dugman

The devs did confirm that your MMR does go up or down totally independently for every killer. So if you're actually winning a lot with one character and losing a lot with another they'll end up with very different MMRs.

Now if you're playing a character for the very first time, I think it uses your average MMR over all your other killers, so if your MMR is low on everybody else and you play a new character its MMR will start out low too.

in SBMM isn't working if you play multiple killer. Comment by dugman June 3, 2022

I'm not so sure it's getting a major rework. Its effectiveness and popularity already waned a bit following its most recent nerf. It's still a good perk but now that it takes something like 20-25 seconds to heal on top of the 14 seconds it takes to set it up or reset it if it's snuffed, plus the possibility starting next week that you might be against a killer with the new perma-snuff perk, it's not clear if its actually still all that overpowered.

They're definitely still monitoring it though, so if the data actually does indicate it's still too good they'll probably slow it down even more.

in Circle of healing is definitely getting reworked Comment by dugman June 3, 2022

@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980704#Comment_2980704
I would like to quickly cut in and say that those games are not a good comparison to DbD at all.
The big difference is, that all the mentioned games are symmetrical games, whereas DbD is an asymmetrical game.
This means, that in a game like Overwatch you get into a 6v6 matchup, where every player has about the same strength level. Therefore in any form of 1v1 engagement the player who outplayed their opponent, so the player with more skill, gets to live while the other player dies, meaning tracking for kills / deaths alone is an accurate indicator of that individuals skill level.
In DbD we do not have this kind of thing. What we have is a 1v4 matchup, meaning one player has to hold a rather significantly higher strength level than one individual from the other side. In this scenario the one player playing Killer will defeat any of the other 4 players in a 1v1 engagement not because they are more skilled than they are, but because they are heavily favored by the game and its mechanics. Just looking at who lives and who died in this case is therefore not a good measurment of skill, at least not for an individual Survivor. It could work if it was changed to judge the entire Survivor team based on the overall outcome like it does with the Killer (to allow a victory even for that one individual that got hardfocussed and stood no chance but therefore allowed everyone else to escape), but that is not how it works right now.
Now of course we could balance DbD around the 1v1 interactions, as the Devs have been trying to. In this case seeing who lives and who dies from the Survivor side would actually be a decent way to determine their skill level, however thisno longer works for Killers who are judged soley on kills. You see, if we balanced this game around the 1v1 interactions and made the determining factor for a hit be whoever outplays the opponent, then the Killer would struggle immensly against the Survivor team due to being outmanned as heavily as they are. Killers would end up getting obliterated by teams that are even just somewhat close to their skill level, meaning now this MMR system would put the Killer up against a bunch of much worse Survivors, because those are the only ones the Killer can achieve a victory / draw against in this system.
In order for DbDs MMR system to be comparable to games like Overwatch, LoL, etc. we would need to change the MMR system first to actually judge both sides on the same basis, meaning Survivors would need to be judged as an overall team rather than four individuals.

Just FYI one of the things the devs mentioned in that big MMR blog post was they actually are working on tweaking MMR so that survivors go up or down as a group versus as individuals. That way someone who sacrifices themselves to save everybody else still can have their MMR go up.

in Why MMR tho? Comment by dugman June 3, 2022

@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980602#Comment_2980602
It is more accurate if you are new to the game or not very skilled. The whole reason they changed to MMR was to keep new players from being swashed until they learned the mechanics of the game. Most players that get steamrolled early wont stick with the game and they prioritized those players over those that have been longtime users.

Absolutely not true, as shown by how a bunch of high skill players now complain that they have to "sweat to win". The obvious reason they have to try hard to win is because they're being matched against equally high skill players due to the MMR, something that didn't happen as often in the old system.

in Why MMR tho? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980602#Comment_2980602
No it's not? Tell me why is that you think outcome>performance

For a few reasons, including:

The sole purpose of MMR or rank is to make it so players of equal rating have reasonably close escape/kill results at the end. Trying to measure everything else under the sun just dilutes away from what you're actually trying to measure, namely the kills and escapes. Too many parameters does not necessarily make a rating system "more accurate", it just makes it more complicated.
When matches involve players who are all in the same MMR bracket the results are normally close. This is evidenced by the experiments the devs did where, when the MMR brackets were severely tightened, the consensus was the players were all closely matched (or, as some people said, "I'm only facing the same sweaty survivors and having to try hard to win". Which implies it was a tough, close match for the killer.) When the brackets were loosened the resulting matchups were much more chaotic.
Anecdotally my matches are noticeably better now than under the old Rank system, especially with the rank resets screwing up the rankings every month.
Also note than every killer character in your roster has its own independent MMR, something that doesn't happen with the emblem system.

