kit_mason
kit_mason
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I am curious to see why most people pick map offerings. I personally use them for aesthetic reasons depending on the type of feeling I want for the next match.
But I also know that many people choose map offerings for strategic reasons. Why do you use map offerings?
Whatever your answer is, what is it about the aesthetics/strategy that you make you choose?
I think it's more nuanced than "Aesthetic" vs "Strategic" - I use them for achievement hunting, mostly. If I need to get a main building gen and escape I'll lock the map until I run out or get it.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615959#Comment_3615959
that wasn't the point friend, I'm referring to when you literally die, when the bleeding bar reaches 0% if all 4 survivors are on the ground and the killer refuses to hook them, about the boil over squads, my idea is easily exploitable, so it would need adjustments to have any chance of making it into the game :)
I know it means when you hit 0% - but I'm glad you recognise the issue of boil over exploiting this change. Hope you and the friends in here can figure out a solution even if I don't have one!
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@RFSa09 said:
Before the exit gates are energized, every survivor who ´´bleeds to death´´ should receive an effect similar to a plot twist, he would stand up and receive a speed boost, having a last chance to reset if the killer decides not to hook any survivors
If you want an easier explanation:
When the 4 minutes of bleeding are over, you will be healed, if you get downed again you will die
this isn't as oppressive as ´´unbreakable basekit´´ or ´´survivors who are downed can heal each other´´ (those 2 are really horrible ideas)
There are completely fine reasons to slug, though. Say we're on Dead Dawg Saloon and I have boil over, flip flop & unbreakable. The only win condition for the killer (if I take chases with a single braincell engaged and go down upstaris in main) is to bleed me out.
And that's fine. I have employed a strategy, and they have employed the countermeasure.
I get the frustration with unnecessary slugging, but any use of a basekit feature must consider the abuse of that basekit feature. I've essentially bought myself an extra chase beyond those four minutes with my build - if the door is opened in that plot twist final stand (i.e. after I use this feature to get picked up) I just blatantly win in 99% of cases - they'd have to have a way to Expose me, or find a way to hit me twice before I get through the gate and out.
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I mean that's just objectives. Genrushing and tunneling are just playing your objective. They're only unfun because it denies the other side an opportunity to play theirs.
That's how PvP games work.
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@bloodyknife said:
Freddy, Legion, Hillbilly, Onryo, Skull Merchant, and now Trickster. Who's next? Twins or maybe Singularity by making him worse than he already is?
This has to stop.
half of those are still fun? Legion, Skull Merchant and Trickster absolutely all are.
don't get me wrong, as a hux main I'm concerned about a potential rework coming through the pipeline for a killer that is on the whole fine (just needs some QoL and the understanding that he has a high skill floor). but it's wrong to argue that they always end up unfun.
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@Mandy said:
Quality of life changes are things we are always looking at, for example the FOV slider that's going to be implemented shortly and the Survivor HUD that's currently in the game.
The lobby changes will take some time (I don't have a timescale), as things are likely to be reworked. Showing perks loadouts though is not fully part of that, and not decided if that will come into the game for various reasons - lobby dodging would likely increase, you see 3 other survivors with Distortion = Dodge, someone running No Mither = Dodge, someone running a solo survivor build = dodge, as some examples. Things are not cut and dried so before we make changes such as that it has to be considered very carefully both the positives and negatives, and depending which one outweighs the other.
Rather than lobby perks being shown, there's been some great ideas that I've seen recently where you see more in game itself, so for example the aura of a Survivor downed with Plot Twist having a different colour, I think that's something that's far more valuable in game.
I mean, are these builds not disliked for a reason?
Three Distorts make you a tunnel target, No Mither puts you at a grave disadvantage and against killers like Oni can entirely ruin your chances at survival, and Solo Survivors mean pushing a 3v1 from the start.
Fundamentally, if these builds are getting dodged, is that not a sign that those builds and perks are not constructive to you winning or losing as a team, and that they should be changed in some way?
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@malloymk said:
At least during events. My wife was able to play for the first time since the event. We got in two games before we quit because killers had to finish off the matches as soon as possible.
She was able to hop into one snow man though, so that was mildly fun for her.
What's the point of having these events when you can't even enjoy them? Killers. Read the room. Jesus.
An actual casual mode basically turns into a situation where people openly admit theyre not bringing meta stuff so people wanting an easy match will go all in on those games.
It's a sad reality, but there's not really a means to filter out for just one playstyle.
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@LazyClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609686#Comment_3609686
This is a live service game, there's no amount of convincing that is going to remove mine or many other vanilla players opinions on cheating. If you play non vanilla, you are a cheater plain and simple and should be dealt with immediately, so we don't have to deal with any of these issues in the first place. There's no amount of spam you can type that will change anyone's mind on this issue especially after someone has encountered the said cheaters repeatedly. In the EULA it directly states that any sort of modification to the files of the game is not allowed. You have no hill to stand on and are wasting your time.
Archol already covered the EULA (thanks for that) so I'll cover one more point that isn't just me repeating myself.
There's no amount of spam you can type that will change anyone's mind on this issue especially after someone has encountered the said cheaters repeatedly
You have zero vanilla way of knowing if someone has altered the way their game looks, especially if they're achieving those alterations with hardware rather than software. So are you just assigning your losses to perk icon alterations and basic brightness adjustments or something along those lines? There's a million reasons why a game results in a loss, and someone's perks being pink instead of purple isn't one of them.
