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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019152#Comment_4019152
I kind of love that that's where we're going now. Everyone in the world has to adjust their playstyle to that of one region that's figured out how to get through this mess rather than the developer taking adequate measures to address the mess itself. And if you don't, then you're not trying. At what point is DBD just a game anymore?
I mean, you are asking for adjusting play style to your own prefences, so this is kinda silly argument here about forcing everyone to play like specific region. The question above was in the way how people can play in response of killer player behaviour.
And Asian players aren’t that strong in terms of looping and not that sweaty, as people love to stereotype. Just absence of excessive altruism, general stealth and team responsibility as being a trait of people behaviour, to counter other kind of people behaviour in this game
The question wasn’t in how you can play. The question was in about how “fix” killer player behaviour by suggesting. And answer was in using survivor behaviour, not changing mechanics or sth.
This region just showed its not that hard to give killers average rate of 56% killrate even in such state, and that it’s all about BOTH sides behaviour, not only killer one in terms of tunneling. -
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019018#Comment_4019018
change play style… play more stealthy, less altruistic, stop unhooking in front of killers face making tunneling easier, do gens, loop better so its less appealing to be tunneled, use perks…there are many ways to counter tunneling.
So basically my experience playing on Asian servers
No wonder why killers there have lower killrate and survivors escape more
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019052#Comment_4019052
See, thats exactly whats wrong with downvotes, they're misused by alot of people, mainly those who don't ever engage in conversations, they just spam votes without providing any actual feedback or progress to the discussion. And thats exactly why votes should not be anonymous, cus goofs like that person exist and misuse the feature. They should be known so people can ignore and disregard their vote, meaning if they want to be considered, they actually have to speak instead of just assuming they're all knowing.
I think people who downvoting someone consistently in one way or another had some convo with person before. So it's more about people still showing their disagreement /frustration with your overall position about the game, but they understand you unlikely would change it ever
More of the half discussions in this game is never about finding common sharepoint and mutual agreement, so I’m not surprised
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018994#Comment_4018994
Some cornball downvoted this man's genuine question. I just watched it through a reacting YouTuber, I think its ended now, but it's gonna take time to upload into a past stream video
Who cares tbh, I know I probably pissed of some people on this forum so let them do whatever they want if it helps them to cope. I get used to -1 almost on every of my post xd
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018994#Comment_4018994
stream is still live. they’ll most likely have a VOD since the stream actually went pretty good.
Have to watch it later myself then. Literally two opposite sides posts on this forum. Both sides disappointed. Myself just feel controversial but anyway I understand why
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Do they already have VOD of the stream of its gonna be later?
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@Mr_K said:
There are long standing bugs for many elements in this game. For any of them to be fixed is a miracle someone did something besides making new cosmetics.
It's not uncommon for the Devs to say one thing years ago and say the exact opposite today. A bug yesterday is a feature today. An affect written in plan English is said to be a bug and is "fixed". This is what you can expect from DBD.
I remember how they flighted with his flicks. That's just disappointing that they do like this because can’t make it stable
Still don't understand why we call a bug a logic thing in the game, especially when it exist in game longer than “fixed version”. Even in case with Plague stun - it was rational and consistent. Sometimes the only thing you need is just stop calling mechanic changes a bug fix, I assume
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018852#Comment_4018852
You'll have to forgive my lack of evidence, I don't have any footage and can only speak from my own gameplay, but I've played him quite a lot and have done consistently since his release and I distinctly remember a period - after they fixed the first time - where it was fine, and then it broke again, and now they've fixed it again. I can't give you a timeframe, my memory is shot, so all I have is my word and reputation.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018815#Comment_4018815
I agree, honestly, they should at least put it somewhere higher in the patch notes, because people who haven't been around for too long won't know that it's unintended and think it's a shadownerf. But this one specifically doesn't feel like a nerf - to me, anyway - because I knew it was a bug that would eventually be fixed. Time and time again the message "cages are not hooks" were said, and they weren't intended to give hook perks or noise notifications on the PTB, but likewise if someone's started playing in the last 2 years then they won't know this.
It wasn't handled amazingly, agreed, but there was a period where it was fixed and working as intended. That I am sure of.
You'll have to forgive my lack of evidence, I don't have any footage and can only speak from my
owngameplay, but I've played him quite a lot and have done consistently since his release and I distinctly remember a period - after they fixed the first time - where it was fine, and then it broke again, and now they've fixed it again. I can't give you a timeframe, my memory is shot, so all I have is my word and reputation.
As much as I main him, and as much I watched for videos from his mains… If we call “fixing” a feature that was considered as change from his release, than it was returned back, and existed for many years, is it an actual issue? Especially when they already adjusted the problem that uncaged survivor can be instadown.
Devs can leave it as it is ofc. People will just use his actual power less again. This killer already having an issue many people were simply using m2 for zoning rather than hits, and were using torment just for Mori, and now they doing this again.
