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It’s not party, not competitive. You and your opponent choose what it is supposed to be every match
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@dramafinesseXD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014985#Comment_4014985
Yes my brother I’ll just win every 50/50 wether they will walk through the pallet or not after looping it dw thank you for the counterplay
But you don’t need to win 50/50? If he gonna vault and hinder survivor, he needs to prepare his leap, which means he can’t hit you with m1. And survivor is getting sound notification when he is cancelling power.And you’ll have a safe window of time to predrop/stun
You aren’t supposed to play 50/50 most of the time with him, this killer is about survivor catching timings
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I don’t enjoy “abandon” thing no matter happens, no matter side. DC should happen for actual reason, and if something happens that you don’t want to stay in match any longer just because what you considering time waste, this should be a surrender thing
The issue is survivors aren't individuals, they are a team. But system keep treating them as individuals.
I hope one day it’ll be entirely reworked, we get vote system. If at least one survivor want to dc, they propose a vote, if 3/4 agree with, team surrendering and it counts as win for killer. Progress stays, people keeping their points, it just counts as sacrifice. If not but one survivor still want to dc, they should get a greater ban timer for matchmaking. Not some cheap minute
If killer want to surrender absolutely same stuff should happen. You either giving auto win for opponents (so people can complete achievement related to map for example), either nothing.
I just personally hate an idea people can “abandon”. Or that they can leave a bot and this may throw an entire match for others. As killer I’m not enjoying interaction with bots.
I literally had match recently when two survivors disconnected, but I had unbreakable and reset build that was able to save us from snowball slug on last gen. Pls. Someone, stop this :(
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@UnicornMedal said:
I don't mind trying out your idea.
In my opinion, hatch exists primarily as an anti-bottleneck feature. When the trial slows down, we need something to tip it forward. Pre-nerf, hatch was good at doing that. Post-nerf, it's almost completely negligible.
Personally I'd like to see the old formula brought back (hatch appears when completed gens = # of remaining Survivors + 1) but make it so that it is only eligible to spawn when there are 2 Survivors left. It spawns closed just like it used to and only opens manually with a Key or automatically when 1 Survivor is left.
To me, that creates an ideal system where it functions as it should while also preventing some of the issues it had in the past. Granted, you'll still have scenarios where a duo sacrifices the solos and leaves through hatch, but I'd rather see how it plays out before pre-emptively considering that that makes it a waste to even try.
I may not personally wanting to see something close to old version of hatch, but literally made a post to see what people actually desire so every version is really welcomed and I find them valid on its own
I starting to feel, the thing that makes people keep playing DBD over and over despite frustration may be a gamble factor from this game. So I’m curious is my theory is right, and how actually this thing is in demand. And I feel hatch may be a good example of this
The issue is this gambling gonna be something you can play around or not. Now it feels redundant. Killer either slugging, or survivor bringing perks, keys and offering. And… for what reason on both sides? Artificial stats? Personal feel you did something important? Some “justice” thing, like do specific side deserves points to win over nothing or what? Me personally wasn't caring a lot about hatch on both sides and I just giving whatever should happen with it.
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@angrychuck said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014752#Comment_4014752
I don't realistically seeing anything happening about it but it's nice to put your thoughts out into the world you know. There are always going to be toxic or whatever.
Toxicity, whether it’s in the frame of the game itself or getting out of control and becoming personal feels like a main character trait of this game. Somehow I managed to get used to this and being tired at the same time.
There were times when maybe I was toxic myself. I bet I still can do sometimes. Now I try to just call myself out every time I feel this game starts to feed on my negative feelings like entity itself
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@angrychuck said:
I personally like the hatch mechanic, I just think the biggest pain with the hatch system is that sometimes it just spawns in the weirdest spot and neither you or the killer can find it. I can't count on two hands how many times I've tried to give hatch and just haven't been able to find it so I just let the survivor run around for several minutes and find it. I do think that the hatch does need to be changed in a way where it doesn't make the survivor feel like they've won, because the amount of times I've been bmed just because a surv got hatch before I could close it is silly.
Don’t really understand BMing on gates even. Maybe some tbag after really good loop play is acceptable for me and I love such cheecky survivors, they are usually have fun personality
But is it really possible to be changed? I feel people if want so would be able to find a way to taunt by everything what is possible in game if it matches their personal view of winning. Like people BMed me for ties or when last survivor was able to open a gate. I don't know is it issue of the system or people behaviour
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014698#Comment_4014698
The underlying core of the game is exactly the same, the win conditions are still the same, the game is still the same regardless of whatever twists an event puts on.
We don’t really have win conditions in this game. Just something that upping invisible MMR. Actual win conditions defined on ranked servers and comp matches.
