joeyspeehole
joeyspeehole
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@TonTon said:
Dbd posted on the official twitter revealing Bot Fill has been added to drastically reduce Queue times on PTB.
In lobbies is a default clothing anon mode survivor but when loaded in the match reveals a bot tag on the survivor.
Most likely this will be added to Live and event gamemodes like 2v8 to help reduce the extremely long queue times.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CZPUS3UZR0N0/screenshot-2025-01-10-20-25-31-7e2.png
If they do this, I’ll stop playing too. Cause then they’re gonna basically Nerf survivors into oblivion and there won’t be any counter to it.
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@DTJObe said:
It is a universally accepted truth that SWF with 3rd party communications break game balance. This has been settled in the years since SWF was implemented to prevent survivors from lobby dodging to match up with their friends.
Unfortunately, SWF provides teamed up survivors with massive amounts of free information. This results in:
- SWF survivors having the equivalent of aura reading on their teamed survivors.
- SWF survivors having the equivalent of partial aura reading on the killer when the killer is in view of a teamed survivor.
- SWF survivors having the equivalent of aura partial aura reading on gen progress for gens near a teamed survivor.
- Higher sacrifice rates for Solo survivors and less enjoyable matches.
- Less enjoyable matches and lower kill rates for killers who feel they are powerless against organized SWF teams.
BHVR has stated that SWF is now a core part of the game. This would be a perfectly fine stance IF there were a plan in place to solve the disparities caused by SWFs. As there is no such plan on the roadmap, this becomes a problematic position. But what is the solution for balancing the SWF power disparity?
Some have suggested a SWF-free killer queue with a BP bonus for killers who choose matching against SWFs. This is a poor solution as it increases queue times astronomically on both ends.
My personal suggestion may be technically difficult to input; however, it is hardly an impossible feature to implement, and it would improve the health of the game significantly.
Required Proximity Comms for SWF
A brief explanation of how this would best be structured:
- Any SWF would be required to have an active microphone input before beginning a match.
- Microphone input would go out to X meters.
- Survivors could be reported for comms abuse (blasting music, etc).
- Muting microphones in game would not be possible; however, muting the microphone from the device itself would be possible.
What are the benefits and the pitfalls?
- SWFs would be easier to locate for killers, and killers could hear callouts if survivors aren’t careful.
- Solo queue would be a stealthier way to play, giving solo an advantage to even the gap with SWF.
- SWF would need to be quiet when the killer was nearby. This would increase immersion and add a new dimension to the party game aspect (think Quiet Library or similar). It would also make streaming more entertaining, imo.
- SWF could communicate with solo, giving them information in critical moments.
- This would create a new, more level playing field for SWF and solo queue, and BHVR could then balance from that point.
- Unfortunately, SWF survivors COULD mute their microphones specifically for DBD from their machines; however, assuming that this is a party game and not competitive, this should be the minority because there’s no fun in that.
From my perspective, this is the easiest to implement solution to the SWF-Solo disparity they alsoincreases game enjoyment for all parties. In open for critiques, though. Let me know your thoughts!
At the end of the day, like other people have said, there’s literally no way you can nerve SWF. When I play with people, we’re literally in the same room. Plus, you’ll increase killer queue times if you punish a bunch of people for playing with friends. They’ve already nerve survivors into oblivion, that should be good enough for you.
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@Roco45 said:
The issue at the core is SWF and over tuning Killers to compete with SWF. It's a circular issue that will never be fixed unless BHVR puts the effort into nerfing SWF by changing mechanics and then balancing out Killers/Maps/Loops once that is taken care of. The typical Surv experience, SoloQ, is unplayable and the worst it's ever been; the Killer experience is nothing but either sweaty or too easy (SWF vs SoloQ), both unsatisfying and built on toxicity.
Soon the game is just going to be filled with SWF groups and then Killer will drop off since most Killers just don't enjoy facing SWF as they currently are, doesn't matter how much BHVR nerfs maps for Survs and Buffs Killers.
