kit_mason
kit_mason
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@FunkadelicPeach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674013#Comment_3674013
Bummer you don't want to read the post but still chose to respond! That seems incredibly closed minded. You have time to share your opinion but not try to see from others perspectives! That is part of the problem I tried to highlight in my post...
Your response seems to be mostly "deal with it", which a lot of us survivor players have been doing, for the last year or so as this problem has progressively gotten worse.
If you actually chose to read the post you will see that I am not advocating for "only catering to survivors". I simply think the balance should be closer to 50/50 (kill vs escape), or maybe 60% escape, 40% kill, since more players will get to experience the "winning" aspect of the game, with killers still being able to guarantee secure at least one kill per match.
Additionally, I mentioned this in another response above yours that it seems like you didn't take the time to read before sharing your opinion on the subject... - Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base, and I think right now it's closer to 40-45% if the stats I read were correct (which they very well may not be. I'll admit). If some healthy changes to the game make some people pick up survivor instead of killer, that would be healthy for the game. Decreasing queue times and helping SBMM be more accurate.
You know what, that's a fair point, so I'll open my mind. Let's address both your original post and your response to me. I'm not going to respond to every line, mostly due to overlapping responses, so if you don't have a speciifc point get it's own address it's probably addressed somewhere else. I also cut any paragraphs that I think were addressing specific games you had played that day.
Survivors vs Killer. 4v1. always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to.
No. You shouldn't be catering to either side. Argue you think the game is catering to killers all you want, but "they should cater to survivors instead" isn't a point you should be making.
The people who experience MORE of the game should be getting the 60% escape rate.
Doesn't the killer technically experience more of the game, given they're the only participant essentially forced to be present for all of it?
Why is it that the majority of the player base is experiencing losses more often than wins?
This fundamentally depends on your definition of a win. From my own data (~500 games played over the last two months, split 60/40 survivor/killer) 0/1/2k matches are equally likely to happen compared to 3k/4k matches. From the perspective of "2 escapes = win", the game is balanced.
[Issues such as] Gen rushing, tunneling,
Both are just pushing your objective optimally, and shouldn't be addressed. If you dont want to get gen rushed apply pressure better, if you don't want to get tunneled loop better.
map balance,
A lost cause. Making every map equivalently balanced would mean you'd have to make them the same. I prefer map variety, to be honest.
heal speed,
Heals are currently well-balanced, and we just got a nerf to mangled to buff healing slightly.
slugging
Was attempted to be fixed by basekit unbreakable but was poorly recieved by basically the whole community.
and even hook camping, still (proxy)
Proxy camping leaves openings for unhooks to happen. Your team being less skilled than their opponent is not a problem the devs should fix for you.
the fact that perks like bond, unbreakable, and windows of opportunity are not base kit is horrible for new players as well.
Basekit windows would be horrible for me as an Object of Obsession player - more visual noise to contend with isn't what I want. I can see the benefit of basekit Bond, though.
The game has gotten so unbelievably frustrating to play for survivors (but even killers, from some community members, I hear), especially with this new update.
Which at time of original posting had been out for... less than 12 hours! I've heard of not giving things a chance to settle but this is a new level of instant-reaction.
The inability to guarantee yourself an escape no matter how good you are vs the ability to get at least 1 kill no matter how BAD you are, is stark and easily observed.
You are part of a team. You will obviously, then, lose as a team. Your individual skill is 1/4 of the puzzle. And as I said earlier, your team's failings are not BHVR's job to fix.
Your response seems to be mostly "deal with it", which a lot of us survivor players have been doing, for the last year or so as this problem has progressively gotten worse.
I know. I mostly play survivor. My response to the way the meta has shifted (ever so slightly towards killer but still on the whole balanced) has been to improve. I started 1v1ing recently to get more direct feedback, even. It's been fun.
If you actually chose to read the post you will see that I am not advocating for "only catering to survivors".
So when you said "Survivors vs Killer. 4v1. always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to." That... wasn't you saying the game should be catering to survivors?
Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base
And if they make up 0% of the playerbase, nobody gets to play! Both sides of this game are important.
I look forward to your snarky response of "I aint reading all that".
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674009#Comment_3674009
The game already encourages lobby shopping when you see a full group of survivors with flashlights, medkits or toolboxes.
And that's bad.
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@jamally093 said:
So the devs walks up to you and says "hey (insert name) we're allowing you to change the requirements for only one achievement which is it?"
Note Adepts won't work as your not changing the adept for everyone instead one person so best to leave the adepts alone.
Power Moves 8 wins -> 1 win.
