esarraf
esarraf
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@Bloodraven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/470365/queue-times
It's mostly down to Surviver entitlement.
No one wants to solo q only for one of their team mates to quit at the slightest inconvenience.
First hit d/c
Hates the map d/c
Hates the killer d/c
Messes up a loop d/c
Killer so much as farts in their direction d/c
Left on the ground longer than 10 seconds d/c
This is 80% of survivor issues.
Could this have anything to do with the fact that there's no comeback mechanics for survivors at all and getting a really bad map with a strong killer and an early down means a gg 99/100 times?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103024#Comment_4103024
At no point did I say I wanted to see ANYTHING in the lobby, but if your going to suggest perk specific counterplay then there has to be a way to identify the perk in the MATCH at least. Even if I brought Ultimate weapon for example specifically to counter this perk, it doesnt help if I dont know which of the 4 survivors has it until the score screen.
Ultimately incase you forgot how this conversation started... Similar to Nurse which hypothetically could be unstoppable if the player controlling her never made a mistake and played like a machine, Hyperfocus similarly is only being kept in check by player skill with skillchecks. It COULD have drastically higher success, but player skill is the deciding factor. Ppl failing to hit greats is the only reason its not having much higher escape rates.
Dude, just bring pain res. This is getting pathetic. And no, hyperfocus is not the equivalent of nurse.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103017#Comment_4103017
Just had a game where it popped up with no toolbox. The entire loadout is perks that the killer has no way of identifying funny enough, although I guess 5 moves ahead can be guessed if you really pay attention to the pallet toss.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OY59BCDOOELR/1000002437.jpg
Cool, so your still just gonna say you want to be able to see all survivor perk loadouts in the lobby or do you have an actual point?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103005#Comment_4103005
My point was I wouldn't know the perk was in play and who has it until the score screen. Im suppose to keep interrupting THAT guy, but the perk has no tell or animation that its being used.
As mentioned previously, scream builds, gen regression, gen blocking, and builds that make skill checks harder. You don't even need to know who is running it. Like just run grim or pain res and you are already countering it. Seriously I don't get what your problem is here. If your issue seriously comes down to them not having a tell, I'll clue you in. They have toolboxes, because it's utter garbage without a toolbox.
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Off the top of my head?
Potential Energy, I love the concept of this perk but I think the stacks you should be able to hold needs to be increased to like 40 or 50. I love the idea of being able to be sneaky and punish killers who only protect the three gen for the whole game.
Circle of healing, it's just trash now, seriously I think besides illumination this is hands down the weakest boon there is. Which is a shame because it used to be good and worth the investment of setting it up but now it's just a joke. At the very least it should impact self healing speed like botany.Deadline - like the idea of it but needing to be injured for just an extra 10% skillcheck chance is insanely dumb. Just remove the injury condition so it could be at least a little bit more useful.
Both Invocations - Seriously just remove the permanent broken effect and give them some numbers buffs. Maybe like 13~16% for weaving spider and make crows give everyone the effect of no longer triggering crows.
Specialist/chest perks in general - I really like the idea of chest builds. But the devs really need to stop being scared of making them usable. I think that doubling the value from each chest perk would be perfectly fine. -
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102999#Comment_4102999
So your counter for the perk that im not allowed to know is in play is to keep interrupting the survivor that I dont know has the perk while at the same time building stacks for Huntress lullaby in the hope it isn't cleansed. I need to do this BEFORE you get skillchecks.
Oh so you'd also be fine with survivors knowing in advance what killer they are going against since they also aren't allowed to know who it is until it's too late or are you gonna gonna not say anything now that you realize how bad your argument is?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102913#Comment_4102913
Theres no perk that a killer has that effects great skillchecks or can make them harder.
… Huntresses Lullaby
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102826#Comment_4102826
The devs already DO provide perks that are hard to use, provides massive benefits and has no actual counter. Hyperfocus for example has no actual counterplay the killer can do to prevent you from using it. Its 100% on your end if you get that benefit.