I edited my previous comment why I find this as an issue. So, just hope devs would try to read this at least :/ I already got used that they are consistently making unnoticeable changes to his power that greatly affecting gameplay, yet just to wait another month for this to be returned back. When his actual bugs are left barely fixed
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
In all fairness, it was a bug. It's a bug that's existed for a year and a half, maybe two years at this point, but I distinctly remember it not being a thing on his release. I feel like people have gotten used to it being there given how long it's existed but it was a bug. There's many instances where you can argue shadow nerf over bugfix - like Plague pointed out earlier in this thread - but I don't think this applies
Do really? Because I’ve seen this feature on videos that was 5 years ago. The same year of his release
And even in case it was a bug - why it was so consistent? While he has other bugs, more inconsistent, like literally showing aura of survivors after uncaging or long instinct/invisible trails that actually breaking fairness of his power. This is something that appeared recently and is really frustrated.
I don’t want to exploit these bugs now just to get basic knowledge about what happening on map, while other killers have it by default. Considering that cage can be directly send to other places, it can be 50/50, and happen literally to the position of other teammate who working on important gens. He already got BT, stronger anti camp, and he sacrifice cancelling of survivors perks by being unable to use a lot of meta as well. Be doesn't have mobility or map control tools.
As his main, I don't ask to remove BT or sth. Just return feature that is really important for gameplay and was here for 5 years. People who consciously looking for tunnel will spend their time to find a cage and proxycamp anyway. I simply can't allow chase in other corner of the map because can’t be sure cage was sent in area I don't need to control, and two survivors have to be there until some heal
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I just want to get answer. I get why it was implemented in anti tunnel ptb. Here? It’s just a picky thing. And his actual issues wasn’t fixed. I mean, bug on Lerry is still a thing. Random trail of torments and even invisible one as well. I just want reasonable clarification and that they will address his actual issues as well. Maybe some info compensation in his base kit
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
I think its missleading.
Often you could hear his Cage Sound while nobody was caged at all.
I played a match. You don’t really get notifications anymore. The sound of cage can happen in cases of when killer is too close to already existing one and it transfer position
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I played against him few times after buff, but players still struggled, so even can’t try to realise how oppressive to play against him can be
But yes, it seems they created another pallet eater like booba. Yet he doesn't have mobility, so prerun is still working fine
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The contrast is indeed crazy, when you play survivor. On killer I can get middle lobbies, but survivor…
Just as an example of my first games after break:
1st game - Basement booba, one escape through gate
2nd game — FP Legion. 4 escapes
3rd game — Myers on Lerry. Attempts to tunnel. 4 escapes.
4th game — Hardtunneled Ghoul, 3 escapes
5th game — p100 FP Xeno. 1 escape (hatch gift)
6th game — hard tunnel p80 Blight. 4 kills
7th game — FP Springtrap, 4 escapes.
Matchmaking just a mess and full of contrast, but these games is allowing experiments with builds I assume. Don’t really feel I need full package of meta with DS, windows, resurgence and sprint burst.
P.S. Just slight off topic, but maybe someone would try this counter snowball build as well. It's hard for killer to slug or find vulnerable survivors on death hook with it and involve stealth requirement, so strongly recommend if you aren't actively looking for chase and looking for other. Styptic is the god thing for endgame escapes
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I can’t find killer with ton of bugs balanced. Maybe he is fun for me, but balanced implying predictable power for me, mid/high skill floor and same ceiling. Wesker lacks of predictability a lot. Not like Nurse because her power works like this. Just because this game is meh
But personally for me players never spoiled impression on killer itself. Sure, some stereotypes like tunnelling Blight/Nemesis/phead or casual Springtrap/Ghoul, slugging Oni/Twins is applicable, but even if player against me following this stereotype, it still doesn't touch my personal impression on player. It's a game, I kinda can make a difference. People play how they want, until it’s not BMing and DCing or not having strong expectations for others I find it tolerable
People playstyle doesn't bother me until it's my teammates throwing the match by some move. But even there I don’t really judge a lot. Meg is just Meg, Kate is just Kate, Sable just Sable, so I don’t support bias. Maybe build bias only, because killers meta is so limited and I can smell this damn bbq on Blight or iri remote on Sadako
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018593#Comment_4018593
Interesting pick- what makes you say Oni in particular?
Build up power that actually strong. You don’t have strong ability from the start, you have to earn it. First chase on him is crucial, and I enjoy to play against him as survivor. He also emphasis what I actually enjoy in this game as survivor - macro play. Split up and carefulness, and he can’t actually slug that much as people in lobbies usually depict him. And you can kinda loop his ability until killer on him didn't master flicks and camera rotation. For me he is the middle of casualty and competitive, where I also find myself.