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@Gargo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611072#Comment_3611072
report 4 players almost each game?
unless they have a source of haste in their build, they are cheating, and based on how often I run into cheaters, you are potentially misinterpreting survivor haste?
this event adds no new sources of haste. the snowmen hinder, the snowballs are a cute gimmick that do nothing, and firecrackers are flashbangs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
instead slow killers should get some kind of buff, or fast should get a nerf.
Fast killers can faceroll survivors and slow ones struggle. - killer speeds need to be more equal and then the game can be balaced better.
The issue is that would require BHVR recognsing an imbalance in killer strength, which if they're happy with killer balance as it currently stands, they are never going to do.
And presumably they are happy with killer balance as it currently stands, because if they weren't we'd be seeing major changes to make them happy.
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@Gargo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609710#Comment_3609710
and adds speedhack?
the winter event didnt readd blighted serum to the game. if you ran into a speed hacker, report them?
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It just adds cute little snowballs. This is the safest event they could've ever added.
I preferred when it mixed up gameplay a little more - Twisted Masquerade this year was really fun for instance, but as far as events go this is fine.
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@LazyClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605263#Comment_3605263
If you have a better idea mention it, unless you are on the side of the cheaters which I believe you are defending them. The legitimate phone number is a harsh one sure, but I don't see any other way to eradicate the cheaters other than these devs having to hire tons and tons of help which would cost way too much money, bvhr should not have to do this and its players should grow up and stop abusing the game. Look, this is a live service game and it's clear that we need a far better system then the one that we have because the cheaters/modders situation is getting worse and worse with dbd. I have had enough of us vanilla players having to play 24 times better than someone who can just easily abuse the exe without consequence. It's killing the player base and losing bvhr a lot of money. And you can easily find phone numbers on the internet or even through the govt directories so I don't see how this would pertain to any issues of danger. And already, I would rather have my phone number leaked than my ip address manipulated since you can obtain a lot more info than you ever could on that than with a phone number. So already your "dangerous" narrative that you are trying to set is quite ridiculous.
I just want the cheats gone completely, I don't care what you do with your monitor, I only care if its modded content, I want it gone forever along with those players that use it as well. You guys who keep bringing your monitors up in this discussion are just straight up dramatic and are completely missing the point. This game is straight up miserable facing cheaters because anything in dbd that is altered to your advantage brings you up by a mile over the other player (thats not even an exaggeration a literal mile) no monitor setting is going to do that in dbd. Im not doing this for likes, Im not doing this because I want recognition, I want these devs to have more and more options on how to deal with this problem without having to blow a bunch of money. And hey if it's a bad idea im sure they will catch it regardless. Because they have an amazing product here and it would be a shame for more and more players to leave it because they peaked and now constantly face cheaters. It really never had to come to any of this idea if everyone played fair, but they are not and they need to be punished from playing dbd so the actual players that spend money on the game can enjoy the game instead of being discouraged from it.
As I always do with replies that I believe reach a length that falls beyond what is reasonable for a forum discussion about a video game, I'll cut all but the parts I want to most directly address. Additionally, I am going to intentionally avoid discussing the risks of maintaining a mobile phone database with you - I fail to see any progress with that conversation, so there's no point even discussing it, even if my position remains that it would very directly endanger the well-being of people that play DBD. With that in mind:
If you have a better idea mention it, unless you are on the side of the cheaters which I believe you are defending them.
Once again, you misrepresent the arguments of those that support filters or custom perk icons. Nobody is advocating for "cheaters" as a blanket statement. Given you read my prior post, it appears this discussion is entirely about filters, which by vaguely referring to them as cheaters it makes arguments against you sound tantamount to someone supporting having a speed hack turned on all the time, which nobody on here would ever support.
I have had enough of us vanilla players having to play 24 times better than someone who can just easily abuse the exe without consequence.
Cheaters - actual ones, as in the ones using wallhacks or speed alterations and the like - are banned all the time. BHVR can't talk about it, of course - video game hacking is an arms race, as BHVR improve their systems and hackers find workarounds - but be assured they do ban cheaters, as they're often very loud to complain when their account gets rightfully banned for using said cheats.
It's killing the player base and losing bvhr a lot of money.
Except that it likely isn't. At least on Steam, DBD boasts a very stable playerbase, and I'd presume that console DBD is in a similar situation. Were it to be costing BHVR a lot of money, they would be investing more in dealing with these issues, rather than implying crosshair filters are okay, as they did in their most recent AMA.
You guys who keep bringing your monitors up in this discussion are just straight up dramatic and are completely missing the point.
You are either:
- arguing that people are advocating for cheats that get you banned (such as wall hacks, speed hacks, etc), which nobody is.
- arguing that filters should get you banned, in which case "much of what people do with filters can be achieved by most hardware settings on monitors nowadays" becomes a relevant response.
Please, go ahead and point out which of those two options it is.
I agree cheats are awful to go against, but from what your post implies, our definitions of cheating seem wildly different, as I consider BHVR's existing actions regarding cheating to be sufficient.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607861#Comment_3607861
Because its 2 minutes of killer time wasted for every game they play. its 20 minutes after 10 games.
