drsoontm
drsoontm
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Instead of one perk, here is a fun build suggestion (from a Blendette)
note: the idea isn't mine. Some streamer had a few matches with it and I thought is was a lot of fun.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Wow, I can't believe how awful this feels. All my Killers are still running LP with BBQ and I thought Distortion started with 2 tokens. It only starts with one.
I don't blame any Killers, they're just doing their job but SoloQ is not worth it at all right now. Even in my Killer games someone just quits.
SoloQ was so bad, I decided to just do the Killer role for my challenges. Out of 5 Killer matches, I had 3 in which people went next, one where 3 Sable players griefed the Mikela on hook and one where the Survivors just memed around playing the 🎸.
Don't worry about quitters. Some "survivors" do it if they feel slightly inconvenienced. Griefers should be reported though. I'd have freed the Mikela (using the anti-face-camp mechanic to let her unhook herself) and killed the Sables. Depending on how bad they behaved, I'd have slugged them to death.
Survivors playing that instrument is pretty nice. That's usually a ticket for an easy exit as far as I'm concerned 😊
The Solo-Q experience varies. I rarely have complains. My survival rate is maybe 55%. Some matches are pretty discouraging, mostly because of rage-quitters and newbies strangely put in my lobbies.
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A few choices:
OTR: great anti-tunnel
WOO: great for looping
Reassurance: very useful against tunneling & camping (I suggest you look for CopeDBD on youtube. His last video is a brilliant demonstration)
Iron Will: great to dodge killers (no sound is very disturbing)
Bite the bullet: silent healing (it's part of my main build)
…
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@Grigerbest said:
Hooked the first survivor — Then hooked 2 different survivors — Went for the first survivor again — First survivor calling killer a tunneler
When I was called a "tunneler" in the end-game chat - I asked the person: "Wait, what? Who did I tunnel?" — they just instantly left the lobby. :D
You need a hard evidence of that, since so many killer players being accused of tunneling when they're not. :D
You say that like if it was a crime. Tunneling is a perfectly acceptable tactic.
There are weapons against it, efficient ones.
I only do it rarely myself but only because I don't find it very efficient.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824270#Comment_3824270
Honestly i didnt quote you because the "Its only good for beginners" its an argument that a lot of people are using, so i wasnt directly quoting you on this matter.
It needs to be nerfed because….it is extremely strong? As i said, i dont think the perk is "overpowered" (and those should also be nerfed) but is still strong. Just because there are more broken perks doesnt mean this one should absolutely stay.
Thats literally like saying "as long as Nurse exist, never nerf another killer at all, as long as it is weaker than Nurse".
And you knew exactly what i was saying when i said "for free". You need absolutely zero input.
For the killer to get value from the perk Eruption it needs first to kick a gen and then to down a survivor. And one of the complains people had for the old eruption is that "it was for free".
A lot of people say silly things on this forum. Sometimes I'm flabbergasted at what some people dare to say. (It's like they don't realise we play the same game and devs have actual statistics.)
I agree the perk is strong. I'm all for strong stuff as long as it's not OP. And I don't believe it's OP. I don't believe many things are mind you. The way I see it most of the OP stuff has been fixed a while ago. (old DS, DH, MFT, …)
Weak perks should be made more desirable. (So should be weak killers. Who's at the top right now? Wesker? Chucky?)
I honestly didn't get what you meant by "for free". If you mean "need absolutely zero input" please say so. I'm not a mind reader.
(And thanks for the example, now I understand better)
People who have said the old eruption was "for free" were wrong IMHO. (See sentence at the top of this reply.) Two wrong don't make a right.
By "for free" I understand something akin to "base-kit", e.g. free BT, free unhook, …
The way I see it, this perk is very good for beginners and helps veterans. I'm not sure the help for veterans is that big. It would be interesting to make many measures of 1vs1 M1 chases with and without that perk, on many maps.
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@albertoplus said:
People will keep using the "Its only good on beginners" (notice the "only" word highlighted) to try their best to not get the perk nerfed and thats a blatant lie.
Perk also helps experienced people by knowing where a pallet has been thrown by a teammate. Keep in mind that not all experienced prople are 4-man swf with comms.
Otzdarva explained it pretty well on his last survivor perk tier list video. Hell when i started seeing the video i though he was going to put the perk in D or E tier and ended at the top of the A tier just below S tier and the strongest perks. For beginners, it helps them knowing the pallet spawns. For experienced people, it helps them knowing where the pallets have been thrown by a teammate.
You can be god at looping, then when you are getting chased you can go into a tile with a very strong pallet only to see that the pallet has already been thrown and broken. Most of those tiles means the killer gets a hit. With WoO you would not have run to this tile and instead you could have went into another one which still had a pallet, with the possibility to keep extending the chase over and over and keep buying time for your teammates.
And all of this for free, because the perk has no activation method or cooldown.
The perk is not "overpowered", but very, very, very strong and nerf-worthy.
I'm pretty sure I've stated it was good on the whole spectrum. It was even a factor as to why that perk was good as it was.
Why an "A" perk should be nerfed?
And it's not "for free". It uses a perk slot.
What's the big idea breaking what doesn't need to be.