So… in terms of interaction, if players from both sides on same level of understanding this game and killer itself, he provides both challenge and enjoyment for me
For me balanced killers are either having build up kinda power or strong chase but bad map pressure, however emphasising it's control. I don't really enjoy killers with free mobility, beside Billy and Onryo, because for me it usually does the half of map pressure instead of player. But if mobility provided with specific conditions, I might find it “balanced” in my terms
I would say phead, but since they removed notifications for cages for some reason, he doesn't have any info like normal killer which is ridiculous for me considering his absence of mobility lol. And I know I have huge bias for him by maining, so provided other examples
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Oni
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018376#Comment_4018376
Are u sure they trying, or not trying to indulge two opposite sentiments in this game and that’s the reason why this game have issues?
If I didn't believe BHVR could handle this game and Improve the game, then I would have left it a long time ago.
Otherwise this conversation is running in circles now, I already said I don't want Killers handicapped. And you believe I am conspiring against competitive players. There is no way I can disprove that. There is also no contradiction in arguing for people's enjoyment, because it isn't enjoyment to take joy in someone's unenjoyment that would be schadenfreude.
Are we playing PvP assym horror, genuinely believing you can satisfy both drastic sentiments fully…?
Wouldn't try to continue then
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I don’t really personally care about downvotes and upvotes a lot, as well as in Reddit, X, all these media are considering really specific and narrow audiences, and there aren’t actually showing whole community
But that's simply true many people would use it as arguement that they are right. If you suggesting downvoted to go, it would be reasonable to remove upvotes as well. And I think many people might be upset to lose it.
If people reading some nonesence you aren't agree with and it is not worthy discussion from your opinion, just not commenting this post may be kinda enough. If post dies quickly, than its not in demand
For me personally the forums are always a place of engaging and news. If they don't want to engage in discussion, maybe no point to express opinion as well, because people might simply don’t understand your actual position
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018360#Comment_4018360
Then why you use argument about everybody joy,
Cause you argued that we should not care about other people's enjoyment of the game. Remember that?
Why player should prioritize your fun? What you did for this? Did you pay him so he has to play as same way as you? Are you friends? Are u playing in one team? Why in PvP opponent should provide fun, especially if they use meta and you aren't? You appeal to fairness — every player has the same tools and freedom in this game. You can handicapp yourself, don’t expect others to do so just because and don’t expect game doing this.
And creating polls with highly focus on only these people?
I already answered this, there is no point in asking people who dont quit over tunneling, how much tunneling makes them quit.
I still don’t understand why you trying to pull everyone joy arguemt here and present your opinion as highly considerated one.
It is a fact that people have quit the game over tunneling, so considering that is more considerate than not considering them.
It’s fine considering addressing position of tunneling and how it looks in the game, me myself wanting some changes around it, but asking completely handiccaping and preventing other people behaviour using “enjoyment” arguement doesn’t looks like well builded discussion, yet you try to present it like this.
If that is your position, then you should try to argue that instead of arguing we should not care about other people's enjoyment.
Im not a mindreader, if you argue against other people's enjoyment Im gonna conclude you believe we should not.Im also against handiccaping Killers.
Maybe we should stop focusing on way of play and consider actual mechanics, because as soon as we touch this topic, it always will be “us” > “them”. And trying to defend some “majority” always push discussion to fighting for imaginative numbers and myths trying to present personal bias as best one.
I still believe the reason BHVR is trying to fix tunneling is because the vast majority dont want it.
But yes, having a productive conversation about what mechanics should be would be better. But if we disagree on tunneling being an issue, how constructive can it really be?I still believe the reason BHVR is trying to fix tunneling is because the vast majority dont want it.
So they also create easier killers, adding hook stages, and doing controversial changes
Are u sure they trying, or not trying to indulge two opposite sentiments in this game and that’s the reason why this game have issues?
If that is your position, then you should try to argue that instead of arguing we should not care about other people's enjoyment.
Im not a mindreader, if you argue against other people's enjoyment Im gonna conclude you believe we should not.
I argued it. That you can’t simply care about everyone, and indulging one player desire, you harming other side. You can say ten times ‘I’m not asking for handicapping’, yet your suggestion is exactly that. And you aren’t arguing your position as well. Because you contradict yourself about caring people enjoyment, when what you asking for wasn’t accepted by community considering PTB feedback. You care about enjoyment of specific people only, and not everyone, yet still try to present it otherwise.
It is a fact that people have quit the game over tunneling, so considering that is more considerate than not considering them.