It's a perkless adept challenge. I dont know why they treated it like 1/8th of the challenge.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/407836/remove-broken-status-from-weaving-spiders
This perk is already picked like in 9 games out of 10. It's fine as it is since it permanently repairs all gens on the map for 10%. If you are that concerned about being broken because of it, use perks that can work when you are wounded so you can synergize WS with the rest of the load-out.
This perk is already picked like in 9 games out of 10.
...because it's a new system to the game? People wanna mess around with it. Arguing that a perk released 12 hours ago is gonna remain at the same level of popularity as it does now is ridiculous.
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@FunkadelicPeach said:
Survivors vs Killer. 4v1. always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to. The people who experience MORE of the game should be getting the 60% escape rate. The justification I have seen around the 40/60 killrate-vs-escaperate is laughable, at best. "We want the killer to seem powerful and scary"... Then make the game more scary and fun? Don't balance the game to be less than 50/50? Why is it that the majority of the player base is experiencing losses more often than wins? This makes no sense to me. This is the only game I've ever experienced where I have put in 1000 hours and my win rate is still below 50% (and will remain so, because the developers coddle the killer player base). Please consider balancing for your majority player base and get those numbers closer to 60/40. If that is unacceptable and you still need to coddle to solo-players with a power complex, then at least make it 50/50.
This game has gotten exponentially less fun for survivors, unless you are coordinated and playing with a team. I have been playing for roughly 2 years and I am so sick of each update making killers more and more powerful with no addressing issues that have been plaguing the game forever. Gen rushing, tunneling, map balance, vault speed, heal speed, slugging, etc etc etc. Not addressing core issues like slugging and tunneling (and even hook camping, still (proxy)) seems to be blatant disregard for the fun and majority of the player base. These are issues that could be at least temporarily resolved with simply adjusting some numbers (such as base kit BT, Base kit unbreakable, and base kit kindred).
These issues are annoying enough for seasoned players, but the fact that perks like bond, unbreakable, and windows of opportunity are not base kit is horrible for new players as well. The amount of times I have tried to introduce a friend to this game only to play for OVER an hour and not get a single escape is not acceptable.
The game has gotten so unbelievably frustrating to play for survivors (but even killers, from some community members, I hear), especially with this new update. Weaving spiders is a joke and a horrible perk design, the double pallets and main building on the new map are horrible, and the new killer is incredibly overpowered (speed, teleporting, etc).
I know for a fact this post will be called out by a bunch of mid-ladder killers who feel the need to "win" every game. 1 kill and 2 kills isn't enough. Gotta get all 4 and then leave the last guy to bleed out on the ground while tea-bagging him... That's the thing, right??? Look - When the killer gets to "win", it's dynamic. It's subjective. You could feel good about getting 1 kill if it was a guy who was really good in chase. But with survivors, every person who doesn't get to escape is a real player who is experiencing a "loss".
The inability to guarantee yourself an escape no matter how good you are vs the ability to get at least 1 kill no matter how BAD you are, is stark and easily observed.
The easiest thing to speak to this is how decent killer players can get 50+ 3k/4k streaks in a row, but there is no way to guarantee a 50 (or even 10) streak with 3+ survivors escaping, even with SWF.
Fix this! Most killer players seem to have an ego and power complex issue. I feel as though they are likely being coddled simply because they are the "powerful" presence in the community. They are the ones who have (more of) the ability to be toxic, dictate the sportsmanship of the game, and be a demanding, loud, and uncooperative presence on the forums.
I totally understand this post has a lot of "us vs them" language, and a lot of visible frustration. While some of this may be me just venting my feelings and frustration as someone who has devoted a ton of time to this game, I do believe some of it is also a fair critique. I hope readers can pick and choose what they believe to be a valid critique rather than writing off the whole post/discussion simply because I've been the victim of some really horrible games tonight, and I'm frustrated with the game, lol.
I aint reading all that
you need 5 people to make a match, stop arguing that you should only ever cater to survivors because if nobody plays killer you wont be able to play either
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@Zaydin said:
Is it because they know no killer in their right mind will go against a full four man bully squad?
Because lobby shopping is bad for the game, and informing the killer of who's teamed encourages lobby shopping?
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Why would anyone queue to maybe go against SWF ever again? Meaning SWFs can't play, so they stop playing, causing a huge hit to the active playerbase.
It's a cute idea to make killer matches easier, but it's bad for general game health.
