wydyadoit
wydyadoit
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353301#Comment_3353301
There's not a single killer perk that provides Killer Instinct. Killer Instinct is solely related to killer powers except that Spirit gets hers via an addon instead of just being a basekit thing with her power.
killer powers, addons, and perks all vary in different ways that include killer instinct and aura reading. Some killers don’t have aura reading. Some killers don’t have killer instinct. Making it so that both are on one perk means you’ll be wasting a perk because the killer will always be able to find you after 3 procs.
meaning the perk would be useless compared to something like sole survivor or just hiding in a locker.
edit
because those tokens would be burnt so fast. 3 tokens - lethal pursuer, legion lethal rush, a third proc of anything you can name - im all ears, bitter murmur, rancor, etc.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
It would have been a positive to see something by now, not that I expected it. I have never seen so much backlash to anything they have done. This isn’t much of a game for casuals. They have a dedicated player base that should be addressed in situations such as this.
Obviously not?
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@HPhoenix said:
Posting it here to hear everyones opinion about the hot take I wrote on Twitter about a week or two ago.
-Distortion should also block Killer Instinct to make this perk a true stealth perk.
And after speaking to a few friends of mine over at Twitter, a good compensation is that the perk now takes 45 to 60 seconds to get a token back (was 30 seconds).
Let's keep it civil plz <3.
Dredge, spirit, doctor, clown, billy, and so many killer perks would basically destroy this new version you’ve came up with. You would lose the perk and it’d be an empty perk slot in less than 2 gens.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353259#Comment_3353259
Then take off DH, Lithe is more fun anyway (and SC is still garbage)
BUT I GOTTA HAVE MY DEADHARDS?!
😤
in all seriousness i dont own the rogue reporter lady. Though not because I don’t like her. I just don’t have the 45000 iridescent shards to get everything i currently want.
in r6 siege and for honor i have 200k+ in in-game currency. But in dbd it’s pretty hard to grind out.
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@VaporLion said:
I think Hex Totems are currently really bad and need some kind of rework or buff. Its not fun running them because once cleansed you have nothing to work with. So usually its better to just use perks that are permanently useable. A good example for that is Bamboozle instead of Hex: Crowd Control.
So my idea is to make that every time a survivor cleanses a Hex Totem they will be afflicted with the Exposed status effect for 60-ish seconds. It would create this situation where the killer at least can go like, you cleansed my hex, now youll pay for that. At that point i might consider running hex perks again.
And if that were to change there obviously has to be a rework for haunted ground.
It’s called hex: haunted grounds and is a spirit perk. It doesn’t do anything. Just as pointless as the hex totems themselves.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I think there is good number of Killers who are fun to play but not that much fun to play againts. Examples for me: Nemesis, Legion, Blight, Trapper.
Meyers and ghostface
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353273#Comment_3353273
Yeah, because typical Meg disconnects? Its even more funny :x
But no, I dont think so because she used cake offering.
some people just use offerings to have something show up.
but yeah. That’s the issue with this community. Too many people forget the goal of a trial is blood points, challenges, and emblems. Not getting 4 people through the gate.
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@CookieBaws said:
I was palying wesker with BW/NOED/HeadLock/SA. And i can't figure out wth i'm doing wrong. Regardles of what i do, i lose 2-3 gens before a single hook and the only way i got at least a kill was proxy and tunnel. I always pre-break doors, eat pallets etc. if needed, but there is so much wood to work with. I essentially need players who do mistakes and lucky tiles to get some kind of a fair play.
Well… that’s a terrible build for one.
noed is worthless if the gates are open. Blood warden is worthless if you can’t hook a survivor between the gates opening and the people running out. I have no clue what headlock is. If you mean deadlock then that’s a terrible perk on its own. And superior anatomy is worthless because you’re still giving up your chase advantage by using it unless you stack it with more vaulting speed - which you’ll never be able to vault pallets and you’re already defeating the purpose of the perk by opening walls.
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@Zachcjjj said:
yeah whatever happened to them they kinda just stopped spawning up there one day and idk if that was intentional or its just a bug
They wanted to add the mechanic where the generator makes the gallows drop. So no more hooks.
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@Archael said:
This Meg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GJJUSZN16D4O/no-bp.jpg
I was trying to do adept on killer i like the least, so i had to be mercilles.
There was two general bp offering and a cake, so Meg got +300% bp from this match, and yet... she dc on her last hook...
what was her rank? She has 4 perks from different survivors (kate, ash, david, and adam). All purple. Might not need BP and just wanted to roleplay meg.
