sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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Making it an exhaustion perk doesn’t fix it.
It prevents going to the same corner over and over again, sure, but if there’s any corner you can go to even once and be invincible, that’s already an issue and exhaustion is just a partial band-aid solution.
And that still isn’t fair in regards to the issues it was causing for controller players.
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I agree, the partial progress from those perks shouldn’t be lost.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912744#Comment_2912744
Those changes from the post have been implemented already?
Yes.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912735#Comment_2912735
No their not I'm playing right now and I'm not seeing anyone's ranks meaning it's off
Clearly you didn't read the post I just linked.
The ranks being hidden is a permanent change to help prevent confusion. The MMR system is still on, albeit with some tweaks. Ranks/grades have nothing to do with matchmaking.
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The matchmaking tests are over, but some permanent changes were made to the matchmaking system today in light of the test results. If you'd like to read more about it, you can do so here:
@Peanits said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B9SDLMUAF5CG/mm-test-results.png
Over the past few weeks, we’ve run a series of short matchmaking tests based on various feedback we’ve received. These ranged from making the matchmaker faster, stricter, various combinations in between, and yes, even disabling Skill Based Matchmaking and reverting to the old Grade Based Matchmaking.
We want to start by thanking everyone who took the time to share their thoughts about each of the tests. While we’re able to track things like queue times behind the scenes, your feedback is invaluable when it comes to finding extraordinary cases and for getting an idea of how these changes feel rather than how they perform. Thank you!
We’ve kept the details of the tests a secret until now as to not influence feedback, but since the tests are over, we’re ready to dive in and share some details on what was tested. But first, we need to explain what each of the changes mean.
Fair warning, this is going to be a long and very technical one!
Variables
We have a bunch of settings which we can tweak behind the scenes. Here’s a quick rundown on the ones we changed during the tests.
The first is maximum range. When you search for a match, we try to find other players who are close to your rating (within 50 points). If we aren’t able to do so, the search gradually expands until we’re able to find you a match. By default, this is set to 500 points away from your own rating. This is so you’re guaranteed to get a match after waiting a while, though it may not be the fairest.
The second is expansion time. This is how long it takes to reach the maximum range. By default, this is set to 5 minutes.
Then we have a few switches we can toggle. These are:
Bidirectional matchmaking: Normally once one player has been waiting long enough, other players can be pulled into their match (as long as they’re within the maximum range). Bidirectional matchmaking requires both players to have expanded enough to encompass each other for them to be pulled into the same match. By default, this is off.
If this sounds confusing, don’t worry, it’s complicated. Here’s a little chart to clear things up:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6C9DPL3ANQZK/bidirectional.png
Each player’s actual rating is shown in red, and their current matchmaking search is shown in blue.
- In Example 1, Player A’s search has expanded to cover Player B, but Player B has not yet expanded to cover Player A, so they won’t be matched together.
- In Example 2, both players have expanded enough to cover each other, so they can now be matched together.
- When we use the default (unidirectional) matchmaking, both examples would be eligible for a match.
Grade visibility: This one’s nice and simple. We can switch off grades in the post-match screen since they typically aren’t used for matchmaking. This doesn’t actually have an effect, but we were curious to see how people feel about it and how it affects their perception of matchmaking.
Grade Based Matchmaking: We can switch off Skill Based Matchmaking entirely and instead use Grades for matchmaking. For folks who joined us recently, this is roughly how the matchmaking worked before the introduction of Skill Based Matchmaking.
The Tests
And now, the part you’ve been waiting for: Just what exactly was tested each day? We’ll also share our expectations and how they matched up to the results. Quick disclaimer: We’ll be talking a lot about averages in this section. If this doesn’t line up with your experiences, don’t worry, we’re aware that things can vary depending on a bunch of different factors (time, region, role, rating, etc.).
For the first three tests, we did not expect much of an improvement. These three were meant to test individual variables and see the effect they have on matchmaking. Afterwards, we started to mix these variables to see the impact they would have together.
