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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011988#Comment_4011988
I agree with you sadly, even if its a pessimistic outlook. This is really why I think 2v8 is the proper future for dbd because of the classes mostly. The 4 perk system was decent for a while but the fact that there are now this many makes it virtually unmanageable. I studied game design and I was taught to not overcomplicate, not necessarily make things simple but not to create too many variables that you cannot properly test and manage all of them conveniently. And sadly the perk system has become so intertwined with 1v4 that I think that mode may be beyond proper balancing without ripping it to shreds (and I don't want that).
With the 2v8 mode they have a chance to create a much more manageable mode. Maybe on top of classes players could equip 1 perk each from a list of approved ones and slowly more and more of the perks get reintroduced? Or they could go the same path as sonic racing crossworlds with the 'perks' (that's not what they're called in src) where any 'class' (also not src name) can use any perk but perks often affect certain classes more. Like in that game the handling kit is better on a handling vehicle than a speed vehicle.
I really like the perks but I think its just far too bloated to be managed anymore, and choosing to forgo that in 2v8 hopefully means they're prepping it to be the next flagship mode to cure this problem. But again this is just my opinion.
The 4perk system clearly was created before they realized this game can be a golden goose with potential of endless DLCs. They didn't count for that much content, everything tells about this
It's not bad making complicated stuff, but it should be considerate in advance. Or it’s gonna be pretty miserable later
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012896#Comment_4012896
I escape a lot memeing. Case in point, a batch of memeing matches:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BWJ335YQV1DX/screenshot-20251005-222006.jpg
A Clown and a Skull Merchant weren't into it.
I should pick a character I haven't used and play them solely for memeing and see what rate I end up with after a lot of matches. It's different when you're in a party and can coordinate.
Thr voting is dumb. People downvoted someone's picture of their cat on one post. There are some babies here.
Currently I’m not playing in memeing sfw - just because my friend got burn out even more and don't play anymore. And I didn't really talked with his friends he asked to play with us. So yep, just have to wait or chatting with solo randoms. Sometimes we match the vibes
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012662#Comment_4012662
Oh lord you're making me want to bring a chest build so I can make shapes with items.
I died in 5/6 games doing this. But it was funny
Edit: I assume some person really hate me on this forum, so have to even downvote screenshot from phasmo. Welp — I got this.
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I can imagine the amount of packages loss and fps drop as soon as some water will appear on my screen
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I don’t think it’s much in control of BHVR, because the work of their servers is directly related to Amazon, and US government charged such a huge wealthy company to apply bunch of sanctions here and there for RF. Yes, it’s just a paradox of monopoly of companies - it’s not like the gaming directly was restricted, it’s more about how big companies who actually provide economic and social benefits to Russian government also holds an access to online entertainment.
I didn’t notice BHVR themselves claiming they are gonna cut of an access here for this region. They are way beyond some political drama, because they are game company first of all. And DBD community itself doesn’t really boycott this country, if looking on community events like League.
You have to wait. Honestly, I'm also waiting for more reasonable prices that reflect my economic region. Previously, my country's prices were directly related to Russia's, but now I'm paying like a typical UK user, even though the average salary isn't even close to their.
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I feel on its point now, it’s an attempt to blame some group here again?
Is it forbidden to complain on indeed problematic stuff?Is it really a fault of content creators that devs instead of thoughtful reconsideration just blindly kill everything most of the time?
Neither content creators nor those expressing their opinions directly contributed to these decisions. It's entirely the developers' responsibility to prefer extreme changes and endless crunch.Don’t mess consequences with actual causes
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I bet you, lightborn is pretty chill perk actually. Compared to 4 aura read stack or some slowdown seeing franklin demise and lightborn is absolutely fine.
This perk doesn’t cancel saves completely. Sabo and pallet saves still exist, so no reason to be toxic towards such mediocre perk people use to chill a little -
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012590#Comment_4012590
Phasmo is fun. Really wish I had more people who played it
Phasmo? Nuh. Jenga lobby.
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@Pulsar As I know, rank server is doing this job now and many popular creators time to time visit this place
But I don’t feel really confident (?) with my level yet. Maybe it’s my 800 hours hinting I need to practice more and more until I’ll be mentally prepared to play serious match. Because I played against 12k -20k hours already. First time I was left with one hook stage. Second time with three + few downs as slug, xd. Even if they played on busted maps like RPD and Gideon I don’t really match their level yet. I just starts to stressing myself and keep doing silly mistakes. More confident to play against 1-6 k now
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@cogsturning said:
I've been wanting a special event perkless mode for awhile. I would love to see how killers do without aura and regress, and how survivors do without exhaustion and second chance. No add-ons, no items--nothing.
Honestly I've dealt with my discontent the opposite that you likely would: by memeing. If I'm in a group, it's getting harder and harder to play serious. That's as survivor. As killer, I guess I'm feeling fine.
