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@Shaped said:
God I have an awesome idea how to fix this. Just bear with me.
What if timer stops when the killer is in the same match as hooked survivor?
Ooohhh no you can't mention that it gets abused by survivors because if you say the hook stops while the killer is near the hook and nit in a chase then survivors can come close enough to the hook that the killer would have to chase them but not so close that he gets an immediate hit. And if the timer stops then he would be forced to chase that survivor.
And this is considered by killer mains on this forum to be abusive and unfair
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@Afius said:
I think the bp increase idea for survivors would be a good addition. Seeing as how any other idea is shutdown without a discussion or debate.
But hiw does that address the main issue with camping? That it is incredibly boring being camped. You sit there doing nothing so you spent five minutes plus waiting in a lobby to play a game only to sit on a hook doing nothing beforewaiting again for a couple minutes to die.
Sthe other 3 get to play gen simulator for a couple minutes till you die which isn't fun either but mainly it's the one om the hook that needs addressing. How does a few extra points help this?
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501558#Comment_2501558
but that's the thing. You ask for killer mains opinons and you just shut anyone down with "kIlLeR iS eAsY" when it clearly is not. Otz is one of the best killers out there if not the best. Now as a killer main killer is not easy, but your probably just going to ignore this aren't you.
He was claiming that this game is incredibly easy for survivors.
just pointing out otz cause he's an easy example to illustrate that no the game is not survivor sided if it was then doing what it does wouldn't really be feasible with the consistency he does. He also plays survivor really well and you can see that as good as he is your not seeing massive 4 escapr streaks. He was also running against higher level survivors so no one could claim he was playing against noobies who don't know what they are doing.
I main survivor but even I don't have trouble getting 3 or 4ks regularly.
To be clear while I will say it's easier to win as a killer it's not extremely easy to win as a killer and it is certainly not impossible to win as a killer like he was claiming
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
Don't get hooked. Easy, can't camp if you don't have a hook.
Well that is one fix I suppose, but since they design killers to be faster than survivors and get faster if they don't catch them after a while I'd say that runs contrary to how the games currently designed. Becuase they want survivors to get caught
But I suppose equaling speeds running vaulting etc to address camping is sort of a solution. I wouldn't be for it but who knows. Killer mains thoughts?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501058#Comment_2501058
If you want, i can spam you with hundreds of screenshots like those. So most killers i face are bad? Isn´t that weird, that a such high amount of killers are... bad? Wouldn´t it be more plausible that survivors simply are OP? That the devs buffed solo survivors to a information level that almost equals SWF while taking everything away thats even decent at slowing down survivors?
A single survivor needs 80 seconds (or less) to complete a fresh gen. Survivors usually spawn next to a gen, while the killer spawns the furthest away. Killer needs aprox 30-40 seconds to cross the map. Now the RNG you mentioned kicks in. If the survivors spawned together, a gen will be completed before the killer even sees the first survivor (which is the best scenario for the killer). If they spawn separated, than 4 gens are at 50% completion rate (unless the survivors are really bad and hide in the corner of the map).
Now the killer finds the first survivor. 2 hitting a survivor who just runs in a straight line takes aprox 45 seconds (some killers have a slower movement speed). That doesn´t include pallets, windows or running in circles. Which means 3 gens are completed before the killer was able to hook said downed survivor (and 1 gen is at 50%). There isn´t really much coordination required. If you see a survivor point at the hook and watch how he either goes for the rescue or goes for a gen. Thats about all the coordination survivors need.
Whats the killer going to get in that situation? 2 maybe 3 more hooks before the gates are powered?
Oh man I hope you don't find otz on YouTube he has 50 win streaks you could check out for all your favorite killers. (A win being either 4k or 3k plus hatch) are you gonna be upset to find out how easy playing and winning with killers are
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@miketheratguy said:
Camping isn't unfair, it just really sucks to be the person on the receiving end. There are few things worse in this game than waiting for the combined 2-6 minutes (average) for a match only to get tunneled, hooked, and facecamped within the first thirty seconds. You just wasted a total of nearly ten minutes of your life for, what, half the price of a rusty toolbox? Just because another player decided that his or her victory was more important than your ability to play your game? Like I said: That ######### sucks.