in Why MMR tho? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

Because the MMR is actually more accurate than the old rank system that you’re talking about.

in Why MMR tho? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

Yeah, as a killer I don’t get mad at survivors who out loop me or who are good at hiding or whatever. I get frustrated at myself when that happens but I certainly don’t think they’re being jerks. I do think survivors are jerks when they run around spamming flashlights at you or doing the “hey, watch me leave!” thing at the exits when the game is over, but that has nothing to do with when they play better than me.

in Some killers have a serious pride issue Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

There’s no way Deathslinger is worse than literally every killer. At worst he’s slightly worse than Huntress.

Beyond that I mostly agree with which brackets the killers are in.

in Made an updated Killer Tier List with Dredge Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@Lastchild said:
How many times do you have to be told that MMR doesn't exist ?
The developers have explained it themselves.

It does exist. All you have to do is look back to when they experimented for a couple of weeks with how the matchmaking algorithm handled various ways to pair people up according to their MMR to see it actually exists and is reasonably accurate. (When the brackets were tightened people had closer matches than when they were loosened.)

in Made an updated Killer Tier List with Dredge Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@RoboMojo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980244#Comment_2980244
They weren't very good then, huh?

I saw the first one, it was ok? 🤷‍♂️

in Have you ever played any of the Silent Hill games? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

What’s your favorite Legion loadout?

in 700th post celebration! AMA Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@RoboMojo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980239#Comment_2980239
My bad, forgot the movies existed, lol.

Probably for the best. 🙂

in Have you ever played any of the Silent Hill games? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

Inner ear infection.

in How is the killer stunned by wiggling Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

I never played the game but I did see the movie (which wasn’t an option in the poll)

in Have you ever played any of the Silent Hill games? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

“Tunneling” is a useless buzzword, there’s no consensus on what it even is let alone why it would be somehow unfair or unsportsmanlike or whatever. Virtually all the complaints I’ve seen of “tunneling” after a match are simply people who are sore they got downed twice in a row.
”Proxy Camping” is literally just zone defense. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Actual “face camping” where the killer just stands at the hook doing nothing is a problem only in that if players feel (rightly or wrongly) like it’s a viable strategy then the gameplay loop that results sucks for everybody, with a killer bored doing nothing for two minutes, a survivor stuck on a hook doing nothing, and the other survivors having their best strategy to be just stay on gens most of the time. That’s why the devs have actually mentioned working on trying to find a systematic way to steer killers away from “face camping” but haven’t said anything is wrong with just “camping” in general.

in Tunneling & camping? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

Dead Hard and NOED are two entirely different perks, I don’t know why people talk about them like they’re linked.

Dead Hard is definitely seriously overpowered and almost certainly getting a nerf
NOED doesn’t statistically seem to be that overpowered if it even is. I think the main reason survivors hate it is if they get downed by it they feel like they got “robbed” because “they already won since the gens were done”. It’s a thing where it hurts a lot more to lose at the last minute than to suffer damage early on and lose because of that. But in reality if NOED actually inflated kill rates as much as people claim it would have been nerfed a long time ago. It would also be more popular than it is at high MMR, especially considering it’s a generic perk available on all killers versus a teachable you have to unlock.

in LET'S CUT THE ######### AND BE HONEST Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@SimplyPixelated06 said:
44 knives to spam at you, no matter what you do you're pretty much guaranteed to go down. If you're in the open you are getting downed instantly, if you're at windows you'll slowly eat knives until injured then run to the next tile and slowly eat knives again. If you're at a pallet with short wall you're stuffed, you can try and duck but it's not going to take long until you're downed. It's the definition of holding W for as long as you can until you inevitably go down.

I don’t get it, all killers get you down eventually. If a killer can’t get you down eventually then they’d obviously not be good enough mechanically to be in the game. And from what I can tell good Deathslingers and Huntresses get you down even more quickly.

Is he “boring” to go against because he can’t actually down people really quickly?

in Why Do Survivors Hate Facing Trickster? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@GoshJosh said:
His aesthetic and his power. Easy mode Huntress, with backup Main Event camping always a possibility just in case.

