kurgan8282
kurgan8282
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@FrankSRfromIT said:
I know it has been said so many times, but what is up with all the toxic survivors. I have been playing this game for about a month as killer, and at first I loved it, it was fun, some games I would not even get kills but still have a good time. As my skill improved I moved up to as high as rank 14. I am not very good, and play just for fun, but now at 15 and 16 (I keep going backwards once I hit 15) it is losing it's fun.
Now not all survivors are toxic, when I first started some survivors would message me (I am on console so they have to reach out) with tips and tricks to get better. Now thanks to the messed up matchmaking, and probably the lack of killers, I am going against purples all night long. This weekend they were an average of 6 ranks higher, but as much as 10.I got annihilated almost every game, lucky if I got a knock down, yet alone a kill, lot's of t-bagging when trying to chase them, and at exit, and then they would go out of their way to send the famous "LOL GG" messages to me. For all you toxic survivors, you are not going to have a game to play when you drive all the killers away. Or maybe you will, because mm will line you up with baby killers to torment. How fun can that be?
The t-bagging isn't the problem (even though it is irritating, I know you are better than me) but why go out of your way, to send a message to harass a killer you are 10 ranks higher than? That is what I don't get.
problem is they aren't even that "better".
it is the match making and all the unbalancing decisions that made survs go on so smoothly during a game.
That ofc did lead to some entitled babies to believe they're good.
Imo devs clearly choose to make the game easy for casual players in hope to increase clients,it might be a winning decision in short term but lack of killers will ultimately kill the game
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1061353#Comment_1061353
i did a post about that almost one second ago, its just unfun, i am a survivor player now and thats it
agreed, and if a game is unfun, there is just no sense to play it.
I personally have stopped already purchasing anything from the store.
I'm keeping my hope up but right now dbd is not something i would invest any money on
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@Peanits said:
That's a tricky situation. Say you increase movement speed while outside of a chase.
- That number would have to be fairly high. Something like 5% is not going to make a difference. 5% would be the difference between covering 44m in 10 seconds and 46m in 10 seconds.
- Moonwalking would be exploited to keep this movement speed during a chase. In a chase, whatever bonus you're giving people is massively amplified. Adding an extra 0.6m/s when moving around the map is nice, but not a huge game changer. Adding an extra 0.6m/s when you're chasing someone doubles the rate at which you catch up (if not more, depending on the killer).
I would be very hesitant with that. It would likely be abused.
something has to he done anyway and real quick imo, game is a total mess lately.
I personally wasnt good enough to stay in red ranks as killer but now, even after derank, I keep on being matched with swf red ranks squads.
I ended up totally stopping playing killer, and getting bored easily but endless queues as survivor.
How this is supposed to be fun for everyone?
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@Mesutersahin1992 said:
plz everyone in this community has to understand that all the freddy buffs are to OP, sincerelly ive veen playing this day (5days) i have been playing against freddy a couple of time, and none of the games ive played against him, not 1 single person had the chance to escape the trial. Concider this message serious im not joking im playing ranked lvl 13
trust me, all that is needed to survive lately is having two hands :)
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@Nameless said:
Is it just me or is it extremely annoying to play with people that kill themselves on hook. Especially if they’re extremely entitled too.
yesterday I had two mates disconnecting after they were put down first time, I think there should be a ban at least for 1 week for such people
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I never do, ofc I get mad but disconnecting is wrong and disrespectful imo, you put all team in a mess.
Of course if they showed up to not care or doing it by purpose I can understand this. But tuere are xertain situations why they can't simply reach you in time, when we play an online game we should consider other players fun as well, that's just my opinion.
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@Lunah said:
I'm a survivor main and i think that the new ruin is pretty ass. I'm a red ranked survivor and the gens go bye bye in literally less than 2-3 minutes. It's unfun for both survivor and killer because the games go by so fast so we can't really do anything lol. I get why the devs nerfed it because it had a positive and negative impact on matches and it made it easier for newer players but like if we learned to combat ruin i'm pretty sure they could too. Since the ruin nerf survivor queues have been longer than before the ruin nerf and its probably because killers don't want to load into a match and then get gen rushed 2 seconds later. Please bring old Hex: Ruin: back.
if not back, because as it seems it was too hard for someone to deal with, it needs a rethink of the perk or the dynamics tied to fen rushing problem. Seems like new kids can't bother to deal with an hex that in most cases needed 2 minutes to be found and cleansed :)
Games last too little now.