I've said before that there should be a way to ease this removal of the player's agency. A small amount of bloodpoints, at least enough to cover the cost of a single bloodweb item. Maybe a slowly increasing amount so that the more you have to sit and not play, the more your removal from the match will be balanced out. I don't know, there are probably a dozen different ways that the misery of being the person who gets camped could be mitigated without directly interfering with the match itself. I know that the argument is "why should you be rewarded for getting caught" and I understand that, there's logic to that point. But this is a game that rewards the player for almost everything that happens in a match, and the goal would be to lessen frustration for the person who's being denied the enjoyment of their game without preventing the opposing side from enjoying theirs. I refuse to believe that there can't be a middle ground, it just seems that the company isn't interested in looking for one.
You could also just give the survivors something useful to do on the hook. A perk that let's you stun or blind killers who just hang around camping you. Seems like this wouldn't infringe on player agency or anything but I'm sure this would be somehow considered abuse by killer mains. It's there favorite thing to claim when discussing camping. Next to claiming camping shouldn't be fixed I mean
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501530#Comment_2501530
I did. But I wasn't referring to their comment I was referring to the solution mentioned in this thread which was abused.
I think his response to you still stands in that case
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501515#Comment_2501515
I wasn't talking to you
But it seems he was talking to you. I mean he quoted you and everything hiw did you not pick up on that?
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@Reinami said:
Come on now. You are telling me a killer "knew about the bug" so they took devour, burned the map offering and just KNEW that the totems would spawn in that exact spot/configuration AND that the devour would be lit on that exact totem spot?
You are being ridiculous.
Not saying it shouldn't be fixed, but don't start blaming people for things that are obviously not in their control.
Yah they could like the map bevuase it's awesome and haven't played it in a while becuase it was locked. And to be fair I think finding a killer without ruin is harder than one with so why not consider the possibility it's a coincidence
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
Just make all of the killer's actions slower within range of the hook... someone told me that the developers already tried this but I feel like it was not the case. After 10s of a survivor being on hook the killer has a choice of walking away or playing a much slower game
That would be considered abuse by killer mains on this forum because anything that would stop killers from winning while camping is considered abuse. Watch
Hey how about all gen speed is doubled if the killer is camping? Answer that's abuse thr killer would have to stop camping or they would lose.
What about stopping hook progression while camping the hook outside a chase? That's abuse becuase it would force killers to leave to chase a nearby survivor instead of camping.
You can try too, think of anything that would actually stop camping it would be considered abuse.
I mentioned a perk like borrowed time but in reverse so it protects the survivor doing the unhooks. Didnt even flesh out how it could work but it didn't matter becuase anything even close to that would stop bubbas impossible to stop chainsaw camp....and you guessed it thats abuse according to killer mains
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@KFChris18 said:
As it was already said, this was tried. Survivors abused this by staying just out of easy chase range, but close enough to stop the countdown. Facecamping is here to stay and with how common BT is, is effectively a losing strategy anyways. If a killer wants to facecamp, let em. They'll get one kill and next to no points.
Why was it abuse that killers would have to go for "hard" chases (whatever that means) as though anything less that an easy hit is abusive to killers somehow?
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2500971#Comment_2500971
Yeah, true. Granted, it would take some time to implement it, but if this new system takes even a little more into account then they can build on it. I'm worried they won't, but moving forward they ought to have even just a small team that focuses on MMR improvements throughout. I'd be all for that.
Unfortunately they don't look to be interested in developing it as they have been actively suppressing conversations about what the system in place is
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501156#Comment_2501156
No your explanation was totally correct, 100% did happen, and was very easily understood. He's just literally so blinded by this nonexistent enemy that he can't see any other possible solution.
I know EXACTLY what he's trying to say, he's just not capable of saying it.
Well i thought he explained his points quite well the were just easy to refute. If you believe yourself more articulate then please explain his point for him
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@PoweroSymbols3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501083#Comment_2501083
The killer was literally able to get zero kills because of this tactic, I'm not 100% certain on the specifications because I wasn't playing during that time, but I know it was irritating and completely abused,
From what I could remember, a survivor would stand a certain distance away from the killer, out of reach of his swing, but not enough for the timer to go down, and the other 2 survivors would just grind through gens, and the killer had to choose between this god tier survivor looping him AROUND the hook so the hooked survivor still wouldn't go down, or just sit there and watch him get no more than 1 hook, completely abused and I'm so glad it got removed
I think there are a couple problem with your points.
1 you seem to think camping is literally the only way to win, i have plenty of 4ks with 10 or 11 hooks, and I'm guessing someone who mains killer would do a far better job then me
2. Let look at your example a little closer. If you are chasing this God their survivor and can never catch them and the hooked survivor never dies then the other two can do gens and escape. However if there is no hook pause isn't it basically the same result?