I’m indeed trying to meme as well, and just go there to loop the killer. One day I gave up completely and started trying to build a small heart with items from chests (thats surprisingly really hard). Sometimes killers are agreeing to 1 vs 1 or they just become friendly. But people also tired, so I don’t mind if killer slug whole team in min and let us abandon to go next. Few days ago I dced second time in my life as ragequit, because my teammate disconnected
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@Pulsar said:
Suppose I was just getting lucky generation, but yeah, these changes are ass. Less deadzones? Good! I'm okay with more fillers as well, honestly. Shouldn't see safe loops into safe loops though.
I suspect they just upped the limit for tile/pallet generation. I should not be seeing jungle gym into Shack like it's 2018. I can sort of deal with it, but I can imagine I might be one of the last.
I'd appreciate an update from the Developer Team, if they even know this is an issue or if this is just something we are gonna push to live and ignore.
Dead Zones still exists and maps depends on RGN extremely a lot. But yes, RGN is really busted right now.
I got Swamp with two windows and pallets on both side. Killer… Killer just DCed. You can’t make mistake simply in specific places. And why people keep calling 50/50 and pallet for distance trash ones? They are pretty good. You aren’t supposed to play them in vacuum, you should connect tiles. And when 3 “trash” fillers are connected to each other, they are turning out to be good. 50/50 doesn’t really exist in such case
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012526#Comment_4012526
no, i agree with you. i made a post the other day why dbd should have a ranked queue in fact. i'm just talking about this right here:
I still hope to truly master Executioner and win against some pub scrim team on him. Maybe play some comp match even.
i mean that you should not play this game just for this goal. if you do that means you dont enjoy the game anymore because you are hoping for something in the future to make it worth playing. if that's not the only reason you play for then disregard.
iwould not take the game so seriously unless you're playing on the ranked discord or until ranked officially gets added in. just my opinion.
i mean that you should not play this game just for this goal. if you do that means you dont enjoy the game anymore because you are hoping for something in the future to make it worth playing. if that's not the only reason you play for then disregard.
Oh, no, actually I’m fine with such type of play. I’m not burn out of idea I need to compete with comp or scrim - because they do their own balancing in private servers.I’m not actually looking for such teams in public match, and I’m not playing like comp every time. Otherwise, I hardtunneled in every match and used league balancing for perks. Which seems pretty bad idea for me to behave like this, because comp and pub have both different mentality and way of play. My pub is more about some weird challenges or learning my M2.
My burnout with Killers is more about still playing against system more than against the players themselves. Solos have no real information, and the maps are very strangely balanced. It's demoralizing, and my matches are literally 50% semi-sweat, 50% I'm looking on a DCed person, betraying a teammate, doing really weird stuff. What can I do? Like, this game literally didn't teach people. I have low hours, but I watched a lot of sources and had practice with way stronger players than me, so I feel I have some kind of unfair advantage towards moments when MMR shows me 500 hours survivor with lute. And being friendly over and over again because game itself failed in creating comfy zone for such players feels like a waste of time. Next game I can feel this unfair disadvantage for myself, being forced to play on broken map with some sfw with 4 syringes and bunch of SB with total of 12k hours. Do I feel people want to play with me? Not really.
Burnout on Survivors is a little different. Playing solo is simply painful, I don't think I even need to explain why. And some of the developer decisions are simply strange. I don't mind the Ghoul's ability itself - even his free hit scans. But the balance of addons that literally allow him to play with six perks, or Krassues’s lack of a cooldown that allows her insta M1, while I see a lot of them, kills me from inside. And it’s also demoralising my teammates. I … maybe ragequited twice for my 800 hours as surv, but can’t even count how much it happened on 5 gens from my teammates. And nothing I can really do about this
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012471#Comment_4012471
if you dont enjoy the gameplay right now then you should not play just hoping for stuff like that. it is deceit. dead by daylight esports is a joke not worth the trouble.
Maybe I’m not asking for e sports…? Just not something braindead where strengths defines by system rather than play? Because when you ask for indulging casuals through initial mechanics, you can get something like Krasue, where opposite side of same casuals will be straightforward mad seeing something like this. Because it’s simply brain dead and unfair.
The game currently doesn't fit into either the casual or competitive categories; it literally suffers from a lack of self-definition. Trying to say that there's no room for casual or competitive play in this game is the weirdest thing imaginable, because this game consists of both types of players and they constantly encounters each other. So it clearly shows BOTH sides deserve their definition of fun in game, but current lack of SBMM and balance issues literally denying the consistency of this fun for both sides.
PvP genre can’t build around casualties only. One way or another, just because people have a tendency in competition, some individuals will start competing with each other. And it’s like duty of the game to make it feel less about system and more about skill. Why do we try to deny the psychological nature? Some people literally live for competition, and that's what PvP games are for
Edit: I’m not talking about this as in context that playing casual in DBD is something that we should fight with. I’m trying to say here, that providing casual play through initial mechanic is a bad idea, because casual play should evolve around healthy environment. They shouldn’t be handholded - they should be put in comfortable zone that will satisfy them, while comp will have some sort of their own playground.The system should balance the game's approaches and intelligently separate them, rather than favoring one over the other when the community has already formed such categories. Because if the scales tip one way or the other, the balance will collapse. Are the mechanics too casual? Experienced players obsessed with winning will find a way to abuse them. Too competitive? Casual players will lose motivation and become frustrated, which leads to gameplay sabotage. And we're already seeing this in the game.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012383#Comment_4012383
How can they end chases fast? They have no strong chase power.
