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@SpiritsHusk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454724#Comment_3454724
Would've been C but since the nice QOL and small buffs I think he deserves to be low B tier
actually yeah I forgot they decreased his cooldown and stuff. if you run the 6s cooldown reduce addon, he might even be mid b tier. as long as he can consistently expose then hes strong enough for me.
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@illNicola said:
Look for made for this + blood pact, and ask yourself if its balanced. Add hope to hit, and lets see if its balanced in your opinion.
Thats an issue with haste stacking, not MFT. you shouldnt be able to stack haste anyways, it limits how many unique haste related perks can be made and forces all of them to have crazy restrictions. The only exceptions to that rule are MFT and BDT, which have been noted as a very busted combo. if haste didnt stack, and just took the highest number and used that, would their be an issue? no.
This problem has always existed, MFT has just made it easier to abuse. But the problem itself isnt MFT. We can easily solve this by removing haste stacking. There should be no scenario where a survivor moves at a consistent 124% speed.
so yeah actually I do still think its balanced. In any of the clips people use to call MFT op hope is always carrying anyways.
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seems good to me. I think I'd bump wesker up a slot though, his basekit slowdown makes him better than p head in my eyes. I'd also probably slot ghostie into top of C, but only because so easy to reveal 😭
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this is actually an issue right now too, because the anniversary events coming up. I was looking forward to getting way too many wesker addons, but now if does get un killswitched soon i just cant.
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I have been saying this for so long! As a killer main let me tell you I'm so bored of getting hit with a lithe every chase😭
lets shake it up a little already!
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454658#Comment_3454658
My thoughts exactly. But if people are gonna complain about anything and everything, might as well give them a good story to read first. A LGBTQ+ Killer could, lore-wise, be very interesting. We have killers who became the way they are through abuse, and we have killers who do it because it's fun.
Imagine if, rather than the stereotypical, the harassment got too much and they snapped story, it was instead the story is about them going from taking revenge and the power away from those who hate them to becoming what they fear. Where we see what was a person trying to be themselves and live a happy, accepted life, only for them to realise, they don't want to be accepted by them, they want to be feared.
A killer that doesn't recognise that they're too far gone to be forgiven for the slaughter, but rather thinks that they haven't gone far enough. A story that goes from Us VS Them, to Them Vs Me. They don't want to bring peace or love anymore, they are selfish, obsessive and devoid of empathy. And then the Entity comes in and gives them what they want. Freedom from the hate of others, a new playground of fear and death, hunting survivors in the fog and the only remnant of what they did in the real world, has left scars and nightmares, becoming a new age bogeyman.
while from a writing standpoint it could be quite interesting, froma representation standpoint I dont think its a super good idea. I'd love to read a book about that concept, but portraying an lgbtq+ character as vengeful and murderous. its a good concept but for representation it wouldnt really work.
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@fulltonon said:
Honestly, LGBTQ+ killer could have some interesting lore, but it may also be extremely hard/dangerous to write up...
yeah lets leave the representation to the survivor side... much less... err... treacherous.
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@SpiritsHusk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454638#Comment_3454638
Honestly! They may even need to buff EMPs at this rate to give the survivors a chance of winning!
Like seriously, Its just so unfair to the survivors right now lol. You think maybe the biopods should just disintegrate after slipstreaming someone? oo oo and emps should stun larry for 58557 seconds if hes in overclock.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
110 killers aren’t the ones I feel are hurt the most by this. They have some way to hit you from a distance, so they can make some progress. Hag and Trickster will still be weaker because of it, but not too bad.
The killers I think will be hurt the most by this are the 115 M1 killers like Myers, Trapper, and Sadako. And THIS is where the problem with this perk lies. It hinders the already weak killers while having next to next impact on the best killers like Nurse or Blight. 3% against Nurse is nothing, but 3% against Sadako is game changing. If a perk makes weak killers weaker but doesn’t effect the strongest, then it isn’t healthy for the game.
I feel like thats more telling of killer balance than perk balance. If the perk has a balanced effect on the balanced killers, then its balanced. But since the weaker killers dont have any range or mobility or real chase potential, they actually do get their chasetime increase quite a bit. I think that these killer should just recieve some buffs, idk give the terrible m1 killers 5% or speed or smth
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3451855#Comment_3451855
Just because it worked like this for years does not mean it has to be set in stone. If anything, it shows how outdated the perk is.
And like I said, with the addition of the HUD icons, you can totally get consistent value out of it even without the ignoring effect. Not to mention that we are only talking about the sprint here, the heal would come either was. You just have to play a bit smarter then, not brainlessly use your exhaustion perks since you know you will still get you Adre sprint.
Let me ask you, what is your opinion on Adre? Is it fine or does it need a nerf / some toning down?