I have actually stopped to see the new ruin after couple days, means that the perk is totally a wrong choice.
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@snowflake102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045631#Comment_1045631
For one I said no negative comments on this fourm:) and second I'm not putting the blame one anyone :) all I'm saying is you guys that complain about every change or nerf get soo mad at the devs like they don't know how to fix there game or something.
Just play the game if you don't like it play a different game. Like me I'm playing dead space 3.
So I think you can handle a change once in a while :.)
It's there game and they can do whatever they want.
Again I'm not putting the blame on you guys That complain. Cause it is fine to complain but when it gets out of hand that's not fine:(
i do understand you want to tone down insults and I do agree on that, tue problem is that,as said above by someone else, complains are not done just to flame discussions.
There really is a terrible unbalance since the last patch.
I know that even if i play since 2017, i'm not the best in both roles.
But the fact the I ranked up as a survivor till rank 2 (almost 1 now) since the patch it is a clear sign of the mess that has been done :)
Consider that I never went thru rank 4 (3 sometimes,by miracle) before
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@Lithuanian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045926#Comment_1045926
I guess they addressed it by changing ''gatekeeper'' :/
yeah, lol...definitely the most important aspect people used ruin for XD
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"dirtiest" I've tried so far was with trapper, I am terrible with him but needed to complete challenges so I couldn't play nice :)
I have used old ruin and thanatophobia to slow down, add on that made traps less visible and one that allowed me to carry more.
Then NOED combined with blood warden.
Maybe I was just lucky but worked wonders
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@Peanits said:
I'd definitely put Ghost Face up there. He's one of the guys that willingly went to the Entity's realm.
Although I suppose Michael Myers has to be the right answer, since he's literally evil in the shape of a person.
agreed, between all, he is the only one whpo deliberately decided to be a serial killer without having external circumstances driving him to madness.
Even Michael didn't choose it, he is just pure evil, an unlucky soul in a way.
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@Peanits said:
Perks are the real meat of the game, in my eyes. It's what keeps things fresh after all these years. Of course, if you're just after the best of the best, you could completely overlook them. Personally, I love some of the more recent perks. Head On, Inner Strength, and Any Means Necessary have all become favourites of mine. Even if they aren't the most practical, they switch up the game and make it a lot more interesting.
That's not to say that new killers and maps aren't nice, but sometimes a new killer isn't your cup of tea, and a perk works on any of them (even if the combo with some better than others).
I agree on that, I think since Jeff at least one perk each surv or killer was quite useful.
Personally Oni's perks dont match with my game style but I can clearly see the usefulness of them, for example
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@Lithuanian said:
I understand Ruin change was made to make newer players have a less hard time to fix generators but goddamn low rank killers don't use ruin at all because they don't even have hag
I like old Ruin as a survivor main because before We needed to look for ruin or we take this long time fixing which frustrated me even back then but now... Like I only hold M1 Every. Single. Game...
Before I atleast would try to look for the ruin and it was more fun trying to focus and hit on those great skillchecks to not get ruin and now I just need to hold M1 and put just a little focus and hit it and then go back on my phone to view reddit
I'm saying this as a long time player:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/149/NUHMTAPBWJ10.png
pls bring back old ruin, it's not fun anymore to play survivor :/ just too easy now ...
i do agree with you, Ruin itself might have need a change, but they didn't address the real problem of why ruin was used so much.
When I used it as a killer, it was the only way to male gake last more that a bunch of mins and have some fun out of it, winning or losing doesn't really matter but if a game ends in 5 mins fun becomes unexistent and that's where the real problems comes in.
As a surv is even worse, always been better in hiding so i tend now to hop from gen to gen and now in some maps happens that i dont even meet the killer....it's quite depressing game experience.
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a bit yes, honestly my level of fun decreased drastically after the nerf, it was a nice "second task" to have to find the totem and cleanse it before moving to gens freely.
Now all gets completed way too fast.