It is beyond atrocious that currently in DBD, every match of SoloQ has someone immediately in a chase from the start because of mobility Killers and/or Lethal. To which then every match is just an unfun camp/tunnel/slug fest filled with "going next" or DCing because Killers are so tilted from playing against SWF.
BHVR should be embarrassed as Devs that they've let SWF ruin the entirety of the game over the years, without any effort into actually trying to improve the game for everybody.
I feel like people often use SWF as a crutch in arguments. When they nerfed healing, they aimed to structure the gameplay towards teamwork. Do you want other examples? You either have teamwork perks or solo perks. The idea that behavior could detect and nerf SWF is absurd. Imagine people sitting in the same room? How would you detect that? Not everyone uses Discord. And if they found ways to nerf Discord users, people would just switch to a different platform.
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@Slan said:
It would not work, excluding killers from everybody's queues would cause certain killers to be unfairly abandonned. We should be able to play normally.
If we are suggesting this, I may as well suggest making killers able to exclude 3 perks from their queues, since all survivors are the same. Or items as well.
if you don't like playing against certain killers that's okay, it's what comes with variety and the game has a wide roster of killers. Life is like this, there are things that you like and things that you don't. But you can't deny me the option to play a killer just because you don't feel like playing against that killer.
And we all know what 2 killers will be on everybody's list, so yeah…this is something that should never come to be.
I like how you say “exclude perks.” It’s mostly why distortion was destroyed because killers see survivors’ perks as killer nerfs. However, I do agree that excluding killers would a bad thing. When a new killer comes lots of people wanna play that killer. Like, when the hounds master came out, if people could exclude killer, it would be such a long queue time.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870582#Comment_3870582
The problem is, thye had to nerf it because too many people were abusing it to just sit in corner and hide and do nothing all round. It became a huge issue if the person had it and they were one of the last two alive. it was also super awful if everyone decided they wanted it as it countered way way too many perks and addons and powers.
Distortion was cool to have, but it was too much and people were not using it properly. So BHVR dd the correct thing and nerfed the thing that made it obnoxious to face.This seems to explain why distortion was essentially removed. Survivor perks are viewed as nerfs to killers, which is why overpowered killers keep being introduced while survivors don't gain much in return.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Distortion use to be really damn good at countering Aura Reading but it reached the point to where I use to see at least 2-3 per game, and it basically trained me to never really use Aura Reading perks since they were often not even really needed half the time and I didnt want to waste perk slots for something that got easily countered.
In the same regard, Distortion was also bad for the game. While it let weaker Survivors hide and as opposed to being tunneled or repeatedly hooked, more Killers just ran slowdown, or the change in information changed the flow of hook states leading to some Survivors who didnt bring the perk dying early.
But I think Distortion being "meta" has altered how Aura Reading is perceived, since a majority of threads of Aura Reading seem to be asking for nerfs now that Distortion is nerfed without consider why Aura Reading is the way that it is.
Let's take a perk like BBQ for example.
- You can hide in a Locker to avoid it, and is often really well telegraphed based on the Killer's behavior.
- You can use the Aura Reading to your advantage by running one direction for the duration and then doubling back and running the other direction, using the information against the Killer and baiting them into a checking the wrong part of the map.
- It has a range requirement meaning you can counter it by hovering the unhook or by sitting in the Killer's Terror Radius (for most Killers).
- A lot of Killers cannot use the information to its greatest effect.
- Encourages spreading out hooks by giving the Killer information on what chase to take next.
- Tons of counter-play and new ways of playing is introduced for both sides.
And Ive seen people ask for BBQ to get nerfed because "Distortion got nerfed" and/or "it disrupts stealth too much".
As well, I think people forget that other perks counter Aura Reading. Boon: Shadow Step can be an amazing tool for you and your team but it often gets slept on despite the effect for it being really good for stealth playstyles.
Lockers are also a free-basekit way of dealing with Aura Reading. It does not work for all perks and/or situations, of course, but it can help with stealth playstyles without sacrificing perk slots and is not recognized as much as it use to.
