but to press M1 on a gen. Dull Totems and Chest are a complete waste of time. It is like a killer would deliberatly stay in the corner of the map for the first 60 seconds of a match.
- The killer on the other hand has a choice to play a good and fun game, or he can choose to play dirty and go for the easy win. Again, respect for killer who wont tunnel, no respect for those who tunnel.
Said that, i also dislike a lot about survivor players and i have no respect for them either if they come in with map offering, 3 Toolboxes with BNP on Garden of Joy or any other map that is good for survivor. And then rush the gens, get doors open and Tbag like a bunch of kids at the exit gate.
When my teammates are pulling stuff like that off, i always side with the killer in the endgame chat if there is a conversation.
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602254#Comment_3602254
Blight and Nurse are healthy for the game since swfs dumpster most of the M1 killers so having 2 killers that can counter well coordinated teams is a must to ensure balance.
Solo survivor win streak: 38
SWF win streak: 208
Blight win streak: 1000+
Very healthy and totally ballanced.
The typical killer main entitelment, completly ignoring all the facts and moaning why not every game is an easy 4K. Sorry, but at this point those statements are just absurd.
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You actually nailed it already: If the killer is not able to put pressure on the survivor, they get the oportunity to do that on the killer. The nature of the game is designed that way.
And I don't unerstand how in a horror gae you are allowed as a victim to put pressure on the killers/villains/"the personne you are supposed to be scared off"
Because there would not be any game if that was not the case? Imagine survivors would die all the time it would be super frustrating for survivors and boring for the killer. DBD would not have survived more then 3 months.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Nurse is the obvious answer, but I kinda wanna say Artist or Singularity. They can get mad strong if you're good at them, and Artist is the single rarest killer these days, so they'll be less practiced, maybe not at all.
Artist yea maybe, but Singularity? For me personally it is one of the hardest killer to get good (and get value when played good).
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Tools of Torment: 2/10, Thalita and Renato are meh, Shelter woods is still a mess and Skull Merchant is a disaster. The rework made playing against her even less interesting. Playing as SM is the most Braindead thing in DBD.
End Transmission 6/10, Singularity is okayish, Toba Landing does not look and play very well, Gabriel brings some interesting perks.
Nicholas Cage 6/10, Opens a new door we never expected for upcoming licenses, perks are fun but overall its just a survivor. nothing super crazy.
Alien 4/10, Disapointing. The Alien is an iconic but frustrating killer, the map is aweful. Overall some interesting perks.
Stranger things return 7/10, Seeing the Demogorgon more often now is a blessing. On the other hand, the map is sub par at best. Still, big carry by Demogorgon.
Chucky: No rating yet. If they ballance him well, he might become be a decent and fun killer.
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I would rather love to see the junkyard, but yes, i am down.
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@bjorksnas said:
Nurse
assuming you start as a mid tier player, 50 hours on nurse is plenty to forget how to play dbd and learn just how to play nurse
I dont know, 50 hours seems to be a low amount of hours getting good with Nurse. But she might be a good contender.
@[Deleted User] said:
Skull Merchant. Every part of her kit essentially plays the game for you. You only have to learn basic M1 killer stuff. After that it boils down to deploying drones with the press of a button. There's no skill component to her kit.
Welp yea skull merchant, but to be fair, 50 minutes instead of hours is enough to win many games ;)
The thing is, she is just op right now and the nerf is probably not to far away.
The Oni especially is a great pick in my opinion.
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@GeneralV said:
A mix between the OG realms. Divide the map into 4 sections, each with their own lighting and structures, representing a different realm.
Lets say... upper right will be MacMillan:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WM4BGZOGW323/image.png
Upper left can be Autohaven:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q23GHLN8XCMF/image.png
Lower right - Coldwind:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AZHYHRDNSUAP/image.png
And finally, lower left can be Crotus Prenn:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7C8H3KKB3EEK/image.png
I think it would be an interesting map.
Please dont do this to me. Seeing those pictures remindes me of a time when the game actually had really cool style.
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Is this really happening? Someone complaining that the most hated killer in DBD history is not the survivor Auto-DC machine anymore?
If bait, that was good one.
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There are so many Blight addons that need a rework because of obviouse reasons.
Blighted Crow and Rat are very problematic, if not even more then AR & C33.
Compound 21 and Adrenaline Vile are both way to strong for just a single addon and dont forget the Iri addon that insta downs.
I hope they keep Blight in good shape because overall he is in my opinion a great killer and fun to play as and against. The good news is that even if they completly trash all his addons, he would still be awesome.
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The streets of Twin peaks, including RR, Roadhouse and Palmers.
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Any killer that has high mobility and uses its mobility during chase.
A werewolf comes to mind.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600230#Comment_3600230
Yeah, you're right.
Balance = 20 pallets with 1.5 m distance in between. God pallets one after another, connected to 2 god windows, that you can't go around, with the loops that you can't mindgame because of the short walls or rocks.
I see you.
The majority of maps come with 9-15 pallets, 30-50% beeing unsafe. 20 pallets with lots of god pallets is not common at all. The only map that comes to mind is The Game, and there the killer gets other advatages with super close gen spawns and indoor in general favours killer.