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@Archael said:
Because its some serious bs.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZTNYWZQ7UYZL/adept-bs.jpg
I play her once in a while and i decided to get adept at last... But because someone decided to ds i lost this chance...
Why ds does not count as kill, even if it does in some places? Iri emblem means this last surv was killed. But 4k should means adept achivment, yet it does not.
Achievements are bugged for adept killers.
disconnecting, moris, having players bleed out, or performing special executions other than moris will prevent you from earning the challenge.
ive found that merciless with 4 hooked survivors is the most reliable way to earn merciless, but even still… hag has problems earning it.
edit
also - just use streamer mode. It hides usernames.
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@lv_grosetrufe said:
I want to buy pinhead or mastermind, but i dont know wich one is the most funny to play.
And i need feelings in games like its funny but weak or strong etc...
solving the puzzle makes pinhead come, but wesker takes 7 minutes for such a poor performance.
indeed.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=wrN7Uti6lqk&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fgaymingmag.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=68v5ilkqh_Q -
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353121#Comment_3353121
Just dont run Self-Care then! :)
But i thought the rule was if you don’t run self care you run circle of healing?
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353116#Comment_3353116
This is the second time you've said something along these lines. You must be a really fun person, with no issues whatsoever :)
At OP, I agree that you cannot force people to farm. Although sometimes it's not farming as a whole, but 1 survivor rather working with the killer to rat out their teammates and farm them, and they often end up getting hatch themselves. 😒
yeah. I dislike those players. Just play the game. Imagine being the player that gets hook farmed so killer and survivor duo can get challenges or complete an event.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
This isnt even a rant, I would just like to say how undervalued this perk is, whenever I run it as Survivor, I find it really helpful (plus it gives me a lot of Bloodpoints and makes me the Obsession) and I do not really see that many people run it.
I just had a match (as you can guess by the title), where a single For The People took away all the pressure I had as Killer and lead to a situation where there was nothing I could really do (the only remaining Generators had strong tiles that chained into one another, might I add).
So uh, yea, For The People is underrated, you should use it sometime.
But then I can’t run deadhard, lithe, adrenaline, and self care?
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@jamally093 said:
Stuff like NOED is basically an insta win on him because of it able to reel in survivors down them in one go and if it's because well he hits you with his weapon okay...so does Blight and so does Nurse to the point her blink attack is counted as a special attack. Also if oh well his power isn't really doing much but reeling survivors in okay Blight's power is just there for him to dash around he just hit survivors with it so his power isn't a waste of time. So shouldn't stuff like NOED not work on him if he's aiming or STBFL.
I agree. We should definitely buff legion.
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@HugTechLover said:
Yea.. if people bring BPS I try and let them maximize on their BP. Why are you complaining?
If I’m killer and someone brings blood point offerings i kill them first.
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@jamally093 said:
Basically had a match that went smoothly then a Nea went on hook so I went to go save her since that's what you should do unless the killer is camping which he wasn't. So I do so get chased and end up getting trapped since I forgot every Trapper ever traps windows and I end up in shack basement basically rest of the match I was on the hook which the Trapper didn't camp even if he got 2 hooks he never camped but they still left plus I think Trapper never rigged shack up so basically it was an all clear to rescue. I don't know just survivors get terrified when it comes to basement for some reason plus I don't know what happened but any time I face a Trapper all my team gets trapped and in obvious spots.
basement hooks are instant 4k’s against anything but a deadhard master
because there’s only 1 way in and 1 way out.
dredge territorial imperative is hilarious btw.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
Why does the killer grab downed survivors from their ass?
Belts make it easier to shoulder carry. Some people (david) might not have shirts, but everyone will have at least a pair of underwear… unless this game goes a bit lewd in the future.
the character models are different now than they were in the beginning, so the animations aren’t completely in synch, as such certain characters have their animations look goofy due to not having a unique skeleton.
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@ironblade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352860#Comment_3352860
Which addons would be used with Claustrophobia?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352864#Comment_3352864
Closing in but then it's more niche to a specific killer. Bubba would work but all things should be in your favor when that happens and pray that there isn't a nearby pallet to ruin your day.
The game has changed a lot since they dropped the stranger things license so demogorgon isnt getting the love he needs for the current meta, but used to be elvens soda, rotten green tripe, deer lung, and leprose lichen.
You combine it with tinkerer and go to town
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352894#Comment_3352894
I dunno, doesn't he use Adam in the book?
Monster's name aside, however, I guess it's because DBD is meant to be Slasher-inspired, not classic Horror. Hence we get the proto-Slasher Halloween, and stuff like Hellraiser getting in, but nothing from the classic Universal lineup (or the later Hammer variants). But given the inclusion of RE, Ring, and Stranger Things... eh.