Do you have actual stats? All of my friends quit for other reasons. Yet I don’t claim the people massively quitting over same as you. DCing happen even when killer not tunneling and for many other reasons.Online this year on it’s highest point, It's a sham that people are leaving en masse. Not you, not BHVR, didn’t provide stats for supporting your position. You also don’t have researchs that suddenly removing highly popular people game style won’t provoke opposite effect of what you imagining in terms of “everybody joy”
My point isn’t that you shouldn’t care about specific position. Is that you can’t argue its need when the only you have is “joy”, and it makes it looks weak and tribalistic. So I’m asking provide something else beside blatant enjoyment. Otherwise this is a dialogue of preferences over actual integrity -
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018354#Comment_4018354
The poll is about the players who stop playing over tunneling, what level tunneling affects that.
This isnt a poll about if tunneling is bad or good, If you think tunneling is good and cool game mechanic I can understand why you feel left out of this poll, but it simply does not apply to you. Thats why I created the no option to give an option for those players.Then why you use argument about everybody joy, when asking a change specifically for one group of players that skew other? And creating polls with highly focus on only these people?
Firstly I just answered on your post, u started to put comp tag and “idk how to share it”, using everything to bellitle different view. As much as in poll, as much as on your arguements, you focusing on one side only, so I still don’t understand why you trying to pull everyone joy arguemt here and present your opinion as highly considerated one.
It’s fine considering addressing position of tunneling and how it looks in the game, me myself wanting some changes around it, but asking completely handiccaping and preventing other people behaviour using “enjoyment” arguement doesn’t looks like well builded discussion, yet you try to present it like this. They aren’t going against game format playing like this.
Try to revert it to yourself. You playing casually - yet your casual level of play can throw the match for your teammates who tried to win. Would you find it ridiculous if they would start asking your way of play being highly punished and eliminated? Just because you make game for others unenjoyable? I had many matches like this, yet it seems I’m not running to forum demanding changing how people play the game.
Maybe we should stop focusing on way of play and consider actual mechanics, because as soon as we touch this topic, it always will be “us” > “them”. And trying to defend some “majority” always push discussion to fighting for imaginative numbers and myths trying to present personal bias as best oneThe same currently happening with pallet density changes. People prioritise what they feel over everything and biting each other unable to find a compromise
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018338#Comment_4018338
On the contrary the majority of votes have a problem with tunneling, but this is just a small sample.
I mean, considering you created poll with one option for one side, and around 6 for other bias, these results are already pretty impressive :/
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018287#Comment_4018287
Its not like your argument is good either, not caring about other people's enjoyment of the game isnt healthy long term for the game. Rather we should consider that and make changes to fix those pain points. Im sure BHVR would agree.
As you see in your own questionarrie where u created the one option for one side there are not few people who share same mindset as me. You are not in that the overwhelming majority in which you are trying to put yourself
Don’t feel whats actually wrong with my opinion here. I’m not asking fixing people behaviour to make game more enjoyable for me. If the issue how people play the game, I’m addressing myself or don’t play the game. You doing opposite stuff here, and the only excuse you still have here is some enjoyment
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So…
Playing him for that long — his chase power is completely ok. It doesn’t require “buffs” . He is really strong in 1 vs 1.
But about movement speed, 4.2 feels overwhelming in many places now. As much as survivors complain that he can spam with power, as much as his mains feels the same towards endless shift w and predrop. From both sides it rather encourage not really interactive play from both sides.
I would rather prefer him slower, as he is now, but maybe trying to increase power travel speed by 50% and make his power longer to recharge, like it was before his add-on rework. His projectile travel is really, really slow. And it was fair thing when his cooldowns and speed in charge was less harsh, rn he simply can’t keep up because has zero mobility.I thought about his trajectory trail indication remove (so survivors don’t see red glowing marks literally screaming “move”), because other killers with range power except Artist don’t have this feature. But don’t really know how op it sounds. But… maybe, if devs can make his power more applicable in open field, players would feel the less need to zone and you can make it less spammable.
But honestly, not “addressing issue” with notifications of uncaging would be already enough. I don’t know why devs enjoy making his power so unnatractive so average players ignore proper use of M2 and cages. They decided to kill his own option for map pressure, and now he is even more oblivious about survivors position rather than average killer. Why doing this for him, when he have no mobility, while teleport killers exist? I don’t knowForgotten videotape: increases punishment of the damned travel speed by 6% (was 10%)
This add-on already showed it barely makes a difference. He is viable only in combo with iri seal or cinderella box, on its own this add-on weak and extremely niche already
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018023#Comment_4018023
Why player should prioritize your fun? What you did for this? Did you pay him so he has to play as same way as you? Are you friends? Are u playing in one team? Why in PvP opponent should provide fun, especially if they use meta and you aren't? You appeal to fairness — every player has the same tools and freedom in this game. You can handicapp yourself, don’t expect others to do so just because and don’t expect game doing this.
Because I'm interested in a Dead by Daylight where everybody has fun and I think BHVR is too.
I think its valid that everybody gets to have some fun.They “ruin” it for you, because you can’t cope with their presence and win, so expect game dealing with it instead of you.