For me, it's a little bit to strong, esp. in swf. It's far from being "high risk, high reward" imo (that only applies to solo Q). With the right team, it's more of a "win harder" perk. How often does it really help a group that is struggling? I see it in my solo games, where we fight hard to get the last gens done and you really hope the one on dead hook being chased has it, but they usually don't. But where do you see it to great effect? 4 man groups rushing through the gens with resilience not bothering to heal bc they have Adre. And the one person you are chasing when the last gen pops just timed their other exhaustion perk right to get the double sprint boost.
So, how to nerf it? Removing the heal would kill it. Making it exclusively heal or sprint boost might work, but that also hurts solo more than swf than can coordinate well. But removing the exhaustion ignore would hurt SWF more than solo's, bc only the former can make make use of it consistently ("wait a sec for my SB to wear of, then pop the gen!"). And with the HUD changes, you have enough info available to not unintentionally use an exhaustion perk seconds before Adre pops.
Well yeah everything is stronger in SWF. Ex: are we really gonna nerf CoH again because swfs use it super well?
Adrenaline is a super well designed and balanced perk. Its absolutely risk-reward as well. For every adrenaline someone equips, they aren't equipping deliverance or prove or some other meta perk they could. Their taking the risk of bring 3 perks in hope that they survive til endgame for a massive reward. Adrenalines just one of those perks that feels really op from the killer end, I say this as a 1700 hour killer main. I used to hate adrenaline until i started using it as survivor. Half the time I die and the other half I make it and get insta healed. Very, very rarely do I get it to pop mid chase. That happens a ton from the killer perspective because everyones running it, so if you are chasing someone when the last gen pops theres a sizeable chance they've got adrenaline. but trust me it is not common. And even if it was that common, surviving til endgame with just 3 perks deserves that kind of reward.
Like they said, adrenaline used to not push through exhaustion and it was stupid. Exhaustion perks are the strongest and most fun survivor perk type. Everyone wants to use one and everyone does. Adrenaline is a reward for survival, so why should the survivor not get their reward because they brought an exhaustion perk? Imagine if you didnt get NWO because someone was on hook or you brought noed or smth. its just stupid, you spend all game earning it just for it to do nothing.
the SB into adrenaline thing rarely happens anyways. And plus if they got adrenaline, even without that SB that chase was lost. Besides, the point of adrenaline being able to pop mid chase to begin with is as a reward for not going down yet along with not dying.
if anything it should hold on hook for you, as you did lose the chase and still get rewarded. but I think its fine as is.
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as a 1700 hours killer player, I disagree. Theres this kind of silly effect adrenaline has on people. As a killer it feel super op bc you have to eat one mid chase almost every game because everyone uses it and the gens always get done. But as survivor the only value you get is getting to the gate faster 😭
I used to really hate adrenaline until I tried using it when I play survivor. Most of the time I either die or just dont get much value period. But its just so fun and strong I can stop! Seriously, just the insta heal feels so good. Its like a massive reward for not dying yet, like "hey you made it! in soloQ! here, have a free chase reset". Its a pretty balanced perk. It doesn nothing all game and requires you to survive to endgame, and even then value isnt guaranteed. Sure if you are injured you get value, but thats typically about it. Very rarely to I get the last gen to pop right as wesker's closing in on me.
the only nerfs for adrenaline I can think of would be that it doesnt res you and doesnt hold for you while carried/downed. The design of the perk is all about being a reward for playing well, so if its gonna get nerfed then it should be this. I love that it does those things, but I did lose the chase.
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@MikeStev said:
for short term solution, try uncheck "Mute Focus" on Audio Tab
oh my god thanks! I didn't even know that existed. It'll make youtube sound clunky but hey its better than roleplaying im waiting out my own corrupt
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452736#Comment_3452736
They did listen to feedback. The problem was they were too cautious with the changes they made.
I really cant blame them. If they accidentally made emps useless or not enough then the hux 3 gen would be crazy
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Regarding your point on Haste stacking, I think there's a very simple solution. Perform a consistency pass, like was done with methods of applying Exhaustion way back when™, and make it so you're only ever effected by 1 form of Haste at a time, whichever is greatest. This then removes the large issue of MFT stacking with other Haste perks to become genuinely overbearing while being okay by itself, and allows other perks like Dark Theory to be buffed to a useable level without worrying about causing some extreme combination. Also frees up potential design issues for future perks, as Haste stacking is no longer a concern.
It may not be a problem now, as the only 2 that can be consistently stacked is MFT and Dark Theory, but changing it now can free up the design team for a lot later on.
that sounds right. No matter how fun it is to use blood pact + power of two with BDT and a buddy, ik its not super fair.
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@mustdogen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454494#Comment_3454494
Jesus.
You are serious.
Someone do a similar math before in the ptb feed back.
If my memory is not wrong.
MFT gain 70% value of SB in a 24m racing.
In other words,this unexhausted perk, you only need to put down a pallet one time in chasing to re-gain the distance,it already stronger than SB.
And guess what?it is still actived, forever!
We don't even need to talk about the strongest part of it like how it would effect to looping, just talk about shift W in to pre-drop,MFT is already an op broken perk.
Let me try that math myself.
