dugman
dugman
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2931523#Comment_2931523
How on earth does someone manage to last only 20-40 seconds against an m1 killer? I mean against the good killers I get it fully but against something like sadako and ghostface, they have to be trolling at that point.
Regarding undetectable I already asumed people were using cover when I made my observation, once you know its a stealth killer they wont surprise you for the remaining of thr match maybe the first survivor can get jumped but if you already know its a ghostface there is no excuse to get surprised by him.
You don’t even have to believe me on the 60 second thing, pull up any game from any streamer playing a basic attack killer and track the seconds between when the survivor starts running and when either the killer gets a hit or a pallet is dropped. The solid streamers get it in 15-30 seconds typically. I’m not as good as they are and I do about 20-40 seconds. (I even did this experiment myself just now, pulled up a random recent Ghost Face video on RedsGamingGears, his chases were all in the 10-30 second range). 60 seconds average between when the survivor runs and a pallet or hit means the killer messed up probably. And that makes sense, if it took you literally a minute to even get a pallet drop you’d be spending three or four minutes just getting your first down which obviously is never the case unless the killer is really screwing up.
And you can assume people are using cover but I know for a fact I see a lot of people on streams not using cover well as a killer.
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Pyramid Head because his Cages and Trails are fun. 🙂
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It would be interesting to see a data pull of a bunch of games from a survivor player tracking how many killers ran Corrupt Intervention and what the kill rates are with and without it, and likewise with some other popular killer perks. A couple months back someone posted 400 games they had as killer and tracked survivor stats and it had some interesting stats you could pivot out of it, I’d love to see something similar from a survivor player.
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2931480#Comment_2931480
Undetectable only works on oblivious people, not the ones with the status effect actual oblivious people, and regarding chase yes m1 killers can force some pallets or get hits but for that to happen the loop has to be incredibly unsafe or the survivor has to mess up, you will prop down them eventually but if they arent throwing they should las at least a minute in chase.
You’re wrong about it only working on clueless people. I catch otherwise good survivors all the time when I’m Undetectable. You just have to use cover on approaches to block lines of sight. A common mistake killers make when Undetectable is just coming straight in toward generators and such. You’re not invisible, you just can’t be heard as easily. So you need to use cover on approach to get as close as possible before being spotted. Also sidestepping toward the spot mitigates the alerts from Spine Chill. You won’t get grabs on people paying attention but you can definitely get close enough to make the ensuing chase very short.
And no, chases do not last 60 seconds on average unless the killer is messing up. My chases are more like 20-40 seconds typically with normal killers between when the survivor starts running and the pallet drop or hit. A 60 second chase is a sign you messed up as killer.
P.S. To clarify, I mean 20-40 seconds until either a hit or a pallet drop. In the beginning of the match you obviously get a lot of pallet drops initially versus hits.
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I’ve played him a few times and couldn’t tell for sure on the reveals being easier to do for the survivors. I did notice that the extra Marked duration where it now lasts 60 seconds did get me a few extra downs. Basically once you Mark someone it’s like having Haunted Grounds on them in that it lasts so long there’s a decent chance after Marking someone from a distance that you can run into them 20-30 seconds later and get an easy down. Which means you don’t have to rely as much on 99% finishing a Mark on a target and then tapping it when you’re already in chase, you can actually Mark early and ambush later.
As far as reveals go, I’m guessing the devs are probably monitoring how the new Ghostface is playing with the new reveals and if it seems like he’s getting revealed too often or too easily they could tweak it a bit. Some of it though could be some people simply not being as stealthy as they think, I’ve definitely seen a few streamers playing stealth killers who don’t use cover on approaches and just walk straight toward where survivors are like they’re invisible.
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@calem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2929673#Comment_2929673
Ok? Thanks for you input?
You’re welcome
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2930339#Comment_2930339
Or hear me out they can just loop an m1 killer which is not rocket science, get dunked on ghostface!!!!
Except 1) he’s not just an M1 killer, he’s Undetectable most of the time which helps him get a hit prior to reaching a vault; and 2) even M1 killers can normally force a hit or pallet drop in a chase, if you’re getting infinitely looped all the time you’re doing something wrong.
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Saying he wasn't buffed at all isn't true, the extra duration on Marked is noticeable. I had a 4k with him last night in part because I was able to just Mark survivors and then catch up to them later on if they ran. It's like having Haunted Grounds on individual survivors with the 60 second duration. Yes, survivors who aren't marked yet can knock you out of it, but with the duration as long as it is now you can literally mark survivors from long range and then as long as you encounter them again in the next 60 seconds you can down them without worrying about them knocking you out of stealth.
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@Icaurs said:
What makes DBD extremely awful is how it has be been balanced. Survivor perks use to be insane and extremely strong. They are mainly perks that are available any player starting off and they are the best perks in the game. That's not to say the new survivor perks are bad, but the they are more balanced. By comparison the new killer perks are far stronger then the survivor perks, as killer perks have been getting stronger over time. So new killers will need to buy a lot of DLC to get the better perks, which will require far more time commitment the survivors.
So yeah the New DBD player experience is weird and awful.
I don't think "balance" has anything to do with this particular video. These were all streamers who had apparently never played Dead by Daylight before or barely played it at all playing against each other. Balance issue for perks only matter among veteran players who make few mistakes.
The biggest problem with this tournament is what is the deal with the tournament rules?? I can't even find a copy of the actual rules for this tournament at all anywhere on Google, and apparently they had a bunch of overly complicated rules on what they could use and do and all sorts of other nonsense that has nothing to do with just playing the game normally. Who in their right mind would think a tournament with a bunch of DbD newbies using ultra high level unofficial tournament nonsense perk bans and such was a good idea? 🙄
I didn't bother watching more than a bit of this video though, it's way too cheesy and some of the streamers seem pretty annoying.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927784#Comment_2927784
The problem that i -- and a lot of killer mains -- have with dead hard isnt that you can dodge a hit, its that you can use it to extend a chase and reach a pallet/ vault
The problem is it does both. Lunging for distance is definitely a great effect but on top of that its other effect of being able to become temporarily invulnerable is also good enough to be a perk in its own right and does come into play fairly often. Even people who primarily use the perk to lunge for distance do end up evading attacks with it too probably every match or two or three. And I know in my own matches and streamed matches I watch I often see Dead Hard used for both purposes.