Also, Distortion in its current state isnt that bad either. While it is weaker than it was before, you are still able to leverage it to take chases based on your own terms as opposed to whenever the Killer feels like it. The token system does require you to take chase to gain tokens, which isnt the best for new players, but experienced players can leverage it much easier.
Your argument seems contradictory. On one hand, you say the perk was beneficial for new players because they often get tunneled or hooked, but then you claim that the nerf hasn't ruined the perk as it just made it chase-based.
So, what exactly happens when someone is being tunneled? What I dislike about the entire Dead by Daylight community is that whenever someone points out the flaws in making the learning curve so steep for survivors, the response is always to watch streamers. I hope those streamers are paying you for all that promotion because they certainly aren't teaching anything.
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436667/unsafe-pallet-unsafe-pallet-unsafe
^ Do players not want to improve at the game? Watch some good survivor player streams to know how to run tiles on a map.
They keep reducing the tiles and pallets.
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@ZeroEthics said:
Again plenty of hooks on the map…sabos usually get themselves killed anywaysI'm not saying this to be crude or rude, but this sounds like someone that either doesn't play much killer, or plays in lower MMRs. Anyone that plays killer on even descent MMRs has encountered "Sabo Squads". Plenty hooks on the map when they play 4 Petrified Oaks, running Breakout?
Sorry, but your response has convinced me that your request has nothing to do with actual balance, and more about you wanting to get rid of something you just don't enjoy.Sabo squads are not working on generators. FYI
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869191#Comment_3869191
Are you joking? That loop is 100% a hit no matter what. "I cannot think any map which are killer sided". Lol okay
That’s basically a dead zone. Most of the killers Characters don’t even have to engage you on those tiles, they just use their power. Even supposed “god pallet” loops aren’t safe against a lot of the op anti-loop powers.
The problem is that they gutted healing, then nerved a bunch of the maps, and then created killer characters that had counter powers to the things that they already nerfed.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869021#Comment_3869021
Literally people tell you their issue with current state of the game, a lot of people say same thing - that matches are often unwinnable and killer main on forum says that "no they aren't".
I don't care and your comment won't change my mind, I have almost 2k hours playing dbd mostly as surv so I know if matches are unwinnable or not. You can write whatever you want but you won't change my mind, thx.
the game isn’t the same as it was 2000 hours of gameplay ago.
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The constant slugging and tunneling every single match is unenjoyable. Or when you have like six clowns in a row. And now, people are wanting guaranteed loop hits with this new Freddy build. It makes sense that people are just jumping to the next match.
BTW, creating loop-countering powers is part of the problem. -
…Or change Knockout. Make it so that killers get way more points for hooks instead of deaths. Maybe have a progression option for unbreakable like it starts when more than one person is slugged.
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Exhibit: M
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEpgKS1I2ix/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
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If the timer runs out, the survivors get sacrificed to the entity. If you let the survivors bleed out, it’s different.
If the gate gets blocked when you hit a survivor while running in the gate, how do you account for normal gameplay, where a killer tries to hit the survivor on the way out?
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@Feneroe said:
Better solution: Instead of giving into bad survivors who ragequit at the slightest inconvenience (or because they loaded into a match that a Skull Merchant dared to exist in), we take away their hook suicides and punish them instead. Designing around those people will just cause the killers in the game to all be current Freddy tier.
Then people will just not play the game.
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I think that Boon: Circle of Healing needs a buff. If the argument is that the OG perk was bad, for whatever reason, it should be adjusted to improve self-healing when equipped with a healing item or perk. That way it would be similar to using Boon: Exponential with Plot Twist.
-Or allow self healing while in it again, but make it slow like Self- Care
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@Oputeeva said:
Please nerf it, impossible to play against especially on indoor maps, if you can't nerf aura part of it at least remove all her bear traps
Give survivors aura blocking abilities while crouched. It doesn't have to be long lasting, but I wish they had more trade offs. Maybe that would be better than nerfing the pig.
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@XtremeDBD said:
Maybe its just cus of the winter break that friends are coming together and all to play, but there has been a massive jump in 4 man SWFs who do nothing but run deja vu, quick gambit, prove thyself, wake up, friendly competition and adrenaline.
