jonifire
jonifire
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645411#Comment_3645411
Iri. Restricts you to 2 dashes now. Yellow. Removes a dash. but less cooldown aka 1 dash.
That’s dumb
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Why does he have only one?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
So Notes for Behavior to still look at…
*Tape insertion is too quick.
*Addons still need help. (We mentioned which in recent threads.)
*Tv Auras are a bit much. Survivors have static around TVs they don’t need too visuals. VCR is useless due to this.
*QOL - Tv spawns are funky. Either perfect spawns or just way off.
*Super Important - Lullaby should be adjusted. Huntress sure. Sadako no. Visual Heart Beat kills her stealth.
I think these are the main points.
They should also test how passive condemned gain from holding tapes impacts her gameplay (maybe next ptb)
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@Princesse_nico said:
PLS bring back 2sec TV interaction and remove TVS auras for survivors!
Agree and please improve her more🙂
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
They go live today along with some addon changes for Blight and Hillbilly.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/432-7-5-1-bugfix-patch
Thx
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@OrangeBear said:
The patch is out and shockingly bloody fingernails is not adjusted. This means that using bloody fingernails now allows you to get 2 -> 3 seconds of 6.9m/s speed after exiting a tv, from 1.5 -> 2.25 seconds.
That’s good. I don‘t think they need to. Same goes for reikos watch, it should go back to 50% or 33% at least or they buff her invisibility a bit more and leave it with 25%.
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@ChaosWam said:
I had some fun moments with Sadako, no lullaby baybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Does she really have no lullaby? That would be great.
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@Yoshirama said:
Why people want to kill the few good survivor perks?
Adrenaline is fine, it shouldn’t wake you up with Freddy, tho
but you’re playing with 3 perks the whole match and you’re not guaranteed to reach endgame, unlike endgame killer perks. There’s a lot of hard tunneling and noed being in almost every match. So if you want to touch Adrenaline, then touch other killer endgame perks too
If they touch Adrenalin they should also nerf pain res and pop, so that you get easier to endgame.
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The killers shouldn‘t see the gen auras. You always can‘t get close to any loop, because they appear out of nowhere.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
They were. Tape insertion has always been independent of the TV’s powered status. They can’t retrieve a Tape from a powered TV though.
Thanks
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Could you make her invisibility also work when vaulting a window please.
I tested it and everytime when I‘m invisible and start vaulting, I get visible.
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@Chiky said:
new oreo is just old oreo
Not exactly she was different. In her OG Version you had your TVs always available, because survivors didn‘t turn them off (shure long cooldowns) and her tapes gave passive condemned. TV auras weren‘t a thing. The addons were better.
She didn‘t need to be reworked only some buffs.
That doesn‘t mean that I don‘t like the buffs she got, I only want her old mechanics back.
Also no form of global condemned, which allowed her to track people with it.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643356#Comment_3643356
My understanding is that Reiko's Watch is like the original Reiko's Watch again. Rather than 50%, they made the add-on 25% and then took the other 25% and made it basekit. So if anything the add-on is better since we got an important basekit effect. Someone can correct me if I am wrong though.
Yes and they should buff it more or at least leave the addon stronger to give us the ability to get higher than 1,5s. I think she should be less long visible that would be great.
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@UndeddJester said:
This is good, she is still on the weaker side I think, but it at least looks like her power is in a decent spot and settled now on how its gonna work.
Maybe after some monitoring she gets some more buffs in line with a lot of suggestions here.
1s action I think needs to go.
I guess the condemn cap is fine, they don't want it possible for a survivor to be permanently locked in with condemn, so fair enough. (though tbf... if they are max condemn... why would you lock them in other than for LoLs/pip farming).
I dont think removing nearby TV auras will make her much stronger tbh. The static affecting you is already clue enough and the TVs aren't hard to find/predict. I'd prefer them removed mostly because it just makes Sadako a little spookier, as you're not 100% sure exactly where she might pop out, especially in chase... but gameplay wise I don't think it makes a substantial enough difference really to care vs. competent survivors.
Hooking someone with full stacks, instead of moriing someone, could actually backfire and I think it would be cool.
Actually removing tv auras would be huge, you are right that it still has enough counterplay, but you could at least try to go for tps in chases again.
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@Skitten56 said:
I like the Manifest and Projection buffs. I think these will increase her chase power a bit and provide a nice QoL increase to those playing her.
The condemn cooldown being removed is good if they don't plan to address her counterplay issues (which seems to be the case sadly). If BHVR did address these issues such as the TV auras and the 1s tape insert speeds, I would be okay with them keeping the cooldown.
Condemn Lock
I personally think they needed to make condemn lock in at 4 stacks to reward good condemn play. Especially given how much easier it is to remove and counter in this version.
If they don't make it 4 stacks I fear many Onryo players will just slug since hooking may not be worth it. At 3 stacks Onryo basically has to play a 3 hooks game while also spending extra time to build condemn, this could make condemn worse than traditional hooking for some and result in it just being a slowdown mechanic. Why should an Onryo player who wants to focus on condemn hook if hooking doesn't result in any advantages?