So to me if they took away the invulnerability, and just left the distance, the perk would probably be more manageable. Yes, it would still have its stronger effect of the two, but it would nonetheless be a decent adjustment, especially against killers that have ranged attacks and lunges which the invulnerability is particularly good against. (And as a side benefit, it would presumably eliminate auto-dodge cheats.)
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It’s probably a backfill or just that killer being in queue a really long time. They have to eventually play somebody and if nobody is available in their bracket then it will ultimately just put them in the next avaialble match.
Another less likely possibility is they either stink at that particular killer (every killer character has an independent MMR so it’s entirely possible for someone to be great at some killers but lousy at others. I’m a decent killer overall but a total scrub with Nurse for instance.) Or that they throw a lot of matches to artificially lower their MMR.
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I guess if I was going to try and pick five killers I like to play that have somewhat different playstyles it might be
- Sadako (stealth and teleporting)
- Doctor (tracking)
- Bubba (instant downs)
- Clown (basic chases)
- Pyramid Head (unusual abilities and a bit of range)
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@calem said:
It was honestly so embarrassing to watch. Also imagine having streamers as big as Mizkif and Shroud screaming about how your game sucks. Hopefully this is a wake up call to BHVR
I had to Google who Mizkif is, I guess he was the guy throwing the chair? If he’s like that on streams I have no interest.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Was this a tournament organized by BHVR?
Usually the tournaments are run by some private people (Streamers or something like that) who make up their rules. Obviously DBD is no tournament game and the tournament-scene is pretty laughable.
That there was a huge pricepool indicates that it was probably not organized by BHVR.
The video didn’t really seem to explain anything about the tournament in the intro but from the logo and a Google search it was an AT&T event where streamers played five different video games, one of which was DbD. I have no idea how much involvement Behaviour had with the tournament, although it seems pretty likely their marketing department would have worked with AT&T on it in case people has questions about the game and to help promote it if they wanted. The super complicated tournament rules for DbD seem kind of bizarre to me though so I don’t know if Behaviour was involved in that part of it or not, that seems more like something from an unofficial tournament organizer. 🤷♂️
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Part of Victor’s benefit is he’s stealthier than a basic killer so if chase music started whenever he saw people it would make him noticeably weaker. I agree though that survivors and the Twins should get scoring events akin to chase events when Victor is actively chasing people.
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I’m a killer main so don’t have strong opinions on most of these. Just at a glance
- Detective’s Hunch - It feels like it’s already probably a decent perk, particularly to mitigate hexes and find Boon spots quickly. Also I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem for a perk to be made in such a way that it combos with a specific item like a map. Some perks are simply built to be more powerful when combined with other things and that’s ok. For example on the killer side Hex Undying is so-so by itself, but really good combined with other Hexes so is still a decent perk overall.
- Distortion is a perk that it would be interesting to be able to pivot out stats on escape rates of survivors that have versus those that don’t. It’s definitely possible that it’s a perk that gives you a big benefit sometimes but you never realize it happened. For example, say a killer is running BBQ as their only aura perk. You basically won’t be seen by the killer’s perk for the first four gens which could give you more freedom to work on gens the first 2/3 of the match. On the other hand if a killer is running an aura heavy build then it might use up its tokens really quickly, and if a killer has no aura reading it’s probably useless.
- Slippery Meat and Up the Ante and other things that somewhat increase the chance of pulling off a hook (e.g. anything increasing the Luck stat) just seem kind of worthless from my perspective. Even using those perks you still are almost always better off waiting for a rescue. The only ones that actually seem decent would be the ones that give you a guaranteed success. They really should consider revamping the whole luck thing all around.
- I’m not a fan of perks like We’re Going to Live Forever and BBQ and Chili and add-ons using bloodpoints as balancing mechanisms. I’d much rather see their benefits be things that actually directly impact the match itself then be extra currency to spend between matches.
- Does Urban Invasion actually need a buff? I see survivors running it pretty frequently, it seems like it’s already a decent perk.
- Take my thinking with a grain of salt but Smash Hit seems like a decent perk on paper. 4 extra seconds of boosted speed to gain distance after a stun is a massive extra gap between you and the killer. Especially if you’re adept at getting the stuns and maybe combine it with the new perk that hides your scratches and sounds after the killer is stunned it’s pretty much a total reset on the chase, even if you get a stun at an otherwise unsafe pallet. I’m just looking at it from the perspective of what would hurt me as a killer if it was done to me. 🤷♂️
- Why the revamp of Overcome? It seems like it’s ok as is. Straightforward benefit but not overly powerful.
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@Tiufal said:
Its quite fascinating while being completely hilarious, that killer players still have that common misconception, that they "outplayed" a survivor, who used his DH to get to a loop. You didnt. Not even a bit.
Yeah I’m a killer player and I think Dead Hard is probably the best survivor perk in the game and even I never say that. Using Dead Hard for distance is just part of the plan of the person running it typically. It’s like if I ran Coup De Grace to get extra distance on a lunge I’d otherwise have missed, or get a hit because I had a speed boost from Play With Your Food, if a survivor complained to me that “they outplayed me and that perk is the only reason I got the hit” I’d consider them a bad loser.