Hyperfocus has the counters of scream builds, gen regression, gen blocking, and builds that make skill checks harder. There's no perk that survivors have that is an automatic win if you are just that good like killers have with nurse.
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Wow, you really want killer que times to go from ten minutes to twenty.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102672#Comment_4102672
???? look dude i agree that the balance team has been literal snails and deaf when it comes to improving the solo q experience properly, especially feedback FROM the actual solo q players like me, but you legit said in your original post that swf ALSO is barely playable, just like solo q, that was the part where i said A) i wonder what side you play most, and B) you were right about solo q, just not swf.
the strongest killers (blight, nurse, etc) make the rest of the killer role feel very noticeably weaker, and it can be seen through the several years of balancing the game around killers like nurse and blight, when it never should have been. this has made solo q feel unnecessarily worse to play because most newer players will only be seeing the strongest killers as survivors because the newer killers or just some killers in general will feel they have more impact with the stronger killers, causing affected survivor players to not know how to play against heroes like onryo or skull merchant.
Yeah… swf is also bad. Maybe you should try looking at the latest statistics released. The escape rates are not much better than soloq. Survivor both soloq and swf is in a bad spot right now. And killers have been feasting for the last several years. Dracula, Henry, and now Jason are all A tier killers and Jason is easily S tier.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102634#Comment_4102634
The thing with THAT is everytime the release the numbers on killrates, Nurse ISNT at the top for any MMR ranking. Her position on tier lists is based off ppl's idea of potential capabilities rather than how she's actually performing, which ends up leading to killers like Pig out performing her on average. Until the numbers show that she's an unstoppable monster you cant escape from without handicapping, they arnt going to add handicapping to further lower her killrates.
I think that's a bad idea though. Like, let's say the devs added a perk that was hard for survivors to use but guaranteed they win and there's nothing the killers can do and if they fail the survivor dies instantly. The results would show the survivors who use it die a lot but ultimately it'd be broken since there's nothing the other side can actually do to counter it.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102737#Comment_4102737
What mechanic would those be?
How about anti tunnel features since apparently up until yesterday you thought that the devs implemented all the anti tunnel features they never pushed to live.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102674#Comment_4102674
Time doesnt equal skill. And im sorry I actually look into games and study patch notes to see what's changes from when I last payed back on 2020 and there is a pattern of the devs not understanding data as well calling pallet density a "quality of life" change when its objectively a buff to survivors and a nerf to killers. I also dont care what some no body on the forms says about me they dont know me so it doesnt matter what they say.
Time equals experience, and given you have confirmed with your comments you lack knowledge on basic game mechanics I'd say your skill is questionable at best.
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@malloymk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102567#Comment_4102567
This. And it could be adjusted each 30 days based on their data. No brainer. Yet, hasn't happened in 10 years. Just killer power creep.
"Why doesn't anyone play the old killers?!"
Well, because all new killers have multiple powers that the older killers have. Duh.
Yeah seriously that'd be such a good idea. Imagine the game being balanced every month like that. Truly insane.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102629#Comment_4102629
You havent played killer and its clear and even unsafe pallets when yiu have 20 of them are still alot of time saved. And ya they are removing 5 second from the endurance and haste for 10 second of elusive the strongest statis on survivor and the reason is survivors were using the endurance aggressively to body block then complaining when they got "tunneled" as well killer is having perks nerfed and survivor is getting more buffs.
Lol, sorry buddy but you are getting called out by multiple people for being brand new. Maybe try understanding more basic game mechanics and the history of the game before you make posts. Or just ask more questions, I promise you that it'll be less embarrassing than whatever… that is.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102627#Comment_4102627
you were only right about solo Q, other than that, just dead wrong. SWF has always been stronger than solo Q and honestly? it always will be until solo Q gets the changes it needs.
