solidhex
solidhex
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388820#Comment_3388820
Problem is everyone will be running healing perks. If you run botany it will be 24x1.15=27.6/1.5=18.4. Mangled would add 2.4 seconds to a heal in that scenario
true, but it takes a perk slot which means no Prove or Adrenaline or DS or OTR or.... Having to heal with a teammate is far better for the killer because it generally slows down the game and it also requires coordination by the team which means solo-players will likely bring perks like Bond, Empathic Connection, Empathy...
@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388865#Comment_3388865
But eruption is the second best regression perk after thus patch. Jolt been the best imo.
8% is nothing and it's not even guaranteed to trigger one or even multiple gens. The perk feels like a QoL thing but not a strong perk that changes a game (like Eruption, old Pop etc did)
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@Ginnypig said:
Remember, without killers youll get huge queues, or face same killers over and over and over.. I knew they were gonna crack on survivor tears. Its 4vs1 after all.
Shame, the game needed a hard change
these changes are great and it seems like you don't understand what those changes even mean for the game.
- making altrustic heals worth it, but self-heals not, will slow down gens a bit. Besides that, interrupting a team-heal is very powerful especially with Mangled status effect
- it's a passive buff to perks like Nurses Calling and Deathbound, but also to Bond, Botany and Empathic Connection - perks you don't see much ingame right now
- Dead Hard is a mediocre perk now. You can easily counter it if you REALLY want to camp & hard-tunnel, besides that it's not a guaranteed free hit like Off The Record, you still have to hit it right. Having another anti-tunnel option is also great
- making altruistic heals not worth it would lead to a Resilience/Adrenaline/Prove/Toolbox Meta were games last 5 minutes, while some killers would play slug-builds to abuse the slow heal
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I can’t believe Dead Hard got such a tiny nerf.
Dead Hard has been the #1 complained about survivor perk for months, and the new nerf still allows survivors to easily get multiple uses per game.
How is this fair at all? All the good gen kicking regression perks got massive nerfs, but dead hard gets such a small nerf that I might still need to suffer through it every game?
Considering that a successful Dead Hard isn't even guaranteed, this perk definitely got nerfed hard. I mean, before you could sometimes use it more than once before getting downed (if the killer left you for someone else), or you could have it in first chase, allowing 3 gens to pop sometimes.
Besides that, you shouldn't get dead-harded consistently, if so it's a you-problem if you can't wait for it. The only time it can be guaranteed is on pallets, but even on vaults you can just wait for the animation to start and then hit them. It's not even a crazy good perk right now, after the nerf it will be worse than Sprintburst and Lithe. I mean, i could just take Off The Record instead, sure it does deactivate after touching gens/ healing but at least it saves me in deadzones, unlike dead hard. Also, making it kinda an anti-tunnel perk is great considering that this is one of the things most survivors complain about.
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This is hard to judge without seeing you play, i rarely lose games as killer but i'm also very experienced and know what to do when games are close. If a team REALLY goes for gens then there is not that much you can do on some maps, especially if they know how to counter camping and tunneling, eg if they're wiling to sacrifice a surv for a 3-man-out. BUT bully squads are rarely a problem except in some very exotic circumstances (like getting The Game as M1 killer). You can usually bait and punish cocky behaviour and those guys are often allergic to gens too, but it's hard to go into details without knowing what exactly happened.
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I understand their plans to get rid of the gen regression meta and focus more on chases or risk/reward plays (heal for a long time or stay injured until Adrenaline kicks in), but the problem is the gen ression meta will just switch to other perks, for example the gen block perks (Dead Mans Switch, Deadlock, Corrupt Intervention). Those are strong perks that work especially well with some killers and playstyles. I don't think they will get rid of strong gen regression perks, because killer has always been about gen regression.
Same goes for Dead Hard, survivors will just switch to Sprintburst and Lithe und focus more on an "holding w"-meta instead of an "extra hit"-meta. This will hit some slower and more territorial killers very hard...
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since always. it's not terrible but it's way to complicated to play around it in an efficient way. You basically can't tunnel even if you need to, and the repair speed nerf is gone once you injure/hook the person again. It may work in a perk setup with perks that are specifically aimed at hooking 4 people (No Way Out and Grim Embrace for example). But making it a 3v1 has been always the more efficient strategy.
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@SpaghettiYOLO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381082#Comment_3381082
Just waste time that you don't have much of. That's basically what you're saying. That's the issue people have with it. The fact they always have to assume DH is in play and they have to respect it or try to bait it our every time they chase and injure somebody. That's a ton of wasted time in a match due to just a POSSIBILITY that they may be running it. When a perk is able to affect a game when it hasn't even been confirmed to be in play yet (and some games no one has it, yet that killer ALWAYS loses time in most chases due to waiting it out or trying to bait jt), that's a problem. No perk should be so strong that it has an impact in every single game played, regardless if it's actually there or not.
And honestly... people crying about the sky falling and 'IT'S REALLY DEAD NOW' despite the last change made to it was a good healthy one and now this is another good healthy one. Oh no, you have to safely unhook someone. Oh no, if you don't get hit when you use it, you get to keep it instead of becoming exhausted. Oh no, it's still going to be one of the most popular perks guaranteed. One safe unhook. That's all you need. It's not an impossible task, people. It's part of the normal gameplay you already do. No need to pretend survivors never have anything good, like most survivor perks and maps and items haven't been insanely strong for years. It's about time that everyone in the match has to put in a little work instead of the majority just coasting on autopilot.
