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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009825#Comment_1009825
Except those more balanced killers that move at the same speed as him don't cross the map in less than the duration of BBQ, have an instadown that requires 0 setup, can patrol every gen in 10 seconds flat, and can down people at the start of the match when the only counter is to literally cross your fingers and hope you spot him coming around blind corners faster than you can possibly outrun his turning. They also don't have training wheel add ons that remove any skill from the power.
Billy is gross.
If you legitimately have issues with Billy then you don't have skill with survivor. Anyone with any skill in survivor all agree that Billy has a seriously underwhelming power that is only useful for mobility, and then ######### him at loops because of his slow movement speed.
Recognize the double standard.
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@ReallyBigShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010125#Comment_1010125
I think you should actually respond to his points.
He wont cause he doesn't have any. He just wants to ######### that the game isn't being handed to him and knowing how literally useless these developers are they'll listen to him and make Billy useless, most likely by adding another god damn cooldown like they seem to enjoy getting off on. I swear the balance team is a bunch of 8 year olds who play strictly survivor and then ######### to each other about losing in a PvP game.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009946#Comment_1009946
LMAO both sides are so damn stuck in their views it's obscene.
Billy. Is. Fine. Instasaw add-ons are not. Just because 'it's not actually insta' doesn't mean it's not grossly overpowered and doesn't lack any form of real counterplay
It doesn't lack counterplay. If you genuinely think that, you are seriously unskilled as a survivor. Even instasaw has easy counterplay. Either get to a loop and make his power useless, or juke him when he saws and make his power useless. In both cases, he's an m1 killer with a useless power. Where else have we seen that?
Pretty much every single other ######### killer. Cause the Devs love to pretend like they give a ######### about killer and give them cool sounding powers, and then make them useless before they're released.
Recognize the double standard.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009957#Comment_1009957
Yes all killers need to have an instadown as their primary attack and be able to cross the map in seconds and back again.
Balanced for a 4k.
First off, the insta down isn't his primary attack. It can be dodged and can be done so very, very easily. Second off, several killers can cross the map in seconds. It doesn't matter how fast you can travel because you still waste time looping and the generators are done so fast that you could be everywhere at once and you'd still not be able to stop all the generators.
Second, you literally just contradicted yourself. You tried to describe Billy and then say it's "balanced for a 4k". If that was the case, wouldn't Billy 4k every single game? Then why do I rarely, rarely, rarely, rarely see him 4k ever? Why do I see him rarely played if he's supposed to 4k every game? Wouldn't he be played every game then?
Recognize the double standard.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009952#Comment_1009952
You act like revving up the chainsaw is a huge downside then say it’s me that needs to get practise in....the irony.
It takes about 2.5 seconds to charge that chainsaw base, but everyone runs add ons to decrease this. He then moves at 230% speed across the entire map, and then again his cooldown is just a few more seconds.
So about 2 seconds of charging, 230% speed travel with unlimited range and then a few seconds cooldown. You’re seriously going to act like this isn’t that good?
Compare that to Freddy who has to wait 45 seconds before he can use his teleport again and it takes about 8-10 seconds to even complete a teleport.
Or Spirit who moves at 176% speed but her power only lasts long enough to make it a short way across the map then she has a 15 second recharge period.
Closest is Demogorgan with the portals but even those have a 14 second cooldown unlike Hillbilly and they can be destroyed meaning he can’t travel at all.
Also none of the above killers have instadowns let alone an unlimited number of them.
You’re being very defensive in your forum posts recently I’ve noticed. Not going to lie it smells of bias. I can’t believe you’re going to sit here and tell me Hillbillys power isn’t that good and then act like everyone else needs to improve.
Imagine accusing someone of bias and talking the way you do. That's just hilarious.
His power is damn near mobility only. All you have to do to avoid it is not be asleep and know how to press keys on your keyboard. If you get hit by his chainsaw consistently, then that's an issue with you as a player, not the killer. Stop bitching to have the game handed to you. Learn to play.
