gantes
gantes
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062521#Comment_1062521
Because playing killer is not the same as playing survivor.
That was my entire point. Survivor is easier to play, and easier to master, than killer.
But that doesn't apply to this discussion. At all.
The question is "is okay for people to escape this often". It's perfectly reasonable to bring 4k streaks into the conversation, because you can't be okay with one without being okay with the other without being a hypocrite, period.
Which role is easier to play has no relevance in this discussion.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062513#Comment_1062513
It's not a valid counter because the circumstances are different.
How exactly when we're talking about killer content creators winning that many times in a row vs survivor content creators...winning that many times in a row?
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062470#Comment_1062470
The whole "this is okay because this happened" argument isn't going to help prove any points v.v
The bottom line is, survivor is easier than killer. It's more plausible to escape, more, in a row, than survivor than it is to 4k as killer.
What in God's beautiful Earth does that have to do with anything in this thread?
The question is "should it be possible for survivors to escape this often". It's a perfectly valid counterpoint to point ou that yes, those survivors are dramatically better than the general playerbase, just like killers who are dramatically better than the average player can have stupid long 4k streaks with varying killers (especially considering that by design a 4k is probably harder to achieve than an escape). So if you're discussing one side it's reasonable to say that the same happens on the other side, and I'm personally OK with that when talking about such good players and it'd be hypocritical of me to suddenly have a problem with it when survivors do it.
No one is saying survivor isn't easier than killer because in no point of this entire conversation this got brought up.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062440#Comment_1062440
Because they aren't as prevalent as survivor escape videos. A search showed 2 results.
The Oni video was made before the removal of his flick.
If a killer can 4k that often they get nerfed. Nurse, Spirit are recent examples.
Regardless of skill level, should a survivor go into a match expecting to escape?
Did Speed Limiter Bubba get nerfed after the 32 4ks in a row Scott did?
Did Plague get nerfed after this video got posted?
Maybe people who play this game for a living are, indeed, better than the average player in a game that very few people take seriously enough to be good at.
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Besides, it's pretty darn easy to escape if you're in a SWF and everyone else is willing to sacrifice themselves for you. Not really that realistic of a scenario for the everyday player, is it?
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062419#Comment_1062419
Alright, you got me there. I’ll have to actually concede on that one. Still, however, my point of “4 Survivors are significantly stronger than 1 Killer” still stands, and it still stands that such balance is absolutely unreasonable.
Also, in regards to the insults: I know it’s not serious, and I’m not taking it seriously. I stopped taking it seriously after you called the power role philosophy “bullshit” and said you were “literally seething with anger” (before immediately proceeding to go, “Its just a game, why you heff to be mad” I might add; hypocrisy much?).
If you think I’m truly mad, meanwhile I’m out here in the middle of the night shamelessly dancing to JoJo music, well... Let’s just say my reasons for personally insulting you have nothing to do with frustration or anger.
Ask yourself: how many people who have played for a long time consider this a horror game? How many people stuck around for the horror aspect? How many people would stop playing if this became a genuine horror game with a power role and a role meant to be stomped?
I knew I'd stop playing. I wouldn't play killer because I like a challenge and being considerably more powerful than my opposition wouldn't be one (and I don't have that borderline creepy power thrist a lot of killer players seem to have). I wouldn't play survivor because I don't like games that are rigged against me.
People don't play DBD for the horror aspect. Not the people who stuck around. When they want horror they look for another game. I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong here, this game would've died a long time ago if that's how it worked.
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I think Demogorgon needs more dedicated players that's all. He has a lot of potential but you can't just pick him up and reach his ceiling like you can with most killers.
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Refer to 32 4ks in a row with Speed Bumper Bubba or any other stupid streak ScottJund has in his channel
SHOULD SOMEONE BE ABLE TO KILL PEOPLE THIS RELIABLY WITH A MEME ADD-ON? COULD IT BE BECAUSE SAID PERSON PLAYS THE GAME FOR A LIVING AND IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE PLAYER?
Nah, that doesn't fit our narrative that devs hate killers right?