It wasn't reliable at all against good killers or in dead zones, it only helped in 2 situations: when you run to a pallet (or sometimes even a window, and only if the distances are right) and when you bait it by doing 180s or something (this only worked against bad killers who were trigger happy). It was already much weaker than before and much less used. This nerf will definitely delete the perk from the game. Unhooking someone to get ONE stack is just not a good risk/reward ratio. Imagine 3 people leave their gens to get that 1 unhook stack for their beloved dead hard. But yea i guess killer mains will only stop to demand nerfs and buffs until every killer player out there can do 200 wins in a row-streaks with every killer (like some streamers do with Nurse and Blight). Because then kIlLeR iS fInAlLy nOt StReSsfUl aNyMoRe 🤡
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NOED (and maybe No Way Out) will be back as an Adrenaline counter, with survivors playing Adrenaline/Resilience/Prove/Toolbox combo every game to rush gens to counter the slow heals.
Sloppy will be used by most M1 killers, you will see more hit&run killers (Wraith, Legion, Pig, Ghostface) with Nurses Calling and stuff. Some killers will stay with gen control, using blocking perks like Deadlock, Corrupt and Dead Mans Switch. Other killers (M1 again) will use more chase perks like Spirit Fury, Enduring, Brutal and others will use more Aura perks to be constantly in chase (you need hook pressure to counter the missing gen control).
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379565#Comment_3379565
You misunderstand my spirit point. Basically, you make it so if the survivors heal, they spend way too much time doing it, so its not worth actually healing. Thus as you start hooking people, you'll just have permanently injured survivors.
You underestimate wraith with Shadow Dance, you can't predrop pallets because he instantly breaks them, can't stay injured because the stealth, and you can't heal because the healing reduction. Yes, you'll still get "gen rushed" but you need to keep in mind that the first hit is basically guaranteed, and you make it nearly impossible to heal.
Same with legion. The reason legion is considered weak is because survivors can spread around and just not heal. But with thanataphobia survivors still need to heal at least 1 survivor. Additionally, legion the button for example means once you drop the pallet, its broken for free. With 20% less time on gens if survivors don't heal (and even more if they do try to heal) you are going to create dead zones extremely fast.
i mained Wraith for almost 2 years, it's not that easy at high MMr, but yeah he is a noob slasher. Shadowdance can be easily countered by spamming vaults at pallets and you don't even have to drop them until he uncloakes, just be careful he doesn't bodyblock them / punish him for trying it. It's not a bad add-on and i play it too a lot, you can churn through pallets, but he is far from being a strong killer on most maps that have pallets.
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Dead Hard was a strong perk but honestly i don't get all the fuzz about it. Just learn not to instantly swing and be patient. There are some situations near pallets where the timing is very strict, but even that is totally possible. Dead Hard could be annoying but most of the time when i swung into it, it was just me being impatient. Killer mains just want to get feed their easy wins. Since i play solo surv most of the time i know that this role is much harder nowadays.
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@Reinami said:
The new meta will be anti-healing and survivors will hate it more than 3 genning.
Now that many gen regression perks are dead (i'd argue pain res is still fine when paired with my current combo of Thrilling/DMS/pain res/fearmonger, because if you use it 4 times you probably already got a lot of value) But overcharge being deleted, and CoB being deleted, killers have little to no decent gen regression left.
The only ones really remaining are probably the gen BLOCKING ones
However, With the increase to healing speeds happening across the board, this is going to result in the meta becoming anti-healing and stealth. Because healing will slow the game down far more than any gen regression perk can by sheer numbers. Thus, i suspect the "new" meta perks will involve some anti-healing along with more passive gen defense and potentially stealth, all of these dependent on killer
Personally though, i think from a killer perspective, this will actually result in killers being able to make more skillful plays. Instead of just hard tunneling someone out and using a bunch of gen defense perks and relying on a 3-gen, you'll be able to actually spread pressure and target multiple survivors. It'll make the game more fun for killers Unfortunately for the survivors, they are gonna get pissed and ragequit when they see that red bar after being hit and realizing they might as well not even bother healing.
With this change as well, i suspect survivor perks like resilience, resurgence, second wind, autodidact, inner healing and other perks become more meta on the survivor side of things.
Here is my predictions on perks and killers:
- Sloppy butcher - for the m1 killers
- Hex: Pentimento/Hex: Plaything - for the stealth and "passive" gen defense
- Deadlock - passive gen defense
- Corrupt Intervention - If you are a setup killer or have a bad early game
- Thanataphobia - To force the survivors to heal while their healing is extremely long
- Coulorophobia/Distressing - For killers with big terror radius manipulation like wesker/doctor
- Deathbound - For stealth after they heal
- Leverage - Unironically for combining with sloppy to make people's day sadder
- Monitor and Abuse - To shrink your terror radius and make you stealthier
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - For the killers who aren't m1, like nurse, this would replace sloppy.
- Dark Devotion - Encourages Spreading pressure, more anti-healing and stealth.
- Game Afoot - For swapping obsession, could work well with dark devotion.
- Hex: Face the darkness - Interrupts long actions.
- Blood Echo - If you really don't want to deal with exhaustion, since everyone will be injured, this will get much higher value.
S-tier killers will be (in no particular order):
- Legion - With the increase in healing even more, Thana will be amazing on them to the point where (i'd have to math this out, but) it probably would be better to just take the 20% gen speed reduction than it would be to try healing someone, they might end up being a-tier instead but we'll have to see how it works in practice
- Wesker - With his massive terror radius can make use of a combo like - sloppy/thana/distressing/coulorophobia
- Wraith - Hit and run wraith is back
- Spirit - Now you are injured for so much longer so her power becomes much stronger. The main counter to spirit is to keep healed up so she can't hear you as easily, this will be miserable.
- Blight - Because blight
- Nurse - Because Nurse
A-tier killers will be (in no particular order)
- Pig - With a perk like Face the darkness, using the "forever traps" build and all of these healing stuff, you'll make the game miserable.