March 28
Test:
- Expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes)
Expectation: Faster matches, particularly for players in off-peak times, though the quality of matches would be lower.
Results: As expected, wait times dropped significantly across the board (faster than any other day), especially for the players on the extreme ends of the rating spectrum. The quality of matches on average did not change a whole lot, though some players may have noticed a larger gap in skill levels.
Kill rates noticeably changed on the ends of the spectrum, with high rated Killers becoming more deadly and low rated Killers having a harder time. This is likely due to players on the ends of the spectrum being paired with more players from the middle.
March 29
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 250 (from 500)
Expectation: Slower matches, especially for players with extraordinarily high/low ratings and/or in off-peak hours, but higher quality matches in general.
Results: Like we predicted, wait times did increase for players on either end of the spectrum, although players in the middle did not have a noticeable impact on matchmaking times (on average). Overall, this test only slightly reduced the average rating difference compared to a non-test day, though curiously, players on the far ends of the spectrum may have seen an increase.
March 30
Test:
- Enable bidirectional matchmaking
Expectation: Longer queue times for players in off-peak hours & players at the extreme end of the rating spectrum, but fairer matches for players that get matched quickly.
Results: Longer queue times were an understatement; some players were experiencing exceptionally long queue times (15 minutes+). This is because there weren’t enough players to match them against in their region & skill level at the time they were playing, and players who were ‘close enough’ to their skill level would not get matched with them unless they also were unable to find a match.
This is longer than we’d ever like anyone to wait. To play it safe, we cut this test short and altered it a few hours in. A hard cap was added to switch back to the default unidirectional matchmaking after someone had been waiting for 5 minutes. This cap was used for all future tests where bidirectional matchmaking was used.
Of all the tests, this one reduced the average rating difference the most, cutting it by roughly a third. However, the long queue times make this a fairly unappealing solution.
March 31
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 250 (from 500), expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes)
Expectation: Players who already get quick matches may notice a slight drop in quality, but players on the far ends may find matches quicker. On the other hand, the lowered range may limit the pool of players to match with on the far ends of the rating spectrum.
Results: Queue times for Survivors were faster across the board, but Killer queue times had no noticeable difference. In terms of kill rates, on the mid-high end of skill groups, kill rates dropped slightly (closer to 50%) while the lower groups remained mostly the same. This test also earned the second biggest reduction in average rating difference of all the tests.
April 4
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 350 (from 500), expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes), enable bidirectional matchmaking
Expectation: Matchmaking may be slower for some players, but the quality of matches should be improved.
Results: Survivor queue times were faster across the board, while Killer queue times remained mostly the same (with the exception on the far low end of skill ratings). Kill rates, meanwhile, climbed slightly at the highest skill levels and remained mostly unchanged at the lower end. The average rating difference didn’t decrease noticeably with this test.
April 7
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 350 (from 500), expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes), enable bidirectional matchmaking, grades hidden
Expectation: More or less the same results as the previous test, as all the variables are the same.
Results: We were curious to see what kind of impact hiding grades would have on the feedback we received, since grades are no longer used for matchmaking (though they can give the impression that they’re a measure of skill). For this test, we ran all the same variables, only we hid grades as well. This way we could compare feedback to the previous test to see how grades affected the sentiment.
To our surprise, the overall feedback appeared slightly more positive with grades hidden. When directly comparing opinions from folks who left feedback on both the April 4th & 7th tests, we discovered that the feedback was usually the same if not better when grades were hidden. We opted to leave grades hidden over the weekend.
April 11 - 12
Test:
- Switch to Grade Based Matchmaking
- (April 12th only: Show grades)
These tests were added later as we started to see more speculation about the tests. Occasionally someone would predict that one of the things we were testing was the old matchmaking system, and we figured hey, why not give it a shot?
Expectation: Matches would have a lot more variety in player skill, very similar to the old Rank Based Matchmaking. We also expected to see the average grade difference to fall dramatically.