Make no mistake, I think Dead Hard needs a nerf because it looks like it’s statistically too strong, but if someone uses it to get to a loop you probably didn’t “outplay them”.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928884#Comment_2928884
Completely agree with everything you've said
I just worry that people who want more anti-exhaustion stuff forget that it would also effect people using perks like Lithe and such. Also Blood Echo might be a bit more bearable since the hemmorage buff, I've not had the chance to test it yet
And don't forget the newly buffed Legion, maybe they'll get some extra bang for their buck out of Blood Echo? 🤷♂️
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928829#Comment_2928829
That's just not true though, I'm sorry to say
Mindbreaker's exhaustion can be walked off in the middle of a chase very easily. Especially, once again against M1 killers.
All a survivor has to do is go around a corner or drop a pallet and there you go - their third health state is back. Hell I could make the argument it helps people using Sprint Burst more than it actually hinders them.
All exhaustion related addons have been nerfed, too - a change which while I agree with, limits options.
My opinion: Dead Hard is the problem, not exhaustion perks. Getting hit with a Lithe or a Balanced landing doesn't feel anywhere close to the level of cheap as DH does and I'm someone who thinks Dead Hard is borderline required against certain killers due to how oppressive their powers are.
I agree with you that Dead Hard is the only actually problematic exhaustion perk. Not that Sprint Burst and Lithe and such are bad, they're good perks, but Dead Hard is really two very good effects that could each be their own perk bundled into one mega perk. The distance effect alone is so strong many people post that that's the main reason they use it in the first place, but then on top of that it has that great extra benefit of being able to dodge attacks in case of emergency solely based on animations. Moreover the stats seem to indicate Dead Hard is not just the most popular survivor perk (almost half of survivors use it) but also there's seemingly a stronger correlation between Dead Hard and escapes than other popular meta perks too. Even the devs commented relatively recently that they weren't happy with Dead Hard's numbers after reviewing how it's functioning since hit validation went into effect, and it's pretty unusual for them to negatively comment on specific perks unless they're already seriously considering adjusting them.
That said, though, Exhaustion as an effect is obviously pretty handy since, regardless of Dead Hard, it can prevent any other Exhaustion perk from being used too. It would be nice to have at least one other perk that causes it than the two that currently exist, if only for variety sake. (And I might be wrong but Blood Echo definitely seems like it's on the weak side, at least on most killers.)
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Never got into hockey, even though I'm in Pittsburgh.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928208#Comment_2928208
So its just a coincidence the text listed it affecting lockers at the same time it was "bugged" and affected them? Come on...
No, I said the patch notes had the correct description of what the perk was supposed to be doing and the in-game version was bugged or maybe an early version from testing or something. So they expected the perk to be what's in the notes but accidentally left in something from a test build of it.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928198#Comment_2928198
So its a bug it said lockers AND affected the speed?
10 months ago same addons and same timeframe. Unless iron maiden got a buff that seems a bit fast.
Yes, if it affected lockers it was a bug. You can see in the original patch notes it wasn't supposed to.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928152#Comment_2928152
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910274. In this thread if you go to the last page you can see the proofs, and even videos when it shows it.
Now the question is what point in the timeline is right for thay Wraith's add-on, what the devs actually intended.
From my chat above with supersonic it looks like the original patch notes for Shadow Dance have the actual intended effect of the perk, but the perk itself had either a bad description or were a bad version of the perk. So it's not a nerf as much as an annoyingly incorrect description ingame of what it was supposed to be doing.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928178#Comment_2928178
Sorry the link didnt post the first time so i had to edit the thread to link the other one. My bad. Should be there now. But you did look at the right tofu video.
Thanks. And Mandy's reply matches what I said - that description apparently was a bug and the original patch notes had the actual description of the ability
It's never been intended that Shadow Dance blood opens lockers faster - it says clearly on the addon what it affects. If it did affect lockers, that would have been a bug.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928152#Comment_2928152
Look up at when i talked to mandy in this thread. Ohtofus video lists the old description. As well as i have a video with its clear effects and a picture from a year ago when i used the addon.
I don't see you or Mandy posting in this thread at all. Are you thinking of a different thread?
I did look up just now OhTofu's video from July 2020 and the description does include lockers so the original description apparently doesn't match the corresponding patch notes which unfortunately occasionally happens.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926977#Comment_2926977
It was not specified if they meant only after the power is fully charged or after even tapping it. Right after 4.3.0 the power worked in a way that if you didn't charge your power fully you could cancel it and then you wouldn't receive the 1 second penalty. Then suddenly out of nowhere just to fix a bug, around spring 2021, they shadow nerfed him again.
For Shadow Dance go check the bottom of the thread, you'll see the proves.
I don't see any proof in this thread that Shadow Dance's description ever said it worked on lockers. All I've seen is you and a couple of people claim they remember it working on lockers but nothing to back it up. And when I've searched elsewhere for something showing the perk description saying it worked on lockers I can't find anything like that, and in fact in the original patch notes where Shadow Dance perks were created it specifically doesn't include Lockers in the perk description.
Here's the original patch notes for Shadow Dance (2.2). Notice the perk description doesn't include lockers.
Replaced with new add-on "Shadow Dance" - Blood. Changed rarity from Ultra Rare to Very Rare. Reduces the time required to vault windows, break pallets or damage generators while cloaked.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927609#Comment_2927609
The issue with your comparisons is that Dead Hard is the only one of those meta perks that is used primarily by skilled players.
Anyone can use the other perks with little-to-no-skill because they give good utility automatically. Dead Hard is the only one you need to be skilled at using, so lower-skill players may try it a few times but then decide it's not worth it.
do you see the difference?
Just for reference, since I figure you might be curious to see the actual numbers, I pulled the data from the 400 game sample a couple months ago and repivoted everything. Here's a breakdown. (I marked lines where there were only a few matches as such since they obviously have higher variance.) The perks are sorted by how often they were used.