The pallet break timer is 2.7s, with a stun of 2 seconds.
2.7(4) = 10.8
4.7(4) = 18.8
compared to
2.7(4.12) = 11.124
4.7(4.12) = 19.364
less than 1m increase. At most this would gain about over half a second of time over just not having it equipped. How does that make it stronger than sprint burst? SB provides 4.2m and 4.8m of distance depending on killer speed. How is it not better to bring sprint burst?
SB gives 4.2m of distance over a 3 second period. Can be used multiple times a chase.
4.2/0.12= 30s of running just to gain the same amount of time a SB gives instantly. Not to mention that in those 30s, an SB user probably has like 25% of the timer back down now. so its what, 30s late SB when it comes to chase extension?
Also, in what world is shift W overpowered? its literally throwing. predropping and wasting every pallet when you can milk at least 20s of time from each one is the definition of throwing. Thanks MFT users, now your whole team is stuck with 0 resources.
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@Riski said:
I would like to propose some simplier maths. Sprint burst/lithe (best exhaustion perks of last patch) gave 50% extra speed for 3 second which translates to 6m over 3 seconds. Made for this provides 3% extra speed which is 0.12m per second. If you want made for this to match sprintburst/lithe in value you need to last 6/0.12 = 50 seconds while injured with it which is quite a long time especially against some stronger killers. What does this mean? 50 seconds is a long time even with the 3% haste so I'd say this perk is probably worse than Sprint burst/lithe but is reasonable enough that the perk isn't bad (espcially considering it still gets value up until these 50 seconds). I will say this perk does better against killers with weaker chase where those 50 seconds can be more reasonable and worse against stronger chase killers who can down you anyway, instadown killers who avoid you being injured and stealth killer who can down you without a chase. It's solid but still worse than it's best competition.
why didnt I think of that!? thats so much simpler, thank you so much for articulating how I feel about this perk so well lol. you mind if I add a paraphrased version to the post?
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its really cluttered with way too much unnecessary geometry just blocking vision. its also really big and main builind has 3 pallet loops and 3 god vaults. also 3 floors so survivors get plenty of time to know you are coming.
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@Hunkulese said:
You wrote a whole lot but don't seem to understand the biggest advantage you get. It's not just a distance thing. If you're a good survivor, the 3% haste is a massive boost in strong loops. It really hurts Huntress in high level play where you already had to run loops almost perfectly to get a hit.
I understand that but I couldn't really find a way to show it in action without just going to test it and recording and im too lazy to do that for one forum post. I play huntress a lot, especially rn bc weskers disabled and I se your point. but personally I'd rather loop a mft user than a SB user. I prefer going against chase extension through slowing my gains than just directly adding 12s to the chase and reaching another loop.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
You provided zero arguments on why it is not a problem for 110% killers.
because someone in hags web is TOTALLY gonna survive because they had mft guys, you can also outrun huntress hatchets!
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@Wearevenom1484 said:
If you have to try this hard to justify why its not a problem, its a problem.
Scratched mirror Myers is dead against this perk, a play style that was already on life support.
I jut have fun talking about my favorite game, anything divisive is easy to write about. Rip scratch mirror, but always moving at 105% was never gonna be strong anyways.
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@Levitika said:
The logic in this is faulty; you can prove that Made For This is extremely strong with math too.
Maximum chase start distance is 12m. Assuming a chase starts at that distance, we can establish the following.
A 4.6m/s (115%) killer would reach the survivor in 20 seconds.
A 4.4m/s (110%) killer would reach the survivor in 30 seconds.
With Made For This, these values increase to 25 seconds and 43 seconds.
Even five extra seconds in a chase can make a huge difference. And this isn't even factoring in potential perks you can pair with it, such as Dark Theory (+2%, ups it to 30s and 60 ######### seconds) and Hope (60s and literally impossible to gain distance until Bloodlust kicks in).
im not seeing how this proves im wrong. 5 extra seconds is good yeah, but what chase is gonna begin with someone injured? A MFT user has no reason to stay injured outside of chase. its not like resilience where theres gen progress as incentive, theres literally nothing. The best move is to start a chase healthy and get mft value once your injured. Those 5 extra seconds are gonna pale in comparison to the time you'd have gained from being healthy. And the idea that every killer will take that amount of time to catch up is false assumption to make. Wesker players like to hit m2 at every opportunity for slowdown, which moves at 11m/s. Nurse blink, blight rush, hatchets, harpoons, knives, and possessed chains are all powers that either decrease the time to catch up or have enough range that its not a necessity.
Those same 5 extra seconds are granted on an onhit burst anyways, but if thats what we're gonna say makes mft op then why isnt overcome the same way?
Besides, the second part isnt an issue with mft its an issue with speed stacking overall. mft boon dark theory is a broken combo that should definitely go. speed stacking was fine until mft came alone because it was always niche and really limited, but with this combo you and turn any killer into hag with just two perk slots.