I am try harding most of the time myself, but I don't see point doing it on events where people’s only goal usually is farm or goofing around. I mean, maybe you had a fun stomping players around, but I’m doing it when want to finish match as quickly as possible and hoping for better MMR next match. Because after having dozens of such games one day I genuinely started to hate everything and had months break. I am tunneling now in normal matches because it's an effective approach, I’m not tunnelling when I don’t need effectiveness in the match. And clearly in 99% cases you don’t need this effectiveness in events that keeping survivors afar from gens slowing their objective progression
Oh yeah I just feel I don't really “need” this win and proper play against survivor who is searching for pumpkin and probably gonna endure few seconds before first hit cause of bad positioning. Void literally hinders survivors and full of dead zones. This event according many complaints is genuinely so unfun for both sides I would prefer to get whatever people want for their challenges, doing it myself and returning playing average game
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014698#Comment_4014698
The Masquerade was ruined for me by sweats. I just wanted to goof around and take it in and I got smashed. Maybe I'll try to be a friendly killler this time just to get the Quests done.
I played no tunnel challenge during masquerade event
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014698#Comment_4014698
And this proves exactly what would happen if there was a separate ranked and Casual mode, like a lot of players ask for.
Oh gosh, even here we need to cry on off topic theme!
The only issue with ranked queue is that it can make queue time worse. It’s literally the only reason we aren’t about to see this feature. Technical one and uncertainty of demand.
Without the rank queue u are already encountering try hards in normal mode. You're completely forgetting that a ranked queue, if properly designed, would literally relocate half of the sweats to their natural habitat. It's also natural that some tryharders will remain in the normal mode, but some will leave. And it won't spawn even more sweats in normal lobbies. What absurd logic I’m genuinely tired of, but the most ridiculous thing u are decided to put it here when no one literally was asking for ranked queue -
I don’t support that massive us vs them that gathered here, but I’m truly curious why some killers/survivors try harding during events. Because they are just bad designed for this and you aren’t usually gonna encounter a good challenge on opposite side
If you are really playing for wins, go to normal mode. Let people do their quests in this halloween, it’s basically a lack of challenge when you sweating against people who aren’t even trying to outplay you
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I’m not sure I would be able to remember so many people and recognise them, but if… I think I would genuinely praise them and tell some compliments
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The last event I genuinely liked was my first 2 vs 8. That's all
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@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014415#Comment_4014415
- The interaction is fantastic, and whether you agree with my opinion or not is precisely the purpose of this post. But why not try (just for fun and without taking the discussion too seriously) creating your own tier list and sharing it? I'm curious and would also like to know what others think in general. I remind everyone that we are talking about an online game, not about wars in the world🤣
My opinion is every S tier killer doesn't really feel the difference, because they directly counterplay shift w and don't care if survivors has multiple direction to choose. And Twins, because they don't care about pallets a lot. Everyone else just generally became weaker, while M1 killers or low tier straight away just dead against decent loopers. Without a joke, my survivors teams was losing against everyone below some B only in case if someone threw an entire match. Most games is about pig having 1-2 hooks
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The whole line of “If you throw pallet you are dead” isn’t really valid. All of this killers are having no mobility, and genuinely suffer from predropping or combining loops. The only thing you shouldn’t throw it directly to their faces. DeathSlinger and Pyramidhead literally struggle more if pallet was safely predropped, especially first one. Everyone else in the list have to start to play differently. Maybe only Trickster isn’t affected that much. This killer just have general rule - you shouldn’t be in the range of their power, U always should play with LOS. And predroped pallets actually helping with this
Even me, an Executioner main, have felt the changes. If a survivor can combine tiles 50/50, the loop becomes a headache, because everything will either be pre-dropped and turned into a safe pull, or people will greed for the rest of their lives
They aren’t suffering that much compared to M1 weak killers, but they are definitely next in the listBut genuinely, I can’t even agree with half of tier list here… putting Demogorgon and Leatherface in one line with Blight is truly something
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@runningguy said:
hatch as a whole is outdated. what was once a mechanic used to prevent matches lasting forever is now a case of slug to prevent it spawning and last 2 hide hoping the other dies so someone can get a free escape without doing gens or the gate. both boring an unfun. instead of hatch it should just be egc…maybe a slightly longer one than normal so people can still do gens and actually earn the escape. at most the hatch should be sacrifice pit that the survivors can jump into, no one should be able to do 0 gens, 0 saves, dont nothing in the match then just walk out the hatch.
I still like some gambling factor in this game, so want hatch stay. It’s just interesting for me — playing who is gonna be faster, me or survivor. It doesn’t influence on MMR, it doesn’t influence on win condition, so I think hatch should stay, but changed. While wins should be reconsidered and works around team and not personal kills and escapes
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@Leonardo1ita said:
Currently, entering Lockers has the same button of vaulting pallets and windows. This leads to many situations where one cannot distinguish what to do, or spams space and then enters a locker instead of a window.
The most egregious case is the one of the window tile on Eyrie of Crows.
PLS BHVR change this on survivor.
Bring some justice for the consoles as well. I’m a pc player, but I feel so bad for guys having one button for everything lol
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014272#Comment_4014272
It could be the Entity wanting the trial to drag out to feed longer. Hope is neccessary too. It could also be a protective spell surviors learned from someone like Vigo. That wouldn't be bad as a perk.
