tjt85
tjt85
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All of these themes are great. I especially love the bassline for the MiNA theme. Be cool if they could rework this one into a dedicated terror radius / chase theme for her (not that I'd ever be likely to hear it. I've yet to see this cosmetic out in the wild).
MiNA's theme comes pretty close to knocking my beloved Legion theme off the top spot as the best in the game.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065782#Comment_4065782
DBD penalties aren't harsh, unless you are quitting EVERY GAME. I had a very bad internet issue some months ago and didn't reached the 10 minute penalty even with many DCs. If someone is struggling with penalties, they aren't playing the game properly and just quitting every match. I don't think this kind of behavior should have any kind of complacency or approval.
Also, people always think on survivor when they talk about DC penalties removed, but are those same people prepared for killers disconecting if they don't get the map they want or if 2 or 3 gens get done in the first chase? Dcing after getting a pallet stun/flash save they didn't think they deserve? Dc'ing after missing a power? we won't have matches if games goes like this.
This game is already hell with the current DC penalties, making it less punishing will just make playing worse, specially for SoloQ.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065807#Comment_4065807
I agree. BHVR really needs to push those who don't like DBD but still play the game out (at least for a while).
Like, if you are not in mood for a match, why try playing? Why join a lobby, go into a match and then DC the instant thing go out of your way? We don't need these types of players. They can complete a lobby but they can't play, so its a play who just wastes everyone time.
I'm always do breaks so i'm not that stressed when i play the game. Some people should do it too.You can get a 15 minute penalty for DCing 3 times. Then it's necessary to play 20 games without disconnecting to remove one penalty point (at least that's how I understand it to work). The penalty doesn't decay with time spent away from the game, either. If I understand the system correctly, you could DC only 5 times in 100 games and still rack up a big penalty for it. So yeah, the system seems pretty harsh to me, especially for a game with the worst MMR system and balancing in the business. With all the frustrations and annoyances present in DBD, it's amazing to me how few DCs there actually are in practice.
But you are right, some people would be better off not playing this game. After the Survivor games I had yesterday, I should probably be one of them. I don't think BHVR are interested in making the role more enjoyable to average/casual Survivors any time soon. Plenty of things make SoloQ painful to play but a teammate who chooses to DC is not one of them to me (the bots are often a marked improvement over my lobbies, tbh. Heck, if I'm honest with myself the bots are also better at DBD than I am).
Ditto for my Killer games, the game at least still continues on with a bot. It's way better than having someone who completely ruins the game by not participating at all instead of refusing to do the decent thing and DCing.
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I feel like you could finish the sentence "I need to tunnel because…" in pretty much any era of DBD's history. Fast Track is just the latest excuse. I've see a few in play, but not so many that it would be worth changing up a play style (obviously this is just my experience. Maybe others see it in every game, I just know I certainly don't).
That said, Killers were tunnelling and slugging in all my Survivor games before Fast Track was changed. It's pretty much been the case since BHVR completely abandoned their anti-tunnel and anti-slugging changes. I think that moment basically removed any ambiguity around whether or not slugging and tunnelling are intended game play mechanics and made it clear that BHVR tacitly approve of them. Killers that tunnel and slug are playing the game as intended, debate over. I think this is why a Survivor is tunnelled out in every one of my Survivor games these days, and why slugging the entire squad is a lot more common than it was.
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I don't know why so many people are holding out hope for a decent match-making system. It will never happen.
Any MMR system worth its salt would have the people who play this game for a living waiting 30+ minutes to get into a trial with suitable opponents, so any real improvement won't make it past a PTB. Any positive change will be reverted just like the last time they tried to tighten match-making.
Now that most players are treating DBD like an e-sport, I also feel like the culture and playerbase of the game has shifted from casual to ultra competitive. The game is way too imbalanced for that sort of gaming culture so I don't think tinkering around with the MMR system is going to make much difference to the experience of most players (unless the most busted things in the game get some serious nerfs). I see nothing but sweaty games in the future for 1V4 because that's just how most players play DBD these days.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4066363#Comment_4066363
See when I tried an Insidious play I hung around getting ready to scare them off a middle map gen, only for a masked meg to crouch wall around the corner and pat my head.
She knew what I was up to
Honestly, a moment like that would make me laugh, so I'd call that a win in my book. But yeah, it's not going to work on everyone. You kind of have to accept that it will be a wasted perk slot more often than not.
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Insidious is actually a permanent fixture in my Chucky build and I'm usually able to get some decent value out of it. The other day I played a game on Midwich and hid just around the corner of that gen in the room near to the bottom of the stairs (the one that pretty much always spawns) and I was able to catch an injured Survivor out who was returning to finish it. I hope it gave them a scare because it certainly gave me a chuckle. In my experience, it honestly doesn't make a difference if he's stood there sniggering away to himself or not because by the time a Survivor realises you're there it's already too late.
Then again, I'm not playing seriously so my Chucky is probably not in top MMR, so I can afford to waste some time hiding out in bushes and around corners for a laugh. I don't care at all about winning or losing with Chucky.
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I think BHVR need to look again at DC penalties, tbh. I don't know why this game has the same harsh penalties as a serious e-sports title. DBD is not a game with ranks to protect that anybody actually cares about.
Matches are also typically very short, unlike a lot of other PVP games. I'd understand there being harsher penalties if the games lasted a long time and went multiple rounds with the same players, but they don't. And since BHVR are not doing anything about the things that frustrate players (like tunnelling/slugging/MMR mismatches), I don't think we need to add insult to injury by putting players who are not having a good time on the naughty step. Especially not since the go next update removed all the informal ways to tap out of an obviously hopeless match by removing the ability to attempt to self unhook on first hook.