Result: As we suspected, reports of one-sided matches started flooding in. We can also confirm this on our end; the average kill rates for this day saw the most dramatic change yet, with the highest skill levels rocketing up to roughly 80% (>3 kills per match on average) and plummeting to around 20% (<1 kill per match on average) on the lower end of the spectrum. The average grade difference, however, decreased significantly, as expected.
Now to be clear, this is not quite the same as the old Rank Based Matchmaking. For starters, grades reset all the way back to Bronze I while ranks only reset one colour tier, and it’s not possible to lose grades anymore. We wanted to give it a fair shot, so we specifically set this test as close to the grade reset as possible to give people the largest window to settle into their grades. (This is also why the last day was cut short: We didn’t want to leave the test running over the grade reset since that would have everyone matches against anyone.)
Furthermore, a 1-2 day test is not the same as leaving it on for an extended period of time. Given more time (and the ability to lose grades), we expect that people facing far too difficult opponents would eventually have their grades drop to a place where they’re more comfortable, while folks who are consistently overperforming would climb.
Ultimately, though, this highlights a big issue with using grades (or ranks) for matchmaking: A very experienced player who just hasn’t played a lot lately can very easily be paired against players that are new to the game. As we’ve learned in the past, grades/ranks are a stronger indicator of playtime than skill.
This test was very polarizing, but interestingly, we started to see more positive feedback when we started showing grades again. This indicates that there’s definitely a strong connection between seeing grades in the post match screen and the sentiment about a match.
Learnings
We’ve learned that the strictness of the matchmaking and the quality of the matches is without a doubt linked. Looser conditions had a notable effect on kill rates, opponent variety, and also the feedback we received. While the larger variety in opponents was appreciated by some, there was an opposite reaction from others who were now struggling in tougher matches. Simply put, on the other side of any casual match- where one player can win without trying- is a person who’s having a bad time despite trying their best.
On the other hand, the inverse is also true. Stricter matchmaking brought the kill rates closer to the middle, but many found the matches to be too competitive to enjoy. While folks in the lower groups of skill rating would have fewer unfair matches, the higher end of skill groups ended up in tough matches filled with meta perks & Killers.
These tests overall highlighted two distinct groups:
- High skill players who want more variety in their matches
- Lower-mid skill players who, understandably, don’t want to get destroyed by high skill players
The biggest takeaway here is that going too far either way is never a one-size-fits-all solution. What we’d often notice is how some players loved a particular test because they were seeing more variety in their opponents, but at the same time, those same tests were also frustrating to a lot of people who were suddenly getting matched with people way better than them. Neither person is wrong in this scenario: Each of them just expects something different from matchmaking.
Lastly, we have discovered that hiding grades on the post-match screen definitely influences the feedback we receive. We suspect this is for two reasons: 1) Long time players who may have missed the matchmaking changes could still thinking that grades are used for matchmaking. And 2) Some players still feel like grades are an indicator of skill in spite of not being used for matchmaking. Most importantly, however, we found that there was a lot of support for hiding grades, so this is something we’ll be considering as a permanent change going forward.
Next Steps
With all these learnings in mind, we have a solution that will improve matchmaking for both groups of players. We will be making the following changes shortly:
- Reducing the maximum range
- Reducing the expansion time proportionally (so it’s no faster or slower than before)
- Lowering the effective cap for skill ratings
- Removing grades from the post-match screen for the foreseeable future
Why these changes?
As mentioned in the learnings, we found two dominant groups:
- High skill players who want more variety
- Lower-mid skill players who want even matches
In order to make both groups happy, we first need to isolate them from each other. To do this, we’ll reduce the maximum expansion range. This will help keep players of similar skill levels together, reducing the number of one-sided matches. The majority of players fall in the middle of the spectrum, so there is still plenty of people to match with. Additionally, since it seems like the expansion is happening at a good rate, we’ll be adjusting the expansion time proportionally.
Next, we need to consider how this will affect the high skill group. Reducing the range would mean less variety. Fortunately, we have another variable to tweak that solves this issue perfectly. For the purposes of matchmaking, we have a “cap” for skill ratings. Although your rating can continue to climb beyond this cap, you’ll be treated as if you’re at the cap for the purposes of matchmaking. This is in place to prevent the best players out there from climbing to a point where there’s simply nobody to match with.