Recognize the double standard.
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@SunderMun said:
Base billy needs no nerf; instasaw is the only thing that needs nerfing.
Nothing with Billy needs a change. He's fine how he is. I have no trouble with Insta-Saw, nor do I have problems with Billy in general.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010121#Comment_1010121
Who do you see then?
At rank 1? Nobody. I haven't faced a rank 1 killer in weeks. Nobody with half a brain wants to play killer with the way it is. What I used to see was primarily Spirits (who promptly lost to gen times), Nurses (who promptly lost to a now useless killer), and Freddy (who lost to being looped to death). Every other killer was so unmemorable because the games didn't last more than 5 minutes and sometimes I never even saw before we were out. Either that or they were rank 10 or lower. Rank 8 if I was lucky.
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@NDwight88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009853#Comment_1009853
Exactly and ranks 15-20 really have no shot with billy. He needs some sort of rework but killer mains will lose their ######### with another nerf anytime soon.
No game should be balanced around the bottom players. It's been proven time and time and time again with so many other games that balancing around the new players makes the game unbearable to play for anyone who shows an interest and wants to get better. If you balance around the bottom players, you quickly drive away your veteran players and the game will die. If you cannot retain your players you will lose the playerbase as the players who leave decide to leave poor reviews on the game, tell their friends not to play, and the inner workings of the game are revealed. Then the new players stop coming, and the game dies. If you balance for the top players, players who are struggling will get better and enjoy the game as its meant to be. Those who don't have the perseverance to try and get better deserve to leave so we don't get people like you.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009871#Comment_1009871
Less time than other killers. He's not an m1 killer.
If you're at any kind of loop at all he's literally nothing more than an m1 killer, period. If you get chainsawed at loops you are not a good survivor. I started bullying Billys at rank 10 for ######### sake. I rarely see Billys in red ranks, and when I do they rarely get more than 1 kill.
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@NDwight88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/121589/billy-is-not-balanced-please-change-my-mind
No he isn’t at all. Even a rank 18 just starting can wipe a lobby of much lower ranks easily because billy isn’t balanced.
The people saying he’s fine are 100% killer mains who likely play billy to some degree.
If you judge the strength of a killer by their ability to 4k at rank 18 then you seriously have no idea how this game works. At all. Any killer, even the ######### Clown, can 4k at rank 18. I could play Clown with no perks and no addons and 4 man 5 gen the entire team.
Then I could play Clown at rank 1 with Spirit Fury / Enduring, Noed, and idk...there's so few useful killer perks anymore that those 3 might be the only ones. Anyway, I could play sweaty Clown with an Ebony Mori and all his most OP addons and perks and get 0 kills before they're out.
Billy has intense mobility and map pressure but 0 ability to deal with loops as long as the survivor is somewhat competent.
But let me guess, I'm just a "Salty killer main who plays Billy" Huh. Make that argument, I dare you. All you're gonna do is make yourself look even more stupid than you already do.
Recognize the double standard.
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@ClickyClicky said:
He's not. Best speed, best instadown, only killer with both speed and instadowns at any point in the game, Can swing instadowns all game long with no requirements to earn them and no cooldown on his map traversal.
If Billy is as "overpowered" as you claim, why is he so rarely seen?
The answer is that he's easily, easily looped. Average Billy players have no form of anti-loop and the best Billy players are only "anti-loop" against mediocre survivors at best. Judging by the fact that the Devs seem to enjoy balancing around the 10 IQ players he'll probably see a nerf very very soon but realistically you don't even have to be a good survivor to outplay him. His instant down only works if you're out-positioned and even then all you have to do is learn how to dodge the chainsaw and he's literally useless besides some map traversal.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009832#Comment_1009832
I'm a rank 3 , hes the only killer I really cant beat. I'm fine going against spirit and freddy (and nurse but that's super easy now) a lot of people are saying loop him but you cant loop a killer forever especially with how fast he breaks pallets.
also with myers he doesnt have a instadown right away, he has to work up to it .