- Oni - Getting that first hit will be hard, but once you start the snowball you'll feel great
- Twins - Twins are coming back because the healing meta is what countered them.
B-Tier killers will be (in no particular order)
- Doctor - Can interrupt healing (and regress it when using sloppy) and force them to leave madness wasting healing time.
- Sadako - Her hit and run style with wraith can be strong, but probably weaker than wraith still
- Ghostface - Similar to sadako and wraith, but still probably weaker than wraith.
Killers you think would be good but will actually be bad:
- Plague - You already don't want to heal against plague because you don't want to cleanse, but with less gen regression than before, she won't be able to hang as well as she used to.
- Skull Merchant - Even though she has good stealth, the fact that 3 genning, her strongest thing has been so heavily nerfed it won't matter. Additionally the penalty of being exposed matters less because everyone will just be injured all the time.
- Deathslinger - Even though being injured is good for deathslinger and his long range shots, he still has no map pressure, leading him to being forced to 3-4 gen, which with a lot of those perks gone now he won't be able to to do as effectively.
Top builds for the S-Tier killers:
- Legion - Filthy Blade (longer mending)/Defaced Smiley Pin(sloppy in the form of addons) - Thanataphobia/Distressing/Coulrophobia/Deadlock - Legion can increase their terror radius which benefits their tracking, and also makes coulrophobia even better, the longer mending and free sloppy in the form of addons means they can use other perks
- Wesker - Egg/LooseCrank (makes his power good at loops) - Coulrophobia/Distressing/Thanataphobia/Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - With his massive terror radius already, you can stand near the center of the map with this and hit nearly the entire map. You'll never want to heal, nor could you with this build, plus you have to deal with infection when it hits you.
- Wraith - ShadowDance (fast pallet breaking)/ Swift Hunt (fast uncloaking) - Sloppy Butcher/Thanataphobia/Leverage/Deadlock - Wraith is always great at getting the first hit, and sloppy makes healing take forever meaning you'll be able to keep the whole team injured extremely easily, the fast pallet breaking means that predropping pallets will remove their defenses super quick, and fast uncloaking means you can hug them, uncloak and guarantee a hit if they don't get to anything
- Spirit - MDR ( faster phase)/Amulet(longer phase) - Sloppy Butcher/Thanataphobia/Leverage/Deadlock - Same build as wraith for pretty much the same reasons, except your power is better for chasing.
- Blight - Alch Ring/Compound 21 (aura reveal) - Coulrophobia/Distressing/Thanataphobia/Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - Same build as wesker, even though blights terror radius isn't bigger, he can move so fast that he can be anywhere on the map instantly, so if you know someone is healing somewhere you can easily be there to interrupt them, also blight.
- Nurse - Catatonic (less fatigue for chain blinks/Fragile Wheeze (Sloppy in addon form) - Thantaphobia/Gearhead/BBQ/Lethal - As a nurse main with nearly 3k hours i know her quite well, aura reading is her game. With the buff to gearhead, which makes it dummy good on her, i'll swap out my pain res for thana, and my other addon for sloppy and she can also play the anti-healing game, but also be able to basically see every survivor pretty much all the time.
My favorite part, is that they made gearhead nurses best perk.
Playing Spirit hit&run isn't that good of an idea, even though i will defintely play Sloppy on her but no Thana or Leverage. Generally i think making all your build about anti-heal and hitting everyone at least once won't be that strong with killers like Blight, Nurse or Wesker, tunneling and proxy-camping will still be the way to go for top-killers in high MMR because good survs will keep you to long in chase ir will hide to well for you to gain momentum, and they will rush gens with Adrenaline ...
Also Wraith and Legion will never be S-Tier. They're still easily loopable M1 killers even though they will maybe move up a bit in tierlists.
I'm absolutely afraid of "forever"-builds as i already played during those times when Forever Freddy and Forever Legion was a thing. They're unfun as hell and many people will complain.
Personally i think the 3 gen meta could have been way weaker if survivors would bring perks like Deja Vu or actually develop some game sense and break possible 3 gens from the beginning. Not sue how this new meta will play out
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Playing Wraith against your typical bully-wannabe surv with Flashlight was annoying, especially on maps like Midwich with tight corridors. So much time wasted alone by avoiding getting flashlight burned lol. It wasn't that much of an issue on wide maps if you just kept on moving around them and let them burn their flashlight, but it was stupid and annoying anyways.
I don't think burning birds and traps was that common in pub games but it was very common in tournaments were coordinated would do this and i think those killers got buffed heavily by this.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379127#Comment_3379127
The killer "nerfs" were minor percentage changes in comparison to what survivor tools got. It was already easier than ever to secure a minimum of 3k per match, and even Otz did a week of no tunneling and proved that an 80% win rate can be achieved without those tactics. Now unskilled killers are going to be even more empowered to be abusive in game and push our survivor base away.
And yes, the killer queue waiting time actually did increase after that update, and some days it was so bad I couldn't even get a match in a timely manner and had to go play something else.
Wraith is still one of the worst killers in the game if you're not getting interupted in a deadzone. Just be aware of you position and stay near save tiles/pallets windows, then he is not that OP. With Sloppy and Nurses he will become stronger though and i guess we will see a lot of Hit&Run Wraiths in future.
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Dead Hard wasn't an issue, the issue was teams with Adrenaline rushing gens, and this is even getting worse now. Hit&run is back, the first hit is now much more important, but if you're not good enough in chase you will just lose because no gen control perk can save your ass now. On survivor sided maps, they will just stay injured and rush gens because they have too many pallets to go down fast enough for the killer to gain momentum. You really need to snowball and force the injured survivors to either heal or go for very unsave unhooks...