The guy dies you go after the God tier never catching him and the other two do the gens. Unless your gonna say that you would stop chasing the God tier and go after the other two but you could just as easily do that woth the paused timer.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501089#Comment_2501089
Solo escape 5/10. Killer 5/10
OK you are perfectly balanced between the two
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@MashaLuxe said:
Ok this is not possible anymore, today I recommended my friends to not use their money to buy DBD and play with me, I can't go anymore with this new mmr, I have 1300 hours in game and when I go in solo q, my mates are 20 hours, WHY ? They escaped 3 times against killers with 20 hours ? gg but they can't play with me cause they just ruining gaes, this is not their fault they don't have game sens ans it's normal cuz they have 20 hours in game, but I can't I just can't, I accepted lot of issues in game I'm always playing but this is enough for me you just ruined your game with this new mmr (sorry if my sentences aren't that good, I'm not english speaker)
If you got your friends to join you could play with them and then your problem woukd be solved
Also seriously why do solos not try abd nake friends on this game so they don't have to be solos anymore.
It's easy play with someone good aff them as a friend get a bunch if friends so aatleast one or two are online when you are. That way you can play with competent people
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@TicTac said:
The problem with measuring chases is that a longer chase doesnt need to be better. There are many factors, which need to be considered:
The place: looping around an almost completed gen or an hooked person is not good
Ressources: if you use every good pallet at the start to get a long chase timer, everyone after that has shorter chases, even when they are more skilled
End of the chase: doesnt matter if the killer drops it or gets you, if you lead the killer to an objective and he interrupts that, it is a bad move. You could equip bond and run to other survivor and easily escape the chase.
But going to those good places is kind of the mark if a good survivor. True on good chase doesn't mean much but if your consistently running long chases then it doesn't really matter why your running 4he killer for a long time what matters is that you do
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@blankfaced said:
Does anyone take anyone seriously when they try to claim this game is killer sided? All that typing just to say "I'm bad at the game," yeeesh.
Hint: It isn't.
I'm curious when you play killer on average how many kills do you get and as a Survivor how many escapes?
Oh also do you play swf or solo?
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@PoweroSymbols3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497710#Comment_2497710
Abused before, never gonna be implemented, u give survivors an inch they take a mile
Want to explain what that abuse was?
But remeber i said
"When pressed about the abuse they say something along the lines of it forces a killer to leave the hook when they don't want to (you know stops them from camping)"
So make sure you don't word your answer something like the killer will be forced to leave the hook to chase a survivor when he woukd rather stay and cap
Becuase that woukd be proving my point
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@alaenyia said:
I have played this game for 3 and a half four years. It was fire when I started and ridiculously fun. There were all kinds of matches and you won some and you lost some. But in that time it has been a steady decline into an unfun, frustrating nightmare.
As a solo survivor main, I have gone from winning half the time to maybe 10%. It has become so ridiculously killer sided to "combat SWF" I guess, that it is nothing but a huge waste of time to even log in, wait 15 min for a match, spend 5 min in the match getting hard tunneled right back out, to start again. Every match is just camp/tunnel/slug rinse repeat. There is no pride in strategy, there is no variation in perks or technique, there is no fun. It is fast, lazy, cheap plays to end the match as soon as possible, most likely depipping the surv team. Not one thought is ever given to whether the people in the match came to play, killers could not care less.
Now the survivors. These people come in 2 classes. New players who are repeatedly downed, don't know where anything is, sandbag everyone because they don't know any better and never offhook because they are afraid and can't read the room. This type us frustrating but everyone starts somewhere.
But type number 2 are the hardcore, I'm gonna harass the killer with my flashlight and teabags, not doing gens or totems because they don't want to miss an opportunity to flashlight, farm offhooks and annoy literally everyone in the match. They don't work on any objectives, just run around baiting, moonwalking, probably are streaming, have 5k hours. If they are caught and killed they can not wait to tell the survivor who did all the gens that they are "hiding trash that did nothing all match". Then they can't compliment the killer that tunneled them out of the game hard enough, while attacking their fellow team mates. These people are exhausting.
then BHVR themselves have done nothing but nerf every survivor item, perk, offering etc. They have brought out enough aura perks, built-ins for killers and add-ons that killers can really just see you the entire match. They have introduced killers whose entire power is based on playing sweaty, and who then depend on camping and tunneling to even be competitive (looking at the Twins). I understand that 4way SWF are problematic and just run the match and leave and all around suck. I like trapper and a decent 4 man SWF is pretty much going to win. But BHVR should just change how many people can queue together. Because making the game unplayable for the 70% of players who are not playing killer or SWF are just over being annihilated every single match.