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062363#Comment_1062363
Wow, you one Survivor can’t physically run from the Killer and do objectives at the same time? WOW, that makes Survivors balanced! Because only 1 or 2 Survivors spawn per match!
Great strawman, buddy. I can see you are in fact seething with anger; a rational person wouldn’t be saying such silly things.
I see no further need to continue this when you have such a weak argument as that. Good day to you, sir.
Oh, and another thing: Your Oni guide sucks.
You kinda shot yourself in the foot when you claimed a survivor is INDIVIDUALLY stronger than a killer because that's factually wrong buddy. I'd backpedal like this if I were you too.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062249#Comment_1062249
Again, high pressure killers are not supposed to use slowdown, only killers with low pressure use slowdown, so they have more time to apply pressure.
Surviviors lost? Lost what? Killer got 0 (in words) ZERO pips, and Im sure at least some of the surviviors pipped, given the amount of gens done.
Stop using this garbage ranking system as a metric for wins and losses the devs themselves admitted it's ######### terrible
He killed everyone except the guy who escaped through hatch. He won. GG go next
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062238#Comment_1062238
Considering it’s meant to be the power role and the entire population of the weak role should have their skills as individuals and as a team consistently strained against the power role, yes, I expect exactly that. Considering Dead By Daylight is meant to be a horror game, meaning Survivors should feel so utterly oppressed and defenseless to the point of fear, I expect that in ever greater quantity.
OK so I HATE this "power role" discourse. DBD isn't a horror game for anyone who played it for over 10 hours. That's just not how fear works. And no one wants to play a weak role.
You can argue killer overall is weaker than it should be and I'd most likely agree but by god this is a videogame meant to be fun for both sides not a killer player powertrip simulator
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@andyollolloll said:
Otz played extremely well as usual but the survivors just kept holding m1 on the gens and regrouping onto the next gen when disturbed and most likely looking at it àn swf on comms.
Otz had never seen anything where he didn't get a chase/loop he was literally just downing them one after another but it didn't matter.
A survivor wasn't happy he was tunneled so sent abusive messages afterwards.
I've seen Otz stream and he isn't one of those gimmicky streamers, he analyses things like Tru3T but BHVR just don't care the only balance is the bank balance.
He did not play "extremely well".
He made quite a few mistakes, some of them out of pure tilt "this survivor is CLEARLY disrespecting me personally by being unhooked so I'll eat the DS and throw 2 generators".
He didn't play poorly, but that was FAR from the best performance I've seen from him.
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Also it's kinda dramatic to say it's "straight up degrading" to say bad killers run NOED, it's pretty darn tame compared to pretty much everything I hear people say to tilt each other in this game.
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I mean, empirically I've hardly ever seen good killers run NOED and plenty of bad ones do so.
It can be a crutch if you allow it too. If you're a good player and run it for some extra insurance it isn't, if you're consistenly relying on it to get kills it is.
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So, I watched the entire video.
First I'm gonna point out the tools survivors had. Two NUTTY toolboxes, and toolboxes are getting changed soon. The guy who escaped had a full on gen jockey build.
As good as he is in the game, Otz has quite a few questionable builds. He had 3 tracking perks. THREE. That's ######### overkill. When you run a build like that you can expect to know where survivors are all the time, but you can also expect the game to go by pretty fast. Corrupt Intervention wins him that early game by a landslide since the survivors would have to physically move to a closer generator. Pop would screw them over pretty bad too after the first down. Also Zanshin Tactics was useful in a single moment and that's it. I know the meta is strict and it sucks but you can't run a bad build and expect things to go smoothly.
Yes, the survivors played poorly, but he didn't have his best game either. He missed slugging chances and deliberately ate a DS. Those moments alone cost him a lot of pressure.
Ahd he still killed someone at 2 gens left. This is pretty much a guaranteed win for a killer with mobility.
This game has strong killers and weak killers. Billy is a strong killer. If the survivors don't have a good early game vs him they're doomed. That's what keeps him in check. I firmly believe that match would've looked very different without toolbox gen speed and if he hadn't made the mistakes he made. It would've been a 3-4k with 3 gens up, which is a stomp, pure and simply. Toolboxes are getting changed, so there's that. And even if that game made it to 1 gen left with everyone alive, he would've had options because late game favors killers way more than the early game.