It's true that Killers often have bad mismatches too, but at least they can go hide out in the basement and the game will be over and done in 5 minutes. If they DC, the game just ends. But Survivors often have to play out these terrible games and hope the Killer is generous enough to allow the hatch to spawn.
DC penalites should never exceed the average time of a Trial (say 15 minutes) and it should take longer to reach the maximum penalty.
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Even if the new map is "Survivor-sided", I don't think this is a bad thing anymore so long as the maps across the realms are reasonably balanced between an equal number of Survivor-sided and Killer-sided maps. Since map offerings got nerfed, nobody has to worry too much about being sent to a horrible map for their side.
But I'm not completely sure the new map is entirely Survivor-sided anyway, since it's functionally an indoor map with lots of playable filler pallets for Killers to play around. Stealth Killers and perks are also relatively strong on it, so having another map that's decent for stealth can't be a bad thing when so many of the other maps are so open.
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When you startle a crow it flies up into the air but it will always fly back down back to where it was originally. I know this because I've had crows fly up and return a couple of times when I've been healing behind a rock (obviously it's risky to do this, since it might give away your position if the Killer returns).
I don't know exactly how long crows take to fly back down but I think it's only a few seconds and the Survivor is likely still in the area. I use crows to track Survivors a fair amount.
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I played a game with him earlier on his new map and I enjoyed it. I will probably keep playing as him. That said, I'm not very good with this Killer, so the Survivors I went up against were definitely not in high MMR (But that's OK. Like I said I'm buns with Trickster, so they still had a reasonable chance to escape).
I still had 2 Survivors DC on me, though. I doubt the Trickster will ever be on anyone's favourite Killer to face list regardless of what BHVR do with him. He feels fairer to Survivors than the 115% iteration, at least. Although he'll always have limited counter play at certain loops, that's still an improvement, imo.
He felt pretty much like a buffed version of the original Trickster to me (I didn't like the previous iteration at all). If you do manage to hit your shots, he can get an injury with his blades incredibly quickly. I only got to use his Main Event once, but it was nice to be able to decide when to pop it (his OG Main Event always popped at the worst time).
The only thing I would say is that I think he should be able to pull up and put away his blades a tiny bit quicker. Sometimes I would pull up my blades but the Survivor would already be around a corner and out of sight before I could get a shot off. l felt like I had to close the gap a bit too much to be able to start using my power and that was a little too punishing for me.
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It's always interesting to see how popular certain Survivors are. Looks like the Feng supremacy is finally over, though she's obviously still hanging in there. From these numbers, it's easy to see why Sable, Feng and Kate get new cosmetics so often.
That said, I actually haven't seen that many Kates, Sables or Fengs in my recent Killer games. From my last 20 Killer games, Lara is the most popular individual Survivor (7 Laras Vs 4 Sables). I almost always see at least one Resident Evil character in my lobbies, too (partly why I don't want to see another chapter. I'm kinda tired of seeing these guys). I wonder if I see so many Laras because I'm on the UK/Ireland servers…
For the lack of cosmetics that Meg gets, you'd never know she was the fourth most popular original Survivor overall, at least according to these figures (I suspect they are similar to BHVR's own numbers). Perhaps Meg mains don't spend a lot on skins. But then all we seem to get from BHVR are sports related cosmetics or scraps from the table like the recolours that really should have been on the free track of the current rift. What have the devs got against us megheads?
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Since they didn't even bother to make portraits for Baermar and the other 3 members of The Legion, I very much doubt it.
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For me it's the time between End Transmission and All Things Wicked. I think that's mostly down to the fact that I started playing around that time, so the game was still new to me and I was deep into my obsession with DBD.
But it's also because the time period contains my favourite licensed chapters (Alien / Chucky), one of my favourite maps (Toba Landing) and one of the strongest original chapters of recent times (All Things Wicked).
I'm a big Sci-Fi fan, so I was really lucky to join the game at a time when a lot of the content was focused on that theme. Stranger Things also returned to the game in that year. It was a really solid year's worth of content.
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We can only hope so.
It would definitely make me player her more often if I got to hear that banger (I bought a Stanger Things t-shirt for my Meg partly so I could hear the DBD Stranger Things theme while queueing for a Trial).
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@Dem34888 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063745#Comment_4063745
I'm curious how people are feeling, because I've noticed this trend of burnout on killers for a long time, and now I see that it's just beginning to accumulate more and more and become public among content creators
My personal opinion is that you've already seen it, I believe MMR is the cause of all this. People have already stopped ignoring it because they're completely fed up with it
In addition to this, I would also prescribe a boost to certain maps that can intensify this feelingWhy do you think this just applies to Killer players? I'm a Survivor main and I'm more or less totally burned out on the role by this point. Killer mains are burned out because that's the side they're most invested in and the side they've played the most. It's less a comment on the current state of the game and more a reflection of their own personal headspace right now.
I didn't watch all the videos, but I did watch the CovoCava video because it does reference a recent video from Otz that I have watched. And I do actually agree with Otz, the game is in a much, much better state than it was (I first started playing about 3 years ago). Regardless of how I might personally feel about DBD, it's objectively true that big improvements have been made in the last few years.
In their video, CovoCava conveniently ignores the "BS" that Survivor players typically have to face, so here's a big ol' list of things in the game that I no longer have the patience for anymore:
- Being forced to play out games that have been lost in the first 4 minutes because the Killer went for an easy tunnel out.
- Killers slugging the entire team.
- Slugging for the 4K to deny hatch.
- Every new Killer having 2 or more powers, as well as being way too strong for the average SoloQ team to handle.
- Survivor perks being hobbled on release or nerfed because SWFs / more experienced Survivors can get too much value out of them.
- The only new Survivor item for years nerfed into uselessness a week after it was released.
- None of the changes from the 2 PTBs meant to address Survivor pain points being added to live servers (so no carrot, yet we still got the stick part of the equation with harsher DC penalties and go next prevention).