Dead Hard
- 41% of survivors used Dead Hard
- Kill rate for matches with 0 Dead Hard: 76%
- Kill rate for matches with 1 Dead Hard: 76%
- Kill rate for matches with 2 Dead Hard: 67%
- Kill rate for matches with 3 Dead Hard: 59%
- Kill rate for matches with 4 Dead Hard: 44%
Borrowed Time
- 35% of survivors used Borrowed Time
- Kill rate with 0 Borrowed Time: 74%
- Kill rate with 1 Borrowed Time: 70%
- Kill rate with 2 Borrowed Time: 65%
- Kill rate with 3 Borrowed Time: 65%
- Kill rate with 4 Borrowed Time: 70%
Iron Will
- 22% of survivors used Iron Will
- Kill rate for matches with 0 Iron Wills: 70%
- Kill rate for matches with 1 Iron Will: 73%
- Kill rate for matches with 2 Iron Will: 60%
- Kill rate for matches with 3 Iron Will: 53%
- Kill rate for matches with 4 Iron Will: 57% (only 2 matches)
Decisive Strike
- 21% of survivors used Decisive Strike
- Kill rate with 0 Decisive Strike: 73%
- Kill rate with 1 Decisive Strike: 72%
- Kill rate with 2 Decisive Strikes: 54%
- Kill rate with 3 Decisive Strikes: 62%
- Kill rate with 4 Decisive Strikes: 75% (2 matches)
Circle of Healing (note: This was posted prior to the earlier nerfs)
- 14% of survivors used Circle of Healing
- Kill rate for matches with 0 Circle of Healing: 66%
- Kill rate for matches with 1 Circle of Healing: 75%
- Kill rate for matches with 2 Circle of Healing: 62%
- Kill rate for matches with 3 Circle of Healing: 82%
- (No matches with 4 Circles of Healing)
Unbreakable
- 10% of survivors used Unbreakable
- Kill rate for matches with 0 Unbreakable: 69%
- Kill rate for matches with 1 Unbreakable: 68%
- Kill rate for matches with 2 Unbreakable: 62%
- Kill rate for matches with 3 Unbreakable: 80% (only 4 matches)
- Kill rate for matches with 4 Unbreakable: 100% (only 1 match, it was a 4k)
Prove Thyself
- 9% of survivors used Prove Thyself
- Kill rate with 0 Prove Thyself: 68%
- Kill rate with 1 Prove Thyself: 71%
- Kill rate with 2 Prove Thyself: 73%
- Kill rate with 3 Prove Thyself: 27% (3 matches)
- Kill rate with 4 Prove Thyself: 25% (1 match)
Notes
- Dead Hard is the most popular perk tracked at 41% of survivors using it. Kill rates ranged widely between a 76% kill rate against groups that had no Dead Hard at all or only 1 Dead Hard user to 44% kill rate against groups where all four survivors used Dead Hard, with about a 10% or so drop per additional Dead Hard user after the first.
- Borrowed Time was the second most used perk (35% of survivors) but had no significant impact on escape rates. The most likely reason is the killer player tracking this probably just assumed rescuers had Borrowed Time during hook trades so never bothered hitting them in the first place.
- Iron Will was third most popular and its kill rate stats are probably the closest on the list to Dead Hard (70% kill rate against groups with no Iron Will down to 53% against groups that had 3 Iron Will users). It's not quite as wide a gap as Dead Hard but it's still pretty impressive. (And personally as a killer I think Iron Will is one of the best survivor perks in the game so I don't find this all that surprising.)
- Decisive Strike is next most popular and had a bit more of an effect than Borrowed Time did. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the killer played around Decisive Strike whether or not someone had it which would reduce its impact slightly.
- Circle of Healing surprisingly had only marginal impact in this. I would have expected more of a shift between 0 users and 1 user, but they actually had a better kill rate against groups that had a single CoH survivor than groups that had none. It's possible that Circle of Healing either works best in coordinated swfs since they know about the Boon in advance without relying on the HUD, and/or that the Boon users were overusing it and replacing it over and over at the expense of doing gens without getting enough value out of heals for the group. (I personally have seen a few groups lose a game because they overly committed to placing CoH when they should have just done gens while wounded.)
- Unbreakable didn't seem to have as much impact as the other perks, and didn't have much data for groups where 3 or 4 survivors used it. Stats for it look ok but it's not coming across as being as effective as some of the other ones on the list
- Prove Thyself was the least used perk that the data tracked and it seems to have had pretty much no effect. The kill rates were pretty flat for the matches it was used by 0-2 survivors. (There wasn't much data to go by for 3-4 use matches.)
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927609#Comment_2927609
The issue with your comparisons is that Dead Hard is the only one of those meta perks that is used primarily by skilled players.
Anyone can use the other perks with little-to-no-skill because they give good utility automatically. Dead Hard is the only one you need to be skilled at using, so lower-skill players may try it a few times but then decide it's not worth it.
do you see the difference?
I understand what you're saying but I think you're overestimating how often people "try Dead Hard and abandon it" compared to other solid perks. Dead Hard isn't "just used by skilled players", it's the single most popular survivor perk, it's used by something like half of all survivors.
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Why do survivor map offerings always cancel out killer offerings? ….
I don’t think that’s correct, I’m pretty sure when there’s multiple realm offerings it’s random which one takes precedence. (Except for the offering which cancels all others and forces a random realm.)
DS needs a buff as I think it should be for the second hook stage, too. Because it doesn't really prevent tunneling. And that it goes away after you touch a gen or heal yourself or a survivor, or do totems is a bunch of bull.
Decisive Strike does help against the situation it’s intended to help with, namely a killer immediately redowning someone who just got off a hook. There is no doubt it’s a disincentive to try and rehook someone right away as soon as they are unhooked.
And why shouldn’t it be cancelled if the survivor has worked on a gen or healed? If they’ve had time to do those things they it’s not “tunneling” if they get downed again.
COH should definitely be nerfed, maybe add an active for so long timer on it?
