sulaiman
sulaiman
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To be fair, they said they were looking into key and moris, and i used an ebony mori every single time i played killer. I didn´t use my instaheals when they were changed, and i didnt want the same to happen to moris, so i used most of them up before they were changed. But since the change, i havn´t played killer at all.
So people know keys are on the line, so of course they use them, just like they used moris. There is no difference.
Your change might be easy to implement, if that is the change they are going for. If they want a different change, it might be not that easy.
You are aware that not many people run broken keys with aura addons, because they are next to useless, because the charges are burnt so fast some are almost a one-time-use.
Unlike the ds-change, i think a key change that makes them as useless as moris would change my playstyle drasticly. i would return from 100% solo survivor to an swf player again, because while i bring keys, i bring it because you cant even rely on your teammates to not dc or hooksuicide, let alone do gens if you run the killer. And i think that might happen to other solo survivors too. So i think a hurried key change might not even be beneficial to killers.
But then again, i never understood the problem with keys outside of swf. Ds, yes, stacking second chance perks, yes, swf, hell yes, but keys most often allow that one survivor to escape if he even find the hatch before the killer finds him.
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but you are aware that the mori change was just a change of some variable because the condition already exists, while the key change might just need something else? If you want to have a x second opening animation, that animation doesnt compile itself in your program code. IF you want something else, it might need some testing before it breaks something, unlike changing moris from 1 2. hookstate to 3rd hookstate.
So it only sounds biased towards survivors if you have no clue at all and don´t list when the devs answer this very question.
Also, the mori changed the game dynamic from -at best- undecided to winning, sometimes from losing to winning.
A key usualy doesnt change the outcome, because a 3k is a win just like a 4k would be. If more than 1 survivor escapes, then it wasn´t an easy escape, because the gens neede to be done just the same if 4 want to escape. Survivors with a key are just not screwed over my that random teammate dcing or hook suiciding after being tunneled and camped.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1924526#Comment_1924526
Only if the person does this or that blah blah blah I camp and tunnel.
Then Killer's wonder why people suicide on first hook, it's exactly the same.
Stupid.
I think most killers don´t care about hook suicide, because it just makes their game easier and is doing their objective for them.
Its your fellow teammates you screw over, not the killer.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1925090#Comment_1925090
Come on that's not the same, Undying is just overkill since it came out without any counterplay.
If HEX perks had no counterplay, undying would not be needed. That statement just shows a ähm. öh.."deep understanding of the game" or so...
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they just dont care. I was crouching to a hooked guy, and another just rushed in and unhooked, triggering the trap, because he wanted the unhook points. God forbid someone else who tried a safe unhook gets them.
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I usually dont use flashlight, but if i found one in a chest, i might do what you discribed, just to practice flashlight blinds in general, because i just cant do them.
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The problem is that a lot of games get ruined because half the team is trying to do a challenge exclusivly instead of doing it while playing the game. So they throw game after game instead of playing normaly. And you want that for an extended period of time?
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@Mysterynovus said:
Don't even play the game.
You can do me dirty all you want. I'm the killer, I get it. But don't do your team dirty like that.
Ähm, i think you get it wrong. If i hook suicide, i dont do it for you mr. killer. I do it because i got a ######### team that try to ruin the game on purpose. Like i destroy your hex perk, but since they want the points, they fastvault so you come over, and while you chase me, they do the cleansing for the points. They are to blame for you finding me, so why should i keep playing with them? And thats just one example, there are many more. Like, i am on the hook and see noone is on a gen, instead 2 guys are in the basement teabagging each other. Why should i keep playing again?
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@golubushka08 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1922305#Comment_1922305
100 killers playing with theirselves. Because all the survivors deleted the game.
I am a survivor, therefore i am part of all survivors. I will not delete the game over a good change. Tada, you are proven wrong.
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But meg and feng are doing it, why shouldnt claudette too? I just played a game with that perk, did 2 unhooks, and feng just run away and meg started selfcaring in front of me. And now i remember why i dont run this perk more often.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1919792#Comment_1919792
I doubt that.
Back in 2018 killer queues were unreal (20 minutes or more, usually more) suggesting an overabundance of killers and a scarcity of survivors. Yet from that time until today survivors were hit with far more severe nerfs than the current DS nerf, in comparison to killers. Killer has been easier than it's ever been.
