iloveandhatethisgame
iloveandhatethisgame
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878898#Comment_3878898
It' would be a bad game decision for the killer to hook any of those survivors, because they all have 0 hooks, and therefore have a chance to self unhook and pick up their teammates.
at 3 gens In a 3v1? The killer would win either way
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877760#Comment_3877760
It was awful. As survivor you could not get through a match; they went on for as long as the killer wanted (or didn’t). So many people want that back though. So. Many. People.
i remember playing vs that gen kick combo. Here are also a few things I remember. The 3 gen spread on a lot of maps were so bad that killers could just say in the 3 gen and never leave. The new Eruption came out before the survivor hud so solo que had it the worst because they didn’t know if someone was in chase or when they would go down. Overcharge and call of brine would take a lot of the progress away and eruption would take even more. Every killer could use it. From Myers to blight, every killer could use it fine and get results. I had a Wesker keep us for 36 minutes once with that build
I also remember the same killer mains from this thread saying that “survivors needs to use there game sense” to counter the perk or “use empathy” to counter the perk
I think the funniest one was when some said that eruption was fine and that all you need to do is and I quote “go look around the map and see what pallets you got while you were incapacitated”. Like what does that do for you.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876582#Comment_3876582
The game launched with no SWF and the game was created without SWF in mind, every base mechanic this game is built off of literally reiterates that. What BHVR has done in those 9 years is touch every facet of this game besides SWF and look what we have, a miserable experience for SoloQ and a miserable experience for Killers.
So enough of these threads about "Stopping tunneling/slugging/camping" or "Stopping going next or DCing", start broadening your horizons and acknowledge the real issue, SWF being OP, they play a completely different game than SoloQ does and the game sure isn't balanced around SoloQ.
the devs have said that they have always had swf in mind. And they have a discord to have people play with eachother.
Solo que is miserable because random teammates, you can’t see eachothers perks, and lack of coordination.
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@Rogue11 said:
Could we please change the "escape a trial as _________" challenges to something productive like "gain 25k bloodpoints in a trial as __________"? Watching someone throw the match by hiding at 5 gens so they can complete a challenge is pretty discouraging.
I wish the challenges gave more bps
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876579#Comment_3876579
Are we just going to ignore the almost 9 years of balance and shifting priorities this game has gone through to go from "4 survivors with 0 communication (never really existed anyway since skype AND discord were available when patch 1.0.3 dropped with SWF legit a few weeks after launch)," to where it is now?
Don't pretend like the devs have balanced survivors around "no communication" within the past 5 years at the very least. If you have 0 communication on the survivor side currently, the survivors will lose. Are you calling it OP because the survivors actually stand a chance at escaping via coordination?
Again, I don't care for BHVRs warped stats
But if the stats showed that SWF survivors escaped 80% of the time, you'd be all for a survivor nerf right?
his suggestions for the game are terrible lol
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876347#Comment_3876347
-Increase their gen times
-Can't stack same perks
-Can't bring in tools and have to use chests in the match to get tools or limiting what level of tools then bring into the match, like maybe just brown with no add-ons so that Killers can't determine who's SWF and who's not.
All of those wouldn't impact SoloQ gameplay as Surv and would just impact SWF solely. Buffing Survs just buffs SWF and nerfing Survs completely obliterates SoloQ. Likewise, Killer buffs impact SWF very little while destroying SoloQ and Killer nerfs impact SoloQ very little while buffing SWF a lot. So it's literally only logical that a targeted mechanic change for SWF is needed to compensate for their comms and the plethora of information and perks that they receive just by being on comms, whether each SWF plays with comms or not is irrelevant.
Three easy solutions to add to a PTB and see how it's received and what the vibe is, but really then Killers/Maps/Perks would have to be rebalanced as currently everything has been getting adjusted to deal with the current insanely OP SWF's. Which again, has been ruining SoloQ to near unplayable levels causing DC's and "going next" because all Killers are so titled that they do nothing but the optimum of unfun for Survs in order to have an enjoyable match for them. It's also been nerfing all Maps and features into bland versions of what they used to be.
The best part is, if SWF was nerfed with what I suggested above, then new mechanics for camping/tunneling/slugging could be implemented as Killers shouldn't really be doing any of that and the nerf of SWF would remove the reason it's in the game in the first place, which is to combat SWF.
SWF groups that don't thrive off bullying the Killer wouldn't be affected by any of this either, they'd still enjoy playing with their friends. Killers wouldn't be so so so justly angry and then would only have to deal with their skill instead of unfair circumstances that SWF bring currently, that cause all the nasty gameplay SoloQ gets the brunt of.
Better game for all.
yeah that’s never happening thank god
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@KerJuice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875933#Comment_3875933
Well said. There is a reason most games do not show you who is playing in a party of friends; it’s because the opposition would not want to go against them. If the option is available, a lot of players would choose to back out of the game before it starts- or quit mid-match when it’s obvious you’re getting stomped due to callouts.