Maybe it's just an attempt to avoid any monsters that wouldn't fit as permanent inhabitants of the "real world".
depends on which version of the book, but yeah. Anyway.
maybe, but i still think it’s just artist pride getting in the way.
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@arcticgirl36 said:
I wonder why arguably the most iconic monsters have not already made it to the realm of the Entity. Is there a judgement call the developers are making about their suitability for the game? Of course this can only be speculation, but what do you think?
Because plagiarism and artist pride prevent it.
most artists would rather create a likeness than a reproduction from my experience. I have taken several art courses as my degree minor was in digital media. Each class consisted of about 30-40 students. However, that’s still a small sample size so take it with a grain of salt as my own personal observation.
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@FridayNightPizza said:
Not to be that guy but Frankenstein was the dude who made the creature, in the book it doesn't actually have a name. But yeah there's a lot of untapped potential here with classic horror icons.
Actually - the monster’s name is frankenstein because it’s the “son” of the doctor and the doctor’s last name is frankenstein. The monster doesn’t have a first name, but it does have a last name.
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@ironblade said:
I don't know what to do with this perk. Does it have any use?
It was a demogorgon perk. It was useful because demo had tunnels and its addons allowed some interesting functions, but most killers cant use it. Freddy cant. Sadoka cant. Hillbilly can kinda if he was already headed there. The tinkerer+claustrophobia is usually beat out by other combos. Discordance for example provides plenty of info - especially when 3 genning.
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They can always update her look later and change her perks if it matters.
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@Archael said:
I may be seen as some greedy or poor or toxic, or whatever...
but
Perks are too essential to gameplay, maybe more than killer powers (tho this is debatable), and locking those in any way is unsportsmanlike pay to win, unfair behaviour.
Maybe im just old player used to b2p games, but buying advantage in the game is a thing i just dislike, and its a thing that lot of people dislike as soon as they will finds out this is p2w.
And dear Behaviour, people will still play the game, and still buy DLCs even if perks would be free to all. Yet game will look more fair from your part.
You can make custom look and discription to perks that are associated with specific DLC.
This may be seen like my personal opinion, but it is really a suggetion to think about.
They are free. For a price.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352795#Comment_3352795
All killers move at the same speed while carrying though
It's a completely standardised mechanic
While carrying sure, but the 3.8 movement means she struggles to catch a crawler using tenacity and flipflop.
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Yep. I think it has to do with the fact that I don’t run meta perks.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352341#Comment_3352341
You're the kind of player that inspired the title of this thread. If you think a few more BPs and the chance your emblems might be a different color for struggling on the 2nd hook is worth increasing the killer's chance to get 4k then go for it. Despite how you feel being a solo player you should know that you have NEVER escaped a match without the help of your team. You have never earned anything in this game as survivor that wasn't in some way aided by the help and support of other players you played with. THAT is why it is the right thing to do in situations like this. If survivors can't trust each other during the match then you're just making it that much easier for the killer to win.
Again - loaded words.
escaping will always be a byproduct of the actions of the match, but that doesn’t mean the other players were trying to ensure i escaped any more than i was trying to help them. There’s a reason why at one point locker camper bill and solo laurie existed. In a lot of ways they still do.
an unsafe hook used to cause players to be hook farmed as a way to prevent getting killed in a chase or the make the hatch spawn back when keys were a thing.
SWF isnt even immune to the “oops” survivor interactions.
escaping through the hatch is a byproduct of outliving the other survivors.
escaping through the gate is a byproduct of opening them. Which might require generators, but sometimes it just requires the hatch to be closed.
so while yes, survivor actions lead to escapes - the thought that good intentions are the cause of escapes (especially mine) is purely erroneous assumption. Most of my escapes are through hatch.
when i choose to escape through gate i tend to bring wakeup! in case hatch gets closed or if the team has toolboxes. Otherwise i work on gens, bait the killer, and avoid hook.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352786#Comment_3352786
How come?
What makes Nurse any different when it comes to carrying survs?
3.8 movement speed.
which means you can body block her pretty easily. But a lot of survivors don’t know that because they’re so afraid of starstruck.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352783#Comment_3352783
"Getting the same thing gets old fast"
Meanwhile 90% of games you get killed by the entity instead of the killers killing you lol
my games have varied endings when i play survivor. Idk why, but i tend to go the full spectrum of gate, hatch, hook, bleeding out, mori, egc death.
so idk.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350567#Comment_3350567
You don't need either iron grasp or monstrous shrine
Agitation is all you need
Nurse players might.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350565#Comment_3350565
I think that's just because those are meant to be quick, and therefore less interesting
However I do find it cool that if you have a tape it takes a little while longer for you to die of the heart attack than if you do not hold a tape
Yeah. I get that, but the question was about which are boring right?