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@LazyClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666237#Comment_3666237
You won't stop the killing situation because killers have to kill. Eventually the killer player base will just lose interest in this game and move on, it's actually quite sad survivors understand their role completely, but they never understand the killer role, killers have to kill no matter what.
Can we please not turn every thread into "the side i dont play is mean and toxic but the side i play is just doing what we have to do to win!!"
We get it. Both sides want to win. Y'all can stop pretending this is a unique to one side thing now.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667016#Comment_3667016
I think its exactly how it would be used because people really overblow just how many "toxic" encounters they have on all media. A part of this community that truly is toxic is on twitter, because theres not a single good thing that comes from that site. Coincidencently, its also where you hear most of the whining and crying.
90% of the time things are chill You get the occasional pouting baby sure, but you just gotta ignore them and move on. No point in trying to reason with the unreasonable.
Toxicity wasn't the only issue though. Most people would use voice comms to give callouts (even basic ones) which open the way to issues with language barriers and the games that are toxic (no matter how many or few you think will be toxic) having no comms whatsoever.
It's fun to think this sytem would only be used for casual conversation, but it would be used for serious comms as often if not more often.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666944#Comment_3666944
who said the game had to be balanced around it?
People need to start to realize that balance does not equal fun, and what we really need are more fun little quirks. Nick Cage was a pretty big success because it is just a wild idea to have an actual celebrity in the game, but also because he brought some fun and unique perks.
The game needs more of this, and VC would bring that. Being able to semi roleplay has shown to be chaotic in games like Helldivers and Lethal Company, and DbD could absolutely use some of that.
While were at it, bring back things like Space Billy.
You're right, we should only consider the balancing rammifications of if the players use new features mega casually instead of competitively like the playerbase does with every other aspect of the game. /s
I understand the idea to mimic some of the fun that F13 had with its voice comms, but that's absolutely not how they would be used in DBD.
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@Shroompy said:
Like I understand not wanting voice chat in a game because you want to avoid toxicity, but to this day I have not seen a game where disabling VC wasn't an option.
Its just as dumb as people who complain about the endgame chat. Don't like it? just turn it off. Plain and simple.
"Just play at a major disadvantage in a game that would be rebalanced around survivors being able to communicate because people can't help but be rude to each other."
And that's ignoring how limited use this feature would be in servers like Asia and Europe with a lot of language diversity. "We lost becuase I don't speak French" isn't something I ever want to say.
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@Reinami said:
2 people immediately dced as soon as i landed a chainsaw hit, and the 3rd one dced right as i hooked the guy i chainsawed.
The question is. Did you like going against billy becuase he was fun? Or did you like going against billy because he was an easy win for you?
They liked him when he was garbage they dont now that he isn't. Simple equation.
(still my fav killer to vs tho)
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@LazyClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659927#Comment_3659927
So that's now the killers fault? The survivor objective is easily accessible. You act like survivors magically get thrown on hooks now?
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664047#Comment_3664047
You're saying we should just stop doing gens. Like that's going to stop you from tunneling. You know it won't.
Are we seriously still doing Us vs Them?
Both sides complete their objective because it wins them the game. That fact is independent of the way the other side acts.
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@SuperCop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661726#Comment_3661726
Who do you think they tunnel the hardest? Newer survivors that don't know how to loop. "Just loop" is not a solution.
Not if you're new, but last I checked you were not new - you're complaining about an issue that the fix for lies within your capabilities.
And newer lobbies don't have slowdowns, so punishing tunnels would only harm those matches anyways.
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@codebibi said:
tunneling is out of control it's every single game now wich make the game awful and really not fun to play for survivors and with the anti tunnel perks that has been nerfed to oblivion there's nothing survivors can do. they really need to do something about it.
You could loop the killer? They can't tunnel what they can't catch.
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@WinterDraft7 said:
So, even though this killer has been released quite recently, I still think this killer's power is a bit lacklustre when it comes to chasing survivors. The concept for this killer is absolutely awesome, don't get me wrong. But Singularity still feels weak AF, and it makes it impossible to use your own power, because survivors are on purposely abusing the EMP's, making it hard to chase survivors at all, or use the bipods. It makes me want to DC in nearly every game I go in, playing as Singularity. So, I hope I proved my point. Anyway, here are some changes I would like to make, to buff Singularity and make him stronger.
Buff:
Spawning With More Biopods
• The Singularity will now spawn in with 14 biopods to use. (Was 10) Singularity now has better surveillance on survivors in the environment.
EMP Deactivation Time
• EMP's will now deactivate a biopod down to 30 seconds. (was 45 seconds)
EMP Supply Crates
• EMP Supply Crates will now print an EMP for each supply crate, after the EMP has been used.