I don’t know about position of person above a lot, but Wraith is a good choice with some stability, if using proper add-ons. He has some sort of better mobility, unlike Chucky, and can creat dead zones faster
Chucky has good stealth, as well as anti loop. Probably the best one compared to other stealth killers. But 4.4 and new pallet density affects him a lot. If you aren’t spending your time maining Good guy so you are literally cracked with your M2, Wraith will be the better option for control. Chucky is way too dependent on chase time, and he doesn’t really have tools for pressuring
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Looking from this perspective, such idea doesn’t seem like crazy
Chasing DH player is absolutely way more interesting for me usually. But I don’t use DH myself. This perk is way too problematic to use on it’s own due to server and ping issues. I don’t want to make my DH over evident, but most of the time I’m trying to hit exact timing lunge is prioritised and killer got me
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@CrypticGirl said:
I'm pretty much feeling the same. It's been about four years, I've spent about three of those years getting all my Survivors to P9 and then afterwards getting my main (Dwight) to P100. And during this past anniversary event, I've gotten all my Killers to P1, so if I ever get into Killer, they'd have a full load out.
But I couldn't even get into the Killer role because the gameplay is just so boring to me. So now that my major goals are done, I no longer play on a daily basis, because I've had my fair share of frustrating matches as Survivor. Despite that, I can't bring myself to leave the game entirely.
But even if I do leave the game, I can still enjoy the universe by writing fan fiction. Or playing with DBD-Survivor Sims in The Sims 3 (and writing fan fiction about that), lol.
I still hope to truly master Executioner and win against some pub scrim team on him. Maybe play some comp match even. And making a video with collections of my journey to p100 . Maybe I’m a little bit overobsessed with this killer, as well as with my Rebecca. But I really hope on it’s own my gameplay can be impressive
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012422#Comment_4012422
Playing in a too competitive way is a definite cause for burnout.
Take that from myself, who used to play a lot of Counter-Strike and League of Legends. It was simply rage-inducing and never fun. You were just there, as another pawn on a chessboard, where the match was pre-determined in the matchmaking lobby.No chill = No fun - That was my takeaway from being overly competitive, back when I actively played those games.
If you take things too seriously, it is very hard having fun with it. And that also applies to DBD.
But in DBD it is also important to consider your opponent as well. Maybe they are not playing all too serious, and just want some fun shenanigans.The MMR system, and SBMM as a whole is also to blame here, where you hit a treshold, and will only be matched against the most competitive people, who has zero chill, where it feels like you are playing against robots, who are programmed for maximum efficiency.
I may enjoy efficiency and competitiveness, but the issue for me that from DBD it’s caused from something artificial, rather than actual play. Like perks, abilities, etc. Thats why I started to main a killer which is more likely will miss from the start and I have to practice. Thats why I’m still playing solo Q as survivor.
I hardly can tell this is competitiveness, to be honest. When I had period of playing COD (even mobile tho) and some other shooters I was actually more competitive. Like… much more. I don’t use clock call outs, S tier killers, and use full meta on survivors only because I lost any hope for random teammates most of the time. Sometimes I’m playing in streamer’s sfw with no voice and can allow there something more fun, like full altruism or stealthy builds
Effectiveness and high competitiveness can be fun. But not in DBD really, because it feels so soulless. Maybe it’s the lack of micro gameplay and technical limitations. You can’t do too much in this game in this terms until don’t start to play some ladder or trying to master high skill ceiling killer.
Just as an example recently - started first two games, and game was too easy, people gave up. Third game - two DCes, I let two people do gens and went AFK, felt too bad for them. Next game - something better, but got trash talk in EGC because few times returned to the hook and did first kill on 6th hook and not on 8th (and of course this team had full meta package and people with zero stages was prerunning to shack, while their teammates I “tunneled” did a whole package of primitive mistakes I couldn’t ignore.) As soon as I’m chill on killer - people ready to aggressively BM. I artificially handicapped myself playing one damn whisperer but do some aggressive hardtunnel - trashtalk. I got some trashtalk just for running some builds in games where I didn’t tunnel at all even. It’s impossible to satisfy some people, so I really don’t get this message of understanding opponents, when I barely was respected from such people myself. People who respected me… they maybe played “unfair”, but they never was mad at me if somehow outcome went wrong for them.
Nothing better for survivor gameplay as well. I’m trying my best - my teammate doing some primitive mistakes, we lose. I don’t treat game that seriously - get trashtalk. People really forgot what actual competitiveness and toxicity means in this game, terms became simply too obscure. Maybe I’m wrong here, who knows.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012431#Comment_4012431
The thing is, I've already spent a lot of money on this game.
That's a large part of why I stick around, too: sunk cost fallacy. Also, it's one of the few games my friend and I can (well, maybe "could"—past tense—would be more appropriate, now) play together because of PS4/Switch cross-play. But probably mostly sunk cost and time.