Yet instead of increasing the killer population we're now at a point where survivor queues are longer than killer queues on average.
The Undying nerf, was that a change also done to help survivor queue times by encouraging people to play less killer? Of course not. BHVR doesn't nerf to appease either playerbase or to influence play rates on either side. Nerfs and buffs are done to better balance the game as best they can, to make it a better game for everyone. They aren't always correct but it's not about trying to get more people to play one side over the other.
While you are right that playing killer is easier than ever, what does that have to do with anything?
so the game went from being survivorsided 90% of the time to being survivorsided 65% of the time, and while that is better for killers, it is still not balanced (warning, numbers are made up and just to illustrade a point).
And you ignore some simple facts, like how did the players of the game change? Are there more players than before, and if yes, does that change the relevancy of how easy or hard it was to play killer years ago?
While people are forgiving with a new game with a fresh concept, they might not be that forgiving 2-4 years playing the game and still serious points not adressed for a long time.
And your last statement might be your opinion, but my view is different. There are problems in the game, and the devs tend to ignore them until they cant ignore them any longer, and thats when they adress them. So yes, they dont do it to balance, because the balance was broken before, they do it because the imbalance is impacting performance, queue times, sales, whatever.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1919273#Comment_1919273
I just did, again, what's your point? Tell me how enjoyable it is to play an unwinable game, not because you're bad, but because your team is bad.
And can you explain why this is a problem with the balance in solo games, and not a problem of the matchmaking?
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Hmm, i think the changes came about because of the long survivor queue times some experienced, because fewer people wanted to play killer after the ruin, then mori, and now undying change.
With the change of something unbalanced survivor sided, some people might consider playing killer again, leading to shorter queue times for survivors.
If you want to quit, do it, because fewer survivors lead to shorter survivor queue times also.
I think the DS change went a little over the top and could be taken down a notch, but the OoO was only relevant in games where the survivors had heavy advantages anyway (swf), so the OoO change should have that much weight actually.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1917873#Comment_1917873
No, solo is not great. Anyone who actually plays only solo will disagree with you.
I play only solo, and i disagree with YOU!
I enjoy solo play. And it doesnt need a buff, it need better matchmaking. For what i am seeing, most games are not won by the killer, but lost by the survivors. I had games were i was the only one doing gens, because the rest had a severe gen allergy, or where they hooktraded in front of the killer without bt.
Use aura perks to see what your fellow survivors are doing, and you see its not that survivors are weak, but they just play badly.
I hope matchmaking will fix this.
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I am a solo survivor, and i didnt use either perk. I didnt use ds, because the whole tunneling issue wasnt that common to me than everybody claims it was. It happend, but not so often i could justify using a perk slot for ds. I think the change is fine, but i would have let them have the ability to heal themself (if not others), or at least be healed, because the killer can still tunnel otherwise.
OoO needed a change badly, even if it was not commonly used, the power it gave to swf on top of the information and coordination they already had anyway was just way too much.
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I still think keys are a good thing, at least for the time being. I play solo survivor 100% of the time, and sometimes i bring a key as backup, because the game turning into a 3v1 early due to hooktunneling, dcs and hooksuicides are way too common.
IF matchmaking is ever working in a good way, then it might be something to change, because then you would have a fair matchup anyway. But until this happens, i would like to keep keys.
The only real other option is to return to play swf instead of solo, because dcs and hooksuicides ruin far more games then.
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Fair matches, simply that. Either through a good matchmaking (which i am not convinced is coming, since i think the devs have wrong prioritys in that regard), or a decent balancing (which can´t be done as long as solo and swf are in the same game mode).
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915658#Comment_1915658
But self care is bad.
No its not, most people just use it wrong.
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There are so many...
Just choose one yourself:
- Noed needs a nerf
- Selfcare is bad
- Spirit has no counterplay
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Well, i can only speak for myself, but since the mori nerf i havn´t any tools left to handle toxic swf, i dont have the option to not face swf as killer, so i just stopped playing killer. I was a survivor main anyway, but played both sides for a change. Not anymore.
Less killers equals longer survivor queue times.