Easy mode Huntress? By most accounts he’s statistically worse than Huntress.

in Why Do Survivors Hate Facing Trickster? Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

This whole “rewards failure” gripe about Dead Hard and NOED and such is kind of silly. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a perk whose benefit helps you catch up when you’re behind.

The issue with Dead Hard specifically isn’t that it’s used to help get a survivor out of a sticky situation, it’s that it’s too powerful overall since it’s two effects that are both good enough to be perks in their own right combined into a single mega-perk. If the perk is weakened it would still be helping survivors out of trouble, but simply be more in line in overall effectiveness with lots of other perks that also improve chances of escaping. It’s that degree of effectiveness that’s the problem, not the types of situations it’s used in.

in DH Rewards Failure Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

On a related note remember when there were all these posts about how people were jumping ship from DbD to play Elden Ring? Steam Charts for that game started out at something huge like 950k players, now 3 months later it's at 68k. I'm not sure why people thought a one-shot action RPG would be a long lasting competitor to DbD. 🤷‍♂️

Evil Dead seems "ok". It's a lot more like Left 4 Dead than Dead by Daylight, but at least it's in the 4v1 multiplayer horror genre. So far it sounds like it's doing alright but the shine came off it a bit in the last couple of weeks, less people are watching it on streams and I think somewhat flawed parts of the game are starting to show more. It has potential, though, to stick around if they can keep at the development to vary the gameplay more and polish it up a bit.

VHS ... who knows? 🤷‍♂️It really seems like that game has kind of come and gone and it's still in Early Access. On a side note, I saw one comment on the VHS forums that sounded kind of telling - "1 killer chasing 4 survivors is usually fun. 4 survivors beating up 1 killer is usually not fun." That core gameplay loop in VHS sounds like it's become a bone of contention.

Honestly, though, and I've said this before, I think DbD's main threat is simply its age and attrition over time. 6 years old is pretty lengthy in video game timespans. I really do think a lot of the loss last year had as much to do with DbD being an older product and people just naturally migrating to other newer games over time as with anything else. And eventually they'll have to consider a DbD 2.0 game if only to keep up with new technology and really bring in a bunch of new players to the franchise. Who knows when or if that would happen, but video games don't last forever (at least as a practical matter, I'm sure there's still fringe fans playing Ultima and Zork out on some emulator somewhere.)

in BHVR Needs to step up their Game. Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2979663#Comment_2979663
Boons was regarded as a Bad Idea overall, but they still went with it. Sooo Yea Don't trust BHVR to actually deliver on actual "Balanced" Changes

I disagree, I've always thought Boons are a fine idea and I say that as a killer main. Circle of Healing has been the only problematic Boon, the rest are fine. There's a vocal minority that has a bug up their butt about Boons in general, they're not the consensus.

in BHVR Needs to step up their Game. Comment by dugman June 2, 2022

I don't know the chances of individual missions, but in looking this up I just now realized that all the missions correspond to the either different emblem categories. Pretty cool!

Survivors

Lightbringer missions require either repairing 3 generators or opening the Exits with a specific survivor
Unbroken missions require either escaping and surviving 1 time with a specific survivor, or escaping and collecting 1 item
Benevolent missions require healing other survivors 3 states, rescuing 3 survivors from the Hook, or performing cooperative actions for 180 seconds
Evader missions require sabotaging 4 hooks, or being chased for 120 seconds with a specific survivor

Killers

The Malicious mission for killers is to kill a survivor with your own hands (i.e. Mori, Devour Hope, Rancor, etc)
Gatekeeper missions are the ones that involve using your specific killer's special ability during a match (Gatekeeper used to be called Deviousness and it's the catch all for the special ability events)
The Chaser mission is to chase survivors for 3 minutes as a specific killer
The Devout mission is to complete 2 sacrifices with a specific killer

in Why do I only get Killer Daily Rituals? Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

I don’t know about the Dredge hearing things like this, but I could maybe see this for Clown.

in The Dredge should hear the wails when attacking and during nightfall as cheers & laughter Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

The noise doesn’t bother me too much, but those graphical black bubbles that obscure vision when a generator is completed or a survivor is sacrificed on hook are kind of annoying. I wish I could actually still look in that general direction and make things out other than a big black circle with a generator or hook in it.

in WHY DOES THE SACRIFICE HAVE TO BE SO LOUD! Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

Blindness could use a bit of a boost probably. One possibility might be something like when a Survivor is initially Blinded they actually are briefly flash blinded as with a flash effect hitting them, after which they are immune to that flash blind aspect for a while. Even a brief flash blindness could help a killer get an extra hit on Blinded survivors.