Getting to see the mori from two different perspectives is pretty nice. Getting the same thing gets old fast. So yeah. Those are the winners.
and i didn’t know about the sadako tape one.
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Yep. The challenge is specifically referring to only the screams caused by hex: ftd.
which is simple to get. Just people can’t be bothered to read.
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@Mr_K said:
I'll be happy if they never touch Myers. Nothing good would come from it.
Agreed. We should keep meyers exactly the same. Maybe give him david’s chest cosmetic or make a female version called misty meyers.
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@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352556#Comment_3352556
When that was meant like that, well, then i voted wrong.😃
nah. you didn't know so your vote is accurate
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@Shroompy said:
Face the Darkness is a perk I regularly use on Dredge and got the challenge done within the first 2 minutes of the game. You could also just use it on a killer like Doctor and even if it gets cleansed youll still get screams if you really are that unlucky
Doctor’s screams wont work.
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@Decutor said:
Removing skill checks from self-care would be much welcome and it wouldn't affect the current state of the perk all that much.
With the perk taking 45s or 54s against mangled and thus becoming a boring action, removing the skill checks would reduce the negative impact on fun by allowing players to grab a cup of water, go to the bathroom or watch some YT shorts while they wait for the action to be completed.
…so you want one of the three universal interactions that causes skill checks to have the skill checks removed?
generators
self healing
healing others
…
then we’d be back to:
generators - technician
healing others - bite the bullet
—
making a small exception for hook skill checks and wiggle skill checks as they’re slightly different and do not fall under the same category and are unaffected by perks or powers.
sure.
but then we gotta buff/change everything built on the assumption that self healing has skill checks.
unnerving presence, clown phobia, autodidact, freddy’s skillcheck failure wakeup, bots that ignore skill checks, etc.
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@Veroles said:
I play everything at once mostly.
That would be a lone wolf build.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352392#Comment_3352392
What I mean is: just because you have a build meant for healing does not mean you'll only heal people. If you're not in a swf it might even be that you have a full healing build and don't get to heal a single person. It can be that even though you have a full gen jockey build equipped you don't get around to touching a single gen. And even if you position yourself as the tastiest bait... the killer may still completely ignore you. Just because you go into a match wanting to play a specific role with the specific build doesn't mean you automatically get to do it / can insist on doing that and only that. Well, you sure can - but you'd be actively sabotaging your team.
umm... right. well think of it this way: just because your role is irrelevant to the situation does that mean you're not that role?
i've been carried (and carried) through a dungeon where the healer was useless in an mmorpg before. i've also solo'd fights that were meant to be large scale team battles. the players who queued up thinking "dont worry guys. i've got a pretty great tank build" or "i'll handle the damage" yet the monsters are all getting 1 shotted by the overpowered healer doesn't negate the fact that the tank is a tank. the damage was damage.
likewise - in dbd you might bring a saboteur kit and your team is just all mechanics with god tier builds so no one even needed to be saved.
doesn't mean you should stop working on generators or never cleanse totems or open chests. it just means that you're not an optimum build for those things.
i hope that comparison makes sense
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352346#Comment_3352346
I don't, but I still leave in my own La la land dream where I am one.
lol. well at least you admit it. i won't shatter your dreams then. thanks for the carry in advance.
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@Halloulle said:
I do love my Distortion though. The other three perks usually revolve around healing (and/or unhooking) in some way.
Love Botany+Desperate and my default last slot is Leader. If the "lemme just hold this 3gen and not leave this area" kinda killer has happened a lot I usually also go for coh instead, set it up outside the three gen, sigh and begin the grind to break the three gen. If games have been all eFficiEncY! I go with Adrenaline - especially in SoloQ where healing up in end game can be difficult. No one Left Behind is fun. - And We'll Make It is a nice IN YOUR FACE when a killer is a real passionate back to hook Andy that wants to take advantage of one health state and BT just run out. WGLF is also fun.