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@CheyeneKL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1914128#Comment_1914128
Most of the Bubbas I see playing this strategy pull it off from the get-go, not at the end. Their idea is that gen defense doesn't matter because NOED will more than likely proc at the end, giving them an easier time getting extra kills they might not have gotten from otherwise playing normally.
A build with Corrupt+NOED+Bitter Murmur+[insert another perk, maybe Infectious Fright, Knockout, Blood Warden, or even Insidious] actually almost makes this viable.
Unless Bubba has a bad beginning, he can very easily catch and hook a survivor before gens have progressed too much, especially when you consider that a decent amount of survivors don't immediately jump on gens until they have an idea of who/where the killer is. Like I said, this can be countered by a decent SWF feeding information to each other and playing very smartly, and sometimes 4 skilled solos, but even then they have to play optimally and the first survivor cannot be downed within 30s of the first gens being worked on, because the survivor is only on the hook for 120s max. Also, survivors have to spend no time attempting to save the camped survivor, or else they're wasting even more time that could be spent on gens and totems.
Let's say Bubba gets his first hook one minute into the game (fairly realistic at most ranks). If ALL three of the survivors are somehow 60s in to working on different gens (unlikely, tbh, but for the sake of this example...), then you have 20s+80s+whatever time it takes to open the gate. And that is not factoring in the time it takes to find and walk to those gens, totems, and exit gates. Let's face it- it is extremely unlikely that 3 survivors can do all that within even 3 or 4 minutes, and literally impossible within 2 minutes unless one gen is already done.
Basically, how I see it, Bubba is guaranteed one kill, and the second survivor he chases has to be good enough at looping to keep him busy long enough for the last two survivors to do everything else (finish gens and stop NOED from activating [otherwise Bubba has incentive to leave the hook without worry that he will have anything less than 2 kills, if not more])
Long winded post aside (sorry!), I don't think this strategy is that big of a problem. But I totally understand why it is utterly and completely salt inducing for the players who lose to this braindead strat hahaha
No, the idea (and reality) is that most surviors dont do gens and try to rescue anyway.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1914822#Comment_1914822
Something isn't overpowered if it requires skill to use
... are you on drugs? Overpowered stuff is overpowered no matter how long it takes to learn
Yes, it stays overpowered. The common argument in this forum, especially if it comes to swf, usually is "but it doesnt happen that often", which is also true for nurse.
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@albarty123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1914842#Comment_1914842
This game is not about 4 man squad.It is about making the killer playable and winnable as a solo survivor
But 4man squads are part of the game. As far as i can see, you just want the killer to have the unbeatable matchups instead of the solo survivors. Its NOT about balance, its about who should lose what.
You cant balance the game around solo survivors as long as swf is a part of the same balance system. Thats why the devs balance kind of in the middle, where swf tends to beat killer and killer tends to beat solo survivors.
Last point, how many nurses are there that can beat high skilled 4man squads? Nerf nurse for all because 0.001 % can play her well?
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@albarty123 said:
Honestly, it was a good idea to nerf nurse and her addons, but she is still extremely powerful.
1.If you check tournaments Nurse is able to kill a 4 swf squad (each survivors 2k hours+) using voice connection
2.An extremely experienced Nurse is really such a toxic thing to experience, not only she completely controls the whole map because of her insane mobility, same insane mobility allows her to catch survivors quickly because guess what, she has no counterplay, she ignores pallets, windows, anything that survivors were initially given to run and escape from killers
3.When i solo q on red ranks nurse is almost an impossible killer to escape from. Those tiny mistakes that can be forgiven if you are playing vs killer with low mobility become disasterous when you are playing against her. And if you get feeding randoms, or ruining survivors then its good game
4.Here is one thing that makes Nurse extremely strong. For example, if spirit uses her ability to go to the other side of the map, it is set on a cooldown allowing survivors to live for a while. But the nurse does not have this drawback.She can consequently use her power to cross large distances and then immediately keep on chasing
I would recommend changing her power so that survivors will have some kind of counterplay
P.S. I would really appreciate people who dont play survivors on purple/red ranks to not comment on this post as i was told Nurse is really not popular in lower ranks
While 1) might be true, that 4 man squad destroys all other killers. Why is it a problem if the squad has a killer with a high skill floor that can actually beat them?