It could be the Entity wanting the trial to drag out to feed longer
But we have 3 gen mechanic that prevents hostages… We have endgame collapse…
So even if the survivors learned spell, how exactly? After all, even boons and invocations are available to survivors somehow special in this terms, and then, out of nowhere, every survivors suddenly know a spell by default that they whisper immediately when they're unhooked...? So Mikaella or Vittorio/Taurie doesn't look special anymore, for me it's just another layer of ignorance of past lore to justify some mechanic… Like man, who cares about some potential energy when everyone has a damn ghost spell!
In fact, everything in this game can be justified by lore. Absolutely. So no, I’m not saying it's pointless. We literally have survivors healing each other with magical hands, but that's not what I'm talking about. I doubt I can be convinced of the visual validity of this mechanic, sorry. Even what I saw in the PTB didn't satisfy me; the survivors covered in some strange dust were simply disappointing. My survivor model looked simply ugly. I don't think there's any need to try to convince my personal itch here. I also don't think there's even any point in trying to justify this mechanic with lore; we all understand that it's a crutch. Necessary or not matters by vision
I've already written about this somewhere. I don't particularly approve of this mechanic. Because bodyblocking/protection hits from both the survivors and the killer are a form of interactivity and a way to play for me. I'm used to it, even if I'm playing as a survivor and understand that for some protection hit the killer will sentence me to tunneling. Sometimes I doing it purposefully, because for example I’m in better spot rather than my saviour. Because it's a game for me and I have my personal giggle for this. From a balance perspective, not giving perks that grant a tank ability for 80 seconds and also properly designed locations of the hooks on the map is already enough. And well… fixing auto aim? Maybe this as well
I also feel this collision thing will cause many, many annoying bugs. Or it will be another exploit for long term, but who knows. Again, everything here is an just a humble opinion -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014251#Comment_4014251
I think from a lore perspective it would be kinda perfect, if you give it some magical aspect to the visuals. Like the survivor has been protected by a temporary spell or something.
Meh… entity… protecting? Rather than being forced to do so… which implys something like offering and perks rather than default thing
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I don’t really want to discuss technical and logical appliance to it, because it may find their use
Just my personal issue
I don’t really like this idea from aesthetic side. I just can’t see survivors a complete ghost in the game. It was SO artificial with elusive in PTB, as well as the way how they hid UI of hooks. No matter how hard I tried to convince myself otherwise. Yes, I believe in magic healing hands even more than ghost survivors
If one day it will be added, probably I’ll be that person who wouldn’t be able to fully accept this feature. Just my personal meh
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Their sfws not that sweaty as EU’s one tho. They are preferring more safe but slow pace on both sides. So I noticed they aren't really strong in looping or chasing but their macro on both sides is generally more impressive and better than from Western
It's actually really unusual. For Europian servers u are like playing in atmosphere of short chases, short gens, on Asian one people more like fighting for resources. Of course they can easily tunnel /genrush. But in 3 vs 1 this game feels completely different compared to other regions. And their stealth is actually something. I remember I played some solo Q, and killer was always targeting me, because I was the most easiest to spot
They also really like expo, idk why, had a day when had this 3 matches in a row seeing full boon build
But ping… god sake me staying on their servers with 120 ms again
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@flashque said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013668#Comment_4013668
But my map is the same as the random map they would have drawn. It doesn't matter whether I decide which map we play or whether the game randomly decides.
It’s not the same, if you see 10th Eyrie of Crows in a day or 10th Scratched Mirror Myers on Hawkins
It was a good period of time when as soon as you aren't bringing counter map offering you literally had 50% chances getting not on really beneficial map for you. Or repetitive one
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014150#Comment_4014150
Seeing a Survivor drought on Asian servers is pretty interesting.
On my experience people there more likely playing sfw. Or prefer to hop on killer instead, at least I had such impression playing against Chinese and Japanese players
And if you are playing sfw, queue would likely being higher
Few months ago people on Asian servers preferred killer role more as well as I remember
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@ArcT said:
Literally nothing you wrote makes a single iota of sense or is even close to true. You lose collision with other survivors and the killer when you are damaged by any means. You also lose collision and your hurtbox when you use Head On. Or are slugged. Your insistence that basic mechanics throughout the game cannot exist on a technical level is absurd.
I-Frames exist without collision. Collision exists without I-frames. Not a single example I've given is a bug that BHVR doesn't have control over. Your assertation that losing collision and getting i-frames, something that happens literally every time you're damaged, is "a complete and uncontrollable mess" is nonsense. The game does not have a seizure and go into a panic state every time a character loses a health state.
Are you seriously claiming that these examples I've given are not intentional and are just an artifact of uncontrollable game bugs?
but… I frames working for really short period of time… you can’t implement the same principle for longer period, it stops being I frames then and not, you not lose collision, you are immune to damage and that's all… you aren’t really intentionally losing collision when getting a hit. It's not working like this. I frames are linked to animations so survivor and killer hit boxes wouldn't accidentally stuck in each other and lead to soft lock. So you are pushed out of killer hitbox if during a hit it was overlapped. That's why it's I frames. They are literally a matter of seconds. System you are asking for is completely different thing… At least because it's asking more than adjusting few frames. And it’ll more likely look bad and lead to many bugs, but whatever…
I don't see point to discuss it anymore, we simply speak two different languages
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@ArcT said:
You are wrong. You're so bafflingly wrong that it's hard to understand where you're even coming from. You accept the property of i frames. You accept the property of no collision. But you don't accept that an entity can have both these properties set simultaneously when moving?