Then take heart in how deeply sad it is that they stand there for 2 full minutes waiting for you to show up to watch them press W out the door.
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@sheendazzling said:
literally noone. you want survivors to stop gen rushing and give them a side objective but no you refuse to use hex perks and instead you stack 4 gen regress perks. make up your mind folks
very few hexes bring an effect powerful enough to justify the risk of cleansing - the major exception ofc being Plaything/Penti, the former can be ignored and the latter will be quickly cleansed by survivors with a working memory.
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@Rillettes said:
Despite the fact that teabagging is largely considered bad manners and rude, 80% of survivors constantly teabag in front of open doors.
The devs should come up with an update that locks the exit for a player if this one teabags while being closer than 10 meters from it. That would reduce bad behaviours. So tired of those edgy kids constantly teabagging and spamming "ez ez" in chat afterwards. Please, this game is very good but it's community is terrible.
just dont go to the gates, alternatively just ignore that they're doing it? let them get their little BM play in before they leave, why does it matter so much they need to add a full punish for it
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can we maybe not continue to complicate the game with a second gamemode when its difficult enough seeing needed changes in the one we have?
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603028#Comment_3603028
What is this huge regression meta you are speaking off, though? I am curious.
Killer meta since Ruin's release has been to slow the game down - make it take longer. That hasn't changed, even if the perks used to achieve that have.
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@whskytangofxtrot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605218#Comment_3605218
well stop exploiting. lol... At least put party streamers in the tree or something in the meantime. Disable lockers. instead
"disable lockers" is so much more difficult than turning off your ability to equip a flashlight.
plus, how may killers interact with lockers?
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@LazyClown said:
It's apparent that we have gotten to a point where cheating is accepted in DBD and seems to be praised amongst the community. I already have a post mentioning why the game is designed the way it is to protect its survivors and keep chases unpredictable and fun overall for everyone playing the game. But unfortunately, with no reply from the developers and such a lack of respect for its vanilla players who care about other people's fun and fairness, here I am making another post against the cheating cabal because I believe what is going on is completely wrong and hurts any momentum to be gained for new players and to have constant play as well.
I will now recommend that we add in a system that traps cheaters and makes them feel extremely useless and will ultimately eradicate the dbd cheating problem forever, this is a live service game through in and throughout and should never ever be able to be modified or even have files being manipulated to gain a huge advantage amongst the vanilla players.
I recommend a system that with the EULA agreement to authorize a legitimate phone number so players of dbd can be kept in check and if you have anything in your file structure that is not of the vanilla settings to be immediately banned and have all loss of progress across the board to make sure that no cheat is ever allowed again. Overall, this change would be quite lucrative offering even more play for its consumers of the game since they will never ever have to deal with the frustrations and torment that the cheaters cause to its player's base. Look BVHR, we love your game so much and appreciate all hard work you've done, but ignoring players that mean most to your market, the console players to even the pc players that play vanilla on your game, we need these cheaters gone IMMEDIATELY. I don't think there's any other way to end cheating than making its players have to provide a phone number, your game is not just only fun but also addicting, at first it might be alarming for some players but overall, anyone that actually wants to play DBD will use their phone number. This will also show players that you nothing to worry about if you don't cheat.
It's apparent that we have gotten to a point where cheating is accepted in DBD and seems to be praised amongst the community.
Let's make this abundantly clear first of all - your definition of cheating is "adding cute alternative images to perks" and "making the game brighter or easier to percieve for those with issues with sight" as cheating, and your intentional omission of what you mean by "cheating" is incredibly telling. Nobody is out here in support of blatant cheats - speed hacks, wall, that sort of thing. What the community is entirely indifferent to is perk images or brightness/color alterations.
I will now recommend that we add in a system that traps cheaters and makes them feel extremely useless and will ultimately eradicate the dbd cheating problem forever, this is a live service game through in and throughout and should never ever be able to be modified or even have files being manipulated to gain a huge advantage amongst the vanilla players.
It's not a "huge" advantage. It's at best a slight advantage or a levelling of the playing field. If I brighten my game with my monitor's hardware settings, should I get banned too for having a "huge" advantage? Or am I just playing the game brighter than it was intended?
I recommend a system that with the EULA agreement to authorize a legitimate phone number so players of dbd can be kept in check and if you have anything in your file structure that is not of the vanilla settings to be immediately banned and have all loss of progress across the board to make sure that no cheat is ever allowed again.
This is where your suggestion stopped being ridiculous and began being dangerous. Requiring players to hand over personal details like a phone number, which will have to be verified, checked, and stored long-term by the devs, is a huge cost for preventing people from swapping out the pictures of their perks to slightly different ones, both in terms of actual money but also in man hours to create and ensure this system is working and will not end up leaking the phone numbers of tens of thousands of players, a not insignificant amount of which are in vulnerable groups like LGBTQ+ folk.
Even presuming the system works perfectly and everyone is somehow on board with handing a video game developer their phone number, which many won't be, how many chapter releases would you like to forgo whilst this system is implemented? Two? Three? Maybe a round four?