So everything about this once amazing, fun, exciting game has become a rotting cancer. I play nearly daily and for the last 6mos to a year have has very few days I did not log out due to frustration and anger. Especially because I can remember when this game was fun, for all the players, not just 4 man SWF.
I'm curious when you run into a decent player why don't you try and make friends with them? If you add enough friends, then you will have a couple to play with whenever you want to play.
Don't need to be able to communicate in matches or anything if you or they don't have mikes, so you won't be as good as a swf but ayleast you'll have good matches.
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Yah its kinda fun to play with and doesn't effect gameplay. Started making my friends characters look silly while waiting for a match to pas the time and see who could make the funniest looking ones
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@Schardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498506#Comment_2498506
Looking at it at a superficial level, yes, it did what it was supposed to do. If you're looking at it in detail it did more damage than good.
This mechanic make unhooking pretty much always save. There were no downsides to it. Either the killer left so you could unhook safely without any danger or the killer stayed there with getting looped by another survivor while the other 2 survivors could simply do gens without any harm.
It basically made everything safer for survivors and that's worse than having a killer camp 1 survivor out of the game. Why? Because a camping killer will automatically lose the game to any sort of half decent survivor. There's a trade-off to it. The killer gives up 60-70% of the survivors objective for 25% of his own objective.
There was no trade-off at all for the other mechanic.
There already are enough anti-tunnel options in the game. Namely Unbreakable, DS and BT.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against the idea of making camping less attractive to killers (which is really hard because camping already is really unattractive on a half decent MMR) but that was not a good solution.
Well they could also implement a couple perks to deal with camping if they wanted to, but I figured that would just pass off killers more on here do I didn't mention it. For example a reverse bt where your invulnerable within x meters if hooked survivor or a my favorite would be a perk that allows survivors on the hook to interfere with the killer if he camps, something that stuns/blinds the killer. Possibly a perk that charges up if the killer hangs around enough like Leon's flashback that explodes and let's you off the hook
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499519#Comment_2499519
Yeah, I admit it's quite complex, but the results ought to be very good for matchmaking, whilst also encouraging players to get out of their comfort zones.
This is the thing with SBMM: it needs to truely represent the skills of the player, and that can't be done on a simple escape/kill tally. It needs to take in various factors.
Ironically, the emblem system for those 4 categories is the perfect foundation for it! It's just that they've not capitalised on the idea.
Currently, I like the new SBMM system in terms of my experiences. However, if the datamined information is correct, I don't think "Skill-Based Match Making" is an accurate phrase to use. It's more of a simple league table, like football.
Also something to severely lower players who haven't quite got the fundamentals yet. For example if you fail skill checks regularly your gonna be kept in the low tiers till you get better at it
Edit this was in reference to their points in the category dealing with doing objectives. Obviously this has to be separate from the chase and other categories or people will abuse it
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@PhantomChimera said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499675#Comment_2499675
That's not why.
It is because the previous system was exploited and abused and by hiding it it helps eliminate that from happening.
If hiding allowed you to go up in rank maybe that's an indication that they need better checks for skill as opposed to just hiding the numbers all together
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@BabuDweet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499349#Comment_2499349
I've seen your other replies. You literally cannot comprehend camping and accept that sometimes it is needed.
So why would I wanna have a conversation with someone who's gonna throw their perspective on me but not understand mine at all?
You're clearly a hardcore survivor main which figures, cause you have major entitlement issues.
I'll not be responding to you again.
It's never needed. It's just a good way for the killer to win. There is no required camping. I think what you mean by needed is an instance where camping will give an easy win becuaee its so good.
But if you feel it's a need for some reason then good news everybody, if you implement my proposal your never going to "need" to camp again. Because camping will never br the beat strategy again. Isn't that great no more having to stand around waiting for the survivor to die you can actually play the game
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499404#Comment_2499404
If you’re facing a good, coordinated team - what else are you supposed to do? By the time you hook first survivor, at least two gens are done. Let’s say killer plays by survivor rulebook and goes as far away from hook as possible. During the time it takes to find and hook another survivor, another gen done. 3 gens done, 2 hooks. Since I’m not allowed to tunnel or camp, I have to go find one of the two survivors I haven’t hooked yet. Meanwhile, the two survivors that have already been hooked are happily working on gens because they know I can’t tunnel them. Those last two gens get done easily by the time I hook the other two survivors and then GG get t-bagged at the exit gates.