"Is it technically possible to remove both stuff at the same time?"
Yes. Yes it is. Not only is it technically possible to remove both at the same time, it's already in the game. If you're hit with Bubba's Chainsaw, you lose both collision with him, and gain i-frames for a second or two so you're not instantly double-tapped. Same with Plague's Puke.
You don’t really lose collision in cases you are described. It's work of I frames only
Half of I frames cases in this game is a bug BHVR don’t really have control of, because it directly related of network inputs and engine flaws. Like pallet vacuums on chainsaw or vault killer. In this game there are two types of I frames - one that a straight game logic, and other is a complete and uncontrollable mess. And the last type makes you both lose collision and give you I frames.
I still ask you how to fulfil your wish making it fully controllable and not breaking a good half of this game or making it looks visually bad. I don't really care about what entity can/can’t give, at least because making a survivor a some kind of ghost that can ignore physical damage already sounds bs. I don't know what happened that you can't talk about this topic a little less emotionally defensive simply because there are people who don't appreciate this idea as much as you do. Like, I don't say this principle is impossible, I’m asking questions and stating I don't really appreciate this crutch, just chill, ok?
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@ArcT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013880#Comment_4013880
First, whether an object is moving or not makes zero difference. That is completely nonsensical.
Second, old Dead Hard already had duration based i-frames. It's something that was literally already programmed into the game. It's still in the game for things like Plague's red puke so you can't be double tapped by a single puke. It's is not just technically feasible, it already exists.
First, whether an object is moving or not makes zero difference. That is completely nonsensical.
Do you have experience working in Unreal Engine? Cause I’m speaking about the technical realisation of it.
I worked in Unity for a while and well, didn't find a way to cancel how the simple engine works. Not telling I’m an expert I just genuinely asking HOW. Is it technically possible to remove both stuff at the same time? Old Dead hard wasn't removing collision, you are asking for both stuff at the same time. I frames and no collision + no hit boxes is different thing if I’m not wrong
When cheaters messing with killer hitboxes or breaking collision, you can see how animations are breaking themselves and it looks weird. So I’m asking again if you are so confident how hypotheticaly implement it without it looking like bs crutch. I mean, like cheap approach that visually will just look terrible.
Edit: I found, you can do it through customizing collision per object type. But this approach just may lead to— Design clarity (I don't see how to make it intuitive, but it matters of vision, idk)
— Edge-of-Environment Bugs
— Network DesyncAnd I’m afraid all of this three are unavoidable considering that we ALREADY have this issues in this game.
Maybe, the most simple question is to design perks that don't let exploitable aggressive behaviour
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@UnicornMedal said:
This is all so intentionally obtuse to be honest.
A) We know that camping/slugging/tunneling are at their core catchup mechanics, and yet they aren't balanced for that. They're simple yet powerful tools that work with any Killer at any time on any map whether they are winning or losing.
B) We know that camping/slugging/tunneling have been complained about since the game's inception and have rarely been looked at compared to other complaints about the game. Even defensive measures against them continue to be nerfed while they remain the same.
C) We flipped the entire game on its head year 5/6 because Killers were not having fun and weren't playing the game. Yet now that Survivor is in the same spot, we get a year of proposed changes that are cancelled and/or do not benefit them.
So while we're arguing about the instances of tunneling, which are purely anecdotal like most things in the game, these core issues remain. If the problems are bad enough that not enough Survivors are willing to play and measures are being tested to outright replace them, then why can't we look at the issue without getting caught in the weeds?
It’s time to work around it and make it more balanced through mechanics, rather than just anti system that works with symptoms only. Anti system just worked on A and B which leads to C case, and BHVR will just over and over play the same game switching roles here
In such case it's simply better to find a compromise. Tunneling shouldn't be free, and it's no longer free if the team has communication and well, trying to use it for win. But solo players lack this. And powerful killers, with increased gen rush, are becoming more in demand. I don't know why BHVR finds it satisfying to think that, despite solo q being the largest part of the community, they are forced to deal with major injustices that are literally solved by adequate communication tools with SBMM. Like 9 years of the game, giving some kind of kindred and showing that tunnelled person has DS or full anti face camp already can improve experience
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@ArcT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013767#Comment_4013767
This is hardly an insurmountable problem. Also remove the survivor's hitbox with Elusive, and now they can't do that. Which would be a healthy thing to do anyway with ######### like hitting immediately on unhook or the really egregious BS like Original Pain Pinhead instantly removing Endurance. Would also help against inescable crap like hooks that spawn with narrow chokes that the killer can just body block/force a non-fast vault (ie bypass Endurance for a grab) or lock with a trap since BHVR seems unwilling or unable to fix maps.
The worst abuse I can think of would be running inside a survivor and then dropping a pallet to ensure they win a 50/50 at it, but even that's an easy fix. Just do what they do for Knight and drain the Elusive timer extremely fast when you're near another survivor or interacting with something. Healing, using a totem, on the gate, etc, could all knock it out in seconds while moving away or trying to survive/hide while being tunneled makes it last for significantly longer.