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Using Filters also massivly changes the gameplay because it allows the killer to see things like hidden survivors that he otherwise might have missed. Its the same as stretched resolution, just for the other party. But since a lot of players (killers and survivors alike) dont like stealth players, it is not a big issue for them, but it still is cheating.
And using exploits intentionaly is cheating too, even though its the devs fault. if you use an exploit in windows to gain access to a computer that is not your own and you have no permission to access, try to argue with the judge its just an issue for microsoft to fix. Other games have banned players using exploits as well.
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Well, it depends on your point of view. There are people that say color filters, stretched resolution and using exploits isnt cheating.
Other opinions differ.
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But you will still be able to call the devs out, because if you reached a certain skill level, you can assess (i am not sure if thats the right word) the skill of your teammates as well as your opponent. If its not working skill wise, you will take notice.
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hmm, i dont actually remember, it could have been both, since i am using up my keys at the moment...thanks for the info
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But almost every swf profits from communication, its very rare that communication hinders the teamplay, and that was your example.
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@Mooks said:
How are you so certain they are using the average? Can’t really remember them talking about that.
and just to add something: not every voice comm is boosting the chances of the SWF, I have played with some friends that were not as familiar with the game and the info they gave me were so wrong that it actually hindered us, also many times when I told them something they misunderstood or didn’t know what to do with that info. But granted, that was with very inexperienced people so overall I agree they need to factor in SWF playing.
And what percentage of swf are like that, if you had to guess? 0,0001%? Or less?
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Nurse
You are the Nurse, you are a self motivating person who shows care to others, sometimes people can irritate every last nerve you have, you choose to try to be as nice and smart as possible!
Feng!
A lot of people like Feng as their main. You love attention and popularity (maybe) you are a black sheep in your family tree for your different opinions and hobbies. Not only do you have a dope style of shirts, but you have an excellent sense of humor and ways to make your audience want a popcorn refill!
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@Aztreonam78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1912001#Comment_1912001
yep.
People I unhook may sprint away in terror as the Killer patrols gens or chases somebody else.
Funny, i had the exact opposite experience.
Someone unhooks me, and start healing me, so i think ok, even though the killer so far already returned to the hook after an unhook, and when the killer comes and i am not healed up, the healer doesnt tank the hit, but instead body blocks me to get away himself. At that point i dont struggle after the rehook.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160976#Comment_1160976
People think clown is boring to verse
People find all killers boring to verse. However, you will find far fewer "clown is boring" or "demo is boring" threads than you will find "spirit is boring" or "freddy is boring" threads. The stronger the killer, the more frequent they are boring, there is a correlation to this.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906437#Comment_1906437
Have you tried any of these against a competent spirit?
But the op is talking about every spirit getting a 4k every game. How is it relevant then if the one spirit is competent?
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
As the title says.
Tbh I never understood why anyone would change last second to a character with a key or just equip a key last second.
I can understand that you were afraid to get moried, but that has changed now yet I still see it happen.
Are you not certain about your playstyle in chases or something?
If any, when survivors switch last second to a key I see them getting tunnelled and camped most of the time.
By not have the courage to equip it right from the start instead of at the last second.
I am genuinely curious why this is still a thing.
Dosnt have to do anything about being unsecure about my skills, it has to do with the fact that i play solo 100% of the time and that means every 3 games there is a first-hook-suicide or a dc. But i already know that, and a key help me to get out anyway.
Also, killers tunnel and camp anyway if they want to, no reason needed. But if you do it to me because i bring a key, at least someone else will take it up and get out.
you can tunnel all you want, but that is a reallity of the game anyway. so this "thread" is kind of empty.
Although i equip the key at the beginning and not last second, but even if it were a difference to you, to a lot of killers it is not.
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While i agree that console players who dont have access to mouse and keyboard and have lower framerates do have a disadvantage, that doesn´t mean the players are no competition. A good player actually can compensate his disadvantages, because movement prediction with huntress or mind games for example dont depend on that equipment.
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I think its a stupid stereotype that one player just copys from the next, and then seeks only confirmation in his games.