See, I can do it too. But I know these things don't bother everyone.
When I first started playing, I struggled through some of the worst Survivor games imaginable. I would put up with anything because I was still learning, the game felt fresh and fun to me and playing Survivor felt scary and thrilling. But that was a long time ago and I've run out of patience to deal with the stuff I personally find annoying. Nowadays I jump on a couple hours a week to play some casual Killer games and I only play Survivor during events. It helps that I'm less invested in my Killer games and I feel like I have more agency (so I get less irritated). I can still find some enjoyment from playing Killer but Survivor… Not so much.
Tl;DR - Some of us have played way too much DBD and we don't realise when we need to take a break sometimes. It's just player burnout. It's really as simple as that, imo.
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I think there are only two ways to play DBD - You either play completely casually, goofing around with silly builds and not caring at all about the outcome of a trial. Or you take the game very seriously and devote much of your free time to improving and learning all there is to know. Anywhere in between these two extremes is where you'll find the most dissatisfied players.
It's not really the kind of game that you can learn as you play. Of course you do learn some things, but there is a limit to how much you can learn by just playing. Eventually there comes a point where you kinda have to do the homework to improve further and (for me at least) the game begins to feel more like work and less like fun. Unfortunately for me, my preferred way to learn games is discovery through play. So I've reached the point in my DBD journey where if I wanted to get any better, I'd need to really knuckle down and put in the work. I honestly can't be bothered to put in the extra effort, but I also think I'm maybe a bit too competitive to fully embrace a casual mindset at this point.
And aside from familiarity with the basic first person viewpoint of playing Killer, there are not many transferable skills that you can bring from other types of games. DBD is its own unique thing, which is both its greatest strength (because it offers something few other games do) and its biggest weakness (newbies struggle because it's so overwhelming and different). The extremes between casual play and competitive play is so much greater when compared to other games, as well. You can watch casuals and experts play other games and see that they both have more or less identical play styles, it's just that the casuals are much, much worse. In contrast, if you watch casual and expert DBD players, you'll quickly see that they have genuinely different approaches to playing the game. I think a lot of newer players get their first impression of how the game is "meant" to be played by watching content creators and they often try to run before they can walk.
I also think BHVR have really hurt the accessibility of their own game for beginner Survivors by nerfing the hide and seek aspects of DBD so much. This is pretty much the most obvious and reliable strategy that newer Survivor players can employ to evade the Killer. I still don't understand why BHVR thought it would be a good idea to make the beginner experience even harder than it already is.
Take all of this together and you have a game that can only really be balanced for a casual audience, imo. Otz said something in a recent video that was very telling, that they would "hate for the game to be balanced around ignorance". This is surprising to me because Otz should know better, especially as a content creator who's made tutorial videos for beginners that take an entire day to watch. DBD kinda does have to be balanced around a degree of player ignorance, because pretty much the entire player base will have pretty big holes in their knowledge of the game. It's unavoidable.
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Hours don't mean anything. You could have 8000h throwing pebbles around and trying to get a conga going. That said, I wouldn't put it past BHVR to include hours as a part of their MMR system. I find I get matched with similar hour players more often than not.
I find it pretty funny that the only mode where I can achieve a 40% escape rate is 2V8, which is the mode most people seem to agree MMR is almost completely absent from. I know that's not the experience for everyone, but no match-making whatsoever is apparently a better system for me than whatever it is they've put in place for 1V4. I don't think a game like DBD lends itself to accurate match-making, tbh. It will always be a wild crapshoot no mater what BHVR do.
(I would compare my Killer games too but I'm not ruthless enough in the regular mode to make a fair comparison).
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I think it might be tricky to bring Amanda Ripley to DBD since she's a creation of Creative Assembly/SEGA and their original License was negotiated pre-Disney merger and probably didn't include her making any appearances beyond her own game. I don't know much about how these things work but I imagine it might make things a lot more complicated.
I think a second chapter might be possible but it would probably be themed around the Alien: Earth TV series, which I found a little bit disappointing to be honest (especially the way it ended). But it had some interesting alien creatures that could potentially be turned into a Killer, I guess.
I also think most players have already had more or less what they wanted from the first Alien chapter and would be unlikely to come back in the same numbers for a second bite.
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If Exhaustion perks are next on the chopping block for BHVR, that would honestly tip me over the edge to never playing Survivor again (I'm basically there already and only play Survivor during events, but you get the point). I'm getting tired of the Survivor side receiving nerfs because a small number of exceptionally skilled Survivors can make half the Killer roster look like a joke with the tools the game gives to them. Let's be real, most Survivors are (and always will be) struggling against even the worst Killers in the game.
I think when playing a weaker Killer, you need to be realistic about the plateau you will eventually hit with them. I've put 400 hours into just playing Legion and I still get lobbies full of obviously newer players. Now it could be that I'm just bad with my chosen Killer, but perhaps that's really as high as they can go MMR-wise. I realised a long time ago that any half way decent Survivor group that can loop and knows to split up to pressure gens is going to be an uphill battle for me (even as a Killer that can deal with exhaustion better than most). All that said, pretty much every killer can have a winning record against a disorganised Solo/DuoQ team of mixed abilities (I strongly believe this is who the game should be balanced around because this is where most of the player base is). If players want to be able to compete against the strongest Survivor sides, then there are plenty of other more powerful Killers to choose from. That's kind of how a "balance" of sorts has been reached in this game. I think you're probably expected to "graduate" to stronger Killers or SWF up if you are a more competitively minded player, because these are the only ways to combat the arms race that exists on both sides.