• Survivors no longer see the auras of supply crates.
Biopod Tagging Range
• Biopods can now tag survivors 24 meters away. (Was 20 meters)
Now, I don't know if these will be good changes or not, these are only my suggestions. But hopefully this doesn't make Singularity too strong or too weak, but stronger than he currently is right now. Anyway, thanks for reading, and I hope these changes come soon.
He doesn't really need buffs all that much, mostly just QoL. He's a very high skill floor killer compared to the rest of the cast, it should be expected that his pick and winrates are low.
EMPs haven't felt like that huge a burden to me. Smart placements if you wanna play territorially force survivors to use multiple EMPs to clear out the gen, and if an EMP gets used in chase, reapplying slipstream is usually ridiculously easy - the barest of time losses compared to print times.
I also worry that your proposed changes to significantly nerf EMP acquisition and usage would buff gen defense strategies focused on trying to hold the game hostage, which whilst weaker than prior to anti 3-gen changes could still function to more easily win games in public matches against less organised survivors, and I'd really prefer for my main to not become the new "Chess Merchant".
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@Genius_man_alive said:
every chain hits legion gains 4 meter dencreased terror radius down to 16 Meter
@Genius_man_alive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659930#Comment_3659930
just change from instict into aura reading, hes pretty suck to play right now
@Genius_man_alive said:
make all killer afte rleave chases in 5 second they gain 3% haste movement speed
So you, to be clear, want:
Less info when in power (remember, Legion's KI radius is set to their Terror Radius distance.)
Less info when in power (KI cannot be countered by anything, Aura Read can be countered by Distortion and Lockers)
But... you want his winrate to magically go up off of these nerfs? Make it make sense.
Your suggestion to give legion half a mural sketch on leaving chase (presumably for 5 seconds? wording unclear) would be minimally useful at best and when compared to the monstrously significant nerfs you slated for them would struggle to make their winrate anything of note.
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@SuperCop said:
That makes no sense since it's literally worse for the killer if the team gangs up on 1 gen. If you split up on gens they go slower. Splitting up would be more comparable to spreading hooks.
And complaining about gens is like complaining about hooks, which is clearly not what I'm complaining about. It's repeatedly hooking one survivor right off the hook. Tunneling. Not the same as chasing/hooking whatever survivor you see.
What? Splitting on gens is optimal, doubling or tripling a gen not only gives diminishing returns but also risks the killer pressuring more of the team should they come to the gen being doubled or tripled.
Working 2 or even 3 gens at 100% efficiency (1c/s) is far more efficient than working one gen at a diminished efficiency, especially in the early game.
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@SuperCop said:
I'm getting sick of it. Almost every match, almost every killer hard tunnels at 4~5 gens and you know what? They need to be punished. Yep. I said it.
Before you go saying punishing this action isn't a good idea or that survivors aren't punished, yes they are. Survivors can only vault the same window over and over, the entity "punishes" survivors for using the same window.
So why can't the entity block the hooks when you're trying to hook the same survivor consecutively?
This is why survivors become toxic later on btw.
Entity Window Blocking was added to mitigate the effect of literal infinites in DBD's earlier patches.
You want to not get tunneled? Improve your chase gameplay, and you'll make the killer get severely punished by losing the game for overcomitting to you.
And on the topic of survivor toxicity, "well they started it!" is tired, can we just stop pretending that's why? The side that's toxic does it to feel superior to their opponent. That's literally it.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656137#Comment_3656137
The last update (Billy, Grim Embrace, gen tap) boosted NL overage killrates quite a bit (3% and still rising within a relativly short period of time). We are now (NL) at exactly 57%, which is usually pretty close to -5% of reality.
Right now, i am pretty certaint, we surpassed the 60%, getting close to 62% killrate. And then this set of buffs? No way this is going to be 70% or above, but for sure pretty close to 64-65%. Huntress buff alone will be insane, big promise.
7.5.0 was 9th January 2024.
NL reports that prior to the update (29th Nov - 27th Dec) Average NL Kill Rate was at 55.96% (meaning escape rate was at 44.04%, slightly higher than BHVR's reports.) Hillbilly's personal Kill Rate was at 49.49%.
Compare to now, where our most recent NL data (24th Jan-21st Feb) shows 56.98% (meaning average escape rate was at 43.02%), with Hillbilly's personal Kill Rate having jumped over 10% to 63.25%.