I have repeated before, I have tried many times all the advice I can find on here, reddit and youtube how to deal with tunnelers.
And I think BHVR agrees things could be changed around to make others happy.I’m telling. And maybe, if your issue is game being unfun because of presence of players who treat game differently, you should ask yourself and not BHVR. Because asking for removing tunneling, you are hinting on “addressing” only killer players sweats. Which imply heavy bias and prejudice. Nothing about a game here, you just don't like specific type of players and asking devs to help to cope with emotions.
No, its specifically tunneling that ruins it for most my survivors games. Dont have problems with someone playing in ways I can or could have done something about. So ofc I would be against tunneling, I have no issue with the players.
So you yourself admit that the issue is your inability to deal with it…
Sounds reasonable and well argued, indeed. I already told you about “everybodies fun”. You are talking about your fun only, because can’t deal with person behaviour in game. Tunneling isn’t mechanic to be changed, it’s how people play it, and it doesn’t contradict logic of the game
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018230#Comment_4018230
Don´t get me wrong I understand that games can be frustrating, tunneling, slugging etc can be annoying to deal with.
But what has happend that someone feels like he has the right to dc on the first down. Is the sole reason for I got outplayed a reason to throw the whole game?
For my experience people who actually got tunneled are more kinda just give up and let killer doing it faster rather than DC.
They have right to DC, but this is overlapping other people right having fair match. Bot can be better sometimes ofc but all of us know that it's not general true. Bots are… meh
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
It is funny to me that I get more Downvotes than upvotes since I speak for the sake of Soloque Survivors here.
It doesn´t affect the Killer that much if a Survivor dcs on the first down. He will get a 4k more likely.
SWFs won´t be affected that much either, since they play with that guy and can dc together or ask him what is wrong with him.
The problem with the dc on first down is a huge problem for Soloque and I still didnt hear a single point why it should be okay to do so.
You can´t say the Killer is tunneling or slugging or facecamping the moment you get downed first and all you do is throwing your teammates under the bus.
Nuh, as solo I’m highly supporting your opinion. DC epidemic is even worse then go next one. Can’t count how many actually ok games it spoiled. And yes, devs need to make game more enjoyable. But people who dc on 5 gen for whatever reason should wait to cool their head in the lobby
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@cogsturning said:
Three gens within a minute? So everyone on this hypothetical team has a juiced up toolbox and a gen build instead of the very common exhaustion/speed/second chance builds and medkits that I always see?
You GUARANTEE Weaving Spider's every third match? Which game are you playing? Because I see WS like evey 300 games. And when I do, I usually win.
And changes go both ways. Streetwise was a great gen perk and they reworked it into uselessness. Killers recently got the hook counter. OTR and Tenacity were nerfed. I want everyone to take aggro but if someone wants to bring a stealth build, why shouldn't they? Why does everyone want things to stay so meta and samey?
3 people on different gens each having commodious toolbox is enough for popping 3 gens within approx 1 minute. And spread out around map is possible on the start of the match
No perks for this needed. Even without toolboxes, everything it takes is 3 gens, 3 people and within 1.5 minutes
Yet it's pretty unrealistic, because few survivors able to loop that long. So more real time without any perk I find possible is 3-4 minutes if survivors had good pre stealth or killer was busy
Something like this isn't rare if you start with interesting and long chase or use killer without mobility. No, it's not time me killing them. It's the time they finished last gen in 90% cases. All of these matches either went to endgame, or finished on last gen.
As higher my level went, as more common short matches were in the game. If you don't bring slowdown, gens being popped fast aren't sth crazy if levels are relatively same.
Its not something uncommon to genrush for survivors without having dedicated build to it. When all 4 survivors able to hold relatevile long chases while others pressing M1, gen efficiency isn’t breaking the mind or hard to pull. Bad MMR just not allowing doing it a lot :/
Yet I still don't’ agree this game isn’t killer sided, as OP tried to pull. Rather no than yes. Game still can be pretty killer sided yet not satisfying for them and consisting cheesy systems for survivors. Because win conditions in this games are worthless
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017993#Comment_4017993
You seem to have three questions.
- Why should competitive players be restricted or criticized just because casual players choose not to play as intensely?
- If you’re playing casually and not aiming to win, why does facing serious players upset you?
- Isn’t the real issue the matchmaking system, not the way others choose to play?
First,
is kinda of a mute question in a thread about if people quit after tunneling, because it makes others want to play anymore.
It implies you dont care at all about how other players feel during games, ofc this is natural with online videogames cause there is no social contract. But any other gaming scenario idd say you should have interest in if other players at your table have fun.Indeed, why should casual players be forced out because competitive players ruin it?
Either way I think BHVR understands something needs to be done about it and Im glad.