I also think that as a community, we've told BHVR that we want the game to be built around perks and not game mechanics to balance the scales. So if Survivors are expected to shore up their weaknesses with anti-tunnel and anti-slugging perks, a similar approach should be expected of low mobility Killers. I bring 3 slowdown perks on my Trapper because I know the game will be over before I can set up my traps if I don't. Unless you want Trapper to get the Myers treatment and be turned into a totally different Killer (I don't), that's just the reality you have to accept. Just like Survivors have to accept the reality that a decent Nurse will destroy your SoloQ team and that you will be a soft target for tunnelling if you don't bring any defense against it. I wish it wasn't this way and players could run whatever perks they like and still be in with a shot at winning, but that's not the game we have. If you're not bringing something to exhaust Survivors, give you extra haste or shut down loops to make up for your Killer's weakness in chase, then you probably shouldn't be complaining about perks like Lithe and Sprint Burst.
With all that taken into consideration, I think the strong exhaustion perks are more or less fine as they currently are. I also think nerfing exhaustion would likely lead to an extremely boring pre-running play style to emerge. I don't know about anyone else, but I use Sprint Burst to work on the riskier gens and don't run until the Killer is pretty close. And even if I do reach some safety with it, I'm probably going to go down pretty quickly regardless. I think that's probably true of most Survivors that run exhaustion as well.
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I got my Trapper Adept fairly recently and I had to play quite a lot of matches (maybe 10-15?). Got pretty close a few times, but the last Survivor would always find the hatch (I don't like slugging for the 4K).
You can also go full sweat mode and employ all the strats that Survivors typically hate. This is honestly how I got my Legion adept (I felt bad about how I'd played and decided I would never do that again). But if you have no such qualms, sweating is always an option.
Another is to play at times you know there won't be many players on. You're basically gambling here that the wonky MMR will give you 50 hour newbies instead of a demon SWF group.
So it is possible, you just have to persevere and keep trying until either your MMR with that particular Killer tanks to the point it hits rock bottom, you take the gloves off or you get lucky. I only adept my favourite Killers because yeah, it can be torture trying for Adept.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I kinda get the rationale for not awarding a cosmetic (only because of licensed characters; if not for that a legendary outfit would be completely appropriate), even if I hate it. But something a bit more than a badge would be appropriate, imo. Like an animated banner to go with the badge, as has been suggested.
What is totally not cool is not having badges for Baermar and all of the Legion. Not doing legendaries is one thing, but these are distinct, base characters, and it's not like one of them is "canon" or something. I think you have to do all of them.
I'd be more annoyed about this if I actually cared about badges. But it's more the principle of it. Like, The Legion are different characters when BHVR want to sell us cosmetics (some of which I bought TWICE before cross progression) and a comic book detailing their lore and back story, but when it comes to creating their P100 icon, nah, it's only Frank who matters. And if you don't play as Frank well too bad I guess, no P100 Legion icon for you. It gives the impression BHVR don't really care about these characters unless it makes them a buck.
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I carried a Toolbox around for way too many hours before I realised they don't actually do anything by themselves.
In my defense, I thought that because my Dwight was always holding it, then that must mean he was using it. I didn't realise they are consumable items that need to be activated with a different button press.
@100PercentBPMain said:
I too didn't understand Mikey.
didn't understand how canadian teenagers always knew where I was, either.
I did something similar but with Wesker. I couldn't understand how he always seemed to find me after using the First Aid Spray. It took a couple of Trials against him before I realised that using the spray was telling him where I was somehow. To this day, I still think BHVR need to do a better job at letting Survivors know when Killer Instinct has revealed their location. It's an unfair knowledge check that only really trips up completely new players.
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I understand why you might see it as a waste not to use the designs, but by now there are probably over a hundred cool concepts for Killers and Survivors that have never left the drawing board. I don't see why the other 3 Survivors should be any different. I think adding the others at a later date would undermine the choice the community made and make The Grimoire feel a bit less special.
Then again, I still have a sneaking suspicion that the young female Survivor actually won the first round of Survivor voting. But the Devs preferred somebody else to win, so they gave us another opportunity to "change our fate". What's the point of a meaningful vote if we're going to have a do over like that? I kinda lost interest in the experiment after that.
It was a cool concept on paper, but I'd honestly rather BHVR make whatever chapter they want to make in future, instead of asking the community what we want. Because by the end of a long process like this, there will always be disappointment with more people who didn't get what they wanted than people who did.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061472#Comment_4061472
People like that 2v8 is different, but that does not mean 2v8 needs to be a chaotic unbalanced mess like it currently is.
As much as I personally dislike going up against high mobility Shadow Class Killers, I don't want BHVR to restrict the class. I don't really want anything removed from the current iteration tbh and I still think BHVR were wrong to bench Legion the way that they did. I would maybe forbid KWFs from choosing certain Killer combinations (such as Oni + any Killer that can get quick injuries). And bots should never benefit from the tonics. But if the Kill rates are otherwise fine, I wouldn't change anything else except maybe buff some weaker Killers a little bit to encourage more variety.
I think the players that enjoy 2V8 have embraced the chaotic, unbalanced nature of the mode. It's a big reason why people like it. I may be wrong, but I feel like most 2V8 enjoyers wouldn't even care if Legion was added back to the mode unchanged in the next iteration. It didn't improve queue times one bit to remove them (as might be expected if they were really pushing players away). I think survey/forum/reddit feedback often comes from the least satisfied players and BHVR interprets that to mean the player base as a whole hates something more than they actually do.
I think almost nobody playing 2V8 takes it seriously enough to care if certain things are unbalanced or unfair.
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I still don't understand why so many people think 2V8 is Survivor-sided. On paper, I guess you could argue that it should be. But in reality it's the SoloQ experience turned up to 11. It's half the lobby fighting to do the last 2 gens while the other half waits for their team to die so they can get hatch. It's 4 Survivors running across the map to uncage one Survivor. It's double the number of Survivors bringing double the number of Killers over to sandbag your gen. It's dying because someone thinks looping with friends is a good idea. It's an imbalanced, chaotic mess with next to no match-making but that's also what makes it fun and unpredictable. It's also fun because frustrations like slugging and tunnelling are less common, nobody really takes it seriously and both sides get lots of broken toys to play with.