At 4 stacks however, there is an incentive to hook over slugging. A Onryo can lock in enough stacks to make the effort to build condemn and the effort to spend time picking up a survivor and hooking them worth it. This is critical if BHVR wants to avoid Onryo players slugging.
If they address the issues with her strong counterplay like TV auras and tape insert speeds, 3 stacks is perfectly fine, but without these changes though it should really be at 4 stacks.
I agree. Instead of making condemned go completely on cooldown, they should make that only the one tv applies condemned when condemned would be on cooldown. Actually they should test if passive condemned on tapes effects her in a negative way, when not they should bring it back. Condemned lock in shouldn‘t have a limit I want to lock in full stacks instead of moriing someone.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642863#Comment_3642863
I like your suggestion. If we ever were to get original Sadako back, I'd want them to do something similar to your idea.
Thanks 🙏. We will see whether they do more with her soon and maybe her new version will be fine?
But I can see her beeing reworked again, because she might only be a noob stomper and looses to every good survivor.
Hopefully they change Tv auras, addons, the lullaby, tapes and buff her invisibility a bit more. That‘s all I want.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643301#Comment_3643301
over and over messes up matchmaking there's a problem.
Yeah, we need more good killers...
Agree we need more good and fun killers
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Could you make reikos watch 50% again please and make her time she is visible shorter or increase the frequency she is invisible.
Maybe even make her longer invisible like 1,5s and then leave reikos watch with 25%.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643109#Comment_3643109
I have to disagree with Rickety Pinwheel. Oblivious can be strong on her since the VTR gives her away when demanifested. Oblivious is actually stronger on her than other killers in my opinion, since survivors expect to have the VTR give you away when trying to sneak up on them. Therefore you can stay manifested and surprise them sometimes easier than if you tried to use her actual stealth.
I know I mentioned this on the other thread but I'll restate it here for anyone new. The original Iri-tape would be perfectly fine to add back into the game. However I don't expect BHVR to do this, so I am trying to provide constructive feedback on their current Iri-tape and how to make it useful and balanced as an add-on.
The TV auras are a big issue that BHVR must address. Even a compromise fix like hiding auras to survivors holding tapes would go a long way to solving most of the issues with her right now.
Rickets pinwheel should at least hide her lullaby and have a bigger range. It‘s a bit a stupid concept.
In my opinion the iri tape is just a failed concept. As base kit no tv cooldowns cool, but it’s just a too big nerf to her. It would be great as a grey addon or anything besides iri as one of those bloodpoint addons.
I think hiding the tv auras when holding a tape won‘t solve anything, but who knows.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643230#Comment_3643230
If they weren't buffing other aspects of her kit I'd agree, however clearly they want to make her chase potential better and honestly I like that direction better than focusing on condemn
Hopefully there comes more. I think her invisibility should be buffed even more or reikos watch should get 50% bonus back.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643204#Comment_3643204
I don't think there should be a cap on the condemn lock in at all. If you can't max it out before the second hook, it loses a lot of its utility. Sure, you can still get there without the lock in, but it would really add some urgency to survivors getting rid of those stacks.
Yes it would be so cool to lock a survivor with full stacks. I would always do that instead of moriing them.
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@aprilghost_yt said:
@radiantHero23 @Skitten56 @MechWarrior3
(and everyone here lol)
I don't know if any of you saw Peanits' comment on the discord. I'm sure they'll announce it here soon as well. But I think many of us will be rejoicing :)
I still hope they do a bit more like adjusting addons, the tv auras and tapes to have a bit of a downside.
Overall good changes!
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@Peanits said:
I can confirm that these are real!
Can you please change the way the TV auras work; it makes her teleport in chase and to approach survivors really bad. Everyone just preruns when the aura disappears.
I still wish we get her OG version with passive condemned back and some of the old addons, but this will bring her in a good spot.
Thank you and please change the auras. 👍
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I don‘t know how you see it, but her new version has the same problems as the first rework. Either you stomp people that don‘t know how to play against her or she is useless against good survivors.
Therefore in my opinion they should go back to her first version with buffs. She had better mobility back then even with long cooldowns and you could decide which way you want her to play (condemned or mobility). Overall she was more fun, not only reliant on condemned and fairer.
Her new version has way too much counterplay, which won‘t help if people ignore her power.
They should make her all tv condemned an addon in my opinion.
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The problem with Rickety pinwheel is that oblivious is useless on her, they should completely rework it or make the range bigger and make that the lullaby isn‘t shown.
Sea soaked cloth is actually useful, but the range should be increased.
Iri tape: Cool idea, yes, but old iri tape did everything what it does better, so please give it us back!
The Tv auras are in general a big issue like you and me already mentioned, it makes her already weak TVs in chases and approaches weak/useless.