Not only do I think this set of changes is significantly less drastic than Billy's were, but you are arguing we are going to see an unprecedented jump in kill rates off of it (again, we would need all of the six killers changed to hit a
70% kill rateto push a 40% to 35%).UPDATE: I did the math wrong, they'd actually all need to jump to 87.5% kill rates to push the average escape rate all the way down to 35%. So it's even more unprecedented as no killer in the game has ever even come close to this value to my knowledge.
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@Paternalpark said:
With the rest of the killer roster due for updates, I'd wager the survivor win rate will go to around 35% by end of year.
Or will survivors magically "get good"?
By "the rest of the killer roster" you mean Twins and Blight?
The six-killer buff set is experimental and realistically will not total to a 5% net kill rate increase on average, because together they only make up for 18% of matches played. They'd have to all increase their kill rates to near-70%, which is only currently achieved by one killer (Skull Merchant), whose unusually high kill rate is attributed to a high percentage of survivors giving up on hook against her.
The implication that this round of buffs (which I agree are, on the whole, fairly unnecessary) will contribute that greatly to kill rates is laughable at best.
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@Commander_Nefarious said:
maybe as a p100 reward or something? its a 1v4 so 4v16 perks, would a 5th perk slot greatly change the advantage towards killer? would be interesting to test in a ptb
What? No. Especially not as a p100 award, and advocating for that as a p100 award feels very much like bait.
Presuming this suggestion to be earnest though: Their fifth perk is, as others have said, their power, and it's addons.
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@Laeyon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646537#Comment_3646537
Im gonna be entirely honest, if you dont want to "sweat" then you dont play ranked? Ranked mode isn't about sweating anyway if you have the skill to perform well.
And there is a reward track for playing the game normally, the rift, so idk what your point is tbh.
Did you stop reading after the words "sweat fest queue" and miss the part where I pointed out casual would turn into "get stomped by sweat fest queue players"?
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So... a 6 second DS that also deletes one of their hooks for a significant period of the game?
Remind me again why anyone would ever run DS again?
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@Vespergaea said:
Lots of people have said a lot about the idea of a ranked queue, so I'll try to be brief.
My suggestion is: a ranked queue with rewards like profile cosmetics, or even character cosmetics, leaderboards, ranks visible in the lobby, and iridescent shards. Granted, I have a somewhat small (lol) 800~ hours on DBD, so do with that information what you will.
- Casual and competitively minded players in the same matches isn't much fun. Competitively minded survivors get upset about their teammates being worse than them and give up, and casual ones get tired of seeing the same 1/6th of the killer roster using the same 10 perks every game. Casual killers who wanna run goofy builds and learn new characters play against really strong survivor teams with good loadouts. The SBMM updates have done their job, but no MMR range tweaking will make it fun to play with and against people whose mindset is fundamentally different from yours (competitive, no holds barred, trying to win VS goofing off or unwinding at the end of a long day).
- If the idea of entirely new game modes is being played with, I'm sure the developers have thought about the impact of splitting the queue (this has been confirmed). If they decide it's worthwhile—I personally think it can be for a good enough side mode (or ranked queue, obviously)—I feel as though a ranked/casual split would do more for the longevity of the game than new modes that people may not enjoy.
- If concerns about how much of the playerbase is competitive/casual/somewhere in between, a survey would be good. I don't think there's been a player mindset survey in the past, or at least not recently.
Obviously, this won't entirely fix the issue, and it's a complicated subject. You're still gonna see Blight in casual queue and you'll still have to deal with bad teammates in ranked, obviously. "Nobody would bother with ranked" is a valid concern too, though there are potential remedies. Removing pips (or limiting them) in the casual queue, for example, could funnel reward-minded players into the ranked queue. I almost never play ranked in games, though, so I don't know what other games do to encourage people to play ranked. Overwatch, League of Legends, CS:GO, etc. may be good places to look for inspiration?
These are all just ideas. The SBMM updates make it seem as though the game is being taken in a more competitive direction, so I think a queue split could really help a lot of players who enjoy the game casually continue to do so in the years to come.
I'm gonna be entirely honest, making this game force you either into "sweat fest queue" or "get stomped by sweat fest queue players" doesn't sound even remotely fun? And locking a reward track behind sweating out every single match and removing the reward track for playing the game normally sounds even less fun.
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@MalekithHatesSnow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645485#Comment_3645485
Holiday season includes January?
I wouldn't know when their specific end point is, I'm not a BHVR employee. But you're asking why it took a month for them to fix one bug and I told you - it wasn't a month, it was less.
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He was disabled during the holiday season. If you got your hopes up for anything but the infinite spawn bug to be fixed your hope was misguided.