Stopping wasting money made me feel better, but we'll, XD, I still spend a lot.
I've bought almost all the licenses, and I bought the original characters through bundles. So yeah. I usually don't spend too much money on games (even when I played Chinese gacha, I prefered to grind rather than pay for gamble). Silent Hill and BG3 were the exceptions, while DBD was the most expensive game I've ever played. And I regret this a little.
I tried alternatives, like Identity or Carnival. Carnival isn’t for me, while Identity… well, here is a true definition of competitive game. Sometimes I still play because it gives me more of a challenge than DBD, but the atmosphere in the game is alien to me
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@TragicSolitude said:
I play games that aren't DbD.
Sorry, that's probably not the answer you're looking for, but it's the truth.
Playing with a friend makes DbD more fun, and we do silly things that aren't really part of normal gameplay to alleviate the burn out. We love the lute. Right now, however, Switch is cut off from cross-play, so my friend and I can't play together. I just finished my first playthrough of Dying Light: The Beast. Good game. I've also been playing some Hollow Knight (original), Lords of the Fallen (2023), and a bit of Bloodborne. If I'm going to be playing a game solo, I'm going to play a game that's fun for solo, and DbD ain't it.
I currently enjoying remake of Silent Hill2 and planning to try SH3 as well.
But yeah, that's not exactly what I'm looking for. The thing is, I've already spent a lot of money on this game. I can't just leave DBD—at least not right now. I’m making pauses and that's fine, it just feels it doesn't really work anymore and quality is even more poor
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@[Deleted User] said:
this game isnt a very deep game with ranked progression like league or street fighter. you're simply burnt out. you need to stop playing for a bit. alternatively go play with friends or randoms with vc on discord. or you can take inspirations dfrom the content creators. they do challenges and winstreaks becuse they're bored.
Is it really related to my desire play the game more competitively? I mean… I have also pretty casual friends and even myself can try some meme build time to time. And I’m not expecting to win when play like this, but it just… doesn't feel I really allowed to do it anymore
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Executioner. His sigh during the stun reflects my emotions towards this game really well.
Oh and well blind shots is such a lovely thing to do
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012402#Comment_4012402
so if people looping a pallet is unfun for me as killer then does that make them toxic? killer is by nature a hostile participant btw….
They imagined some own set of rules, while themselves don’t bother following it. Complaining on DC and doing it themselves later already speak enough about personality of such people
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If considering add-ons, I think Wraith. On its own it is Dredge
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Killer refuse to tunnel later and DC because had the lost start - toxic
Killers don’t refuse to play but tunnel – toxic
Killer play strong character - toxic
Killer just AFK for some reason but didn't refuse to play later – toxic
DC yourself - ThatS dIfFeReNt.
Holy. I assume this community is lost. And people who are crying about some toxicity the most starting to be an actual issue
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The making gameplay of survivor evolve around perks… was a bad first made decision
You can’t create over 200 perks without providing too boosted combinations or not making around half of them borderline useless. Killers have the same problem, but they at least have additional micro gameplay opportunity
And since because it’s so many perks, you as solo survivor would never be able to play accordingly team, because you simply lack of info…
Just only one this thing making half of this game pretty miserable.
I’m afraid we can’t balance it. It’s just… unaffordable anymoreI’m agree they making this game oversimplified and mindless over the time. Recent Killer don’t need to worry to aim, while currently survivors have endless resources they don’t need to manage that thoughtful anymore (beside their hook stage).
But I can’t tell this game is oversimplified on its own. Something completely opposite. So many layers created a real mess here…To solve this, they would have to abandon half of everything they've already done, delete and rework. And that's... impossible. I'm afraid this is already some kind of point of no return, but I hope devs at least will start to try better
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Are they really underrated? I thought they admittedly belong to high tiers, only bugs and relatively long cooldown after miss not allowing to climb them to S tier. Their slug potential and map pressure is crazy. I played against them and so many times it’s impossible to outplay in solo without spreading
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What do you mean by fundamentals? @WriteByDaylight_
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I don’t want to say you are wrong completely, because huh, I myself part of “Russian community” just because it’s my native language (however I’m from different place). But… it’s stereotyping. Really bad one, I’m not gonna lie.
— Yes, maybe we are too sweaty. I’m watching many content creators, and since Russian team also won World Cup from Hens recently, it’s pretty clear how we treat this game. Even myself on this forum was supporting more competitive mindset, tho I’m not actual try hard compared to people I know. But chill players existing too. Believe me, mutual agreement of tunneling, gen rushing and try harding doesn’t exist in our community. But no, I don’t treat this game personally, nor do others from my region. I never was salty towards losing, doesn’t matter did it happen because I was tunneled myself or tunneled someone. GL is message I give most of the time, or some silence.
— Yes, competitive behaviour may lead to toxicity. However, the absolutely same toxicity I was getting from many different countries, even racist slurs, so I wouldn’t say here it’s a prevalence. Majority of offences I got was actually on English/German/French, and I think it was even more personal for me. At least I didn’t get death threats from players of my region… yet. I know they exist.