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@jasonq500 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642945#Comment_3642945
If the devs really want to give her a cooldown every teleport then she should at least allow her to condemn to the tv she teleported at the very least, that’s just hoping though
Completely agree 💯
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Nobody will play this perk like that. The only useful thing is the healing and why should a perk, which doesn’t even activate every round be nerfed. It‘s fine as it is, except of the freddy wake up part. I also have a lot of games where this perk puts me in a disadvantage, because it gives me exhaustion even when I‘m not even chased and when I wasn‘t even injured before.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Overview
So as we all know, Onryō got another set of changes with the release of 7.5.0 and to say they weren't well received would be an understatement. I was unfortunately too busy during the 7.5.0 PTB to write up my own thoughts here on the forums, but was satisfied with the feedback being given by other Onryō players. Mostly, that she was much more fun and healthy, albeit slightly weak.
I think it's safe to say most of us expected her to hit the live servers either relatively untouched or with some buffs/QoL adjustments -- certainly not with the hefty nerfs she ended up getting.
I've been playing the new Onryō for the past few days and wanted to share my thoughts. I'm certain much of this will echo what has already been said by other Onryō players so forgive me if I sound like a broken record.
or would a broken VHS tape be a more appropriate simile?I'll start by going through the 7.5.0 patch notes and commenting on the changes.
7.5.0 Changes
While Demanifested:
- The Onryo can gain Bloodlust as usual.
- The Onryo can enter chases as usual.
When Demanifesting:
- Bloodlust is no longer lost.
Good changes. They're nothing too drastic but they help her to use her power in chase a little more easily.
Increase Demanifested state invisibility duration from 1 to 1.2 seconds.
Great change. Making Reiko's Watch (partially) basekit is something that's been asked for for a long time, and means she actually has a semblance of a chase power without needing add-ons. Obviously Demanifestation mindgames are sort of gimmicky and don't work at a lot of loops, but they're fun and that's what's important.
Teleport cooldown from previous update removed.
Glad to see this go. Onryō's ability to move around the map quickly was one of the things that was so appealing about her original power. Having a cooldown felt clunky, especially considering her teleports can be denied by survivors anyways. It's a massive shame this change is effectively undone by the introduction of another cooldown.
Condemned gained from teleports increased to 1 full stack.
Another positive change. Having to keep track of Condemned gain in 0.75 increments was a little confusing for both roles.
New Power Meter:
- Resets on teleport and charges automatically afterwards (10 seconds).
- If the power meter is at 98% or more when teleporting, the teleport applies Condemned to Survivors within 16 meters of the TV where The Onryo projected or any other powered TV.
- If the power meter is <98%, no Condemned is applied.
I'll start by saying I'm thrilled that local Condemned has returned. Global Condemned gain removed a lot of skill expression from Onryō. You no longer needed to be judicious in where you teleported and it felt very cheap. Now that local Condemned is back, you're incentivised to corral survivors into your TVs and not just mindlessly teleport. You can also use projection as a tracking tool again. If you teleport and see someone gain a stack, you know they're within 16 m of one of your powered TVs and you can use other clues to deduce their location. I like it.
Unfortunately the rest of this change is just bad. Adding a new cooldown defeats the point of removing the previous one. While you can still use Projection as a map traversal tool during this time, it's sort of pointless as you're missing out on applying your slowdown on the survivors. And as a killer with a weak (almost nonexistant) chase power, you really do need the slowdown from Condemned.
Not to mention the justification for this change in the Developer Update is nonesensical:
[...] crafty Onryō players discovered that they could intentionally teleport to the wrong TVs first in order to spread more than one stack of Condemned to Survivors near/heading towards a powered one. Clever!
Given that survivors already had plenty of counterplay to Onryō on the PTB, and the developers themselves admit that this is a clever use of her power, I can't understand why they decided to nerf her ability to spread Condemned like this. Surely tactical, thought-out gameplay is what we should be promoting? This change punishes Onryō for simply using her power, which doesn't feel good to play with. Not to mention it disincentivises survivors from engaging with her counterplay. The only way survivors would be racking up Condemned from this is if they're blithely sitting in range of a powered TV, which they should never because:
- TVs are now highlighted to survivors through walls.
- TVs now have a visual indicator that you're in range to be Condemned.
- TVs give give off sound cues when powered and a survivor is in range to be Condemned.
- Interacting with Tapes has been Onryō's counterplay for the last half a year.
- And most importantly, TVs can now be disabled with a very, very short animation and no consequences for the survivor!
I'm sorry but to me this just feels like the developers have gone: "(Some) survivors didn't want to engage in her counterplay so we just decided to to it for them and slap Onryō with a self-inflicted cooldown." Maybe I'm being too harsh but I just don't understand this change at all.
Powered TVs:
- Now have VFX showing range at all times (when powered).
- Are revealed to Survivors within 16 meters.
I actually like the staticky VFX that make it clear when survivors are in Condemned range. It signposts to survivors when they're at risk, allowing them to make calculated decisions about where to run to during a chase, where to heal etc., and also makes it easier for players to learn distances. I also thought the static lines were criminally underutilised. Prior to 7.5.0, you'd only see them if an Onryō was running Sea-Soaked Cloth or Rickety Pinwheel. And given how lacklustre those two add-ons are, you'd never get to see it and it's such a cool effect. A nice addition!