Matchmaking doesn't help also.
It's not so fun to gen rush a killer who is 7/8 ranks before me and escape within 5-6 mins.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1043030#Comment_1043030
Here, I went ahead and grabbed this for ya':
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/403/L538Z35NNL1C.png
There's a section in the patch notes specifically for killer related bug fixes.
has the delay in the nightmare's ability to place snares fixed? I read nothing about it.
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@DoomsdayDame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1043781#Comment_1043781
This is an unfortunate reality.. I'll just wait for Last Year to come to PS4 with the rest of you 😭
yeah not to mention RE RESISTANCE, if it's anything as good as it seems, it will be a tombstone for dbd.
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@DoomsdayDame said:
This is copy and pasted from my answer to the last question on the survey we were asked to take on 1/28/20. Please know that I am neither a killer main nor survivor main but I play noth equally. I'm not here to bully, harass or perpetuate toxicity in either direction so please keep your comments to this discussion civil.
"Guys... look. We all stay because we love what the game COULD BE and ONCE WAS. But.. it's getting harder to want to play a game that allows blatant toxicity and pushes for overpreformance on one side of the game; I do not need to tell you that the blatant favoritism on your behalf for survivor side is absolutely apparent throughout the entire community. You have alowed SWF to take over the game, genrush to the point of no return and work together to, not only intermingle perks to create an overpreforming and, frankly, over powered combination, but bully in that sense as well. I, like the rest of the community, am not asking for a guaranteed 4k- that is something I have to work for and enjoy doing so... but the unbalance and constant killer nerfs to benefit the SURVIVOR side is ruining my experience and everyone else's. I beg you to reconsider your current plans to dismantle the ability to pair certain genslowing perks on killer side and urge you to take a second look at how survivors work in general. If you wont nerf genspeed, add a second objective for survivors; make the game a little more thrilling on both ends. Disallow survivors to run meta before you nerf killers abilities to slow gens by means of perk limitation (as heard in your most recent Q&A), put a 5 rank gap on how many ranks apart you can be to queue with friends in SWF, implement DC bans and update your reporting system for PS4 (or other consols if needed), put a crack down on general toxicity and put clear definitions on what is bannable in game, and what is not. 80% of my issues stem from total unbalance 20% from general lack of care on the devs behalf of toxic behavior, broken game mechanics that are being aloud to be used in game, and totallly biased decisions being made in the survivors favor. I play equally both and survivor mains are just, by far, more intolerable than those who play both killer and survivor. Please Behavior.. we love this game, and we still believe in it despite what's going on, but should this continue I'm out, and so are most of your killers according to what we see on forums, social media, etc.."
it became already effective, it's enough to see queue times constantly increasing.
I feel like they are thinking to expand chances in lobby with the new matchmaking.
I honestly would feel real bad to see dbd die , but the path they took leaves no room for a bright future.
lots of asymmetrical horror games are coming and, in the state dbd is, it will take very little to move the player base somewhere else.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039610#Comment_1039610
We've nerfed plenty of survivor perks as well, if time isn't a factor. Let's not forget that Sprint Burst used to have a 20 second cooldown and recharge mid-chase. Several nerfs later, you could still stack it with Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Dead Hard. Nowadays Exhaustion exists, and it doesn't cooldown while running at all.
Double pallets are gone, DS doesn't activate the first time you pick someone up, MoM has been massively toned down, instaheals are no more, instablinds are dead and gone, vacuums have lost their suck- the list goes on. There's changes to both sides, we're not picking favourites. Sometimes there's going to be changes that are great for you, sometimes the pendulum swings back the other way.
you can honestly say that the last patch improved the game and made it more fun?
matches last few minutes it is a gen making simulator in red ranks.
I'm not a killer main complaining, I play both sides and since this patch the game lost so much of his appeal.
Imo you will need a massive rethink now that the ruin nerf exposed how unbalanced was the game without it. I've heard talks about fixing toolboxes...the issue is not in the items. Even games without toolboxes last few minutes now,not even the time to get into it and feel some sort of emotion. Not to.mention the massive increase of moris and slugging and tunneling...how could it be otherwise? killers are now pushed to eliminate a player early in the game or there is no way to stop gen rushing.