And, more realistically, the system won't work perfectly. Even should it not leak private data, cheaters will, as they always have, find a workaround. The implication that tying your game to a phone number will prevent cheating is ridiculous because nothing will ever truly prevent cheating once and for all short of perhaps the servers shutting down and the game being done. The risks for a complete lack of benefit highlight that any suggestion along these lines should be heavily and seriously reconsidered.
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I think the game is on the whole, pretty balanced. The side that wins is usually the side more dedicated to winning - be it through perks or mindset or skill.
I agree Survivors are weaker than they were, but in the sense that they were too strong for much of DBD's lifespan.
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@Laendra said:
Is there any plan to offer a counter to Killer Instinct? It really is overpowered from both a killer and survivor point of view as there is no way to avoid it
It's a killer power that is overall very niche - the biggest users of it are Legion, Dredge and Skull Merchant. Adding a way to counter it would fail to deliver on being a perk worth actually bringing into a match, and a basekit opportunity to counter it exists within each of these killers' powers - spreading out, for Legion and Dredge, and avoiding getting scanned, for Skull Merchant.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
Like EVERY GAME the Killer has this combo and it makes completing gens really impossible. And on top of that, they also tunnel at 5-4 gens.. When is this combo gonna get nerfed? I thought there was a ‘MeTa ShAkEuP’ every 6 months so the game doesn’t get stale.
You answered your own question.
"it makes completing gens really impossible".
Slowdown is required to stand a chance in balanced games. I wish it wasn't, but here we are.
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@Roco45 said:
Nothing new, SoloQ has been trash for Survs since SWF was introduced and BHVR haven't put a single ounce of effort into trying to balance anything, aside from the painfully stupid mechanic of showing what Survs are doing during the match. I've been with the game since it's early access when it was entirely a different game. Since the addition of Bots, I'm finding 80% of my SoloQ games end up with me and team of 3 bots against whatever Killer is deciding to tunnel at this current moment. I'd DC too if the DC penalties weren't some of the most ridiculously outlandish penalties in all of PC gaming lol
Regardless, at this point there is no logical reason to not add voice comms for all Survs. There is absolutely zero reason to not have it in the game as an added option to bring SoloQ to SWF level so that the disparity between the two can begin to end. If people don't want it, add an option to mute everyone, like every other game in existence, simple as #########; there is no justification to not have it as an option to aid players. Can anyone name an Asymmetrical PVP game that doesn't let players talk to each other? No? Ok. There's a reason for that.
I've said it once and I'll say it again - voice comms will not fix DBD. Not in the slightest.
It might help sometimes, in lobbies on NA where many people speak English, and in lobbies with four people willing to talk to win. But in games where not everyone wants to talk, or in regions with a larger variety of spoken langauge, or where people have different mindsets, comms will do nothing, and if the game is rebalanced around comms those games will be harder and feel even worse than they already do.
Beyond that, I'd like to see how many of your actual games contain three bots. I can see one DC every once in a while, maybe two. But three, regularly? I doubt it.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599798#Comment_3599798
i dont think they need to buff EMPs to compensate Soma's photo basekit.
they just need to put it basekit with corresponding nerfs to the overclock base duration & rework addon into something you don't have to run every game.
and even that is totally optional, because i'd rather not have singularity get into devs' scope ever, rather than seeing him get into a cycle of getting buffed so much he gets nerfed to the worse state than before.
Agreed on the last point - I think Hux is on the whole fine and any changes he needs are QoL rather than changing how strong he is.
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As a Singularity Main, please don't nerf EMPs further.
Making them very weak opens up creating Skull Merchant 3 Gen strategies on a different killer, and I'd quite like playing my main with a full lobby instead of ragequit DCs and constant advocacy for nerfs or reworks.
I'm all for suggestions that aim to address Singularity's pick rate, but making him unfun to play as and against is not the solution. I think the best thing to do would actually be to buff EMPs slightly and then make some or all of Soma Family Photo be basekit, thereby putting more focus on his power in chase and drawing away from using EMPs to camp gens.
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I stick around bc I need the killer's perk data and the final kill count to keep track of my stats properly, but if I wasn't doing that I wouldn't stick around, no.
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I think this rework missed the mark - he feels worse to play and isn't at all stronger (and potentially might even be weaker than he was prior)
3 knives/sec with 8 knives to take a health state (so 2.66s to injure with pinpoint accuracy, about in the middle of a Huntress pull-up without Addons) feels awful, and in many cases it's objectively better to just play the tile and basic them like an M1 killer. The lack of speed-up also makes the knives feel totally unrewarding to use.
Main Event on PTB was too oppressive, but it's new iteration on live feels like a complete non-addition to his kit. The idea that you can get an injure and then clean up with a Main Event I like, but it just doesn't feel powerful enough to justify being its own state of commitment. Maybe buffing it but also making it less often would help lean it back into what it's supposed to feel like - *a Main Event*.
As for the lack of recoil and 115, those are fine. Thanks for reading, and I hope you can make good use of these thoughts!
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@Cecaelia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594207#Comment_3594207
bruh bond is 36 meters, empathy is 128
if you want to do that you should run empathy not bond.
Didn't ask for build tips, was just answering your question.
Which applies to Empathy too.
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@Cecaelia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593900#Comment_3593900
Since when does bond work vs blindness homie? Hello?
The survivor's aura isnt hidden until they go down, to a survivor running bond. A survivor goes down and if they have object permanence they can presume they're in or near the spot they went down.