I’m not sure is it really possible to remove both hitbox and collision completely in technical terms, because survivors are moving and not static objects
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@WeirdHexButOk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013756#Comment_4013756
What's a stat tracker? I'm assuming you're talking about the end game score board, which also shows all player perks. If so, you would know that the killer's loadout is hidden until all survivors (including bots) are dead or sacrificed, it doesn't reveal the killer's loadout if ALL FOUR survivors DC; and that's what I have an issue with.
Deducing the killer's loadout is a huge aspect of the game, and it is required to come up with a counterattack as survivor. That being said, I can't tell you how many times I've kept a mental track of what perks and add-ons the killer is using, only to reach the stat tracker surprised that the killer did not have a specific perk equipped despite demonstrating their ability to use it during a match. I've been playing this game for almost 5 years; I've reported dozens of blatant cheaters and almost every single one has been banned. My main issue is that I don't want to waste the developer's time by filing tons of erroneous reports; therefore, displaying the killer's loadout once ALL FOUR survivors disconnect would help prevent wrongful accusations.
I can't help but notice you completely avoided my argument revolving around subtle cheating killers. You can't just pretend like subtle cheating is non-existent, it has been a persistent issue with this game ever since BHVR decided to make DBD free for a day. I'm sorry, but your response sounds like a lazy excuse to avoid catching and reporting subtle cheaters to me. At the end of the day, I am only looking to improve the game and make it fun and fair for everyone.
As I know you still can see loadout of killer in match on dbd stats as soon as match is over
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@Cassiopeiae said:
I really don't understand why they changed the duration when all they need to do to avoid agressive use is to remove collision while the effect is active.
Not here to defend anything but PTB showed their elusive with removing collision doesn't work
If starting from the most innocent - people dropped pallets and bodyblocked by other ways
If starting from the most aggressive - it’s no collision here, but hitbox stays. So you can run through killer, put yourself in the model of your teammate and simply mess with hitbox there in chase.
You still can take hits going through, they can’t make you a complete ghost. So elusive status never was created with consideration to prevent aggressive altruism. It was for preventing killer to bodyblock survivors.
40 sec is still really a lot. If killer seriously waiting for your otr to run out, he is playing really bad. And if you are doing nothing within 80 sec just to save your otr instead of finally being healed or sitting on gen just because afraid of losing it, it’s you playing poorly. The main point of otr is making you an unattractive for tunneling because of waiting the time, and this is still working
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I’ll say it 10 times more I’m glad I stopped supporting them financially since ghoul chapter.
Because I can’t see myself spending even a penny on this anymore -
@dbd900bach said:
He got an add-on rework and some good changes a little bit ago and I recall there being some concern for him being a bit overtuned in terms of tunneling.
And there's been nothing. Absolutely nothing in regards to Pyramid Head for a good while. Is he strong? Weaker? Too oppressive? A tunneling nightmare? There is no complaint or praise so I'm curious as to what happened?
Because indeed nothing big happened about him. And not really a lot of people enjoy playing him despite addon rework, maybe because no mobility not in demand.
He was slightly buffed by specific add-ons that can provide optional strength and was nerfed by other terms. I made post about this really long time ago.
For me personally? He might be stronger for new players on him if they bring add-ons, just because from the start it is not completely easy to make some M2. If playing without add-ons - he is ten times weaker, because no cheesy zoning here anymore. For his mains he has big issue now with shift w counterplay, prerun and predrop is not something he can counter with being 4.2 in charged mode. Some gen tap and baiting is more easier to play now, so this killer low-key have to tunnel even more because lack of time.
He still can relatively easy tunnel, but low mobility provides counterplay + base kit endurance now and increased anti camp doesn't make it free. In my like 100 matches I was able to proxycam cage only once and used it for my advantage. The worst mistakes I’ve seen is really late rescues against him both on hook and cages
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@flashque said:
Those who didn’t like that players were placing cards they considered “unfavorable” for one of the sides could make an offering to cancel those cards — and that was fair. But now, there’s simply no point in making offerings for cards, because they really don’t work. A 20% chance is an absurdly low probability that, in practice, seems to not work at all. After 10 offerings, I haven’t received the card I placed even once. If the developers leave things as they are, it would honestly make more sense to just remove these offerings altogether, so they don’t clutter up the web
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013342#Comment_4013342
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013347#Comment_4013347
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013355#Comment_4013355
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013357#Comment_4013357
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013371#Comment_4013371
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013374#Comment_4013374
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013375#Comment_4013375
Uhm, I assume by cards you means map. Ok.
Personally, I've never had anything against offerings. But there's nothing fair about them. You're simply putting other players in a position of deciding the conditions under which the game will be played. And counter offerings don't make a lot of sense. No one here is saying that the current state of map offerings is okay—people simply feel that things weren't much better before
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That’s really nice you still genuinely enjoying this game :>
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013593#Comment_4013593
No, its more if BHVR does something they have a reason to do it. And if a person has the opinion that a thing that BHVR is changing is bad, then they have a point that is IS bad. Because even the developer is doing something about it.