— I can’t agree with cheating here, because actual community despise such approach.
Russian people may see as “prevalence” in toxicity, but you shouldn’t ignore one fact - this one of the actually really popular languages. The whole CIS speaking this language, and many countries of former Soviet Union too. Russian speaking gaming society is really broad, so it may create an impression a lot of people behave like this. However it’s not actual true.Because reasonable people will keep quiet and not make a big deal out of themselves. You might not even know you're playing with a Russian—at least, I can tell from my own experience. My Steam profile and username are in English, and my friends list barely gives away the group I belong to. But many people I knew in the game sincerely believed I was from, say, England or Germany, just like them. Until I told them different
And I’m getting a little tired of people who tries to tie my ethnicity with gaming. At least because they wrong in 99% of cases with my ethnicity. At max because it’s actual toxicity
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Honestly, I enjoyed 80 sec of no scratch marks and aura read more. If the previous OTR didn let pool of bloods it would be perfect for me. I used recent OTR with Resurgence and it gave good anti tunnel lately…
I hope in future we can get other kind of perk that does such stuff, thanks
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011373#Comment_4011373
But this is asymm.
For real though, that's been my whole point. Just punishing doesn't work, just rewarding doesn't work. Do both, there's no reason not to.
Your point was slightly different, meaning punishment doesn't work at all. But whatever, seems people really like convenient goal shift of topics here.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
Hell yeah bro, PH I feel is way harder and I definitely commend your residence and skill to keep a KR. I did something similar with huntress, I went from p1-100 with only iron maiden and no add-ons and I also never ran aura on her either so all I had to rely on was my bare skills. After that I extended to all killers. Now for 2.5 years I haven't touched perks unless for a redeem. It has made me a significantly better killer in general and leagues better at huntress. An M2 challenge seems extremely interesting I might have to steal that (with credit of course)lol
Actually, the idea of M2 challenge was took from Fiuyr, p100 phead main. He really inspired me to play this killer a lot
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@Xray said:
i got a PH build that involves just going undetectable while the knife is in the ground its a addon that does that but i forget the name, and using Surveillance and Gearhead to catch people on gens off guard.
Oh, Ik what you are talking about, this build was pretty popular! To be honest, not really into my style, so I played really a little with this build
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011288#Comment_4011288
And yet we have people in here claiming they see DC's in a third of their matches, iirc.
People are getting the penalties. They just don't care.
I have no idea if that's true, for the record. The last update I heard was that it was match-based. You have to play a certain number of matches in order to clear the record. I haven't heard any announcements stating this was changed. Do you have any of that information so I can read it?
They don’t get actual penalties. They doesn't exist at all
I gave them an escape just because it's third match I see people giving up. On 5 gens! Hell nuh I would even try to listen words of people who just leave their teammates to deal with their frustration.I literally had 5 matches in a row - p100 Blight, Trapper from DBD League, Krasue, 3 ghouls, Huntress with iri hatchet. I didn't DC and played every match as survivor. Neither should others. When I felt bad being killer, I had a long pause of playing. Same I do with survivors. It's only a question of mindset and someone whims, it can’t be justified and I wouldn’t even try to seriously accept demands of such people, because when I played as survivor they sabdbagged me so many times, they killed any empathy to them. And many others feel the same
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011280#Comment_4011280
There were still huge threads about DCs.
They are being punished, literally as we speak. You are acting like there's no system in place.
IT IS NO SYSTEM!!! LITERALLY!!!
You aren't getting DC ban that strict anymore, you literally can freely DC without punishment two times per 24 hours
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011249#Comment_4011249
How are we allowing it? There are penalties. They don't really work.
Why should we continue to dump time and resources into a system that doesn't work?
QoL has a chance to positively impact both the DC rate, and thereby the quality of the average match, AND simultaneously improve the normal player experience. Why shouldn't we focus on that?
Why it doesn't work? Before they removed penalty for first dc, DC was much less occurrence
Again. This people must to be punished for sandbagging teammates and griefing. I don’t care
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011195#Comment_4011195
Like I said immediately following that statement, it is entirely possible that it won't solve the issue. I am not clairvoyant. I do not see the future; I do not know the hearts and minds of every player, and I admit as such.
What I do know is that there's no harm in say, making matches worth staying in. I know there's no harm in helping out Solo Q with new emotes or a communication wheel.
What else do I know? I know what we've been doing hasn't been working.
No one is saying the game shouldn't improve QoL. But allowing this behavior or trying to justify it is still unacceptable. Like, this is literally sabotaging of the whole gameplay. How to even sympathise such people and listen them?
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Here's the thing, we have tried the carrot with tunneling. We've seen what happens when Killers have a ton of regression and no "need" to tunnel. Eruption, CoB, PR, Pop, Overcharge, Corrupt etc etc. Huge amounts of regression and still we saw a ton of tunneling, camping and slugging.
Maybe that's show people will do this no matter what?
So, maybe following your own logic, giving carrot to survivors won’t stop them to DC?