They just slowed down its healing speed again. I’m not sure if it’s slow enough yet or not but eventually if the self-healing speed from it becomes slow enough it won’t be an issue. Who would want to self-heal if it took 60 seconds for instance?
Why are hackers still a thing when you quite literally have to record the hack, send it to BHVR and report the player(s). So both the developers don't work and neither does EAC.
For reference they did do a large ban wave a week or two ago. I do agree though that the reporting system is pretty byzantine.
Why is the MMR getting worse? One survivor chased for 50 seconds before downing, three gen pops even with Corrupt. Sort it out, lads.
MMR is fine. If anything it’s actually gotten better on average. The issues people ascribe to MMR have more to do with how the high level meta feels possibly stale to play and with a lack of players for close match-ups depending on when you play, plus too many people leaving lobbies and forcing backfills.
More gay people are angry with BHVR for suddenly announcing a long-known straight character is gay. Straight people, not bothered because Dead Hard sucks. So good job there, guys. Just make a brand new character...
I don’t care about David’s lore one way or another, nor do I suspect it has anything to do with getting new characters in the development pipeline.
Haddonfield, no matter what cosmetics, still broken for both killers and survivors. What's the point of PTBs?
I’ve seen half the posts so far saying Haddonfield is much better than it was and other people posting that it’s either strongly survivor sided or strongly killer sided. I don’t think there’s any consensus on it yet at all.
Why the complaints on NoED, when quite literally it effects end game after all gens are done. What else is the killer supposed to do, play fair when he has three hooks and you're all healed camping a 99'd door, kiss my rotund rump!
I agree, NOED is a good perk but so is Haunted Grounds, I’m not all that convinced NOED has much more of an impact on kill rates than Haunted Grounds does. (At least I haven’t seen any stats so far to indicate it does.)
Lethal Persuer is broken to all hell as the timer starts when the game loads and starts panning. Most of the time you're facing a wall.
I agree, Lethal Pursuer probably should have its time extended maybe 2 or 3 seconds to make up for disparity in starting animations and such. Otherwise the perk is pretty decent, especially for killers that can quickly capitalize on the info,
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Usually whatever the closest hook is for me (barring using Scourge Hooks). Basically the faster I can hook someone the faster I can get back to pressuring the other survivors so the time it takes to reach the hook is the most important factor to me. If hooks are equidistant than I might consider putting someone closer to the next gen I want to defend to be a little more efficient.
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@Notionless said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927449#Comment_2927449
yeah, sure, but any survivor who memorizes totem spawns and sets up at a reasonable time wastes maybe 10 seconds to run to and from the totem, and then another 14 sec to bless. divide by 4 to adjust for teamsize and you just wasted a total of 6 sec in order to give everybody 4 stack desperate measures + selfcare in a very comfortable radius. thats just insane, and makes other very servicable, fun healing perks pale in comparison.
but hey its not permanent well make it anymore so tbh thats a significant improvement.
EDIT: i forgot to consider the snuffing, i've found that a killer wastes too much time, and its better to just forget about hit and run and play a killer that can just commit.
- You divided the 14 seconds by 4 for some reason but in terms of total gen lost progression it’s still 14 seconds total time lost. If I knock a person out for 14 seconds that is that much less time spent on gens, not that amount divided by four.
- You also forgot to include the time taken running back and forth every time a survivor goes to the area to heal. That adds about 5-10 seconds each way to and from the totem location per heal. If the survivors are healing 5-15 times per match each that adds up to a pretty good chunk of time lost compared to if they stuck to the gens instead.
- Snuffing isn’t a waste of time if you do it opportunistically. There are often times you chase a survivor and after a down or hit there’s a Boon right nearby you can snuff in a few seconds, a lot less time than it will take them to replace it. I agree you don’t want to go too much out of your way to find and snuff them, but there are plenty of times where snuffing is time efficient enough to do it in the normal course of business.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927467#Comment_2927467
People use Dead Hard because they want to escape chases.
People use Borrowed Time to help other people not be tunneled.
People use Decisive Strike to prevent being tunneled themselves.
I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like Dead Hard is also used more by Try Hards who care more about "winning". Like, not everybody cares about escaping. I use both Borrowed and Decisive because I just care about having a fun match. I really don't care about dying, I already have every perk unlocked and I am maxed out on blood points. So I'll gladly die as long as the match itself was good.
A perk “being used to help others escape” still presumably increases escape rates for the group if it’s a good perk. A perk that “prevents tunneling” likewise increases the group’s escape rates if its working properly. The difference with Dead Hard and the other popular perks is the degree to which it increases escape rates is much greater.
Plus you’re focussing on Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike but they’re not the only perks I mentioned that stats were posted for. There was also Iron Will and Unbreakable which fall in the same category, they’re popular and useful but don’t have the same statistical correlation with escapes.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927458#Comment_2927458
Can't change the impossible. You think the range is a limitation and that says enough that the discussion is pointless. You also think setting time matters but fail to realise that there are 4 survivors who never stop their objective while a killer snuffing a boon loses 100% efficiency compared to the survivor setting at 75% efficiency.
A killer walking to the edge of the map to snuff a boon is getting nothing done while a survivor running back to set it isn't stopping the other 3 working on generators.
A survivor only needs to get within 24m of a boon to heal and can be on a different floor. A killer needs to snuggle up to the boon to snuff it even then they are designed to be annoying and bounce you off them.
Want another nerf? The survivor should have to tbag the boon to activate it and heal just themselves, after that it turns off again until the next survivor touches it.
You’re just totally discounting the time it takes to run back and forth to a Boon site as if it was zero seconds. And likewise ignore a 14 second setup time as being zero. Neither of which is true. They’re not large times but they do add-up to some non-negligable slow down over the course of play. And I have definitely seen survivors sometimes lose games because they get so focussed on running back and forth trying to reheal and replace Circle of Healing they ignore gens too much.