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
Holy ######### talk about taking a chainsaw and murdering everything.
Dead hard now only activates when you unhook someone and deactivates. Call of brine and overcharge were nerfed, Pain Resonance was completely obliterated. And COH is no more. Healing had a complete nerf hammer took to it.
Good news is at least Billy is getting buffed a little he won’t gain that much heat anymore when starting and reving. But he will gain more when he’s sprinting. We have to see how it is. The rest of the killer updates was just addons they suck.
this is going to be interesting. I just wished we got more perk updates
billy isn't buffed, overheating was a non-issue for every good Billy player i know, instead they nerfed is map mobility and his general chase power by nerfing the only viable add ons that made him able to compete with good survivors
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379020#Comment_3379020
Why? Gift of pain was and is better anyway. It just didn't synergize with DMS
GoP isn't even a good perk to begin with
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It's just a change in meta, there will be new strategies that everyone will hate (hit&run will be back, have fun with all the Wraiths, Legions and Hags with Nurses Calling and Sloppy while you heal for a minute every time)
On the other side, of course the survs will adapt, they will just rush gens even more while being injured in hope to get their Adrenaline. Good chasers who don't get injured will be rewarded but teams who give away easy hits will be punished by being injured for the whole game OR lose a lot of time with healing. The Dead Hard nerf will make chases shorter for our beloved killer mains who love to complain about this perk every day. Not sure how this update is gonna play out but i'm not afraid since i love playing Hit&Run and generally playing more surprising instead of defending a 3-gen.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would say that Boons are a failed concept. Outside of Circle of Healing the other Perks are not really useful because they are either too weak (Dark Theory, no chance to buff this Perk unless they give it a second effect) or too specific (Exponential).
I am also more annoyed by Circle of Healing as Survivor than anything. Because Circle of Healing can be strong IF the Survivors are decent. But in SoloQ (or Dou, what I play) you can get awesome teammates and then teammates who dont know if they are playing DBD or Minecraft back to back. And if the latter are using Circle of Healing, you will probably lose the game because they waste so much time setting up their Boon again and again instead of doing the actual Objective.
Recently had a Dwight who instead of doing the last Gen searched for a Boon and healed. This took him around 2 minutes in which I was constantly in chase with an Onryo (we were the only Survivors left, so she probably took her time as well) while having Adrenaline.
But in general, Survivors are really inefficient with CoH and it shows. Sure, Killers love to ######### about CoH (because there has to be a reason they lose games), but it is not that good anymore. It is strong on multifloor-Maps and this should be changed. But another direct nerf to CoH will probably kill the Perk entirely.
And since there was a mention of Circle of Healing in some German Dev-Update a few months ago, I would totally expect it to get another nerf and at least at this point Boons are clearly a failed concept. (And as I said, I think they are already)
When it comes to Scourge Hooks I would not say they are a failed concept. I just think that they dont have many ideas what to do with them without it being repetitive. But all Scourge Hook-Perks we currently have (at least the ones added, I would exclude Monstrous Shrine from that) are at least decent. You can run Gift of Pain, Floods of Rage or Pain Resonance and you will have a good Perk in your Loadout.
Yes, it's incredible how obsessed both sides are with CoH. There isn't a single game of me playing solo or killer, were at least one surv isn't constantly booning totems, even if no one is injured. They spend an incredible amount of time to run all over the map, boon a totem and then heal at a ridiculously slow speed, only to get a M1 hit again after a 10 second chase. Those survivors are a blessing for every killer, but the killer mains think this perk is the sole reason they lose games. Coordinated teams who refresh in some corner or survs with Adrenaline who do gens injured are far more dangerous than this.
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@Pink_Ronin said:
This game has been completely mangled by killer mains whining about SWF. As an exclusively solo survivor with over 2k hours, I would say my escape rate is probably every 2 out of 10 games in the game's current state. I run good, I do gens, I've been called a god on multiple occasions by randoms, so at the very least you could say I'm a decent survivor. When I hear people say this game is survivor-sided it's like the same feeling I get when someone says Joe Biden is a great president, like help me understand just how tf you can think that? If you face a SWF the expectation should be that you are going to lose and oftentimes as a killer you need take the L in that situation; we shouldn't be handicapping survivors to compensate for it. This game was nearly perfect 4-5 years ago and was not even survivor-sided then IMO. I was getting 4K's as Spirit and Hag and it was not difficult. Nowadays killers are on easy mode and survivors feel it, and have become so fickle they will leave game without a second thought. Even so, BHVR continues to keep adding more content, and making moves intended to nerf survivors like: Neutralizing looping and the option to conserve resources, greatly limiting gen progression, and incentivizing camping (most notably the current 3-gen meta, a strategy I was doing successfully years ago that has now become stupidly easy to do because of current gen spawn RNG) Issues are addressed by adding ADDITIONAL content (behind a paywall) intended to act as a band-aid on core underlying issues.
This game is taking a similar path to Overwatch where the devs F'd with the mechanics so much over time that the competitive game meta became completely stale and not entertaining. Eventually Blizzard had to revert back to the original meta/mechanics when the game was ACTUALLY FUN, and called it "Overwatch 2." It's time to start consolidating, trim the fat, remove what we don't need and keeping/refining only what is necessary to the fun factor. Wind it back we don't need 10 pages of perks nobody is using, just make it as it was when everything wasn't a race for gens and sweaty 3 gen camping/tunelling gameplay. Or alternatively release DBD classic so I can play that. I would gladly go back to the days where I waited 30-45 minutes to find a match because at least when I found a match I had a blast, when this game just makes me sad when I play it because I remember how much I used to love it.