I realize that a majority of matches don’t go this way, but at higher ranks a lot of them do. Killers have to play scummy because it’s simple math - it takes far less time to complete 5 gens than it does to play “fair” and get three hooks on even one survivor without tunneling or camping
How long does it take you to chase a survivor if three of them can finish and find 2 gens
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Basing MMR on each of the four emblemic gradings for survivor team mates (i.e. an altruistic survivor may get paired up with similar players, or objective low scorer put with other low objective scorers, but it's about getting all 4 emblems as closer as possible.
For killer, it may have to be a bit more basoc as cpmparing killer emblems with survivor emblems could be tricky. Although, if they did, I would suggest:
• Lightbringer paired with Gatekeeper
• Evader paired with Chaser
• Unbroken paired with Devout
• Benevolent paired with Malicious
So, effectively, have an MMR scoring for each emblemic section and match with opponents closest to each MMR. That way, you'll work with not just similar skilled people, but also people who have a similar playstyle, so it encourages people to participate in all sections. Someone who solely does gens will get a low Benevolent score, and will be teamed with other gen people, so they'd need to branch out the skills.
Oh you want them to curate the teams as opposed to just a relative skill. I'm not gonna say that what your proposing wouldn't be better but I'm not sure they are capable of that. The devs I mean not humanity in general.
Start with something a little smaller of an improvement than there current mechanics
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499311#Comment_2499311
i'm not telling you what to do.
i'm just hoping there is enough of a consensus that BHVR finally decides to actively prevent camping, instead of attempt to discourage a completely valid, yet unejoyable, winning strategy.
Haha yah except I don't know if you noticed but killer mains seem to run into prevent any discussion about fixing camping.
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499430#Comment_2499430
So you understand the difference between sometimes and always. Therefore you should understand that a blanket statement like "Camping is good for killers" means that camping is ALWAYS good for killers. Which is false. Killers who say "camping is good" never say camping is always good. They say it is sometimes good, which is not the same as "camping is always good."
OK well let's clarify then it's a good strategy but there are examples when it's not optimal for example if you had 3 survivors wounded sitting 10 feet from you in a room with one door and no other 3xits staring at the wall, then the optimal play would be leave hook to down them. But it's still a good play to camp and wait for the guy to die then go after the three.
But im not really sure what point your trying to make or why that distinction between best possible move and just good move mattets becuase at the end of the day it's always boring for the camped survivor and making camping a bad strategy by changing the mechanics will fix that.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499434#Comment_2499434
Of course, I just do not believe it would be a healthy system if it were ever discovered. And given where we are at now, like.. I have never seen an mmr system datamined to be honest.
I don't follow why would it be unhealthy? Becuse it would promote survivors running long chases?
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@ThiccBudhha said:
The problem with escaping chase and all that is that you can escape by dropping a God pallet, or by the killer just dropping chase. Especially common with obsession related perks. Or just by running towards house of pain, most killers will instantly drop unless they are doing something weird like hunting for BBQ stacks. Heck, just using an exhaustion optimally will result in an escape.
And that is VERY likely the reason they do not consider it. It would be the easiest thing in the world to inflate. Same with the opposite, you just use every resource and purposely not break chase.
True but If you are consistantly able to escape quickly or run long chases I'd say that makes you a higher skilled player no?
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499386#Comment_2499386
So honest question.
Can you tell the difference between "Camping is always a good tactic," and "Camping is sometimes a good tactic?"
Furthermore, can you tell the difference between face camping the hook, and returning to the hook after some time?
You define camping as a killer literally ever returning to the hook. Which is just an incorrect definition
Sure if camping is always good then it is necessarily good sometimes and if it is good sometimes it may or may not be good all the time.
I think you may be treating the word good as optimal but it doesn't change things it's annoying to be camped.
As for if returning to the hook then leaving again is camping. The killer is not camping when he leaves the hook. If he returns later and then leaves again he is still not camping. If he returns and just stays there then he his camping. Not too complicated
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499323#Comment_2499323
Why do they do it? Because the vast majority of players in this game, are not good at the game. They are, likely, casual players. But you are physically incapable of discerning the difference in the argument that "some camping can be good" and "camping is good"
Is facecamping from the moment you hook good? No. It loses you the game. Is patrolling back to the hook 20-30 seconds after you've hooked someone and they still haven't been rescued good? Hell yes it can be. You can get a free chase from someone and advance a hook state simply because survivors were greedy and stuck gens instead of rescuing.
No. Killers aren't "admitting that camping is good as a strategy." They're telling you that on occasion it can be beneficial to return to the hook if survivors have waited forever to rescue someone. You treat every single form of "camping" as the same as facecamping a survivor from the moment they're hooked. Blanket statements don't work, and you're the prime example as why. If I said "Milk is good for you." But you thought all milk was drunk a gallon at a time, you'd say no it isn't. I'd say don't drink a gallon at a time.