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
Don't forget to mention Mr TatorHead. He makes awesome loop guides on youtube:
Indeed, I've learned a lot from that guy. (edit: I've only watched specific loop tutorials from him so far. I remember him to be way more chill than in this one.)
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824217#Comment_3824217
yes the void is so survivor friendly, to recap
survivors are broken and exhausted can’t use perks, can’t heal have to wait 3 seconds to enter and 3 seconds to transfer energy just to get a smoke grendade that hinders them.
killers, can use powers, can use perks, undetectable, instantly enter and exit, get a haunting to attack youjust Like perks are survivor sided I guess. Like survivor gets 5% haste for 0.5 seconds then broken for 40 seconds
Where as killer gets 6 second aura reveal if you escape a chase or 8 second aura reveal for all good skill checks..
It's perfectly clear you have a very narrow vision of the board. Maybe when you learn a bit more how to play you'll understand.
Better yet, play killer for a while and get amazed at how fast you lose gens when you waste your time in the void.
Unless you think running into the void with the killer a couple of second behind you is the right move. If you do, it's not how you are supposed to play.
Anyway…
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I've noticed it in one of my matches.
It looked like a deadly trap.
I already knew it was a bug but I find it kind of funny nobody has noticed it during testing.
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The consensus? I'm sure they had a meeting and thoroughly debated about it.
It's not like most these shills will cater for their bigger audience. That would be crazy.
- 2vs8 was pro-survivor, as long as they were doing the gens: double survivors, double killers, less than double the gens.
- lights-out: survivors had insane buffs and lights (still not enough, probably pro-killer)
- now: survivors have the void that's a pressure vacuum for the killer as well as grenades to facilitate escapes
But sure, it's "pro killer" and the evil devs are only making it more difficult for that side.
Funny how I don't have such problems when I play survivor. I must play in a very nice region with my own version of the game. 🙄
I'm off, by all means resume with the echo-chamber discussion.
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823961#Comment_3823961
Do you mean how we can build against aura reading but then they nerf Distortion?
Survivors get NOTHING. They nerfed Decisive Strike :D
Exaggeration doesn't help your argument.
Moving on.
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823955#Comment_3823955
Why does my build have to surround the tunneling but they get to play however the want and use whatever perks they want AND they still nerf my general game play like smaller loops and closer hooks?
If it's that much of a problem, build against it. That's seem pretty straightforward.
I don't mind being tunneled myself. My builds are mostly about dropping a chase and I get out often enough.
And when I play killer, sometimes I tunnel (why is unimportant) and survivors with anti-tunnel perks are a pain to handle.
So, use the tools available, or don't. It's your choice.
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Why aren't you using all the anti-camp+tunnel mechanics?
Here is something helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU3l8GcdGMMAlso, there is absolutely nothing in common between having the ability to mori the last remaining survivor and giving an anti-tunnel perk like DS base-kit. That's not even close.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823285#Comment_3823285
75% 4k rate.
90% win rate if you include the games where they got 3 kills.
Quite a lot of the killers had 100% 4k rates even with hooking.
Even if you don't consider a 3k to be a killer win, a 75% win rate is insane by the standards of any game. Yes, including this one.
Also it's important to note that the slugging playstyle also produced a similar number of wins, which shows that it's not particularly that much stronger than hooking, if at all. It just produced a higher number of 4ks than 3ks because of the nature of hatch.
If you never hook anyone until all survivors are on the floor, then you will almost always 4k in games which you win, because the last survivor is never given a chance at hatch.
Seriously, go back to that video and add the 3k games to the 4k games. The number of wins is actually higher than in the slugging games.
That 90% would be closer to my expectations. (I've watched two of these killers as I follow them regularly. I don't think anybody escaped the slugging matches they've shown.)
The rest of you post is matching with my experience and expectations.
And yes, a 3K is a win in my book. 2K a draw, anything less a loss. I believe it was defined like that by the devs. It's also one of the common critique of the devs putting kills forward instead of the number of hooks.
I don't necessarily try to four-slug myself. I do it opportunistically, or I try it when I can't find an easier way to slow the survivors down … or as a counter against some tactic (as you know survivors can make themselves very difficult to hook)
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823717#Comment_3823717
I suppose revealing the aura of the furthest survivor for a few seconds after the second survivor sacrificed wouldn't be too punishing. The killer could go there and would be able to tell if the survivor was hiding and have a ballpark to search. But it's essentially a free BBQ proc, so if you are running BBQ it's redundant.
Anything that persists for longer would need to be much more measured. Maybe only revealing survivors greater than ~90 meters away.
In either case though you're going to be disproportionately buffing high mobility killers, which is never a good thing.
First I'd like to point out it's not about buffing anybody. It's like the hatch. It's a mechanic that would be there to give a chance to an otherwise utter defeat. I don't expect both survivors to stand a chance. One would, chosen randomly. To find the hatch high mobility killers also have the advantage.
And I wouldn't give a BBQ-like proc on hook. It should only be a fix against the ones who hide for long, not the courageous players.
It would only activate if "nothing" happens for, say, one minute after the last hook. Nothing being none of "gen progressed enough" + "chase".
And the detection should probably be a "killer instinct" that starts proccing every 15 seconds until the situation is remedied (e.g. start of a chase.)