I actually tried the game with crossplay off, and in my opionion there is next to no difference.
in theory, on pc you could coordinate, but even if i tell the team what build i run beforehand or what strategy i use, half the people either dont read the chat or dont care (in a few cases even starting to screw me over, making my perks useless by intent).
In addition, console might have issues with things like lower frame rates, but if you dont have a very confrontational playstyle, that doesn´t have to play a role. (bad players just might take it as an excuse, and it gets carried on).
usually, i am one of the better players in my team, and i recoginze those who know how to play. And i seen some very good console players, and very bad ones. In the end, it comes down to the matching system, not the platform they play on.
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@BabyCameron10 said:
Let’s be honest, they make playing killer a horrible experience. They hide throughout the entire game and are the ones to Tbag at the exit gates. Like, bro you just hid the whole game.
As when playing survivor, they are the worst as well. They will save in front of the killer without borrowed time and don’t even bother taking a hit. This encourages killers to tunnel. The killer ends up finding a survivor that has been unhooked recently and this leads to tunneling because they can’t find no one else and Stealthy survivors don’t bother taking the agro.
Don’t get me wrong, it can be a good method to get away from the killer but playing like this is fun? The Devs should definitely consider making a perk for survivors that have not been seen by the killer, have their aura revealed.
What are your guys thoughts on stealthy players?
This is a lie.
Stealth killer often do gens all alone, while the rest hooktrades with the killer.
Stealth killer dont tbag at the exit gates. They are respectful and aware the killer is their fellow gamer, not their enemy.
Stealth players do save unhooks, and if the killer comes back, will take the hit for you.
Stealth players get into chases, but juke the killer, so the chase doesn´t end in a hook a lot of the time.
Stealth player cut into your chase if you need help, and either take over the chase till they can juke the killer, or at least distract him for you to gain distance.
Stealth player waste killer time while is is searching for them.
So, if all stealth players are the same, as your post suggests, and i am an example, as i do all of the above, you are wrong.
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I personally think that most games are NOT won by the killer, but rather lost by the survivors.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901721#Comment_1901721
Months ago when people were asking for a counter to Spirit, many people said "run Iron Will", so when people actually started doing that, Spirits just started using Stridor, making the only counter that any of those players could suggest useless. Essentially, Stridor negates Spirit's only form of counter and survivors are given no feedback on what a Spirit is doing or where she is by default. Asking Spirit players to avoid using Stridor is completely reasonable and that's coming from a Spirit main who refuses to use Stridor (you really don't need it, all you have to do is stop phasing when you stop seeing scratch marks).
And what do you do if you are colorblind and dont see scratchmarks anyway?
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I am from germany, and i had people with names of well known nazis or rank names of the Waffen-SS and stuff like that. Yes, i dont play with such people.
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@Blueberry said:
I personally think it's kept as a handicap to help newer players/bad players have a chance. Similar to DS, BT etc
Just my guess.
I would love to see kill rate stats for a weekend that has NOED turned off. I don't think people realize how much NOED single handedly alters the games kill stats. I think it's pretty massive.
IT would change kill statistics in 2 ways, though.
First, because the killer doesnt get that endgame down, and second, there is no need to cleanse dull totems. I am a solo survivor who does totems. I do gens, and on my way to the next i check the known spots on that tile. Then, if the 4th gen gets done, i activly start looking for the last ones.
Without noed, there is no need for either. If other people do that as well, and then dont, gen times will get faster than now, leading to even less kills.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
I love how all the comments that are in favour of Franklin's as it is have this undertone of 'oh, i never faced it but used it'...
the perk, as it is now, is broken and gives an unfair advantage to killers. Also, if/when keys gets reworked etc it will become nothing but a douchebag perk to be toxic (even more so then now)
I dont see this undertone. When i still played killer, i never used franklins. And now i am back at 100% solos survivors, and i still have no problem with franklins, even though i usually bring good items into the match. I think it is far from broken, the moment i realize franklins is there i just hide my items till i need it or i use it up as fast as i can. If the killer decides to camp the item instead, whatever item i brought just won the game, so the sacrifice is fair.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
People have pretty much summed up the reasons why. She is insanely boring to face.
And some of her addons are just complete bull.
Can you name a strong killer you find not boring to play against?