If he's breaking pallets quickly then that's on you not on him. Learn to fake pallet drops and he'll be a piece of cake. I don't know what else to say since pretty much every high rank and well known player agrees he's not as high as people think.
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@underlord99 said:
He is the only instadown killer that doesnt have a slower movement speed , plus with the way exit gates spawn i feel like he is almost unbeatable(like I said this is how I feel , I am more than willing to have my mind changed). I really want someone to change my mind.
Myers doesn't have a slowed movement speed when he instant downs. He is not unbeatable since he is extremely weak to looping, especially on maps like The Game and Hawkins. What rank are you?
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1008630#Comment_1008630
Biased? Since when did looking at ONE opinion on ONE topic automatically make them biased?
Most survivor stuff is bs but so is a handful of killer stuff. The game is a mess atm.
You especially, suggest removing every skillful things that survivors have spent YEARS learning.
But yeah, I'll listen to the person with a Legion pfp. We all know what happened to Leg
Really. You're gonna pretend like pfps mean their arguments are flawed? You must really lack any kind of intelligence to make an argument like that. It's honestly getting hilarious how dumb your comments are getting. Just quit now dude.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007436#Comment_1007436
They didn't fudge their previous stats that showed the game was broken. Nice try my guy. This is raw data, as flawed as it may be you have to at least shake a stick at it.
The developers themselves said the data was flawed and to not draw conclusions from it. Maybe check to make sure you're right before you pretend like you have any intelligent information on the topic.
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1008590#Comment_1008590
Well don't get mad at me when you keep seeing me quote you with
At least your acknowledging that you're biased so I know to keep in mind that your opinions don't matter :)
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007417#Comment_1007417
Holy hell.
Shut up about "Double Standards" please. I see you saying it everywhere.
There isn't a double standard. The devs will nerf what they feel is problematic. The "Survivor flick" is not problematic at all. It's easy to counter, they're not gonna make any distance, if they try to 360 just stand there and smack them as they're on your camera.
It's that simple
No. I'm not going to shut up about the double standard until the people of this game get it through their skills for hypocritical everyone on both sides of the playerbase are.
The devs make broad claims to justify shitting on the killer side, so let them uphold these claims and apply them where they fit. They refuse to do so and show their bias yet again
Recognize the double standard.
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@TruEternity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006112#Comment_1006112
Here's a well known fact; if survivors are all very skilled and purely want to end the game as fast as possible, ruin did nothing to stop that, it never did. It was a mid skilled slow down perk and a noob stomper, always was.
The wait times for survivors are more based on the changes to matchmaking, since it went to pot after they implemented the new swf parameters. I highly doubt it has to do with the killer population dying off, at least no one knows unless BHVR releases some stats or some such info.
The final point I'll make since I'm getting far off topic is about injuring survivors. If they stay injured they're a one shot, and players are far more likely to drop pallets to prevent the down. That can cause dead zones in parts of the map, and if used strategically leads to easier downs. If they heal, they wasted time and you slowed the game down. Resilience, I see in like one of fifty games, it's a very niche perk, and using it as a point that injuring survivors is bad is silly.
On topic, yes, most here are massive hypocrites and love hyperbole, that's nothing new. But making a topic that boils down to check your survivor privilege irks me. The game is not in a bad spot for killers, the ruin change will not affect the most skilled in the game. I repeated this so many times here, there are most certainly problems for BOTH sides, gen times are not among them, map design is.
Yes it did. Because even the most skilled would make mistakes and those mistakes were sometimes what you needed. With it gone, not only are those mistakes much, much less rare, they're going to move faster when the great skillckecks that they've trained in hitting start making that gen fly.