Simple as: If BHVR thinks something need changing, it probably does.
No, its more if BHVR does something they have a reason to do it.
I’ll repeat again - so if they created more strong tier killers that takes no skill, easy to abuse, so they needed to do this?
I’ll still wait for hearing something more decent.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013588#Comment_4013588
No mine is better because BHVR already made it.
So yeah, 100% BHVR is already convinced that is where they need to focus their energy.So if BHVR did something - someone position is right?
So if Krasue exist and was buffed, someone’s opinion that killer design should look like this is right? Hmm… I see where they put their focus and energy on
Sounds… interesting. Maybe something more decent as argument would be better, nuh?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013570#Comment_4013570
My position you can’t and shouldn't remove tunnel completely. My position it’s time for BHVR to accept people want to tunnel or have to tunnel, and finally think through a full-fledged game mechanics around this to make it less random and more fair. Not crutches, not punishments, not incentives.
Sure, now you submitted that. lets hope it convinces BHVR, that it is the best solution.
So yours is the better one while the only argument behind it is some emotional sentiment?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013515#Comment_4013515
The vast majority of Killers are already doing that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013516#Comment_4013516
BHVR has been testing that PTB so long, if they are happy with it then its not unplayable for me.
If there is a major problem, then that problem can be addressed later in that version of the game.Yes, that IS the grown up solution. Deal with it.
If you have a better solution, then you better give it out soon, because my money is on this that PTB coming back and hopefully will we have a mass pro-tunneler exodus, but that dont bother me cause Im a Killer main myself. Faster queue time for me, byebye. Why would I morn the loss of tunnelers????
Yes, that IS the grown up solution. Deal with it.
What’s making your desires a grown up decision?
If you have a better solution, then you better give it out soon
I told about this many times before on this forum and even post above. If you can’t read whole text and analyze it fully, I don't see any point in playing silly games here repeating stuff that will be missed anyway.
My position you can’t and shouldn't remove tunnel completely. My position it’s time for BHVR to accept people want to tunnel or have to tunnel, and finally think through a full-fledged game mechanics around this to make it less random and more fair. Not crutches, not punishments, not incentives. A whole game system that covers the simple fact people doing this stuff in this game. Like simply stop fighting with damn logic here and accept that some stuff like this or sfw exist. They aren't supposed to be fun for other side. As everything that helps you to win for your opponent aren't supposed to give them fun time.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013507#Comment_4013507
If you think its interesting I guess, if the vast vast majority of players REFUSED to participate in looping then that part of the game could very likely have been removed from the game. To me that's just Ironclad reality, that or the game would have failed.
However that isnt the reality we are in, we are in the:
the vast majority of players refuse to participate in Tunneling so its getting removed - realityPersonally yeah, I was on your side, you can find posts about me making suggestions to make it easier for Survivors to understand when tunneling happens and fight back on it. But I dont think that is the path that you can easily squeeze new players through and BHVR has not given any suggestion in that way so im siding with BHVR on that one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013509#Comment_4013509
So… “nothing” is base kit BT, no hook grabs, anti face camp, additional +10 sec to hook times, +10 altruistic perks for helping teammates when they are getting tunneled?
Do you know what "in the past" means, Survivors first got basekit BT 3 years ago.
Yeah, for the vast majority of this game's life time tunneling has basically just run around unchained.You just want this anti-tunnel to be absolutely free over emotional whimsy,
Duh, yes, that sounds great. No more games where the Killer tunnels one person out. SIGN ME UP.
Duh, yes, that sounds great. No more games where the Killer tunnels one person out. SIGN ME UP.
So your statement is - “remove something completely no matter how it will affect the game and other players, just because I can’t emotionally overcome frustration of losing too quickly.”
Sound as fair, grown up and wise position. No point to argue with it, because it's emotions. I can’t argue with people over things they want/don’t want, because it's as meaningless and unnecessary as beating the air. You have right for this position, that's all. But you don't have a right to claim at as unanimously truthfull one
@ABAEX said:
Tunneling to killer is:
Identify the weaknesses in the survivors team.
if you are poor to loop, you will be tunnel.
if you good that you Very difficult to hang on the hook, you will not be tunnel.
survivor be tunnel is survivor's fault, but it is the inevitable path to the killer's victory.
You need to know that no matter the survivor's looping skill level, it takes them 90 seconds to repair a generator.
anti-tunnel is a transfer of responsibility.
Matters that originally required the survivor's judgment and actions are canceled; the survivor neither needs to make judgments nor cooperate.
anti-tunnel is a transfer of responsibility.
It’s what this person want, apparently
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013490#Comment_4013490
You are thinking about this the wrong way around, If tunneling was not an issue and no players could possibly be proven in statistics tp have quit over it, then why would BHVR do anything about it? BHVR's response in the past was to do nothing about it.
My own logic is clear: If BHVR says they want to do something about it, its probably worth doing something about.
They have other things to do, so why do it? for fun? for no reason?https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013491#Comment_4013491
BHVR constantly thinks things are problems when they aren't,
Problem is you cant prove this, you don't know what the stats show. You dont know what the results of the Surveys are do you?