Also, I don't think it's even possible to play as a fixed role in DBD (except for maybe dedicated sabo players). You just do whatever needs to be done and that you are able to do. - I just read it as "which survivor activity is your favourite in dbd".
you can be a fixed role. your perks are a build that determine what you're good at. you'll do gens more efficiently with gen based perks than if youre running lithe, mettle of man, deadhard, and boil over. some players run flex builds, but those builds are still going to have a goal in mind.
and of course some people prefer to do all-rounder builds. i would consider an all-rounder build to be a lonewolf build.
flex builds are builds that have 2-3 perks one thing and 1-2 perks another. like empathy+botany with deadhard and technician
but in some cases like with your distortion example - distortion adds to mechanic for being a healer. so in this case you're a stealth healer if running all healing perks. if you're running unhook and body blocker perks then you're a savior.
unhooking is a flex role where the action will differ depending on perks. like for example... slippery meat unhooks would be bait or lonewolf perks whereas deliverance might be a savior or bait build perk. breakdown might be a lonewolf, saboteur, or bait perk.
so... it just depends really.
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@Theme_Master said:
Analysis of why tunnelling is favoured by some killers.
So, I want to address the issue of tunnelling. While it doesn’t appear in everyone’s games, we certainly hear enough about it to know that it is negatively impacting a lot of people’s fun, which is very important for the health of DBD. For context, I started playing in June 2022, and have ~600 hours in the game (mainly killer). Hence, I am obviously no expert on DBD, yet I believe a thorough conceptual analysis of game mechanics, and how these mechanics are interpreted and understood by players is crucial to address the fun-degrading presence of tunnelling in DBD. I believe a more fun DBD for every player with reduced or very little tunnelling is possible and achievable.
The TL; DR below will take you straight to my conclusion.
Obvious points to get out of the way:
1) I don’t know if I really need to mention this, but I actively avoid tunnelling in my killer games. This is not a criticism of players that choose to tunnel, rather an investigation into why some killer players tunnel in some of their games and why they believe they need to or should tunnel. Let’s investigate the issue, not lampoon players.
2) Hook Camping is often closely related to, and often appears alongside tunnelling. For the sake of brevity and simplicity, this is an analysis only of tunnelling, with some mentions of camping.
So that we are all on the same page, Definitions:
- Tunnelling: Prioritising chasing, downing and hooking one particular survivor over the other three. Usually understood to be a focused effort to eliminate one particular survivor from the match quickly. DBD forum browsing can reveal many comments from users highlighting a further observation that tunnelling often involves foregoing easy chases/hits/downs against the other three survivors, in favour of focusing all offense on the chosen survivor to be tunnelled.
- Player experience: Simply put, how much fun someone has while playing a trial in DBD. While this involves different paths for the killer player and the survivors, I assume here that both sides can and often do simultaneously have a good and fun experience playing a trial (match). It is widely reported by DBD players, forum posts, content creators, etc. that tunnelling negatively impacts the player experience of DBD.
- Objectives: (I acknowledge there is some difficulty when talking about objectives as ‘winning’ is not clearly defined in DBD.) Objectives are what players contest/control/secure/manipulate in order to influence the overall course of the trial and/or to try and ‘win’ or to achieve their own main goal.
What are the Objectives in DBD?
My analysis involves these assumptions:
A) Survivors are the killer’s primary objective, and they chase, zone, hit, down, hook and mindgame/deceive survivors to influence the overall course of the trial and/or come closer to ‘winning.’
B) Ranging in spectrum from lone wolf to self-sacrifice for the team, the Survivor’s goal is usually escapes, and they repair/contest/blast mine/control their primary objective—generators and the exit-gate switch—to influence the trial and achieve their goal/win. Unhooking or saving survivors can become a high priority objective, but ultimately the generators must be completed and the exit gate switch(es) must be opened for survivors to achieve their goal of escape/escapes.
C) The hatch is understood to be a tiebreaker/game-ender mechanic that exists to avoid and curtail end of game stalling and frustration when too few Survivors are left in the trial.
D) Generators and the exit gate switches are the secondary objectives for killers that they seek to contest/regress/protect/trap/vomit-infect/control/patrol to give them more time in, and control of the trial.
E) All other objectives (hex totems, vaccines, Sadako tapes, Plague fountains, Franklin’s dropped items etc.) are considered to form a complex tertiary web whose priority has to be juggled with and considered against primary (and for killer primary + secondary) objectives throughout the game. For example, cleansing old Hex: Ruin doesn’t win you the game (i.e. open the exit gates), but not cleansing old Ruin may lead to you losing the game.
DBD, being a competitive/adversarial game (N.B. not competitive in the e-sports sense), is fun because players, in addition to and parallel with skill expression, get to contest and strategize around objectives. A trial has rich cooperative and confrontational player interaction, leading to a fun and engaging Player Experience.