I'm sure there are ways to improve this and fix all the kinks I'm not thinking about.
Ideally that mechanic should apply on the general case. Meaning it could also solve survivors hiding from the start (it happens). It's just extremely rare.
I always think about this failed competitor who had a fix for this: if no interaction happens between the opposing sides, they'd both get each-other's position until an interaction would happen. (That game failed because the killer role there was borderline impossible and very tiring.)
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Agreed : there should be a concede mechanic for this. Unless unbreakable or something.
No Mither would be the tricky one to handle.
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@Perfect_Dank said:
Bro, for real. It's a ######### when you feel like you have to fill a perk slot with somethign, specifically just for hunting down the last hidey bastard.
Other side of that coin, I've been one of 2 survivors remaining who is actually trying, meanwhile the other survivor DOES ABSOLUTELY ######### ALL. The other survivor clearly just wanting to wait you out so they can have a chance at the hatch, because ######### you, they have no obligation to you. And granted, if it's unsafe, I don't think you should just rush in and save me if it's just going to clearly kill you in the process, but do somedamnthing! so help me if I spectate, just to watch my sub 4000pts teammate, at end game twitch around behind a wall by a corner like an #########, just because you think it's funny to watch the killer struggle to find your ass...
That is what annoys me the most in this situation.
When it happens to me of course (and I'm the one being on the gen, I'd rather go next than waste time that much).
But when I'm the killer and I notice there is one courageous one doing something while the last one hides like a coward I'd like to scream : point me to the other one and I'll let you go.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823687#Comment_3823687
Is there a good reason why the fourth survivor should be in checkmate once the third survivor is sacrificed?
The second sacrifice is essentially the 'check' before the checkmate. Which regresses the question; Is there a good reason why the last two survivors should cencede to a loss once the second survivor has been sacrificed?
Why are we arguing that a 2K is the benchmark for a killer winn and that it ahould automatically be upgraded to a 4K?
The fourth survivor is never in checkmate: he has the hatch and the doors. That's basically 3 options with reasonable chances of survival. (I'm not talking about him being already in a chase of course. Different story.)
About the two being checkmate, I'm only talking about the ones who hide. Some still try and, amazingly, succeed. (But in my experience only with at most two gens lefts and gens spread enough for the killer having to patrol.)
The only problem here is essentially the ones who give up. The killer already managed to discourage them from doing anything. What is it but a victory? Everything else is wasting some time.
But …
If there was a mechanic that tells the killer where the furthest one is (how? details. not important). The killer can find him an start a chase. During that time the other can do whatever he wants. (Gens or hiding) If the chased survivor goes down, the last on can go for an unhook (doubtful) or wait and go for the hatch or the doors. It's basically the fourth survivor case which isn't a checkmate.
Why the furthest one? Because it makes it longer to find him, and it's essentially a random choice.
I also thing that, maybe, instead of a hook, if such a mechanic was in play the down should trigger a mori : no slugging for 4k. The goal is essentially to not waste time. Let's do that on both fronts. (I'm not sure about this part of the idea.)
It's basically yet another second chance mechanic but it would solve the problem without being certain death.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823675#Comment_3823675
It shouldn't be necessary.
The last two survivors hide because they have no other viable options unless one of them sacrifices themselves for the other. Two solo survivors are unlikely to want to be the sacrifice and instead wait for the other to be found first.
If survivors rated the chances at furthering the objective when down to 2 survivors remaining, then this wouldn't happen.
How we manage that is a more complicated question.
It's a though one.
Basically by doing nothing but hiding they concede they've already lost.
So making it impossible for them to hide for too long would probably fix the problem. (Suggested many times, with many variations, the most recent one by @Senile_Grandpa.)
It seems some disagree and call that "a free win", missing the part where the survivors are basically check-mate.
Whatever the devs do, it should probably go along these lines.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823335#Comment_3823335
And the death timer should continue because else what prevents someone from dragging a survivor "forever"? (For any reason, and I can already imagine a few.)
I see no reason not to keep the blood stains. They don't stay for long anyway.
The reason for temporarily pausing the dying survivor's death is to give the survivor room to move the injured survivor to a better place to heal, I mean so that the dying survivor doesn't die in your hands.
I think you think that survivors can heal a dying survivor while dragging or carrying the dying survivor, I don't want that what I wrote here is intended to move the dying survivor meaning you will have to lower the dying survivor to start healing.
The reason for hiding the blood stains is to encourage the survivors to cooperate and make it difficult for the killer to track the survivors as there are already 3 survivors in one place.
No, I believe I understand what you meant. And I realize I forgot to specify it should not require two survivors to do so, otherwise it's too much of a corner case. That's one of the reason I put additional limitations to balance it (speed, blood, …)
I think the death progress should not stop because otherwise there is too much range. It has to have a downside.
I also understand why you want to hide the blood stains, or the grunts. But for the same reason it has to be fair, I'd be against this.
The blood will disappear soon anyway. I don't know how many times you've tracked a bleeding survivor but the puddles vanish pretty quickly.
You idea only works if the killer is far away (otherwise what's the point) so you don't really care about that blood.
One additional reason it will probably never happen is that survivors are supposed to heal themselves while waiting on the ground. So the amount you still need to heal when you reach him should be relatively small if not instant. (And after that you can both move.)