Any nerf to Survivor or Buff to killer, merely inconveniences SWF’s in DBD’s case. So for killers, going against SWF’s barely moves the needle- while playing against solos is easy mode, which easily gets boring (for me at least). For solo que survivors, the game gets more and more difficult with every change. Perks that would help the solo Que experience get nerfed (sometimes immediately after PTB’s) because of fear they will get abused or would be too powerful with other coordinated perks in a SWF (looking at you, Reaasurance). No amount of nerfed survivor perks or buffed killer mechanics can hold a candle to a well oiled SWF. Comms trumps all. I do not understand why the minority of the player base is being catered to. SWF’s make this game miserable for Killers and solo que survivors.
My suggestion? Overhaul the “Kill with Friends” game mode and make it fully customizable in every option imaginable. Want old DS & Dead Hard back? Boom- done. Unbreakable basekit? Done. Mechanics that make camping and tunneling useless? You got it. Regulate the SWF’s to this game mode; let them find a 5th friend or create a post to get someone to play killer. Keep the main mode for Killers and Solo Survivors, then balance the game around those two demographics- which are the majority of the player base.
“BRINGING SOLO QUE CLOSER IN LINE TO SWF’S” is NOT the answer. Again, friends with comms trumps EVERYTHING. There is no amount of on screen UI information that will get solo’s close to SWF’s. Simply stating who is going to stay on gens, who is going for the save, what pallet to get downed on, what stealth killer is nearby waiting for the unhook, etc. etc. CAN NOT BE COMMUNICATED IN REAL TIME THROUGH A UI.
And as far as my favorite excuse goes: “SO I HAVE TO BE PUNISHED TO PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS??” Here’s my rebuttal: so game balancing, solo’s, and killers ALL have to suffer because SWF’s have real time, on the fly, verbal communication? This is why I recommend making KWF fully customizable and overhauled.
You know what’s funny (or sad depending on how you look at it)? I bet if all SWF’s were limited to Kill with Friends, NOT one of them would want to play as the killer. Not even if they were to take turns. Hell, most would probably not play at all and quit the game. You know why? Because they know when it’s their turn to play killer they are going to get stomped and/or be stressed the hell out. Either way, they won’t be having much fun at that point. That’s pretty telling and says it all…
yeah no thanks
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we got killer mains saying that they bhvr should “remove Swf from regular games and be in customs”. Bhvr isn’t gonna ruin their game from a financial standpoint just so that yall get your winning streaks
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@Morboth said:
I won't quote every post since, but my point remains: if we do away with squads, the game will improve. Balance will improve. Everything will improve.
The other thing I could think of is introducing a malus. For each player you bring to the match, a -1% in speed or repair speed or something. It's time to put an end to SWFs for good. Who's with me?
“Who's with me?”
No one
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@Reinami said:
Also i bring you this as to why slugging is happening more:
truly one of the worst videos I have seen
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I am High MMR!!!!!
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
In all seriousness, why not? Why not test new gameplay systems and mechanics? Why not test funky or busted addon ideas just to see how they would work?
I want to see BHVR experiment. I want to see them try new things, break the game and build it back up again.
would be great if console got anything
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874901#Comment_3874901
How? I've played the game. There's a reason some of the most experienced killer players immediately ensure the first survivor is slugged and not hooked.
Low mobility killers have been getting more and more punished for hooking over the past few patches. With STB, teams can now force those killers (especially the weaker m1 killers) to not have any kills by the endgame by forcing the hooks to be evenly spread out.This essentially puts them into a very significant disadvantage during the endgame unless they rely on crutch perks such as NOED. Essentially, there's too many ways that killers hooking survivors can be severely punished by the survivors. It's far safer and more reliable to just slug all survivors, now (which is a very unfun and problematic design choice by the devs).
Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level. Lower mmr survivors typically don't have the organization to weaponize perks well enough to punish killers who hook.
“Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level.”
Thats what they all say
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@WolfePhD said:
https://youtu.be/LKCzfXinXtc?si=ZjCaxcJ5Q2MCNXYc&t=624
While watching this video by Skermz, I recognized myself as the Myers in the last clip. I was doing an early tomb challenge where I had to chase survivors. I chased each survivor equally, and went looking for Claudette.
It really made me smile to see that it got included in the compilation. Have you ever been in a DBD video?
I was in a camping bubba montage by killawhale
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he is strong but I find him fun to play against. He has the best chase music in the game and dodging his attack is very satisfying. He is my second main so I have played him a lot I just wished his addons were better
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873761#Comment_3873761
I understand your frustration and I also hate when this happens to me. But respectfully friend… you have Breakout, Tenacity, and Dance With Me in your builds here. And Killers have frustrations and for lack of a better word, "trauma" from bad past rounds where perks like these gave them an unfun match and a rough time. Breakout because it often is run by sabo squads who make it hard to hook with it. Tenacity for the same reason and also because people crawl to comp corners to waste time with it. Dance With Me because, for as weak as it is, some people struggle really hard in chase and find the perk annoying, or may think it's being run with Head On because it's common to go Dance With Me into a locker for Head On to get cheeky stuns, and some people hate that.
Just like you don't know what a Killer may or may not do in a round, the Killer doesn't understand where four random Survs are coming from, yourself included, so what will they think if they see perks like this in a round? They might call back to a time someone with those perks used them to be annoying, used them in a sabo bully squad, they may even be old enough to remember when some perks were so powerful they enabled ACTUAL for real ye olde bully squads. And that pain sticks with you no matter how many times you say you're over it. That sort of loss feels unfair, you feel outperked not out skilled, and when you're newer it's discouraging. But as you get better at the game, that doesn't mean you don't still feel annoyed by these perks.