I'm truly amazed at how, without my intervention, you continue to bury your own arguments with contradictions that you create yourself. “We aren’t sure in outcome” doesn't matter. Because it's the most baffling argument person could ever provide in such topic. You also don’t know outcome of proper DC ban, just this thing demolish such unstable position.
That's why I don’t really like such discussions on this forum. As soon as you try to argue somehow objectively , people trying to throw emotional sentiment and hypothesis without proofs, calling it valid experience that should be prevalent. But as soon as you show it contradicts to some cases, they urgently call “it's different”, “but fun is more important”, or something else that doesn't actually correlate to PvP genre or balancing
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@BloodBird said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011174#Comment_4011174
If you were playing a game of basketball, and every time you played with your friends, the other team just walked along the court, never running, never trying and never posing any challenge to you, you'd stop playing basketball.
As a killer, having ppl dc every game, makes games pose no challenge, and makes DBD a boring game that killers won't want to play, because whats the point if no one is gonna actually take it seriously?The issue it works like this only in a really few matches. Like against Krasue, where all 4 tends to give up from the start.
Killers won’t care about one person DCibg it. Moreover, they would like let such team last longer, holding them as hostages, because it's already more like 3vs1, and play for chases, rather then being stressed about some timer that usually chases them. Killers right now is also pretty unfun role and I also find DC frustrating, but not, that’s not enough for me to stop q as killer. I’ll stop do this only if after 15 minutes of wait u I wouldn't be able to find with who I can play.
If you want to continue with an analogue of basketball... Imagine you are playing alone against 4 people, and suddenly you notice how one of them refuse to play properly.
What you are usually gonna do? Abuse it. Because other 3 might actually want to outplay you. That's how people usually play games. They don’t waste 5 bullets to the chest of some random ebemy, they’ll prefer to do quick headshot to NPC to save some for stronger opponent. Because such approach allow more interesting, but safe game later. You won’t loose - because they, that their teammate literally gifted you a win. But you might allow yourself having interesting chases with survivors later.
The question is how easy it is to aim for that very head. And DCing is helping to your enemy by standing still, which I don't appreciate. I may understand why people thinking DCing will work like you described, but again 10 YEARS of game showed it doesn't really work, people still play basketball.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011166#Comment_4011166
I would agree with that then.
Although apparently the DC'ing is getting people to quit. Which is apparently the goal?
I dunno. BHVR does listen to the money, but they always have a stream of new players, so I just don't think we'll see any changes until it's far too late.
People still play no matter what. Just being honestly - majority of people I know who left this game are killer mains. On survivor side, is more a tendency of DCing without actuall point later. So that's why
PTB and your words have correlation. You can’t say “Banning DCing is too punishable, you can’t address it like this”, while at the same time defending PTB. The CORE system of PTB was about punishing people for playing not in way some people want. It can’t be fixed by tweaks, because the CORE mechanism of anti tunnell is to punish. And PTB wasn't addressing core issue of tunnelling; incentives wasn’t enough, while gen rush was even buffed in twice. Because it's impossible to fix tunnelling due to a nature of 1 vs 4 assym genre. 4 players will always be strongest at their max in point, and just the fact that it can exist doesn't allow killers to get rid of idea to tunnel.
But yeah, you called it people crying over game being more difficult, thats why your arguments doesn't seem sincere and is more about defending some emotional sentiment here
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011125#Comment_4011125
Can you restate this? I'm having a difficult time understanding it.
… That's something.
You are telling punishing players without addressing core issues is bad idea, but as soon as I talked about PTB, it stopped being a matter of this and turned to be different story. And actual cause is people crying because of more difficult matches.
You literally contradict yourself.
Another question: you said you stopped playing, but you also continue to be a member of the community instead of going, playing five seconds of a match, and then DC. What's the problem with EVERYONE doing this without ruining the lives of their teammates?
The person above is absolutely right. DC has always existed, since the days when the game was surv-based. The problem only worsened because the alternative to this behavior, the "going next" system, was removed.Questions about tunneling, genrush, or SFW can remain speculative because they often affect the opposite role and are directly related to balance. But it can be not emotional and rather an actual way of play, that's why punishing this — terrible idea.
DC, However is ALWAYS about emotions. And these emotions harm solo Q ten times more than a hypothetical tunnel. Because there are counters to tunneling in the form of perks and skill, BUT I can't counter the fact that my teammate turned out to be a potato and for some reason continues to play this game he hates instead of uninstalling. And devs won’t listen them. Because as I told two times before, such people still buy stuff and contribute to online.
I told about MFT patch, because it showed that if x side actually show the strike that harms devs mostly, by great loss of online, then that's something actually effective. PTB was cancelled because they don't want to deal with MFT experience twice. Survivors DC? Nothing actually critical, as soon as this same person will continue to play one way or another.
Therefore, I'm all for such players disappearing from the community forever. They'll rant and rave about how this game is ruining their fun, but they'll ignore the sabotage they commit with their own hands. You can’t adress such behaviour without punishment.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010982#Comment_4010982
I have no idea why you mentioned MFT. Weird.