And you’re totally dismissing the killer’s ability to snuff totems as never being worthwhile when in fact there are many times a Boon is fairly close to a killer after a down and snuffing them only takes a few seconds compared to the 14 seconds it takes its owner to replace it (if they’re even still alive.) Sure, there are some specific maps and totem locations that are problematic like the top floor of Ironworks, but generally speaking the Boons are accessible in the normal course of play.
I’m certainly not saying Circle of Healing isn’t a strong perk, but to say it has no downsides that can’t be balanced out by adjusting its healing speed is hyperbole at best.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927445#Comment_2927445
Yeah it's not strange pink tombstone myers isn't popular when there's so many easier builds to use. Pink tombstone requires a ton of skill to utilize properly so of course it won't be too popular. But boy when someone does use it... GG. Especially since the first survivor usually doesn't suspect it.
Obviously Borrowed Time wont affect a person's winrate. Dead Hard is a selfish perk to extend chases. Borrowed Time is a perk used on someone else that literally does nothing unless the killer is trying to tunnel them. Decisive Strike is also another perk that literally does nothing unless the killer is tunneling. Not to mention slugging is a thing even if the killer does decide to tunnel. I'd say decisive strike is a meta perk more because it's nice to counter these tunneling killers who try to prevent you from getting to even play the damn game, but when you're in those matches where the killer is tunneling you're probably gonna die anyways.
But you’re missing my point - you were saying that Dead Hard is tied to high escape rates because high skill players use it. But high skill players also use other perks and those perks don’t have the same degree of ties to escape rates. If it were just that high skill players used Dead Hard being the only reason for the correlation then its impact on escapes would be more or less on par with those other meta perks. (And the ones that I saw tracked also included Iron Will, Unbreakable and Circle of Healing. I think Circle of Healing was strong with a single use but multiple people using it had diminishing returns.)
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Ooh, a stinging rebuttal! I’ve totally changed my opinion, good job. 👍
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Just FYI they aren’t neglecting Sadako, their normal process with new killers is review them over about three or four months and then have a full balance pass. We’ll probably see a Sadako balance pass next patch or the patch after that.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927420#Comment_2927420
nope. full self team healing at the cost of 1/16 perk slots is just bad.
it should NOT be better than bringing your own including self care.
Self heal 32s for the owner and 42s for others. there, if you don't want to remove a mistake then make it balanced.
But it’s not “full self team healing” because it’s limited by range and snuffable and setup time. Those downsides can’t be entirely dismissed.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927420#Comment_2927420
No the self heal speed isnt an issue at all. If you self heal 32 sec or 24 sec will not do much. The whole point of SELF HEALING itsself is the issue, the self heal action itsself is one of the strongest actions survivors can do in the entire game to hurt the Killers pressure and time. You can tinker and adjust as much as you want with the heal speed it wont do any good nor fix it.
If you think being able to self heal but it takes 60 seconds would be too strong you’re crazy.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927407#Comment_2927407
Tombstone is a pink addon, thus cannot be used every game. But you can't deny that it skips a good portion of the match for the killer, it takes +200% time to stalk but then you only have to catch everyone once. It lets you win the game in 4 successful chases instead of 12.
Have you considered that one reason why high win rate + dead hard is seen together because both requires a high skill level from survivors?
Skillful survivors already have a high chance of escaping, and due to Dead Hard being such a skill-dependent perk, it will be seen more on high-skill survivors.
If you’re talking about the Red Add-on Meyers that allows multiple kills in a single use Meyers only moves 105% speed while doing it. That’s a huge downside on top of the additional charge time at the start of the match and it’s a big reason why Meyers players seem to prefer the Purple Tombstone over the Red one.
And like I said, neither is even all that popular compared to all the other killers, and not just because they’re purple and red add-ons. Being a red-add on has never been a huge problem at high levels of play, just look at how popular Iridescent Head Huntress used to be back when that perk allowed her to have multiple hatchets for example.
Also yes, I am considering that there is a correlation between player time or skill and Dead Hard use. However, when you pivot out escape rates by number of survivors using Dead Hard versus escape rates against number of survivors using other popular meta perks like, say, Borrowed Time, Dead Hard still has a much larger correlation with escape rates than even those other popular high end meta perks. Lots of high end players use Borrowed Time or Decisive Strike or Iron Will but none of those perks seem to have the same level of correlation with escapes that Dead Hard does.
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Regarding the Circle of Healing nerf, the healing speed is a vital stat. Say it took 60 seconds to self heal using the perk, nobody would ever bother doing that. You’d probably throw the game trying. On the other hand if it took 10 seconds to self heal that would be really overpowered. So where that time is set can make this perk go from extremely powerful to hopelessly weak and everywhere in between.
If I had to guess it should probably be at or maybe slightly faster than the standard speed for Self Healing (32 seconds). I say slightly faster because I’m guessing the downsides of having to spend additional time setting the Boon up and it only working in a small area and being snuffable somewhat outweigh the benefit of other survivors being able to use it. Right now as of this patch I think the speed is 23 seconds or something like that? I have no idea if that’s still too fast or in the right ballpark but it definitely moved in the right direction from the original 16 seconds or so it used to be.
My main point though is adjusting that self-healing speed for Circle of Healing actually is the most sensible way to tune it. It’s an amount that can be finely adjusted to any desired degree and which can directly make the effect range anywhere from super strong to super weak, all without having to entirely reinvent the wheel. In fact the hardest part isn’t changing the number, that’s easy, it’s the testing afterward to pivot out how much impact the new version actually has on escape rates which probably takes a while.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927200#Comment_2927200
No killer perk has that much power?
What about... an addon that lets you immediately kill healthy survivors that haven't even been hooked yet.
Before you start arguing that "yeah it only works if it's used by a skilled Myers", same thing can be said about Dead Hard. I've seen too many team mates dead hard into walls and getting immediately downed.