Exactly my words. It's too much content but i guess especially the younger players are used to this style of gaming (getting new content every month or switch to another game) were devs focus on content instead of making a great game that lasts.
Many perks could get merged or outright deleted, we don't need 100 survivors that are not used by anyone or killers with recycled powers, instead make the ones that everyone loves more interesting and focus on gameplay.
The game felt better 2-3 years ago where we had much less killers and survivors and perks and maps. In retrospect, with everything they fixed (graphics, maps, perks), new problems got created as the game lost a lot of character and balance.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372230#Comment_3372230
Billy in comp?😂😂 Maybe back in the day.
1) Good survivors know Blight has a ton of counterplay.
2) My reading comprehension? Dude… look at your composition. 😂
you don't get to choose your killer in comp every time, often the setups are determined, Billy is fairly often played even now. There are still Billys who destroy good loopers on classic 1v1 maps, watch some tourneys.
And no, Blight doesn't have counterplay once a Blight doesn't make mistakes (bump logic) and knows all the techs. I've played comp for a year and played against god-Blights and even they told me there is not much you can do if you're not near a good window or pallets.
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@Wewantjason said:
I escape about 60-70 percent of my survivor games and can’t win a killer match. Entire thread is dog doodoo
literally no point in playing killer unless you’re some junior who is cracked from playing 20 hour a day right now.
I used to try saying it wasn’t needed but I’m camping and tunneling 100% of my games from now on this ######### is ######### stupid
even as blight and spirit like what the literal ######### I took a week off to calm down from some bad games and it’s the same #########
player base won’t be happy until it’s like Friday the 13th with fifteen players left who all know each other
Strange, i win a lot of killer games with my mains, except Wraith who is just a ######### M1 killer of course but i still play him though. The game just needs a general overhaul, there are just so many things wrong on both sides that make games unfun. You shouldn't be required to tunnel and camp to win games against good opponents and tunneling/camping in general should be more punished as a conclusion, so "toxic" killers can't abuse it after the changes (which will probably never happen).
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i recently watched a gameplay video with old realms (i started to play dbd in early 2020, sweet memories) and it looks so much more atmospheric. The new maps probably appeal to a broader mass of gamers (who maybe wouldn't play the game if it would be too horror focused) but the game lacks character since then. It's cluttered with content and there is no clear recurring theme.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369257#Comment_3369257
It could be worser. Borgo is map that I hate most on any killer 100 million safe pallets and weird stuff around loops so you can't even try to mindgame. Garden of misery is worser too.
i don't understand their map design, like how can they think that Eyrie of Crows, Garden or Borgo are fun to play on maps? They are stunning visually but they're way too survivor sided
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370282#Comment_3370282
But you are likely unwilling to learn how to play vs blight and any map that is bad for blight is worse for other killer minus 3-4 current maps. People that don't like blight in general really just mean they don't really want to be good at the game chase wise.
you're unwilling to accept that a good blight can only be stopped by pallets (or very, very bad maps), there is no counterplay against a good blight once you run out of pallets.
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@Bwsted said:
I open DbDLeague Discord and head over to the balance sections. Look at what is banned and ask myself why. If there's something that can be exploited, comp players will find it.
a lot of these things are just banned because they force boring playstyles, other things (for survivors) are banned because they can get abused in a team to get points, which doesn't matter if you just play solo or with a friend.
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@Steakdabait said:
im pretty ok with myc getting nerfed cringe perk used in a cringe way by cringe killers
Im very biased
i think the last time i faced this perk more than once every 100 games must be like 1-2 years ago. It's a very bad perk now, it was kinda bad before but it's very bad now.
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@Xernoton said:
"Oh my god all killer players are bad because they play in a way I don't like." That's pretty much what I get here.
Don't blame killers for tunneling and camping. Think about why they do that. It might have something to do with these strategies working better than spreading hooks. A survivor won't stop on a gen that is nearly finished. Why would the killer do that? I personally hate to tunnel and camp. But I'm also done being a plaything to survivors that have no trouble finishing gens in 4 minutes even when I manage to get 3 hooks and another down in that time.
I have no chance to slow down the game without the help of perks. Hooking doesn't slow down survivors that are as efficient as only 5 players could have managed a year ago. And even with slow down perks I can best hold a 3 gen and hope that will help me. BHVR designed these perks in this way and they also reduced prices in the blood web. It used to be a super rare occurence to have 4 strong items with strong addons in one game. Now it's normal.
They made everything other than tunneling, camping and slugging harder.
for me the balance even felt better 1 year ago because perks like old Pop and Ruin kinda balanced the faster gen speeds, for me at least. It doesn't feel like they take longer at all because survivors adjusted and gen regression perks are worse now, with CoB being the only real staple.
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@Marik1987 said:
1.) Why should the killer care about the fun of the survivors? Do the survivors care the opposite way?
2.) "If u tunnel and camp you are bad". No, maybe your MMR is much lower than you can imagine. There is a reason even the best killers like Zaka tunnel every single game and this reason is not being bad or a bad person or whatever, they just havr accepted what the game is.
I will speak for myself: I play every single match for the win, I play competetive. Its not my fault the best strategy to win most of your matches is Gen-Tunneling on survivor- and Fast Kill on killer-side. I cant complain why survivors dont interact with chests and totems, why should they? Useless Objects who dont give u any progress to win. On the other side, I cant complain about killer which tunnel the weakling out asap for the same reason. You dont get the win for playing for 12 hooks, you win with kills.
well there is no definitive win condition as far as i know, so everyone can play how they want. I sometimes don't care for kills and just go for chases/ hook stages, if i get 8 stages but 3 people escape i still feel like the winner because e.g. 8 stages with Trapper on a ######### map is good. Hook stages is also the win measure in most competitive dbd tourneys. But yeah, i think most players will say that a 4k is winning, wether it's by one hooking survs or 3-hooking...