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If it is down to two survivors, i always get caught because i am the one that does gens, while the other one hides. Happend to me so often, that i think of doing it myself. Why should the guy not doing anything be the one that escapes?
And not doing anything is not even the case, i think of going around killing all totems, then go to a gen, work on it for 10 seconds, and crouch to the next, work there for 10 seconds, so i actually do play the game, but in a very cautious way.
I am not even angry with the killer about this, but with the other person. And to be fair, i had one killer that caught me at a gen, hit me once, and stopped chasing me, until he finally found the other guy. If more killer did that, the reward for just hidding wouldnt be so big.
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I think it is for 2 reasons.
First, even the few stats we got were mispresented and misinterpreted by a lot of people in the community.
Second, i think there are certain things that need to be adressed, but the devs dont want to adress them at all (balance in swf, for example)
Nerfing swf might be detrimental to the game, but not doing it while stats are availible might just turn more killers away.
So contolling the data gives a little room to...ignore problems.
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I started keeping stats after the mori change, and till the last rank reset, i had nearly perfect stats, as in 20% (+-2%) of games where on each result, with 4k and 0k being a little less than 20%, and 2k being a little higher.
I dont have the recent numbers, i have to check, but after rank reset the survival rates usually drop a little until i hit red ranks again.
Also note, that my games are a very small number, and are heavily impacted by my playstyle, so if only one escapes, its me most of the time.
(i suck at loops, but are a stealth player, that means that while in a chase i have a good chance of juking the killer and lose him, so my chases often ends unhooked, and thus i often be one of the last survivors)
Edit: I also keep track of the numbers of gens done (dont count hooks, because i usually cant remember after a match) and a lot of the 4k games still had 5 gens done, which is a better masurement on how the game went then just the escape rates.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
No, it's not, anyone who says otherwise just doesn't like dying!
I've been keeping a statistic count, I have a 43% escape rate as a rank 3 survivor, but I almost always pip or double pip (unless my team gets absolutely destroyed, getting some bad luck can set me back quite a bit). Going into solo survivor (and swf, you save your friends and die, no one complains about that), you should 100% expect to die for the good of your team, 90% of the time I'm taking the killer on a 4/5 gen run and I end up making my points up on totems and healing others, and when I'm not doing that I'm full well pounding gens for the sake of the person in chase and going for saves, risky or not.
Keep in mind I'm also running non-meta builds 90% of the time cuz that ######### is boring, the closest I get is running the occasional adrenaline or dead hard, so people who says you need x or y to do well is full well not right, and neither is anyone saying solo queue is bad (it IS how the game was designed)
Funny, i do keep statistics as well as a 100% solo survivor. Somewhere between rank 2-4, and i have an escape rate of about 80% since the mori nerf (was between 72 and 75% before that) Also not running meta perks, unless self care is one (and i see it often in my games, so maybe it is)
To topic: As a solo survivor, you depend very much on your teammates (as it should be). in red ranks, you get decent teammats most of the time, meaning that most people acutally work on gens. They might not all be good at chases, but at least they play the game. But from time to time you get games where all your teammates have a serious gen-allergy, and you will do the work alone.
Oh, and if someone dcs or hook suicides early, you basicly screwed (although i had several games where the remaining survivors still finished the 5 gens in a 3v1 game, with any number of survivors still escaping. They were actually the most exciting games).
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@GannTM said:
Not every survivor is like that. I think that survivor is the more whiney side in general but most of the complaints about boring killers are pretty valid.
Killers like Spirit, Deathslinger, and Pyramid Head completely negate the skill of the survivor, which is honestly not fair. I’m not saying these killers have no counterplay but the counterplay they do have is very stale and boring because it has nothing to do with the survivor’s input. Now, all these killers do require the player playing them to be good but relying on just the killer player to be bad isn’t good design. I even main Spirit and I know this is true.
Billy, Blight, and Huntress (assuming she doesn’t have Iri Head) are all strong killers but aren’t oppressive because there are ways to play around their power as long as you have the skill and you are aware what counters they have. Because of that, these killers are great examples of killers that are still strong but still offer fun gameplay from both sides.
That is only at least partly true if the whole skill a survivor brings is in chases. But there is more to this game than just running in circles.
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What huge said. Exactly that.