If Tombstone Meyers were the most powerful killer build it would be one of the most popular ones but it barely gets any use compared to Blight or Nurse or even Huntress, etc, Not that you can’t win with Tombstone but the downside of how long it takes to charge it up shouldn’t be underestimated, it definitely hurts him.
Dead Hard is the most popular survivor perk. It also seems to be strongly correlated with escape rates based on a large data set posted a couple months ago by a forum user and the devs mentioning they weren’t happy with its stats. So I seriously doubt Tombstone is actually as effective overall as Dead Hard.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926668#Comment_2926668
It was not in the patch notes, I have checked all the patch notes from Trickster to 5.3.0, and I haven't found a single one that mentioned the cooldown being changed. It was a complete shadow nerf, if not a bug.
Shadow Dance was nerfed and doesn't affect lockers anymore.
- Patch 4.3.0 was the Pyramid Head change
The Executioner Balance Update
At the moment, the cost of missing a Punishment of the Damned attack is too high, and it's too easy to fake Rites of Judgement into a basic attack. The following adjustments address these issues.
Power:
- After cancelling Rites of Judgement:
- Movement speed is 3.68 m/s for 1 second
- Further attacks cannot be made for 1 second
- Cool-down before further attacks after Punishment of the Damned reduced from 2.75 seconds to 2.25 second
Shadow Dance was never nerfed, its description never changed and never included lockers.
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Am I missing something, what are the shadownerfs you're complaining about? I don't recall any unannounced intentional nerfs to killers. (And no, bugs aren't "nerfs".)
P.S. The Pyramid Head thing wasn't a "shadownerf", it was in the patch notes. And Shadow Dance - White and - Blood never changed.
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The chain hit down is probably intended to give a little extra boost to Legion while all four survivors are alive. Once one is dead they're already in a much better spot with a 3v1 so don't need as much of a buff at that point.
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I didn't have any problems just now so it's not affecting everybody. But I did notice some streamers having some rubberbanding today.
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@Hanzo_Hasashi7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926108#Comment_2926108
if you hear then why no one fixes the maps and generators speed?
oh right i completely forgot
you can only hear survivor mains my bad
- Thread has a bunch of Ghost Face players asking for him to get buffed
- Dev replies that they are working on buffing Ghost Face
- ”You can only hear survivor mains”
🙄
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926178#Comment_2926178
These are different fields with different stakes. We are talking about a party game. It's not even a competitive shooter.
I've done some checking. One of the reasons for cheating is low self-esteem. There is also another reason which is self-entitlement from badly raised individuals (no limits from the parent(s)). I found a complete study but I'm not in the mood to read a scientific paper. Maybe later.
So I'll simply summarize it as this. You are right : it doesn't imply it.
However, no cheater I've caught was good (And I've caught a lot. At some point I was getting up to three per night)
- Well as above cheating isn’t necessarily correlated one way or another to skill, other than that someone who literally just started playing the game and isn’t invested in it is unlikely to have spent any time looking up cheats for it right away. So it shouldn’t be surprising that you find plenty of cheaters who are simply average skill players that a veteran like yourself can beat pretty easily.
- Also you have to consider that the most successful cheaters might be the subtle ones who aren’t caught. They would be the ones who tend to play well enough that you wouldn’t necessarily recognize they cheated depending on the situation which would skew your memory of cheaters towards the ones you did spot.
- DbD isn’t a party game, I wish that meme would just go away.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925973#Comment_2925973
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926186#Comment_2926186
Remember your highschool geometry, my friend.
While the tile size is not all that big, the distance you must travel to navigate it is.
If you have to get around 2 structures / fences that are 3 tiles wide in order to travel 2 tiles of distance - those 2 tiles are effectively going to be 6 tiles long.
The distance from the back yard of the main building to the generator inside is less than 12 meters, but requires over twice that distance to be traveled to kick it.
If you KNOW that someone is healing upstairs, so you walk around the insde of the house, around the fence, through the door, around the rooms, up the stairs, and over to the balcony where they are healing - it's a much greater distance you have to travel than the sum of the space between,
Volume =/= distance.
By volume, it's not at all the largest map around. But by relative distance - it is massive.
There’s no reason to think Haddenfield is more complicated to get around that other bigger maps that also have similarly sized structures.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925426#Comment_2925426
Cheaters usually do to to compensate their utter lack of confidence (or the confidence in their utter lack of competence if you will).
A competent player will not need cheats. Usually competence comes from a combination of training and the will to compete and measure oneself against the others.
I'm not saying there are no exception, just that it's the general rule.
I think that's more of a myth than a rule. A feeling of inadequacy or an inability to handle loss to the extent that someone is willing to cheat doesn't imply the person is actually bad at the game, they stem from more deeply rooted character flaws. Barry Bonds for example used steroids but there's no denying regardless of that he was still extremely talented. Also supposedly something like 1/3 of online gamers worldwide admit in surveys to cheating at least occasionally so it's actually becoming a matter of a bad practice being seen as acceptable by a significant portion of the gameplaying populace. There's no reason to think that "people who are good at games don't cheat" is true because people who are good at games still lose to other people who are good at games, and it's the overly strong desire to avoid losing that drives cheating.
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@Valik said:
I do not find it to be a particularly well designed map for either side.
1: The map is MASSIVE - like, Red Forest levels of size, perhaps even bigger. It may not seem like it at first, but if you want to get from the back of the main building to the generator parked in the front room - you have to spend upwards of 10 or so seconds to walk there as killer. (That's nearly 46 meters!) While the direct distance is closer to 12 meters, having to walk around fences and go through several rooms and hallways severely hinders access.
2: Breakable Walls - Where are they? I thought those were supposed to be a big thing for new maps coming out. The primary method of designing loops is that a killer must preform a break action to make a loop weaker - but there are no breakable walls to truly allow this in many loops found in the houses.