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@Desteriaa said:
As a someone who has been playing survivor a little more than killer something has to be done about these cheap tactics that killers love to defend. If you have to tunnel you’re bad and need to get better. If you hold a three gen from the start you are bad, if you camp at 5 gens ur bad. Tunneling and camping are stale strategies and killers do it for easy wins but god forbid a swf gen rushes for "easy wins" Killers are hypocritical and i’m over it. The tunneling and camping is genuinely draining the fun out of games for survivors. I haven’t even mentioned the slugging for the 4k all of this is not fun. Before anyone says "bring anti tunneling perks" The anti tunneling perks we have are trash. Ds is a joke. Otr is useless especially if you’re being tunneled bc of basekit bt once they hit you otr is gone.
You clearly never played at high MMR as it seems if you think those killers are bad. Is it unfun to play like that? Yeah for sure, but have you thought about why competitive Dbd players are playing the way they're playing? Because it's the most effective way to play this game. Tunneling an easy target while not sacrifing too many gens is the best strategy. Camping someone out if you can afford to lose (unimportant) gens is effective. Slugging at the right time is effective if you can put pressure and time-wasting on other survs (getting free hits). Good killers will continue doing this if they think it's necessary to win the game. I mean, will survivors stop doing gens because i have trouble downing them? Will they not open the exit gates because i don't have much hook stages yet? Will they not break a 3-gen because that would ruin my strategy as a setup killer?
Do i say "if you have to break a 3-gen at the start you're just bad and need to get better"? Or "if you have to split up on gens..." or "if you have to take hits for each other..." . You understand now?
...but hey, have fun trying to 12-hook a 4man swf with multiple thousand hours with Wraith or Trapper :D
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It's in the nature of the 4v1 mechanic, there will never be a way of making killer relaxing without completely breaking the game. It will always be a stressfull role because you have to think as killer as one side and 4 survivors as the other. You can balance it somehow so that both sides can be equally able to win any match, sure, but killer will never be relaxing in a way most killer players demanding it to be (so that they can just dive into any chase without having to worry about the others or multitasking -> this will always be an essential part of playing killer, because it's basically a time management game, not a horror game)
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They need to buff Pop and Ruin again so we have more options, right now i feel that there are no go-to perks for killers against stronger squads, i personally never liked Eruption/CoB/Overcharge but i'm also not a big fan of gen kicking meta and Jolt+Pain Res just isn't that strong against good squads.
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@Anglosaxon said:
How did people used to play then? Genuine question. Did they play to lose? I really am curious as to what you mean.
They did, before MMR my matches would be more unpredictable. The main problem with this game is, it's most efficient strategies are very unfun to play and play against and the devs don't want to do something against it as it seems.
Back then people tried more BS because it didnt really matter, every decent player was in red ranks and you just played for fun and BP. There wasn't as much knowledge about the mechanics, it was more a casual party game experience, you just brought into the trial what you wanted. Now with all the rank rewards and MMR shizzle, people realized they have to tryhard every game which finally showed many flaws this game hast once everyone really tries to win...
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331690#Comment_3331690
Ok, yes, he is a very strong killer, ONLY if you put the hours in to learn him. So many people try blight, get absolutely bullied and don’t play him again. I have put a large chunk of my playtime into blight (over 1k hours). Blight as he is, is completely balanced. The common ground I will give you, is a couple of his addons could use rework (alch ring & c33).
Many times I will load into a game with no addons, and only shadowborn and it leads to some considerably close games. Last night I had a SWF 4 man out against me addonless. His basekit is not OPAF as you say.
So every killer should just trash solo's in any match without much effort? Sounds like a balanced experience to me, maybe you should play survivor for a while. Yes, mastering Blight takes a while due to maps and stuff (compared to Nurse), but once you're on a specific level you will just win most your games, if you have some talent for him and know how to efficiently play killer in general. The game isn't supposed to be balanced around "Shadowborn and nothing else" lol, imagine you could easily win without perks against a good swf with 4x4 meta perks. I played Spirit in comp tournaments for a while against heavily coordinated teams and great chasers and even i lose many of my matches in pubs if i don't use perks or add-ons with her (she's weaker than Blight though). As i said, once you get to a certain level, there is not much even a good team can do against a good Blight on many balanced maps, as the only counterplay against good Blights are pallets (there are some duck-techs but those only work inconsistently and the Blight can play around it). But in the end it depends on maps, perks and add ons a lot.
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if you look at the 2 years-view, yes it's slowly dying but i think it's probably normal, nearly no game is growing playerbases forever and the game is nearly 6 years old. They made some bad decisions that prevented the game from keeping its high playerbase peaks, and i think some obviously needed changes are coming WAY too slow, but the core playerbase is very loyal (i know some guys who are complaining about dbd 24/7 but still play it every day).
A lot of the casual dbd players are playing solo survivor. It slowly started being less fun after the MMR changes and the gameplay changes that came with it (more efficiency-based playstyles on both sides that are just less fun to play against). I also think the last meta changes weren't good at all, first i was happy about it happening because the old meta was kinda stale, but the game definitely felt less fun afterwards on BOTH sides, after testing it for a while.