The anti-tunnel PTB was at least BHVR trying to address a huge complaint, which is that the game is functionally over if someone gets tunneled out. Unfortunately, instead of tweaking it, they backtracked after the majority of Killers lost their minds over having to put in more effort. Extremely disappointed in both the Killer community at large and BHVR.
DC'ing isn't justified. Banning without looking at the root causes is even less justified. All you do is cover up the issue temporarily. This entire thing is because punishments aren't going to work unless there's meaningful change. It is absolutely crazy to me how people can see half a decade of BHVR punishing people for giving up or disconnecting (and recently getting innocent players in the crossfire), see the abject failure of it and complain it isn't solving anything AND THEN turn around and continue to ask for them to do the exact same thing that isn't working.
People do leave, BHVR just pulls another license and gets new people, so it doesn't matter. I also like how you think it's terrible for Killers to leave but Survivors should leave to prove a point. Just an odd difference.
I’ll just quote @OnryosTapeRentals here
A lot of the things the chronic DCing crowd complain about are simply unfixable without uprooting the foundations of the game. And considering the game’s age and established player base, attempting to do so would be a horrible idea.
Looking from other perspective is enough to already understand everything.
And the thing that entertains me at most… it’s so funny, how you call punishment of DC unable to justify and meaningless, but as soon as same happened in PTB, we heavily imply “BUT WE TRIED TO ADRESS THE ISSUE!”
This entire thing is
becausepunishments aren't going to work unless there's meaningful change
they backtracked after the majority of Killers lost their minds over having to put in more effort
It’s just a whole pile of hypocrisy here. Apply your own words on people who DC and look at their reaction. They’ll eat you.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010992#Comment_4010992
This “quit attitude” exists for killers as well
So, I'm talking to specifically this individual here, not generally. I'm aware that this isn't a universal "one size fits all" thing.
Are we even trying to compare a DC of killer and a survivor in game?
I'm not, and if you think that was my point you should read it again. I'm not taking about even dc's specifically, but the reaction to players appearing to be biased and sided.
I'm taking about change and game health. Survivors not enjoying the game are being told, "if you don't like it just quit" and nothing is getting better for them.
The voices saying "punish them if they don't like it" are being heard and punishments are pushed out, even despite the fact that nearly everyone said this is too much when "go next" launched, BHVR only pulled it for like two weeks, then pushed it back out again with minor changes. At least we think with minor changes, since that's how it feels, especially because they didn't put anything in the patch notes about it.
It still falsely flags people, even if not quite as badly. It still determines if the player is "trying" (so, you can play the game wrong, enough to be banned), and it still punishes.
So, for survivors: it's literally "the beatings will continue until morale improves".
Now let's look at the "anti tunnel" and "anti slug" ptb: pulled immediately, because people burned down the forums in a fit. And you'll be hard pressed to find a thread that didn't say something to the effect of "this will kill the game" or "we'll all leave".
Where's that system? Pulled. Indefinitely. No "just tough it out", no "we'll sneak it back in with some tweaks". Nope.
Specifically they literally said "abusable and overly punishing" and pulled it. So where is the "if you don't like it just quit"? That's my question.
Don't play at all, or at least play in a way that doesn't stab your own teammates in the back. That's the only thing people are asking for.
But it's not the only thing people are asking for. Some people are actively torpedoing anything, even discussions, about fixing core issues of the game.
People like me have been patiently and reasonably asking for a fix to actual problems in the game. You literally cannot have a discussion about fixing tunneling in this forum in a constructive way without the thread getting derailed by the loudest and most biased people.
Threads trying to discuss these issues get derailed. The most recent were several hundred posts long and one got off track because someone was intentionally forcing a conversation about "so you think sitting at a gen is hard? Lul", and another about "no seriously, tenacity by itself is abusable and needs nerfing". Come on.
And we aren't getting constructive feedback, either. Zero, and I mean zero attempts to fix literally any of the core reasons people might dc. At least in regards to the anti tunnel changes. People said "no we don't want it at all" and aren't even trying to fix it beyond "just keep the buffs part".
No, it can't be that players don't get to play the game if they're unlucky enough to be the first person downed. We don't want to talk about that, because that might mean changing something. It's gotta be that everyone is petty and needs punished. And if the punishments don't work, then add more punishments.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves".
Because we have this mentality, the point of my post, which is: if you don't like it, then quit.
But only for survivors. And that's #########.
So, I'm talking to specifically this individual here, not generally. I'm aware that this isn't a universal "one size fits all" thing.
This individual was speaking about survivors, maybe because this post was about survivors DCing and how it affects people?
No, it can't be that players don't get to play the game if they're unlucky enough to be the first person downed. We don't want to talk about that, because that might mean changing something.
Oh yeah. I’m pretty sure another year of sandbagging will make killers or devs change their mind. Because it’s you harming them and not your own role.
Very grown up behaviour, indeed. I hope I would never encounter people like you who tries to justify such behaviour in my match, that’s all I can say.