I can tell the difference between camping is an effective strategy to win and its not an effective strategy. Just becuase it's effective doesn't mean there aren't other strategies available, just that they are much harder to do.
You seem to have trouble with me pointing out that it's effective and that many if not most killers seem to be willing to admit this. I'm not sure why you seem so intent on claiming it's absolute trash for killers to camp while then turning around and saying well except in the instances where I personally camp then it's not trash it's brilliant strategy. It doesn't matter if you think camping is somehow only effective when you do it, becuase it's effective other times killers do it...you k on becuase that's why they do it on the first place
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@BabuDweet said:
Camping is justified in certain situations.
I play both sides so I fully understand if from both perspectives,
Sometimes as killer I gotta do it here and there to help with pressure or secure a kill and as survivor I get face camped for running the killer and they throw the game but I don't get mad cause I understand it.
However, there are circumstances that camping and tunnelling is just beyond abused and quite frankly it's killers just wanting to play like #########.
That I don't get, it's really a dick move imo.
But seriously people have to learn to accept these things and move on. Go on to the next game and if it happens often or you can't learn to just not get bothered then turn the game off.
If something is designed poorly why not raise the issue and try and fix it? I mean i understand why plenty of killer mains try and derail the convo, because they have an interest in keeping camping as an easy win.
I'm curious do you take the same stance with other problems, for example should killers not mention unintended abuses or exploits, and just go on to the next game too?
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498896#Comment_2498896
There is LITERALLY, already an incentive for killers to not camp. It is called LOSING THE GAME. If YOU as a survivor are not doing gens and punishing the killer for camping the hook for his one kill a game, then YOU are the reason that the killer is rewarded for his bad play.
Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean the game should change to accommodate YOU.
I'm just gonna tell it to you straight. If your teammate is hooked and facecamped from hook to death, and you didn't do two gens in that time. It is YOUR fault. Every decent survivor in this game is FULLY capable of running a killer for AT LEAST one gen in the early game. Which means by the time the killer gets first down, moves to hook, hooks, and stands there. The team should have ALREADY done at least 2 gens. 3 are left. He facecamps, he auto loses and you all survive. 3 survive. One died. If this is not happening it is because YOU are messing up. YOU are the reason you are losing. Stop blaming facecamping killers for you not understanding how to counter them. Sit on a generator. Open the exit gate and LEAVE. If you're actually good at the game your mmr will take you past the killers who think facecamping the hook the entire time is a good strategy.
Funny most if the killers seem to admit how good camping is as a strategy, I realize you may think it's poor and doesn't result in wins, but if that's the case why do you think so many killers do it?
If it's not helping them win why do it? It's nit fun for the killer either or do you think they just do it to ruin someone else's fun?
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498880#Comment_2498880
Getting the killer to leave in a way that doesn't overly benefit the survivors and put the killer is a losing position no matter what is the issue. With the purposed system the killer is in a lose-lose. You want to remove camping from the killer, but what are you giving them to compensate for the loss of being able to use it? So far nothing, just punishing them.
You need to make the other action way more beneficial and essentially remove camping from having any potential benefit, something I don't believe is possible with the way DBD is fundamentally designed, hence needing to make a much larger change.
You have to chase 1 survivor, they have 2 other teammates. In your system the position the killer is in is basically "hey take this chase in the area I want with me having a head start, or stay there and we get free gen time." Its not a "steak on a plate". It a chase you don't take because they have too much distance or are next to a strong area, but you also can't not take it or they have all the time to do gens since the person on hook will essentially never die.
This also puts the hooked survivor in a situation where they could be camped indefinitely or until the game ends. You think camping is rough now imagine getting camped for 5 gens + gates. The killer potentially doesn't have a winning option and the survivor on hook is camped for longer. Pausing the timer is not the solution, we need a different one.
If you think other tweaks need to be made if the killers start loosing to much that's not really a problem the game is constantly buffing and nerfing everyone so remove camping and continue to adjust as needed. Although to hear a large number of killer mains camping isn't very good and only trash killers use it so if they are right then no need to adjust very much anyway. (Unless they are lieing about how good camping is)
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Oh and to be clear it's not fun for the other survivors either when the killer just sits there but it's no where near as bad as for the one on the hook
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498907#Comment_2498907
I play both sides and there is absolutely nothing wrong with camping. I do know that it sucks to be stuck on a hook til you die, but that's just how the game sometime.