The idea is interesting but I have trouble seeing practical use cases, both in my killer and survivor experience.
Survivor: I would move myself and/or heal somewhat before you reach me. I'm also usually on recovery duty. I use "Bite the bullet" which save our collective backside many times as the killer was tracking sound (as any good killer will). So I would not move the body much, I would just hide in plain sight right there.
Killer: I would love the time wasted moving the survivor for more than a couple of meters because that's more time with survivors not being on gens.
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@alpha5 said:
There are. It's just you are four times more likely to hear what survivors want killers (not) to do than the other way around. Also the killer can actually punish whatever they dislike instead of having to wait for post-game chat to complain. According to some killers Boil Over and Flashy plays get you tunneled out immediately. Besides, what can survivors really do that prevents a killer from playing the game?
Here are a few rules:
- Do the gen in front of my face instead of running for your life and suffer the consequences.
- Bring a map offering and prepare to have the less fun you can possibly imagine out of a game.
- Break my first hook attempt and it's four-slug-city for the team.
- Playing a gens-before-friends game will not work as well as you hope.
- Play against your team and you'll be the first one to die. Maybe the only one, just because.
I almost always punish these and I almost always get salt in the following chat. It's kind of the cherry on top.
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As killer I often play casually. The less competitive the opponents, the more casual I get. (I'm a proper monster against a good team though.)
Sometimes I start a bit strong (usually after a difficult match) and make it easier once I realize the survivors are overwhelmed. Survivors understand the change in pacing and I get offerings dropped before the exit gates for my trouble.
But on one match, additionally to the four items dropped, I got that survivor who went to a chest and drop a fifth item.
That was too cute.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I think we are well past time for a base kit answer to slugging. It's pretty insane that this type of game play is tolerated.
That'd be the worst possible way to "fix" the problem.
I don't think there would be any option left to adapt after this. We could be faced again with a situation where killer are leaving (for real, not just ranting).
Then what would inevitably come is a massive nerf for survivors, with all the consequences.
All in all it'd be bad.
Better fix the problem at the source: make hooking viable (part of the problem) and/or slow down the gens (part of the problem).
The suggestion of making games about hooks may be the solution. (Like already said in this thread.)
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@joel84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823323#Comment_3823323
a nurse never has problems with WoO. Shes the best Killer ingame
"Main" only means shes my first. I play other killers too. All except Skull Merchant, Vecna and Dracula.
I've got more than 20k hatchets throws with Huntress, and she's not exactly easy against good loopers. I did the event with her, Doctor, Hag, Wraith, Billy, Blight, …
I had a bloody long chase with Doctor against a p100 survivor who gave me all the trouble in the world (current hitbox automiss bug helped him twice). Still got him in the end.
It doesn't change anything about WOO.
And if you think Nurse is easy, then by all means play her. See how far you'll go. She has counters and the players you end up versing know them all. She's great but it's not all peaches and roses.
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It's an idea …
Slugged survivors can already move themselves though.
It should also be slower than the normal walk speed otherwise it may be too much of an advantage. Maybe something in between.
And the death timer should continue because else what prevents someone from dragging a survivor "forever"? (For any reason, and I can already imagine a few.)
I see no reason not to keep the blood stains. They don't stay for long anyway.
What I find interesting about this idea is being able to quickly move being a nearby rock to avoid a Huntress snipe. Using this for stealth seems a bit too much. (Not that I believe it'll ever be implemented as the animation only could be expensive.)
The "Unknown" thing appears everywhere in the forum. I've posted a question about it but no moderator came to give an answer. It's probably best to ignore it.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823300#Comment_3823300
You had me until the last sentence. Before deciding [waves hands in the general direction of this forum and a large % of the player base's attitude] wasn't worth it and uninstalling probably for good I got ~100 3+k streak on Wraith only going for hooks and trying to 12 hook as often as possible. It's still technically going, come to mention it. Hooking is definitely still decently strong. If anything, I would have come to the conclusion "slugging shouldn't be this strong"
your argument is based on two things:
- the skill gap between you and average person that reached soft MMR cap (you kept improving, but you will still be matched with people between soft and hard MMR cap no matter what, and amount of people closer to soft MMR cap is much bigger)
- not analyzing how your opponents play and what mistakes they make (and average pub survivors makes awfully lot of mistakes due to low macro knowledge) and then rushing to making a "black and white" conclusion that…hooking is still very strong.
I managed to get winstreaks with Agi only in my loadout as Oni. Does it mean killers are so strong that you can play them perkless and win? No, it means that MMR system is extremely flawed, because when you first reach soft MMR cap, you will be matched with people around 1600 MMR score, but at the same time if you keep improving yourself and increase your MMR score, you will still be matched with people around 1600 MMR score.
That's not balance related, that's skill gap related.
MMR is a complex thing. It's flawed but I sometimes wonder if it's not flawed on purpose.
Getting matches where you sweat all the time is bound to give people a burnout.
It appears, and was suggested, the current match making alternates hard, mid and easy matches.
But an easy match for someone is an hard match for his opponent.