I agree he needs bugfixes but "he was killswitched for an entire month" only sounds bad in a contextless void.
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A fifth entry for a slowdown perk, neat!
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Tell me your favorite Killer to go againts as Survivor. I will then try to play a match with them, 1 killer per each comment. Just for fun mini Challenge haha.
My pick has to be Nemesis!
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It's sided towards whichever group is better equipped to win - be it through loadouts, mindset or skill.
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Hag, thankfully.
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From the last AMA:
We always monitor the difference between survivor groups (SWF and solo) and our current stance is that lack of information is not the crux of the problem, but rather that friends work together by nature and solo survivors don't (as much). -Mike
They don't think it's a problem (or, at least, Mike doesn't.) So to answer "when" - never, probably.
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Add Anti-Camp Bar in EGC.
Killers should work for the kills in EGC.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Can we have an FoV slider that isn't the bare minimum effort? This is the only major quality of life or accessibility feature announced for killers, and it feels like no one cares.
The FoV slider should also be a quality of life feature, and it should go up to 110 horizontal FoV.
I've played so many games with FoV sliders, and compared to all those games, the DBD FoV slider is the absolute saddest FoV range I've ever seen. When BHVR announced the FoV slider, I honestly couldn't imagine they would consider 87 to 103 (horizontal FoV) as a real FoV range.
Alternately, can we get an option to remove the obnoxious floating hands and weapons from the killer screen, unless the killer is trying to aim their M2 power? Part of the reason why the FoV in this game feels so bad, is because killers don't get to see their entire screen because their hands or weapons are blocking the view. Why do they need to be there? I can feel "immersed" in first person viewpoints, without Dredge's rift arms taking up like 20% of my screen. There are so many killer cosmetics I can't use because they block so much of the screen.
"The bare minimum" would be to do nothing, becuase Shadowborn was already increasing FOV.
Instead they've made Shadowborn pseudo-basekit, which is fine. As for cosmetic issues, that's a cosmetic issue, not an FOV issue.
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@Thund3rstruck57 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634651#Comment_3634651
But with the upcoming gen changes to prevent 3-gens, that's kind of a moot point isn't it? It won't be possible (at least not for very long).
We don't know yet - its possible that 3 gen strategists will find a way around an 8 regression event limit, given how confusing the system was when it was presented on PTB its absolutely possible that there are loopholes.
And besides, even if 3 genning was impossible my first point stands - EMPs are a slight inconvenience at best 90% of the time, so they don't really need changing.
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@Thund3rstruck57 said:
EMPs still feel so punishing on Singularity. Every survivor always seems to have one. Sure, that means they're spending some time speeding up the printers and that's free slowdown but EMPs just feel too punishing for that slowdown to feel valuable. The EMPs are just way too prevalent in every match, even after the nerfs. Here are my suggestions:
Make it so each of the 4 printers won't start printing a new EMP until the previous one it produced has been used. This would limit the maximum number available at any given time to 4, instead of the current 8. Also, make it so survivors cannot speed up the printing time anymore. Instead, the printer will stop at 90% (90 seconds). Survivors will then have to manually finalize the print for 10 seconds (current speed up animation) to finish the last 10% of the print and only then will the EMP be retrievable.
Maybe to compensate, you can increase the EMP utility by making it so if a survivor activates an EMP with Singularity in range, it will stun/slow Singularity and kick Singularity out of overclock if it was active (same effect as getting hit with a pallet when in overclock) and for a brief duration (like 10 seconds) disable Singularity's biopod cannon and ability to access biopod cameras.
This should significantly reduce how ubiquitous EMPs are in every match and make Singularity feel much less punishing to play while still giving survivors that tool for critical situations. Thanks for listening.
Just reapply Slipstream, it takes two seconds.
Plus, nerfing EMPs strengthens 3-Gen playstyles on Singularity, and as a Hux main it should be getting weaker, not the other way around.
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@wallas said:
The game has 4 players on one side and just 1 on the other. So what's worth more? satisfy 4 players or just 1?
Of course, on the other hand, the assassin should gain more bloodpoints or another benefit so that there is still interest in playing assassin. perks like iron will and DH suffered meaningless nerfs making the game dependent on just breaking pallet and running, without looping.
You need five people to make a lobby, and the game is, on the whole, more balanced than it has ever been, really.
It's not a matter of making one side suffer to satisfy the other, no matter which side that is, nor should it ever be. Saying one side should suffer but we'll make it up to them with a pittance of bloodpoints is openly admitting that there's a balance issue that needs addressing.