I know? SWF has always been stronger than solo q that's not what I was talking about.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102567#Comment_4102567
This makes more sense then the current iteration for the pallets. Gen speeds not so much.
Except certain killers (nurse) ignores 99% of pallets so you need something else. Or ideally just reworking nurse to be like oni where she has to work for her broken power.
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@Dem34888 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102376#Comment_4102376
I can agree that playing solo is difficult because there are 4 random people with different playstyles and gameplay perspectives, but calling SWF barely playable is something new. Even if you're bad at playing the survivor, you have all the information about the map and the killer's position without info perks, and being able to communicate on Discord isn't that hard, you know?
The most problematic are fully coordinated SWFs with meta perks, they create a huge gap between solo/casual swfs and killers. Against them, you have to work your ass off, and they discourage most people from playing at all. Not all killers in this game are sweaty nerds who have studied the game inside and out.
Regarding the topic, there might also be a summer factor, in addition to the new killer. People are on vacation and spending time elsewhere, so que times take longer than usual, or people prefer to hide from the heat and come back to play in the evening/night when the heat subsides.
Do… do you not hear yourself when you type? Needing to be in a fully coordinated swf on discord using only the most meta perks to be able to play the game is ass. Sure you are going to have a better experience than a solo q but that does not mean it's going to be good, just not complete ass.
Like even the worst killers in the game can just camp and tunnel to secure at minimum a kill or two depending on their loadout but to counter this survivors have to be sweaty nerds who have studied the game inside and out. It's bad and it should change. -
@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102376#Comment_4102376
You have to be joking right? Anti tunnel changes pallet density but because the nerf a perk that hasn't been changed in 9 years the devs balance for killer. The devs balance of fairydust because they nerf things in weird ways that dont address problems leave game breaking bugs in the game for years.
Are you a bot? They canceled all the Anti tunnel changes except for a few exta seconds of endurance that they just came out in saying they want to remove next update and the pallets are hot garbage. In case you are brand new to the game the pallets are very unsafe, which would be fine if the devs did not literally bend over backwards to gift killers free kills by making hit registration only matter on killers side. There may be slightly more pallets but they are weaker and largely unsafe due to as previously mentioned all the free kills the devs decided killers need.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102376#Comment_4102376
hmmm i wonder what role you play the most
Cool, does not make me wrong.
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@ChucksterMainin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102446#Comment_4102446
Legion main enters the room you dont speak for me, killers are strong right now. I only ever lose if it is a strong 3-4 stack other than that pretty easy.
Truthfully I think it'd be best if maps and things like pallet count and generator speed was determined by killers so if you play a broken ass like Jason or Nurse you get all pallets and sixty seconds but if you play a normal balanced killer you get regular stuff.
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
’ugh this game is so killer sided smh’
We, objectively, just had THE most survivor biased game mode in history which only a handful of killers were good (but still boring in).
Chaos shuffle and lights out are returning with changes that only serve to screw over killers that have meme add ons (padded jaws trapper being an example for chaos shuffle) or in the case of lights out giving survivors free windows of opportunity essentially nullifying the point of the event and breaks the dark spooky immersion of the game mode.
But yeah let’s push the narrative that killers get what they want all the time while ignoring the facts, like a certain tall Brazilian woman getting soft removed from the game for over a year because of all the complaining surrounding her from people who’d rather DC than actually learn to play.Lol, dude don't act like a temporary and optional event matters for game balancing.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102422#Comment_4102422
Which certain perks counter sabotaging?
Iron Grasp and Agitation are fairly hard counters, Hangman's trick, mad grit, and Awakened Awareness will also typically counter it. This feels like a trick question.
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Ehh… I like the idea but I feel like that'll just lead to the devs saying they made bad perks viable by slapping random recovery effects on it.
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No you don't understand. We need to nerf survivors more so killers will play something other than broken overpowered killers. They totally just won't keep playing stupidly broken killers.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102219#Comment_4102219
What does gen rushing has to do with this?