There's no good reason to take the option to camp a hook from the killer, because it would make survivors (their opponent they are designed to kill) feel better.
The good reason is so that you don't get that sucks to be stuck on hook till you die that you mentioned. So the game isn't incredibly boring for 20 percent of the players in a match becuase they spend it unable to play.
I mean your argument is basically the same stupid thing survivor mains said about fixing Ds. There is no good reason to take away the option to abuse ds becuase it will make killers (their opponent who is trying to kill them) feel better
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498896#Comment_2498896
I don't like this bullshit that survivors want to force killers to have to play in a way that survivors want them to play.
I'm sure you wouldn't like it if killers started suggesting that gens get blocked if survivors worked on them for longer than 30 seconds at a time to prevent gens from getting done too fast.
Yah there are perks that do that. And they can run to gens to scare them off,
But to address your question I don't have a problem with killers asking for changes to things that are terrible to play with.
For example instant keys. As a Survivor it's great for me but I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for it to be changed so that keys take time to open. I also don't have a problem with the devs doing that.
See I can undwrstand how something is bad overall even though I use it for an advantage. Unfortunately as a killer main you can't seem to understand how incredibly boring it is to be stuck on a hook unable to do anything till your slowly die off and go look for a new match.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498880#Comment_2498880
There's no need to force the killer to leave the hook. The killer has every right to defend the hook from unhooks.
Survivors just need to do gens and attempt to force the killer to leave the hook. If they don't, then that is still okay.
Yes I know you don't want to lose your camping becuase you like doing it.
If it makes you feel better this wouldn't force killers to stop camping, the idea is to stop incentivising killers from camping making camping significantly less prevelent.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498746#Comment_2498746
They don't always end immediately, there's other factors like distance and where the killers camera is facing that determine how long before the chase is lost, pallets are just an easy example of how it can be lost very quickly. If they just run behind a rock and you follow them the chase won't end.
That still leaves the issue of being out of chase range to begin with or just not running till the killer heads your way but still pressuring the hook. Either they leave to follow you potentially giving a free save to a teammate and also giving you a head start in that new chase, or they stay and the hook timer is paused which is free gen time for others.
Its a little better than the old system, but its not good imo. I don't think there can be a solution by punishing the killer as those just open the door for abuse or the killer getting punished for what could be the right play at the time thus putting them in a lose-lose situation. I have yet to see a suggestion without one or both of these problems.
Solving camping would probably require fundamental changes in the core gameplay systems to make defending hooks not something the killer needs to do anymore. Not that I'm against that but its probably not happening.
Hate to break it to you but forcing the killer to leave is the entire point of addressing camping. And you can never fix it in a way that camping isn't the "right play" (I'm assuming you mean right as in good for the killer as an effective way to win) because the whole point is to make it so the killer is not able to use camping as an effective strategy because if it's not effective they will stop doing it.
Also I kinda like how some killers refer to a Survivor stopping what there doing and presenting themselves like a steak on a plate as somehow not to the killers advantage becuase they have to go chase them to down them instead of continuing to camp
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498506#Comment_2498506
The problem there is "in chase" is easy to cheese with the current chase system. To be in chase you need to be within a certain range, have LOS, and the survivor needs to be running. Then on top of that chase is really easy/quick to break. Just dropping a pallet and the killer breaking it will end chase a lot of the time for example.
So survivors could just stay out the chase range or duck in and out of LOS blockers but still be pressuring the killer with a potential hook save, thus abusing the system in a similar way as before, just from a little further away.
I'm pretty sure chases are a little harder to break for more than a second or two using those methods, i know my chases with survivors don't end the when they run behind an obstacles, so long as I keep chasing then I mean, which would mean that the timer would be only extended by a few seconds from the pallets at worst and there aren't going to be more than a couple pallets right next to the hook
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2498533#Comment_2498533
To be honest except the amount of pallets in the game map i don't care much for maps. I just play since I already stopped caring for kills rather than trying to get BP. Oh yes, and the multiple tl walls next to each other on macmillan's, i think.
Haha fair enough
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@Alphasoul05 said:
Camping is only unfair for bad survivors, against two killers with insta-downs, or new survivors who do not have access to BT/DS.
There is not a single thing anyone will ever do to prevent people from camping or tunneling. It's going to happen even if you punished them in more harsh ways. I'm also 100% against punishing camping because I do not think survivors should not be punished by killers who rarely camp because said survivors are playing greedy and I want to force a health state drop. Survivors do not need more things for free.