These people do nothing but do gens for 4 minutes while one dude just pre drops and gives quick gambit to all 3 of their jockies. This has been super unfun to play against and i think its time BHVR nerfs these perks, maybe allow QG to only provide benefits to one survivor, make deja vu similar to prove thyself where only one 6% is applied to a stacked gen.
Other then nerfs, how is deadlock not basekit yet? Survivors shouldn't be able to completely repair a big ass machine so fast, that just kills immersion lowkey.
Survivor is being made stronger in the wrong ways, instead of focusing on perks, maybe focus on solo queue buffs. Like a In gamd voice chat, even mobile had that before core somehow. These just feel like super easy fixes icl.
If you nerf something because of SWF, they’re just going to find something else to build their meta with. You cannot nerf SWF. You could have a 4 person team that’s physically in the same room, how would behavior be able detect that? Sorry for sounding blunt, but people communicate with more than just discord.
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I mostly play as a survivor, and while I don't like it when the killer slugs for the 4k, I feel it's similar to 99ing the gate. However, bleeding someone out is unfair, so I understand the friction on this topic.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847294#Comment_3847294
Sometimes I'm just mindblown by this forums ability to make every thread no matter the content, topic or context an instant "them vs us" thing.
I don't think it's meant to be a 'them vs. us' situation. Some people primarily play Survivor, while others mainly play Killer. What I've noticed is that when people ask for unrealistic buffs or nerfs, they often use terms like 'solo' and 'SWF' to justify their requests. This creates a divide, with people aligning themselves on either side of the issue, based on their preferred playstyle.
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Tea bagging at the gate risks giving the Killer another kill. Slugging everyone and watching them bleed out is just tedious. Why not hook everyone and then enjoy the mori, even if you've seen it a million times?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839747#Comment_3839747
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839760#Comment_3839760
I get the impression, that you had a lot of bad luck with your matches. Have not seen killers DC despite most of them struggling with gen and healing speeds.
Did you actually encounter multiple killer 2mans that dc'd? As far as I know, both have to, do it, otherwise a bot should be deployed. How do you know their intentions?
So in the beginning, yes, I did see several killer teams DC. However, I haven’t seen people DC much recently.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
Here's a better idea:
after being slugged for some time, survivor can instantly pick themselves up, but they lose a hook stage.
it's completely up to them to use that ability or not so killers cant really exploit it and it can become really useful in situations where killers are ignoring hooks too much.
maybe limit it to only one use per match and only if you werent hooked once, so that it cant be exploited in mid/late game where slugging is a fair game.
Will there be any kind of borrowed time?
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I like how they have the unbreakable to counter toxic slugging.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840503#Comment_3840503
I feel like most people are in this boat TBH. If it's Killer, I get it. If it's Survivor… How? Surv side got the best stuff.
I try to break up the teams that move from generator to generator. Also, pay attention to the people who hide near the generators when the group scatters.
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I try to break up the teams that move from generator to generator. Also, pay attention to the people who hide near the generators when the group scatters.
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Killers are DCing to prevent survivors from getting challenges completed. This time it's really toxic.
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First imression: Hook returning and tunneling. No real Self Care option
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I think a lot of people are not realizing that this thread is specific to the 2v8. Not everybody has eight friends that they can play with. Plus, the 2v8 is not fun for survivors.
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@Tamo said:
Give us as survivors an option to give up on the floor, NOW! In fact we need it yesterday, this is getting ridiculous.
If I am in the last 2 & the killer wants their damn mori, I am slugged till the person on hook dies or until I dc also then getting a penalty. If it's a bot teammate they struggle the whole time too so I just get to sit here while the killer slugs me for his 1 Mori. I hate it. Just let me go next instead of TAKING THE GAME HOSTAGE! It's literally against the rules, you could just kill me but no you have to have your stupid moris.
I'm not mad at the feature, just mad I have to sit & wait for it.
Or maybe disable the penalty.