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@squbax said:
Wait a second so what you are saying for huntress is she is ok because a fully charged hatchet can hit them, did you acount for the survivor to actually be sentient and use LoS blocker to just gain distance and dont care about hatchets, same as slinger he only has 18 m of shooting range and trickster, same as slinger by the time you get injured you should either make hell on earth in a loop for him or use the speedboost to navigate better while using LoS to not get caught MtF, are we assuming people just run in the open without baiting hits or using LoS blockers?
I mean I dont recall ever saying that. I said all huntress needs a small bit of los to down you, which is true. People run loops tight on LOS blocking geometry all the time. but that just makes one of her weaknesses worse, it doesnt stop her dead. that pallets going down eventually. Besides huntress is fine on nearly every loop except for those really small los blocking ones. And on those all it takes is one mistake and they get hit because the loops so small. On the longer loops you can always just charge up a hatchet and hit them because its long enough they cant just run behind it. Same goes for slinger and trickster (even if it takes longer). their gonna run out of those perfect loops eventually. And you can always just drop chase as a last resort if their that good.
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@mustdogen said:
Yeah 20% extra distance for everything in chasing forever are not overpower.
I totally believe you.
When do dev turn MOM in the original version?
I still waiting.
- disagrees with me
- provides no argument beyond "me right u wrong doi"
Classic. So how about instead of strawmanning, we have a mature conversation? This is a forum for discussion. You bring nothing to the table with your worthless comment, except for boosting the post so thanks.
"in chasing for everything ever"
this is just... wrong. Its only while injured, its not like it just gives you 3% all the time. Its like resilience, improved basekit for chase while injured. Except with resilience theres actual incentive to stay injured bc gen speed up, not with MFT. Theres no reason you should just be healing up. Meaning actually, you only get it for HALF the chase. So its probably closer to a 10% increase to chasetime.
Except its not. because you forgot the part where killers have these things called POWERS. You know like blight where he moves at 230%, and will absolutely still down you if it goes down to 227%? Yeah. All the high tier killers dont give two elodies about MFT.
I will now list every single killer and why they dont care.
Nurse moves at 16m/s through walls. She doesnt care if its suddenly 15.88m/s.
Blight moves at 9.2m/s with 5 tokens and speed addons. He doesnt care if he gains 0.12m/s less, because hes still gaining 5m/s.
Spirit holds a button and goes at 7m/s. see blight.
Plague doesnt really have to bother with injured people in general. She justs infects you, either gets you to max and downs you bc no on hit burst (MFT wont make up for no on hit burst) or infects and leaves you. Then you either go cleanse or are injured the whole game. In the former, she gets omega puke with great range and minimal speed loss. She can shred through you like butter. Or, on the contrary, you stay injured and get MFT value. Except since you are injured at the start, the chase will be a lot faster. Faster than made for this can make up for.
Wesker not only has two tokens that move him at 11m/s, but he has a hinder effect on max infection and basekit slowdown to get rid of it. So if you get fully infect no mft value. And if you dont you still have to go cleanse, losing all the time you gained with mft (it wasnt a lot of time to begin with)
Artist. I dont need to say anything, shes huntress on way too much crack. she can and will down you through walls, and a 3% speed bonus isnt gonna scuff her prediction or how goddam fast those bird go. You are not outrunning a swarm.
Oni might have issues, being an m1 killer and all. Except most good onis hit one survivor, then go hit another to get power really fast. In that scenario, the most common way I've seen onis build power, nobody hes chasing is injured. And then when he goes brrr its a blight situation. And also an instadown, good lucking getting mtf value.
Pyramid head also hits you through walls. He will have 0 issues, against a good pyramid head looping is trivial. It isnt about distance, its about prediction and if he wins it you are injured. unless you are w gaming to avoid it, meaning you are wasting pallets meaning you are helping the killer. so its either looping is trivial and the sped bonus is worthless or you waste pallets. either way no mft value.
huntress. All she needs to down you is LOS. Charged hatchets move at 40m/s, you really think you can outrun a hatchet just because its moving at 39.88m/s now?
hag. If you are in her web, your dead. its just a fact. she can teleport. distance is trivial to a hag in web. out of webs a different story, but that goes without mft as well and is an issue with her basekit rather than the perk.
pinhead literally forces you to stand still, how is 3% gonna change that? good pinheads just open the portal right on you and insta land the chain. not to mention chain hunts, constantly getting slowed will not be alleviated by mft.
Twins, victor moves at like SB speed. charlotte will just run sloppy like all twins do, play hit and run then snowball downs with victor. pretty simple, you aint outrunning the mach 3 baby.
deathslinger: see huntress. the only reason he might be minimally affected is being he needs to reload, so you get an extra like 0.3 seconds worth of distance which could get you a pallet. but if he reloads then a good slinger will just shoot you and you done for.
skull merchant: 3 gen mid merchants just expose you, or everyone just stays injured. Regular and 3 gen mid merchants get a speed boost from drones being disabled. Just one disabled drone means mft now gives a free 1% speed boost. how powerful!