It may seem silly to you, but it's true. I personally have hangups with blinding mechanics and really hated Blast Mine when it first came out. The first time I encountered it the whole team had it, and I was in the round just vibing as Wraith. I didn't have fun that round, I didn't win, and it sucked because every five seconds any time I simply tried to do what the game told me to, I got blinded and Lightburned out of my power. That isn't fun, that wasn't fun, I felt mocked at the time. Of course now, I know how to handle that perk. But I still don't like the perk, because I had past bad experiences with it that just really stuck with me. That may sound really silly to you, but think about how many times you have had a perk a Killer has used that isn't all that consequential that YOU just irrationally don't like. For example… Franklin's Demise, which really doesn't do all that much in the round except lose your item. Or Lightborne when you're trying to go for flashlight blinds. Or maybe the Killer happens to have an annoying mechanic like Skull Merchant used to, so now because a baby p0 Skurchent found out by total accident she could lock down generators and used it to win without really understanding why that's frustrating, you hate all Skurchents now. It could be the same here.
See, the Killer may not know you're SWF. The Killers MAY be slugging you because you look as though you have perks that line up with SWFs who are coordinated to run in for timed saves, because you keep causing them to drop other Survivors with Breakout, because you crawl off before they can hook you with Tenacity and look like you might be going to bleed out in a comp corner to make it harder to hook you, or because they may falsely think that you have ANOTHER sabo, wiggle, etc. perk in your loadout.
Killers don't know what you have before they see you. They can't see your perks before a round. They can't know why you run these perks. All they have is experiences where Survivors created unfun situations for them when those perks were run before, so now they just slug when they see these perks because they don't want to risk a stun, time wasted on a needless chase that you vanished from, or having to lug a Survivor from the corner they crawled into just to be petty and waste time. They don't know if you intend to annoy them with these perks, troll them with these perks, or just play the game with these perks because you like these perks. Think about how many judgement calls made in the moment that even you probably put on Killers who say… bring perks like Pain Res. But maybe they like Pain Res, or their Killer is slow and genuinely needs Pain Res for the pressure, or maybe Pain Res does have a good reason to be there because they like scourge hook builds, and yet… how many of us would be the first to call that Killer "sweaty" or "a meta slave" if they used it? What about if they're a Nurse and they just found out the synergy with her power, any different?
And those frustrations, I know you know this, don't stop because you randomly got the perks. Especially because Chaos Shuffle is a time when LOTS of Killer Players like to randomize who they play, try new Killers, learn Killers without caring about wins, and generally don't care as much about wins as you might think because they know odds are people don't have generator perks and they don't need to try as hard.
I'm not saying any of this makes it right. I'm not saying you deserve to be treated this way. He was definitely in the wrong, and certainly sweaty for no reason. But at some point, if you see a pattern where multiple different Killers ESPECIALLY M1s like Pinhead are doing this frequently EVERY ROUND even in normal games, I would strongly start to question if it's due to the perks or your playstyle.
I am so sorry the game gave you perks that made you look like you're here to cause problems. I know you're not, we all know you're not, I think that Pinhead knew you weren't - but remember, everyone's being sweaty this event. I actually just had a discussion with a random the other day because her and her TTV friend brought overpowered items and forced us all on Eyrie… in Chaos Shuffle. Yeah. A Survivor sided map, bringing in overly strong items the Killer had no real defence against because they KNEW they could push gens with no issue because there's probably no gen perks happening, instead of embracing the mode for the chaos it's intended to be and being more random and less sweaty. They had to win on stream for their followers that hard. Sadly, we got a pretty good Wesker, who frankly was as unhappy to see all this as I was, because I knew from the start their setup would make him nervous enough to being sweating.It really is both sides. Don't kid yourself.
“But respectfully friend… you have Breakout, Tenacity, and Dance With Me in your builds here. And Killers have frustrations and for lack of a better word, "trauma" from bad past rounds where perks like these gave them an unfun match and a rough time.”
You have got to be kidding me🤣
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@Camilll3e said:
You can choose multiple and any killer you want.
pyramid head
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874420#Comment_3874420
The goal posts move every time. Killers have been promising to play nice in exchange for survivor nerfs for years now but they’re yet to actually hold up their end of the bargain.
apparently now killers slug because survivors get ds, otr, babysitter, deliverance and so now I guess the devs should just delete those perks so we can get slugged and tunneled while we use perks like diversion and bloodpact.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874449#Comment_3874449
Buddy, my experience actually lines up with what I say. I never said I'm top MMR. But I'm high MMR, otherwise the survivors wouldn't run full bail out builds, actually do the gens quick, and try as hard as possible to not let the killer get 1 kill. Not every killer sucks, per se, but they're definitely not OP like everyone says. OP would be like stopping the survivors from getting a single gen done, every time. No, the majority of matches I'm seeing are ending after all the gens are done, or 1 gen left. And what the survivors are displaying is not impressive at all to be getting those kinds of results. The amount of times I see people screwing up at loops over and over again, or just standing around doing nothing, but because 1-2 people knew how to play, the whole team gets out, is too many too often. It shows massive imbalance. Because if the killer just didn't know how to chase at any tiles, or just stood still for minute, there's literally nothing he could do to bring that game back. Even playing his best, and making 1 suboptimal play, he's in an unrecoverable game, unless the survivors massively screw up.