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The shroud offerings are just shooting themselves in the foot pretty much.
While I dislike map offerings as a whole, the same applies for hostage Doc or jumpscare Myers. Sometimes people just want to play in a specific map. If some maps weren't broken for survivor this wouldn't be a problem. Fix the maps, don't keep players from enjoying the game.
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@Calabrum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060712#Comment_1060712
Sure, you can try hard to win. But every match? Some of us just want to chill. And it's not really fair when survivors get to chill and/or get carried through every match.
I do agree you need to try harder as killer than survivor, especially considering you're the only one responsible for your success.
But this is a problem with this game. There's no option for "this is tryhard time so I'll go ranked" or "I just want to chill so I'll go normals". You never know what the enemy is bringing too. I'm not sure how to fix it in this specific game.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060270#Comment_1060270
The outcry from survivors if huntress had 115 movement would be worse than the ruin change. She's in my opinion the only killer that does need movement reduction. She just needs better maps.
I don't think survivors mind Huntress that much other than dedicated servers hatchet hits.
And yeah I do agree that if maps were better for her she would be fine. But that's clearly not gonna happen. Huntress is the one killer that gets progressively worse with each new map release. Look at the maps we got since Legion, other than the Badham rework she's bad in all of them.
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@Calabrum said:
The ruin change was done too early. In addition, it was handled and addressed poorly by the devs. While it may seem like you are seeing more exceptional killers, the facts are that they are most likely sweating to death to try and win.
Killers do not want that kind of match every match every time they play.
This is a point I find interesting. Shouldn't you have to try hard to win?
I'm not going into the merit of whether survivors have to try or not. If the answer is no, that should be changed too. But in most games I've played people don't have a problem with having to tryhard to win.
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I don't think anyone would disagree that old Ruin was bad design.
At the end of the day,my killer experience hasn't changed much. I'm starting to mind it less and less when 2 gens pop in the first chase because I know I can snowball the game very fast as killer too.
But with matchmaking this bad I don't think we'll get a clear picture of the game state anytime soon.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060592#Comment_1060592
A skill ceiling is the maximum potential for which player input can be translated to skill expression. I don't think YOU get that concept, as you seem to think any killer in this game doesn't operate mostly on fundamentals in the way you assert Spirit does.
Which is a laughable statement in itself considered she has one of the most unique mechanics in this game that requires she plays with a different game sense, but it's all "FuNdAmEnTaLLs" like how are fundamentals factoring into using whispers to sneak up on a survivor for that early game pressure, or factored into predicting survivor tendencies to determine without sight, not only which direction they go, but where exactly they are (since her lung nerf made correcting yourself mid apperance not a thing).
You know what I think? I think you realised what you said was stupid, so in order to maintain some sense of boyancy, you tried to tilt the conversation. Nice try brother, I play fighting games, you aren't going to just throw terminology out there as a safeguard to bad arguments.
Yes, that's exactly what a skill ceiling is.
If you think using your ears and winning guessing games that are rigged in your favor in the first place has more skill expression than knowing the potential for a chainsaw in every single loop/tile in this game, I'd say you're objectively wrong, and that the overwhelming majority of people who play this game for a living would agree with me. If you're born with ears and the minimum of situational awareness you should NOT lose survivors while you're phasing. Not even if they're using Iron Will.
I also play fighting games buddy. And many other kinds of competitive games.That doesn't make you special, nor does it make your point more valid.
And I honestly don't feel like discussing this with someone who can't display a tad of civility when disagreeing with someone so goodbye
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060583#Comment_1060583
I think it's the other way around is what I'm saying. Spirit can be played at a much higher level than Billy. Not saying he's bad, just worse than Spirit.
Yes, I don't fundamentally disagree with that. That's just being a higher tier though, it has nothing to do with skill ceiling.
Freddy can be played at a higher level than Demogorgon because his kit is inherently stronger, but Demo has a much higher skill ceiling.
"Skill ceiling is a different story. This is the set of skills, techs, and knowledge it takes to truly master a hero."