As for the TV auras, I think it's a little too much. TVs follow predictable spawns (almost always close to a generator), survivors can see the range in which they can get Condemned, and survivors hear the noises given off by TVs. There's plenty of information there for survivors to be able to locate TVs. Highlighting their precise location gives survivors too much information in a chase. If you Project, they now know exactly where you're coming from. It lessens The Onryō's already-limited ability to ambush survivors with Projection.
Hooking a Survivor locks in up to 2 stacks of Condemned (applies for each hook action). These stacks become impossible to remove.
This is probably the worst change. Condemned lock-in on the PTB was perfect. It was such a healthy change and it finally gave Onryō an incentive to hook survivors. We finally could put an end to long, drawn out matches spent bleeding out on the floor and then you nerfed the mechanic and it's the optimal strategy again...
I thought Condemned lock-in was a very engaging mechanic that led to interesting gameplay as a survivor. It made Condemned an actual threat, forcing you to carefully decision make around it. Survivors could either ignore their Condemned to focus on their objectives at the risk of being found and the stacks getting locked in, or they could manage their Condemned -- slowing their objectives a little but guaranteeing their safety. It felt fun and high stakes on the PTB.
Capping the lock-in -- especially at such a low number -- makes the mechanic pointless. Two stacks is not worth confirming on a survivor. And, again, it just feels overkill given she already had adequate counterplay. If you disable TVs (and transport a Tape once or twice) you're never going to reach a threatening level of Condemned in the first place.
I think what bothers me most about the change is the justification for it:
[locking in several stacks] indirectly encouraged the Killer to seek out and chase the same Survivor after they were unhooked (or “tunnelling” for short).
The lock-in mechanic actually discouraged tunnelling:
- Locking in stacks on a survivor meant that they'd be forced to go on Tape runs more frequently, meaning less time spent on objectives. This rewarded The Onryō with some slowdown for successfully spreading Condemned to a survivor, downing them, and then hooking them.
- For the rest of the match that survivor is now less efficient than their teammates at completing objectives as they have to manage their Condemned more often.
- Naturally you'd want to go and bother their teammates, who can still work at full efficiency, forcing the inefficient survivor to do more of the work and thus slowing the match down.
Don't get me wrong, you absolutely could try and tunnel off hook, but then you're self-sabotaging your own slowdown. It's similar to Pig. You could tunnel the survivor who has a Trap on their head to guarantee a kill. But in doing so, you're wasting time chasing a person who isn't in a position to contribute to objectives -- allowing their teammates to do generators uncontested. I think people would quickly realise that they'd get more value from spreading pressure rather than focusing it on one survivor.
Instead, the capped lock-in encourages tunnelling:
- If a survivor has anything greater than 2 stacks when hooked, only two of them are now made permanent. The remaining stacks can be removed. The optimal strategy is now to bother them after being unhooked in order to prevent them removing the additional stacks. If you don't tunnel, the stacks will quickly be removed and the time you spent spreading them is wasted.
- Tapes no longer grant protection from gaining Condemned while holding them.
- Survivors no longer gain Condemned if hit while holding a Tape.
- Survivors no longer lose their Tape when attacked.
These are all fine.
Survivors must bring their Tape to the furthest TV.
- Highlighted in yellow.
Great change. This nicely standardises the amount of slowdown The Onryō gets per Tape run and makes her slowdown more consistent. Attentive Onryō players can now also deduce where survivors will likely be heading based upon where they retrieved their Tapes.
Retrieving a Tape now takes 1 second (was 2).
Inserting a Tape in a TV now takes 1 second (was 2).
This allows survivors to insert a Tape during the killer's successful attack cooldown, even with full stacks of STBFL. In my opinion, survivors who retrieve a Tape and transport it to their target TV should be rewarded for it -- they're engaging in the correct counterplay. You still have adequate time to interrupt them before they get to their target TV (especially since you can deduce which TV it is and plan ahead). But once they're already there, they should be able to insert the Tape.
I think it's also important to note that if they do insert a Tape right in front of you, they're effectively throwing the chase and will almost certainly go down afterwards. To me, a down in exchange for removing 3 stacks is a fair trade-off.
With that being said, the number didn't need to be lowered that much. With the recent STBFL nerf, the shortest successful attack cooldown is ~1.8 s so anything shorter than that allows the survivors time to insert their Tape. Halving the time was overkill and makes the animations look janky. 1.5 seconds seems like a good middle ground to me.
Add-on Pass
By this point, Onryō has already had two add-on passes but neither have really addressed the issues with her add-ons. Some of them are very lacklustre, especially her rarer ones. I'll go through and give my thoughts on each:
- Cabin Sign, Mother's Mirror, and Old Newspaper: These are okay little number buffs to her kit. Perfectly reasonable for common add-ons in my opinion.