If you'd payed attention to the community at all you'd recognize how many people are quitting entirely. There are going to be people who quit who don't come to the forum about it and judging by how many here said they were, I'm positive without a doubt that there's even more who haven't said so on the forums and have quit playing killer. I've quit. I'm tired of being ######### on by the devs because these biased dumbasses don't know jack ######### about their own game, and instead pander to the 6 year olds who can't even hit a skillcheck and want the game to be handed to them every time they play.
Injured survivors doesn't mean anything when the killer is too preoccupied with chase, or just simply doesn't have the mobility to push them off the generators. The maps are stupid big and need to be reduced, and the gen times need to be increased not only to give low mobility killers the time they need to get there and do their job, but to give newer killer players time to learn and get better at the game. The devs claim to care for new players, then how about you ######### show it huh devs? Instead of pretending like you aren't completely biased against what used to be half your playerbase? I say used to cause you drove them all away idiots.
This post did not "boil down to check your survivor privilege". It boiled down to the advice I sincerely hope you take to heart as well;
Recognize the double standard.
It's getting annoying. It's killing the game. It's ruining fun for players. It's giving players reason to bully each other. It's creating toxic players. It's creating a game that many people are choosing to not play entirely.
Recognize the double standard.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007499#Comment_1007499
Yet there are people with thousands of hours in this game who are still garbage at it. And there are people with a few hundred hours who are gods. Explain that?
There is a natural level on your skill, depending on how smart you are.
I said usually, not all the time. You're giving anecdotal evidence and it adds nothing to this conversation.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007491#Comment_1007491
Just because someone plays often, does not necessarily mean they are good at the game. That applies everything, not only DBD.
It is all about money with a large company, and appealing to the widest audience.
Playing often almost always literally does mean playing better. Same as someone who plays basketball every day. Or codes every day. Or does math every day. You get better naturally
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007486#Comment_1007486
Not really. As most killers you're much taller than the survivors, so it makes sense that you need to look down to see them. At this point you're just complaining for the sake of complaining. Take the advice if you want to.
I'm complaining over a mechanic that can easily be fixed yet the devs refuse to because of whatever biased ass reason they choose to give.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007475#Comment_1007475
Wrong. While you may be in your prime now, you will realize that as you get older, your gameplay skills may decline. But older people typically have more time and money than younger people.
Deathgarden was balanced for a 4-5 man on comms originally, and it completely died, because the killer was so powerful they absolutely stomped on the solo Qs.
The younger generation are the ones playing most often, and the ones most often asking parents or relatives for money for the game. Families with children are more likely to spend money on their children in this way, and thus flow money into the game in general.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007436#Comment_1007436
More biased than any company you've ever seen? Are you 12?
Literally every competitive game ever has people whining and threatening to quit after every balance patch. Not even to mention real non-video game companies.
Yes more biased than any other video game company I've seen. I challenge you to find one.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007463#Comment_1007463
I used to struggle with that as well - I assume you're playing on console. Try to look slightly towards the ground - at c.a. 60 degrees (90 degrees is looking straight ahead)
Or the could make it so you can see people standing in front of you. You know, like you can in every single other first person game ever.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007459#Comment_1007459
I already stated my reasoning for this before, balancing around the highest ranking players doesn't make enough money.
DBD is a casual game at heart. Red rank solo Q survivor is more like a battle royal than anything.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007451#Comment_1007451
What does that have to do with anything? Even if that was 2-3% of the matches, that would not skew the data enough to justify 65% win rates on most killers.
Youre wrong, actually. Veteran players who are encouraged to stay longer will recruit more friends to play as they get bored, buy more cosmetics more consistently to show their experience and to keep up with what's "popular".
Balancing for low ranks will actually lose money for the company. As players reach high ranks, they will realize the imbalance and share their disgust, thus turning other new players away, and convincing their friends who joined solely for them to quit playing with them. This leads to a smaller playerbase and less income from cosmetics. New players are also significantly less likely to purchase cosmetics because they want to play the game for a set amount of time before committing more money. The rate at which they drop is going to be lower than the rate that stay and purchase these cosmetics, bringing money to the company.