Knowing how to use your power in every single possible tile and scenario as Demogorgon is harder than anything Freddy has to offer, so he has a high skill ceiling. Freddy is more powerful because he's a higher tier.
Knowing everywhere possible you can use your chainsaw, every single loop curve you can make, knowing 100% of the time what chainsaws you can make depending on what add-ons you're running, all of this is exponentially harder than anything you can learn about Spirit. So he has a higher skill ceiling. Spirit is still stronger, so she's a higher tier.
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@DoomsdayDame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060276#Comment_1060276
Where? Because when I play freddy 4 gens pop in the first 3 minuets and then I take the team out ONLY because they got cocky and decided to run saves right as i turn around lmao
You're not executing him properly then. He can end chases quite fast and be where he needs to be in the map.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060432#Comment_1060432
I'm sorry to say man, cuz I'm not trying to be rude, But that is talking out your ass 101.Again, not trying to be a dick, but all that just sounds like BS to me. So you mean to tell me every spirit you play doesn't mind game themselves at pallets? That Iron will isn't a meta perk that basically counters the best tool Spirit has? That prediction alongside with no collision and 110 movement speed doesn't inherently take good skill play? On top of that, you say she has a highish barrier for entry at the very beginning, you just admitted you have to learn her to do well with her, that's bad game design to you? This is all theory crafting BS anyway, so let's take a real look at this.
Take what you just said and apply it to Freddy. Freddy is an M1 killer who is passively invisible from a distance(intermittently so with add ons), has automatic action and gen speeds debuff without touching you, gets to spam traps with pretty much no slowdown and basically gets to cancel loops, gets to teleport halfway across the map or fake out the tele with major synergy with some strong perks, etc. etc. Kill rate higher than Spirit btw. What does that say about your "low skill ceiling"?
Also Billy does not have a High skill ceiling, he's just learning the tiles well enough to chainsaw across the map. Oni technically has a higher ceiling because you have to be judicious with when and where to use his power. Nurse is the only one to really claim a high skill ceiling though.
And tbh, no killer needs that high of a skill ceiling anyway. If anything Nurse is busted difficult to get into, to the point once the old mains get bored/frustrated with her, she basically won't exist anymore. Meanwhile with the recent ruin nerf, the barrier of entry as survivor has never been lower, while the skill ceiling is at an all time medium!
You just showed you have no idea of what "skill ceiling" is.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060264#Comment_1060264
Spirit has a much higher skill ceiling than Billy. A top level Spirit is exponentially more powerful than a top level Billy.
That's not what skill ceiling means. Ofc Spirit is stronger, but Billy has MUCH more skill expression.
The difference between a good Spirit and a great Spirit is very small. The difference between a good Billy and a great Billy is absurd.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
It is kind of BS, anyone who says she's amongst the easiest and has a low skill floor don't really understand the concept. Legion has a low skill floor, Billy has a low skill floor. BUBBA has a low skill floor. Clown has a low skill floor.
Now, I'm not saying Spirit is particularly taxing to play, but she can be very add on reliant for one, requires headphones to be played at full potential as two. Honestly, here skill floor isn't as high as someone like Oni or Nurse, or maybe even the trap characters (because tile layout+trap knowledge requires prediction and other skills no other killer relies on),but her power literally works on prediction and paying attention to environmental clues, and to say a 110 killer at loops is braindead is just, well, braindead. It doesn't matter that you can mindgame pallets if you mindgame yourself, and good survivors can loop still escape against her.
Now I will say she definitely gets a disproportionate amount of value vs the skill and time it takes to play her well, but honestly, she isn't doing anything too crazy and at the end of the day She's only 1 out of 3-4 strong killers that doesn't need buffs or nerfs.
She's the epitome of bad design: high-ish floor, low ceiling.
The difference between a mediocre Spirit and a good Spirit is game fundamentals (and good headphones), that's all.
Compare that to Billy who has an okay floor and a very high ceiling, or Huntress who's the same, or Nurse who has an absurdly high floor AND ceiling which is what a hard character should be about. Lack of depth is never a good thing. Low effort granting big results is also never a good thing.
I'm not saying she's the only one who suffers from this problem. This game is full of characters with little to no depth. But imo Spirit and Freddy are the biggest offenders of low effort, very high reward.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060395#Comment_1060395
Playing like what?