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@jesterkind said:
I've been seeing a lot of posts about how the nerf to Distortion is problematic, or how Distortion has been "killed" or what have you, so I decided to test it out. I equipped Distortion for a good chunk of games, and tried to get a feel for how accessible tokens were and how much impact Distortion had on the trial.
My conclusion, broadly, is that Distortion is still a good perk. It still does the job well enough, though it has been downgraded to be comparable to its peers instead of clearly superior to them in every aspect— it's still better, but it's not better by as much, and that's still a healthier outcome. The fifteen second requirement is honestly quite easy to hit, even for players that are not the best at chase like myself, so tokens were pretty plentiful.
More specifically, I found there were two legitimately strong use cases for Distortion, and one that's fine but much more toned back.
First, it's protection from Lethal Pursuer. That was a pretty popular use for old Distortion, so while it's only a single perk being countered, it deserves top billing. If you don't like being chased at the very start of the match because the killer beelines for a Lethal aura, Distortion still protects you from this. Bring Distortion if that's your complaint.
Second, it's great at fooling mid-chase auras. If you're the type to want to use perks to break chase with the killer but you're worried about perks like Predator or I'm All Ears, bring Distortion. It still does that, and it still does it best of the three viable aura perks.
The third use, the one that isn't as strong, is that it is pretty good at just generic mid-match aura blocking, you just can't evade auras forever using it this way. I had a specific match that I'll use as an example, where the killer had Friends Til The End and I was the Obsession - I blocked the first one, kept repairing a generator, and then realised I'd be vulnerable to the next use of FTTE.
That's the area that Distortion is weaker in, and that's okay, it was always kind of silly that Distortion 100% blocked basically all auras unless specific conditions (stealth killer with no TR, and/or killer with a full gimmick aura build to punch through tokens faster than they regenerated) were met. The perk still has very good and useful use cases, it still does one of the main things that people brought it for, and it still works in almost all the same builds as it used to.
TL;DR, Distortion is still a very good perk, it just isn't a perfect perk anymore and that's okay.
To me, the nerf to Distortion makes it as useless as Spine Chill; there's no point in using it. I get that the whole idea behind nerfing it was to help killers when there's only one survivor left, but it still seems insufficient. It was great to be able to open the exit door a bit and then hide when the killer approached, before finishing the door. The killer is already in a really strong position once the hatch is closed.
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@indieeden7 said:
You could say the exact same thing about survivors' aura reading perks though. You drop a pallet in chase? Aura read. The killer breaks said pallet? Aura read. You finish a gen? Aura read. The killer hits another survivor? Aura read. You get unhooked? Aura read. Once you start to identify when a killer has a perk that reveals your aura, you should be playing around it. Pretending not to know that the killer can see your aura is the perfect opportunity to mindgame, and taking that opportunity can be extremely fun and rewarding.
Remember the days when we had distorsion? Those were nice.
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They never should have touched Distortion to begin with. I don’t understand why killer main’s view counters to their perks as nerfs to the killer. Asking a survivor to do a 15- 30 second chase means they have to get off the generator for a long time. I completely understand why that would be beneficial to the killer, but it’s a heavy burden to use a perk. If the argument is that survivors were holding the killer hostage, it’s just the survivor trying to sneak around and open the gate. With all the killer aura perks available, the survivor might as well just walk up to you and give you the game.
I get the point of having training wheels, but at some point, you’re going to want to ride the bike like a big kid. At the end of the day, Distortion is not base kit; you have to choose to use it. The constant nerfs to survivors are becoming excessive. Is Off the Record next? Will the ability to save other survivors from the hook be the next thing to go? I’m sure the killer mains would love that.
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@Aceislife said:
Why make Decisive built-in if it's a perk already? High MMR games are always sweaty, do yourself a favor and don't take the game too seriously, killers play like that at high MMR for a reason, they go against similiar sweatfests too. High MMR is a sweatfest. And it's normal, since the best performing players are there.
You’re right, they need to make decisive strike and off the record free perks that don’t require unlocking characters.
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@coldflame said:
There's a dozen or so things you're not allowed to do as killer at punishment of being cried at for an hour, but this doesnt seem to translate at all in the other direction. Why is it kosher for survivors to employ whatever miserable and degenerate strategies they want?