The whole "if you're good you don't need to tunnel/camp" is the exact argument you'd expect from someone who has never played killer against good survivors or ignores how that is as if I said "You don't need Exhaustion perks if you're good"
So the problem is that it doesn't matter how good or bad the killer is, becuase it's incredibly boring it is to be camped which is why camping needs to be addressed since there is nothing that can be done while being camped.
Also to address your point about not punishing the "good" killers for the actions of the "bad" killers, that's basically why most things get fixed. (Applys to bad survivors too)
Edit or just life in general, like speed limits or things like that
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@PanicSquid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497850#Comment_2497850
You say camping like its a one-size fits all statement, there are various sorts of camping that vary in how effective they are.
Type 1 is the traditional camp, where the killer just chills at the hook, generally this is a bad strategy for the killer, but it pays off if the survivors try to save the hooked person instead of working on generators and leaving.
Type 2 is the Proxy Camp. Where the killer is near enough to the hook so that they can threaten someone coming in for the unhook. Some killers can proxy camp from a long range, like Hag or Huntress, so this is a bit more general.
Type 3 is the strategic camp. This is where there is some external reason for camping. Such as: there are only 10 seconds until they die, or this is the Endgame Collapse, a survivor is looping the killer near the hook, or the killer hooked the survivor in the middle of a 3 gen.
You misubderstand me, or perhaps I haven't been clear I'm not saying that there aren't good times to use camping. Far from it I'm saying camping is a very good strategy. That'd why it's being used so much. I just want to remove camping as a viable strategy and you dont.
Edit although I can see another exception for after the collapse starts too, makes sense
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@dannyfrog87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497710#Comment_2497710
been over this time and time again .... it was implemented exactly what your asking oh yeah wait for it .... survivors abused it running round the hook lol. so it was removed.
If they run around the hook and the timer doesn't stop while the killer is chasing them then that wouldn't be a problem, unless I'm missing something?
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497823#Comment_2497823
Ah yes the five people on the forum against 60k players on steam alone a really good sample size to make a generalized point from 😂
Btw to the point I personally don't care. I break every wall available except the shut off room in the saloon.
Are you saying it's not balanced?
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@Schardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497710#Comment_2497710
Afaik BHVR already implemented that at some point. Survivors heavily abused this mechanic and BHVR removed it again. So, nope.
Yes and I've been told the abuse was 1they would run the killer near the hook. (Fixed by the except in a chase part) or 2 it forced killers to leave the hook when they would rather stay ie it made them stop camping as intended which most killer mains seem to think is a firm of abuse
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@Schardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497686#Comment_2497686
There already is a penalization besides "losing some points". It's losing the whole game and de-pipping/ranking/MMR-ing or whatever you want to call it nowadays.
That being said - Imo the whole hook mechanic is a flawed concept. Why? Because it's boring and thus really frustrating. There are 3 ways survivors spend their time in a match.
- on a gen/totem
- in chase
- on a hook/slugged
1 and 3 are extraordinarily boring and I think it's beyond frustrating to get hooked, not because of the "I lost the chase" aspect but because of the "I now have to wait/afk here for x amount of time until someone decides to unhook me".
That plus the queue times are probably the reason most survivors get super salty. The games action constantly gets stopped for survivors because of objectives and hooks and queue times which can all be categorized as (waiting times).
But hey, that's just my opinion...maybe other people think that sitting on gens and hooks is not boring af.
I think your missing parts of the game. For example leafing the killer away from your team and then hiding either by using perks or purposely making noise just to name one fun additional thing to do
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@Saga265 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497809#Comment_2497809
He is implying that they are being broken. Because he (OP) feels that “”tunnelling and camping”. To me that is holing the game hostage” and holding the game hostage IS breaking the rules. My argument is partially that, but also a judge of value: whether you like it or not.
What do you mean by “how”?
Killers don’t need to be forced to not desire to camp, since it is a bad strategy if you wish to get more than 1 kill against good survivors.
I would be opposed to that because there’s no need for such thing. As I stated before, camping will, most of the time, be detrimental for the killer if he wishes to get more than 1 kill.
As a survivor: with the new system you shouldn’t mind being camped since you’re going to last as much time as everyone else in the match if your teammates are doing gens. You can’t derank anymore, so why even mind? Just finish the game and go next.
Sorry so you are against implementing a change to make camping a losing strategy because you think it already is a losing strategy, if that's the case why not let it be changed since it's not going to effect anything in your view?
Also if you believe that camping is such a bad strategy that never works why do you believe that it's so prevalent? It pops up all over the place on these forums so its clearly happening quite a bit to others even if you don't happen to experience it personally?