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@joker7997 said:
Guys, they aren't fixing rank, they're bsing that they're changing it and at the same time going to hide it from each other so that everyone stops complaining and they can look like they did something to avoid the backlash that came out when they had planned on removing post game rank last update. They're removing information from us so we have one less thing to complain about.
I see it exactly like that too
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yep...that was a bit too much to bite :)
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040334#Comment_1040334
The bit where you don't see your ranks, not any time soon. That'll be once we are sure this system is working well and officially make the switch away from the old ranking system.
so there will be no.matchmaking system fix before that?
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honestly, I can't say I believed too much in what they said about this legendary new system...
lots of words and then "we'll remove ability to see ranks of other players"
I.mean, it's pretty obvious that if it was meant to work, there would be no reason to hide other players ranks.
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mmmhhhh it definitely sounds like a band aid...i dont understand why not simply fixing the matchmaking system? it did good for years, how come it has suddenly become unfair?
Also the fact that other players rank will be hidden....definitely feels like a try to not make people understand the system is not working anymore.
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It's actually not something I have done, it's something I keep on doing and seem to never learn :)
Basically I rush myself for no reason and keep on landing the hit too early, I eegularly give at least 3 wrong hits each game, which of course result in a waste of time that becomes decisive for me losing some matches :)
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what a news...i'm shocked!:(
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@Bigbootiejudy666 said:
So I've been having a little issue with myself. I've been really torn if I should buy the new rift pas or I shouldn't buy it. Because I think what the devs are doing right now to the game is not good and if I give them money they will most likely continue to ruin the game. But maybe the devs have a change of heart and start caring about again, They could use that money that I spent on the rift to fix their game.
Please give some advice on what to do, I don't want to go on an impulse so I just want some advice before I make my final decision.
i see it in a very commercial way actually, I buy products which I like, so far I bought all dlc and some auric cells and other stuff from DBD since end of 2016, now, after the last patches, I honestly I can't say I like this product.
If back in the days dbd was in the state it is now, I would have not become so passionate about this game. Hence from now on I personally will not buy anything anymore untill the game gets fixed.
It is not a protest,actually. It is just a commercial reason, this product, right now, imo, doesnt deserve any investment.
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lately it's the 10+ mins to wait for a game as surv and then game itself lasting just a bunch of minutes due to how easy the game became.
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@Swiftblade131 said:
Maybe you just need a break from killer?
Try out survivor, I hear Doctor is very fun to play against now.
Or try out some CIV, that's a pretty fun game.
the problem is that we already have a lack of killers, if it goes on like this it will become a huge problem.
I suspect rank system is not so broken, simply there arent enough killers and that's why we often see yellow or even brown ranked killers against red ranks survs
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would be awesome, but right now,honestly there are most urgent things to do...like making the game playabke again.
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@Snow_Lep said:
I'm confused here. General idea is that keys are toxic, right?
I bring a Skeleton Key, Weaved Ring and Milky Glass into a match. Before the timer loads, my 3 other teammates all switch to other characters toting toolboxes.
I get found, tunneled, and proceed to be facecamped within the first 2 minutes.
Small addition, only reason he caught me was due to Dead Hard being a wonderful perk and giving the full indication it worked, even though we all know it works about .01% of the time.
The gens were done and they were all teabagging at the exit gate by time I died (yes I did struggle to give them extra time).
What part of the key was toxic? I got bent over by a salty killer who in the endgame chat gave the response, "I make sure anyone who uses a key gets the [BAD WORD] they deserve"
Like woah bro, chillax. I was the LEAST toxic of the group. I'm guessing the other 3 were in a SWF and just completely stomped you as a killer.
But just because I bring a key because I thought, 'Hey, why not? Last game of the night so gonna try something different', I get the literal worst game in existance and a killer who feels they are some self righteous priest of the forums and entity who needs to punish my sins.
Like dude, those toolboxes did more damage that match than that key could have EVER dreamed of. Honestly, don't even worry about the key until all gens are done (or someone has died and hatch has spawned in), and focus the gens being stopped.
Probably someone who was upset that ruin got nerfed and just used the key as an outlet excuse for trying to punish the toxic genrush... But punishing the toxic genrush would have been slugging those 3 over and over in the match, or facecamping them.