The problem of Tunnelling:
With all of that established: why is Tunnelling a problem? Intuitively or through experience, it is not hard to understand that consistently being prioritised and chased by the killer without break or pause, and/or spending a lengthy amount of time on the hook when tunnelling is accompanied with hook camping is not fun and negatively impacts the player experience. This strips away the tunnelled (and perhaps hook camped) player’s ability to engage in the rich player interaction DBD has to offer, and blocks or impedes their participation in strategizing on the progress of the trial. Tunnelled players are even locked out of some of the core basic mechanics of DBD like healing or unhooking teammates if they are focused down and hooked back to back. Tunnelling creates an anti-fun experience for the survivor who is tunnelled, and it often flattens the strategic depth of the game for the other survivors, creating an anti-fun experience for the other survivors, as well as being vicariously anti-fun.
So why does tunnelling occur?
I argue that tunnelling occurs because of a combination of the actual state/distribution/accessibility of objectives, and some killer players’ understanding and perception of their control over objectives and their ability to secure objectives.
Consider that Survivors are objectives that can rescue/unsecure each other, and we naturally understand that the killer’s pursuit of securing their objectives becomes much easier as more survivors are eliminated and less are active who could rescue each other. Now whilst that is obvious, I want to highlight that there is a tension in the game here; based both on the design and the balance of the game, there is a massive swing in momentum and control of the trial toward the killer upon the first elimination of a Survivor. A huge part of DBD is managing the balance of objectives, and managing this balance becomes much more difficult for Survivors when the first of their team is eliminated. Based on how the game is now, (from my imperfect understanding), this is a huge turning point in the game, and there will always be an attraction for the killer towards the shortest path to the first kill/elimination.
There is nothing wrong with this attraction towards a swift elimination; we cannot try to shame someone for trying to win or influence the trial! Rather, it is the designers’/developers’ responsibility to ensure that this path to elimination is fun and involves strong player interaction, or more likely that this path is slowed and controlled through design and balance to reduce and contain its negative impacts on a fun player experience. There should be some mechanism(s) in place to counterbalance any negative impacts related to the allure of the killer pursuing a swift elimination.
The second point here relates to the location/distribution of objectives, and the scenario where an unhooked survivor finds themselves in-chase again and at risk of being tunnelled. From the killer’s perspective, when an unhook happens, two of their primary objectives are in one place. When the killer surveys the map and the distribution of objectives, being present or close to an unhook is likely to seem to be a very strong play. This compounds with the point above, meaning tunnelling and then staying close to the hook make a very strong strategy. My conclusion is that the elements of game design and balance should provide mechanisms to inject fun into this situation, or more likely to counterbalance against the negative impacts of this strategy or provide alternate strong choices for killers.
Whilst the game mechanically has these concrete incentives for tunnelling, we must also consider that the interpretations and understandings of killer players who choose to tunnel are not the same thing as these incentives. Many players, forum users, and content creators with vast experience do not believe tunnelling to be necessary or even to always be the strongest strategy. (I’m not saying there is a consensus, and skill range is a huge factor, with tunnelling being the go-to for comp play for example.) The question is then why would the killer give up their other options in order to tunnel and maybe even hook camp? Tunnelling is not a risk-free strategy; it can even be a game throwing choice at the wrong time or situation. If changes are made to DBD to reduce the frequency of tunnelling and its strength as a strategy, as they have been with base-kit BT and then its buff to duration for example, they still might not change anything if some killer players understand tunnelling to be either the strongest/safest/most reliable strategy.
In the face of a large map where the killer doesn’t know the location of the survivors and feels that they have a tenuous control on the generators, focusing on one objective, hooking it and thus knowing exactly where it is, and exactly where another objective will come to, and then eliminating that first objective from the game may seem like the safest or strongest play.
*** TL; DR ***
My ultimate conclusion here is that the motivation for tunnelling occurs on a spectrum between a single-minded desire to win and a lack of confidence or certainty about the current state of the trial. Very rarely do I believe that a player will be at either edge of this spectrum, but rather somewhere in between. Not only does DBD need fair yet strong protections in place to limit or counterbalance blatant tunnelling that creates an anti-fun experience for survivors, but the game also needs to include meaningful incentives that provide alternatives to tunnelling as both a strong strategy and a safe strategy. I’m not experienced in game design, so I won’t be putting forward any suggestions, rather I’ll just outline what I think is the problem.
i was hoping for a more concrete solution and better examples, but decent analysis. good work 👍🏻
i'll provide some examples that can be considered for a follow uo analysis if you desire.
rancor is a spirit perk that makes the obsession a primary target. while the obsession is alive they can provide info to their team. there are no downsides to removing the obsession this way.