That's how it works vs Knockout's aura hiding.
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@BooperDooper said:
Having a killer with a bleed out build is no fun, let alone having it multiple times a week. I'm over laying on the ground for a total of 4 minutes, I'm over being unable to progress the game because all anyone is doing is picking each other up so we aren't all downed or don't bleed out. I'm also over killers thinking its a funny, quirky thing to do, it's just plain lazy.
Either nerf the perk so that it doesn't remove survivor aura or change it entirely
Or add basekit unbreakable after 1 or 2 mins... (although with this perk it'd still happen, it would just make it the slightest bit more bearable)
All the wraith did was down people and then move on to the next victim, we were all on it with picking each other up and healing to the best of our ability but people just kept getting downed, by the time we hit 2 gens we were all essentially stuck in the game and could only die slowly as one after the other finally bled out. I was the 2nd last survivor and I just went up to him to let the last person potentially get hatch, which they luckily did.
This should not be a first resort of getting kills in this game, boring, uncounterable in soloq and just hella annoying. I feel like this topic has been mentioned before but nothing has changed. So I'm begging behaviour to look into this and do something about it, sacrificing/moris should be encouraged, not bleeding out, there is not intractability for survivors just being straight up bled out. Why this perk was ever made in the first place to encourage this kind of gameplay is beyond me, but it's been time to remove it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CNXCMWBB0PWA/over-it.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EBW21VWPVLK8/overit.png
There's a selection of perks that need flat out reworks becuase they only exist to enable unfun strategies - Knockout and Insidious are two off the top of my head
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@UnusedAccount said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590518#Comment_3590518
So you're saying usage rate for WoO would be even higher considering its 34% for Mid-High.
A teachable perk is used 1/4 by mid-high Survivors for NO particular reason.
Every perk in a survivor's build is for a reason - in the case of Windows, it has benefits when it comes to eliminating map RNG guesswork and also knowing what pallets have been thrown by teammates.
And i'm not saying anything about WoO's usage rate. I have no idea what the true value is.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
The combo effectively full heals the survivor by giving them 2 extra life states. After hitting one survivor, the one other can tank another hit using their Endurance. The combo almost completely undos a chase that is won. It reminds me of old instant heal syringes but stronger.
Depending on the situation you're in, e.g. under a pallet or at risk of a flashlight save, it may be impossible to avoid it. The main way it gets me is when I'm kicking a pallet, another survivor randomly comes and uses the combo. I usually break the pallet before picking up the survivor.
No. It removes all of the risk For The People originally had and essentially makes both survivors temporarily healthy. Individually, the perks are fine (albeit buckle up might be a bit strong still), but together they're an issue.
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@Swooz said:
I suggest 50% of the time someone gets random perks, 50% of the time they get to choose their perks.
It resets every day, first game of the day is random perks, and it changes after every game.
There'd be an option to play random perks twice in a row if you wanna synchronize with a swf so you all get to pick your perks simultaneously.
If a killer goes up against a SWF that has no random perks on any character, they do not get random perks but get to choose their perks.
People would just dodge the second they got a perk set they weren't happy with - and sure, you could make it so that if you DC it forces random perks next game, but not only is that presenting random perks as a punishment but also survivors would find a way to quickly end the games they were in with random perks so they could play the game with the builds they like.
I'm all for discussions surrounding perk balance and discussions about implementing random perk slots into the game, but this isn't the way to achieve either.
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This conversation has gone in-depth on Survivor Universal Perks (mostly an argument about Windows of Opportunity), but nobody's brought up Killer Universal Perks, even a little bit.
When Stranger Things' perks go back to their characters, there will be no Universal Perk that grants generator slowdown, as Surge will be locked behind Auric Cells (or the Shrine of Secrets, for one week every year or so presuming every perk gets a round in the shrine once).
It's no secret that slowdown is the strongest asset a killer can bring into their game. Just making a game last that tiny bit longer than it would without can make a huge difference, and with Surge especially chases that end up too close to gens can give the killer significant enough pressure to win the game.
If nothing else, we desperately need to have at least one okay slowdown perk be Universal, given your best Iri Shard option right now would be to purchase Clown for Pop Goes The Weasel (other options include Artist for Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance and Plague for Corrupt Intervention).
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@UnusedAccount said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588113#Comment_3588113
New players aren't using WoO...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AOQJ38SC08EH/woo-usage.png
Please stop lying.
Nightlight is primarily used by mid to high MMR players. I doubt most new players even know what Nightlight is, let alone use it to keep track of their performance. So we're absolutely going to see meta builds be the most popular ones on Nightlight, and cannot use it to interpolate what low MMR players are using because they're excluded from the site's dataset.
By inferring that the entire playerbase uses Nightlight equally and then also presuming that because of the presence of MFT and Lithe (given every other perk on that list is relatively easy to acquire) that the only people using Windows are mid-to-high MMR, you're presenting an incomplete view of the picture and presenting it as a complete view - an easy mistake to make, sure, but one that needs to be addressed when it does show.
Finally, please don't be rude. We all want the same thing here - for the game to be the best it can be, so there's no need for hostility.
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all removing mmr will do is make your games have even more random outcomes than they feel like they do already.
plus, little timmy who got dbd yesterday can go against a 4 man swf that's been playing since the game came out. and nobody wants that.