Second,
Because facing serious or sweaty players isnt what idd call good fun and fair experience. I have tried many times to do something about it, but try as I might I don't recall the last time I was able to foil a tunneler. Why would I enjoy that? I dont.Third.
Maybe, if you can think of a way you can fix tunneling by making changes to mmr, then you should tell that to BHVR not me.is kinda of a mute question in a thread about if people quit after tunneling, because it makes others want to play anymore.
It implies you dont care at all about how other players feel during games, ofc this is natural with online videogames cause there is no social contract
Why player should prioritize your fun? What you did for this? Did you pay him so he has to play as same way as you? Are you friends? Are u playing in one team? Why in PvP opponent should provide fun, especially if they use meta and you aren't? You appeal to fairness — every player has the same tools and freedom in this game. You can handicapp yourself, don’t expect others to do so just because and don’t expect game doing this.
Indeed, why should casual players be forced out because competitive players ruin it?
They “ruin” it for you, because you can’t cope with their presence and win, so expect game dealing with it instead of you. Not because they breaking this game. You literally calling forced out just the way that people play differs. They don’t ask of changing core format and addressing people behaviour like you do.
This is just irrational expecting game doing a favor towards a player who pay less attention and play less amount of time, when it skews top cap. Literally, again — they playing game in the most effective play possible. You don't. It's logical you would have less fun experience because you’re more likely gonna lose.
Because facing serious or sweaty players isnt what idd call good fun and fair experience
Of course, it’s not fun, because you losing quickly. But not fair? Do they playing more serious? Yes. Do they play with meta? Yes. Do they play more? Yes. What do you expect, people making a show for you and matching your vibe and then doing everything you wish? Are they bots or sth? Fairness for you is other players matching your expectations?
Maybe, if you can think of a way you can fix tunneling by making changes to mmr, then you should tell that to BHVR not me.
I’m telling. And maybe, if your issue is game being unfun because of presence of players who treat game differently, you should ask yourself and not BHVR. Because asking for removing tunneling, you are hinting on “addressing” only killer players sweats. Which imply heavy bias and prejudice. Nothing about a game here, you just don't like specific type of players and asking devs to help to cope with emotions.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017958#Comment_4017958
What was your questions specifically?
Read post again, if you don't get it
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To be honest, some maps don’t really have issue with density. Irrational logic of spawn is more common
That's why half of survivors don’t understand how actually insane the amount of fillers like, simply because without windows ofopportunity you can’t realise your map is half dead and half god like quality
I think on every map aside of considering pallet quality or amount, game should pay attention to the logic of placement for proper connecting, as well as generators spawn
Only one, maybe two generators should be safe. Others have to take a huge risk if not prerunning. Logic of 3/4 gen placement should be reconsidered on many maps
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I mained him for really long time. He was my first license and as newbie made decent 64% KR
No anti loop, no slowdown, no mobility, and stealth being breaked down if survivor can see him.
Every other stealth killer have some kind of stuff mentioned above. He just belongs to the same place as SM
Now you can play him if only expecting oblivious kind of lobbies and some streamers who pay half attention to the chat, so can allow decent jumpscares. On its own he is decently playable on small amount of maps
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017539#Comment_4017539
I would say, the game has indulged tunnelers and tunnel enjoyers for nine years, and shredded its newcomers.
When is it others turn?https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017814#Comment_4017814
countering tunneling has to be relatively easy and approachable
That's another assumption, you already admitted to it not working every time. So we are threading the same argument again.
its these people that will end up killing the game if bhvr went along with these demands. removing a broken element which cant be countered yes i understand but removing what little tactical element the game wont go well.
You killing the game for you, not them. While that aspect has already killed the game for others.
I think its a bold thing to say in the light of how many have quit.
Can you just directly answer on questions instead of just blatantly demanding some turn? You didn't answer on my post
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The issue of fillers on this map that haystack loop ones are unmindgamable, giving vision for survivor and nothing for killer. Fixing this, and they can be solid 50/50
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017515#Comment_4017515
Idk if you are highly competitive or not, but your mindset is what Idd call competitive. My apologies if you see it different, I didn't mean to say you are something you don't think you are. I'm just describing what I see.
But other people certainly play this game casually, myself included.
So, if other people play in other way but it less intense, other should follow them and system should indulge only them? What they did in the game for it? It’s kinda logical that casual player wouldn’t be able to compete with person who living in this game or playing for win why you aren’t. If you are casual player, answer the question — why then presence of someone more aggressive player bother you from the start and spoils your mood, when you yourself aren’t chasing effective play, therefore don’t expecting win? Do you really expect people with meta and strict goal wouldn’t overthrow you and push you to the lobby within minutes instead of giving you endless second chances? What’s the point of complaints? Why other people should be restricted by playstyle if you don’t use max potential of the gameplay and why it should affect your mood? Seriously, I am myself playing casual matches in dbd as well. Memeing around, playing with friend, running nonetheless builds and trying to ridiculous stuff. And I don’t expect other side playing the same. If they aren’t matching my vibe, then it is, I’m not throwing a tantrum or trying to complain how they spoiled everything, because they wasn’t invited to my party from the start.