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I mean without more context how would we know, but if I had to guess you probably moved grass, or she brought the addon that gives Killer Instinct, or she caught your breathing and extrapolated where you were, or one of a bunch of other things.
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@VomitMommy said:
Give BP effect of BBQ and WGLF basekit. That would help and probably make both sides happy.
It'd have to give more BP than winning the game, and that's ignoring that BP matters less and less as hours go on and players enter the upper end of MMR where tunnelling is at its most potent.
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The cheating problem is bad enough, we dont need removing all punishments for cheating on top of that.
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I think we should either come up with a game system that does not allow swf's to have the same characters and builds 4 times (2 max) or divide the player base by adding 'casual, tournament and hardcore (no perks no add-ons no items)' game modes to the game.
punishing people for playing with their friends sucks and split gamemodes wouldnt actually fix any of these problems. casual mode would be full of people tryharding for clips, tournament would have constant ruleset disagreements and hardcore would be a fun gimmick that'd die almost immediately because people like their perks.
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@Kubui said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630016#Comment_3630016
Its not that hard. Iron will for swf groups stay as same (75% reduction) and if u play soloq that goes up to 100%... its just a numbers buff
"its just a numbers buff" a numbers buff that then has to be watched to ensure it doesnt break game balance, create two seperate metas for SWF and Solos, and also doesnt accidentally kill SWF entirely by over-nerfing it (in turn killing the game).
It's far more delicate than you make it out to be.
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@Kubui said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628074#Comment_3628074
only a few, not everyone of them.
My point stands though, you're asking the devteam and the players to manage the balance systems of additional iterations of perks when it's enough work balancing the ones we have.
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@Kubui said:
That + perks should have different buffs when playing soloQ
What a nightmare to balance...
You're asking the devs (who are already trying to juggle over a hundred perks for each side) to juggle a second set of 100+ perks that's designed only for 4 man SWF.
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At least you understand it's a hot take.
CoH is mostly fine, maybe a slight numbers buff, but giving the entire team self-care but good isn't worth the nightmare of balancing it
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626674#Comment_3626674
I'd like to quickly address a few of your points here, as someone who experienced this game in 2019. Joined a bit earlier actually: late 2018, during Darkness Among Us. My opinions regarding this game are vastly different than yours: I genuinely believe the game was far better in the past than it is now. No matter the metric used to judge it.
The design philosophy in 2019 wasn't to make everything OP so nothing was, it was to make things fun and overall better for the game. This is mostly restricted to the early 2019, and there are outliers: Freddy's rework that I consider to be the worst change ever implemented into this game, and Mettle of Man on release is also a good example. But overall? Things were good.
DS changed from anti-momentum to anti-tunneling is a very good example. Adjustments were made for Legion, and Nurse lost 5 blinks / Omega Blink add-on combinations. The meta wasn't four slowdowns as we see today, and the maps hadn't been ruined. That doesn't mean everything was perfect, but I would go back to it without a drop of hesitation if I could. There is a reason why many people think 2019 was peak DBD.
I don't like the argument of "rose tint", it has always been a massive pet peeve of mine. Many of us have a very clear memory on everything regarding the old game, both the good stuff and bad.
However, OP states they would like to see most things redone after the reversion. So many of the problems you listed you be addressed following this post suggestion. A full reversion that would keep everything intact is rarely ever suggested here.
The design philosophy in 2019 wasn't to make everything OP so nothing was, it was to make things fun and overall better for the game. This is mostly restricted to the early 2019, and there are outliers: Freddy's rework that I consider to be the worst change ever implemented into this game, and Mettle of Man on release is also a good example. But overall? Things were good.
The implication that the devs decided that they just shouldn't make things fun in 2020 and onwards is very clearly untrue. What game developer would sit down and say "I don't want this to be fun anymore" other than in the case of ultrahard game mods (and arguably even then).
My other main takeaway is that I think we disagree on what OP is saying.
Please revert the game to it's mechanical state in 2019, keeping all killers/ survivors added since then, but redo every single perk, addon, item at the same time so we can get a sense of consistency.
Revert to a mechanic state in 2019 by redoing ever single perk, addon, item at the same time was how I read it - take us back to Red Skill Check Ruin, take us back to Forever Freddy, take us back to the land of pre-nerf Spirit. Otherwise this post delves into the territory of "just keep all the good stuff and discard the bad stuff" which isn't a suggestion.