This is what I see nearly every time I get on. And when I get easy matches, I know it's not me. It's the weak survivors. Them appearing in matches is the only thing that gives this game the illusion of killer-sidedness. Because it's not killer sided at all. If I wasn't invested in this game, I'd leave it in an instant. It's what I did with Evil Dead, because that game is a legit group bullying power fantasy, where literally nothing the demon does changes the results of the match.
“Buddy, my experience actually lines up with what I say.”
Your experience is that you struggle a lot as killer but your high mmr. You also said that you tie and lose a lot. That makes 0 sense. And you did say that there were just 2 killers in this game that were good and the rest sucked.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874001#Comment_3874001
I think not. I think survivors have what they need at base, and those who don't realize or take advantage of that run to special events hoping to make them into to coveted "casual mode." But these modes, while "fun" in nature, are not marketed specifically to casuals. It's just a twist, a rule mix-up. And us who take things more seriously need that as well every once in a while. But all I see are the complaints of casuals, both the level of stuff they usually lose to: "OP Wraith! OP Xenomorph! OP Dracula!" and the exaggeration that usually accompanies it. "Every single match the killer is slugging and hard tunneling! We don't even do 1 gen!" So no, I don't think they need even more special accomodations. Noobs will be noobs.
“But all I see are the complaints of casuals, both the level of stuff they usually lose to: "OP Wraith! OP Xenomorph! OP Dracula!" and the exaggeration that usually accompanies it. "Every single match the killer is slugging and hard tunneling! We don't even do 1 gen!" So no, I don't think they need even more special accomodations. Noobs will be noobs.”
Buddy you do the same thing saying every killer sucks and that your in extremely high mmr. That’s the same exaggeration your talking about -
@TwinsMain2004 said:
buff going for hooks then
first it was “we slug because the hook breaks”
They fixed that and now it’s “we slug because hooks are weak”
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@Nazzzak said:
This feels a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Much like content creators pushing the 3-gen strat during the Overbrine era, all they're really doing is ensuring BHVR step in and slap a bandaid on slugging before they do anything about prioritising hooks over kills (which is what Tru3 and co are likely pushing for with their slugging). The devs will be expecting an influx of new players with FNAF coming up, there's no way they're gonna let a content creator-led slugging meta be those player's introduction to the game lol they'd all just leave.
i am kind of shocked that Choy does it because I felt like he would be someone that actually cared about both sides. As for tru3, he only cares about the killer experience so it’s not shocking. He wins most of his games yet still complains
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
I have said this from the beginning content creators are the downfall of this game. Yes they do advertise but at what cost? They show 5 gen slugging and then you veteran players leave because they can't counter without a good team. You're left with toxic survivors as well. I think the devs need to start reinforce some things as well.
I really think the hook respawn was to prevent slugging and we all know that if they can they will. I don't even understand the last person mori decision and everyone told them it would lead to more slugging and here we are.
It shows lazy killer aspect as well. I
I think content creators hurt this game as well. I know there are some that are positive like Otz but then you have the negative ones. Also the gen kick meta and the skull merchant 3 gen strat didn’t start until content creators posted videos about it
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@tjt85 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CUMAMRQHULER/chaosshufflebleedout.jpg
Today I've had a houndmaster that bled me out for absolutely no reason (even returned to give me a nod), a tunnelling Wraith at 5 gens and a Houndmaster that 4 man slugged the entire team at 1 gen remaining. She got the 4K with the finisher mori that she wanted if you're wondering.
So yeah, I think I'm good for playing Survivor in Chaos Shuffle now. I might even be done with Survivor entirely if things don't improve soon.
you know it’s bad when the crows come out
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873446#Comment_3873446
so even if people who actually main survivor and know very well how to use perk say that perk is strong, you would dump a "killer main" tag onto their face simply because you don't eventually know how to use it well?
Although, this perk is not that difficult to be used at all because it's basically old DH (i thought yall liked old DH?).
So many strong survivor perks are bottlenecked with average survivor skill. Does it mean they are bad as you'd think? Absolutely not.
“so even if people who actually main survivor and know very well how to use perk say that perk is strong, you would dump a "killer main" tag onto their face simply because you don't eventually know how to use it well?”
I said it was a b tier perk. I have YouTube videos of me using the perk fine. It’s just not this super strong perk that the people in this forums are insinuating.
Also the people that were saying that were obviously killer mains
“Although, this perk is not that difficult to be used at all because it's basically old DH (i thought yall liked old DH?).”
I didnt. But nice try
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@Nomade said:
I dont really want to get into discussing perk builds specifically here because it will lead to going on a tangent and possibly derail the thread.
That said, I tend to find survivors who are running wonky, off meta builds to be the most fun to play against. Im not really saying that because I want easier chases and downs. I genuinely find those builds to be more fun a lot of the time depending on what they are doing.