I probably was also a bit burned out, playing this game competitively for 9 months with nearly 3h playtime every day. I haven't started it since a month and i don't really miss it (i'm just here because i heard about the nurse nerfs <3), but i plan to give it another chance when the solo buffs are finally coming.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242044#Comment_3242044
"The majority." We're not talking about the majority are we? This is about viability. Like I said, all killers are viable, with no perks or add-ons + 30-second AFK... against inefficient survivors. Tournament killers do in fact leave the hook sometimes when they see that it's less beneficial of their time to stay at the hook. High MMR killers make the same decisions, improvising when a new situation arises. Just to get the first down on a survivor, and potentially camping them, is executed the exact same way whether it's in tournament or high MMR. The tournament survivors also don't have to let the person die on first hook. Nothing is stopping them from doing 3 gens, hook bombing with 2 while 1's still on gen, the unhooked having OTR/DS/etc, and then them still having enough time to finish the gens, into Adrenaline, into exit gate open, into body blocks, into all 4 getting out. Tournament killers are not these magical beings that power through the rules of the game and somehow guarantee 2-3 kills more than high MMR killers do.
If a killer isn't played, like at all, in tournaments, or they don't do well in the slightest when they do, what does that tell you about the state of the game? That is the question I've been asking for weeks. I'm tired of people hiding behind any slight differences in play between tournaments and top MMR to avoid answering the question. If anything, the survivors are allowed far less OP stuff in tournament, so wouldn't the survivors in top MMR have a greater advantage over the killer than the ones in tournament?
Low tier killers like Wraith, Clown, Legion, Ghostface etc are played in tournaments, they have specific maps and specific rules, which perks are allowed etc., it really depends on the tournament and it's rules. But it's just wrong to say only high tier killers are played because they're the best.
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@Kosturko92 said:
To everyone, check out this video and you will see how Broken SWF teams are
Are you serious? Knightlight is a competitive player and ETERNAL is one of the best teams in the world, they won an insane amount of tournaments. This was a tournament game with tournament rules, which means it's like a completely different game (every perk only once, lots of perks generally banned, only brown items or yellows, only specific add ons, map is set for every killer). They play with clock callouts to navigate which 99% of the swf's you will encounter never do.
Btw i played against this guy in a tournament and tunneled the ######### outta him, could be a 3k but was only a 2k because i sucked. They're not unbeatable under tournament rules. This video doesn't prove anything.
From my own experience as killer with nearly 4k hours, SWF is only unbeatable when everything comes together (busted items, busted perk combinations x4, surv sided map). The rest of the time there is much luck and decision making involved, for example who you chase first (the worst or the best looper, the guy with Prove who can't do gens now or the guy with DS?).
Also don't expect to win while playing "fair". Not saying it's fun or fair for the survivor but getting someone out of the game quickly is "comp standard" and the most efficient way to play the game, while going for spreading hook stages will often not net you kills. Doesn't mean that's bad though, i'm way past the mindset were i need to 4k every game to be satisfied, because i know i'm better than most players and i know that it means absolutely nothing when i get bodied by some tryhard SWF with 4 toolboxes, 2x prove and 4x DH.
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@ButterFlee13 said:
Here is my explanation what is slugging to all survivor.
Slugging is not for delay pick up. It is for split pressure. Which means, one other survivor need to come pick up the down, while killer chase another one. 3 Way Survivor pressure.
Now survivor can just pick themselves up with free perk slot. without requirement for someone to help.
Oh BTW, slugging is high risk too and normally, low mmr or mid mmr killer rarely do that.
Camping, Tunneling, Slugging (Looks like only two strats in high mmr left now. 25% efficiency of tunneling is the way)
Nothing is kinda left. Reassurence makes sure camping is not worth it or only for a trade with nearly all gens getting done. Tunneling with BT and OTR means you have to hit them 2 times again every time they get unhooked. As long as survivors abuse these strategies and play coordinated, they will get 3man escape every time.
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Break 3 gens at the beginning. On some maps like Suffocation Pit you can have 4 or 5 gens on one side, which is very strong for the killer cause he doesn't have to leave this side but you're forced to do gens there eventually.
If you don't see a typical 3-gen, do the middle gens first or the ones in unsave positions (deadzones without pallets or vaults.)
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@SkeletalElite said:
You did get the same treatment.
You know in the update that increased the kill rate to over 60%?
only at low MMR, i promise you. Nothing has changed at higher MMR levels because survs actually adapted and abuse the new perks and metas.
@TotemSeeker91 said:
We did... it's called brutal strength and STBFL
survs got Basekit BT, 20 seconds BT (this is insane actually), Reassurence (makes camping not worth it) and OTR (another great anti tunnel). So basically camping and tunneling is impossible, now slugging will be completely dead.
How the future games will be: killer will play the "chase - down - hook - chase -etc" game, until he has like 5-6 stages (if he is good!), that's it, then all gens will be done on most maps and all 4 survivors will escape. Killer will be degraded to the "survivor-entertainer" role again because any viable strategy that EVERY high MMR killer had to use against good survs is easily countered by perks and mechanics, and not skill.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
UB should not be buffed, it is 22,5 seconds to pick up. I am pretty sure SWFs will abuse it.
But basekit UB is pretty good and healthy change.
the timings are way too good for survivor side. 22,5 seconds with Unbreakable? How do you even slug now for 2 downs (which was the essential playstyle for good players against good teams, watch some tournaments). How do you even use powers now like Onis or the Twins? Killer will be forced to play very dull (down, hook, down, hook), there is no risk - reward play involved anymore. A good survivor team is good because they are organized and coordinated, they can detect and play around a slugging killer. Now bad survivors get carried again.
Yea i understand a 4man slugging nurse is very boring but at least make the numbers like 50-60 seconds and 75% faster with Unbreakable. A good 4man swf with 4x Unbreakable is basically denying the killer any form of pressure because the dumb "down-hook-search-chase-down-hook-search-etc." game doesn't work as people want it to do. You cannot 12-hook a good survivor team if you're not Nurse or Blight (and even then it gets hard on some maps).