Okay in this game there's very few things survivors can actually do besides generators. Sabotaging hooks is one of those things and is already a very risky play since it can be countered by perks, certain killer powers, and slugging. By saying hook density should be high to the point where it's actually impossible like on the Fazbear map for example you are saying essentially that survivors should just spend more time on generators instead of sabotaging hooks or interacting with the killer. Now if you are okay with genrushing I can understand your viewpoint. It's simply most killer mains don't understand this when they advocate for things like nerfs to boons or sabotoging that by making alternative objectives so weak they become pointless you are asking for gens to go faster.
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The devs over the last several years made playing survivor hot garbage for solo q and barely playable for a full swf.
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Same reason why they kept in stuff like no mither and invocations for survivor I guess.
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@cogsturning said:
Having a constant stream of new members means we have the same threads over and over every week or month. It gets tedious, so people just downvote instead of repeating themselves endlessly. The way people say things also matters. One sentence posts say nothing. Aggressive tones will also get you downvoted. Plenty of people will downvote any take against their preferred role, or any person who they already don't like. The voting is half popularity contest so if you roll up hot and angry, or you're established and people already feel some way about you, the votes can be more about the person than the take.
Wow, you managed to perfectly prove your point by taking no real side but getting three downvotes lol.
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@SpyUA said:
Subo squads and majority of the time I can hook only one survivor in the area cuz of lack of hooks (I cannot reach to another hook without the survivors wiggling off) so I need to leave the survivors (slugging is evil, isn't it?), you are basically asking for more slugging.
And by rejecting this out of the gate you are saying survivors should gen rush more.
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Probably partially due to the fact that Artist is already an A tier killer who does not need any buffs. But also just due to the building resentment from killers always getting their way as shown with the latest nerfs to survivors and the devs deciding to make tunneling easier for whatever reason. It just makes it that even when good points about weaker killers are brought up the resentment just means people automatically downvote out of spite.
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Yeah I think it's best at this point to only play during the events.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101366#Comment_4101366
So you do believe she has counter play. That goalpost moved quickly.
Maps are meant to be to the benefit or detriment of the players according to random selection. That is a level of 'chaos' the dev's intend. Some maps are meant to be unfair to you, by intentional design. What you're referring to is intended balancing.
Aura perks I won't comment on - I obviously can't show you that nurse can't use an aura perk, that's a bad faith request.Bros counterplay is be lucky and hack to disable her perks.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101269#Comment_4101269
Again, with the incendiary and unproductive dismissals. You haven't presented a counter-argument. You joined this thread, so far as I can tell, to just dismiss people rather than actually discuss anything.
As to your question, that has nothing to do with what I said. Not in the slightest. But to answer the question all the same, because forums are for discussions not hopping in and dismissing people out of hand with a holier-than-thou attitude, no that would not be fine with me. You are describing something that is both ridiculously hard to do, as well as having no counter-play. That means there is no interaction there what-so-ever.
If your strawman example is supposed to be a comparison to Nurse, whereas you presented a single perk rather than a kit, there are counter-plays to Nurse. There is interaction with Nurse.
Yes, a very good Nurse is a very difficult thing to face and has a strong presentation on overcoming you, that doesn't mean she suddenly 'has no counter-play.' If you learn and employ her counter-play at a level of skill equal to the skill the Nurse player is presenting, you can win. If your argument is in regards to the best Nurse players, I'd invite you to watch more competitive games to see what play looks like at the level you are referring to.
If your argument is 'being ridiculously hard to do doesn't mean it should be so strong' then I disagree. This would apply to Nurse and Ghoul and so on, as well as high-end SWF play. The top 1% of players of a given thing are not the basis on which a game is balanced. This is why competitive SWF's don't result in perks getting obliterated into obscurity. The top 1% of players are not stable balancing parameters.