The thing that effects the fun and enjoyment of a match for me most of all though is seeing the survivors be chill. Maybe they goof, know that ive caught them and whip out the lute and start playing me a tune for example. I will often just smile and walk away when i see stuff like that where people are obviously just trying to have a fun match vs trying to be super sweaty. So yeah, it's not really just with perk builds, a lot of it comes down the the way people are behaving in the match.yeah that’s fair
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873368#Comment_3873368
I wouldn’t even consider Dramaturgy a b-tier perk. It’s mid… maybe c-tier. There are just more reliable perks that do its job better (exhaustion: literally all of them besides smash hit and head on; items: pharmacy, ace in the hole, plunderer’s instinct, etc). And none of these perks carry the same drawbacks that Dramaturgy has; largely the exposed effect or being killer-dependent.
I agree. It’s just funny seeing the same killer mains in this thread overrate niche survivor perks and then use “good survivors” as justification. He explained why overcome sucked and that applies to dramaturgy as well
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
As killer, I don't like going against Blast Mine. I find it really annoying.
As a survivor, I play a lot of solo. So anything that's disproportionately difficult for a solo team to deal with is a thumbs down for me. Knock Out, Pentimento, and Third Seal come to mind.
Other than that, I'm not really that fussy.
I actually like getting Blastmined as killer as it’s my favorite perk as survivor. Head on however is a different story. It’s really flashlights that I hate the most tbh. I don’t mind petimento either
Yeah knockout…..
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873155#Comment_3873155
All exhaustion perks behave this way, but they all have some kind of downside or activation requirement associated with them that makes them not perfect. For example:
- Sprint burst requires you to not run, or if you do, you have to spend time "99"ing the perk, but then if you 99 it, you can't stop to repair a gen or anything, it requires you to manage it a bit better. Additionally, sprint burst happens at the start of a chase, so if you see someone sprint off, you can just choose to not take the chase for example.
- Adrenaline only activates in the end game and only once
- Background player is mostly used for flashlight saves and pallet saves, it effectively activates AFTER the killer has already won a chase (assuming they pick the survivor up)
- Balanced Landing requires you to fall from a great height, there aren't as many spots on many maps to do that. Sure some maps have them everywhere, but its far more map dependent and usually requires you to be in only certain areas of the map to get use out of it.
- Dead hard, the current version anyway, requires you to be hooked once in order to get a use out of it. Meaning that if the killer sees you "NOT" using another exhaustion perk, they can probably expect the dead hard better, and know when it is coming because they already hooked you once.
- Head on requires you to jump into a locker, something you probably aren't doing in a chase, unless you dedicate a whole build to it, and even then, it is risky, if you don't time it right, the killer gets a free grab and hook from you.
- Lithe requires you to vault something fast. Which means that if you want it to activate at the "perfect distance" when looping, so you get the most efficient use of it, you can't actually vault things before that time. Meaning that usually you aren't getting the maximum value from this perk that you would the others. The trade off being that it is easier to activate when you want to rather than requiring specific conditions since there are tons of vault locations around the map.
- Overcome happens when you get hit, and again, the killer can clearly see you running super fast, so they have an option there to drop chase, and they already got value, because they injured you, meaning that it gives the killer more options when the chase happens. Additionally, since it only works while healthy, if the killer catches you again before you are healed up, you don't get to use the perk again.
- Smash hit only works on pallet stun, which is often much harder to do than people think. Additionally, if you stun the killer, you already "won" that interaction in the chase, and smash hit isn't giving you that much more value. A good killer will probably end chase there anyway and go after someone else unless the survivor sticks around or the killer has something like enduring.
What about Dramaturgy? Well, its just, there. With no actual downsides when used properly by a skilled survivor. There's no real activation requirement (yes you have to be healthy, but if you are using it "for distance" you should already be healthy) And the downside of the exposed is too short to really get much value of of if used properly. It also can give you some cracked items as well, or let you run for longer, which when it does that, should give you an extra loop around whatever you are looping, extending the chase even further before you have to drop the pallet.
While, it is not as strong as old dead hard for distance, it is comparable in that it achieves the same outcome when used properly. Its just a bit harder to use properly than old dead hard was.
once again your overrating this perk. The speed doesn’t last long enough (unless you get 1/4 effects that extends it) and the expose effect is a draw back if you get greedy. Also like how you pointed out why overcome is trash, the perk has to work when your healthy so if you can’t get a heal or you get tunneled the perk does nothing. Also certain killers completely shut this perk down like plague and legion while other exhaustion perks still work. The perk doesn’t make you invincible like old dead hard. You can still hit them through the dramaturgy. It’s a fine b tier perk just not this s tier perk or “the old dead hard”.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872979#Comment_3872979
I think you are misunderstanding, just like old dead hard, i'm not saying you use it to "dodge a hit" i'm saying you use it "for distance" so that you can loop something more than you should be able to. So a situation where you SHOULD get hit, turns into you getting the window or the pallet, just like old dead hard. The power of old dead hard was not in dodging the hit, it was in using it for distance.
yeah….lithe sprint burst balance landing do exactly what your saying as well. Like I said you’re overrating the perk. Not sure why (well I got an idea) but this is such a bad take
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872357#Comment_3872357
How exactly does a killer counter the speed boost from dramaturgy then? A 25% haste makes them move faster than the killer, so you use it to get a little extra distance to loop around a structure that you would normally not be able to and drop the pallet or get the window. Sometimes it lets you run longer, the scream isn't really that big of a deal, the free item is great, and the exposed effect shouldn't come into play because the idea is you get the window or to a pallet to drop. At that point 12 seconds isn't long enough to catch back up.