Topic: The map is overall garbage and the loops are indeed very weak. On top of that, main is overall also not that strong besided the entrence loop and there is no shack at all.
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@IamFran said:
If with Abs0lutly T4lented yo mean TrU3Ta1ent (I don't get why you don't put his true nickname) he is kinda bad considering the amount of hours he have played. There are other streamers with the same or less hours (albeit less famous) whose play multiple killers and are better than him.
And yes, maybe a survivor main with an amount of hourse is better than a killer with the same amount of hours, but as long as the killer know the basics, how to make mindgames and have a bit of game sense he only have to practice a bit with any new killer with the exception maybe of the more unique or hardest ones.
I am not using any more names since i got warned for name&shame. And i did not even called out a real person but rather a bot account.
Said that, there is a chance that i actually ment the person you called out.
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I just realised something that counters my own logic. Strange that i have not thought about that right away.
Survivors are playing against all killers and therefore have limited hours versus every single killer.
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@EldritchElise87 said:
"If you teammates can't last long or someone gets downed at trades"
there's your problem right there.
So you mean killers overall are to powerful in chases? I am confused, please explain.
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@egg_ said:
Did you consider learning pallet spawns & map layouts?
The most annoying thing about that perk is that it turns even bad survivor into ok-ish loopers because they just brainlessly follow the yellow path
That is not the main reason why people use that perk. Solo players often cant know what teammates are doing - including droping pallets. SWF can communicate that, Solo need a perk slot to compensate.
If anything, this perk should be Basekit for solos.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598842#Comment_3598842
I know you weren't asking me, but as a former console player, it's definitely the disparity between keyboard and controller. At least in my experience, the game is way easier to play on keyboard and mouse. A joystick just doesn't have the same accuracy that a mouse does.
It's not super noticable on non-ranged killers, but I find it far easier to actually look around with a mouse.
That is true for killers (1st person)
In comp, the majority agrees that playing survivor on controler is significantly better then M&K. Many top 1v1 players switched to Controler.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598611#Comment_3598611
A 62.5% kill rate would be the killers getting a 3k or 4k in roughly half their matches. In other words. Killers with a 50% win rate would need a 62.5% kill rate.
If it was a 50% kill rate on average every match would result in only 2 kills (not a win). Considering a killer needs 3k+ to win, in order for a killer to win every match, they'd need a 75% kill rate (which we obviously don't want). So to get an even ground of losing every match (50%) and winning every match (75%), you'd take the middle ground of 62.5%. This would put them at winning half their matches on average. Since the desired kill rate per BHVR is only 60%, this means that killers should be winning roughly half their matches but with an occasional extra loss on top of that since they are 2.5% short of it being a 50% win rate.
As for draws, there is no actual draw in dbd, as BHVR stated that survivors win or lose at an individual basis. It's a 1 killer vs 4 individuals game, not a killer team vs survivor team. If 1 survivor escapes and 3 survivors die, then the survivors had 1 winner and 3 losers. Draw requires both sides to neither win or lose which isn't possible with a 1 vs 4 individuals system. You either win or you lose. However, for MMR, BHVR does treat a 2 kill as neutral for MMR adjustments even though it's not actually a draw in reality.
If the killer is at 62,5% killrate, the killer wins on average a 50% of the games, draws like 20% and looses 30%. It is definitly extremly unballanced.
Trapper is at 50% killrate and is at 42% wins 15% draws 43% loss. Thats ballanced.
I dont know what else is there to say. You can look it up all here: https://nightlight.gg/
And yes, there is a draw. When the killer gets 2 kills, it is a draw. Everything else, whatever the survivors are doing, is totally irrelevant for the killer. Very simple concept.
But, for the last time:
0+1 Kill = Loss
2 Kill (the middle) = Draw
3+4 kill = Win
Sorry, i cant do this anymore and i dont know what is so hard to understand. Anyway. Lets leave it to that please.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598413#Comment_3598413
Which is precisely why it should go. PC players have far too many advantages against consoles.
I am not a console player so i am curious. Why is it, that consol players have a disadvantage?
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Interesting ones:
- 3 Gen: I hope for only some minor changes. 3 gen is a solid tactic and should still be effective.
- Billy: Could be good, I would love to see more Billys these days.
- Blight addons: Finally! Big nerfs incoming.
- Safe the best for last: I dont think it needs a big nerf. Like some said before, it is mainly good on M1 killers. The only thing i would change is that STBFL should not work around the hook.
- Sloppy: Remove that it looses progress after healing stop.
- Ultimate weapon: 1 Minute CD and it is still a good perk.
- DS: 5 seconds please. Helps out against tunneling killer. Will bring back slugging a bit, but that is still 10 times better then tunneling off the hook.
- The Twins: The overall most disliked killer in DBD finally gets touched. Great one!
Overall, this sounds better then expected.
I hope they dont forget about Mr. Kruger in the near future. He deserves some changes.
On top of that, where is the Skull Merchant Re-Rework? This killer is just painful.