Knight forces the hold w strat, so you are gonna be wasting pallets against him by default. He is an m1 killer, so you'll get decent value but the pallets wasted will pretty easily counteract it when he gets easy downs later because of it.
demodog has great map mobility and chase potential. In a situation where mft would have gotten you the vault or pallet, he will just shred. and then you go down. because he can just pull a wesker.
doctors special, hes an m1 killer with no way to really down you quickly. but he does hard deny pallets and windows, so a good doctor could possibly nullify any pallets or windows you could have reach with mft. applies less to pallets bc predrop.
nemesis, he does have tenta strike but he has to infect you first giving you an on hit burst. If you are infected then similar to demo dog pallets and windows gained can turn into downs for him. Otherwise hes just an m1 killer.
Dredge benefits from you being injured and has great anti loop+map mobility. if hes in nightfall then his teleport also becomes a great chase tool. He is affected somewhat by mft, but like knight he forces shift w so it kinda evens out. And besides he can always just leave you and built nightfall. he benefits either way.
hillbilly: the first killer in the list to actually care. A cracked billy will obviously curve the hell out of you and just ignore the idea of multiple health states, but your average billy cant use saw in chase and functions as just an m1 killer. mft actually annoys him a little, possibly enough to matter. but he is c-tier and needs buffs either way, so its probably just an issue with his kit. if his saw were more versatile in chase he'd be deadly. but sadly right now it aint.
bubba is the insta down king. he doesnt care if you move 3% because MFT will just never be active. Bubbas weakness is windows loops like T Ls, but most of the time if they see someone is going there they can just go chase someone else. its all or nothing, either you get insta downed or hes an m1 killer dealing with mft.
ghostface is another instadown king. Like he cares you've got made for this, he'll just expose you. unlike bubba, hes actually usable at window loops so he'll be insta downing you more consistently.
tricksters a ranged killer, see huntress. The difference is that he does care about range but not to the point mft matters.
legion cares about mft. probably the most actually. His whole power is based around injuring everyone and then chasing them down as an m1 killer. granted you are injured, but its legion.
pig has nothing in chase beyond ambush, some below average anti loop. probably cares about mft.
wraith cares so little its funny. In cloak he goes speed, and out of cloak he goes speeeeeeeeeeeed. Speed = no mft value.
clown directly denies any value with his bottles.
freddy does the same but much much worse, definitely affected
sadako has literally nothing in chase and will just cry
myers has nothing in chase except popping t3, which will deny all mft value. all or nothing.
trapper just catches you in traps and you go down instantly.
See how out of every killer in the game, only like 5 are actually affected? and their all the really bad killers that need buffs BECAUSE they have nothing in chase? Almost like the only way MFT can be good is if you are up against a killer whos literally powerless in chase...
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@Chewy102 said:
By your own math 115 Killers require 8 additional seconds to catch up against MFT on a straight line chase. That's 8 additional seconds to reach a pallet/window. 8 seconds is long enough to run cross multiple map tiles meaning you can likely SKIP the nearest pallet/window with MFT to prevent creating dead zones.
There's no point listing off Killers. ALL of them but Nurse and Blight will have a bad time dealing with an extra 8 seconds of catch up. Even Blight might have issue depending on the map. Nurse, it's Nurse. Nothing gonna stop a Nurse.
110% requires 18 additional seconds by your own math. How the hell is that OK in your eyes? In raw chase length 18 seconds is an eternity and even if you pick/choose what Killer it is that extra time still leaves PLENTY of extra time to reach cover.
Hag? Hag already has problems chasing anyone without already having traps placed. Giving Survivors more distance is just making things worse and forces Hag to camp or lock down a 3 gen that much harder.
Spirit? Odds are you spent your power landing that first hit. Meaning you can't use it for some time. How much is a variable but the point is that Spirit already has to blindly guess where Survivors run to as chasing at 110 is painful. She will have that much of a harder time guessing where Survivors ran to as each corner they can reach is another blind guess Spirit has to take unless she can physically see the Survivor.
Huntress? Huntress is effected the least Id say and it purely depends on what map it is and what type of cover Survivors can reach.
Deathslinger? He has to reload and then chase at 110 to catch up. Each extra meter he has to run is a nightmare if there's so much as a bush in the way.
Trickster? He's close to Huntress, but needing to land several hits makes any cover Survivors reach an issue. So he'd be worse than Huntress, but not by all that much in the long run. Depending on the map that is.
There's simply no downside to MFT. None. You own math proves that MFT will in fact give any and all Survivors a DAMNED good advantage each time they get wounded! And considering how often Survivors get wounded. All of those 8 or 18 seconds will be adding up again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again through out any given game.