Bhvr lean into this by canonising a lot of these complaints in wide reaching balance changes
I think the problem is that survivor-mains are just frustrated that the developers have left them behind. We all knew that when they gutted healing, there would be an even greater chance of the three-genning problem. They keep nerfing survivors into oblivion. Telling people to 'just watch YouTube and learn how to loop,' then releasing heavy anti-looping killers, creates a never-ending cycle. If the developers were fairer and didn’t encourage toxic gameplay, there would be fewer unwritten rules. Survivors still have unwritten rules, like leaving your item if the killer lets you go or not teabagging.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
it is almost like dev agree that current scamper was useless so they're stealth changing it. now i can finally counter god pallets like RPD pallet that purely blocks your way.
There is a counter for the god pallet, break it.
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hopefully you can still blind the killer during the mori once this is fixed, if that task is possible.
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@Grimlet09 said:
they kill switched it. :)
Darn
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They should at least ensure that the trickster shards have no effect on you and don’t increase the attack during the borrowed time.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
Yeah, I said it.
Let’s stop pretending that the biggest problem in the game is anything besides how rampant tunneling is.
Just look how miserable chaos shuffle is for survivors currently. Extremely low chance of getting anti tunnel, meaning that if the killer wants to tunnel you out immediately they can VERY likely do so.
You should not NEED to run anti tunnel to have a playable experience.
I 100% agree. When I started playing, back when Boon: Circle of Healing and Spine Chill were still viable, everybody said, “You know, watch YouTube videos to learn how to get better. It’s so easy to escape the killer.” Since then, they gutted healing, gutted Spine Chill, and gutted a lot of the perks that these YouTube videos advertised for survivors to use. I’ve played the game long enough to manage winning more often, but they have since released a whole bunch of killers that the gutted perks would be good counters to. I mentioned this on some post on Instagram, and the person listed off a bunch of non-starting perks, like Dance with Me and Dead Hard, claiming that watching some spooky looper could help me learn to get better. Seeing the evolution of this game, I can say that there should be more base kit options. The new players don’t have access to many useful perks, and many new friends don’t want to play a game that requires a huge learning curve to enjoy. Waiting forever to start a game only to die in the first minute is frustrating. Might as well DC; what’s the difference?
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I like the random item and offerings pitch. Would you get to keep the item, if you escape? Maybe they won't do it because the offerings would be tricky. I guess the items and offerings would just be a null space, so it wouldn't matter.
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Blocking a tunneler lol 🙅♀️
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This was never meant to be a complaint. I was just curious why people were using that strategy more often. Slugging and baiting, or any form of camping is not fun for me when I play as killer. If it's just to get the 4k, then it is boring. I don't care about rankings; I play for fun.
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Here are some pictures:
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It's not a visual bug, the perks were base level when I played. Kindred only showed 1 random Survivor's Aura.
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@Ohyakno said:
Why would they have buffed distortion? It's a single perk that counters an entire suite of killer perks and add-ons by itself. Vs anything but a full aura huntress you're not running out of tokens.
A full aura build as 95% of the killers in the game is a game losing proposition. So is that the problem or is it quad slowdown? Is this Schrodinger's complaint?
Finally I find it odd that you have an AI summarize these changes. You can't read and condense changes on your own?
First off, I didn’t know where to find the changes; someone mentioned it to me. I just asked the Microsoft browser tool to look for what changes are being made to Distortion. Second, I have played games where, within the first minute, all of my stacks are gone. Players have to be in the killer’s aura for 30 seconds to rebuild access to use Distortion again. If the killer uses an add-on or perk that extends the terror radius, the drawback is that it would benefit Distortion users. However, if you are around other players, Distortion has no benefit. For instance, in the very beginning of the match, against Lethal Pursuer. The perk is already pretty well balanced, and like I said, I’ve played against a lot of people with heavy aura builds. The only reason I can see them gutting Distortion is because they want to exponentially increase the value of the aura perks that they have been giving killers. If you want to beef up killers, completely remove the counter.