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@PastaSauce said:
Considering the number of complaints i still see about Killers saying AFC is too strong, the idea that it does nothing is ridiculous. Yes, if you know what you're doing you can work around it, but where this actually matters (at low mmr) killers generally don't know how to effectively camp from a distance.
Secondly, you cant define the changes in gameplay this has had out of existence. The changes are real, no matter how much you want to reject them. Yes, there are still issues with the system, the solution is to modify it, not to get rid of it. Devs have already said they are going to make changes so that tombstone doesn't go through endurance, and i'm sure they will consider other changes. The fact you decide to ignore all of this kinda comes off as you being dishonest.
Considering the number of complaints i still see about Killers saying AFC is too strong, the idea that it does nothing is ridiculous. Yes, if you know what you're doing you can work around it, but where this actually matters (at low mmr) killers generally don't know how to effectively camp from a distance.
Given your accusation of dishonesty, I'll be blunt:
...that adds yet-another bar new survivors have to ascertain the meaning of (and new killers have to learn the existence of)
I outright state that I think this is at it's most potent in low MMR, but due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the survivors. I literally say the thing you're accusing me of not saying, and express my belief that it's a bad thing - that a mechanic that does very little punishes people simply for the act of not knowing it is bad.
Secondly, you cant define the changes in gameplay this has had out of existence. The changes are real, no matter how much you want to reject them. Yes, there are still issues with the system, the solution is to modify it, not to get rid of it.
Once again, I'll be blunt:
Name them. Name the changes. Becuase I named changes. That killers stand a teensy bit further away than they did before. Besides this, I knew that any suggestion to modify the AFC mechanic would be met with swathes of criticism an accusations that I'm an entitled [role] depending on what changes I wanted to see - and lots of condascension. It appears that suggesting to outright remove it was no better.
Devs have already said they are going to make changes so that tombstone doesn't go through endurance, and i'm sure they will consider other changes. The fact you decide to ignore all of this kinda comes off as you being dishonest.
I haven't seen this statement from the devs, but the presumption that I am omniscient when it comes to this game and it's correspondence and am therefore intentionally withholding information is flattering, to say the least.
But I'd ask that you presume a lack of malintent next time? People are allowed to not know things.
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@ElionTron10 said:
i just want to know why some killers tunnel at 5/4 gens. It just takes the fun away and it needs 0 skill. Is it even possible for a solo Q team to win such a round ? A 3 v 1 at 4 gens? i understand that it is necessary to tunnel at 1/2 Gens but at 5 gens is a free win and its just annoying to be a survivor in such a round. Bhvr just should buff DS so its Meta again.
Last round when i played a DBD Match a Dwight with 20 Hour play time got tunneld out from a Blight with over 1000 Play hours. The other 2 wanted to kill themselves and were all slugged and I had to hide for 2 minutes so I could get the Hatch.
So they win.
That's the entire reason.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589425#Comment_3589425
The whole point of facecamping was that it made trades too difficult for uncoordinated teams. When the killer is farther away, being able to perform a hook trade is significantly easier because the killer has to move closer first while the unhook is being done.
Killers are allowed to defend hooks and not every hook is going to be a free unhook for the survivor.
Killers are allowed to defend hooks and not every hook is going to be a free unhook for the survivor.
I know. I feel like i'm having to say this 20 thousand times because y'all are inferring that I'm advocating for something I'm not.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589425#Comment_3589425
Face camping is by definition the act of standing right in your face, like this close. Whereas camping as a whole from further distance is something else, either camping or proxy camping...
So the goal of anti face camping (standing like 20cm away from the hook) has been achieved. Sure there are still other problems but the one this thing was designed for was reached so.... where is the issue?
That the issue of face camping was not just "oh no the killer is stood right next to me" it was "the killer has made unhooking genuinely impossible outside of a very coordinated SWF and against Bubba not even then", which it has not fixed. So why bother keeping the mechanic in the game? Who's only mad about the killer being stood 20cm from their face and no other aspect of face camping?
@Hermit said:
Face camping was already long gone when they implemented that you can unhook from all angles.
With this new „Anti-Face-Camp“ feature you can just guard the hook from a safe distance and when you see a survivor going for the unhook you can get closer and still get your trade, just like before.
This is quite literally my point. "just like before."
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589613#Comment_3589613
Just bring two survivors and approach in a way that the shock cannot hit both, when the first one gets interrupted by the shock you walk in and unhook. It is really not that hard man.
Step 1: Get two survivors that know they're both needed for the unhook.
Step 2: Get them to correctly, without comms, position themselves so they can get the unhook.
Get this consistently in SoloQ and I'll stop complaining about the difference between SoloQ and SWF.
@Komodo07 said:
As this thread and many others before it have shown, people are using the term face camping but really meaning proxy camping or just keeping an eye on the hook from a distance.
BHVR addressed literal face camping, which was a negligible issue at best and a good way for killers to waste their time. Proxy camping is not going to be addressed since it has been acknowledged as a valid killer tactic by BHVR multiple times.
The face camping mechanic can stay or go, it doesnt matter to good killers anymore than it did before it existed.
How people define face camping and proxy camping is entirely arbitrary. I'd consider a bubba stood just outside of the anti-camp radius but ready to shove forward and facecamp the second a survivor shows up to pause the timer still face camping. Wouldn't you?