Even if it did make them money, balancing for higher ranks makes more players happy as those in low ranks are content with being "new and bad" and as they get better they enjoy better balanced gameplay. Balancing around low ranks means they expect all matches to be like those, and get frustrated and disheartened as they find out it isn't like that.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007422#Comment_1007422
If they keep spinning continuously and you can't track them for some reason, be it sensitivity or something else, you can always side-step and block their rotation. If you do that they'll just run into you and then you can just smack them
Except that when they run into you, you can't see them because of the god awful pov, so you have no way of knowing whether you stopped them or not
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007436#Comment_1007436
No, I would say they are accurate for solo Q. There are so many games where people just suicide on first hook for no reason, completely handing the killer a 3-4k.
I know DC's are not counted, but they should be, because there's tons of games where my team just DC's and leaves me with 1 other survivor to try and knock out 5 gens, because they are mad they got downed quickly.
We should not be balancing around the weak players. That will be the downfall of the game, and I can show you with evidence from hundreds of other games. You need to balance around high tier gameplay in order to let it trickle down into the lower ranks.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007405#Comment_1007405
Has he made a new experiment or is that still the old one from way back then? Because killers have received many buffs since then.
"Many buffs" lmao they've basically only recieved nerfs with a few select "buffs" with heavy nerfs to "balance" them because god forbid a killer recieves a straight buff without making them weaker in the process.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007318#Comment_1007318
The game is definitely tilted in the killer's favour if the killer is good, but if a team of survivors plays optimally and makes no mistakes, they'll win.
How is that a problem? Killers still win the majority of their games. The game is pretty much balanced as well as it can be considering how different each role is and the vast skill differences between the player base.
If you think the game is in any way balanced you can't be playing higher than green ranks.
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Read my post to immortalls. The statistics shown are a joke at best. They in no way show flawless evidence, and I wouldn't be surprised if the devs inflated numbers or fudged them in some way because these devs are more biased than any company I've ever, ever, ever, seen.
Recognize the double standard.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007351#Comment_1007351
Literally every single killer at red ranks has above a 50% kill ratio. What do the numbers say again?
This data was a joke at best. The numbers were not taken from the pools they needed to be taken from. Not to mention they did not account for suicides, SWF, chase time to gen time, rank of killer, rank of survivors (all survivors since matchmaking is broken), the actual skill of the killer (playing with Noed or SF/E inflates your rank where it shouldn't be), the actual skill of the survivor (survivor rank is a joke even my 6 year old brother can reach rank 1), the builds being run, the perks used, the add-ons used, the playstyle of the killer, the perks being used by the survivors, the add-ons being used by the survivors, the playstyle of the survivors, sandbagging from survivors, cheating on killer side, cheating on survivor side... The list goes on and on and on.
Recognize the double standard.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007301#Comment_1007301
I have yet to see an optimal swf beat 100 optimal killers in a row. Link and I'll follow the herd.
Survivors who know what they're doing and bring the appropriate perks and items (metapocalypse and keys / toolboxes) can put themselves very quickly in a position where they control the game in its entirety. If they lose at that point, they are not optimally playing. The fact that one side can put themselves, consistently, in a position where they are guaranteed to win is the definition of unbalanced and "sided"
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Optimal killer versus optimal swf the winner is not always survivor. The outcome of a match is determined entirely based on killer and map at that point. Sure most killers are weak and most maps are strong for survivors but that doesn't mean the game is survivor sided. This mindset is unfounded and outdated. I don't think killer will ever be stronger tbh. 2 escapes for survivors is not a win despite how bad the pipping system is.
"Most maps are survivor sided and most killers are weak" that's two of several advantages survivors have over killer. That's definition of "sided". You literally contradicted yourself in your own post.
Recognize the double standard.