- Videotape Copy: This one is great. Increasing Condemned range by +2 metres is immensely helpful and makes TVs that spawn in awkward places more useful. The one note I have for this add-on is that it's flavour text doesn't match its effects anymore. Previously it was a meme add-on that lessened the amount of Condemned Projection would inflict and so the add-on states that it "dampens the desire for revenge". Now it does the opposite so I propose that the text be updated to something along the lines of "A copy of the deadly videotape imprinted upon by Sadako. Serves as a means to spread her curse."
- Clump of Hair: A very underwhelming add-on. I like what it's trying to do but it's way too conservative. I think it could be decent with a number buff:
Number change: Reduced the threshold for full invisibility while Demanifested to -8 m (was -4 m).
- Reiko's Watch: Good add-on -- makes Demanifesting during chase a more viable option.
- Sea-Soaked Cloth: The concept is neat, but the execution isn't quite there. The area of effect is small and it lasts a very short amount of time. Given that both yourself and the survivors can disable your TVs throughout a match, I think it's okay to up the AoE:
Reworked: Survivors within Condemned range of a powered TV suffer from the Blindess status effect. This effect lingers for 7 seconds after turning off a TV or moving out of range.
- With this the add-on would also synergise nicely with Videotape Copy, allowing you to extend the area of effect by an additional 2 m.
- Well Stone: Fine. Essentially just a better version of Cabin Sign.
- Yoichi's Fishing Net: Having two Blindness add-ons is unnecessary. This add-on needs a new effect:
Reworked: Decreases the time taken to Manifest by 10%.
- Bloody Fingernails: Probably my favourite add-on. Zooming around is fun :D
- Mother's Comb: This is a great add-on. It allows you to more efficiently manage your TVs as well as keep tabs on survivor movements.
- Rickety Pinwheel: Needs its AoE upped and to give a more stronger Status Effect. Oblivious doesn't work well for Onryō because of her Lullaby and also provides no value in a chase.
Reworked: Survivors within Condemned range of a powered TV suffer from the Exhausted status effect. This effect lingers for 7 seconds after turning off a TV or moving out of range.
- Ring Drawing: Great that it now encourages and rewards hooking (rather than slugging). Although it seems to be bugged at the moment and is still granting its old effects in addition to its new ones - needs looking into.
- Well Water: Easily one of her worst add-ons. It's almost impossible to get value from Onryō's Undetectable, even with this add-on. Her Lullaby is too overbearing for this to be useful. On that note, I'm not even sure why Onryō even has a Lullaby. She's an M1 killer -- she can't deal damage from afar like Trickster or Huntress can. Do survivors really need the early warning that she's near? I think this add-on should be reworked completely:
Reworked: Survivors hear the Lullaby map-wide while The Onryō is Demanifested.
- This still lets survivors know that they need to keep an eye out, but doesn't give away her exact location -- allowing for stealthier plays. It would also pair nicely with the buffed Clump of Hair to make Onryō a decent stealth killer.
- Personally, I'd scrap the Lullaby altogether but I don't see the developers doing that so this suggeation seems like a more realistic option.
- Distorted Photo: This isn't a bad add-on, it's just very underpowered for its rarity. An easy upgrade would be to make it work with Projection to give you more chances to actually use it in a match:
Reworked: Survivors who witness a Manifestation by any means from within 16 meters scream and reveal their auras for 4 seconds.
- Tape Editing Deck: Not an add-on I ever run but it does have its uses. Preventing survivors from using Toolboxes straight in the early game can be pretty significant. I don't think it particularly needs any changes.
- Telephone: This add-on is just awful. The Hindered penalty is barely noticeable and getting it to activate is impractical given how close you have to be to the survivor. If my maths is correct, this add-on causes the survivor to lose 36 cm of distance. That's close to Licker's Tongue level of bad. I'd be hesitant to up the Hindered because these things can quickly get out of hand, but upping the range and making it work with Projection seems reasonable:
Reworked: Manifestating by any means inflicts survivors within 16 m with -3% Hindered for 3 seconds.
- With that change it could pair nicely with Bloody Fingernails to get hits after Projecting.
- VCR: Honestly this is kind of a meme effect. It's only useful for tricking survivors into activating Dead Man's Switch by letting go of their generators. It's fun to use though so I don't mind it.
- Iridescent Videotape: This is far too weak for an ultra rare. No longer being able to apply Condemned is enough of a downside, it doesn't need the added penalty of increased TV cooldowns too. I love when ultra rare add-ons do something creative with the power so the concept is good, but it definitely doesn't need two drawbacks.
Reworked: Projection no longer turns off TVs, but does not apply any Condemned.
- Remote Control: This one is in a good spot.
Fixing the Problems
The developers have acknowledged the dissatisifcation with the 7.5.0 Onryō changes and are planning some further updates. Personally, I think the best thing to do is just revert her to the PTB version and go from there.
The general consensus seemed to be that her PTB version was almost perfect. A little weak. But otherwise fun and healthy, which is all the really matters to me. I'm not bothered about her being an S tier killer, I just want to enjoy playing as and against her -- which I did on the PTB. Her live version feels undertuned and clunky in comparison.