So let me ask you the question this way:
If the statistics aren't good enough to prove it to you, what would be sufficient evidence for you? What evidence would you accept as proof that Nurse is not without counter-play?Sure, show me how nurse can't use aura perks and is not entirely reliant on map rng for counterplay.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101252#Comment_4101252
So you're getting dumpstered by bad Nurses so badly that you think anyone can win just by playing Nurse and that she has no counterplay? Or do you just give up as soon as you hear the Nurse's first screech?
It also sounds like you've never played a game as Nurse because it certainly isn't easy, especially against good survivors.
That's what I'm getting from you coming up with this ridiculous hypothetical scenario.
Perhaps you need to get good.
Lol, imagine actually defending nurse in 2026.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100778#Comment_4100778
Nurse is fine, according to the statistics of BHVR. Her Kill-rate is garbage. People on these forums consistently tell us Nightlight is not useful, and we are to depend on BHVR's official statistics - those statistics list Nurse at a sub-par kill rate.
If you have a problem with Nurse, I assume you mean only the high MMR Nurse Mains. If that's the case, that's a niche of a niche.
Show me the killer that has above a 65% kill rate, and I will agree with you that there are overpowered killers. 60% Kill rate is the goal of the developers, meaning 60% +-5% are categorically not overpowered. Nurse is, statistically, not there. Nor is ghoul. Nor is Jason. This is the same logic used to judge whether perks are categorically overpowered by selection rate and escape rate.
I'm not saying the killers are well-balanced, they aren't, but the acerbic dismissal isn't necessary or constructive to the threads point of conversation. Your opinion isn't more or less valid than anyone else's here. Arriving simply to insult and dismiss others is not conducive to a community conversation.Okay let's say hypothetically the devs release a survivor perk that's something dumb like the killer instantly dies if you pull off some ridiculously hard thing that only the best survivors could accomplish but had no real counterplay from the killers would this be fine to you?
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One of the worst parts of the devs releasing broken killer after broken killer is it makes people think that balanced killers are weak and need buffs.
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There's totally too many pallets guys. We should remove even more pallets to make up for this.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100684#Comment_4100684
What killers are broken and overpowered?
Looking at kill rates no killers are actually broken and overpowered. Who's actually overpowered and why? Tier lists put Nurse at the top but her kill rate is in the dumpster because her skill floor is so high. I love playing against Nurses because I know how to run them and they are usually terrible. Blight is better off but he isn't broken or overpowered.
I guess a garbage analogy was the best you can do because now you have to resort to insults. My posts are quite reasonable compared to your emotional two line responses.
Bruh actually thinks nurse is fine. Alright you are done, have a good rest of your life.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100637#Comment_4100637
Is that the best you can do? A garbage analogy?
I said it would the best boon. So you think all boons are garbage then?
Perks, especially survivor perks, should be balanced. There shouldn't be one perk that's on all the time attached to a mobile source (a survivor) that buffs almost all of the exhausting perks and many more perks besides that and debuffs many killer perks and killer powers. All for the cost of a single survivor perk slot when a team of survivors can bring 16 perks.
Boon: Vigil would still be powerful without needing to be 200% (your only suggestion). Surely you can actually come up with an argument as to why it'd be "so awful it's essentially gone", preferably in a reply that takes more than two sentences.
Lol, survivors should be balanced but killers are A okay being broken and overpowered. I just can't with you. Like do you not hear yourself before you type something out?
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100575#Comment_4100575
So passive aggressive.
It'd be more balanced than the current Vigil we have now. At least survivors would have to do more than equip Sprint Burst and Vigil to be able to pre-run off their gen as soon as they spot the killer or hear the terror radius and repeat the cycle every 30 seconds while the killer targets their teammates.
Lol that's like saying removing Jason and Nurse would be more balanced than what we have now. The goal of balancing something should not be making it so awful it's essentially gone.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100567#Comment_4100567
66% is a high recovery rate already. At 66% an exhaustion perk recovers in 24 seconds instead of 40. That's far from "nearly worthless."