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@Accullla said:
Survivors do this as a 'last line of defence' sort of thing when they have no other resources around them. The easiest way to counter it is to pay attention to their movement and where they're looking. If they keep looking backwards towards you, you know that 99%of the time they either have the perk dead hard or they'll try to spin you. In either case just don't lunge - wait to see if they dead hard or try to spin - once they're done with their juke just smack them.
This extra time can be used to reach pallets that shouldn't be reached, because you're waiting for a flick that the devs have already stated was unintentional and unbalanced, according to Oni. The devs need to drop this double standard and pay attention to the ######### they say. Worst developers I've ever seen and I played Battlefront.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007251#Comment_1007251
'dared to try and win' LMAO
I didn't say it's only killer mains that are an issue here. Just that that's what this is, and that it's prevalent on the forum. There are definitely plenty of entitled survivor mains here too.
Tbh, both of these groups are prevalent within the game as a whole. It's awful.
Recognize
The
Double
Standard.
It's
Getting
Extremely
Annoying.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007211#Comment_1007211
repairing generators when you don't have anything else to do is not gen rushing, even if you use toolboxes, BNP, Prove Thyself or whatever.
repairing generators while avoiding to cleanse totems, being injured even when able to be healed, a survivor is on the hook and it's going to reach second stage, the killer is coming to you and is presumably going to down you.. that's gen rushing.
At the same time:
downing and hooking the same survivor multiple times in a short amount of time, maybe even eating its DS, that's not tunnelling.
downing and hooking the same survivor multiple times by purposefully avoiding other survivors that are more out-positioned / injured / pushing a generator, even when your chase is not immediately going to end (maybe because a good loop the survivor is going to reach soon) and/or camping a slugged / hid in a locker survivor to wait for its DS to run out, that's tunnelling.
So yeah, both gen rushing and tunnelling are two sides of the same coin: doing something (repairing generators / chasing a survivor) at the expense of the rest.
..and that's now 4 times I explain it lol.
EDIT: in any case, both gen rushing and tunnelling are legit strategies in specific situations. A killer is camping? No point in cleansing totems / healing / trying to rescue if you don't have BT and the killer has insta down: rush generators! You're the killer and generators are running too quickly, but you have a survivor dead on hook? They rescue bomb someone and you are not in a hurry to go elsewhere? Tunnel.
I thank you sincerely for doing that so many times, you have my point exactly. Applause and a cookie for you, you've earned it. 👏🍪
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@whammigobambam said:
I wasn't gen rushing I was being efficient. The only way tunneling is efficient is if some halfwit rushed a hook save. I'm running spine chill and kindred to avoid being the victim of killer "efficiency" some others run ds but I have found that to be sub-par in comparison. I also run detectives hunch and inner strength so I am fighting the noed game as well as any anti heal build.
Tldr tunneling and gen rushing are not similar.
They are exactly the same. The only way they wouldn't be is with the double standard you refuse to acknowledge.
If "gen rushing" is just "being efficient" then so is tunneling. You're trying to do your objective as fast as you can without any regard to what the other player feels. Tunneling is, without question, the most efficient way to kill survivors. The quicker you kill off survivors, the quicker you put the game in your advantage. With 4 survivors, you can have one on hook, one in chase, and one going for the save with generators still getting done. With 3 survivors, you can have one on hook, one in chase, and one going for the save or one doing generators. You can't have both. This means either generators don't get done, or survivors die on hooks. Either way, you gain enormous pressure and it slows the game down to a somewhat manageable level. Once two are dead you've essentially won the game if they haven't done 3 generators, which would've been hard to do in the time it takes to tunnel two survivors dead with old ruin. With new useless ruin it'll be done easily.
So if they're at all different, which they aren't, the only difference would be that gen rushing is worse than tunneling.
Recognize the double standard.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007211#Comment_1007211
Stand still to be killed by entitled people who want easy games and refuse to try and improve on their own skills. :)
This entire thread is just a circlejerk of that kind of person. Heck, a lot of the forum is.