“How exactly does a killer counter the speed boost from dramaturgy then?”
Gee idk just hit them? Old dead hard not only have you the dash to make it to the pallet, but the main reason why it was the best perk in the game is because it countered every single power from every killer. It left your character invincible to every attack in the game. If huntress throws her hatchet and you used dead hard it did nothing. If she throws it and you use dramaturgy you still get hit. They are not even close to the same power. Most of the killers have antiloop so the speed isn’t that big of a deal Dead hard rn is still better than dramaturgy. Lithe sprint burst and balanced landing are better as well. You’re overrating the perk. If it was really like “old dead hard” then the perk would be the most used in the game like how it was before 6.1 patch. But clearly it’s not
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I’m happy with my stats 40% escape rate and 8 hooks per game. I’ll take it
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@MoZo said:
With perks on the killer side like reworked genetic limits and the recently gigabuffed languid and the good old mindbreaker providing the killer constant ways to exhaust survivors, could mft or DH be reverted to their most previous state? Genetic limits would counter both of these perks the moment you injure them. Maybe buff genetic to 10 or 12 seconds to compensate but it feels like dh and mft were in times where the killers had very little recourses to exhaust survivors to counter their perk. Now that killers have reliable ways to exhaust survivors I want to know if you all think mft or dh (Not both that would be overkill) could be reverted. (Mft to 7.0.0 version and dh to 6.1 version)
no
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@SoGo said:
They have to create a new game mode, because doing the same thing over and over with breaks in between being so small, that it's not it
yep it’s time for….
Bhvr to team up with Nintendo and give us dbd Mario kart
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436849/dramaturgy-and-finesse
Dramaturgy is old dead hard for distance and i have been saying that from the beginning, the difference is it works backwards, whereas dead hard only was usable while injured, Dramaturgy requires you to be healthy.
they are not the same thing
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I don’t like this mode.
Can we get 2v8 again🙏
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@NarkoTri1er said:
the perk was already strong at 3s, 5s was literally only because awful players complained because perk has a skill floor in terms of knowing where to force a down and aren't aware how to deal with tunneling Nurses, Billys and Blights. This perk needed something like disabling killer's power for additional 5+ seconds, which would actually be a counter to tunneling S-tiers.
Many players suggested it, but "casual" players won and now you have perk that doesn't really counter tunneling S-tiers, but does overwhelmingly good job against all other killers.
the perk sucked at 3 seconds
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@danielmaster87 said:
The perk was strong at 3 seconds. The strength of the perk comes mostly from the killer losing all momentum when he gets hit by it. It's you getting a hook or kill vs you having to chase a survivor a 4th time, or wasting a chase. Same with flashlight/pallet saves. The killer getting stunned longer than 3 seconds is just overkill, because at 3 you actually had to go down somewhat near a loop to be safe after your free getaway. At 5 seconds, you could get across the whole map off that stun. At 4, not much better for the killer. Y'all are way underrating the ability to just deny the killer a hook after pickup. That perk, no matter the conditions, is always gonna be strong.
And so what if certain killers catch back up to you, because their ability lets them traverse distance faster? That's their whole point, and it's how they got you in the first place. You have to counterplay them. Do you want to prevent them from using their power, just because you used a perk? Or make the stun even longer, which mostly punishes the weaker killers? It's still forced from lockers and medium/slow vaults, you can flashlight/pallet save or do a killer objective and still keep it, and it's active after the killer has hooked somebody else. It's active, theoretically, after the killer's hooked other people like 3 times. How's that anti-tunnel? The perk is anti-momentum, like Deliverance where nobody has to get off gens to save the survivor, and this kind of perk design is why killers don't want to hook anymore. If you're gonna make these perks, at least don't make them strong, because it creates more problems than it solves.
“The perk was strong at 3 seconds. The strength of the perk comes mostly from the killer losing all momentum when he gets hit by it. It's you getting a hook or kill vs you having to chase a survivor a 4th time, or wasting a chase. Same with flashlight/pallet saves. The killer getting stunned longer than 3 seconds is just overkill, because at 3 you actually had to go down somewhat near a loop to be safe after your free getaway. ”
No the perk was a joke. Killers didn’t respect it anymore and they just tunneled through the weak da stun. Plus a lot of killer countered this perk anyway.