Fundamentally, I think people have misunderstood my point by filling in my motives for why I want it to be changed. I care equally if the killer camps me at 20cm or 8m. It's camping either way. But the anti-facecamp mechanic just adds yet another layer of unexplained complexity to playing matches that new players *are not taught*, and if it's not even making getting face-camped easier to deal with then what's the point in keeping it in the game?
More broadly, I'd appreciate not being condascended to by a dozen people with the cookie cutter response whenever someone complains about anti face camp. I know it wasn't meant to fix a killer just checking in - referred to as proxy camping. My argument is that killers still undertake actions that I would regard as face camping (sitting unmoving just outside the radius until a survivor shows up and then moves in to blatantly face camp), so the mechanic achieves nothing and should be removed.
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@Coordi said:
The change was never meant to address camping as a whole; only face-camping. Do you feel like in your experience it doesn't address face-camping well enough?
My experience is that it doesn't really address face camping at all, and only adds another bar to the game that would confuse new players on both sides.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589276#Comment_3589276
what is wrong with trading now? what is the Killer even allowed to do?
Nothing. I'm just saying that anti facecamp hasnt meaningfully changed the way killers camp nor the way you resolve it.
@Crowman said:
The system was never meant to prevent all camping as a whole. It just punishes killers who stand next to the hook the entire time which was heavily complained about.
I know. It just doesn't punsih that because they stand slightly away from the hook instead whilst still achieving what a facecamp did.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/397576/remove-the-anti-facecamp-mechanic
The feature got rid of facecamping, so it did what it was supposed to do... What exactly is the problem here?
Sure, if you consider the problem of facecamping just that the killer was stood right next to you and consider no further implications with facecamping as a whole (which were not resolved).
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Stand ever so slightly further away than they used to.
If they’re standing further away, then survivors have a much better chance of pulling of a save. Sounds like the system is a success to me 🤷♂️
Against the killers that were adept at facecamping, they can still prevent unhooks.
Bubba you still trade at best, Slinger can still hold a would-be unhooker on-harpoon to buy extra hook time. Against killers that were bad at it before, they're still bad at it. So nothing has changed.
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@The_05_counsel said:
For the more in depth reasoning behind my thoughts please read my additional comments thank you.
having the ONE killer with only FOUR perks total have to jump through multiple hoops with extremely specific requirements to activate a single perk once, while also having the FOUR survivors with FOUR PERKS EACH needing only one EXTREMELY easy requirement to activate multiple perks at a time makes no sense at all and is totally bs.
instead they should be reversed with survivors having to jump through multiple hoops and killer needing only simple tasks, this would make sense because this game is a GOD DAMN 4v1, with survivors already having an easier objective then killers this just seems like an obvious idea.
like come on with stuff like bbq and chilli being considered a strong aura reading perk for the killer while being useless on smaller maps and outright negated by certain survivor perks is saying something. While survivors also have ######### like MTF that only requires you to be injured to keep haste buff PERMANENTLY ACTIVE!!!
PLEASE BHVR FIX THIS
On the whole, the game is balanced fine.
If you're struggling on killer, it's likely an issue of pressure mismanagement, rather than any specific perk. As for MFT, your specific example - it's being nerfed as we speak.
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The utility of infection is Tier 2/3? That's... the benefit of infecting survivors, which Xeno can't achieve.
Just because two killers have a ranged attack that's a whip doesn't mean one is just a worse iteration of the other? Their powers are manifested, utilised and countered in different ways.
I do agree with Jack though - Nemmy absolutely needs an addon pass.
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They are too inconsistent. There aren't enough Scourge Hooks. I frequently get games where I get 0-1 Scourge hooks making Scourge perks useless in some matches
You're guaranteed four.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585787#Comment_3585787
"This is untrue unless you're playing on a map with very high levels of sight line blocking like Hawkins or RPD (which is an issue with any LoS-requiring killer, like Huntress, Deathslinger, or even arguably killers like Billy). Reapplying Slipstream is as quick, if not quicker than removing it, and that's ignoring that if the survivor you're chasing is the one removing it then they are slowed, often causing them to take a hit."
I checked cocolatte_'s recent matches. Throughout most his matches, he only has 1 survivor Slipstreamed (the one he is chasing) and occassionally a 2nd survivor. The reason for this is that there's no point of trying to spread Slipstream when survivors can remove it so easily.
"It, by the very definition of the term, was only successful short-term. A successful rework would not have necessitated the nerfs that have placed him in the sorry state he is in now."
So you're telling me if a killer was successful for 100 years but becomes outdated at 101 years, the rework was a failure? Years is a very long time for a video game. The rework was a success. Never heard of the term "long-term"? I also don't see the point of this argument. Freddy was the first rework they did in the very early stages of the game when BHVR had limited experience. That rework doesn't reflect what BHVR would do today.
"You missed the word "healthier" in my post. Many of the killers, whilst stronger, are not in a healthier place than they were - especially in cases like Sadako and the proposed Trickster changes (i.e. some of the most recent reworks we've had). Given Singularity's strength is fine - B is average, after all - the issue is health, which as I have now said what seems to be an endless number of times, are addressed with QoL changes, not reworks."