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Currently i am doing only pub 1on1s and other games until this killer is rightfully nerfed. With the way he is right now, i would be shocked if that takes very long.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595607#Comment_3595607
Yeah and that's a fair point that the scare factor wears off, but that only makes it more important to have the innate killer bias.
How do you maintain player tension for survivors when players are no longer scared of the game? By maintaining a base line of reasonable threat. That baseline is the killer bias in kill rate.
You've said it yourself survivor play can be really boring. What makes it exciting to even play DBD is the threat of elimination. There is very little that's rewarding in survivor play without that innate threat of elimination.
As I've said before if there is nothing to fear from the killer why flee in the first place? At that point its no longer a survival horror its just a safe game of loopy chase which gets really dull and "same'y" really fast.
Why is it exciting to interact with the killer, because it matters to interact with the killer. It can be game ending to interact with the killer, the moment that interaction doesn't matter neither does the game.
I think you're underestimating the importance of this as to the very motivation for people to play. Annoying, frustrating, unfair people can call it all sorts of things after the fact. But why do they keep coming back even when its "annoying" etc, because there is an innate thrill and that thrill relies on the killer being dangerous.
That is what i tried to point out already in the recent post. There is no way the killer will become more scary because of more power. It has nothing to do with that.
Once the player reaches the point that the game wont be scary anymore, not even 100% killrate will change that. Have you ever seen a single person say "This killer has such a high winrate, i am scared to death!" No, its just annoying and frustrating but not more scary.
The thrill has nothing to do with how scary the killer is. The thrill comes from a chase, and this chase has to be ballanced. Sure, i give you that if the killer would be super easy, it wont help the game either, but a killer with a 50% winrate is not a joke and not to powerful.
We wont agree i suppose, but i think we both understand each others arguments by that point. Thats good enough for me.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595498#Comment_3595498
Sure both our views are subjective you don't have to agree with my point as I clearly don't agree with yours. That's not the purpose here.
You asked how is this balanced and is that fair? and I gave the answer it isn't but that is entirely ok in this asymmetric horror environment. Like that answer or not its a valid answer.
Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. Can't you see how the perception of survivor being the "power role" is detrimental to the theme of the game?
The whole premise of the game, even how its promoted by BHVR, is that of a horror/slasher experience being played out. Drawing heavily on the themes and characters of 80's-90's slasher film craze.
Now conceptually who is the "power role" in a slasher film? I'll give you a hint its not the survivors.
So my point again, the one you can't seem to fathom, is how much of a bias toward killer is too much that it undermines the survivor play experience?
A slight killer bias maintains the theme, makes playing survivor exciting and 1v1 is a counter to the 4v1 team nature of survivor. To achieve that thematic balance you would expect a slight killer bias in kill rate which is what we see.
You might see this as a problem or an affront to the fun but I say it checks all necessary boxes to emulate the kind of slasher flicks that DBD is trying to emulate and that is part of the fun.
All we say here at this point is very subjective again.
Should the game killer sided because of the theme. You say yes, i say no. Bottom line.
To answer your question: None
A reason why ballance is more important then having a theme "fullfilled" is simply the nature of the game and how it changes over time for most persons. When you start playing DBD, it can be very scary for survivors and the usual outcome of a match is that the killer gets you, until you get a grip on your role. After a few hours, the game looses its fright factor. It becomes a duel and less a horror experience. The duel makes the game good, not the scaryness. You had that in your first hours, so therefore, the theme is fullfilled by that point, and no killrate will ever change that.
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You can argue that there are a few matchups that are not ballanced, but look at the average. Its on pretty much exactly 50/50.
In a competetive game, no matter if we are talking about the very low or the very high skill level, 50% is ballanced. 2-3% is unpleasent but might be okay but definitly not 10%.
Is or should DBD be a super competetive game? Probably not, but i would argue that has nothing to do with that. Fairness can also be achieved in a less competetive game.
Anyway, i leave it by that.
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@katoptris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594578#Comment_3594578
If the killer want you out then Ds won't do anything.
Then lets try it out and make that change.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595290#Comment_3595290
Yes in terms of numerical measure sure, but we are talking about fairness and how much of a bias in outcome is unfair?
So if what is considered a win by the community is highly subjective, (as Peanits highlighted) then the measure of kill rate is what we have to go on to assess "fairness" numerically.
I still maintain that a slight killer bias in kill rate is not so unfair as to undermine the survivor player experience. In fact the excitement level of playing survivor, because lets face it the mechanics of survivor can be pretty dull, is contingent on there being tangible threat from the killer.
This state of effect is a precursor before you even consider player skill, given the theme of the game and perfectly acceptable for DBD.
I think that is a highly subjective POV there. It might be true that some considere a frightning killer that dominates most of the time exciting, but there are many who dont care about that at all and would argue a fair outcome of the match is what should be aimed for. Others cant stand if they even loose at all and are very biased towards that nonsense. So it is not really a very good argument unless a poll (which is impossible) clarifys that.
It is funny how the conversation has been changed. In the old past, survivors were often considered the power role and killers were complaining about that how unballanced the game for them is. Now, it is pretty clear that this has overall shifted and same people come with this argument, that the killer actually SHOULD be more powerful. A little bit hypocritical, dont you think?