The only thing it's missing imo is more Killer/Class variety (#bringbacklegion) and a big enough DBD player base to justify bringing it back more regularly.
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I've really enjoyed playing Chucky a lot in 2V8 and managed to do quite well with him. I don't think he really needs too much more, tbh.
I do think he occupies an awkward spot on the 2V8 Killer roster, however. His power doesn't do much to help his teammate like simpler support Killers such as Trapper and Ghostie and is a bit too tricky for less experienced players to use effectively. But at the same time, he's not nearly as strong as the other 2V8 dash Killers like Wesker, Oni, Blight and Billy. I think falling between two stools like this is part of the reason why I haven't seen many Chuckys in my trials, even though he's the only new Killer for this iteration of the mode.
I do have some suggestions. This suggestion is a silly bit of fun - I'd like for him to have a base-kit Insidious power. This perk never leaves my Chucky build and I have a lot of fun hiding in bushes and exit gates to give Survivors a scare. It wouldn't be very impactful, just something I'd like him to have because I think it would be a good laugh.
The other suggestion is a bit more controversial, but I think it would be neat for him to be given his old ability to scamper under pallets while in Hidey-Ho mode. To this day, I'm still sad that this was removed from his power when they made him all about the Slice & Dice. I honestly don't think it would be busted in 2V8 (or at least no more busted than everything else in this mode). This might get a lot of complaints though, so I doubt BHVR would ever bring it back.
He's also very slow getting around those huge maps, so the Fearmonger class feels like a necessary pick for him. I don't really think this is such a big deal, since I tend to pick a section of the map to defend anyway and let my Killer partner roam around more freely.
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People said they wanted the quality of life initiative to focus on fixing bugs in the game.
I could be wrong, but by patching these unintended bugs, sorry "techs", isn't BHVR doing exactly what people asked them to do? He does have a pretty buggy power, to be fair.
Like those times where you run all the way through a pallet, dropping it behind you, only to somehow end up being slammed into the pallet you dropped anyway (maybe this is a ping difference issue and there's no easy way to fix it, but it still feels bad when it happens to you). Dude was ruining 2V8 games with his game breaking bugs for several iterations. Survivors get stuck inside bits of the environment after being thrown even now. I have no idea if BHVR have fixed these bugs in the PTB, but it's good that his power is being look at, no?
I guess BHVR just can't win sometimes…
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058727#Comment_4058727
The game will never really be balanced is the issue. By its nature as an asymmetric game it won't be balanced. The difference in game balance between low and high mmr makes it totally impossible to create a power balance that is fair and fun for both roles at all mmr levels. This is why i think the ranked/casual playlist split is the best way to make the game enjoyable for the most people.
The is the real divide in the DBD community. Not the "Killer Vs Survivor" divide, which is typically the focus of most balance discussions, but the divide between casual and competitive players. That's actually the much more important one, imo. My basic view is that DBD was originally designed and marketed by BHVR as a casual gaming experience. But over time, the game has been pushed towards a more competitive balancing direction by years of community feedback (focused and amplified by influential and competitively minded content creators). I wasn't around for much of the game's history, but I know enough history to understand that certain aspects of the old DBD were as far away from "balanced" as you can get. So no, it was obviously never intended to be a serious, well balanced competitive game.
The direction of travel seems to be heading further down the road of competitive balancing for the enjoyment of top MMR players. I can see a more balanced future for the game at the top level (where people play this game as a serious e-sport) but a bland, frustrating and potentially less interesting game for the rest of us. I can only hope we'll finally get permanent casual and competitive queues some day and 1V4 will be free to fully diverge into a more competitive direction. I didn't always believe this was viable, but it looks increasingly likely that 1V4 won't be able to keep both camps happy for much longer.
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Good luck with the grind! That's probably one of the most expensive cosmetics in the store.
I just unlocked the Naughty Bear skin myself and it took me over a year to earn enough shards for it. I did buy Vee with shards in September though, which set me back a few months.
Being a new player you might get there quicker than I did (I don't play regularly anymore). But yeah, you should know it's gonna take a while.
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I think they're fine. Besides, I like luring them away from gens for my teammates and making them go splat by dropping a nearby pallet on their heads. The extra zombies make for some funny moments and interactions as well as providing decent slowdown for the Killer side. And don't forget you can benefit from a Zombie hit speed boost, so it's not all bad.
They're just not that annoying to me. Honestly, they could give Nemi 8 zombies and it would still be more enjoyable than going up against yet another Wesker (I especially dislike shadow class Wesker).
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I feel a similar way. One of my personal hot takes would be to reserve at least one perk slot for one of their three teachables (you could still unlock them for your other Survivors of course, but you would have to use at least one of the Survivor's dedicated perks).
It might make playing a specific Survivor feel a bit more like a strategic choice and force players to be a bit more creative with their builds. It would also mean BHVR wouldn't be able to release a Survivor like Thalita with no decent perks ever again. All of her perks have been terrible for way too long now.
But I know the player base would riot at the idea, so I've never bothered to suggest it.
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Sorry OP, BHVR have decided they're not doing anything to mitigate tunnelling anymore.
Your only option is to out perk the strategy by bringing stuff like Babysitter, Shoulder the Burden, Made For This, Off The Record, Decisive Strike etc (all the so called "second chance" perks that Killer mains love to complain about seeing in all their games). The new perk A Place For Us seems like solid anti tunnel too, but only if you can get the heal finished before the Killer returns.
Trying to out perk your opponent is what passes for balance in DBD it seems. I wish the game would move in a different direction but it is what it is. What do I know, it's worked for 9 years so far… Maybe it will work for the another 9.