Nope. The only killer that isn't healthier is Sadako. It isn't "many" like you said. Trickster isn't out yet, so can't be used as an argument.
The changes I suggested aren't reworks. They're mostly QOL changes. Auto camera targeting is QOL. Better pod placement logic is QOL. Nerfing Slipstream removal is partially QOL.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585912#Comment_3585912
I disagree. It's as you said, he can just quickly Slipstream you again if you are in chase with him. Having a teammate come in for an EMP won't change much. It's better if that teammate just sat on a gen, which would have more impact.
You're now moving the goalposts, so I'm going to make this my last response on the subject.
Your Freddy response is reducing my argument to the absurd. Freddy's rework didn't benefit him long-term within the context of the game's life cycle. The point of pointing this out is that you are advocating for reworks as an often-successful means of improving killers, a fact I refute as they're not as surefire, and haven't been throughout the game's life cycle, as they're still not getting it right if we look at Sadako.
The argument for reworks was also why both Twins and Trickster were brought into this discussion in the first place, but now it's being asserted that I can't discuss Trickster but you can discuss Twins?
I've explained why nerfing slipstream removal in the way you have described is not QoL. It's worsening the survivor experience and validating less engaging strategies on the side of the killer. Auto camera targeting removes hiding within a pod's range entirely and makes placing a pod and entering it a surefire way to find a survivor you have lost, every single time, whilst also creating a power that might as well go off automatically (which would both then also lead to less engaging strategies on the Killer's side.)
And we're both advocating for better pod placement logic. In short, if you want a killer with a lower skill floor, they already exist. I wish you the best of luck in that endeavour.
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ah yes because being new and getting curb stomped by 12,000 hour killers without escape feels so much better than the system we have now that is marginally less unfair than that.
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@HolyDarky said:
I like to play Singularity because he is a complex killer and you always have to use your power. In my opinion, he is overall a good and strong killer and does not need any strong changes. However, he could get some tweaks:
- The Addon Ultrasonic Sensor should be basekit because this add-on is too weak on it's own and it feels not fair that Xenomorph can hear the generators in her tunnels but also see footsteps around her. Why does Singularity need an add-on what another killer has basekit?
- The EMP should get a slighty nerf: Firstly, survivors should not get free EMPs from the Sluppy Cases. Either they must finish the last 10% to open it; need a bigger low down when they use it; survivors lose their EMPs when they get hit (like tabes from Onryo); or the Sluppy Cases produce new EMPs once their first one are used. It feels not fair that his infection is so easy to remove when its not that oppressive as the infection from Wesker/Mastermind. Next, Singularity should get a better notification, when a survivor uses an EMP. I mean, why get Wesker/Mastermind killerinstinct when a survivor uses the spray or why gets Plague a global notification when someones gets rid of her infection - additionally, she can also see where the survivor is based on the new aura of her spring. It feels so unfair that Singularity only gets a sounds notification when he is nearby. Otherwise the EMPs are mostly fine. I like the teamworkpart that survivors have against this killer.
As someone that uses Live Wires, it's nice to have that feedback when a cleanse goes out- basekit killer instinct on cleanse might not be a horrid idea. Other than that, I think EMPs are mostly okay? They felt oppressive on launch but learning to play around them in their now-weakened state is mostly fine- especially since lots of survivors fail to remember the hinder on use at all.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585715#Comment_3585715
"I'm going to ignore specualtive statements on a world where Singularity's pick rate cuts by more than half of what it is now, because fundamentally the reason why Twins is unpopular is far more deeply rooted in their playstyle and bugs than Singularity is. They have entirely different issues and those issues are addressed in entirely different ways."
singularity does share something in common with twins. There is some slugging component to Singularity because when you hook a survivor, the survivor loses infection. If you leave survivor slugged on the floor, they keep their infection and when an uninfected survivor pick-up that survivor. that survivor becomes infected. The more survivor that are infected, the longer your overclock duration lasts. The base-kit encourages you to perform that gameplay. That is why Cocolatte is using a perk called Knock out. Knock out is slugging perk that removes aura of survivors on the floor. Cocolatte is using slugging to spread infection. He is putting camera on the Slugged survivor then chasing another survivor, infecting another survivor and attempting to down a second survivor. If survivor on floor is pick-up, he goes back to his camera and teleport's back to the slug. By doing that, he has 3 survivors infected. It replicates Singularity's iri add-on Denial Requeistion Form which begins trial with 4 infected survivors.
this is another reason why singularity is difficult to play killer at base-kit. you need game-sense and understanding how to slug to keep entire team infected. Infecting people, hooking people and balanced your slugging with infection is very complex gameplay at base-kit. Soma Family Photo add-on greatly simplifies singlurarity gameplay because like I said, you only need 1 survivor infected so it becomes as simple as fire pod, shoot, keeping teleport till you down survivor, hook rinse repeat. At base-kit, you have to do all these other steps involving slugging to keep entire team infected to have a good enough overclock for the entire game.
the quote you used was originally mine, so I'll respond to it:
Whilst I agree there is a slugging component that can be utilised in singularity that you went into with excellent depth, Twins' issues lie far beyond just slugging (although that is a part of it) they suffer from some absolutely awful bugs - easiest example is victor randomly dying on stairs as part of an anti-stuck measure.