Hard camping/tunnelling.
People who play like that will win quite a few times. Maybe even vs good survivors because they just get bored to death of holding M1 until the game is over. But these people will never be even somewhat good at the game so it's fine. Their choice.
If their idea of fun is making their opponents miserable, then sure, go off I guess. Must be a sad existance.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060366#Comment_1060366
No one said it was the killer's job to do these things.
However if you just camp, tunnel, mori after 1hook you will never be viewed as a top notch killer. I understand when there are strategic moments in the game where this needs to happen. But if your doing it from 5 gens on, you are limiting your own growth as a killer.
And sure you may get 4ks but you won't be respected. Would you want to show your friends your game and say look at me. Look how I tunneled right there. Oh wait the next 2 minutes is a great video of me just standing by the hook.
There is a reason a lot of streamers don't use these tactics as a primary strategy.
Playing like that is just like playing immersed 100% of the time. You might cheese a lot of wins here and there but you'll never really get good at the game.
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@LlamaArmour said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060270#Comment_1060270
I'm just curious, why do you think Huntress shouldn't be 110?
I know she doesn't exactly need to be stronger, I just feel like every other slow killer has a way to get around the map faster and her power design would be more compatible with a 115 killer, especially considering the fact she's slower makes her probably the most map reliant killer in the game, since playing tiles feels bad for her when she can't use her power.
I think balancing her around 115% speed would be healthier considering the direction this game has been taking with maps lately. But I see the point for keeping her 110 though, she's absolutely terrifying in the maps where she can use her power at will. I don't think her being faster is a balance necessity, it's more of a consistency/design issue.
Like, back when she could legitimately get cross map shots in most maps I get why that change would break her, but even wide open maps like McMillan's are just clusters of trees now. That's not the world we live in anymore.
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@NullEXE said:
- Not the killer's job to make sure you have fun.
- Not the killer's job to teach you better perks, how to play the game, or map layouts.
- Not the killer's job to teach you how to counter the killer's they play.
- Not the killer's fault that the other survivors saved you without perks to ensure safe unhooks.
- Not the killer's fault that the other survivors saved you without ensuring the killer was distracted elsewhere.
I can go on, but that looks like a good stopping point.
Here, have your "part of the problem" badge. Wear it proudly.
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In what world is making generators hard to find a good idea? You guys really want to stomp bad survivors harder while still losing to good survs huh?
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@miotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060312#Comment_1060312
I guess with the state of killer right now maybe they wanted to feel more in control (which the killer should feel in this game). It just sucks to be on the receiving end of it.
This has nothing to do with the state of killer now or ever. People have facecamped since this game's inception. The fact that they did it with Nurse in a game where they got a down before a single gen popped shows this is an attitude problem, not a game problem.
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There is one hard killer to play in this game, even at a basic level. That's Nurse. She has a high skill floor and ceiling.
There are a few more killers that are easier to learn the basics but hard to master at their full potential. Huntress, Demo, Billy and Oni come to mind.
There are killers that are mechanically easy but have some aspect of strategic gameplay that makes them hard in different ways to play at a high level. Those are Trapper and Hag. Sure you can just play Trapper as Man with Machete but you need good trap placements to even stand a chance vs good survs (you'll probably lose anyway cause he;s week but ok)
Besides those killers I listed, there's nothing else hard to play in this game. Spirit's skill floor is just a tad higher than general M1 killer skill floor but once you understand how her power works her ceiling gets extremely low.
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The static field was just a passive buff the killer needed to do nothing to achieve, and it had readability problems for survivors too. Static blast is simultaneously more powerful and easier to understand.
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i have played over 1000 killer hours on PC, mostly in red ranks (not that it matters) and I've only run into good squads like that twice, maybe three times. Maybe the console experience is different though.
EDIT and yeah I know 4man SWF is more common than that, most of them are just downright garbage at the game though.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
1) Remove the Light Poles
With these things it is too easy to find generators in open maps. The Light Poles should be removed to make finding generators more challenging.
2) Make generators harder to repair.