I rather believe BHVR knows what they are doing, rather than you know better than the developers.
BHVR has made a great game I have enjoyed for 8 years, What have you made? nothing???https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013493#Comment_4013493
This is so flawed, im sure if tunneling was as much part of the game as looping was then people would have adjusted to it better. But they have not and now we are here when its way way better to do something about it than not.
BHVR's response in the past was to do nothing about it.
So… “nothing” is base kit BT, no hook grabs, anti face camp, additional +10 sec to hook times, +10 altruistic perks for helping teammates when they are getting tunneled?
If people massively failed to use this tools and BHVR put some S tiers as cherry on top it doesn’t cancel that they always was working addressing tunneling. You just want this anti-tunnel to be absolutely free over emotional whimsy, that's all.
Watch streams from three years ago from some comp players who would come to pubs and tunnel players for their streaks. Back then, it was a real tunnel, and its aggression doesn't even come close to what we have now. So, you're the only one wrong here, thinking that BHVR never worked on this. There's simply a difference between balancing a tunnel and removing it completely. Of course, if you blindly believe that this is an uncounterable op strat, nothing will change for you in the long run. But that's a matter of vision -
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013483#Comment_4013483
You are right, WE dont have statistics. And for the Survey, I dont think they are asking for what you think they are here, likely only the active player base. But BHVR does have the statistics and given the response to tunneling they rolled out, I would say its likely alarming. If the game designers realize they need to do something about it then what really is there to consider for us?
What does it take for you to consider there might be a problem with doing something about in Dead by Daylight?
For me:
All it takes is for BHVR to want to do something about it then its very likely a problem big enough to be worth doing something about.What do you need to think its worth doing something about?
But BHVR does have the statistics and given the response to tunneling they rolled out, I would say its likely alarming.
Are u sure? Because question of tunnelling always existed in community. Some decisive strike existed since the first licensed chapter. It's not something that suddenly appeared and spreaded as a disease. It's just that there used to be broken perks and map spawns that, even if a killer tunneled, could give survivors a free exit. That's gone now. To outplay a tunnel, you need to work as a team, and solo q lacks tool of that, especially in a period where literally every other match is against an S-tier killer. It's not “killer hard tunnel way more often”. It's “ Every match is S tier one that can tunnel you without any struggles”
They're trying to fight with consequences rather than actual cause simply because, unsurprisingly, people haven't stopped tunneling after nine years. Probably because it's still the most popular way to play asymmetrical horror for most players. So it's in demand as much as anti tunnel system. And what to do in such situations if both options are in demand in the game?
And the only thing that's a negative is that some survivors don't like being eliminated from a match too quickly. It's literally a problem of emotions. Emotions in a PvP game, where you're bound to feel negative if you lose too quickly. So why does BHVR continue to play with this theme? Probably... ahem, because in recent years, BHVR has been focused solely on satisfying emotional needs, neglecting balance and the technical state of the game, because they realize they can't fix real problems, like endless bugs, poor S-tier killer design, and mediocre map design. But here's the problem when you try to play along with emotions - you get a patch where one of the most broken killers exists at the same time, as well as a pallet density update that negatively affected most killers. No one was happy overall, lol
You can agree with this, or you can disagree. As long as the competitive portion of DBD shows that even S-killers are unable to compete with a group of survivors without an aggressive tunnel as soon as they have comms and some sence of skill, people will believe that the tunnel option should remain in this game.
And again, IMO, the only way to make this element less frustrating is to revise the win/lose conditions, so if tunneled person guaranteed at least 2 escapes for their teammates they will be greatly rewarded. As well as provide solo survivors more autonomy and the ability to communicate well with each other. And provide a coherent SBMM, rather than trying to fight with the emotional consequences of playing asymmetrical play. You can't just remove something because it's not fun. If it leads to another balance crash and turns the game into even more technically challenging, even more so.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013409#Comment_4013409
Personally Im way way way more likely to quit playing Survivor from tunneling over a useless team-mate.
I think the problem with that is those two diffrent kinds of problems, is that only tunneling gives you way more likely ensurance that the game is over the moment it happens. While 1 team member hiding and not doing gens, nobody knows for sure this is a problem until the game is almost finished and by then you are already out of the game and you had to have meaningful play.
This is why tunneling is way way way way worse, even if it does not happen as often.
What BHVR is likely looking out for this what was asked in the Survey,
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7R1Q2E7SCK9A/image.png
If people are quitting over tunneling in masses, then it does not really matter if it happens like 2/10. its a problem
If we assume tunneling can happen 2 in 10 and we allow 10% risk of a player quitting for good on every tunneling event, then if we are 50 000 players playing this with 10 games each every day. then we are out of Survivors in 20 days.But the problem is that one leak of players feed into other problems, like if the Queue takes too long I might play something else.
Are people quitting massively directly because of the tunnel issue, or a combination of different problems within the game?
In the case of four of my acquaintances, they left for completely different reasons, for example. Greed, bugs, technical issues, lack of challenge, community sentiment. We don't have statistics that directly support specific position. You can only try to stretch the truth to any emotional statement that suits you, and to any sane person this would seem like a very weak argument.