By lowering this cap, we’re able to expand the pool of players in high skill matches, leading to more variety in the opponents you face. One match may be very close and competitive, but the next may be a little more laid back. This will also ensure that queue times don’t grow longer at higher skill levels.
Lastly, we’ll be removing grades from the post match screen. When we originally hid grades during the test, we saw a lot of people asking for this to be made permanent. Additionally, long time players who may have missed the news could often think that grades were still used for matchmaking, leading them to feel like the match was less fair than it actually was. These, combined with the generally more positive feedback during the tests while they were disabled, were enough of a reason for us to disable them for the foreseeable future.
For the future, we’re still hard at work implementing various improvements to the matchmaking system. These include making Survivor ratings team based rather than personal (so dying heroically to save everyone else isn’t as punishing) and improvements to backfilling lobbies to prevent players from outside of the acceptable range from being pulled in. These improvements will take longer to implement, but rest assured, work is already underway on them. You can find a full list of changes we’re looking into in our January Developer Update.
Once again, we want to thank everyone who took the time to leave feedback throughout the tests. Understanding not just how the matchmaker performs, but also how it feels is incredibly important for us to make improvements. As always, we’ll be keeping a close eye on the matchmaking system moving forward and making small adjustments as necessary. Please keep the feedback coming!
The Dead by Daylight team
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@AntiJelly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912498#Comment_2912498
I agree, how flashlights function is perfectly fine. The main thing I'm focusing on is the sheer amount of charges you can put on flashlights at the moment. It's way too overboard.
Is it though? I never felt like the amount of charges on flashlights was a problem.
I get what you’re going for, but 4 seconds would not last very long at all and the extra blindness duration is not really worth it/this is by far a net nerf.
I like your Power Bulb rework though.
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They don’t need to buff spirit, they just need to change iron will.
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Flashlights overall are probably the most balanced item in the game right now. Everything else still needs a lot more changes.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912420#Comment_2912420
I followed every thing you said every time, and I haven't understood for the hatch: as survivor do you gain or lose MMR? And as killer?
Hatch escape is treated as if that survivor was never in the trial. They talked about this in a Q&A stream. Their rating doesn’t go up and the killer doesn’t lose anything for that survivor escaping.
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Absolutely agree. Looks better than just a generic icon that doesn't really mean anything.
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If you're not within 40m of the killer, then either deceive them by going one way and then going the other way after BBQ ends, or hide behind a gen aura if you really care about not having your aura revealed. These perks aren't a problem.
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It’s only potentially up to 4 minutes if someone is downed or hooked. It’s 2 minutes if not.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911930#Comment_2911930
Would be more of a gimmick thing but it would be cool if you could use keys to instantly open chests
That'd be thematic at least. I wouldn't mind that change.
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Keys in general could use some sort of additional functionality (not just green keys) as well as an addon rework.
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Remove the DC penalty and watch the already obnoxiously high rate of DCing skyrocket like it always does anytime the penalty is disabled.
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I wouldn't have a problem with those changes. At the very least #1 should 100% be implemented.
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Ran into this the other day too. At first I thought they had calm spirit and IW and then I realized they didn’t and it was the cosmetic glitch. Please fix.
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Do you have a video of this? Might be helpful to figure out what’s going on.
Are you sure the toolbox you found wasn’t just empty?
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Wait it doesn’t work on an instadown?
That 100% should be changed
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Can confirm. I believe this has been in the game since the Artist release.
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I've done it twice, both times while not even going for it.
First time was plague with thrill of the hunt, thana, plaything, pentimento. Set up 1 totem which they didn't cleanse and then they ended up breaking all the other 4 so I relit those 4 at once and got it.
Second time was spirit with a build I don't even remember but the survivors just gave it to me by cleansing dull totems. It never should've happened.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910553#Comment_2910553
Well, the devs have shown they don't understand how to fix it, because they don't understand WHY it's broken.