MFT is a perk so good. There's zero reason to NOT run it!
yeah, in a straight line chase. if their just playing normally, as in looping and chaining tiles, then an SB or lithe is absolutely a better pick. That 8 seconds doesnt really matter to most players because most players get some distance then stop at the nearest pallet repeat. W gamers are already uncatchable for plenty of killers, MFT isnt gonna change that the best strat against straight line chasers is to just get a few pallets down/broken then leave.
the 18s for 110% killers is near meaningless. Like I said, the point of 110% killers being slower is because their powers dont typically care how much distance you have. Spirit goes nyoom, hag teleports, huntress snipes etc. None of these killers will ever be playing like a sadako because they are built for that to be their weakest strategy. About hag though, shes a special case as a setup killer. Her little area of the map makes anything a survivor does futile while shes powerless everywhere else. she probably needs some mini buffs, but that has nothing to do with MTF.
You absolutely missed the point of the math. Yeah, 8-18 seconds is a lot. But who cares? Any stong high tier killer sure doesn't. If those extra seconds meant anything to the majority of the roster, then logically shouldnt overcome be THE meta perk? Overcome just does that math but way better. Except its not, because that extra distance just guarantees you get out of a deadzone etc. So if MFT just does that but worse, why is there any reason to use MFT for that reason? You assumption completely ignores how actual survivors play, nobody runs in a straight line playing solely for distance. And those who do waste pallet after pallet, which just helps the killer. A 110 killer is built around distance not mattering to their kit, so their worse at gaining it. If a killer is built around gaining distance quickly, then how does 0.12m/s more matter to them? If blight can catch someone mid SB, how does this matter to him at all? In what way does a blight care you move 0.12m/s faster? He moves at 9.2, now he goes at 9.08. still gains over 5m/s a second on you during rush, still gonna down you CRAZY fast. Wesker goes at 11m/s, plague doesnt really care about on hit burst, the only high tier killer I can see being affected is oni. And thats only because hes half m1 trash and half absolutely insane. Any killer with can consistenly down people witht heir power, whether it be by speed or range, will not care about MFT. Any good blight gets most of their hits with rush anyways, same for really wesker and huntress etc etc because thats what their built around.
MFT is only effective vs killers with 0 mobility, 0 range and 0 chase potential. Meaning its only problematic against killers that needed buffs to begin with.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454416#Comment_3454416
But the problem I feel is with representation is. While it’s great to have it why not make original content with it and not retcon our characters.
representation doesn’t mean making past characters gay or a different color skin. Representation should be done to represent a characters culture or group. They make an original character that’s not so absurd and make it subtle
100% right. There are definitely pros and cons to writing characters sexuality after their debut. One good thing is that they won't have any stereotypes, because they werent written with sexuality in mind. but that same strength is also a weakness, that lbgtq struggles and experiences wont be well represented if at all... because the character wasnt written for it.
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I dont think reducing the timer is the right move, even if we cant speed it up. i think a better move would be that they dont print themselves at all, and you need to speed it up for the full 20s. Also reduce the duration of emps by like 15s, and have the small range you suggested.
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sick im new flesh 😭
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its actually kind of hilarious. how does adding a new killer survivor and perks make an entirely separate killer become old spirit with infinite duration!?!? and then they couldnt even killswitch im because THEY BROKE THE KILLSWITCH-
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ehehehehehe
@Justa335i said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454410#Comment_3454410
I just want to throw Scooby Snacks at a facecamping Bubba, knowing he wont do anything about it lol.
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@Justa335i said:
Its a thin line.
If they don't do enough, people will complain.
If they do to much, people will say they are ruining the game and "forcing it" on everyone.
I feel the devs have gone above and beyond to show they are allies and hate will not be tolerated. The LGBT movement had its own event and charms, which cant be said about other marginalized groups. I also do not think that sexuality plays a part in this game. It doesn't matter which characters identify as or who they are attracted to. The survivors are all working together to survive a killer, not go on a date.
Its a thin line, but we are miles away from it when we've got just one gay character in the game. I love the devs and what they've done but just one lgbtq character isnt enough. yeah we got an event and charms, but we only get one actual person to relate to in game.
Also by your logic, why would we need any representation for different cultures and ethnicities? Survivors are just trying to survive and escape, so having everyone be white and having like one black character would suffice. But I'd imagine you'd disagree there. Of course culture is far different from sexuality, but their representation is equally important. Zarina's struggle between loving and embracing her cultural heritage and leaving it behind so she could feel "normal" probably resonated with plenty of people.
Different cultures and ethnicities didnt get an event or charms because they got people, human people they could connect with. The lgbtq community got one dude. I appreciate him and love that theirs anything at all, but only a small subsect of the community can really feel represented in the game this way.
tl;dr yui is lesbian and you cannot change my mind
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I agree. While I'd prefer a slow and methodical approach to representation, this is just a slog. David was a good step, but we cant just add one gay and act like we've hit our quota. Where are our lesbians? transgenders? bisexuals? theres so much more than just gay and we need to act like it. And what better time than pride month to boost our inclusivity? The pride charms are nice though. theres charms for stuff I didnt even know exists, saying this as someone in the community.