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Before I begin, I want to make clear that I didn't experience this game in 2019. I joined during Binding of Kin, and whilst it didn't quite grab me immediately, coming back later did and I have since been playing this game very consistently (over 10 hours a week averaged out) for the last 18 months. I also seem to lack the nostalgia many DBD players seem to hold for the game, as I whole-heartedly think the game has never been more balanced (as in, the side more dedicated to win, through experience, loadouts, and mindset, is the side that sees better results).
I also want to quickly discuss your pre-TL;DR paragraph, because it struck me as odd. Your noted evidence for the community changing was not balance discussions, wasn't opinions you see the community hold, it was responses to the way minorities are treated and the changing of a symbol from a noose to a broken bottle. And my question really has to be why those things? Black people, gay people, and people made uncomfortable by nooses aren't the groups that are advocating changing the mechanics of the game in ways you find unhealthy. Hell, the devs that changed those aspects of the game aren't even the balance team. It's, overall, entirely irrelevant to your point about the game's balance philosophy changing over the last four years, and yet you felt it relevant enough to mention.
That aside, I want to discuss 2019 as someone who wasn't here to form memories of it. It appears that, back in 2019, BHVR's goal was "if everything is OP, nothing is" as perk impact seemed to be in general much, much higher then than now, but the issue is that everything wasn't OP. The meta was monstrously stale. Even ignoring BT, which you'd likely want to keep in this turning back of time, everyone had to use DS in another slot because of how potent it was. Beyond that, everyone either ran Dead Hard or Sprint Burst, Iron Will so they were quieter injured than healthy, and then their choice of a small handful of meta perks (albeit Self-Care seemed to be the pick). Nerfing those perks, then, is the logical outcome. Better to bring down a few strong perks than try and bring up every weak one - rather than risking buffs causing power creep ad infinitum, risk nerfs causing a lack of perk impact, which is more easily fixed.
And if we went back to 2019 the new additions would be unhealthy for the game then too. Red skill check ruin during the 3 gen strategy meta (which doesn't appear to be going away with the PTB changes) in a world where Pentimento exists? No thanks. Forever Freddy coming back in a world where Pain Resonance exists? Again, no thanks. There's more - BP BBQ&C coming back, meaning literally everyone runs it, further bolstering the Distortion vs Ultimate Weapon pickrate tug-of-war? Thana being a general action speed penalty again in a world where Skull Merchant exists? I could go on, but at risk of coming for your throne on DBDForums post essays, I won't.
We can't ever truly turn back time, and I don't think it'd even be good if we did - a rose tint is a powerful thing, after all. I still fully believe this game has never been more balanced, even if some perks paid the ultimate price of irrelevancy to get there. Sure, metas come and go, but not like they used to - you don't have to run BT to be able to unhook survivors anymore. You don't have to stand there mindgaming yourself in case the survivor you're looping has Dead Hard anymore. And going back to that wouldn't magically make the game more fun for anyone involved, and it'd possibly alienate a whole bunch of people who like the game we have now.
If that doesn't include you - if you don't find the game fun, I could tell you to maybe try out Civilisations, but it's probably better if we find ways to make it fun for as many people as possible instead. I look forward to your next essay on balance changes if you decide to write one.
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"Killers should not have perks that show survivors aura. They have scratch marks."
Also, destroying every aura read to reveal teammate auras instead would destroy a significant amount of the perk base, meaning the survivor meta especially in SWF will largely shrink and become more stale, especially in a world where Bond, Empathy and Kindred basically already achieve anything youd want from a teammate aura read.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615959#Comment_3615959
A good solution would be to make the survivor go to basement if they want to recover fully and lack the perks to do so, with everyone downed or in a 2 person situation, that way they can't just hide in a hookless corner or boil over on dead dawn saloon and get free recovery
What? No, this would be horrendous.
4 man slug playstyles are now made even stronger by sitting at the entrance to basement and picking survivors as soon as they are about to get to pick themself up, and thats assuming youre on a map with a basement thats feasible to get to within 4 minutes from anywhere on the map (which for large maps with basements in corners it wouldn't be).
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I think that "just add an anti-AFK feature" is a bit of a stretch to cover a valid criticism of removing hook suicides but I'll play along for the sake of this discussion going anywhere.
What's stopping them from throwing every pallet on the map? What's stopping them bodyblocking you in chase? Hell- what's stopping them finding the killer and handing him another free down?
I want to make something abundantly clear - if a player doesnt want to participate, there is nothing that will force them to. I agree hook suicides are a problem, but there is simply not a good solution to it happening - removing the possibility entirely creates other problems that need solving instead of just leaving one problem in the game until some genius finds a solution,