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I'll play him. That's said, I was buns with Trickster before his rework, buns with Trickster after his rework and I'll probably be equally buns with the new Trickster as well. There are some Killers that I play just because I like playing them. But I didn't enjoy the last iteraton because it felt cheap to rely so much on getting all my downs with basic attacks and by popping main event. It felt like they'd reworked him for the benefit of players like myself who couldn't use his knives yet despite that, still not really improving my win rate with him. Maybe the crosshair add-on will help me a bit, I don't know.
So if the majority of Trickster mains are happy with him now, that's good enough for me.
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I don't know about anyone else but I thought hitting that P100 milestone was a reward in and of itself. Aside from the infinite level 50 blood web and unlocking perks/items, there's not much reason to prestige a character past a certain point. I spent barely any BP on my Survivors before BHVR removed visible prestige in the lobby (Just enough not to get lobby dodged or singled out by the Killer but not so much that players might expect me to be good at the game).
I know I didn't P100 Legion in the expectation that I would get a underwhelming badge some day. Especially since I would have preferred a charm anyway (which would have been equally disappointing to just as many people).
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059459#Comment_4059459
I was hoping we'd actually get more characters interacting with each other in the lobby like the Lyra siblings do. But so far we got nothing...
I think there are one or two other interactions. In the lobby Vee will ask Survivors that play an instrument if they need a drummer, for example. Maybe the Walk Dead characters talk to each other too but I'm not sure about that.
I like the talkative Survivors but they could probably stand to talk a little less than they currently do in trials. I wouldn't be opposed to a toggle for players that hate all the yapping. Chucky can yap all he wants though, because it's funny to hear him curse at Survivors and a big part of his character.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059435#Comment_4059435
Even us survivor mains know that this mode is beyond unbalanced as hell.
From the 200 pallets, pallet respawns, to the triple dashes, group/camping expose. Its so unfunny how we got old three blink nurse and machine gun huntress with aura read spam.
The worst part?, most likely made intentional, it wouldnt be like that if bhvr actually bothered to make people interested in playing survivor.
But since they wanna bring the mode back every 3 months, they barely can give content for this mode and somehow thought adding legion was such a good idea when everyone warned them not to, almost killing the mode entirely.
It took over a year and 7 iterations to add a new survivor class, meanwhile they added 11 new killers to 2v8 since they added the 5 og killers.
If they really cared, they would stop adding killers and fixed the long killer queues and low interest for survivor. By adding MORE survivor classes.
I suppose I should say what I mean by balanced. I mean that it's balanced in the sense that it more or less meets BHVR's own target of a 40/60 split of escapes to kills. Across all iterations, my own stats show a 41% escape rate and a 61% kill rate.
Of course, not much in the mode is "balanced" if taken in isolation. But that's also kind of the whole point of the mode. It's meant to be full of crazy chaotic things that would be totally busted in 1V4. It was a thrill to injure the entire lobby with Legion and get a down with their first iteration, but there were probably just as many Legions playing 2V8 that would get themselves knocked out of Frenzy by the first pallet camping Survivor they'd run into.
It's meant to be a mode where everyone regardless of skill gets thrown together to mess about with silly overpowered nonsense. That's how the mode achieves balance of a kind. Nothing on the Survivor side is balanced, but then nothing on the Killer side is balanced either.
I don't think there is anything BHVR can do to fix the Killer queue times. Removing Legion did nothing. Playing Killer will always be the biggest draw for the mode because playing as a team is the unique selling point, regardless of what they add to the Survivor side.
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2V8 is still one of the most balanced modes for me. I have a pretty normal Survivor escape rate but a slightly inflated Kill rate. I've been paired with Nemi as a partner in almost every Killer game though, so it's possible that 6V8 with the Zombies on our side really helps to slow the gens a fair amount.
Only BHVR really know if 2V8 is this or that sided this time around. Our own stats don't tell us much about the mode for the player base as a whole.
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Oh that's neat, I guess… but I do hope someone out there is a little bit more excited for these than I am.
I knew this wouldn't be anything I'd be too interested in and it looks like I was right. But then I don't really care for collecting badges. It's a bit of a shame the Legion one is just Frank, since he's probably one of my least played members of the Legion (I'm a Susie main). Think I'll be sticking with the Legion jack o lanterns one, since that has the whole gang at least.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058976#Comment_4058976
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059032#Comment_4059032
To be honest i don't believe anything was salvagable.
I think the penalties could never be tuned to be balanced. It's either abusable or pointless.
Elusive won't do much against fast killers that can track you by just maintaining LOS.
I didn't like obscuring hook notifications, really didnt feel good as a killer and i don't think they would have done enough for survivors to make it worthwhile.
Most importantly i think the incentives were the worst part of the whole thing. The incentives were only really designed for the killers that got nerfed versions of them, the benefits weren't practical for majority of killers.
These issues go deep within the games design, i don't think it can be addressed in one patch. Ideally, everything in the game needs to be evaluated to see how it contributes these issues. But this would simply take too long, best they can do is keep it mind with new content and when updating older content. This is why the solution they proposed was focused on the symptoms rather than the causes. But it didnt work because it had to ignore why the game is played the way it is. And thats very unhealthy.We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this but I think they would have made a difference. If you're used to going up against high mobility Killers able to proxy hooks and pressure the map simultaneously then yeah, the system had clear limitations. But I do think they would have helped at least a little bit to alleviate some common Survivor pain points.
Take the AFC system for an example. I can count the times I've had this trigger for me on one hand. But on one of those occasions, I was able to free myself from the hook at the last possible moment and run a Ghost Face for the time it took a trio of Davids to do the gens and open the exit gates (they gave me no other help). This system does absolutely nothing 99% of the time but when it does kick in, it can make a big difference to your enjoyment. Little things that give players a fighting chance do matter.