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bhvr was on something when they fr went
"lets make 2 killers in a row that hinge entirely on zoning with 0 counterplay in chase, even though the game is built on conserving resources by staying in an area and countering the killers power with your own skill!"
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I wish, all I want in life is to 360 albert wesker on haddonfield in high heels as daphne.
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this kind of ruins MFT. I like the concept of rewarding altruism, but MFT isnt really the perk to apply it to. Its a self chase extender like lithe and SB, and also has no synergy with them. It kind of reminds me of the DH killing nerf, where they made it anti tunnel (a good base for a perk) but it became terrible bc of it (bad perk to apply it to).
I think that MFT is a fine perk, and that its only real issue is easy haste stacking. Most killers can just ignore that its even there, using their range/chase mobility to down people rather than m1. Unlike its counterparts (lithe and SB) that every killer has to deal with on some level. Even nurse herself gets demolished by a good SB, but is she gonna care you move 0.12m/s faster? that logic applies to most high tiers. wesker, plague, huntress, hag, oni, blight, nurse... all of them either move so fast that 3% is nothing or have so much range or pressure distance doesnt matter. Only m1 killers are really affected that much, but thats the case with everything in this game anyways and is more of a killer balance issue than a perk one.
side note: The part where unhooking someone gives you endurance is a bad idea. It would encourage the killer to tunnel off hook rather than deal with you. After all, 2 injured survivors have BT right now, so whats the incentive to wait out the unhookers rather than the unhookees? borrowed time used work like that, gave endurance to everyone. did not go well 😭
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I agree with everything you said except about made for this. No, it doesnt have synergy with exhaustion perks. None of the good ones anyway. If you want value from MFT while using lithe, you need to not fast vault for the entire first half of the chase. Which, if you dont just want to get injured super early, will require wasting plenty of pallets since vaults are a no go. When it comes SB you just... cant. they dont work together at all. MFT does nothing if SB is equipped. Balanced landing is so situational I dont think MFT having minimal synergy with it is a problem. Like, their running BL+MFT instead of SB+ [meta perk]. And overcome just directly denies MFT value, unless you choose to stay injured outside of chase. Which would probably cause you to lose chase faster with MFT than if you had just healed.
MFT and hope is fine imo. Using hope instead of some other perk means you need to survive with 3 perks until endgame for value. Except unlike adrenaline you will only get value if you are in chase. And MFT is a perk that could just be replaced by SB, something imo that is much stronger. You get a really broken buff in endgame for surviving with 3 perks, and bringing a weaker perk than you had to. I made a like 7 paragraph post about why I think mft is fine, basically just parroting here.
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@JackOfTrades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379100/bring-back-wesky-boi
To cheer you up for when he (may eventually) come back:
I miss him so much 😭
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really? No seriously, really?
You did not just say that MFT is as good as old dh. how many logical hoops did you need to jump through for that one? Dead hard could increase chasetime by 50%, because it could increaser the hits needed to down the same amount. What does MFT do? Give a 3% speed bonus for just half the chase, so an effect 10% duation boost. If I have a 40s chase while using MFT, it theoretically gets bumped to like 44 or 46. Thats barely a difference. People need to stop malding about this perk already, its not an issue. The only possible issue is haste stacking.
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@OfficerHonks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454286#Comment_3454286
Still works with DH.
wowie what a strong perk to have synergy with, not at all nearly the worst one
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BRING BACK VHS THAT GAME WAS ACTUALLY FUN
...when the queues werent insane.
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obviously because they saw that its usage was low in *excel spreadsheet* and so they buffed it in *excel spreadsheet*
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No i5s completely fine. I do think that if youa re using MFT, it should cap your speed at 105% (EXCLUDING HOPE). Being able to stack a mft, bdt, AND bloodpact etc just isnt fair. Most haste perks are either bad or niche, so its normally fine that they stack but since MFT is a consistently valuable tool theres a bit of an issue with it.
So basically, unless the speed boost comes from hope, your speed bonus cant go above 5% extra.
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@BarnesFlam said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JLPVH8CPN9F5/image.png
Such a shame almost everything got leaked a few days before, it has the effect of putting a spotlight on the cons of this broadcast:
- No update on the Finishing Mori/Anti-Slugging update? Was it so badly received at that time, I thought it was pretty necessary. 🤔
- No news on the once-announced perhaps-forgotten Twins rework? 🤨
- No acknowledgment of the rampant FOMO situation? The concept of exclusive and/or time-limited cosmetics need to go. This is backwards against what the age of Internet was created for, and no, it doesn't bring more revenue and brings more new players. It has the opposite effect. 😡
Sure, everything else was pretty poggers, but I'm not spending a cent on this game until the last point is solved.
heeelllll no, basekit unbreakable needs to die slowly in a pit thousands of miles below the sea. absolutely not necessary.
in the qna they said the twins rework is coming in like a year though
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its the anniversary and the killer is mid with all bad/niche/boring perks, and the survivor has only one good perk.
so out of the 8 bits of content we get (6 perks, 1 surv and killer) only like 30% of its any good.