Another possibility could be do something similar to the Dredge’s Nightfall effect where being Blind reduces the distance survivors can see.

in Which Status Effect needs a rework the most? Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

If I could remove one thing it would be map offerings. They just exacerbate issues between maps and exploits for little to no benefit. I think the game would be better off without them.

in What Do You Wish Wasn't Ever in DBD? Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2979304#Comment_2979304
Right, but I guess I disagree with the notion that it shouldn't really be considered because the number is so small. Those players still exist, and they probably don't have a ton of fun with the current matchmaking. Survivors certainly don't seem to have fun against my Nurse. It's a cynical way to develop a game IMO. "At a certain point, X amount of players will get so good that they stop having fun or ruin other people's fun."

Those players likely get far more mismatches due to being outliers in general versus being so far above the softcap that their MMR is misleading. Very high MMR players are the ones most likely not to have opponents in their acceptable range and then getting whatever spot if available. If anything the softcap would reduce the net gap of potential mismatches by keeping some of them at around that 1700 mark versus being backfilled onto totally random groups.

in How Am I Supposed to Win As Survivor? Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2979231#Comment_2979231
I think copyrighted characters fall into public domain eventually. guess it happened to pooh bear and co

That's correct, Winnie the Pooh became a public domain character this January. (The Disney version of Pooh is still copyrighted since that's their specific take on him, but the original Winnie the Pooh character is freely available.)

in Winnie the Pooh horror movie coming late this year Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@[Deleted User] said:
It's not an MMR issue. You can be an elite survivor above the softcap and still have multiple games in a row with teammates throwing games. Or not even throwing games, but teammates well outside of you and the killer's skill range.
People say they don't want this game to be competitive, or they don't want matchmaking to be competitive. I am asking, genuinely: how fun are you actually having being forced into games with players who aren't even trying to win? One game, fine. How about at least half of your games on any given night?
Let's just imagine that someone knew their MMR couldn't functionally increase any further for matchmaking purposes. Are the devs really saying their time investment means nothing, and their skill means nothing? Sorry about your luck, but these are the teammates you get unless you want to play in a 4 man SWF every time you play survivor? No other game does this. It's not right that players who want to be optimal and essentially play at Masters/GM are forced into playing with Silver/Gold teammates and there's literally no other game mode for solos. Even if you aren't elite, some players still want to play to win.

The softcap is pretty irrelevant, Peanits confirmed in a reply when they had their big MMR blog post that the number of people who are over the softcap is extremely small. And similarly when they recently posted charts of perk usage by MMR, the upper end at the soft cap appeared to be less than 1% of players. Only a tiny fraction of the playerbase is actually over the softcap.

in How Am I Supposed to Win As Survivor? Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@Lekitzul said:
I honestly just wish his haste bottle had a use. :/ It seems like too much effort to setup.

His haste bottle is useful for a couple of things

If you see a survivor at long range, you can throw the yellow gas toward them and by the time you get to it you’ll get the boost. This is a more reliable method than trying to slow them down at long range since it doesn’t require you to accurately throw the bottle to exactly where they are running and don’t have to worry about them dodging around the gas.
At dropped pallets that you can throw bottles and loop around them you can toss a yellow gas across the pallet and loop toward it. The survivor will not be able to stay in the cloud to get the benefit since you’ll reach them before it activates, and if they try to loop you’ll get a speedboost midway there to possibly hit them before they can get all the way to the pallet drop. Or if they start to loop and then break off to another tile, for instance, you can still potentially get the speed boost to catch them before they transition.
If you have one bottle left and are about to pick someone up to carry them to a hook you can drop the yellow gas right before you pick them up. This will give you extra speed on the carry, it’s kind of like getting Agitation for free (or if you have Agitation it even stacks with that and you can move super quick on the carry.)

So there’s definitely good uses for the yellow gas, it just takes a little practice to get in the mindset to use it in those situations.

in Just played my first Clown games in a while... Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

To me the only odd thing about the 4% is you have a chance to pull yourself off the hook but you don’t have a similar chance to recover when you’re dying on the ground. I’m not exactly sure why one allows for a Hail Mary attempt to recover and the other doesn’t, it seems like they should either both allow it or both not allow it.