I also think that putting these systems in place might have been a big improvement for newer players as well. Less experienced Survivors get to Survive for a little longer and more opportunity to learn and enjoy the game they queued up to play and newer Killer players get a base-kit gen regression for progressing their objective. Seemed like a win win to me but like I said, we probably won't agree on that. Anything that might encourage newer players to stick around long enough to learn the ropes has to be a good thing, imo.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058956#Comment_4058956
Yeah, the Anti-Tunnel and Anti-Slug changes show perfectly what the issue is. BHVR tried to implement some good and meaningful changes, but since players feared they win too less with those, mass complaints happen and now everything is scrapped. And this will happen again and again, until either of two things happen:
- The Community accepts that it MIGHT happen that they win less, but will understand if they win TOO less, then the measurements will be tweaked - looking at the Anti-Tunnel changes, tweaks would have been easy and logical. Punishment too hard? Lower it. Benefit too small for not tunneling? Increase it. Still too much tunneling? Increase the Punishment. etc…
- BHVR stops listening to the loud and whiny people. And then push their ideas through and tweak them on Live. Again - it would have been easy to tweak the PTB-changes back then. And BHVR used to be like this in the past, they listened, but did not suddenly do everything the community asked.
I have to disagree with Anti-Hiding tho, the initial system was way too punishing since you got AFK-crows when you just played the game normally with occasional hiding when the Killer was nearby or if you just traversed around the map finding a new Gen. But the current implementation is probably too lenient, I have not seen a AFK crow in months on any player in my games (which is a good thing, but probably means that it triggers not often enough).
So obviously the players are at fault. But i also think that BHVR is partially at fault, if you design something where you expect that parts of the community will not like it, you have to prepare to still stick with it and then make changes from there. Listening to loud people just to scrap everything in a few hours you have probably worked on for months is just dumb.
What frustrates me the most about the whole anti-tunnel/slug situation is that most of the community didn't even get to test the new systems. And the portion of the player base that did had already made up their minds before they'd even tested it. I wanted to see players testing it to destruction to see if they could still win by tunnelling and slugging. Instead, most acted as if the system was twisting their arm to get 6 hooks before a Survivor died. I feel like we didn't really get to see an honest test of the systems in action.
When it was unveiled, people talked about the AFC system as if it would kill basement Bubba but he is still very much alive. Getting another Survivor or yourself out of the basement is still a nigh on impossible thing to do against a Bubba. I felt like the new systems might be similar to AFC in the sense that you could still employ these strategies, but they might be somewhat less effective than before.
I get that certain Killer strategies need to be in the game to counteract the things that Survivors can do to deny hooks and for Killers to mount a comeback. I just don't want them to be as free as they currently are and I don't understand why Survivors aren't afforded comeback mechanics of their own. It's frustrating that an Oni can bypass hooking to slug the entire team and if nobody has unbreakable, he gets an easy win. It's frustrating that the most egregious examples of tunnelling have hardly been touched in the game's entire 9 year history. It's annoying that Killers can slug for the 4K to deny hatch. Even if players weren't crazy about a lot of the changes, did we really have to throw out the elusive status effect? The delay to unhooking notifications? Heck, even the mini pop reward for multi hooking had promise. There's no way there was nothing at all that was salvageable from that entire PTB.
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He's definitely pretty enough to gain his fair share of admirers, but I also like that he seems like he's just some ordinary guy. Unless the Survivor has a distinctive style (like Sable's), I don't think BHVR need to push the boat out when designing default cosmetics. Besides, I like Survivors that are just regular people wearing the same clothes as when the Entity took them. I don't care what anyone says, Dwight's "I got lost on the way to the photocopier" default fit is goated.
I don't know if I'll be rushing to unlock him since I already have a ton of mains and I just spent all my shards on the Naughty Bear Trapper skin, but if his perks are exciting enough then I might be tempted.
I'm sure BHVR's designers are dreaming up some wacky out there designs for him, anyway. Pretty much every Survivor gets something flashy or flamboyant to wear eventually.
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I think the biggest problem with the game is that there are often wildly different expectations from the player base. Rather than committing to a clear direction for the game, BHVR is trying its best to keep everybody happy. That could be possible if the game grows to a point where it can sustain multiple modes. Ironically, a lot of the changes that do (or don't) come to the game to accommodate the more veteran players tend to drive away newcomers and casual players, so the game never grows and this casual vs competitive tension is never resolved.
Players feed into the problem in the sense that they often tell BHVR they want this, that or the other when in reality that's not really what they want at all. Take better match-making, which many players say is something they want. What a lot of players don't seem to realise is that this will make their games a lot sweatier because those 70%+ Kill rates and 50%+ escape rates have to come down for a fairer match-making system to work. At the top end, this will mean longer queue times, the same repeated opponents and less variety than they probably face currently.
It's puzzling to me when content creators ask for this because what they actually want is to be able to juggle talking to chat whilst simultaneously going on some absurd kill/escape/perk streak. You can have chill games or you can have competitive games, but you can't really have both. I'd prefer a solution that keeps the current looser match-making but gives weaker players some protection against being totally obliterated by a more experienced opposition.
Players might say they want an alternative to the exhaustion Survivor meta. But then BHVR created Made For This and people still complained because a small number of players could get insane value from the perk, especially when stacked with Hope. Then they decided to limit haste stacking and players complained yet again, because it would kill goofy builds like end game haste Legion, so that was shelved too. Personally, I'd rather have stronger individual haste perks over the option to stack but I guess that's just me (7% haste Batteries Included was so good).