I'm not mad I got facecamped, it is a rather common occurance for me to make killers mad at me and get facecamped, but the logic behind it was just horrible.
Are keys really what is toxic here, or is it the gen rushing that only gets amplified when you decide to facecamp that just fuels the fire?
more than toxic, I'd say it's an easy way out for winning games when you don't deserve a win.
Personally I never run it, it feels a bit like cheating to me.
Only case I use it is if I find it in a box in game
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I couldn't honestly recommend it, too unbalanced and quick with no susoance. I recommended it before and would happily restart to if devs take the situation in hand and actually do something to make the game good again.
In this state, it is condemned to die,imo.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026910#Comment_1026910
My confusion is about 90% of my games as a red rank survivor, solo queue, with all other red rank survivors who may or may not be SWF I guess are against rank 10-15 killers. Who exactly is getting matched against the red rank killers?
good question actually, seems like they disappeared after the reset...I met just one since then...
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026287#Comment_1026287
We will be going over that, yes.
I really hope so because this situation is becoming unbearable, as a killer it has become close to a nightmare, as a survivor the fun level has gone deep down.
I truly hooe you guys will find a way to make the miracle because the game is almost unplayable as it is now.
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yes I wrote it too on another section.
He has a couple steps delay and it's impossible to place.snares in the right place during a chase
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@RipleHHH89 said:
It stayed up but it was like it was an empty perk. It's does nothing. If survivors are good they won't be off the gen for long so ruin is now officially one of the worst perks in the game. But that's just my OPINION, no need for anyone to get tilted over my opinion. Wait for it, and I save someone time "git gud" I before someone else says it to me lol no fix gen speed or revert ruin back.,
every opinion should be listened actually. I gave credit to devs and did wait till i could play this ruin for some days, althought I already imagined it would be useless.
Now there are proofs that was simply a wrong choice. Surely they did it thinking it was a good choice,everyone can make a mistake. But imo that's what it was ultimately: a mistake.
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@SteelDragon said:
we all know that no hex perk will last to late game, not sure why BHVR listed that as a PRO of this "new and better ruin". devs are so survivor biased it is not even funny. so tell me, how has new ruin treated you? I used it 1 game and it did next to nothing
simply not using it, it does very little when is active and as a late game hex it never stands that long.
Basically a wasted slot,unexistent perk.
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Agreed that the new ruin is basically a joke.
It is so weak that I can't imagine devs didn't noticed that,unless they made it try only to casual or very new players.
When 2 people are on a gen and killer arrives, it's enough that one of them hides for a sec then goes back to the gen and it's completed before any killer can do smt about it
Only thing I really disagree is that you actually mentioned two of the easiest maps for killers.
in autohaven or mcmillian is actually where killers still stand a chance.
Try to play this new ruin with a trapper on red forest or haddonfield...you'll have gens done before you even spawn in the game :)
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I'd love to learn the nurse actually, but first there will need a fix of the matchmaking system, cant learn much if,being currently rank 9 I keep on being paired with rank 1-3
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@Guiltron said:
Now that's something I hear every day about the game.
yeah that was an extremization imo, but it can't be denied that it became much easier and.less challenging.
I dont know about others, but I rather lose some games but feel challenfed than have easy wins 90% of the times
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@Inokara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022496#Comment_1022496
Thank you haha. I'm just trying to bring some positive vibes. I'm getting really tired of the toxicity and hate. Like I'm not expecting world peace, after all it's an online game. But I would at least like to try my best not to contribute to the bad. I want people to leave a game with me going wow that was a good round of DBD I dont want them leaving thinking "Man screw that guy, reported, stupid survivor main"
as long as I try to avoid tunneling if it doesn't become necessary, you really have the right attitude towards the game! i have been tunneled as a surv as well and after few secknds of rage I moved on :) we all should be more relaxed!:)
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Honestly I dont think pig needs a buff i play her sometimes and all you need is a little twist of luck in early game to put down a surv.
From there,she has a good power to slow down survs.
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Being from the 80's myself I can't help but loving the demogorgon music.
Also legion music is pretty cool imo!