Increase the Skill Check trigger chance on generators. The chance of Skill Check's triggering while repairing depends on the situation:
- When looking in the direction of the generator in a 45 degrees cone - Skill Check's trigger chance is 15%.
- When not looking in the direction of the generator in a 45 degrees cone - Skill Check's trigger chance is 25%.
Progression bonus granted for succeeding Great Skill Checks should be reduced from 2% to 0.4%, or from 1.6 charges to 0.32 charges. (0.32 charges - is the same progression Survivors gain for succeeding Healing great skill checks).
3) Nerf Toolboxes
Coming soon.
4) Decrease the maximum distance between generators spawning in the trial.
To make huge maps less awful for Killers.
1) can't agree with that. There's no reason why generators should be challenging to find.That's just a change that would punish bad survivors, who already struggle, and do virtually nothing to competent survivors. The main reason why indoor maps were killer sided in the first place is new players not being able to find stuff (except for Hawkins that's just a terrible map overall).
2) I can see that being an okay change yeah.
4) just shrink the maps. No reason to have an ocean of a map with gens clumped together and a wasteland of nothingness around them, only thing that would happen is the killer having to chase people too far away from generators which would probably do more harm than good.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060252#Comment_1060252
Moving at 110% means the Killer has very little fundamentals. It takes longer to travel, takes longer to chase, takes longer to down. Just being 5% slower doesn't sound like much, but it makes a real difference. Try it yourself. Play Huntress or Spirit without using their powers for a couple of games. Then do it again with a 115% Killer.
Without that 5% a Killer MUST depend on his power. If that power isn't good, then that Killer isn't either. That's why I don't like slow Killers even if they are among the best in DbD.
No fundamentals, nothing to fall back on if/when your power fails.
That's exactly the problem I have with slow killers as well. When so much of your power budget needs to be funneled into one thing, you tend to be a polarizing character.
We've had plenty of amazing designs last year with regular movespeed killers and that's the direction I think they should follow going forward.
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@FleshTorpedo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059969#Comment_1059969
Its almost like generators get done fairly fast and killers need to slow down the game to have a chance. I know its a crazy idea.
Slowdown builds are absolutely overkill on Freddy, he has zero need for them.
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I mean the current 110 killers are Huntress (who shouldn't be 110 in the first place), Hag (the most unpopular killer in the game) and Spirit (absolutely terrible design) so I hope not. Making killers that are slower than the standard speed means that they need an extremely strong power to be viable, which ends up with abominations like the Spirit or the Nurse.
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Spirit is NOT a hard killer to play. People say a lot about Billy but he has a higher floor AND ceiling than her.
I no longer say she carries bad players though because that's Freddy's job now. He's even easier and almost as powerful.
The only ~but~ here is that she struggles when sounds are as screwed up as they are now, but when sounds work properly there's no working around a good Spirit in chases. Even Iron Will might get you off the hook once but she doesn't need to hear your grunts of pain, there are other sounds in the game.
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Thank God that`s never gonna happen, at least not without compensation nerfs elsewhere.
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Most competitive games don't get boring for everyone when both sides are playing optimally though. The fact that this is a casual game makes it even worse.
I don't pick zoners in fighting games when I'm versing my buddies in a casual setting. When i'm playing competitively I might. DBD isn't competitive so I get where people are coming from. I don't complain about it too much because I don't take the game too seriously.
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There's not even a way that your math adds up it's literally impossible
Besides, here's a list of red rank viable killers when played properly, considering "red ranks" and "good players" are a very different thing:
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037724#Comment_1037724
Just a nitpick, I run spine chill and I’m quite an aggressive survivor.
Maybe your experience is different, but from my experience that would make you the exception, not the rule.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037632#Comment_1037632
The SWF escape rate is (or at least was nine months ago) only about 3-7% higher than that of solo players. So it's not likely that with an escape-based ranking system, they would be dominating the higher ranks.
As for people who hide in the corner with a key, sure they might escape sometimes, but because they're probably not actually good at the game, if they do get found they will almost certainly die. Stealthing the entire game just to escape without doing anything is a lot harder than it sounds, as anyone who has struggled with last Tome's Spine Chill or "Escape as Claudette" challenges can attest. There is a reason that aggressive play is the meta, and that's because it's far more reliable than stealth against a good killer.