I'm almost convinced that alternating difficulty thing is true BTW. I'm amazed at how sometimes I crush a difficult team of survivors, bracing for the next match, only to get care-bears who get 8-hooked at 5 gens. Then I let them go because I can't possibly kill babies* and my next match is back to sweat lane.
*) Especially because amazingly they didn't give up.
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That's bad. I'm amazed at how lame some people can be.
Please fill a bug report about it. Read the pinned post at the top and be very precise in your explanation.
It needs to be fixed before it spreads.
edit: nevermind, it's already there and under review.
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@joel84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823291#Comment_3823291
leave it alone ? excuse me but,
I respect your opinion, no problem, but whether you like it or not, WoO is used to drag out chases unnecessarily and therefore hurts... and SoloQ is just used as an excuse for many things. That's my opinion, don't be mad.
Mad? Why?
I'm trying to understand the issue.
used to drag out chases unnecessarily
I'm pretty sure the survivor keeping being alive finds it necessary.
I understand it can be frustrating for the killer but it's only an indication of key points. It doesn't change the mind games available to both parties. (And please don't imagine for one second I'm pro-survivor. I play both roles.)
used as an excuse for many things
Like what? What could possibly require any kind of excuse? Especially for soloQ that needs all the help it can get?
If a perk allows a survivor to suck less without being overpowered (it only helps to route) it's all good.
The impression I get, without being sure, is that you think it makes survivors stronger loopers than they would be without the perk *. And you would be right. However it's not the "wrong kind" of stronger so it's not enough to warrant a nerf.
It's not broken like OoO, Dead Hard, DS, Made for This and so many other perks have been in the past.
*) Yes I've read all about the memorisation argument. On the killer side I'm a Nurse main. I know all maps in 3D literally with my eyes closed. That's a must for a Nurse. I don't believe it is so for anybody else.
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I'm not against the idea … but …
Right now it's all "fun and games" because it's new.
However it may be very strong in a chase, especially against an SWF that can spam it and guarantee losing a chase.
How strong is it at the exit gates?
It needs some careful analysis.
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@Autharia said:
Was just in a game VS an unknown. first random on my team gets hooked I saved then. They then run to killer to get second hook and hookcides. The other 2 also do the same and killer moris and says "I killed you cause you didn't help your team." I was the highest score in the round that lasted 2 minutes and 45 seconds at 16k, killer had 11k points.
On a positive note, the intent was good. He only had a terrible read of the match.
I'd have bled out the first one giving up. Rarely, if raised and slugged many times, it cures them and they start playing normally.
Sometimes I care more about punishing that one than winning a meaningless match. (Probably because I despise this behavior so much when I get one on my team of randoms.)
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How about none? (I play casually but if someone has a "strong build", it makes me feel very competitive.)
edit: Although, before its nerf OoO on Midwich against an M1 non-stealth killer was simply disgusting.
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@Akumakaji said:
Slugging for the bleedout is like a sudden "Oh no!!!" moment. Everyone is sitting on their gens and letting them pop, besides that one survivor that desperately tries to pick up their mate. Eventually everyone notices that 1/2 of the bleedout timer are up and they come rushing and poking at you and you can take potshots at this or that one, sometimes they might pick the slug up, but without certain perks you send them down immediately and maybe get a second down. This is where things get extremely dangerous, because when you can get the third one, the game is effectively over, so you can now more deliverately hunt down the others.
By this time the first slug is probably dying, reliving the killer of a big pressure and basically handing them the game. One of the two remaining survivors might even give up at this point, so that hunting down the last one becomes just a small task of whittling down ressources and maybe defending the general area with the slugs.
This is how a typical slug-for-bleedout match could play out, I experienced this a couple of times during my bleedout test and yeah, its pretty effective, because you only have to deal with UB once per survivor max. Its not fun, but its more effective then going for hooks and/or tunneling. And THATS the problem. Hooking shouldn't be this weak.
Your last sentence is basically what I'm wary of.
BHVR, if they want to "fix" this has two options.
- Make hooks stronger.
- Remove yet another option from the killer's hands.
Choosing the latter would be a very bad move and I'm not convinced they won't go for it.
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Instead of DC, skipping the cinematic would be best.
But as mentioned by @TragicSolitude, are you sure you want to take the risk adding an additional point of failure in the game?
It's only 13 seconds. It's not slower than the usual time it takes to get hooked, as noted by @Brimp. It's also way faster than getting hatch.
@Akumakaji said:
It would be so nice if every killer would get one or two alternative moris, so that we would get some variety.
Maybe this would also be a fun opportunity to take a page out of the mortal combat book and introduce something like Friendship moves, maybe reskinned as "Sudden Mercy", where the killer shows some mercy in the last second and tosses the survivor down the hatch that spawns right next to them.
A little while ago, someone has suggested the recent mori change could be a precursor selling new moris in the shop.
That'd be something I may spend some money on. It'd be way better than cosmetics IMHO.
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WOO is not a problem at all.
It helps beginners, sure. So what?
I know for a fact one of the best survivor players out there (zubatlel, won the US vs EU 1vs1) is using it.
That's the whole spectrum of survivors right there.
I'm not using it myself (I still have the genetics of a Blendette) and I don't have any issue with it from the killer's side.
Leave it alone.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823275#Comment_3823275
It's like if the MMR was grouping the absolute worst players to try to give them a chance to have a win without caring one bit for the normal survivors they'll drag down with them.