“The perk is anti-momentum, like Deliverance where nobody has to get off gens to save the survivor, and this kind of perk design is why killers don't want to hook anymore. If you're gonna make these perks, at least don't make them strong, because it creates more problems than it solves.“You know what you’re right. Survivors shouldn’t have perks anymore. They shouldn’t enjoy the game anymore. Only the role that wins most of their games should enjoy dbd
come on man complaining about deliverence? I get you overrate your skill but complaining about a healthy perk is next level -
@jasonq500 said:
Can be any changes you're really glad it's not in the game
Here's mine:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LJWA48VD978N/screenshot-20250107-014931-7e2.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8QQXHDVZEKDY/untitled51-20250107015632.png
Never have been this angry over a change like this, one of if not the worst changes from last year given how much of a positive feedback she was given during the ptb
And I am so glad nerfs she got were set back heavily and hope she doesn't get any more
I’ll do both roles
For survivor I don’t miss skull merchant at all. Dont care that she got gutted as her player base just used her to make games miserable
For killer I do not miss old nemesis as I think this most recent buffed version is so much better to play as. Also happy licker tongue does something
Honorary mentions: old eruption and old dead hard
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
It's not exactly much of a secret that DBD matches frequently have one person who has zero intention of actually playing the game, matches get ruined by one ######### with a chip on his shoulder who either get found first, don't like the killer, don't like the perks, don't like the fact that their teammates weren't on gens for 0.5 seconds, I could keep going. It's honestly one of the reasons why I take extended breaks from DBD if a Event or Tome isn't open, playing a regular match of DBD just isn't worth dealing with people who quit at their earliest convenience or otherwise try to make the game miserable for everybody but themselves.
I've done some thinking on it, and I've come to three conclusions.
One. People who quit simply don't enjoy 90% of DBD's content and still stick around, this is something I have seen people complain about a lot, "X thing isn't fun", "X thing is broken" "X thing is overpowered", etc etc etc. To those people, a very simple message has to be told to them, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO NOT PLAY A GAME YOU DO NOT ENJOY ANYMORE. It is quite literally that easy, if you do not like the majority of a game's content and do not like most of your matches, ######### stop playing, uninstall, and play something else, it is not that hard to do, there is no shortage of incredible games nowadays to spend your time on, play one of those instead of ruining the match for everyone involved.
Two. People who quit do it when whatever stupid strategy they're using doesn't work, I get it, a killer bringing Lightborn completely counters your stupid BGP/Flashbang combo that the devs still haven't fixed because Flashbang is still dead silent and able to blind people staring at a wall while the flashbang is behind them, I get it. Guess what? Tough #########, that's part of playing DBD, running a single strategy every game gets boring anyway, run some other perks and experiment with the like 200 perks you can use, you might find something you like that a Youtuber didn't show you.
And then finally the big one, Conclusion Three. Survivors have very little reason to actually stay in a match, and a gigantic part of the problem is the MMR System. Shocker I know, but MMR is a much bigger problem in relation to giving up beyond the obvious of getting stuck with teammates that aren't very good because you get tunnelled and camped or whatever, the actual problem is a simple lack of incentive, if a survivor isn't having fun, they have zero real reason to keep playing out that match, survivor BP gain is pathetic compared to killer BP gains, and their MMR would go down either way, so why stay in a match they think they're guaranteed to lose if they get punished either way and only get like 5k extra BP for staying?
And on that subject, here's how I would fix things.
- Remove Self-Unhooking, just straight up get rid of it if you don't have Deliverance, Wicked, or get the Anti-Facecamp metre, this mechanic on its own has been ruining matches since the game released, it is a fundamentally ######### mechanic that either lets people delete themselves from the game sooner or completely negate a killer's pressure through a dice roll, get rid of this bullshit.
- Change how Survivors get BP, escaping chases should give Survival points, teammates completing gens while you get chased should give the guy getting chased Objective point, the people doing gens while their friend is getting chased should give Boldness, etc. One of the biggest problems is survivors not getting rewarded for actually working as a team, so reward them for playing as a team.
- Add post-match Accolades, do you know how many people would stay in a match if they get a shiny badge that says "Congrats you got Chased for X minutes"? I know I would, and, even better, have them be tracked, let people show off their longest chases, time spent on Gens, times healed, anything, give people a small ego boost every so often, come on.
- And then finally, Fix the ######### MMR System and add more ways to increase it, simply escaping or dying affecting MMR is bullshit and just incentives selfish behaviour, increase MMR if you stay in chase for long, heal your teammates frequently, doing gens and totems, SOMETHING. Adding this stupid system to a game the devs have repeatedly state is a casual party game was already a bad idea in concept, but making one this ######### basic and garbage somehow managed to make the game significantly worse. Please, BHVR, do SOMETHING to fix this mess I beg of you.
Rant over
G'night
other than them removing the ability to unhook idk how they can really fix that issue. Also telling others to uninstall isn’t gonna help
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@buggybug said:
Anything that exposes me is a no go, i rather lithe quick and quiet and dance with me with either light weight or light footed. Very easy to throw off killers that way.
yeah sprint Burst lithe and balanced landing are better than dramaturgy. It used to be underrated but with how it’s gotten some attention recently it’s becoming overrated
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871752#Comment_3871752
I remember when people was asking for buffs for dramaturgy as well. I just remember that one user who kept hyping up drama and telling everyone how underrated it was.....and they was right.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/407210/all-exhaustion-perks#latest
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408755/birth-of-a-meta-perk#latest
tbf none of the perks are amazing by themselves they kind of almost have to go together to make it work. Vigil as well
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871864#Comment_3871864
I also was the one, who said that Drama is basicly old DH for distance and I have a lot of value from it in first month after release. And got replies with meaning "you stinky killer main can't prove me that this perk is good". And it took 1,5 years to survivors only players to realise it's actually strong perk.