3: House Infinites - Each house is designed with massively safe windows and incredibly punishing fences on the inside. A survivor vault in some areas can force the killer to take the window or legitimately abandon the chase. This was a primary issue with the first map, not sure why it's still the case. While taking killers like Nemesis, Demogorgon, Clown, or Cenobite may allow the killer to gain distance and tackle health states - I can't imagine playing this map on run-of-the-mill M1 characters. 4.6m/s is simply not enough to effectuate a hit with some of these windows and inner home loops - especially before the pallets are broken. The saving grace is that many of the pallets outside of the houses are not particularly useful and are hard to mind-game as survivors. Even the safe ones have very shallow hedges around them, making them pointless against Huntress, Executioner, and other such killers.
4: Gen Spawns - Seriously, who coded these things? It's hilariously bad for survivors, which is the only true saving grace for killer mains. I've played on this map for several hours yesterday and each match had a few generators bunched up so tightly it was hilarious. There's a gen spawn in the main building's living room - and one at it's front porch. It takes less than 2 seconds to change from pressuring one to the other. On three separate occasions, I saw these two gens spawn in conjunction with the playground gen next door as well as the neighboring backyard gen - creating an incredibly tight 4 gen situation. Pro-tip. Forget about all of the other gens as killer. Find your 3/4 gen setup and protect those only. Got a Pop? It can take over 24 seconds to walk to a generator across the way - it's not worth the time as much as 6 seconds of progress on a generator you're trying to defend. Survivors may have been given some super strong houses, but killers have been given the easiest 3-gen defense in DbD history.
5: Dead Zone Mid - There's a massive open area in the middle. Devoid of pallets and certainly devoid of generators. Killers that thrive on line of sight are going to have a picnic with this: Huntress, Nemesis, Nurse, Trickster, Plague, Deathslinger, and Executioner mains rejoice! But stealth killers and low mobility boyos are going to be slamming their fists into their keyboards. Ghosface and Onryo are the saddest little ones in the room. While half of the map being dead may make certain sense, and benefit killers - it's such a detriment to survivors that sensible lads are going to avoid it altogether. Literally. Survivors will avoid crossing the street whenever possible. The houses are incredibly powerful loops that can be chained together seamlessly, but the street has nothing of value to draw survivors out. The entire map is 3 lines of Kit-Kat with the middle one being a factory defect without a wafer, there's just nothing there to play around with. It's highly rewarding to catch survivors out in this place, but it's often more frustrating than it's worth. Especially since cocky survivors with good awareness will draw killers into dead zones to waste their time and pull them away from generators to create breathing room for their allies - meaning a survivor that starts to cross the street is more or less accomplishing the same as the ones who run into a completed gen area and hold W to the corner of the map just to waste your time.
6: God Windows? More like God Doors - The biggest problem of the houses are not the windows, contrary to popular belief. Especially when Balanced Landing is out of play, the windows are a hinderance, but not a deal breaker. At least, not by themselves. The major problem is that houses tend to have 2 doors - 2 ways to get in and out... that's it. If you are not by one of these doors, it can take several seconds to get into the building or - on the flip side - get out. 3 survivors choose to body block the main entrance? You need to get in there pronto, but hitting each one is going to take almost 10 seconds? Well, what are you going to do, go around? Going around the house can take almost 12 seconds! Upstairs chasing someone you don't care about - then get a notification that someone is working on a gen just outside the house? Have fun running the 30+m distance to get through a door. Either that, or you can run all the way to one of the windows, vault it, drop, and THEN walk around the house. There simply are not enough ways to come and go from houses - which makes the map feel so much bigger than it actually is... and matches feel much much slower than they actually are. Objective times don't change, but the time it takes you to walk from one side of a structure to another has been artificially lengthened. And to make matters worse, survivors always know where you're coming from. Trying to pressure a generator? No biggie, they know you're coming through the front door? What, don't want to use the front door and have them run out the back again? Going to have to cut them off and go to the back door to surprise them, right? Running the distance can easily give them an extra 8 seconds before you chase them away - that's a tenth of a gen for FREE.
7: Meyers Worst Nightmare - Ironically, this is probably the worst map for Meyers I can ever imagine. M1 phobic interiors, wide open areas in the mid that will cause him to instantly be spotted. 109% movement speed nightmare with the labyrinthine house design and fences. Massive dead zones that punish commitment. Safe survivor sightlines from generators in buildings, meaning you can't just walk up without them having a second or so to run. Pallet central outside that doesn't punish most killers, but will make Shape mains cry into their pillows at night. Generator locations so bad that you'd ball up your hands and cry out to God himself and ask why you weren't playing literally any other killer who could apply pressure to them. I haven't played Shape on this map yet and now I'm afraid to cue up as him in case I do. This design is, quite frankly, the worst thing for him. The only potential upside is the faster vault speed built into his T3, which would make him far more competitive in the houses that were clearly designed with inspiration from Fallout 2, because they're all Vault-City. But if you're that close, many other killers are already better options.
For the next few days, bring mobility and ranged killers for this match. You have a few seconds where survivors are forced to run towards windows - Huntress can give you a hit, Nemesis can give you a hit, Demogorgon can give you a hit, even CLOWN - in some cases - can give you a hit. The other half of the roster, however, will suffer greatly.
Good luck out there, and may God help us all!
The map isn’t “massive”, in fact they reduced its size in the revamp. From the notes on the updated Wiki for Lampkkn Land
- This update also removed two rectangular pieces from opposite outer edges of the Map outline, reducing the Map's size from 168 sqT to 152 sqT.
For context the median map size is 156 tiles so it’s actually smaller than most maps. (For comparison Mother’s Dwelling, the “Red Forest” map you’re probably referring to, is 188 tiles, it’s way bigger than Haddenfield.)