This was an outrageously long post, oops.I agree with most what you said, except of the addons. For example I want old Reikos watch, old iri tape (first one), old ring drawing and old yoichis fishing net back.
I also have the same opinion as @MechWarrior3, that I want the old OG Sadako back. I made some suggestions how I would buff her OG version if you want to read it -> https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/404251/old-or-new-sadako#latest
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@Khastrx said:
Boons in general need some dev attention, but Illumination is one of the most underwhelming, more so than Dark Theory. The new boon could at least offer a bonus to repair, cleanse, and chest opening speeds for any objects highlighted within it's range, thinking 4% maybe. Just reading the aura alone is pretty garbage, when things like Deja Vu or Detective's Hunch exist.
I think they should at least make the boon/repair/ opening chest speed 10%-15% for it to be worth.
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I really hope you make her all tv condemned a purple addon and change her base power to her first version with all of the buffs you gave her and make it like I suggested with the proximity change.
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@IDontWannaDie said:
Listen up. I played 3 days of PTB I plyed for around 4 to 5 games a day. No Killer games because I couldnt be bothered to wait 20 Minutes for one Game. Not once... Not a single time did i queue into an Onryo. She was free for PTB and i might have just been unlucky or very few people bothered to try her.
Now from what I heard she was actually really nice/improved ... (improved does not mean overpowered or unbalanced) to play as or against. Now I also read lots of comments saying that after the nerf she is just plain, weak, unfun and has to tunnel. Why make a Killer ,the few people that met her or played her described as fun, diffrent then when people actually enjoyed them.
I think that up to 3 condemned stacks should stick after a hook. Every Killer has their own counterplay and survivours have to adapt to the killer. If you dont cleanse your condemned you are not allowed to cry over it sticking. 2 (as pointed out by others) is a little to little. And encourages tunneling
Someone said in a diffrent post that condemned should be applied by proximity to Tv I agree that would make the condemning easier and more risky for survivours. I belive it was along the lines of 3 meters proximity gives two stacks 3 to 16 gives one stack and 16 to 24 gives half a stack. That would mean survivours also have to time when to get rid of their tape because they might just run into an onryo and get more stacks than they bargained for. As the tape retrieving and inserting speed is buffed this shouldnt make to big a problem.
But honestly why even ask for opinions Bhvr, your not gonna change anything or if you do it'll probably be in two years
I‘m happy you liked my idea🙂. I really hope they make her condemned based around the proximity to one Tv📺 .
Right now you either stomp people or have 0 chances, depends how good the survivors are.
I suggested (based around her OG versions concept): 0,5 stacks (20-16m); 1stack (16-10m) and 2stacks (10-0m), but all those numbers could be adjusted. Like you already mentioned in the other post, it should be a higher range for the half stack, maybe 16-24/28m.
This change would also make her more skillful and survivors wouldn‘t always turn off all TVs around them anymore, which hinders her mobility.
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@IDontWannaDie said:
I cant say I really remember OG version... I do like the way you want her Tp to work with the condemend stacks increasing for proximity to tv. I do belive Tvs should have a little offline time after she Tps, though maybe the time can/should be shortened. She shouldnt be allowed to mindlessly tp so i think its fair that on hook two stacks get locked in... idk tho if they nerfed that as well.
I didnt see any Sadako Players in my 3 days of PTB which was unbelivably sad in my opinion and then they nerfed the PTB buff so i dont expect any more players taking on sadako. I cant say about the invisibility as i only ever use demanifestation to Tp. (Not that great with Mind Games)
I don't think that universal condemned was bad and i liked that if you hit a survivor with a tape their condemned increased. If a change in favour of your Idea would be made I'd say maybe increase the Range for the half stack a little. If she would get no cool down for tping then what you suggested would be great (with the maybe even a smaller range for condemned). 2 stacks should be locked on hook though. And after a Tp a Tv should be off for at least a few seconds. In my opinion
But as far as I know DbD devs dont give a fart about what community thinks or wants. :)
Maybe they should have a short offline timer, so people don‘t just tp thousand times at the same loop.
The lock in got nerfed to only lock in 2 stacks (it were all stacks you had in the ptb) in my opinion this feature is cool, but 2stacks isn‘t enough to be relevant.
Her demanifest is really difficult to use as mindgame tool. I‘m almost always in it, but more for the harder tracking part. I think they could make it a really good mindgame power, but right now it’s too difficult too use it that way.
I can‘t tell how much she is played right now, because I mostly play killer, but she was already picked less after the last rework. I saw the OG Sadako as I played more survivor every few days and after her rework maybe once a week or even less.
I have mixed feelings about the old global condemned. On the one side applying condemned was really easy/when playing survivor it was extremely annoying and on the other side like mentioned above, I couldn‘t play her like I wanted anymore. The only viable way was condemned. Now her all Tv condemned is cool, but it brings the same problems and she is more just a noob stomper. Either you play against very good survivors, that you can‘t condemned or you stomp everyone. The first version was great in my opinion, because the passive condemned from tapes stopped people touching her Tvs, so you could always teleport and applying condemned wasn‘t hindered by any form of counterplay, but it also was more difficult and needed skill.