- Give it charges. Once <x> amount of healing is done in it; it snuffs on it's own.
- Give it limited uses; once that Survivor has Booned with CoH <x> amount of times; CoH no longer activates when Booning.
Even still, that doesn't fix anything else about the rest of the perks. Boons being unlimited means individual boon perks can only be so good without being busted. I would rather they just change the system in general and then readjust each of the 4 perks to be balanced with those changes, rather than having to make special exceptions to the rules for COH.
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910533#Comment_2910533
Perks are there to help each side achieve their goal. I run adrenaline on all my survs. I also think running a No Way Out, Blood Warden, Noed build for giggles produces some good fun. Much like Mad Grit. Besides that means all match the killer had no perks cept BBQ
Forgive me for having fun.
And I'm not saying you can't have fun, to be clear. If my only two options were to delete DH and NOED or to do nothing to them, I would delete them. But in an ideal world I would want DH to be nerfed and NOED to be reworked into something that has the same general idea as an endgame perk but doesn't feel so cheap, rather than just deleting both perks entirely.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of an endgame build.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910540#Comment_2910540
Yep- exactly.
CoH is broken because it shatters the intended purpose of boons, breaks the established rules that the other three have as standard, and provides far, far too much value for the downsides that it has. Its upcoming nerf will alleviate that a little, but I still think it needs a little work.
This reads like you're disagreeing with me, so just to be abundantly clear - I was talking about boons in that message, not Circle of Healing specifically.
The thing is, if COH is nerfed to the point where it's no longer a net time gain, then survivors will mostly just stop using boons altogether, because the rest of the perks aren't really worth it by themselves generally speaking. Shadow step can work sometimes but the other two are just bad.
While I get what you're saying about boons not being the same as hexes, I would still argue the boon system is extremely poorly designed regardless. COH simply is the biggest offender because it's by far the most powerful boon perk. Nerfing it is just solving one smaller component of an overall bigger issue that can't be solved by only adjusting COH.
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@DrDeepwound said:
If noed goes, adrenaline goes.
Adrenaline is not really comparable to NOED imo. The only thing they have in common is that they share the same trigger condition.
Adrenaline rewards the survivors for successfully completing the majority of their objective, while NOED rewards the killer for failing to stop the gens. There's a big difference.
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16 seconds by default, but if you hit all the great skill checks (with the beta system) then it's 15 seconds. No other way to make it faster without the help of a perk unless you intentionally drop a survivor.
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Well if this is true then that's really nice to hear.
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I'd agree to that in a heartbeat. DH is overpowered and I hate noed.
(edit: I play around 70/30 in favor of survivor)
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Please dont nerf boons
NERF COH
if you nerf other boons they will become worse then they allready are. i dont want to see 3 more perks get thrown into f tier.
If you just nerf COH and don't change anything else the entire mechanic will just disappear. Boons wouldn't get used hardly at all because they wouldn't be worth it. Already nobody uses the other boon perks unless they're using COH with it.
@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
How about a Hex cannot be Booned, they is so annoying knowing they can reignite it again and again while your Hex is gone for good.
All that does is incentivize killers to run full hex builds so survivors can't use their perks. The hex blessing penalty system is fine the way it is and that's not the issue with boons.
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It's not a bad idea necessarily, but idk about making certain exhaustion perks even stronger than they already are.
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/319669/new-survivor-item-the-water-bottle
The developers need to fix the other 2 items before adding another. Keys are worthless and Flashlights need a buff of some sort, they are to weak right now.
If anything all items need some tweaks. Medkits and toolboxes are too strong, keys and maps are mostly too weak. I think flashlights are mostly okay, although some of their addons could use some adjustments (mainly buffs) and more variety in what they do. Double locker saves need to be removed though.
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Yes 100%. Survivors are not individuals, they are a team. If I could have escaped, but I died in order to ensure my teammate's escape when they otherwise would have died, I don't consider that a loss on my end. This change would also promote more altruistic gameplay instead of leaving teammates behind in endgame who can realistically be saved.