I sometimes worry this is what's happening. It certainly feels like it some days.
The MMR should separate players who give up or sabotage from the ones who fight to the end.
Absolutely.
I wish the queue system were smarter. Put like playstyle with like. The ones who are team players put with other team players. Lone wolves put with lone wolves. And trolls put with trolls. Having everyone grouped into one queue doesn't make the game unpredictable or fun; it's misery roulette.
BHVR should make it clear it's a team game for survivors and that the win is 3 or more people out, whoever gets out.
Someone should even be more rewarded for a hook exchange that leads to a save than saving oneself.
I did a whole long post elsewhere that went into how the game punishes altruism. Die doing something heroic, you lose out on the escape points and your MMR goes down and the game only says "SACRIFICED" like you didn't just selflessly rescue your teammate. Escape being so heavily rewarded means dying is hugely punished, which means risk (especially risk that benefits someone else and not yourself) is often considered not worth it.
I really wish BHVR would think the same.
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@Zakon05 said:
There's been some talk among dbd content creators that slugging is stronger than hooking, due to the number of anti-tunnel perks which can be used aggressively against killers who weren't really going for a tunnel. And of course, if you did intend to tunnel, then the perks do their job and make it harder.
The thought process is that slugging has fewer counters and most survivors don't run them, which leads to easier, less stressful and more consistent results for killer.
There was a big experiment over it which got a specialist killer main for every killer in the game involved, and the results were released today.
The video claims to be unbiased and just presenting numbers, but they put their thumb on the scales in one important regard: they're only counting 4ks. A lot of people believe the killer wins the match at 3 kills, due to hatch being RNG.
Basically the overall results across all killers was that like 85% of matches resulted in a 4k if the killer never hooked anyone, while going for hooks was "only" 75%.
But from the same data, in the hook games, around 15% of the matches were a 3k, meaning the 4th got hatch or snuck open the gate, which means that the hooking games had a roughly 90% winrate, compared to the 3% of slugging matches which were a 3k. It also doesn't really account for survivors not expecting this playstyle and thus anti-slugging perks being rare.
And the laughable thing was the intro talking about how rough killers have had it with so many anti-tunnel measures now in the game, immediately followed by talking about a 75% 4k rate in a normal match with hooks.
This experiment has taken experts for each killer. I know a few of them.
A 75% win rate for players close to the 10k against randoms is pretty low.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822468#Comment_3822468
This shift in playstyle was bound to happen, but it’s really not the end of the world. BHVR just needs to roll out a better matchmaking system that pairs up players who actually try with others doing the same. Solo Q isn’t bad when you’ve got a team that knows what they’re doing and doesn’t throw in the towel at the first little inconvenience.
and
@Gplays2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822476#Comment_3822476
THIS. Solo Queue is very bearable with people who know what they are doing…it is the terrible teammates that you are paired with that ruin the game and not the killer they face most of the time at least.
It appears a lot of players agree. The single biggest problem is the bad teammates.
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822469#Comment_3822469
thats cuz the event is ass for survivor, I really dislike being downed from range by the haunt ghost (they really should of made it deep wounds), smoke bombs are kinda fun but dont help much
The ghost is easier to dodge than a hatchet and hatchets are pretty easy to dodge. Besides there is a long delay between two and then the killer has to reload.
IMHO smoke bombs help a lot, unless the survivor has no plan, runs back to the killer or stands in there without moving.
(and in case you have missed the point: there is no lack of survivors playing the event)
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@TheSubstitute said:
The issue with attempting to use ancedotes as evidence is that there will be someone with the exact opposite experience. I've seen two people claim Survivor takes a long time for queues and that's exactly opposite of my experience. Just slightly under two months ago I linked to over 100 recent survivor games (I'll relink to the original post if you want to look at queue times) and not a single queue was long. In contrast, my Killer queues take longer but I wouldn't describe them the majority of them as long either.
I don't feel like referring to queue times as ancedotes proves or disproves anything. Subjectively, I can say I feel solo Survivor is at its least enjoyable point in three years but objectively using queue times proves nothing in and of itself.
I know all about anecdotal evidence.
I'm an average survivor. I don't stand on any of the extremes. (> 3.5k hours player who plays casually)
People who play during the day, say early afternoon, will get a different experience and it makes perfect sense.
I've got a job. I play during the evening. That's when a majority of players are available (not just children out of school and the unemployed). If there really was an exodus, that time-frame would be affected. It's not.
Another hint is that the DBD player base on steam is relatively stable. It's not the whole the player base but it's representative.
There again, if there was a survivor exodus stable numbers would mean survivors have been replaced by killers an killer queues would be long (e.g. 2vs8). We can plainly see it's not the case, ergo, no exodus.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822476#Comment_3822476
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823119#Comment_3823119
You are both right. I never gave it much thought, but most of my bad survivor matches had a direct link to bad teammates - or antimates, as we call them.
This is especially noticable in a duo-SWF, where you can always count on your buddy to have your back, but the other two are absolute coin tosses so often turn up blank.