altruism addicted survivors tend to be more harmful to their team than beneficial. these players will unhook a camped survivor knowing the killer has noed and body block while exposed. sometimes while kindred is active. this is something a killer can abuse if the killer notices it.
likewise there are survivors that engage in the chase willingly and have a fully decked out kit of runner perks. these survivors often run an exhaustion perk. some survivors fail to realize that an exhaustion perk puts a marker on your back to be tunnelled. because if you're left slive till egc you will probably escape. not to mention the synergy with ensuring the perk isn't able to recover by forcing the survivor to keep running.
and the same can be said for endurance perks like metal of man or hook and wiggle counters like break down and boil over.
a killer can see when you're carrying an item, but might not be able to tell if it's a rare or common item. also they can't tell if it's used up or not. these items can cause a killer to focus a survivor due to desiring to hinder a "mechanic" player or a "healer" player.
obsession perks can sometimes fall into the reason why a player might want to focus a player. as mentioned earlier - rancor, but also meyer's entire kit of perks is about avoiding a specific survivor. so it might seem as if meyers is tunnelling when in fact he's doing the opposite. object of obsession is also painting a target on your back.
the whole concept of tunneling and camping only rewards killers who are playing against unskilled survivors. skilled survivors see it, know what's happening and focus gens. unskilled survivors panic, begin to all chase the killer trying to divert its attention and ultimately provide an easy 2 for 1 chase while no gen progress is being made.
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@Bwsted said:
The good teammate.
but how do you know?
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@Dinan said:
it seems all my soloq teammates have the role "useless"
🤷🏻♂️ team comp issue.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351969#Comment_3351969
And you still think it should be you, which again tells me you only care about yourself and use your team as nothing more than a tool for your own benefit. You're not really doing a good job making a case for your argument here. You assume you deserve to be the 4th survivor no matter what. The ONLY thing you are doing in this situation is buying the killer more time to get the 4k all out of an entitlement mentality that you should be the only one who deserves a chance at the hatch no matter the situation. What if your team tried? What if you know the other survivor did their part and the situation reads clearly that you're not escaping? How does it benefit you to throw the entire team away for the sake of your own pride? And by the way, its never a "free hatch escape" as you put it. Its merely giving them a chance to escape when all else fails. I always give up when its me on the hook and there is only 1 other survivor left. I'm not so selfish to think I deserve to be the 4th survivor and that it should be me that gets to have the chance to escape. And you know what? It feels pretty good when they do get the hatch. It makes me feel like it wasn't in vain.
i'm a solo player. i don't care if the other survivors escape or not. they're playing their own survivor game. i'm queuing for me. my time is being spent to level my profile and grind my challenges.
im just playing the game. i never said you had to save me, but i'm not giving up my match for a stranger. it that stranger doesn't want to unhook me because they're too scared then fine 🤷🏻♂️ but i'm not going to stop fighting the entity.
those other players in my lobby ARE a tool. because unhooking then keeps pressure off of me and they might unhook me later or complete a gen while i'm being chased.
i've made a great case for my argument.
for starters this whole thing is just an opinion from you in the first place. so by simply saying i disagree with your opinion i've made a great argument as the facts do not matter at that point. it's an opinion.
but i've gone farther by treating this as a rogerian argument to explain that specific differing of opinion due to my views on the gameplay. which apparently isn't good enough? let's try a summary then.
first and foremost as i just stated this is your opinion. secondly the "team" concept falls apart when solo queued. third - given that a player gains emblems and bloodpoints the longer they're alive and those are the only form of progression in the game which continue to increase regardless of if you die or not why should a player give that up just because they might die? fourth, why should anyone let someone else escape instead of escaping themselves. fifth point - dying on hook doesn't guarantee the remaining survivor will even find the hatch before the killer because there is a huge delay between the death animation and the hatch spawning so you might be giving up on a game where the other survivor dies anyway - you even confirmed this by agreeing to it.
all 5 of these points are solid and you've yet to convince me otherwise.
the only actual rebuttals you've provided are "because it's the right thing to do", "i do it myself", "you'll die anyway", "it feels good to do", and "don't be selfish"
which are all terrible reasons. in fact the way i worded them and seeing them all-together like this it's almost like an indoctrination for a cult of followers that hook dive lol.
for the record it feels good earning those extra blood points for struggling and then getting unhooked even more. especially if i live long enough to do a gen, heal an injury, open a chest, cleanse a totem and especially escape instead. that's such a good feeling. way better than dying and spamming the continue button. because it's not like i sit around watching the last survivor try to find hatch. that's a swf thing.