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@Spectralfx said:
"The risks"
Wow I cried laugh at that. Good freaking joke.
Honestly tho ... remember when they nerfed noed because killers waiting for end game wasn't really a risk...
Yeah, that's EXACTLY how this sounds like.
bruh cant believe you are actually arguing staying injured isnt risky.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452754#Comment_3452754
That's not a risk. If that were the case old iron will and dead hard would have had a cost associated with them. They did not. Medkits are still very powerful and all you need to do is 99 your heal.
"being injured isnt a risk" bruh. Yeah med kits can 99 a heal... once. Otherwise you need a teammate to do it. Besides thats boring, I like to use inner healing with it for a chase build. maybe toss in windows or lithe or smth.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
...... Risk? What's the risk?
...being injured, I choose to stay injured for resilience value on gens.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452525#Comment_3452525
I'm not suggesting the perk deny the killer value. I am arguing the perk rewards the killer with too much value. This is a problem with several perks and addons for killers in this game too. Survivors know that going for the door after the hatch is closed is almost asking to be found and eliminated. It takes perfect hiding and timing even without this perk to get the door open. No Way Out makes this play too difficult by forcing the last survivor every match to go straight for the nearest door and if the killer is using NWO then they now have to deal with the killer knowing exactly where they are and somehow evade them. It doesn't take much for the killer to check every wall and corner near exit gates and survivors leave scratch marks when they run. Sprinting away from the door after activating this perk will likely just give away your position anyway.
The point is, this perk gives too much power to the killer based on mere circumstance. It doesn't matter if the last survivor tried to wait out the killer's patrol pattern to the doors. If you fail to activate the perk right after the hatch is closed then you will die. This is unfair advantage in my opinion.
Its a last survivor closed hatch scenario. Its unlikely you were escaping anyway. If the killer has mobility your dead, if they've got good gate spawns your dead, if they've got nwo your dead-er.
The only time nwo actually stops a survivor from escaping in that scenario is when their up against a low mobility killer without range or good gate spawns. And if their playing a low tier killer like that, got 3 kills without tunneling, and then got bad gate spawns they deserve to get nwo value. closed hatch nwo just speeds up what was already gonna happen most likely. Besides, its a closed hatch scenario. You lost, your team is dead and you didnt find hatch in time, why in that scenario, where the survivors have lost, should a perk get nerfed?
it just shouldnt. its one of the best designed perks in the game, doing nothing all match then giving massive value if you dont tunnel. And better yet, it near guarantees the final kill if you find hatch.
How to counter: Find hatch first. Need I remind that hatch is an instant escape for the survivor who finds it? The killer doesnt instantly kill you when it closes, you still have a chance.
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So the perk is fulfilling its purpose. You get tokens by not tunneling, if you are the last survivor vs nwo then they didnt tunnel and got 3 kills. Why should they be denied value because of that? Its especially powerful in closed hatch situations yeah, but it only lasts for half the timer. Just proc nwo asap then play normal when its gone.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452002#Comment_3452002
I would use it with a longer stun. Because DS back then at least discouraged people to tunnel. At least for a bit. It was a joke for the stronger Killers, but nowadays it is a joke for basically everyone.
@Topic:
The thing why DS is needed is because it is Anti-Tunnel (even tho every Anti-Tunnel in the game is pretty bad) without Endurance. Currently the biggest problem with Anti-Tunnel is that everything resolves around endurance. A basic attack right after Unhooking removes:
- Basekit Endurance
- Potential BT
- Potential OTR
- Potential DH
If DS would actually be useful, it would create another layer which cannot be removed by just pressing M1 after an Unhook. And when it was still around, Killers were more hesistant with tunneling. Nowadays it is whatever, the Survivor will most likely not have DS and if they do, it is just 1,7 seconds of distance, which is around 7 meters. Barely anything.
I agree. While in my experience I find that non-chase killers are actually affected by DS, I know for the most popular and strongest killers its practically useless. You are totally right about the endurance thing, a smart tunneler will just slap someone off hook if they dont hear any sounds for OTR denial. It would be a really mid perk if it didnt also give you a massive safety net for 80s with aurablock and iron will.
DS for sure needs a stun buff. I don't really know how I feel about the whole 5 seconds, but with the current meta it seems warranted. At least when DS was meta there wasn't a way to know if a survivor had it, so there was risk to tunneling anyone at all. Right now it provides 11.3s/17s of distance ( (1.7 x 4)/0.6 or 0.4), which is pretty good in a vacuum. But factor in weskers and blights and nurses and huntresses and all of the ranged and fast chase killers and its practically meaningless.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3451956#Comment_3451956
Yeah, we didn't get any new slowdown perk since Sadako and her perk is useless now (CoB).
But they don't have issue with creating new genrush perks...
Yeah, sometimes it feels that way. Theres a fine line between shaking up the meta and completely breaking it. At least scavenger got nerfed lol, hyperfocus is still out here tripling BNP value