I also find this survey question incredibly ridiculous. Asking why you don't play the game when the survey itself is only available if you play the game or follow the media is absurd, pardon me.Especially when the list excludes options for another side.This questionnaire is not capable of facilitating productive research.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013382#Comment_4013382
Please. It does not happen that often. I can go dozens of games without seeing hard tunneling. You can watch any survivor main stream and see it doesn't happen that often. The sample size is way greater than "personal experience". After a certain point people are either lying or grossly exaggerating.
https://youtu.be/HI7FFpVpgRY?si=7A5KPyjPjxXRiCPG
Nobody can ever substantiate these claims. They just say it happens "every game" and gnash their teeth. Anybody that says this: message me. We can duo queue. If we see hard tunneling in like ten games I'll get you a steam game of your choice up to 40$. Prove it.
I started to encounter hard tunneling time to time more frequent this patch, but it also may happen just because my MMR went slightly higher. Yet still, killers don’t hard tunnel every match and even if tunneling happens, killer rotates with additional hook on other survivor as well
Maybe I have do something similar with my killer challenge but for survivor, and record 100 games with way how often tunnelling and under what circumstances happens
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I was fine with removing map offering. I’m not fine with them still existing in blood web being trash + that they artificially increased chances to play on the worst maps possible
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013343#Comment_4013343
It was like 1/4 of the map. There was nothing behind me either.
I encountered issue with hooks that aren't able to be used/or bodyblock the way to loop much more frequent than this one you posted here. So I’m genuinely impressed such thing exist in this game
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013293#Comment_4013293
I mentioned the 3-gen on Dead Sands in my more detailed breakdown of every map.
It is definitely killer sided by design, but the reason I said it was almost balanced, is because it only needs a few small tweaks to become more balanced. Like the removal of the unsafe tile near the 3-gen in the top part, and better gen-spread would go a long way in making it an actual balanced map.
Also, I didn't want to make too many different categories in the image 😅And yes, the pallet density update definitely affected the maps negatively.
Here was my ranking before the 9.2.0 update, as a comparison:https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X1NYSD4ZCZSE/my-image-287-29.png
In my own reality, positions around the generator should never be completely safe and only one, maybe two generators on map should be around strong tiles, so you can give a repair there on last minutes of the match when run out of sources or when survivors who are death on hook need to work on gens, but in more safe position. I think Saloon might be a good example of such gen placement.
This prevents unconditional greed and doesn't make the main objective free. But the same applies to the killer—their 3rd gen shouldn't be free, and they must spend time wasting resources of survivors and protecting these same generators simultaneously. Like 3gens design on Toba Landing for example. Otherwise, we're simply gambling.
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I think it might be fine giving them +2 charges (so 4 charges in total or 3 charges with iri add-on) but heavily increase lack of opacity. So visibility in the fog will disappear in principle for few seconds
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I really can't agree with many positions here. Like Dead Sand with shack in middle and zero main is actually pretty killer sided map, because always spawn the most ridiculous 3-4 gen you could ever see.
Coal Tower on Macmillan still pretty balanced despite pallet density update, because of the size of the maps. And there is literally the only one Macmillan map they considered to nerf some god fillers.
Forgotten Ruins will be killer sided only in one case - if killer would camp someone in main. If on the start killer lose 3 gen on surface/basement and survivors know how to abuse portals this map isn’t giving killer any favors at all. Especially after pallet density update.
RPD is definitely not slightly survivor sided… Maybe East one, but West is one of the most broken maps ever. Despite 2 gen in main, yes.
Balance of maps like Lery, Midwich and Hawkins really depends on what kind of killer you are playing.
That's all IMO of course, I’m not trying to push my opinion as anonymously true. But half of the maps in the state we got it now can’t be defined one sidely survivor/killer sided. Because RGN, including gen positions and what kind of killer gonna matter a lot for pushing map to specific side favor.The pallet density update just wasn't healthy decision, except for Borgo and Haddonfield. Many maps, at least for me, just a definition of randomness. There is no consistency now, except indoor maps and some Saloon
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This game gonna be an example for life services of how fast food approach to the content sooner or later will lead a game to an unstable mess with weak potential. Not every game is Fortnite, yk.
The only one reason this game is alive is Lack of competition. Identity V and the upcoming Carnival Hunt are way too competitive in the assym-horror genre. TCM or Friday the 13th are examples of being held hostage to a single brand identity that's going out of fashion. This is the only reason why DBD survives and still has a high online.
DBD had something that can be called “golden middle” . The provided both original and licensed content. Original concept and popular trend. It has diversified both the casual and competitive community. Different regions. Different approaches.
But fast pace leads to cheaper, more monotonous content. Recycled material is an attempt to conserve resources. This inevitably impacts quality.We all know why they were looking for employees who knew how to use AI. They're trying to speed up their production.
I'll just stay to see where such greed will lead this game. -
Even if they will play this game, what do you really expect? I’m not really criticizing this desire, just curious how exactly do you see this?
Them playing with each other? Some random match or with content creators?