I‘m all for improving this idea, maybe 24-28m would be better for 0,5 stacks.
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They should give it the cooldown in between the current missed attack and the one in the first week..
I stopped playing him, because it’s just a turret and cooldown simulator.
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I still think my idea for anti three gen is the fairest.
After enough regression events the gens need less and less time to repair (like with brand new part) until it reaches a maxed point (60s).
This would allow gen perks to work without a limit and it would make breaking a 3 gen a lot easier and still allow to defend them.
They could also make that it only triggers after a certain time or something and if this isn‘t enough, then they could also make that the gen blocks after more regression or some time.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641615#Comment_3641615
100%! That’s what brought me over to this game. I have over 5000 hours in that game. Played it since launch. I mained Palpatine and Yoda both maxes prior and after changes.
EA did that game so dirty, despite its success!
I‘ve got the Platin trophie and I‘ve got to the point, where I played always the worst hero’s in Hero showdown and I even won with the little droid almost always.
They should make a battle pass and continue the game or make a third one.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
It used to be the case that killers had different numbers of addons of different rarities. Although it was standardised years ago so now everyone has the same number and proportion of each rarity.
A bit sad, I can imagine so many cool addons for some killers, but sadly there is a max amount of addons.
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@GeneralV said:
That used to be a thing.
Huntress only had one Iri, Hillbilly and Bubba had none, and as a matter of the fact the two of them shared add-ons (which was actually pretty cool, chainsaw bros).
Having only one iri would be frustrating for me, but they shouldn’t only add useless addons, so that killers have the same amount of addons and if they have many good ideas for addons they should not be limited by an addon cap.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641461#Comment_3641461
I agree, in one 1.0 version it definitely requires skill to be able to get any sort of condemn, you had to know where you were teleporting you had to be precise with it, and you had to be consistent.
The closest version of that would be the version from PTB before nerfs, even then, that version was still a little on the weak side. They were further quality of life changes they could make.
The expression of skill was in 1.0, we lost that skill in 2.0 and 3.0 after the developers made changes. Furthermore, she is not unable, but she is extremely untuned and water down.
I have faith in these developers. I know some have their worries and hesitations, and I understand that they’ve been in this journey longer than I have, but I have to have faith.
I lost my faith with EA Dice 🤣🤣 But I want to try and keep it here with behavior, and give them the benefit of the doubt ❤️
I hate EA for shutting down Star Wars battlefront 2. It was the best game I‘ve ever played.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I liked the first rework, however sadly it encouraged no chasing and mindless spamming. A few QoL changes perhaps were needed.
Therefore I wanted the old version back and buffed in both ways.Then people could decide how they want to play and condemned wouldn‘t be the only viable way like in her rework.
I actually got people condemned every 5th game (before the first rework) and I didn’t play for condemned, I just tped very much. That means people, who actually went for condemned, should have gotten very good results and with these buffs it wouldn‘t be too difficult.
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I made a poll about old and new Sadako. I want to know how many would be interested in my idea.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/404251/old-or-new-sadako#latest
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@Devil_hit11 said:
1) Chase:
-Manifesting charge time movement speed modifer increased from 0.80(80%) to 1(100%) // This increases her movement speed when decloaking from 92% to 115%.
-Passive Invisibility during Demanifiest now grants a 30% haste bonus when invisible. // Default invisibility lasts 1.2 seconds as of PTB.
-Demanifesting Flicker duration increased from 0.75 second to 1 second.
-Lingering Flicker Duration state reduced from 4 second to 3 seconds.
-Onryo lunge speed lunge modifier increased by 60%. // Lunge movement speed during Flicker duration will be 275%
2) Condemn:
New Ability: Spectral strike: After Demanifesting, Survivors hit by Onryo are inflicted by 1.5 condemn stacks during Lingering Flicker Invisibility duration(Lasts 3 second by default).
3) TV:
-Teleporting to a television no longer increases survivors condemn stacks.
-TV teleportation now activates Demanifestation Flicker Duration. // Lasts 3 seconds by default
4) Tapes:
-Survivors picking up a tape when fully condemned remove 1 condemn stack.
-Inserting a tape into the television no longer reduces condemn stacks by 3.
-Survivors despositing a tape into a television now gain 3 condemn shield stacks hightlighted in blue.
-Hitting the survivor with Spectral Strike will break the condemn tape.
Add-on change:
Iridescent videotape:
-Projected Television now inflict 1 stack of condemn within 16 meters of a survivor.
-Survivors Condemn stacks gained by Spectral Strike reduced by 66%[Reduces condemn stack build-up from 1.5 ->0.5]
Ring Drawing:
Tapes broken by Spectral Strike Increase condemn build up by 0.5.
Videotape Copy:
TV's turned off by the survivor are turned off for 15 seconds less.