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@Xendritch said:
When I first started playing and didn't know what I was doing I loved looting builds and turning basement into my own personal shop.
Since I guess around MMR being a thing I've played more seriously and just sit on gens nonstop every game since I don't mind and most people don't like doing gens.
I kinda miss my looting build thinking about it though back when it was actually night on coldwind and nobody really took the game seriously and there wasn't really a meta. Now I feel like I'd get flamed for it lmao.
i used to run a looter build for keys back when they mattered.
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@Aurelle said:
I tend to stay on my own, one of the reasons being the types teammates that I get paired up with. I'll go for hook saves if I see no one else going, but other than that I'll stay away from everyone and do gens, search chests or cleanse totems.
respectable. how do you feel about the new hud info?
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@Tjiani said:
I do not understand why tunneling and facecamping is not considered "taking the game hostage".. I paid for this game to actually be able to play.. Not to be tunneled out of every other match before I get to even touch a gen, or get facecamped the entire match , provide the killer with points while being beaten repeadetly on hook and get almost no BP for the "trouble".
I have very limited time to play between work and family-life and having to waste so much time on being held hostage on hook or being tunneled out of the game just to wait 5-10 mins for it to happen again is simply not acceptable. People are paying for a game they are being denied to play in way too many matches and I really don't understand this is considered a "valid strategy"? If it was only a match here and there I would be okay with it, but it's more common than not . I can't speak for the American servers, but on the EU servers, it's really really bad.
"We tunnel and camp cause we get genrushed".. No.. you tunnel and camp cause it's easy and the points makes it worth it. Almost every killer starts hardcore tunneling and facecamping at 5 gens.. before they even know what kind of team they are dealing with. I think there is a difference between camping and tunneling towards the end-game if you have a hard time keeping pressure, and I understand that it can be neccesary to keep the last gens from popping.. But if the team is down to 3 survivors after one gen the balance is no longer fair, especially in solo que.
Killers are always complaing about SWF, but it's the only option to counter the camping and tunneling.. I have been playing Solo Survivor my entire DBD career and I find myself playing killer more and more often to actually be able to play the game and for the first time I find myself searching online for SWF to play with, cause I get tired of people not doing gens while I get camped or loop the killer.. Is killing solo que entirely really the goal here DEVS? Cause it's beginning to look like it's where we are heading.
your understanding of what this game is seems flawed. the game is not about completing generators as survivors and winning by escaping.
that isn't dead by daylight. i'm sorry that you were misinformed or that upon purchase of the product you thought you were entitled to a free escape. or at least a chance to do anything other than die repeatedly as a survivor.
the reality of dead by daylight is that you paid for the opportunity to connect to an online environment where the objective is to TRY to survive against a human controlled killer in an arena called a trial while 3 other players do the same.
if you're dying constantly then you're succeeding in participating in the game. if you're escaping then you're participating in the game. if you're doing anything at all that relates to objectives, chases, or surviving then you're playing the game - especially if you die.
refusing to participate in normal gameplay means you're exploiting a glitch/bug intentionally, afk, or working with the killer as a survivor.
face camping, slugging, and tunneling are strategies for eliminating players systematically one at a time. it's not effective and the choice to do so shows a killer's lack of skill, but it is not something that interferes with the trial.
my recommendation is that if you feel like you're not surviving long enough to have fun then how about trying out the killer role instead?
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351488#Comment_3351488
It is a 4v1 team survival game. If you're only unhooking and healing your team for BPs instead of for the benefit of the team as a whole then your team can't trust you. I already told you that every single time I saved a survivor in this situation we both died. You're not going to get those last 2, 3 or 4 gens done with you being injured off the hook and half your team eliminated. Maybe if there is 1 gen left to do but even still its risky. If you can't read a situation well enough to see that and instead value a couple hundred BPs over doing what you can to help the last survivor then you're just using the rest of the team for your own benefit. You're not the star of the team. You're not the only one the killer is going after. In the situation I described the ONLY person benefiting for you struggling on the hook is the killer.
nah. it's just hypocritical. you're asking for a stranger to give you a free hatch escape out of the goodness of their hearts. never mind the fact that they might have been the only one doing anything which is why they're on the hook to begin with.
why not unhook the player and throw yourself at the killer if you feel like a sacrifice has to be made? just because you think it's hopeless doesn't mean it is.
you want one of you to escape then save the other player and go get put on hook. dont ask the player that's still fighting to win to give up. that's selfish and toxic defeatest behavior. might as well be a hook pogoer at that point.