Now it might make some sort of sense to have it based on both your performance and your team as a whole, but it should not be based off just whether you escaped and nothing more.
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I think it's still going to be decent with just the pallet break honestly. You can also still run it with susie's mixtape to get 60 meters of tracking which is pretty big. All with 3 second fatigue instead of 4.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910113#Comment_2910113
Overrated: Onryo and Spirit.
For some reason, some people still reckon Onryo's on the same level as Plague and Artist and that Spirit is 'S' tier, ahead of Huntress and just behind Blight.
I enjoy Spirit, but outside of the MDR/blossom addon combo she's not that strong. Probably mid 'A' tier.
Onryo is 'C' tier, at best.
Meh I still think spirit is #3, just not above blight anymore.
100% agree on Sadako in C tier, though I didn’t even think that was an unpopular opinion. I’ve seen some people say she’s better than that but not that many. But she is absolutely not on the level of plague, artist, and huntress.
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There’s not much point now.
They could use an addon rework and maybe even gain some sort of extra baseline effect (at least so green keys aren’t completely useless on their own), but reverting the hatch nerf is not the solution.
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Underrated: Deathslinger. Even after the nerf he’s still pretty decent, you just need to actually aim now. I will admit I almost always run monitor on him now though.
Can’t think of anyone who I think is overrated honestly.
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Pentimento. Survivors put back together broken totems for 30% repair speed bonus.
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devour hope
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If it follows past patterns which is 3 weeks from the PTB then it would be on the 26th. But it has not been officially confirmed as of yet.
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I think it's fine the way it is. It's not really a perk you're meant to use without bringing a medkit or some other form of healing imo
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909249#Comment_2909249
Assuming you actually put your Boon in an intelligent spot, you're still almost always going to get mega value even with the newest nerf.
Yeah basically.
I've been refusing to bring the perk as survivor, but I tried it again on the PTB just to make sure it was still busted. Confirmed as much pretty quickly.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
The upcoming nerf will kick CoH in the nuts. Setting up a Boon and then healing will take longer than using Self-Care, which means snuffing the Boon is now worth it
Booning + healing is already longer than self care now, but just barely.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909185#Comment_2909185
That is why it shouldn't have been put into live and first done some very good testing before adding it.
The problem with BHVR and adding/buffing/nerfing things is that they either only do it slightly and barely make a difference, or over do it and making it a problem.
But it's most of the time that they over do it unfortunately
Absolutely agreed. I never felt like it was well thought out from the start.
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The problem at this point is, if you just nerf COH to the point where it's no longer a problem, that would probably mean nerfing it into something completely useless, meaning boons as a whole will just die because they won't be worth bringing.
I do not think there is a solution to boon totems that doesn't involve changes to the base mechanics, because as it is now they're either going to be overpowered or not be worth a survivor's time or perk slot despite being an unlimited resource.
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When you factor in the cost of the offering, you’re not really getting much.
With the brown for example, the most you can get for 50% bonus in one category is 4000, and the offering costs 3000.
Yellow, max is 6000, offering is 4000.
Green, max is 8000, offering is 5000.
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Tinkerer removes the terror radius.
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The cooldown is redundant anyway. You're only going to get hooks every so often, generally speaking.
I honestly wonder how good it would be if it just applied exhausted to ALL survivors, and hemorrhage to injured survivors.
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@danielmaster87 said:
...So what are you saying?
What they’re asking for is essentially a nerf to medkits that will only matter sometimes and won’t always make a difference.
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I still see him every now and then. He’s not as rare as several other killers are.
He will probably become more rare as more time goes by but we’re not really there yet.
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He’s good but he’s not op.
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@Cybil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2908319#Comment_2908319
I've been seeing survivors use this perk more and more. I wouldn't call it bad at all considering it hard counters lethal pursuer and the bbq repellent is very strong in the right situations.
The extra 4th token it received doesn't seem like a huge buff on paper but in reality I think it helped it a lot.