So even if people were able to occasionally escape using that method, over time it would balance out and the people escaping the most would actually be the players who are best at surviving. Just like how bad killers can fluke their way to a 4K and excellent killers can flub their way to a 0K, but over time, the good killers will average out the highest killrates.
The point about intentionally deranking is the only real issue I can see, but it's not like people don't already just die as quickly as possible in order to derank with the current system. So at the very least, it wouldn't make the problem any worse.
Just a nitpick, I have a gripe with the "aggressive play is meta" comment. Sure, maybe for content creators and stuff, but half (if not more) of the survivors I find in my red rank games are immersed Spine Chill/Urban Evasion gamers. Since that's probably the easiest way to rank up, I'd call that the "meta".
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037467#Comment_1037467
While I do agree that it's too easy to pip as a survivor, I don't think that the stealth component of Evader should be nerfed, since that would just amplify the problem I already have with the emblem system - namely, the fact that it railroads players into a particular playstyle and discourages them from branching out with their builds and tactics.
Here's the thing though. There are two things that essentially separate good survivors from bad survivors: decision making and running the killer around. Stealth may be fun for some people, but it has an extremely low skill cap AND ceiling. I wouldn't mind people getting into red ranks by never hiding, but people getting into red ranks while being bad at chases is a really big problem, and as long as the stealth component is still as huge as it is that problem will never be solved.
Ranking systems are supposed to evaluate skill, especially in a game with win conditions as subjective as DBD. High rank survivors absolutely need to perform in chases and make good decisions, and a system that rewards hiding over surviving chases stops that from happening.
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@Fibijean said:
As you pointed out yourself, though, there are some situations in which it is a sign of success, which is what the system is designed to recognise. Bear in mind that someone who didn't get hooked all game because they were useless and just hid the entire time, while they might get a good Unbroken emblem, will do very badly in all of the other three categories and depip as a result. However, someone who didn't get hooked because they outplayed the killer really well will score highly in both Evader and Unbroken at the very least, and will likely be rewarded for it with a pip. The system needs to be analysed as a whole, not just in terms of each individual emblem, in order to make accurate conclusions about how well-deserved its rewards are.
Having said that, I do think that the ranking system is very heavily flawed and needs to be changed fundamentally, but for very different reasons.
I agree with what you're saying to an extent. However, it's a fact that red ranks are full of survivors who just hide and do gens, never being chased. You can pip fairly easily playing like that, since the Evader emblem has a "stealth" component, and it gives A LOT of points. I'm convinced that component should either stop existing altogether or get significantly nerfed.
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Oh yes, I agree. Instead of working properly 20% of the time like it already does in dedicated servers it should work properly only 5% of the time. Too op plz nerf
No survivor perk besides DS interaction with lockers should be nerfed right now.
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I think it should come down to nerfing absurd setups. A lot of windows are way too strong, and some tile combinations can also be a nightmare. But one thing that I think may be controversial is the amount of pallets. Mediocre survivors can get away with dropping pallets early a lot of the time, and that's something I dislike about their new map philosophy. Putting dozens of safe pallets in a map encourages both pallet camping and bloodlusting which isn't very skillful imo. I think they should do more of the maze tiles while also having fewer pallets and nerfing the structures that can spawn next to one another. That way efficient survivors still get rewarded by chaning safe and unsafe structures and saving pallets without having OP setups, and bad survivors can actually get punished for wasting pallets.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
I'm sorry, wasn't it on it's last legs during Last Breath?
Wasn't it on it's last legs when F13 came out?
Wasn't it on it's last legs when Last Year was announced?
Wasn't it on it's last legs they withheld all updates to focus on updating the engine?
Wasn't it on it's last legs when the universal pallet break buff came out and drove survivors away?
Wasn't it on it's last legs when the End Game Collapse Came out?
I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?
We're talking about the doomers who insist on making these posts everytime a change they don't like happens in spite of 2019 being the most succesful year in the game's history playerbase wise and this month having even more players on average than any other month, ever.
But yeah killer exodus dead game yadda yadda