Beyond that, I’m ok in principle with perks that help survivors both pull themselves off hooks (e.g.Slippery Meat) and that help them revive themselves from being slugged (e.g. Unbreakable). Whether some of those specific perks are currently under- or over-powered is another topic, but broadly speaking I think it’s perfectly fine for survivors to be able to equip something in their loadouts that helps them get themselves back on their feet maybe once a match.

in The 4% Unhook is Unfair Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@legacycolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978932#Comment_2978932
Dude.. or dudette idk.
Ive had many people on PlayStation write me gg after they killed me and I know 100% it’s meant to rub their victory in my face. There are definitely people out there that write gg for toxic reasons. I’m not saying everyone is like that, but a good portion is, considering how toxic this community is in general.

Again, sounds more like something in your head about other people saying they thought it was a fun match when you lost.

in Why do people care about "Good game manners" Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

I don’t hate them.

in Why do killers hate bt, ub, and ds so much Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

Honestly I think DbD would be better off if they just removed map offerings altogether.

in OK survivors, what's going on? Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@Souplet said:
MMR = SBMM
They aren't 2 separate things

Technically they actually are two separate things. MMR is the Matchmaking Rating you have, it’s a number that goes up or down every match. SBMM is the matchmaking algorithm that tries to pair players up based on their MMRs.

It’s useful to understand that relationship. For example, your MMR itself is probably a pretty good reflection of how good you are with a specific killer or as a survivor in that, if you are in a match with everybody having around that same MMR, it will usually be a close match with 1-3 deaths. But because of how the matchmaking algorithm has to handle people with outlier ratings and people who leave lobbies and swfs with MMR gaps and things like that it can’t always pair players up who are close in MMR and you get matches that can seem more lopsided.

So SBMM and MMR aren’t the same thing, the latter is a numerical rating that the former uses as a guide to pair people up when it can.

in I played dbd and the results of SBMM Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978880#Comment_2978880
You don't think that Steam is fairly proportional to the playerbase on other platforms?
I don't see why it wouldn't be - there's no reason why consoles would be rising but Steam is falling, or vice versa.
It's not the gross player number that's interesting, it's the wax and wane.

I agree with you that Steam Charts is probably roughly proportional to the overall playerbase. To play Devil’s Advocate, though, hypothetically of Steam and PC gaming as a whole were losing significant market share to console gaming then the weight of Steam players in the overall numbers would be less and less significant over time. Also if the game were to make technical changes that only impacted PC players but console players were unaffected or vice versa that could result in contrary shifts where Steam Charts goes the opposite direction of the overall DbD population.

Like you said, though, I see no evidence or reason though to think Steam Charts aren’t generally reflective of the overall playerbase.

in A bump of 7% of (Steam) players in May. Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@KateDunson said:
Some people have hope in what the devs announced at anniversary, also double bloodpoints event for an entire week, soon the new chapter as well.
They didnt announce any change to sbmm tho, matters of time till it will go down again

That’s because for the most part MMR works fine, they already did a big change to it, and they already announced prior to the anniversary chat that they were working on likely further refining it so MMR would go up or down based on how survivors escape as a team versus how they escape individually (that way someone who sacrifices themselves to help the rest of the survivors escape doesn’t have their MMR go down in the process.)

in A bump of 7% of (Steam) players in May. Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@legacycolt said:
Saying GG after you camped every single survivor and tunneled for early 3v1 is definitely toxic.
Saying GG even after you got stomped is respectful.
There are differences

If you’re offended by someone saying they thought it was a good game that’s a reflection on you, not them.

Also “tunneling” is a meaningless buzzword, nobody even agrees on what it is let alone it being something unfair or unsportsmanlike.

in Why do people care about "Good game manners" Comment by dugman June 1, 2022

@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977472#Comment_2977472
I'm glad it's doing better.
They also announced a whole host of highly requested changes this month and it's Anniversary

Yeah, looking forward to the changes! 🙂

I always say this, though, but honestly considering the game is six years old it’s still doing extremely well. Attrition is its main enemy at this point, eventually they’ll probably want to do a DbD 2.0 on a new engine to keep its technology relevant and work out kinks they’ve talked about wanting that aren’t practical to do without starting over (e.g. an automatic replay system).

in Remove MMR, it's punishing good players! Comment by dugman May 31, 2022

@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977577#Comment_2977577
Sadako's is actually directional. The only one that is.

Not according to the official wiki. Like I said, if it’s currently directional that’s a bug, no lullabies are supposed to be directional.