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@adam1233467 said:
These corner map pallets will be very effective against Nurse yes.
Whether intentional or not, it's good that they make all maps have the same structure to make life easier for beginners, as there were specific map tiles that only confused beginners.
The same reason they removed the variants from the existing maps. Remember when there were two Coal Towers? Honestly, there was no need for that.
I’m still pretty dissatisfied with map changes. They preferred quantity over quality only because there are few killers who just eat this structures as some snack. I look at you, Blight…
However for every at least somehow balanced M2 killer it’s a pain. I can’t use my power on my main much anymore, because majority of survivors will prefer to skip loop and go to other as soon as I charge it.
Yes, I understand that sometimes M1 is more effective, but on some maps scrructures are too crazy for committing to M1, or too trash to M2. But I simply want to use my power and don’t fight with shift W.
Obviously I’m not mad against survivors who playing like this. They are forced rn , because this update and other issues caused chain reaction where now every serious game is a question of tunnel. But it’s still, very frustrating how job was done.
The only thing I liked is corner map changes. They don’t affect other killers too much and meant for higher tiers or range with LOS need. And new Z long wall jungle gym. I don’t appreciate any other change they did. And that thing they even didn’t mention that it’s affected other realms as well makes me so confused. I genuinely feel like some OTR or hook stages changes, they simply overlooked this and didn’t really addressed all feedback from PTB. Apparently, deadline is more important than quality
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@adam1233467 said:
It didn't change the way pallets appear, but it definitely changed some structures that can appear on maps. Now, for example, toba can appear t wall, ormond jungle gym, etc. I found it interesting that some maps that weren't listed in the update notes also have something changed.
I’m also curious about density, tbh
Because it’s really, really random. I noticed there are more 2 pallets loop on maps that they weren’t listed, and it’s just a little bit frustrating for me. They also added more textures on corners, maybe for Nurse, not sure.
The question to the devs - was it intentional to affect realms that they didn’t listed, or it’s another technical flaw?
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@Filipino1490 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011038#Comment_4011038
Actually Beautifuly said i really do like your opinion but then the one think they need to do is worse killers around the same level as you mentioned not S but definetly A or B tier
Maybe I’m just tired from waiting of reworking every role/killer power/perk, so I’m low key against it.
The only thing right now I’m craving for is building meaningful MMR and map rotation, as well as work on bugs and server issues. After this adressing Map RGN issue (it’s still bad, we just got more pallets, but it doesn’t mean dead zone doesn’t exist), and providing solo q some info perks. Only after this I’ll be ready to see another rework or buff/nerf. In the meantime, all our changes represent an attempt to wash toxins out of the river, while an entire factory continues to pour waste into the water. I just don’t want to see it anymore.
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@Clevarz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011034#Comment_4011034
Rebecca is one of my favorite Resident evil characters I love to see this :D
also good luck getting 60%My 94% pickrate telling I’m really in love with her :)
Some people find this strange, but I'm just a very monotonous person who stays in a kind of comfort zone. Rebecca and the Executioner became that for me in this game.
Maybe something will change after a few thousand games, but now I’m happy seeing my cowgirl
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@Filipino1490 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011031#Comment_4011031
but think about the other killers not just s tier they need to do something also why do you think that the 5th perk slot is tunneling or everything else ? what do you mean by that? i just wanna know.
It’s just stating fact. I don’t tell is it right move - to balance game around Blight. But it is what happening now.
For 5th perk - it’s a strategy. You genrush and play in sfw as survivor, or tunnel/camp as killer. To get this effectiveness and result. 10 years of this game, this will never change, because it’s people desire to play like this. And I find it logical.I would be honest, if you are facing actually good survivors even in solo, with new update that changed maps you can’t win without using “unfun” methods on most of the killers. At least it’s what I observe now playing both survivor and killer.
I mean you can fp and still win. The question can you continue to commit this fp against actually good players? Unlikely. But MMR is broken. I can’t be sure am I against good players or lower experience than mine, until 2 gens left or first kill
DBD is a game of contrasts. If you're playing as a survivor and your teammate dies at four gens, you realize it all and are forced to gen rush. It's the same with a killer: if you have one stage on each player and two gens remain without good 3gen, you often realize that continuing the same pace of play will result in a gg.Your fifth perk is to be able to properly pressure the map from the start regardless of your role. And yes, if you want high results on killer - you either playing S tier, or playing specific A/B killer and master them until in your hands it won't start to shine like an S tier. Or stay on mid, you still can get high KR there
Killers with high mobility can you provide this so called 5th slot, because they base kit tool for pressure -
Actually, my highest on Rebecca was around 55%, when I had period of playing in sfw
I definitely need to improve my skill as survivor. My micro is poor still, because I was focussing on killer too much (I had really bad period on killer, where my stats were lower 50%), while my games on survivor is usually really casual and chill. Hope one day I’ll achieve 60%, it’s what I’m aiming for
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They started to balance gameplay around S tier killers. It’s just will get worse over time, I’m pretty sure
But your 5th perk is tunneling or everything else. Don’t listen other people, just play the game effectively on both sides