Mother's Mirror:
-Increases the duration of your intermittent Invisibility after Manifesting by +3 seconds.
Old Newspaper:
-Increases the duration of your full Invisibility after Manifesting by +15%.
Cabin Sign:
-After Manifesting, reduces the visibility window duration by 0.1 seconds(Duration reduced from 0.5 ->0.4 seconds) // This improves flicker invisibility
Well Stone:
-Reduces the time it takes for TVs to turn back on after Projection by 11 seconds. //Was 7 seconds
I can only agree with @MechWarrior3 that I don‘t want a new version of her. I always wanted her OG version with buffs back. I also think these change make it a bit too complicated, especially with all the versions we had.
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I actually think they should remove her lullaby from the visual heart beat, because I didn‘t even know she had one before I activated it.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639158#Comment_3639158
I actually went against a Sadako recently and found out how crazy it is you can run around and shut off TVs the entire time with a tape, get rid of your stacks, and repeat. I lost the match because 2 other survivors were trying to bully her with flashlights, getting slugged and wasted all the pallets instead of doing generators. It's still kinda crazy I alone can keep most TVs off if I'm uninterrupted and even if I am, I take a hit and go directly to my target TV and cleanse 4 stacks. I can't even blame her for slugging at that point, and she at least hooked when survivors weren't trying to blind.
Something else crazy about all this? I'm recently being namedropped in the Steam Discussions as some kind of killer defender and want 'all killers to be overpowered' including Blight and Billy for saying to take tapes during the 2.0 Sadako at the time and trying to help explain how to mitigate her, and asking why survivors still don't do it now despite how simpler it is. Had to create a support ticket because I asked if he was trolling and the response got deleted while his namedrop is still up.
Yep it’s just sad, especially when you like the teleport part of her power.
The thing is saying something about balance and so on will always make people put you in one group. I personally think they should finally bring the weaker killers in line, so that they can buff survivor again, my survivor games are always a miserable experience, most perks and map reworks are just terrible. In my world fun comes from strong/cool stuff/ features, that are fun and balancing often makes things only worse. I don‘t say problematic things shouldn‘t be changed, but what behavior does with cool perks is always making them die/useless.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641039#Comment_3641039
I agree with your post, but just to be clear on the safe side, we were never able, or had the ability to see how many stacks of survivor has clearly like the survivor can on their hud.
well, I do think it would be incredibly useful, it was never a thing. The killer should be able to have more Intel about their power, though in my humble opinion. I know they do this to help prevent tunneling but if you’re going to tunnel you’re gonna tunnel that’s not gonna stop it.
They should make that the white color turns more and more into red the more stacks you have.
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@anarchy753 said:
The thing with the recent nerfs is that they're clearly trying to make condemned the same as moris. With how hard it is to apply, but it gets locked on hook, they only want people getting a condemn kill if the survivor is dead on hook.
The failure comes from the fact that the stall condemn is MEANT to bring is the bulk of the value of her power. With how unthreatening it is, and how the only real risk is you might not be able to trigger a perk like DS when you're dead on hook anyway, who REALLY cares if you get morid on death hook? So all the parts of her power meant to keep survivors busy to balance how weak she is in chases just don't work, so she's just a weak killer with a gimmick.
They need to find the balance point where condemned is threatening enough to force you to interact with it, but not so passively threatening that players who haven't even seen the killer are able to be condemn killed on first down.
And therein lies the problem. BHVR doesn't tweak and adjust and see if things move in the right direction. They buff and nerf 50 things at once, it wildly changes the killer, and then they still haven't fixed the problem because it just becomes broken in the other direction.
Like in all honesty, from last patches Sadako, they should have just made condemned go from global on teleport to something like 32m around the tv. See how that goes. Don't screw around with all the tape mechanics, and cooldowns, and add ons, and manifest mechanics at the same time. Make one, significant change, see how it goes, and see if more is needed after that.
I hope they go back to the mechanics off her first version and buff most parts. In my opinion it was the best version. It allowed good teleport gameplay and ok condmened.
I would have made that the amount of condemned you get from teleports depends on your proximity to TVs. 0,5stack (20-16m); 1stack 16-10m and 2stacks 10-0m.
I would also keep the buffs from the other versions and maybe make that TVs don‘t turn of through teleports.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640880#Comment_3640880
Its bugged.
It still spreads condemned via healing. Its her best addon by far.
I hope they don‘t remove the healing part of ring drawing.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641047#Comment_3641047
Alan Wake's not a chapter. It's a Mid-Chapter.
February's gonna have the PTB of the next full Chapter already.
These things go fast, eh?
Didn‘t the ptbs always drop in the first week of a month and then at the end of a month it released.
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The sound effect when you kick gens is really annoying. Please remove it.
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@Haddix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641003#Comment_3641003
chucky came out late november. this ptb is on the 20th, meaning the chapter will come out in march. thats a 3 month difference, why wouldnt there be a new chapter? lol
We got Chucky and Alan wake. I thought after alan we have to wait another 2-3 months.