Stay with us and in the next episodes of our show "Why you should never listen to survivor main says that new perks are bad" we will discuss that Lucky Star is amazing for soloq, Troubleshooter extremely underrated, there are a lot of fun builds with Parental Guidance, how healing perks are game changing now and boons considered "bad" by community is the only thing which keeps this mechanic from nerfs. With your humble "killer main" show host fussy.“Stay with us and in the next episodes of our show "Why you should never listen to survivor main”
Stay with us and in the next episodes of our show “why we should never listen to you”
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@notyarbllewe said:
I have played DbD since summer 2017 with Adrenaline sitting there for so long. Though I don't see it every round and it's been nerfed over the years, when Adrenaline comes into play it can literally kill the killer's game sometimes. Last chance for at least one kill near the end and then they have Adrenaline, healing the survivor and giving them a boost ahead. And that one survivor getting healed can change a killer's chance for multiple kills to no kills.
The perk is very situational, but in the right moments, Adrenaline is still very strong, and both saves and kills games. I don't really know what they should do to it, but it's extremely frustrating when someone gets an in-chase use of that perk.
“I don't really know what they should do to it, but it's extremely frustrating when someone gets an in-chase use of that perk.“
The perk is healthy like no way out
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865833#Comment_3865833
Saying you had 40 second chases tells me literally nothing. Theres more to a match than just chases.
Calling it "baby mode" for survivors and saying that the killer has to basically be flawless is just false, since the same can be said for survivors if they dont run meta either, or theyre Solo Q, which is the majority of people you run into (stats back this up, even if youre supposedly in "high mmr")
also no idea what youre on about in that last paragraph. But pop off, king
“also no idea what youre on about in that last paragraph. But pop off, king”
😂
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865579#Comment_3865579
If by "regular" you mean "against awful survivors", than maybe yes.
Whole event I play with meme/chase builds on different killers and it's just absurd how onesided game against even very mediocre survivors, if you don't bring at least two slowdowns.
I played Blight match with Enduring, BBQ, Fire Up and Brutal, almost every chase was under 40 seconds, you know how fast this game ended? 7 minutes and all gens are done, I had 5 hooks and 2 in endgame, average number of hooks, when I don't bring slowdowns.
Literally the same on Clown with Rapid, Blood Favour, Undying and Thrill. Fast chases, 5 hooks before last gen poped, gg ez.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865579#Comment_3865579
So yeah, when you take regression away, it's definately about skill, sadly only on killer side, because on survivors it becomes literally baby mode, while killer should play on his max performance to achieve at least something.
I really tired to read this "oh but average matches" bullshit, which only works for killers, but you surely never read on this "killer heavy" forum that you should win not less than 80% of your matches in good SWF, for example. Or that you are going against god tier Blight/Nurse/Spirit/Singularity not more often, than against really good survivors. It's different, for sure.“If by "regular" you mean "against awful survivors", than maybe yes.”
Says the awful killer player
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869504#Comment_3869504
Well to be fair, back in beta we had things like, insta mori. And also people generally didn't know how to play very well. Back then "looping" wasn't really a thing because the game was more akin to a hide and seek, whereas now its more like a game of freeze tag.
yeah but back then dead hard alone made the game survivor sided. One perk countered every killers power.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869440#Comment_3869440
no they are not inverse. Like pulsar states, your always going to do better than average states like with his legion example. All i am saying is that you do not need accept the average statistics as only kill-rate. you can get better and outperform whatever the stats say.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869433#Comment_3869433
tru3 states that dbd is in the most survivor sided state that it has ever been. He's been playing the game since beta dbd.
“tru3 states that dbd is in the most survivor sided state that it has ever been. He's been playing the game since beta dbd.”
Yeah the dude that wins most of his games yet complains about everything.
Yeah sorry I don’t care about his biased takes -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869352#Comment_3869352
it is. the go next mentality is survivor entitlement.
the game stopped being survivor sided a long time ago
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@danielmaster87 said:
I really don't trust "killer mains" who entertain this kind of nonsense. Killer has it harder than ever before, not easier. I see it every day, because I load in, go for 2-4 hooks, boom, all gens done. That's WITH Corrupt and Deadlock. The survivors aren't even that good in chase or on gens. They're just efficient enough in each to where you lose almost no matter what, because it's gonna be a close match no matter what. And I called this, mid survivors beating really good killers, but nobody believed. You just can't take away every possible avenue for the killer to have pressure, and expect them to stop the gens anymore. It's all a farce. It's all about getting lucky enough to face bad survivors. You can't compromise with these people, because they think that killers seeing aura, or survivors not having base Unbreakable, is bad game design. They couldn't recognize good game design if it hit them at 80mph. You're literally talking to a brick wall, because the compromises are always 1-way, always killer nerfs. All you'll do is affirm to the devs: "See? Even killer mains agree these changes should go forth" and then killers get even more essential strength taken away. There are countless matches right now that are close when they have no place being close. Because why? Survivors holding a button down? That's what we need to address.
“And I called this, mid survivors beating really good killers, but nobody believed.”
How are you “really good and high mmr” yet you lose every game?