I talked about this in some other thread, but I had a recent game where Corrupt Intervention blocked all the main hall gens in RPD and me and my mate got chased all over the east side and tried to pressure gens there, while the killer was around and pingponging between us, while the other two survivors took their merry time to chill out next to a blocked gen, either till the 2min were up or one of us went down.
And when we both got eventually hooked, they took their merry time to peel away from their respective gens, leading to a cosy 4K at 4 gens.
That's absolute truth.
I almost never have a problem with the killer I'm versing. My random teammates are almost always what's wrong.
Even when I manage to drag one of two from an old team with me, the randoms will almost always be the 5th killer perk.
It's also pretty evident when I play killer. The ones playing well and together vs the dead weight who are killing their team.
I'm not even counting the ones who give up or take an early exit on first hook.
And there is something new that I've noticed (as killer) during this event: survivors hiding all game in the void while the others are trying to play a 3vs1. It's pretty obvious given the icon next to their name.
It's like if the MMR was grouping the absolute worst players to try to give them a chance to have a win without caring one bit for the normal survivors they'll drag down with them.
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822469#Comment_3822469
I don’t think it’s an exodus but I do believe that there aren’t as many people queueing for survivor as there were 2-4 years ago.
The original post is being sarcastic. A long queue means there are too many players. A short queue means there aren't enough players. If the survivor queue is so long that drsoontm gives up and plays killer instead, there isn't an exodus of survivors (at least in drsoontm's MMR/region).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823121#Comment_3823121
most of my bad survivor matches had a direct link to bad teammates
I have been championing this sentiment for so long. My worst matches are due to teammates. MMR and the way this game rewards survivors in general have culminated in horrible experiences in solo queue.
It's understood that when killers play to win they're trying to kill me. When survivors play to win by trying to kill me, the game becomes miserable. I wish DbD rewarded better MMR and more Bloodpoints for survivors participating instead of survivors escaping. The emphasis on escape causes a lot of harm.
You got it right.
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823121#Comment_3823121
Yeah, absolutely. Awful decision making of teammates turned so many easy winnable matches into horrible lose. Even in 3 man SWF 1 survivor throwing the match can cost you a game, even if all 3 of you are doing everything right.
Had a match against Legion, where we with friend ran in different direction as soon as L was in Frenzy. Guess what random did? Yeah, mended himself in his TR instantly. He had 1500 hours btw. Guess who had a free down thanks to this buddy? Yeah. That's why "survivors are not team" is statement which can be said only by a person who doesn't understand this game even on beginner level.
Had a very tight game on Dredge, they had 3 gens done, I had 5 hooks (at least 1 stage on everyone). 2 people on a hook, I started a chase with 3rd one. When I downed 3rd person (it was average 30-40 seconds chase), was about to pick up her, and I see gen poped in another side of the map, where were no hooked survivors. Then I see Sable (yeah, such a surprise) run into me and gave up. So instead of unhook teammates, she just sitted on a gen in another part of the map for almost a minute. 4 people (me and 3 survivors) tried they best to win a match just to see how one Sable decided to delete they effort in 60 seconds. It could be a solid draw, maybe even 3 man out, if I would make some mistakes, but nah.
And then people like these come here and ask about 60% kill rate. I wonder how it's not 80% with majority of survivors playing like this.I guess we all have horror stories about such teammates.
If I'm the killer, I make sure these don't live. Thanks to the anti-face-camp mechanic, I can even save the hooked ones now. (By sticking to the hook and letting them go.)
The MMR should separate players who give up or sabotage from the ones who fight to the end.
When you read the forum, you can sometimes guess who's who, when they don't straight up boast about giving up.
BHVR should make it clear it's a team game for survivors and that the win is 3 or more people out, whoever gets out.
Someone should even be more rewarded for a hook exchange that leads to a save than saving oneself.
(And some changes should probably be made for killers wins too but that's a different subject.)
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823038#Comment_3823038
I see, I only do it because of how common Pain Resonance, Surge, and Pop are in my games.
If I can get off the generator, take a hit, and pop the gen I will do that. I don't get mad about it because it is a game at the end of the day and I just don't spread toxicity to other people over something as silly as that.
The longer that survivors are in a game, the more stronger killer gets as the game progresses. That's why I actively choose to pop a gen in the way that I do to alleviate pressure in the game, especially if it's a three gen that needs to be done.
I suppose you can say you're not generalizing, but when you say survivors are crying in end game chat because of their misplays... Not all survivors react that way. Even when I do a misplay, I acknowledge it, laugh, and move on — like I said it's a video game, not like we're playing Dead by Daylight competitively for money.
I've yet to see a survivor laughing it off. That'd be nice. I'm not entirely sure you understand what "the killer taking full advantage of the situation" entails though. If you do, and take that treatment in a lighthearted way, good for you.
It is true killers are getting stronger over time, but only if survivors spend resources while being chased. If instead they go down without a chase worth mentioning, resources are kept but it's not much of an advantage IMHO.
The 3-gen could be a reasonable exception if one is in a hurry. But the anti-3gen mechanic is making sure patient survivors can focus the gens hyenas-style and the killer will hardly be able to do anything. At the very least it could guarantee an escape for the other survivors.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822974#Comment_3822974
What do you mean by staying on gens for too long? Like, trying to pop it in your face or what do you mean?
If you're saying that then yes, I will definitely pop it in the killer's face especially if gens need to be done.