Oh but the threads about killers who are "toxic" because they dared to try and win aren't?
Recognize the double standard. It's getting annoying.
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@stvnhthr said:
The object of a survivors game is to get the gens done as fast as possible and escape. That is there only goal, they are slow, vulnerable, and defenseless. That is the core of the game. What are you suggesting they do instead of completing Gens?
Open chests and break totems you walk by. Find and heal the injured teammate, or find the one being chased and swap in for them. Sabotage hooks around a generator in case a friend goes down. You can be productive while not doing generators, and giving the killer the chance to actually play the game. If you've done all that and the killer still hasn't killed anyone then that's their fault not yours, just like if you don't tunnel anyone and still 4 man 5 gen them that's their fault not yours.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007100#Comment_1007100
Right, except that is not efficiently if you at all understand what is happening in a given game.
To claim it's efficient is rank 20 logic, at best. If you tunnel one person, 3 people get to do gens for free. It is a losing 'strategy' (a word I'd use loosely tbh) against survivors with half a brain.
The faster you eliminate survivors, the faster you snowball. When you eliminate one quickly, you cut the team efficiency down by 25%.
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@MyNamePete said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006987#Comment_1006987
to be fair there wasnt much of a conversation type post
i wanted to know what you meant by double standard so i looked
i saw your post and you explained everything and said everything to say so i was like “sweet”
all im saying is the post makes sense but something like un-needed? Just because something like this is obvious i dont think it should be explained is all.
You'd be surprised how not obvious this is. I see the argument "gen rushing doesn't exist" or "gen rushing isn't toxic" all the damn time. It's obvious to people who play both sides (and I mean actually play to understand, not play once just to say they do) but people who only play one or refuse to see arguments from the other side will make stupid arguments like that. Just like I see occasionally see tge argument that tunneling isn't toxic. They're one and the same, and whether you think it's toxic or not is on you but you can't think one is and the other isn't. That's the double standard I'm tired of, and the one I'm starting to see from DEVELOPERS which is the worst part. Seriously, I've seen better devs from EA for ######### sake. These guys are pathetic.
Well, the balance team is. I love the people responsible for maps and killer aesthetic, backstory, writing, stuff like that. The creative team of this game are talented, phenomenal people who I hope keep up their good work.
I honestly hope the entire balance team is fired and replaced because this ######### is ridiculous.
Edit: I also apologize for the rude first comment, I thought you were trying to argue that it was unnecessary because they're different. Agreeing obviously needs no evidence for backup, but disagreements do, hence why I was upset with a perceived disagreement with no evidence to support anything.
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@KrispiesChicken said:
Can everyone stop being a snowflake and just play the game. People will play the game how they want to and nothing we say will change that, unless Bhvr decides to change something to address it. Like honestly. All I see on these forums are people complaining about something.
Then leave the forums. If you're annoyed by it, stop immersing yourself in it. The forums are (supposed to be) for voicing your concerns and opinions with the came for developers and players to see so you can potentially change something. (this would be the case if developers didn't completely ignore one side of their playerbase)
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@SunderMun said:
Tunneling is not and never was efficiency, though.
Yes, it is. Especially when there's no DS, or when it's out of the way. Imagine how often killers would tunnel if there was no DS or borrowed or anything. It's the same thing with gen rushing. There's hardly anything left to stop it anymore so it's capable of happening any game, if the survivors choose to. Just like if there was no DS or borrowed or anything, tunneling could happen any game if the killer chose to.
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@honestlybaffled said:
If survivors doesn't "genrush" (or straight up just finish gens) what else are they supposed to do?
break totems and search chests? boop the snoot? tbag the killer to get on chases?
If killers don't "tunnel" (or straight up just kill survivors) what else are they supposed to do?
Ignore injured survivors and go for fresh survivor? Meme with the survivors? Let them get to loops so they can chase?