The only issue of not casual players existing in this game is the bad matchmaking. Nothing about the view of the game. Nothing about their way of playing, so maybe it’s worthy to stop calling a day around it and reminding hundreds of times that you are a majority. It doesn’t change the fact that you reinforce your view on the game doing nothing for this
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
BhVR temporarily disabled the hook stage for survivors in PTB, making the hooked state invisible for a period after hooking. They must genuinely believe removing rescue notifications from cages won't affect gameplay.
Such changes just encouraged proxycamp from killer even more on PTB
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017501#Comment_4017501
I don't understand why you see a Videogame like a competition.
But if that works for you fine. I just don't think everyone else sees it that way, nor is that the only way for BHVR to see it.
I don’t understand why u see a person who just prefer challenges in a game as highly competitive. I don’t spend ton of hours practicing one move and don’t play e sport.
I don’t like routinely playing the same game without good progression, not my style. For casual part of my mindset I’m playing single player and party games
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@Swampfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017505#Comment_4017505
I wasn't saying undetectable was broken i was saying how long it would last, may be wasn't trying to put Your idea down, honestly i think its a great idea
And as for "stacking on principal of grim embrace" i assume it'd be like first 4 gens give the benefits for between 15 or 30 seconds and the last gen gives a minute i think that'd be a perfect idea :)
I just love using trail of torments and sometimes have matches where survivors struggling to immediately turn it off, so having 4 minutes of undetectable isn’t something special for me
I thought this status don’t really bring value. Honestly, I don’t know why, maybe because I’m pretty anxious and it’s harder to use it against me specifically when I playing survivor
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@Swampfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017482#Comment_4017482
I feel like thats a great idea for a perk on its own but with the benefits from machine learning if that were how it worked that'd be 5 minutes in total of undetectable removing the terror radius for potentially half the game
I'd say this would make a good perk with maybe half the time/percentages, maybe even stacking and growing more punishing for survivors doing generator's to quickly but i think that would make for a better, sepearate perk on its own
I think stacking on principle of grim embrace would be the best answer, like from 15 seconds to whole minute
I don’t find undetactable somehow broken… strong killers are made with principles of being loud, big and everything else. If you pay attention it’s not hard to deal with stealth Billy
The only issue I may see is Huntress and maybe Nurse with Unknown. But Nurse breaks everything… so 10 sec should be fine
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I don’t dodge lobbies on both roles.
I never DCed on killer until it’s blatant cheater or emergency.
I never DCed as survivor until same conditions + griefing from teammates.
And I still have “filler” lobby. Just if I lose on killer more than two times, it gives me 100 hours survivor to return to my previous killrate and I find it ridiculous.
For survivor I see more killers from high top MMR - either S tier, either experienced main on the killer. I’m not surprised by p100 blight anymore
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Since me or my teammates are getting tunneled a lot, don’t really understand why it should force me to stop playing the game. It’s like if I leave the match as killer seeing 4 toolboxes and 12k hours in profile. Show just started
I leave when understand my shape is bad and I’m playing like potato, to focus on sth else. Or when this game upset me by mechanics
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Killer have responsibility on his mistakes only.
Survivors shares it. They share everything.
And because this game doesn’t teach coordination and not really providing tools for it, no wonder why survivors can’t win more until utterly broken concepts will be in their hands
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@Swampfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017287#Comment_4017287
Im sure many people do and 2/3's of the time they probably don't even get value
becasue theirs 3 gens in end game and only 1 can be effected meaning more than half the time the perk does not get value, especially if the survivors know its in play
In which the unique animation for damaging the generator blatantly gives away the perk if a survivor see's it
if the perk did not have this unique animation alone i could see this perk getting more value and use
This perk is already pretty weak and inconsistent. Just that fact people can see effect and on principle ignore doing this gen - cool, maybe
Maybe it’s worthy to remove condition of gen kick and make it working like deadlock to provide more value
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@Eareland said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017373#Comment_4017373
Okay, so I'm taking this as making the killer more unplayable. Time is very valuable in this game and when I cannot get info about survivor locations, I'm lost. I've played several matches now and this killer feels so uncomfortable to play right now, because it feels like you are not rewarded for catching a survivor. Yeah you can cage them. What next? Search for other survivors and/or wait for someone to free survivor from the cage and get no notification at all unlike you'd get when survivors are unhooking normally.
It's not always about tunneling survivor from the cage, it's about finding someone, rescued or rescuer.
It's just stupid to go check every single generator now, because you have to find someone.
Welp, I hope this isn't permanent change.
I understand this.