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second day after the patch and today I'm finding lots of camping and tunneling...bad bad atmosphere here, I really think devs should do something quick for the good of the game!
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@Katzengott said:
Happend as Tru3 predicted it: Shortly after the Ruin changes there will be Clickbait-Videos like this. (Tho i'm suprised it isn't called "Better then the old Ruin!"). 1 week later people will realize that Ruin is still a Hex Perk and the combo is useless after Ruin is cleansed early (as it was never intended to be a "Late Game Perk"). Then they will try Corrupt. Till they recognize smart Survivors will just hide for 2 Minutes or till the Killer starts chasing another one. And then... what? You can call it: Slugging, camping and tunneling.
yes I agree, honestly yesterday not mich changed in the gameplay but it was just the first day.
I didnt run it as killer but as a survivor I found it really easy to handle and I didn't even need to bother to find the totem to cleanse it, it is like a non-existing perk.
They really ruined ruin
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@BabyBubbaMain said:
Yeah it’s decent until Nancy with Inner strength spawns on it across the map, cleansing it in the first 30 seconds and then you have 2-3 wasted perk slots that were there to make ruin “decent”.
When I see people using new ruin it makes me laugh because in my opinion it’s a wasted perk slot, even on high mobility killers. It still gets cleansed every single game in the first 2 minutes in red ranks.
Just use any other perk that doesn’t get taken away by survivors in the first 2 minutes
i agree, it would be as strong as a perk like thanatophobia and even weaker than dying light, the fact that it's an hex makes everything even more laughable.
Probably one of the most useless perks ever thought.
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@BrendanLeeT said:
For the first time I've had to wait 7 minutes for a survivor game today, never before have I had to wait that long meanwhile I got an 11 second queue for killer.
7 minutes is really nothing these days, last days i had a record of 29 minutes, and never less than 12...today it seems a bit better
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@mjay252 said:
I’m on Xbox so maybe it’s different on other system, but I’m actually finding matches much, much quicker today. I’m rank 2, teammate is 4 and we’re getting only red killers. So far it’s been the same level of fun so I’m not understanding all the hate. I guess we’ll see how the next couple of days go.
must say, even if I have been a lot critic about the bew ruin, that yes, match making is going better on ps4 tonight.
dont know about pc but here all good so far, even toxicity is not as high as I expected.
rework on doc and map is awesome, just two games are not enough to judge the doctor but he seems stronger, playing against.
Still keep my opinion on ruin,tho...it's so weak you can't even notice,not even need to waste time looking for the totem. Basically a wasted slot, a totally ridicolous perk
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the only good thing is that ruin can be replaced with already existing perks, personally I have removed ruin a while ago and replaced with dying light, I already used thanatophobia and those two works better, at least you dont need to worry for the totem.
As for the new ruin, it is simply a non-existing perk, I finally could see it while playing and just confirmed my impressions.
Terribly easy to handle as a surv (not even need to bother finding the totem) and totally useless as a killer, basically a favor to new players.
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basically he said "why didn't you go away and let us gen rush you and then teabag you and then allow us to send you EZ messages?" XD
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@Nutty_Professor said:
When I play killer I always struggle on Disturbed Ward even against mediocre survivors. I've even lost to four survivors using self care whilst on the Disturbed Ward. Disturbed Ward is a large a map which makes it harder to provide map pressure. As well as having a massive god loop in the main building.
Haddonfield gets a lot of attention for being a bad map for the killer, which it is. For me personally I rather play on Haddonfield then on the DIsturbed Ward. I'm more likely to have a somewhat good game on Haddonfield then I would on Disturbed Ward.
Only current Lery's, the Yamoaka maps, The Game that I dislike more as killer (I am a Hillbilly main).
Whilst Father Campbell's Chapel (Disturbed Ward's counterpart) is one of my favourite maps to play on as both survivor and killer. In my opinion it's pretty for balanced for both sides.
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I was a red rank killer before the latest rank reset, but I'm taking a break from playing at red ranks as a killer whilst I learn how to play Spirit and Doctor (when he's released) for the upcoming rift.
althought that building is a disgrace for killers,I wouldnt say is as bad as haddonfield.
If you find them outside the building is really open a very visible map