I don't play on PC, so I don't really share the sentiment of that or message people unless I'm directly messaged first. It's best not to generalize people as I don't generalize killer players either. 😊
I'm not generalizing. I specified "from my experience".
Very few survivors are crazy enough to trade a gen for their life. Among the ones who do, the ones who express their feeling in the chat are systematically salty about the consequences. (Implicitly, there are also some who don't communicate at all.)
Survivors who leave early stand a much better chance. The killer wastes much more time to get to them. During that time another survivor can finish the gen freely.
War of attrition 101.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822828#Comment_3822828
Yes, or they get mad when you're trying to pop a gen that's right next to them that's about to finish.
People who go on the hook who expect to be unhooked when they have 80 seconds is such a wild thing. Don't even get me started on people who go on their first hook and try to kill themselves either due to map, killer, survivors not on gens, going down first/second — solo-queue gets horrible when these people play and they expect you to just drop what you're doing to go and get them off the hook instead of alleviating pressure by completing gens.
10 seconds added to the hook timer was introduced due to gens taking longer to complete (80 seconds in the past) compared to the 90 seconds now.
Funny. In my experience it's the survivors who stay on gens for too long to make it pop who cry their salty tears in the end game chat.
Me? I laugh. Maybe someday they'll learn that making themselves vulnerable may not be the best choice given the killer may decide to take full advantage of the situation.
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@PreorderBonus said:
according to the devs bleedouts happen in less than 1% of matches and partial bleedouts in around 10%. You tell me if its meta or not
Bleedouts aren't "slugging". When a "normal" killer slugs he follows-up by hooking everyone.
@Ziemniaczana said:
Seeing some of you saying Slugging is the new meta. Why is that?
It's not exactly the META. It's not easy to pull-off. You need survivors way less experienced than the killer, or a "bully" squad to do it.
Four slugs happen maybe 1/20 to 1/10 of my matches. They always happen because the survivors let me do it (they royally f-up)
That's with my main. I can hardly pull it off with killers I'm less proficient with. (Although I did it yesterday, but it was a "bully" squad.)
Slugging helps slowing down survivors more than hooking them (thanks for making hook stages longer, survivors can ignore them way more)
If regression sucks and hooking doesn't help that much, there is only one remaining option to pace the game down and it's slugging.
So I'll often keep a slug, sometimes two, depending on the situation. If survivors ignore a slug for too long, the slug dies. Or worse: I find them and I get them down before they raise their teammate back up.
TL/RD: it's the one remaining tool to slow down survivors and apply pressure but its not "META". Not until someone finds the perfect combo.
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The unofficial stats pages for Steam profiles is way better.
Check dbdstats.com.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822427#Comment_3822427
I dodged every Mori offering during the last anniversary event. Not ashamed either.
I'm not blaming you but I don't understand.
Mori can only happen instead of a death hook and usually waste more time for the killer.
That looks like an advantage more than anything.
@Akumakaji said:
And survivors could also start not using that many offerings to stack the game artificially in their favor. Statistically there are many more survivor sided maps then killer sided ones, and I will take on any Pale Rose or Eiry or The Game that RNG throws at me … but if offerings are involved, this is an open declaration of war and I play as unfun and tunnely and brutal and unforgiven as I can muster.
Most often survivors are shocked and call me names for doing that … but they feel no remorse for using offerings on the next killer, to custombuild their loadouts for the occasion and stack it again in their favor.
Map offerings are one of the absolute WORST consumables the game has to offer, and I am 100% in camp "map offerings should ban its realm from the pool of available maps, not send you there automatically". Yeah, it would screw the fun Scratched Mirror Myers who need indoor maps to thrive, but thats the scrifices we need to make.
And this "hur dur, I just wanted to see something different, after RNG send me to the same map 3 times today" is such a weak excuse … especially if its followed by a thinlyveiled lie like "and I had no idea that The Game/Badam Preschool/The Eiry/Hawkings was survivor sided, I just like the visuals of that map". Yeah buddy, sure…
I couldn't have said it better.
I do the same, with one exception: "MacMillan" offerings are "OK" in my book.
Any other map offering will turn as a very bad game for the survivors.
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@Caiman said:
My only problem with the event is the sweatlords. Nurses and Blights running full meta builds and slugging and tunneling for that 4K. Oh, and rage-quitters. So the usual DbD problems.
Other than that, I think it's been fun. And I love a good event tome to boost my Rift progress.
I've played several games.
A few with my main, and I got a few "sweatlords". I've wiped their teams, the others got their 8 hooks and the doors.
A few with weak killers, and even when I was obviously not caring (e.g. not even attacking because my RIFT was asking me something else), I got "sweatlords" basically playing alone while I was doing what I needed with the one cool survivor.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I'm the same way and I'm having a blast
Although maybe I just like Throwing Smoke bombs…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qiFjN3D8TU&ab_channel=NickG
Smoke bombs are great.
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I've not recommended the game since 2020.
Friends? All my friends have left the game long ago.
Discord? All my teammates have left the game.
I'm basically the last one still playing.
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It's fun.
It's a change.
Most players are goofing around.
But if you don't like survivors unless the event gives you a massive advantage like last year, then by all means play killer.