Lots of recent changes have been about limiting options and railroading players into very specific play styles. Like being stealthy but active? Never mind, we're nerfing Distortion so that it's useless to anyone except the Survivors that like to take chase (they would never use this perk anyway). Like to bring a "selfish" back up perk in case your team is half dead at 5 gens? Cool. Let's nerf Wake Up! so it's only useful if you can stop your 50 hour Bill from being tunnelled out early. Stuff like this just pushes players away that don't want to conform to playing aggressively with constant Killer and Survivor interaction. There isn't much respect among the player base for different ways of enjoying the game. You could put the upcoming Spirit Fury nerf in this category too, although there's a good long term reason to make this change so I'm not certain of that. These are just a few examples.
I honestly don't think this community knows what it really wants from the game half the time. Do we want a goofy casual experience or a more balanced "competitive" one? I don't know.
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The main thing that frustrates me is being left to go second because everyone thinks someone else is going to go for the save. The other is everyone jumping on the first nearby gens they see at the start of the trial.
I've gotten into the habit of raiding a chest and then running into the map because I know the Killers will soon find everyone clustered around a handful of gens and there will be a couple of cages heading my way. There's also plenty of accidental sandbagging, but I don't get mad about that because 2V8's so chaotic it's more or less unavoidable.
On the Killer side, it would be teammates forgetting to patrol gens or over committing to chases. I like taking a Killer on a longish chase as Survivor, but there's pretty much no reason to chase for a long time as Killer in 2V8 unless you've killed half the lobby already. Get an injury if you can but if the Survivor is juicing you, you are always better off finding someone else to chase.
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Two thirds of the player base are currently playing 2V8 and the MMR system has never worked well at the best of times.
I avoid 1V4 entirely whenever 2V8 is live because I know from past experience the MMR system is just throwing lobbies together at random at that point. It will be back to normal when 2V8 finishes and players have had their fun with the PTB.
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I'd like to see a 4v16 mode with the whole Legion gang.
Obviously it would have to be against 16 Survivor bots, because there's not enough BP or Iri shards in the Entity's realm to bribe Survivor players to play against 4 Legions. Not sure exactly how it might work, but I think it could be fun.
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Since BHVR aren't doing anything about slugging and tunnelling anymore, these modes are pretty much the only times that I'll play Survivor these days (Chaos Shuffle often has plenty of tunnelling and slugging, but at least Killers can't also bring 4 slowdown perks to compound the misery).
They are the closest thing we have to casual modes, so I'm usually happy to see them return because I know all my fellow casuals will be queuing up there too. These modes don't seem to appeal to the more competitive side of the player base, which helps to make the trials feel a little bit more chill.
That's not to say I don't want to see BHVR develop new modes or to continue to improve established ones, because I do. The ideal for me is a rotation of casual modes so that I don't really have to play regular 1V4 ever again if I don't want to.
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@JoshuaGraham said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057895#Comment_4057895
do you think that maybe legion needs more buffs than to his kit already and just leave his playstyle alone?
Yeah, I think most Legion enjoyers would like to see their play style remain much the same. As for buffs, base-kit Frank's Mix-tape is a frequently requested buff and something I'd like to see too. I'd personally like to see Frank's Mix-tape reworked into a token based Frenzy vault speed add-on, since BHVR are reluctant to allow perks to increase Killer special ability vault speeds. I'd also like to see scratch marks while in Frenzy, especially now that it's possible to use their Frenzy for map mobility (the reduced cooldown with the Scratched Ruler add-on makes this viable). There are also times when I have to drop out of Frenzy early to see what direction a Survivor might have run in if I find a gen being worked on. It would also help them a little on indoor maps where it's easier to lose a Legion in Frenzy on these maps by breaking line of sight (a little embarrassing to admit, but I've definitely lost Survivors like this before). Maybe they could take another look at Frenzy duration because splitting up is still the most effective way to counter a Legion but I don't know about that. A buff or rework to Joey's Mix-Tape would be good too (this is a terrible add-on, imo. I only ever run it for the vibes).
There are probably other things that could be done but I can't think of any. I'm happy with their current state for the most part.
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@JoshuaGraham said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057754#Comment_4057754
I think saying "play another character" is not the healthiest of ways to view it. I get your point but that's why when you load into a survivor game and you get the same 4 killers to face each time it dulls the game and makes the killer rotation bland. If characters now have 3-4 gimmicks or capabilities, then legion and all the old school killers need that opportunity to be revamped or given some type of changes to make them a challenging killer.
A lot of Legion players (myself included) like the Killer for their simplicity. I don't want them to be a challenging Killer. I don't think they need any urgent buffs either, though of course there are some simple buffs that BHVR could make that wouldn't make them too strong. But if BHVR were to change them up a significant amount, they would likely alienate a lot of current Legion enjoyers yet they wouldn't necessarily win over enough new fans to the character to compensate. I know they have their haters (arguably a better reason than most to rework their power), but it would still be a huge gamble to change them. They're one of the most popular Killers to play, after all. One common suggestion I've seen for how Legion could be reworked would be to give them a power similar to The Knight's but I know I would absolutely hate this.
There's also a limit to how far you can buff a simple Killer like Legion. The player base is accepting of Killers that are very strong, as long as they are also difficult to master. Becuase their power is so easy to grasp, Legion would need some big changes to raise their skill floor if a boost to their strength is to be justified. I think it's OK for some Killers to be weaker than others so long as they have an appeal that extends beyond how "strong" they are and Legion ticks that box for a lot of players. I don't want to lose such a chill, casual, easy to play Killer just because some people think they are too weak.
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Adding my vote to keep the intro flavour text for perks, too.
The text is typically only a sentence long and even if it's kept, it will still be a huge improvement in readability over what it was like before. Like every one else has said, it's a little something that adds to the character of each perk. The game will become bland without little details like this.
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Are we all playing the same mode? My escape rate is currently sitting at 33% and I've never lost a Killer game (not even the one that Wesker carried when I wasn't at my best with Billy).
2V8 feels a lot more Killer-sided this time around for me.