At least because well, his main would likely tunnel anyway. And his main already would likely know position of the cage. At least for me, I winning more 50/50 and can detect cage before rescue, so if I don’t like location, I usually just go close to resend it to more proper space, further from survivors to make them waste more time. This is probably my second usage of them rather than tunneling — just force people go to the end of the map no one need and I can focus on other survivor.
This killer already pretty niche, many people don’t want to learn his power because it’s clunky, doesn’t really work with height, too easy to dodge, relatively hard to pull. People also don’t really like playing without mobility and 0 control of the map aside from pure chase. He doesn’t have stealth, he doesn’t have anything that makes him attractive for majority, now it’s even more harder to play because you don’t even have advantage of your main power, while killers more simple provide you everything.
Now it feels they made this killer playing on hardmode just for using his power :/ I mean… I can take this challenge because I already survived era of his broken flicks and other broken stuff, but what for others?
I also using cages for the info a lot… the only thing I can advise either start to run broken pursuer and misty combo or add-on that reveal saviour position after uncaging. I don’t know will devs respond on this or not. His mains will find solution anyway, if not starting to tunnel even more on principle, thinking the next thing will be cages perks deactivation. For average person who have other main or play several killers he became less available. Not for tunneling. Just for using power
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@Eareland said:
So I read part of the latest patch notes and I noticed in-game that when survivor is rescued from the cage, you are not getting audio or visual notification anymore. Does anyone know if it's supposed to be this way? I didn't read from any older patch notes that they nerfed PH like that.
Patch notes say:
- Fixed an issue where a loud noise notification would trigger when a Survivor was rescued from The Executioner's Cage of Atonement.
Or is this some other loud noise notification they're talking about?
I was gonna write bug report, but I am not sure if this is bug or intended.
If it's intended, it doesn't make sense to me, although I know talk about anti-tunnel stuff and updates.
I mean, normal hook rescues give you notification, so why cage wouldn't, because survivors already get 10 seconds Endurance and Haste when rescued from the cage.
Anyways, I'm confused here.
Thanks you!
I don’t know why they considered this as an issue, because it always triggered audio notifications. As much as I main him, it was also a thing on Fiuyr records 3 years ago. And I’m agree - this just unreasonable thing and turns killer with tunneling mechanic having the best anti tunnel possible in his base kit. Cool story, like current hook stages bs, xd, on this point either revert it or let cages trigger hook related perks as well, or give him teleport or mobility slop.
However on his patch it was an issue that cages was triggering killer instinct for no reason. It wasn’t consistent, it was just a random stuff happening sometimes. As well as lethal pursuer + misty days provided aura read after uncaging for no reason. I don’t know why they didn’t address that issue, because killer instinct provided scream with info of specific survivor voice and aura showing are people changing directions or healing on spot. And they were pretty unstable
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I looked at his changes they did recently. Even if I still hate with all my heart what they conceptually did with his power, I can’t deny that he is much stronger than his previous version
Honestly, why we need buffing dash for him when we have pig.
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Good I decided to take small break, because using mindbreaker a lot
I already felt bad when some totems turns out to be uncleansable on Haddonfield and Hawkins, while me was running my hex build. Have to change stuff just for not spoiling match, when it’s supposed to be… game duty
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Sometimes I can listen Slipknot, but genuinely prefer hearing game only
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I thought that’s the point of the perk. Many people bring this perk for endgame
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BHVR 5 years ago - creating killer specifically for tunneling
BHVR today - “we decided to change our mind”
Haven’t played him yet, but I thought his actual bug on Sinister Grace chapter was that cages provided killer instinct with noise notification? Can it be a typo or they just decided to change him suddenly?
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For me tunneling is the first sacrificed survivor being hooked twice in a row without rotation. But also divides on different categoriesHardtunnelling - simple, only proxycamp and straight go away for hooking person three time in a row
Situational - you didn’t start match from tunneling, yet you decided to go for survivor to hook twice in a row, because he is more available for chase and it brings more advantages
Imposed - it’s more about how survivors played, aka insta unhooks, stealth from other players so u can find only one player, teammates don’t trying to take chases when it’s needed and prerunning, while their teammates who is death on hook takes all the pressure
Slugging is something more straightforward - you just didn’t pick up survivor within short period of timeHardslugging - killer refuse to hook until endgame and his build specifically working for it
Situational - killer takes an advantage of other survivor being available for chase while other is downed to create more pressure, or to avoid perks, save time or whatever happened in match
Imposed - killer can’t pick up survivor to hook, because sabo/bp/flashlight/saves and survivor actively resist to be picked up
I assume for general community tunneling means hooking survivor twice in a row and also not picking up survivor straight away for slugging
Are people using it when needed/wanted or does it straighforwardly defines toxic behaviour is other discussion. Me personally - too much scenarios too say definitely. But I won’t argue that it brings value