If you want to completely deny tunneling (20 sec BT, basekit old BT, OTR meta), camping (new Reassurence meta) and slugging (unlimited basekit UB) it's fine, but you can't just do that without giving killers something in return. The first thing would be to balance ALL maps (make them smaller etc) so that abominations like Eyrie of crows, gardens of joy, the game or fractured cowshed don't exist anymore.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Solution to this conundrum: don't slug for the 4k.
lol what? this is not about the slug for the 4k, it's about an incoming Unbreakable meta which makes killers like Oni or Twins unplayable because you can't use their power probably
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192112#Comment_3192112
MMR by definition obscures balance. Let's say that you are a mediocre killer, just for arguments' sake. The update is released which objectively makes killers stronger. This is backed up by data, killers are on average killing more survivors in more matches. When the change went live, the groups of survivors that you would have been paired up with before are now no longer a match for you. This would lead your MMR to increase despite the fact that you remain a mediocre killer (for argument's sake of course). Now from your perspective, after the change, somehow games have gotten harder. From your perspective I can see how you would feel that the truth is that killers have actually gotten weaker.
I'll share with you my perspective. From my perspective, I'm winning more games then ever as killer. I've stopped running slow-down perks altogether and I'm absolutely bored with killer.
are you playing blight mostly? because thats another thing, the high-tier killers are now stronger than ever but the weaker M1 based ones don't feel that much stronger once you reached an higher mmr level
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@konchok said:
I am going to say something and I want you to take it to heart.
You are not going to win every match. You are not entitled to any kills at all. Survivors being able to beat you, especially if they are playing well as you've described is intended.
Read that to yourself 10 times.
that's absolutely not what i was trying to say but okay...
the general vibe in the forum and in dbd was "killer is too easy and it's impossible to escape now" and that is maybe true for some regions but in high MMR the game doesn't feel that easy and survivors just adapted. That's all i wanted to say.
I also forgot to mention one point: there are no s-tier killer perks anymore. Like there are some that are "good" but it's not like before where you had Corrupt/Pop/Ruin/Noed/Pain Res and all of those worked on a lot of killers and you always had good value.
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next one (happened after a match was finished and i wanted to go back to lobby screen):
Unhandled Exception: EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION reading address 0x000000004aee0570
nvwgf2umx {0x0000000000000000} + 1633762 bytes
nvwgf2umx {0x0000000000000000} + 12082447 bytes
nvwgf2umx {0x0000000000000000} + 12082314 bytes
nvwgf2umx {0x0000000000000000} + 12036605 bytes
nvwgf2umx {0x0000000000000000} + 5810378 bytes
nvwgf2umx {0x0000000000000000} + 19965672 bytes
kernel32 {0x0000000000000000} + 94260 bytes
ntdll {0x0000000000000000} + 337489 bytes
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3181176#Comment_3181176
Call of Brine helps to mitigate the beginning 75% regression speed as it makes it 175%, and this then can ramp up 300%
really? does it stack like this to 300%?
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3180071#Comment_3180071
It's hard to tell if your post is ironic because people complain about literally everything. Heck, I still don't know if Sluzzy's posts are serious. You pointed out that most Wraith players use NOED. I can neither agree nor disagree because I rarely face them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3179992#Comment_3179992
Perks: CoB, Overcharge, Eruption and Bamboozle (<--- there are better perks, but it's a QoL thing)
AddOns: Swift Hunt, Shadowdance
As long as I'm not playing against a well-coordinated team, it's an autowin.
Why use Overcharge in this build? Only for the skillcheck?
Wraith is fine with Noed, he is weak against survivors on surv-sided maps, you will barely be able to prevent all gens from starting against actually decent survivors, so having Noed is like an insurance.
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its definitely very unfun and there should be a mechanic to counter it instead of holding m1 for minutes. There is like absolutely no reason to waste your time like this, not for the hooked survivor, not for other survivors who just hold m1 and leave and also not for the killer. The is no fun involved in this mechanic.
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She has very easy mechanics and some more or less useful tricks (like double birds). The rest is experience and a lot of game sense. Knowing where to set birds in loops (kinda easy), knowing how to counter swf surv tactics (taking birds for injured players etc), knowing where to send birds over the map... it's a lot of prediction too.
I think she's not a hard killer but requires a lot of experience if you go against experienced survivors.
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My games have been much harder in the past 1-2 weeks. Survivors and the game seem to have adapt in a few ways:
- MMR seem to work better, way more consistent teams who do not suicide on hook or DC, a lot more obvious SWF too. It really seems that the MMR has arranged in a way that more "perk carried" survivors have lost points and the ones who know how to play have gathered MMR points
- they learned which perks are strong and abuseable, eg Prove thyself, Off the record, DH (still great against m1 if you learn how to use it). They use the "distance-making" exhaustion perks like Sprintburst or Lithe to prolong the chase into areas where you have no business, a lot of pallets and can't pressure multiple survivors
- i sometimes don't feel like tunneling hard, but it's unfortunately the only thing that helps against a good team. If i lose the tunnel at 2 stages and they dissapear and hide, i usually don't 4k
- this is probably false and just bad RNG, but it feels like i rarely get to play on more killer sided maps like Shelter Woods, but very often on maps like Garden of Joy or Eyrie of Crows
- maybe the RE chapter have brought back some good high MMR survivors
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Dbd is a very "toxic" game by it's nature and mechanics. It's something i would only recommend if you're in a stable mental condition. If you play too much of it, you easily get frustrated as there are many situations that feel punishing and unfair (for both sides!) and you just have to go through them until the game finally ends. People don't know when to stop and then they keep on playing and fall into a black hole.
Those people you encountered have probably played way too much Dbd recently.