Genrushing is the same as tunneling. Killers choose to play inefficiently in order to allow the survivors to play, and survivors can do the same. You can start the game by searching a chest instead of hopping on a gen. Break totems as you find them and search them out to prevent Noed. Sabotage hooks in the area in case a friend goes down in the area. If you've broken all totems and searched all chests then you've given him enough time and at that point just finish gens and leave. If the killer starts tunneling, for the sake of the guy being tunneled, gen rush the killer. He's given up his right to not be gen rushed by tunneling. Just like if the survivors start gen rushing, the killer can start tunneling, since the survivors gave up their right to not be tunneled by gen rushing
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@Vetrathene said:
The devs have a double standard too. New survivors need to be coddled which is why ruin got nerfed, but new killers is fine and who care how it unbalances the game at higher ranks and more experienced players?
The game should always be balanced for high rank, period. Players will eventually get better, and your veteran playerbase are the ones who spend the most money on your game. Players will get better and as they do they will start to see more normalized gameplay. New players will experience the horror that is intended for the game. As they begin to lose that fear they will better understand the intricacies of the game, and get better. Literally the less scared they get the better at the game they get. And naturally, playing a horror game over and over again will reduce how scary it is. So as it becomes less fun because of horror, it becomes more fun because of balanced gameplay. Therefore creating the perfect environment for all tiers of gameplay
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Then why come here. If you plan on adding nothing to the conversation why comment at all.
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@Crujoh said:
I think you have to really play both roles almost equally in order to understand both sides. You can usually tell which players strictly play one role or the other by their game play and end game chat/msgs. I don't know if they have release stats but I suspect the high majority either play killer or survivor and therefore they only see things from one pov.
I encourage everyone to play both sides, if no other reason than to understand your enemy. When I started I exclusively played survivor, refusing to play the "dirty killers" as I actually believed. And I struggled as a survivor. Even during the times of blendette and actual infinites. During the Dark Ages of DBD I still struggled as a survivor, until I started playing killer. I understood better their mobility, their vision, their goals...and I applied it to survivor, and started doing amazing. The result was me reaching rank 2 survivor and rank 3 killer on a regular basis.
The awesome thing about it is you also get a feel for the struggles of both sides. Being tunneled sucks ass, especially when your teammates are no help. But so does being genrushed. Both give the same feeling of helplessness and frustration.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004794#Comment_1004794
So... the problem in your argument are the killers, not the gen rush... point made...
The issue is why they can't apply pressure. A killer should not be dependent on their mobility to be allowed to apply pressure. Mobility should be a power in and of itself, not a requirement for a viable killer. These killers, on paper, are designed fine. They sacrifice mobility for aggression in chase. The issue lies that without that mobility, the generators cannot be pressured and they are done too quickly. Therefore, the issue lies in the speed of generators, not the killers themselves. This is especially present when even killers with high mobility AND deadly aggression in chase (spirit and nurse) are STILL unable to pressure generators enough to stop them from being done. The issue is with generator times, not killers.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1003931#Comment_1003931
No tunneling doesnt equalize with fastening your objective. It just means youre going to take out one survivor who cant do his objective. Gen rushing is just doing their objectives, while it doesnt hinders the killer on doing his objective, cause naturally Killer is in a chase while gens are getting done. the chase is the prerequisite for downing, which is the prerequisite for hooking, which is the prerequisite for killing. So killers can do their obctives, so gen rush isnt real, while survivors cant do their objective, so tunneling is real. No discussion worth here.
No, the killer can't do their objective of the generators go too fast. The time of the generators being repaired sets the time limit for the killer to do their job. If the generators go too fast, there isn't enough time to do your job.
You've also got the 1v1 mentality bad. Understandable since you don't even know what words are.
There are 4 survivors and one killer. If a survivor is being tunneled, the other 3 can still do the objective. Therefore, following your "logic", or lack thereof, tunneling wouldn't exist either.
So which is it?
Recognize the double standard.