If Vigil were a boon it'd be the best boon in the game.
Man I bet you think illumination is strong too. I seriously can't believe you think this would be a balanced change, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100454#Comment_4100454
I disagree with you that a 24m static Vigil boon with either a 4 second or lingering effect (standard for already existing boons, part of my last post ignored) is nearly as useful as a mobile 16m always on perk with a 15 second linger.
I don't think the stacking is an issue because we already see players running quad boon builds and it's a huge tradeoff that I am fine with. A survivor has to have skills like Ayrun to survive long with a build like that. Resetting boons is also a major tradeoff as they have to travel to and from the totem and spend 14 seconds blessing it. Only a few totem locations on certain maps are really strong such as upstairs in Ironworks of Misery, Eyrie of Crows or downstairs in the Temple of Purgation, almost all other totem locations are barely an inconvenience for a killer to find and snuff.
I do think boons should get a change, such as the blessing time increasing every time they bless a totem, perhaps by 5 to 10 seconds each time.
But even with every bless being 14 seconds I don't see how making Vigil a boon could be considered a buff. In the matches I play and observe boons aren't up even a third of the time whereas current Vigil is always on.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100546#Comment_4100546
200%? That would mean survivors would recover their exhaustion perks in under 14 seconds inside the zone. I think that's too much. Especially when they could be working on a gen, opening a chest or healing in the zone.
Yeah, you are making it nearly worthless, it'd have to be an extremely high recovery rate.
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I think if you make it 200% recovery it could work as a boon.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100288#Comment_4100288
events alter the regular queue usually filtering out the casuals so only "dbd players" are playing normal mode.
So… they are complaining they are being qued with people on their skill level instead of newbies that they can easily crush?
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I never get people like you. You say the event is terrible and in the same sentence that you were playing it. Like you do not know the regular game is still available?
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@Elan said:
To be honest I believe that Invocations have potential in the current form. Just need a few tweaks.
Weaving spiders
→ After 60s ritual is performed and all gens (even blocked ones) will be reduced by 10 charges. Survivor who performed the invocation will for the rest of the trial suffer 25 % decrease speed action to repair, healing, cleasing, blessing, searching and rummaging.
Treacherous Crows
→ After performing ritual every time killer is in survivor radius and scare crows the killer will be revealed for 4s, prevents survivors from scaring crows. Survivor who performed the ritual will suffer oblivious for the rest of the trial.
Wow, you really did solve it immediately.
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People are gonna hate on you but yeah some perks straight up should be banned for some killers. Like we all hated on nurse for making awakened awareness garbage but killer mains are so blind that they don't realize it'd make them stronger by allowing the devs to make better perks if they don't have to worry about edge cases with certain killers.
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To be honest, yeah. If they just brought back the old version where you could reassure someone multiple times it'd be strong enough to solve camping and tunneling maybe forever without being too powerful. Sadly the devs changed that.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099196#Comment_4099196
Nurse I agree onm although I have no idea how. Blight was nerfed and apart from double speed add ons I believe he's mostly fine. Ghoul is in good spot atm, he's not oppressive as he used to be and his free hit and free hit from leap cancel is something not particulary strong, just annoying. If Ghoul should've get further changes, I'd make holding power window shorter and rework Yamori mask and cempetide and that's it. Jason is not very strong, he just promotes the most boring gameplay comparable to old skull merchant. While he can get free hits from 2000 broken pallets on the map, Spirit can do that too. I'm more annoyed from his free tracking because I reckon that killer with heavy infinite mobility, nearly permanent haste and insane projectile truly doesn't need free tracking on top of that. Imagine if Spirit has dried cherry blossom basekit, wouldve been nerfed immidiately.
I don't think I can have a productive conversation with someone who genuinely thinks ghoul is okay and Jason is not very strong. You simply don't know enough about the game to understand problematic killers and why they are bad for the game.